I mean, it's gonna crate endless balance problems when everyone just wanna be more powerful and that will ruin everyone's gaming experience. It's impossible for everyone to have tir 12 enchants anyhow, so isn't it probably better off for more people with tir 5 so that at least we can enjoy some exciting dungeon runs that really requires teamwork as well as fair pvps that doesn't just rely on gs? What's so bad about it when you start to think about others who spend less time and money here than you do? Without them you're gonna be there getting bullied by more powerful players. Quit being sentimental for cash grab, well you're paying them for your time and money to get lockboxes anyways, not me.
TRY Running A lvl70 Cragmire 2k Without higher level gear, most of my best toons gear is lvl 9-10 And I have played over a year, I have no further intrest in PVE the content is all poor recycled and lame, or reptative all I enjoyed was the Last PVP League, now with the pay to winners all having Lionsmaine/lvl 10-12 enchants I am totally outclassed unless I invest stupid money, in a lame duck.. Why bother better openworld/Sandbox games with superb balanced PVP were skill not cash wins Are coming out with a buy the game and buy the expansions policy, were the game shops sell glamour gear and none essentials (not items you must have to progress)... And if you go for a SUB they reward you, don't go back on the deal THEY PROMISED and make your expirance an unachievable impossabilty!
Wake up smell the caffine and do somthing better!
I havent played any of my TOONs for Neverwinter since this Nerf and now have no interest (I playing better games), unless I see a change in the fundamental Lie to and Exploite the players concept of Free to play pay to win it will gain no more time or cash from me, I just wish I had realised this was the case when the leadership Nerf happend.
THERE IS no Economey in a game but what the Dev's set! don't believe anything else!
THAT Economey is there to exploite as much as it can from the player, and these guys make millions! check the press.
A truly careing developer would not constantly Nerf the players, They can see who exploits from there own reporting mechanisums, so could ban such players rather than Nerf everyone.
No being more powerful dosnt create balance problems, infact My Paladin and Ranger "Carry" A lot of low GS characters in PVE Dungeons, what ruins it is lack of a challenge system for PVP that allows you to refuse a fight with higher level GS player in PVP, Other games do this why not Neverwinter, well to make it essential you upgrade to have a good experiance, read the warning for example if you go to a zone your character is to low for, you can only access the content with high level gear!
dude, i run ecc when at 2.1k or 2.2k before, couple times. they could nerf you in a way you don't notice just alter the mechanism of dr and ri so this is definately not for nerf but for balance. now ppl got pissed off bcuz they're not paying vip and/or enchanted keys to win anymore, if you hate that already, what's your problem then?
to host a game is not that easy as you think if you know anything about coding and btw original dev's prob all gone by now this is just run by successor programmers of the company. You think they can ban hackers that easily? prob not. reason is real hackers throw money into it and makes more out of it. are you gonna make this money up by grind for vip if they just ban them? No and that's why they push ppl to buy enchanted keys. Now if it's not gonna be like that anymore then that's a good sign at least. There's more about economy and politics that you need to learn, so wake up and go to school, no hard feelings.
I mean, it's gonna crate endless balance problems when everyone just wanna be more powerful and that will ruin everyone's gaming experience. It's impossible for everyone to have tir 12 enchants anyhow, so isn't it probably better off for more people with tir 5 so that at least we can enjoy some exciting dungeon runs that really requires teamwork as well as fair pvps that doesn't just rely on gs? What's so bad about it when you start to think about others who spend less time and money here than you do? Without them you're gonna be there getting bullied by more powerful players. Quit being sentimental for cash grab, well you're paying them for your time and money to get lockboxes anyways, not me.
TRY Running A lvl70 Cragmire 2k Without higher level gear, most of my best toons gear is lvl 9-10 And I have played over a year, I have no further intrest in PVE the content is all poor recycled and lame, or reptative all I enjoyed was the Last PVP League, now with the pay to winners all having Lionsmaine/lvl 10-12 enchants I am totally outclassed unless I invest stupid money, in a lame duck.. Why bother better openworld/Sandbox games with superb balanced PVP were skill not cash wins Are coming out with a buy the game and buy the expansions policy, were the game shops sell glamour gear and none essentials (not items you must have to progress)... And if you go for a SUB they reward you, don't go back on the deal THEY PROMISED and make your expirance an unachievable impossabilty!
Wake up smell the caffine and do somthing better!
I havent played any of my TOONs for Neverwinter since this Nerf and now have no interest (I playing better games), unless I see a change in the fundamental Lie to and Exploite the players concept of Free to play pay to win it will gain no more time or cash from me, I just wish I had realised this was the case when the leadership Nerf happend.
THERE IS no Economey in a game but what the Dev's set! don't believe anything else!
THAT Economey is there to exploite as much as it can from the player, and these guys make millions! check the press.
A truly careing developer would not constantly Nerf the players, They can see who exploits from there own reporting mechanisums, so could ban such players rather than Nerf everyone.
No being more powerful dosnt create balance problems, infact My Paladin and Ranger "Carry" A lot of low GS characters in PVE Dungeons, what ruins it is lack of a challenge system for PVP that allows you to refuse a fight with higher level GS player in PVP, Other games do this why not Neverwinter, well to make it essential you upgrade to have a good experiance, read the warning for example if you go to a zone your character is to low for, you can only access the content with high level gear!
dude, i run ecc when at 2.1k or 2.2k before, couple times. they could nerf you in a way you don't notice just alter the mechanism of dr and ri so this is definately not for nerf but for balance. now ppl got pissed off bcuz they're not paying vip and/or enchanted keys to win anymore, if you hate that already, what's your problem then?
to host a game is not that easy as you think if you know anything about coding and btw original dev's prob all gone by now this is just run by successor programmers of the company. You think they can ban hackers that easily? prob not. reason is real hackers throw money into it and makes more out of it. are you gonna make this money up by grind for vip if they just ban them? No and that's why they push ppl to buy enchanted keys. Now if it's not gonna be like that anymore then that's a good sign at least. There's more about economy and politics that you need to learn, so wake up and go to school, no hard feelings.
Spoiler Alert - Hosting is not Developing - before sending people to school learn the difference. Both cost money though.
Spoiler Alert 2 - The "real" hackers run absolutely free accounts with free items (inspect random mage in ashmadai lair). The only money they are putting into is internet connection/hardware.
Spoiler Alert 3 - Yes we already made that money up by grinding/buying the said VIP and changing the reward you get from VIP after you have invested in it is considered by some (*looks at 27 pages) unfair.
Spoiler Alert 4 - Banning bots is quite easy actually - it takes the time of a single individual - for example the guy/girl deleting posts here to watch the usual places bots use and simply ban them (no hard coding, no repetitive movement detection - just log into ashmadai lair whisper to the player and ban them if no response from the active player) - so a 2 day level-up will be destroyed by the admin with a few clicks and 2 min. observation - it is not worth to do for the developer cause of 2 things: a) Bots count as players, so game looks more played in metrics - else player base would probably drop by 50+% b) some people are suggesting that the company itself is running those bots as to get money from the game which is then not to be shared with developers/license holders (HASBRO/WOTC).
Please fix Zhentarim Warlock companion's skill "Arcane Warping" to the originally intended "Arcane Boost" zhentarim-warlock-companion
And for all those who say, just grind AD and convert to Zen... what happens when they disable the AD to Zen part of the exchange. They have done it before, they can do it again.
And for all those who say, just grind AD and convert to Zen... what happens when they disable the AD to Zen part of the exchange. They have done it before, they can do it again.
Simple, i won't renew VIP and buy my zenstore stuff from the Auction house. If i stay in the game at all that is.
Please fix Zhentarim Warlock companion's skill "Arcane Warping" to the originally intended "Arcane Boost" zhentarim-warlock-companion
I mean, it's gonna crate endless balance problems when everyone just wanna be more powerful and that will ruin everyone's gaming experience. It's impossible for everyone to have tir 12 enchants anyhow, so isn't it probably better off for more people with tir 5 so that at least we can enjoy some exciting dungeon runs that really requires teamwork as well as fair pvps that doesn't just rely on gs? What's so bad about it when you start to think about others who spend less time and money here than you do? Without them you're gonna be there getting bullied by more powerful players. Quit being sentimental for cash grab, well you're paying them for your time and money to get lockboxes anyways, not me.
TRY Running A lvl70 Cragmire 2k Without higher level gear, most of my best toons gear is lvl 9-10 And I have played over a year, I have no further intrest in PVE the content is all poor recycled and lame, or reptative all I enjoyed was the Last PVP League, now with the pay to winners all having Lionsmaine/lvl 10-12 enchants I am totally outclassed unless I invest stupid money, in a lame duck.. Why bother better openworld/Sandbox games with superb balanced PVP were skill not cash wins Are coming out with a buy the game and buy the expansions policy, were the game shops sell glamour gear and none essentials (not items you must have to progress)... And if you go for a SUB they reward you, don't go back on the deal THEY PROMISED and make your expirance an unachievable impossabilty!
Wake up smell the caffine and do somthing better!
I havent played any of my TOONs for Neverwinter since this Nerf and now have no interest (I playing better games), unless I see a change in the fundamental Lie to and Exploite the players concept of Free to play pay to win it will gain no more time or cash from me, I just wish I had realised this was the case when the leadership Nerf happend.
THERE IS no Economey in a game but what the Dev's set! don't believe anything else!
THAT Economey is there to exploite as much as it can from the player, and these guys make millions! check the press.
A truly careing developer would not constantly Nerf the players, They can see who exploits from there own reporting mechanisums, so could ban such players rather than Nerf everyone.
No being more powerful dosnt create balance problems, infact My Paladin and Ranger "Carry" A lot of low GS characters in PVE Dungeons, what ruins it is lack of a challenge system for PVP that allows you to refuse a fight with higher level GS player in PVP, Other games do this why not Neverwinter, well to make it essential you upgrade to have a good experiance, read the warning for example if you go to a zone your character is to low for, you can only access the content with high level gear!
dude, i run ecc when at 2.1k or 2.2k before, couple times. they could nerf you in a way you don't notice just alter the mechanism of dr and ri so this is definately not for nerf but for balance. now ppl got pissed off bcuz they're not paying vip and/or enchanted keys to win anymore, if you hate that already, what's your problem then?
to host a game is not that easy as you think if you know anything about coding and btw original dev's prob all gone by now this is just run by successor programmers of the company. You think they can ban hackers that easily? prob not. reason is real hackers throw money into it and makes more out of it. are you gonna make this money up by grind for vip if they just ban them? No and that's why they push ppl to buy enchanted keys. Now if it's not gonna be like that anymore then that's a good sign at least. There's more about economy and politics that you need to learn, so wake up and go to school, no hard feelings.
I know plenty about coding having Deved PC Game addons and mods, Cgi and Game models and been coding since the 1970s etc etc etc, both my sons too have Been studying for Games/Programing/coding Degrees, Hosting a game is easy with the right skill group in your Dev team and a decent Server, whats not easy is getting honesty out of a Dishonest profit model, operated by dishonest people..
Free play like this IS Pay to win and is just a minimal effort cash cow for the Developer/Hoster, I have friends who host online games free using models I made free.. I could have made millions, but gave what I created to the Comunity I am involved with, not everyones like that I know, but a profit margin dosn't have to rip off the honest player as is happening here Imho.
Putting lower cost Coalescents in the T-bar shop and offering Vip to get T-Bars cheapely was a Lure A Marketing ploy to hook more people Most of whom will accept the change back to Zen only Coalescents, never question, rarely use forums and are easy to cheat.
Part of the Vip deal IS Enchanted keys, you get T-bars ergo you could get coalescents to use on upgrades, this reduces the $ sales of 1000zen cost coalescents, why buy them if you can get 2-3 a month with luck for 840 zen (1 month vip bought with 15% discount voucher), I was getting 150-230 T bars a month from Vip daily keys all were used for upgrading my gear.
No you drop the T-bar version because your loosing $20 a month profit in theory, and such boosts are pure profit for the Host/Developer and I can Guarantee their Zen sales wer hit to hard by the 75 T-bar Coalescent, the other fact is cheap wards allow fast character development so people spend less because their toons max out faster, whos going to spend money on a max GS Toon !, their "Economy" is all about keeping you spending, a game that needs upto $1800 to max one toon is a rip-off, its you who need to go to school and do the math (no offence)
On the other hand, making things cheaper would make it easier to run alts. They wouldn't spend that money upgrading an already near max character, instead they'd spend Zen to grab another few character slots and start leveling up a Paladin, Warlock, whatever the next class happens to be, etc. and all the gear they need for that toon.
> @aboon#1086 said: > > @unruly65 said: > > So, I need some advice. > > > > I had just paid $20 to have enough zen to purchase 3 more months of VIP, then the next day the big announcement came. > > Do a "charge-back" with your credit card and/or PayPal. Get your money back. >
This is funny: Someone replied to my message, calling me an "idiot" for suggesting a charge-back because they'll ban your account. Cryptic censored *that* message but not mine! Ha.
Anyway, I'd say: 1) If they're being dishonest, who cares if they ban your account? 2) I've heard (but don't have references to) stories where they haven't banned the accounts -- and really, if there's a chance a user will still spend more money(*) but not otherwise create disruption, why would they? I don't have direct knowledge either way, though, so caveat emptor….
(*)… and all these people saying, "I'm going to play out my VIP and then quit!" Uh, yeah… in 3 weeks or 3 months when your VIP is gone, you'll have adjusted to the game as it is and your anger over this move will be forgotten…. and so you'll be inclined to spend more $$/Zen/AD at that point anyway… Not that I blame anyone for doing this, but Crypic is surely quite literally banking on short human memories….
tbh, though… I think it's just going to come down to coal wards being too expensive to make the game enjoyable now….
I would say that I find it odd that we haven't heard jack from the devs or strum or really anyone in nearly a week and almost 40 pages of rage (many, many pages removed for, you know, reasons). I would say that, but as someone who has watched cryptic's head in the sand (or other less sanitary location of solitude) many times when making hugely unpopular decisions, this is par for the course.
They hope that it dies down, safe in the assumption that the casuals who spend without care or reason and don't come to the forums will still be there and the folks raging here will eventually give in and go back and join them. And the truly crappy thing is that if history tells us anything, they are probably right.
Here's a quick call: If you're still lurking in this thread waiting for some kind of response, say "I".
Let me be the first: I
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minotaur2857Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,141Arc User
edited February 2016
As far as I'm concerned this has largely killed any interest I have in this game. I have 14 level 70s and thought they had the economy pretty much right just before this change. So much so that I spent what for me is a considerable amount of money in the black Friday sale. One of the things I bought was VIP to get me to this year's black Friday. I feel conned, a substantial part of that decision was based on the wards that the bars made available.
What do the players want ? from what I can judge, the old dungeons back as epics and the ability to progress at a reasonable rate. What do we get ? More levelling dungeons that only people farming ADs on multiple alts ever do, and no chance to progress. I have 3 3200-3500 chars, gone is the chance to get any of them close to max, and to bring my 2200 that I'd earmarked as my next project up to that sort of level, it simply takes too long now. **edit** realised I missed out one of the important ones - new classes - we heard bard was coming between issues 8/9, well that didn't happen. My characters in P&P4E are druid, assassin, monk, psion, barbarian, none of which I can play here **edit**
Worse, we have a newish player in our guild, one character around 2K, no weapon/armor enchantments, rank 5s, how is he supposed to be able to gear up to even 2500 without dropping a lot of RM or spending months playing fairly casually.
I'll give these changes a few weeks to shake out with the new module coming out, but unless something changes dramatically it looks like time to charge back what I spent on black Friday and never have anything to do with Cryptic again, which is particularly hard for me to do as I played City of Heroes for 8+ years which was a Cryptic game till they sold it, and gave me my best MMO experiences.
Do they really think this will just go away? Just like that? To be honest last time people raged, it last for a week and a half, then people grew tired of waiting for a reply. They quit or they just left the forums. Like i did.. got sick of waiting for any kind of change. Ofc it did not happen. Just like it will not happen now.
And for all those who say, just grind AD and convert to Zen... what happens when they disable the AD to Zen part of the exchange. They have done it before, they can do it again.
Care to elaborate? When exactly we were not able to exchange AD to ZEN ?
Nancy - Dragonborn, SM Guardian Fighter A proud member of "mythical horde of DPS GFs"
1). Is SW more dps or tank based? 2). Yes. I am panzer! 3). Get ACT if you want to celebrate your epeen. 4). Horniness will not stand between me and what I believe - "MM"
And for all those who say, just grind AD and convert to Zen... what happens when they disable the AD to Zen part of the exchange. They have done it before, they can do it again.
Care to elaborate? When exactly we were not able to exchange AD to ZEN ?
Maybe when there was a sudden flooding of the market with billions upon billions of new diamonds and Zen prices crashed? But they rolled it back up, so it should not be it.
I know there was a period of time when you had to wait for a few weeks to get your Zen... ? But the zax was still up and about. So that is not it as well.
Here's a quick call: If you're still lurking in this thread waiting for some kind of response, say "I".
Let me be the first: I
Yeah, still waiting, but not holding my breath.
Did anyone else note that they're doing a 2x refinement weekend? As if 2x refinement points will in any way meaningfully offset the more than doubled price of a coal ward. I have other choice words that would get this post deleted, so I'll leave it at that.
I mean, it's gonna crate endless balance problems when everyone just wanna be more powerful and that will ruin everyone's gaming experience. It's impossible for everyone to have tir 12 enchants anyhow, so isn't it probably better off for more people with tir 5 so that at least we can enjoy some exciting dungeon runs that really requires teamwork as well as fair pvps that doesn't just rely on gs? What's so bad about it when you start to think about others who spend less time and money here than you do? Without them you're gonna be there getting bullied by more powerful players. Quit being sentimental for cash grab, well you're paying them for your time and money to get lockboxes anyways, not me.
What's bad is the fact that people's experiences got altered AFTER they had already invested in it. If you don't understand what that means, this conversation no longer has a purpose.
I don't understand what that means. EVERYBODY knows how to adjust to changes, if you don't understand what that means, this conversation no longer has a purpose.
If VIP isn't about taking advantage over other players, I suggest the removal of TB discounts as well; just so it'll be more in line with your thoughts. (@mramarodan and @l0th4ri0)
Do not forget removing the Zen = AD trade. Removing all the shiny stuff from the trade bars merchant.
Heck i would even go with removing the lockbox keys of the VIP buyers. Just to " scale it " I mean it is not like they paid any real money for it, right?
Oh oh, while we are at it. I say making all of the epic dungeons level of entry to at least 3.5 k. and PVP to at least 4k .
Also no more wards from invoking chests as well! And no pres. wards. Actually they should make it 1000 zen for that as well.
No mounts ingame, except Zen market and lockboxes.. No dyes can be bought for AD or bars, just Zen market.
Removing all of the VIP " privileges " as well! That is always a good move! Right?
.... remind me if i missed anything.
In case someone did not get it, it is sarcasm. </3</p>
Easy buddy, it's a game. Does it worth to grind 10 hrs a day for VIP that you can make by working for 1 or 2 hours in the real world? Only the bot hacks and ddos-ers are not gonna be able to enjoy anything anymore, not a normal, intelligence gamer with common sense.
I am playing this game a longer period of time. It is just a game for you. But for some other people it is still something they invested time and real money into. And it really does not matter if we are talking about virtual non existing customer / buyers contract. Or anything else similar to fair conduct . A common player grinds and refines 36k a day. He farms his HAMSTER off, and pays for VIP for benefits in order to help himself out. He gives currencies out in order to help his guild and grinds that stupid edemo so his guild mates can finish their campaign before the new one starts. That is a real, normal, intelligent player. Who now has no choice but to spend 500 000 on auction house to buy 1 ward.
I n any case , it does not matter.
Grind 36k per day 24/7 doesn't sound like a real, normal, intelligent gamer, but more of an addict that would do crazy stuff to other people. consider what you are doing here, either you have to re-evaluate your IQ or you need referral to a psychiatrist.
PWE/Cryptic/NWO are obviously killing their own game by choice. They are probarbly having a ball watching it burn to the ground. Stop complaining guys, just movee on. It's hard,I know. You spent hours and money into it but we are acting like abused lovers.
"He beats you up and you go back to him. No matter how broken and bruised you get you still crawl back,why?"
'Well he is nice sometimes,look I even got a coalescent ward as a sorry gift.'
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plasticbatMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 12,355Arc User
Here's a quick call: If you're still lurking in this thread waiting for some kind of response, say "I".
Let me be the first: I
Yeah, still waiting, but not holding my breath.
Did anyone else note that they're doing a 2x refinement weekend? As if 2x refinement points will in any way meaningfully offset the more than doubled price of a coal ward. I have other choice words that would get this post deleted, so I'll leave it at that.
I am not aware they are doing 2x refinement weekend. I think they are doing 2x Enchantment weekend.
*** The game can read your mind. If you want it, you won't get it. If you don't expect to get it, you will. ***
And for all those who say, just grind AD and convert to Zen... what happens when they disable the AD to Zen part of the exchange. They have done it before, they can do it again.
Care to elaborate? When exactly we were not able to exchange AD to ZEN ?
Back before mod 6, you could change Zen into AD, but every time I went to look to do AD into Zen that function seemed to be closed. Maybe I was wrong...
I have spent over a thousand dollars on this game, this is the final straw for me, no more money will i spend. To say I am frustrated is... i dont think there is a word in the english language for what I feel for how you guys treat us except AAAARRRRRRGGGGGG!!!!
I Bought up to VIP 12 and the free keys actually made me start buying key packs and saving trade bars, now the ONLY things i spend trade bars on are gone. SHAME, SHAME, SHAME!
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plasticbatMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 12,355Arc User
And for all those who say, just grind AD and convert to Zen... what happens when they disable the AD to Zen part of the exchange. They have done it before, they can do it again.
Care to elaborate? When exactly we were not able to exchange AD to ZEN ?
Back before mod 6, you could change Zen into AD, but every time I went to look to do AD into Zen that function seemed to be closed. Maybe I was wrong...
Well, you were wrong.
*** The game can read your mind. If you want it, you won't get it. If you don't expect to get it, you will. ***
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kreatyveMember, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 10,545Community Moderator
And for all those who say, just grind AD and convert to Zen... what happens when they disable the AD to Zen part of the exchange. They have done it before, they can do it again.
Care to elaborate? When exactly we were not able to exchange AD to ZEN ?
Back before mod 6, you could change Zen into AD, but every time I went to look to do AD into Zen that function seemed to be closed. Maybe I was wrong...
It wasn't closed, there was just an extremely long backlog where it took days, and sometimes weeks to get your Zen due to the fact that there was so much AD in the economy.
My opinions are my own. I do not work for PWE or Cryptic. - Forum Rules - Protector's Enclave Discord - I play on Xbox Any of my comments not posted in orange are based on my own personal opinion and not official. Any messages written in orange are official moderation messages. Signature images are now fixed!
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ambisinisterrMember, Neverwinter ModeratorPosts: 10,462Community Moderator
IF you feel cheated you can issue a cash-back Via your bank, Paypal or Credit card for any Zen you used to buy Vip just before they announced the change, such short notice amounts to fraud or mis-representation of a service on their part since they made a prior promise the items in question would not be removed, and the excuse they give for the change is rubbish as they still have items in both the Zen and T-bar market.
Alternately flatly don't pay any cash in future and don't believe their lies.
Please do not advise people to issue a chargeback. Charge-backs exist to protect people from fraudulent charges. They are not supposed to be used instead of requesting a refund or to force a company to refund when they do not agree to it. Issuing a charge-back is a malicious action.
Malicious could seem like the wrong word but it is very accurate as charge-backs have various negative effects beyond just ripping money out of a company or person's hands. Charge-backs are not meant to be done towards a company you still wish to do business with so issuing a charge-back will result in your account being banned.
The best analogy I can think of is punching your friend in the stomach in order to get something you gave them back. You might get whatever you wanted back but the friendship will be over.
F2P Players are Content, Not Consumers. If you are not paying for something then you not a consumer you are a product to be sold. In this Case you provide what basic amounts to an autonomous NPC.
I have invested money in this game. VIP was one thing I bought, so I am not a F2P player. However, that being said, I no longer spend a dime on the game, because none of the countless issues raised by the community are ever addressed by the devs. I think we saw all we needed to see, when they finally have a live stream to allow players to speak with the devs, and Andy spends the whole time playing the game. For me, that summed up their total lack of commitment to fixing the numerous issues within the game.
Please do not advise people to issue a chargeback. (snip) The best analogy I can think of is punching your friend in the stomach in order to get something you gave them back. You might get whatever you wanted back but the friendship will be over.
Well it could be argued quite persuasively that this "friend" in your analogy punched the person first. Depending on how long they have been "friends", it could be said that there have been several punches. In sensitive areas.
But I will also encourage folks to not do chargebacks. Just learn your lesson, folks. Do not repeat the mistake you made.
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plasticbatMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 12,355Arc User
Yes, this friend sucker punched us with an Ironman glove a few times. Oh well ......
*** The game can read your mind. If you want it, you won't get it. If you don't expect to get it, you will. ***
Charge-backs exist to protect people from fraudulent charges.
There was a long discussion earlier in the thread surrounding the legal term "Fraud in the Inducement." I submit that many people feel that what you (Cryptic) have done is fraudulent.
They are not supposed to be used instead of requesting a refund ...
This is a good point -- requesting a refund should be a first step (I'd agree), and would also ultimately make a charge-back (if it's necessary) more effective.
If Cryptic actually /does/ give refunds, however, that would go a *long* way (imho) toward showing that they made a mistake(*) that they're sincerely trying to correct, rather than just following the blind disregard that so many have accused them of.
((*) that is -- a mistake in the entire set-up of their economy, which they're only slowly waking up to....)
IF you feel cheated you can issue a cash-back Via your bank, Paypal or Credit card for any Zen you used to buy Vip just before they announced the change, such short notice amounts to fraud or mis-representation of a service on their part since they made a prior promise the items in question would not be removed, and the excuse they give for the change is rubbish as they still have items in both the Zen and T-bar market.
Alternately flatly don't pay any cash in future and don't believe their lies.
Please do not advise people to issue a chargeback. Charge-backs exist to protect people from fraudulent charges. They are not supposed to be used instead of requesting a refund or to force a company to refund when they do not agree to it. Issuing a charge-back is a malicious action.
Malicious could seem like the wrong word but it is very accurate as charge-backs have various negative effects beyond just ripping money out of a company or person's hands. Charge-backs are not meant to be done towards a company you still wish to do business with so issuing a charge-back will result in your account being banned.
The best analogy I can think of is punching your friend in the stomach in order to get something you gave them back. You might get whatever you wanted back but the friendship will be over.
Not a problem for some. I knew someone who felt ripped off from day one when NWO first opened with an offer for a $200 "deal" giving them first rights and perks good for the weekend. He was never able to participate due to an unresolved glitch and missed out on the weekend event. Feeling taken he cancelled the transaction from his bank, and laughed at the admin notice banning his account. I tell him NWO is not a bad game, but he doesn't care. Tell's me it was a dishonest set up from the get go. Now I wonder about what he told me.
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ambisinisterrMember, Neverwinter ModeratorPosts: 10,462Community Moderator
edited February 2016
I didn't say don't do it but know that you will be banned because, as I said, it is a malicious action. You may absolutely feel wronged but if you charge back you will be closing the door.
Look up the rules for chargebacks and consider the legal defintion of fraud. If you watch any court shows you will always see people sue for emotional distress or defamation of character but while anything which would land you in court would be emotionally distressing there is a very specific legal definition to emotional distress and defamation of character which most people that sue for it do not fall under.
A change in a service is not fraud and if you became disatisfied after the purchase that would fall under buyer's remorse. False advertising, taking payments without your permission....etc. would be fraud. Feel free to consult your legal counsel in the matter but using a service without knowing the laws that govern them is not a wise decision.
Hence why I do not want people to simply tell others to issue a charge-back as there is more to it than deciding you are unhappy with a service. I am not saying I am right in saying there was no fraud; that is still up to you all as individuals to decide, but do not suggest others to follow that course haphazardly.
And as an additional note I did nothing. I am just a player with a special title for volunteering my spare time. I'm not paid by Cryptic whatsoever.
Can we get at least a pause button for ViP now? And can we get at least an editable spam filter against the AD sellers spam now?
And the people in charge should take a look at http://steamcharts.com/app/109600 and think about ways to actually bring more players back to the game.
Uhm, this chart is significant because I estimate Steam is maybe 20% of the player base. This means overall, I estimate, NWO is trending between 11K to 16K players.
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vinceent1Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,264Arc User
I didn't say don't do it but know that you will be banned because, as I said, it is a malicious action. You may absolutely feel wronged but if you charge back you will be closing the door.
Look up the rules for chargebacks and consider the legal defintion of fraud. If you watch any court shows you will always see people sue for emotional distress or defamation of character but while anything which would land you in court would be emotionally distressing there is a very specific legal definition to emotional distress and defamation of character which most people that sue for it do not fall under.
A change in a service is not fraud and if you became disatisfied after the purchase that would fall under buyer's remorse. False advertising, taking payments without your permission....etc. would be fraud. Feel free to consult your legal counsel in the matter but using a service without knowing the laws that govern them is not a wise decision.
Hence why I do not want people to simply tell others to issue a charge-back as there is more to it than deciding you are unhappy with a service. I am not saying I am right in saying there was no fraud; that is still up to you all as individuals to decide, but do not suggest others to follow that course haphazardly.
And as an additional note I did nothing. I am just a player with a special title for volunteering my spare time. I'm not paid by Cryptic whatsoever.
what rules someone breaks if he order a chargeback? to deserve a ban ....
Comments
to host a game is not that easy as you think if you know anything about coding and btw original dev's prob all gone by now this is just run by successor programmers of the company. You think they can ban hackers that easily? prob not. reason is real hackers throw money into it and makes more out of it. are you gonna make this money up by grind for vip if they just ban them? No and that's why they push ppl to buy enchanted keys. Now if it's not gonna be like that anymore then that's a good sign at least. There's more about economy and politics that you need to learn, so wake up and go to school, no hard feelings.
Spoiler Alert 2 - The "real" hackers run absolutely free accounts with free items (inspect random mage in ashmadai lair). The only money they are putting into is internet connection/hardware.
Spoiler Alert 3 - Yes we already made that money up by grinding/buying the said VIP and changing the reward you get from VIP after you have invested in it is considered by some (*looks at 27 pages) unfair.
Spoiler Alert 4 - Banning bots is quite easy actually - it takes the time of a single individual - for example the guy/girl deleting posts here to watch the usual places bots use and simply ban them (no hard coding, no repetitive movement detection - just log into ashmadai lair whisper to the player and ban them if no response from the active player) - so a 2 day level-up will be destroyed by the admin with a few clicks and 2 min. observation - it is not worth to do for the developer cause of 2 things:
a) Bots count as players, so game looks more played in metrics - else player base would probably drop by 50+%
b) some people are suggesting that the company itself is running those bots as to get money from the game which is then not to be shared with developers/license holders (HASBRO/WOTC).
zhentarim-warlock-companion
Pure -> Transcendent Plague Fire weapon enchantment giving 80damge/20 seconds for 500k+ AD is a joke.
plague-fire-weapon-enchant-r11-vs-r12
If i stay in the game at all that is.
zhentarim-warlock-companion
Pure -> Transcendent Plague Fire weapon enchantment giving 80damge/20 seconds for 500k+ AD is a joke.
plague-fire-weapon-enchant-r11-vs-r12
> > @unruly65 said:
> > So, I need some advice.
> >
> > I had just paid $20 to have enough zen to purchase 3 more months of VIP, then the next day the big announcement came.
>
> Do a "charge-back" with your credit card and/or PayPal. Get your money back.
>
This is funny: Someone replied to my message, calling me an "idiot" for suggesting a charge-back because they'll ban your account. Cryptic censored *that* message but not mine! Ha.
Anyway, I'd say: 1) If they're being dishonest, who cares if they ban your account? 2) I've heard (but don't have references to) stories where they haven't banned the accounts -- and really, if there's a chance a user will still spend more money(*) but not otherwise create disruption, why would they? I don't have direct knowledge either way, though, so caveat emptor….
(*)… and all these people saying, "I'm going to play out my VIP and then quit!" Uh, yeah… in 3 weeks or 3 months when your VIP is gone, you'll have adjusted to the game as it is and your anger over this move will be forgotten…. and so you'll be inclined to spend more $$/Zen/AD at that point anyway… Not that I blame anyone for doing this, but Crypic is surely quite literally banking on short human memories….
tbh, though… I think it's just going to come down to coal wards being too expensive to make the game enjoyable now….
They hope that it dies down, safe in the assumption that the casuals who spend without care or reason and don't come to the forums will still be there and the folks raging here will eventually give in and go back and join them. And the truly crappy thing is that if history tells us anything, they are probably right.
Let me be the first: I
What do the players want ? from what I can judge, the old dungeons back as epics and the ability to progress at a reasonable rate. What do we get ? More levelling dungeons that only people farming ADs on multiple alts ever do, and no chance to progress. I have 3 3200-3500 chars, gone is the chance to get any of them close to max, and to bring my 2200 that I'd earmarked as my next project up to that sort of level, it simply takes too long now. **edit** realised I missed out one of the important ones - new classes - we heard bard was coming between issues 8/9, well that didn't happen. My characters in P&P4E are druid, assassin, monk, psion, barbarian, none of which I can play here **edit**
Worse, we have a newish player in our guild, one character around 2K, no weapon/armor enchantments, rank 5s, how is he supposed to be able to gear up to even 2500 without dropping a lot of RM or spending months playing fairly casually.
I'll give these changes a few weeks to shake out with the new module coming out, but unless something changes dramatically it looks like time to charge back what I spent on black Friday and never have anything to do with Cryptic again, which is particularly hard for me to do as I played City of Heroes for 8+ years which was a Cryptic game till they sold it, and gave me my best MMO experiences.
To be honest last time people raged, it last for a week and a half, then people grew tired of waiting for a reply.
They quit or they just left the forums. Like i did.. got sick of waiting for any kind of change. Ofc it did not happen. Just like it will not happen now.
When exactly we were not able to exchange AD to ZEN ?
A proud member of "mythical horde of DPS GFs"
1). Is SW more dps or tank based?
2). Yes. I am panzer!
3). Get ACT if you want to celebrate your epeen.
4). Horniness will not stand between me and what I believe - "MM"
I know there was a period of time when you had to wait for a few weeks to get your Zen... ? But the zax was still up and about.
So that is not it as well.
Did anyone else note that they're doing a 2x refinement weekend? As if 2x refinement points will in any way meaningfully offset the more than doubled price of a coal ward. I have other choice words that would get this post deleted, so I'll leave it at that.
"He beats you up and you go back to him. No matter how broken and bruised you get you still crawl back,why?"
'Well he is nice sometimes,look I even got a coalescent ward as a sorry gift.'
I Bought up to VIP 12 and the free keys actually made me start buying key packs and saving trade bars, now the ONLY things i spend trade bars on are gone. SHAME, SHAME, SHAME!
Any of my comments not posted in orange are based on my own personal opinion and not official.
Any messages written in orange are official moderation messages. Signature images are now fixed!
Charge-backs exist to protect people from fraudulent charges. They are not supposed to be used instead of requesting a refund or to force a company to refund when they do not agree to it. Issuing a charge-back is a malicious action.
Malicious could seem like the wrong word but it is very accurate as charge-backs have various negative effects beyond just ripping money out of a company or person's hands. Charge-backs are not meant to be done towards a company you still wish to do business with so issuing a charge-back will result in your account being banned.
The best analogy I can think of is punching your friend in the stomach in order to get something you gave them back. You might get whatever you wanted back but the friendship will be over.
However, that being said, I no longer spend a dime on the game, because none of the countless issues raised by the community are ever addressed by the devs.
I think we saw all we needed to see, when they finally have a live stream to allow players to speak with the devs, and Andy spends the whole time playing the game. For me, that summed up their total lack of commitment to fixing the numerous issues within the game.
But I will also encourage folks to not do chargebacks. Just learn your lesson, folks. Do not repeat the mistake you made.
However...
This is a good point -- requesting a refund should be a first step (I'd agree), and would also ultimately make a charge-back (if it's necessary) more effective.
If Cryptic actually /does/ give refunds, however, that would go a *long* way (imho) toward showing that they made a mistake(*) that they're sincerely trying to correct, rather than just following the blind disregard that so many have accused them of.
((*) that is -- a mistake in the entire set-up of their economy, which they're only slowly waking up to....)
You may absolutely feel wronged but if you charge back you will be closing the door.
Look up the rules for chargebacks and consider the legal defintion of fraud. If you watch any court shows you will always see people sue for emotional distress or defamation of character but while anything which would land you in court would be emotionally distressing there is a very specific legal definition to emotional distress and defamation of character which most people that sue for it do not fall under.
A change in a service is not fraud and if you became disatisfied after the purchase that would fall under buyer's remorse. False advertising, taking payments without your permission....etc. would be fraud. Feel free to consult your legal counsel in the matter but using a service without knowing the laws that govern them is not a wise decision.
Hence why I do not want people to simply tell others to issue a charge-back as there is more to it than deciding you are unhappy with a service. I am not saying I am right in saying there was no fraud; that is still up to you all as individuals to decide, but do not suggest others to follow that course haphazardly.
And as an additional note I did nothing. I am just a player with a special title for volunteering my spare time. I'm not paid by Cryptic whatsoever.