Does whoever is in charge of NWO really want to push the players to the point, where they draw the conclusion, that it is better to not spend any more money, since anything can change to the disfavor of the player from one update to another?
Because after all, that would be the logical conclusion here. And no, i'm not joking.
At this point it is not about the Trade Bars Store anymore, it is about trust. When we players can't trust whoever is in charge of NWO anymore, when we have to worry about every future update, why should we continue to spend money here?
7.1 When we update or “patch” any of our Games, we may utilize a patch routine to verify whether the most recent version of the client software is installed on your computer. If not, the most recent version may automatically be uploaded to your computer, and you hereby consent to, and waive any further notice of, such upload."
"26. Disciplinary Action / Account & Service Termination
26.1 FOR ANY REASON WE MAY SUSPEND, TERMINATE, MODIFY, BLOCK ACCESS TO OR DELETE THE SERVICE OR ANY ACCOUNT OR PART THEREOF, BY GIVING YOU NOTICE OF SUCH WITHIN THE TIME PERIOD SPECIFIED WHEN YOU CREATED AN ACCOUNT OR JOINED A SERVICE, OR IF NO SUCH TIME PERIOD WAS SPECIFIED, THEN WITHIN THIRTY (30) DAYS OF THE DATE SUCH NOTICE IS PROVIDED TO YOU BY EMAIL OR IS POSTED ON THE WEBSITE OR INTERACTIVE AREA BY US."
(edit: not sure if the "or part thereof" refers to the account or the service; if it's the account, this has no value) (edit 2: scrape the second quote; the intention of the change isn't "Disciplinary Action / Account & Service Termination")
This is from the Terms at the bottom of this forum. It says nothing about "no obligation to provide updates".
Seems like the changes were made to address this "problem": too many players making it to 70 and beyond and were still viable without spending enough money. If the idea was to get rid of level 70 players (and alts) who were ftp and not ready to spend real hard cash to stay in this, then mission accomplished, I would guess.
You guys see this, right? What other possible explanation is there? These guys aren't moustache-twiddling villains bent on HAMSTER you over, they're a bunch of dudes trying to manage servers with limited bandwidth and resources. If there's too many 70s draining the servers, then you gotta do something about it.
Now don't get me wrong... I am NOT in favor of what they did to the VIP players, and there is no way in HELL I am ever giving another penny to cryptic for anything ever again. But ppl saying this is fraud and talking about lawsuits is goofy. They decided to sacrifice the cheap 70s. They made a design decision. It's not like they held a meeting where conspirators in black cloaks all got together and planned out how they would lie to us all while cackling with evil glee.
How is that a valid argument when you can level a PC from 0 to almost 70 in one double XP weekend??? Part of the problem is that there is no investment in leveling your character. This game is built entirely around the Refinement mechanic, which in my opinion is the worst part of the game. It doesn't matter the level of the characters in the game.
They need to remove refinement entirely Have appropriate level enhancements drop from appropriate leveled content. Oh of you want your players to buy something make actual content. Make new dungeons make new areas to explore. Take the Heroic encounters and toss them out the window, they bore the HAMSTER out of most of us.
Don't make us pay money to enhance our gear to meet an item level to do content. Make us pay money to buy cool content, and enhance the appearance of our PC's with cosmetic gear.
How is that a valid argument when you can level a PC from 0 to almost 70 in one double XP weekend???
Yup. And then you stall at 70 until you pay up. Either way (pay money or quit) you will be supporting the company or getting out of their way. The trick for them is to convert ppl who wouldn't normally pay into ppl that WILL. Right now, they still have some content to recreate before they can say they are thinking of endgame. It's early still, but I think they are trying to jazz up the leveling process to the point that ppl will assume that endgame is more of the same. Which it might very well be by mod 12 or 13... or 20. Maybe never.
Funny how the mods wheel out nonsense to defend this. I understand it's their job to defend even the most grievous of misdeeds when perpetrated by the ones they work for (*cough* volunteer for) but seriously there is no defense for this. The statement that has been produced as evidence of misdeeds where the tarmalune rework would not negatively affect wards in the t-bar shop is VALID. Do you not understand why? Because the only reason given by cryptic is that they didn't want "confusion" by having these items in both the cash shop as well as the T-Bar store.
Guess what? When that statement was made, the items existed in both places as they always have so by stating they would not be negatively affected without a disclaimer stating that at some point in the future this might change, for whatever reason, and then selling both keys and VIP based on the implied reason that part of the value of said services were the T-bar available wards, they have fundamentally changed the value of said previously sold services without attempt at value remediation (such as was done for the xbox folks).
This is a deceitful business practice and a company that engages in such practices opens itself to whatever it's customers feel is right to retrieve said lost value as well as public shaming of said company through the FTC and the BBB as well as other entities in customer's home countries.
So zeb, ambi and the others, you can defend them if you want to but you become the sacrificial lamb the company itself is wanting you to be when you really don't need to. Don't be the face of the misdeeds. You can state facts such as the chargeback stuff and be kept blameless but don't step into the mire of defending what was done here. Speaking of that weren't there more mods until recently?
This is all about falling Zen sales. If it had been about confusion between the stores you would have removed all the items that can be found in both places. It is your game Cryptic, you are completely in the right to make the changes you want per the EULA. But don't lie about it, just tell the truth and let the player base deal with it how they will. The BS excuses just incite the rage you are seeing now.
I for one will no longer be paying for the VIP with my money. I will try to grind enough AD to buy it through transfer. I just don't see the point in paying anymore. I was willing to pay to shorten the time it took me to level my enchantments to 12 but now that the coalescent wards are gone there isn't a true need for it.
Im going to take the STO approach to the coal-wards issue, grind the ADs till i have enough then trade it for zen and buy a coal ward, wash rinse repeat.
In short i wont have to pay to level my gear just work harder for it oh and crypitc? i was going to buy several months worth the VIP just to make my job easier, you guys actually saved me money because i wont be buying VIP i see no reason to have it , since easier coal-wards was a major selling point for me.
Kirk eyes a young female romulan put on her EV suit then her head dissapears.
Kirk : My god bones...her head is gone :eek:
Mccoy : DAMNIT JIM!! im a doctor not a game developer
Granted, it was a while ago. But no news were given to suggest that that's no longer the case. Well... there were... about 12 (give or take) hours before the actual change?
Which you're taking out of context as it was in direct response to the assumptions that the prior announcement meant they were being removed or increased in price. Again, that statement was clearly a response to a prior article and forum discussion, taking it out of context as an argument against changes almost 6 months later is just wrong. Even if one wanted to try and use such as an arguement, no where does it say "ever" and it clearly states that it is in relation to a prior announcement.
LOL, you are obfuscating BIG TIME.
yetweallfalldown clearly stated "Coalescent Wards WILL NOT be leaving the stores and pricing WILL NOT increase."
That right there is a PROMISE! It doesn't matter if it was a response to question, it doesn't matter if it was 6 months ago. That is an EMPHATIC statement that they are here too stay.
I am sick and tierd of this carp, every few months the Marketing Department unilaterally decides to screw with us players and it is NEVER for our benefit.
I have spent a lot of money on this game because I LOVE this game. But like any relationship where I am being treated like I must, for my health. Step away...
PLEASE STOP with the dirty underhanded tricks, we are not idiots! We know why these things are done because you arent the first game company to do them...
grind the ADs till i have enough then trade it for zen and buy a coal ward
I think that's the most puzzling part of trying to fix the economy: ZAX has to exist, or most of the reason to buy Zen disappears. But the gold-sellers earn so much more AD than any normal player, they are the only ones who can buy things like coalescent wards. Then they turn around an sell them for 10% of the official price.
I know Cryptic's anti-gold-seller strategy is to remove the exploitable interfaces, rather than remove the gold-sellers...but when the bots are just running normal content and selling normal items---making their AD using massive numbers of accounts, rather than high-return exploits, how can Cryptic's strategy possibly work? In this case the strategy reduces to "remove all value from running any content."
The bots will happily run boring content for minimal rewards---and will do it 24/7/365. We, the human players, will find it tedious and boring, and will eventually decide to abandon our several-years investment in our characters. I know I'm rapidly burning through my ability to perceive value in my character. Hope mod-9 can change this.
Both of these positions have both merit and issues. Implying that the other author is being foolish looks ridiculous to the rest of us reading with more objectivity. For example, here's how I see it:
Pro-zebular: the direct quote was with respect to the tradebar-rework, asked during its planning phase; it was accurate for the intended change---the wards remained, and prices were in fact lowered. Pro-nimandiir: the intent of the question being answered was to determine the future availability of wards. Con-zebular: the devs have said that removing the wards was caused by lowering of prices during the rework--hence it is directly related to the discussion 6 months ago. Con-nimandiir: it is likely that the devs did not intend the price change to tank their economy, and hence their revenue, so while the removal is their fault, and is directly related to the cited quotation, it was believably an 'unanticipated consequence' rather than a planned contrivance.
Believe me, when revenue falls, the corporate guys will take decisions out of your hands fast. I'm here waiting to see what the response will be when half of the players choose not to renew their VIP.
Both of these positions have both merit and issues. Implying that the other author is being foolish looks ridiculous to the rest of us reading with more objectivity. For example, here's how I see it:
Pro-zebular: the direct quote was with respect to the tradebar-rework, asked during its planning phase; it was accurate for the intended change---the wards remained, and prices were in fact lowered. Pro-nimandiir: the intent of the question being answered was to determine the future availability of wards. Con-zebular: the devs have said that removing the wards was caused by lowering of prices during the rework--hence it is directly related to the discussion 6 months ago. Con-nimandiir: it is likely that the devs did not intend the price change to tank their economy, and hence their revenue, so while the removal is their fault, and is directly related to the cited quotation, it was believably an 'unanticipated consequence' rather than a planned contrivance.
Believe me, when revenue falls, the corporate guys will take decisions out of your hands fast. I'm here waiting to see what the response will be when half of the players choose not to renew their VIP.
Well said, I hadn't thought of it like that.
I'm with you, I think they are fast going to realize how big of a mistake this is. Every one of my guild members are not pleased (understatment) and the channel we are a part of is in downright flames.
I'm gonna grab my popcorn and see how this plays out...
Edit: As an aside, It seems I may actually save some money for a while
Mine's about 50/50. The 50% who don't care either 1. farm enough that VIP is profitable even without tradebars---they make enough AD to buy their VIP every mongth, and have enough left over to get coalescent wards without spending money; or 2. have spent hundreds of real dollars upgrading the SH, so $10 for a coal ward is no big deal.
The people who are (and should be) angriest are the causal players who used money to buy VIP as a feasible path to upgrade equipment.
Per the numerous posts on the ToS, they had no real guarantees about the availability of wards, but in the same vein, Microsoft's EULA disclaims all liability if their OS deletes all of a user's files...but if they periodically chose to do it to 'avoid confusion', users would still be pissed.
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zebularMember, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 15,270Community Moderator
Funny how the mods wheel out nonsense to defend this. I understand it's their job to defend even the most grievous of misdeeds when perpetrated by the ones they work for (*cough* volunteer for) but seriously there is no defense for this. The statement that has been produced as evidence of misdeeds where the tarmalune rework would not negatively affect wards in the t-bar shop is VALID. Do you not understand why? Because the only reason given by cryptic is that they didn't want "confusion" by having these items in both the cash shop as well as the T-Bar store.
Guess what? When that statement was made, the items existed in both places as they always have so by stating they would not be negatively affected without a disclaimer stating that at some point in the future this might change, for whatever reason, and then selling both keys and VIP based on the implied reason that part of the value of said services were the T-bar available wards, they have fundamentally changed the value of said previously sold services without attempt at value remediation (such as was done for the xbox folks).
This is a deceitful business practice and a company that engages in such practices opens itself to whatever it's customers feel is right to retrieve said lost value as well as public shaming of said company through the FTC and the BBB as well as other entities in customer's home countries.
So zeb, ambi and the others, you can defend them if you want to but you become the sacrificial lamb the company itself is wanting you to be when you really don't need to. Don't be the face of the misdeeds. You can state facts such as the chargeback stuff and be kept blameless but don't step into the mire of defending what was done here. Speaking of that weren't there more mods until recently?
I'm not defending them, I'm just showing how there was never a permanent statement of how something will be and per the EULA of the game itself, there can never be such, as everything is subject to change at any given time without notice. Nothing can ever be a promise of change or no change there-of in this MMO or any MMO, as all MMO's have the same type of underwriting clause. It is folly to even assume something can never or will never change in an MMO. As well, I was also simply pointing out the fallacy of using a 6-month old quote as proof of wrong-doing when said quote pertained to a development plan from 6 months ago and was a direct response to player questions on a specific article the day prior to that statement.
If you think I am defending the removal of wards from the Trade Bar Store, you are wrong and must have missed my post quoted below where I outright said that I don't agree with the change and find it silly. All I am defending is against false accusations, which I'd do for anyone. To be perfectly clear, I do not agree that Wards should not be available in the Trade Bar Store. Never-the-less, it has happened and I shall accept it for it doesn't really impact me. I don't open Locked Boxes for Trade Bars, they're just bonus things to buy more items.
Granted, it was a while ago. But no news were given to suggest that that's no longer the case. Well... there were... about 12 (give or take) hours before the actual change?
Which you're taking out of context as it was in direct response to the assumptions that the prior announcement meant they were being removed or increased in price. Again, that statement was clearly a response to a prior article and forum discussion, taking it out of context as an argument against changes almost 6 months later is just wrong. Even if one wanted to try and use such as an arguement, no where does it say "ever" and it clearly states that it is in relation to a prior announcement.
the question was : "Are you goin to be remove or put a different price on coal wards from the tradebar store with the store being reworked?" because i am pretty sure i asked this, and that statement it was regarding my question , or it was just a statement, one that didnt say "this message will selfdestruct months later"
Context again: they weren't removed in the tradebar store rework. They were removed some 6 months later in an unrelated change. Regardless of how I feel about them being removed, I feel it is quite silly to use some 1/2 year old statement on a different subject, taking it out of context to fuel some argument against them being removed recently. I feel that is just as silly as them being removed.
I rarely spent trade bars on wards anyway and considering I desired VIP (at R12 now) for all the perks combined, yes I do still feel it is worth it. Especially when just one of the Perks allows me to open one locked box of my choice (I have hundreds/thousands of each type stored) for free per day and get not only tradebars but chances to win all sorts of other goodies, yeah... still worth it. I still have more Coal Wards stored in my bank than I need, getting the majority of them from Wondrous Boxes during invocation.
getting the majority of them from Wondrous Boxes during invocation.
@zebular: What is a Wondrous Box? I've been playing since Mod1 and I've never heard of such a thing. (I've also only ever gotten 2 coal wards Invoking near-daily in that period with 2 characters.)
Something tells me that it was earlier. Like getting the greater marks in dread ring...I was lucky enough to save up about 60 of each so I didn't care when they removed them. I think this speaks to a general strategy: when you see something good, farm the hell out of it---it's not going to last.
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zebularMember, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 15,270Community Moderator
getting the majority of them from Wondrous Boxes during invocation.
@zebular: What is a Wondrous Box? I've been playing since Mod1 and I've never heard of such a thing. (I've also only ever gotten 2 coal wards Invoking near-daily in that period with 2 characters.)
Something tells me that it was earlier. Like getting the greater marks in dread ring...I was lucky enough to save up about 60 of each so I didn't care when they removed them. I think this speaks to a general strategy: when you see something good, farm the hell out of it---it's not going to last.
The Coffers of Wondrous (insert type here) that you buy with 11 celestial coins. I buy the first one with the least amount of varying rewards, which from my experience with my many characters, seems to be the one that gives me the most Coalescent Wards. Your first invocation of the day rewards 1 Ardent Coin and 1 Celestial Coin. The last invocation any given character can do each day is the one that awards the 2nd Celestial Coin. So, if you invoke fully on a character each day, that means you'll get 11 Celestial Coins every 5.5 days meaning that each character can claim a Coffer of Wondrous (insert type here) every 5.5 days if you invoke fully on them.
getting the majority of them from Wondrous Boxes during invocation.
@zebular: What is a Wondrous Box? I've been playing since Mod1 and I've never heard of such a thing. (I've also only ever gotten 2 coal wards Invoking near-daily in that period with 2 characters.)
Something tells me that it was earlier. Like getting the greater marks in dread ring...I was lucky enough to save up about 60 of each so I didn't care when they removed them. I think this speaks to a general strategy: when you see something good, farm the hell out of it---it's not going to last.
Odds certainly were better but as of the last I played the game, around Mod 8 release, the last invoke box you could take did have a very small chance of giving a coal ward. Ima go out on a limb and say that very minor chance is quite a bit less now in a ninja nerf to support their new marketing strategy. No free coals = all the casuals handing over their CC for ridiculous prices in cash shop.
If they had just done a rework of the zen store prices at the same time as ganking the wards from t-bar this would have been a non issue. I think most ppl would agree that a couple of bucks each (or relative value in AD) for the wards would have been more acceptable. 10 bucks each is tantamount to financial HAMSTER which is why they have likely sold next to none of them in the cash shop. Its always give and take. Give first is usually best, not later as a panic move when you see the torches and pitchforks from the Keep's ramparts. Mr Shicoff could never be considered a financially inclined person, so I really wonder how he keeps being allowed to make these decisions.
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zebularMember, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 15,270Community Moderator
getting the majority of them from Wondrous Boxes during invocation.
@zebular: What is a Wondrous Box? I've been playing since Mod1 and I've never heard of such a thing. (I've also only ever gotten 2 coal wards Invoking near-daily in that period with 2 characters.)
Something tells me that it was earlier. Like getting the greater marks in dread ring...I was lucky enough to save up about 60 of each so I didn't care when they removed them. I think this speaks to a general strategy: when you see something good, farm the hell out of it---it's not going to last.
Odds certainly were better but as of the last I played the game, around Mod 8 release, the last invoke box you could take did have a very small chance of giving a coal ward.
Ima go out on a limb and say that very minor chance is quite a bit less now in a ninja nerf to support their new marketing strategy. No free coals = all the casuals handing over their CC for ridiculous prices in cash shop.
If they had just done a rework of the zen store prices at the same time as ganking the wards from t-bar this would have been a non issue. I think most ppl would agree that a couple of bucks each (or relative value in AD) for the wards would have been more acceptable. 10 bucks each is tantamount to financial HAMSTER which is why they have likely sold next to none of them in the cash shop. Its always give and take. Give first is usually best, not later as a panic move when you see the torches and pitchforks from the Keep's ramparts. Mr Shicoff could never be considered a financially inclined person, so I really wonder how he keeps being allowed to make these decisions.
All three Coffers of Wondrous (insert type here) have a chance to award Coalescent Wards. I've gotten Coalescent Wards from each of them. As I said above, it feels to me that I get more from the first of the three you can buy.
Reading a few posts on the Coal/Pres removal throughout the forum I had an epiphany...
I was turning my head into a pulp squeezing brain matter to understand why there are so many 2xRP events lately (maybe even twice a month) when a few mods (not too far) back you'd see one in every 2-3 months.
Then it occurred to me...
Of Course...
They've been helping speed up the refinement process, preparing to starve people of reagents and lead them to the ZEN store.
So what do we have post ward removal ?
We have a metric ton of players with gear ready to upgrade and no accessible means to do it.
They now have to decide.....
"Do I spend cash to do it now ? but I'm amost there!!! " or "Do I grind my mind out of my skull to do it, But I'm almost there!!!"
Same thing will happen to new players, they'll be all like "hey this is neat I can refine my stuff easily every month or so" then when the refinement bars are full they'll be like "eeerm...eh...how am I ever gonna make it?"
/tin foil hat
Put your tin foil hats on and BrainFoil storm this pweeeez xD
Well, they have a business to run and maintaining&developing this game isn't free. I assume recent changes mod6-> has affected negatively on cash flow (reading general comments about this game) so they have to come up some new ways to make some money.
getting the majority of them from Wondrous Boxes during invocation.
@zebular: What is a Wondrous Box? I've been playing since Mod1 and I've never heard of such a thing. (I've also only ever gotten 2 coal wards Invoking near-daily in that period with 2 characters.)
Something tells me that it was earlier. Like getting the greater marks in dread ring...I was lucky enough to save up about 60 of each so I didn't care when they removed them. I think this speaks to a general strategy: when you see something good, farm the hell out of it---it's not going to last.
Odds certainly were better but as of the last I played the game, around Mod 8 release, the last invoke box you could take did have a very small chance of giving a coal ward.
Ima go out on a limb and say that very minor chance is quite a bit less now in a ninja nerf to support their new marketing strategy. No free coals = all the casuals handing over their CC for ridiculous prices in cash shop.
If they had just done a rework of the zen store prices at the same time as ganking the wards from t-bar this would have been a non issue. I think most ppl would agree that a couple of bucks each (or relative value in AD) for the wards would have been more acceptable. 10 bucks each is tantamount to financial HAMSTER which is why they have likely sold next to none of them in the cash shop. Its always give and take. Give first is usually best, not later as a panic move when you see the torches and pitchforks from the Keep's ramparts. Mr Shicoff could never be considered a financially inclined person, so I really wonder how he keeps being allowed to make these decisions.
All three Coffers of Wondrous (insert type here) have a chance to award Coalescent Wards. I've gotten Coalescent Wards from each of them. As I said above, it feels to me that I get more from the first of the three you can buy.
A chance to get something, is still only a chance at the end of the day. I have seen 2 Coals in 11 coffers, and i have seen only a few Pres in 50+ coffers too.
And my personal rule for F2P games... never invest money into equipment (or in this case enchantments). Any update can replace them at any time with something "better", i rather invest my money into account-wide unlocks, but if the game doesn't offer me interesting ones, i stop investing money at all.
Just saying, they could have improved ViP instead, and they would have a solid way of gaining revenue month after month. Or they could have introduced new class packs with every last update, with better content in them and upgraded the existing "DLCs" too.
Anyway, all i'm saying is, i'm not against supporting the game with money within reason...
Well, they have a business to run and maintaining&developing this game isn't free. I assume recent changes mod6-> has affected negatively on cash flow (reading general comments about this game) so they have to come up some new ways to make some money.
I'm up for that. Of course they do, theres people to be payed for their work, Royalties for Brand Names (WoT DnD), etc etc and keep NW alive.
I'd spend my hard earned money on this game quite happily (i've done already elsewhere) if the Publisher or the people behind all these changes showed some integrity and not a cash grab roll back on services system.
How can I possibly trust them to even think of paying for an in-game service?! You can now, with evidence 100% assume that they will double back on anything instead of coming up with new ways to monetize their game.
This was downright lame and lazy (blame the botters).
And to get back on subject, I had a talk with some friends who told me they wouldn't be able to continue playing the game for the reasons/fears mentioned above and just quit!!!! damn it's frikkin mod6 all over again
A player shouldn't FEAR the developer of a game he plays will double back on what he has offered him for money. He should be happy to spend money to HELP the developer maintain the game and give him more fun content to play on.
There have been friends of mine who indeed had been amassing RP to upgrade their stuff feeling they were reaching that point where they would spend their bars and reach their goal.
Guess what....life - work got in the way, they didn't have time to cash in that day, and now they're done.
If the change was one bad move, the announcement timing was downright planned, evil and should be heavily frowned upon.
Ye I'm up for them making money to maintain a game. Not this way tho, not this way
Anyway, all i'm saying is, i'm not against supporting the game with money within reason...
You know, that's the most ironic thing. I bought VIP because I felt bad about the dev layoffs when I had been playing for free for years. I'm a software developer and I've been through a few. I wanted to support the game, but at the same time, I didn't want to ruin it by "buying an advantage". VIP was _perfect_ (I didn't even notice the tarm bars until after I had it.)
But I've also worked for some rather ruthless corporations; I feel like I can see, from the actions that are clearly forced down from above the devs, that their jobs are doomed, they just don't know it yet. This latest move makes me feel like I'm supporting the parent company, not the devs, and that's not really a good motivation for me. I really couldn't care much less about the wards being removed (except for its indications about the mindset of the parent co). It took forever to get my vorpal enchants to even need one, and by then I had one. When my VIP runs out in a few weeks, I'm going to have to decide two things: 1) whether I'm still enjoying running the same 2 skirmishes and 2 dungeons every day, and if so, 2) whether the lack of injuries and travel signpost are worth $10/mo.
Fortunately, we should have Mod9 by then, and I'll get to see how bad the treadmill will be to stay mediocre (3k, r9s, gvorp)
[Edit: honestly, guild-chat is about the most enjoyable part of the game these days. (Kudos to whoever planned that; they pretty much told us up front their intent was to give us something to feel invested in--and in that they delivered.) I'll feel truly ridiculous if I take a 1GB patch every 6 months just to have a chat-program]
LMAO to the activity of Mods to divert the nature of the damaging change of service that has occured. All this does is highlight that players are throwing cash into a profiteering scheme that upholds an EULA so biased that it can effectively take your money and end your account without recourse.
I'm happy to see what Paypal thinks of this, maybe the same as Microsoft
This game was never going to last forever anyway. Are they going to be able to make it as far as mod 12? Will mid-2017 see NWO still up and running? I'm not sure.
You'd think that a game that had a solid design and a good "feel" to it would seem to have some longevity. Like, you'd be able to say "oh yeah this will be around for a good couple more years still..."
I'm not sensing that solidity here anymore. It feels loose, weak, disjointed. Like it's time is coming. Probably not going to be neverwinter online in 2018, I would guess.
getting the majority of them from Wondrous Boxes during invocation.
@zebular: What is a Wondrous Box? I've been playing since Mod1 and I've never heard of such a thing. (I've also only ever gotten 2 coal wards Invoking near-daily in that period with 2 characters.)
Something tells me that it was earlier. Like getting the greater marks in dread ring...I was lucky enough to save up about 60 of each so I didn't care when they removed them. I think this speaks to a general strategy: when you see something good, farm the hell out of it---it's not going to last.
Odds certainly were better but as of the last I played the game, around Mod 8 release, the last invoke box you could take did have a very small chance of giving a coal ward.
Ima go out on a limb and say that very minor chance is quite a bit less now in a ninja nerf to support their new marketing strategy. No free coals = all the casuals handing over their CC for ridiculous prices in cash shop.
If they had just done a rework of the zen store prices at the same time as ganking the wards from t-bar this would have been a non issue. I think most ppl would agree that a couple of bucks each (or relative value in AD) for the wards would have been more acceptable. 10 bucks each is tantamount to financial HAMSTER which is why they have likely sold next to none of them in the cash shop. Its always give and take. Give first is usually best, not later as a panic move when you see the torches and pitchforks from the Keep's ramparts. Mr Shicoff could never be considered a financially inclined person, so I really wonder how he keeps being allowed to make these decisions.
All three Coffers of Wondrous (insert type here) have a chance to award Coalescent Wards. I've gotten Coalescent Wards from each of them. As I said above, it feels to me that I get more from the first of the three you can buy.
And hence my suggestion to make invoking possible via gateway, as not all of us manage to log into the game daily, or don't want to log a specific character (or many of those) every 15-30-45... min.
Please fix Zhentarim Warlock companion's skill "Arcane Warping" to the originally intended "Arcane Boost" zhentarim-warlock-companion
There is another D&D game out there on Update 30 celebrating its 10th anniversary right now. Cant see NW making it that far pulling stunts like this.
You mean the same that wanted real money for a token with a even worse drop than wards to progress beyond level 4, then again at 8, 12 and so on, and real money to do some of the content..... yeah i pass
Please fix Zhentarim Warlock companion's skill "Arcane Warping" to the originally intended "Arcane Boost" zhentarim-warlock-companion
What it was a reply to has no relevance. 12 hours is not sufficient time to warn tens of thousands of players of change with so much impact - which will become obvious after those who did get a chance to notice run out of what they stocked, unless a new change happens to counter this.
Fact is, that is the last official statement regarding that specific item. When you put together sentences such as "We reserve the right to change what we want" and "Coalescent Wards will not be leaving the T-Bar store", the only logical assumption one can reach is that whatever change may come will not involve the removal of those wards, unless the 2nd sentence is addressed; preferably within reasonable time frames.
Edit: If you wanted to make that announcement absolutely clear and impossible to link to the present situation, an additional statement along the lines of "This doesn't mean that, in the future, Coalescent Wards might not be removed from the T-Bar store, if necessary." would have been great.
Edit 2: That announcement states that it's addressing a discussion stirred by a different announcement (on Underdark) made 1 day before. I honestly can't find it, if you'd care to link it for me, please.
Which is a massive missing of the point.
You (as in Cryptic/PWE) clearly have the legal right (in the US at least) to do what you've done, which is all you seem to care about. That is utterly irrelevant, if you keep pulling immoral stunts like this which would equate to bait and switch fraud if perpetrated in the real world, players will vote with their feet/wallets, and some will have nothing to do with Cryptic/PWE ever again.
As an aside, your communication/PR is terrible. Giving only one day's notice is ridiculous (didn't cost me but cost some of my friends who are furious and left with several hundred completely useless to them trade bars).
Comments
Because after all, that would be the logical conclusion here.
And no, i'm not joking.
At this point it is not about the Trade Bars Store anymore, it is about trust.
When we players can't trust whoever is in charge of NWO anymore, when we have to worry about every future update, why should we continue to spend money here?
7.1 When we update or “patch” any of our Games, we may utilize a patch routine to verify whether the most recent version of the client software is installed on your computer. If not, the most recent version may automatically be uploaded to your computer, and you hereby consent to, and waive any further notice of, such upload."
"26. Disciplinary Action / Account & Service Termination
26.1 FOR ANY REASON WE MAY SUSPEND, TERMINATE, MODIFY, BLOCK ACCESS TO OR DELETE THE SERVICE OR ANY ACCOUNT OR PART THEREOF, BY GIVING YOU NOTICE OF SUCH WITHIN THE TIME PERIOD SPECIFIED WHEN YOU CREATED AN ACCOUNT OR JOINED A SERVICE, OR IF NO SUCH TIME PERIOD WAS SPECIFIED, THEN WITHIN THIRTY (30) DAYS OF THE DATE SUCH NOTICE IS PROVIDED TO YOU BY EMAIL OR IS POSTED ON THE WEBSITE OR INTERACTIVE AREA BY US."
(edit: not sure if the "or part thereof" refers to the account or the service; if it's the account, this has no value)
(edit 2: scrape the second quote; the intention of the change isn't "Disciplinary Action / Account & Service Termination")
This is from the Terms at the bottom of this forum. It says nothing about "no obligation to provide updates".
You guys see this, right? What other possible explanation is there? These guys aren't moustache-twiddling villains bent on HAMSTER you over, they're a bunch of dudes trying to manage servers with limited bandwidth and resources. If there's too many 70s draining the servers, then you gotta do something about it.
Now don't get me wrong... I am NOT in favor of what they did to the VIP players, and there is no way in HELL I am ever giving another penny to cryptic for anything ever again. But ppl saying this is fraud and talking about lawsuits is goofy. They decided to sacrifice the cheap 70s. They made a design decision. It's not like they held a meeting where conspirators in black cloaks all got together and planned out how they would lie to us all while cackling with evil glee.
They need to remove refinement entirely Have appropriate level enhancements drop from appropriate leveled content. Oh of you want your players to buy something make actual content. Make new dungeons make new areas to explore. Take the Heroic encounters and toss them out the window, they bore the HAMSTER out of most of us.
Don't make us pay money to enhance our gear to meet an item level to do content. Make us pay money to buy cool content, and enhance the appearance of our PC's with cosmetic gear.
Guess what? When that statement was made, the items existed in both places as they always have so by stating they would not be negatively affected without a disclaimer stating that at some point in the future this might change, for whatever reason, and then selling both keys and VIP based on the implied reason that part of the value of said services were the T-bar available wards, they have fundamentally changed the value of said previously sold services without attempt at value remediation (such as was done for the xbox folks).
This is a deceitful business practice and a company that engages in such practices opens itself to whatever it's customers feel is right to retrieve said lost value as well as public shaming of said company through the FTC and the BBB as well as other entities in customer's home countries.
So zeb, ambi and the others, you can defend them if you want to but you become the sacrificial lamb the company itself is wanting you to be when you really don't need to. Don't be the face of the misdeeds. You can state facts such as the chargeback stuff and be kept blameless but don't step into the mire of defending what was done here. Speaking of that weren't there more mods until recently?
I for one will no longer be paying for the VIP with my money. I will try to grind enough AD to buy it through transfer. I just don't see the point in paying anymore. I was willing to pay to shorten the time it took me to level my enchantments to 12 but now that the coalescent wards are gone there isn't a true need for it.
In short i wont have to pay to level my gear just work harder for it oh and crypitc? i was going to buy several months worth the VIP just to make my job easier, you guys actually saved me money because i wont be buying VIP i see no reason to have it , since easier coal-wards was a major selling point for me.
Kirk : My god bones...her head is gone :eek:
Mccoy : DAMNIT JIM!! im a doctor not a game developer
yetweallfalldown clearly stated "Coalescent Wards WILL NOT be leaving the stores and pricing WILL NOT increase."
That right there is a PROMISE! It doesn't matter if it was a response to question, it doesn't matter if it was 6 months ago. That is an EMPHATIC statement that they are here too stay.
I am sick and tierd of this carp, every few months the Marketing Department unilaterally decides to screw with us players and it is NEVER for our benefit.
I have spent a lot of money on this game because I LOVE this game. But like any relationship where I am being treated like I must, for my health. Step away...
PLEASE STOP with the dirty underhanded tricks, we are not idiots! We know why these things are done because you arent the first game company to do them...
I know Cryptic's anti-gold-seller strategy is to remove the exploitable interfaces, rather than remove the gold-sellers...but when the bots are just running normal content and selling normal items---making their AD using massive numbers of accounts, rather than high-return exploits, how can Cryptic's strategy possibly work? In this case the strategy reduces to "remove all value from running any content."
The bots will happily run boring content for minimal rewards---and will do it 24/7/365. We, the human players, will find it tedious and boring, and will eventually decide to abandon our several-years investment in our characters. I know I'm rapidly burning through my ability to perceive value in my character. Hope mod-9 can change this.
Pro-zebular: the direct quote was with respect to the tradebar-rework, asked during its planning phase; it was accurate for the intended change---the wards remained, and prices were in fact lowered.
Pro-nimandiir: the intent of the question being answered was to determine the future availability of wards.
Con-zebular: the devs have said that removing the wards was caused by lowering of prices during the rework--hence it is directly related to the discussion 6 months ago.
Con-nimandiir: it is likely that the devs did not intend the price change to tank their economy, and hence their revenue, so while the removal is their fault, and is directly related to the cited quotation, it was believably an 'unanticipated consequence' rather than a planned contrivance.
Believe me, when revenue falls, the corporate guys will take decisions out of your hands fast. I'm here waiting to see what the response will be when half of the players choose not to renew their VIP.
I'm with you, I think they are fast going to realize how big of a mistake this is. Every one of my guild members are not pleased (understatment) and the channel we are a part of is in downright flames.
I'm gonna grab my popcorn and see how this plays out...
Edit: As an aside, It seems I may actually save some money for a while
1. farm enough that VIP is profitable even without tradebars---they make enough AD to buy their VIP every mongth, and have enough left over to get coalescent wards without spending money; or
2. have spent hundreds of real dollars upgrading the SH, so $10 for a coal ward is no big deal.
The people who are (and should be) angriest are the causal players who used money to buy VIP as a feasible path to upgrade equipment.
Per the numerous posts on the ToS, they had no real guarantees about the availability of wards, but in the same vein, Microsoft's EULA disclaims all liability if their OS deletes all of a user's files...but if they periodically chose to do it to 'avoid confusion', users would still be pissed.
If you think I am defending the removal of wards from the Trade Bar Store, you are wrong and must have missed my post quoted below where I outright said that I don't agree with the change and find it silly. All I am defending is against false accusations, which I'd do for anyone. To be perfectly clear, I do not agree that Wards should not be available in the Trade Bar Store. Never-the-less, it has happened and I shall accept it for it doesn't really impact me. I don't open Locked Boxes for Trade Bars, they're just bonus things to buy more items. Also, I posted in another thread the following.
[ Support Center • Rules & Policies and Guidelines • ARC ToS • Guild Recruitment Guidelines | FR DM Since 1993 ]
Something tells me that it was earlier. Like getting the greater marks in dread ring...I was lucky enough to save up about 60 of each so I didn't care when they removed them. I think this speaks to a general strategy: when you see something good, farm the hell out of it---it's not going to last.
[ Support Center • Rules & Policies and Guidelines • ARC ToS • Guild Recruitment Guidelines | FR DM Since 1993 ]
If they had just done a rework of the zen store prices at the same time as ganking the wards from t-bar this would have been a non issue. I think most ppl would agree that a couple of bucks each (or relative value in AD) for the wards would have been more acceptable. 10 bucks each is tantamount to financial HAMSTER which is why they have likely sold next to none of them in the cash shop. Its always give and take. Give first is usually best, not later as a panic move when you see the torches and pitchforks from the Keep's ramparts. Mr Shicoff could never be considered a financially inclined person, so I really wonder how he keeps being allowed to make these decisions.
[ Support Center • Rules & Policies and Guidelines • ARC ToS • Guild Recruitment Guidelines | FR DM Since 1993 ]
Reading a few posts on the Coal/Pres removal throughout the forum I had an epiphany...
I was turning my head into a pulp squeezing brain matter to understand why there are so many 2xRP events lately (maybe even twice a month) when a few mods (not too far) back you'd see one in every 2-3 months.
Then it occurred to me...
Of Course...
They've been helping speed up the refinement process, preparing to starve people of reagents and lead them to the ZEN store.
So what do we have post ward removal ?
We have a metric ton of players with gear ready to upgrade and no accessible means to do it.
They now have to decide.....
"Do I spend cash to do it now ? but I'm amost there!!! "
or
"Do I grind my mind out of my skull to do it, But I'm almost there!!!"
Same thing will happen to new players, they'll be all like "hey this is neat I can refine my stuff easily every month or so" then when the refinement bars are full they'll be like "eeerm...eh...how am I ever gonna make it?"
/tin foil hat
Put your tin foil hats on and BrainFoil storm this pweeeez xD
I have seen 2 Coals in 11 coffers, and i have seen only a few Pres in 50+ coffers too.
And my personal rule for F2P games... never invest money into equipment (or in this case enchantments).
Any update can replace them at any time with something "better", i rather invest my money into account-wide unlocks, but if the game doesn't offer me interesting ones, i stop investing money at all.
Just saying, they could have improved ViP instead, and they would have a solid way of gaining revenue month after month.
Or they could have introduced new class packs with every last update, with better content in them and upgraded the existing "DLCs" too.
Anyway, all i'm saying is, i'm not against supporting the game with money within reason...
Of course they do, theres people to be payed for their work, Royalties for Brand Names (WoT DnD), etc etc and keep NW alive.
I'd spend my hard earned money on this game quite happily (i've done already elsewhere) if the Publisher or the people behind all these changes showed some integrity and not a cash grab roll back on services system.
How can I possibly trust them to even think of paying for an in-game service?!
You can now, with evidence 100% assume that they will double back on anything instead of coming up with new ways to monetize their game.
This was downright lame and lazy (blame the botters).
And to get back on subject, I had a talk with some friends who told me they wouldn't be able to continue playing the game for the reasons/fears mentioned above and just quit!!!! damn it's frikkin mod6 all over again
A player shouldn't FEAR the developer of a game he plays will double back on what he has offered him for money.
He should be happy to spend money to HELP the developer maintain the game and give him more fun content to play on.
There have been friends of mine who indeed had been amassing RP to upgrade their stuff feeling they were reaching that point where they would spend their bars and reach their goal.
Guess what....life - work got in the way, they didn't have time to cash in that day, and now they're done.
If the change was one bad move, the announcement timing was downright planned, evil and should be heavily frowned upon.
Ye I'm up for them making money to maintain a game. Not this way tho, not this way
But I've also worked for some rather ruthless corporations; I feel like I can see, from the actions that are clearly forced down from above the devs, that their jobs are doomed, they just don't know it yet. This latest move makes me feel like I'm supporting the parent company, not the devs, and that's not really a good motivation for me. I really couldn't care much less about the wards being removed (except for its indications about the mindset of the parent co). It took forever to get my vorpal enchants to even need one, and by then I had one. When my VIP runs out in a few weeks, I'm going to have to decide two things:
1) whether I'm still enjoying running the same 2 skirmishes and 2 dungeons every day, and if so,
2) whether the lack of injuries and travel signpost are worth $10/mo.
Fortunately, we should have Mod9 by then, and I'll get to see how bad the treadmill will be to stay mediocre (3k, r9s, gvorp)
[Edit: honestly, guild-chat is about the most enjoyable part of the game these days. (Kudos to whoever planned that; they pretty much told us up front their intent was to give us something to feel invested in--and in that they delivered.) I'll feel truly ridiculous if I take a 1GB patch every 6 months just to have a chat-program]
I'm happy to see what Paypal thinks of this, maybe the same as Microsoft
You'd think that a game that had a solid design and a good "feel" to it would seem to have some longevity. Like, you'd be able to say "oh yeah this will be around for a good couple more years still..."
I'm not sensing that solidity here anymore. It feels loose, weak, disjointed. Like it's time is coming. Probably not going to be neverwinter online in 2018, I would guess.
zhentarim-warlock-companion
Pure -> Transcendent Plague Fire weapon enchantment giving 80damge/20 seconds for 500k+ AD is a joke.
plague-fire-weapon-enchant-r11-vs-r12
zhentarim-warlock-companion
Pure -> Transcendent Plague Fire weapon enchantment giving 80damge/20 seconds for 500k+ AD is a joke.
plague-fire-weapon-enchant-r11-vs-r12
You (as in Cryptic/PWE) clearly have the legal right (in the US at least) to do what you've done, which is all you seem to care about. That is utterly irrelevant, if you keep pulling immoral stunts like this which would equate to bait and switch fraud if perpetrated in the real world, players will vote with their feet/wallets, and some will have nothing to do with Cryptic/PWE ever again.
As an aside, your communication/PR is terrible. Giving only one day's notice is ridiculous (didn't cost me but cost some of my friends who are furious and left with several hundred completely useless to them trade bars).