Obvious trolls are obvious. I don't know why people keep responding to him. It will only serve to get the thread shut down as being "not productive". Which is probably the desired outcome.
This 100 times!
They are fanboys, who come or are sent here with different agenda to troll and present a reason for closure of threads. Old and boring trick, it was used against me in the past 99% of the time, so i can spot them from a mile away.
Wow, paranoia will destroya. Not going to bother trying to convince you I am new to the game.
Failure in your logic! If you are new to the game, how can you tell, if the things i and many state here are right or wrong. A beginner arguing with people, who are here since beta or launch.
Perhaps this is not my first MMO? Is NW a special unique snowflake?
Cryptic's staff popped smoked and dropped artillery. That is... they are conducting a retrograde maneuver... or, in other words, they're hiding in a hole waiting for us to stop shooting at them. Once everyone quiets down, they can get back to finding more ways to squeeze more money out of players while telling you the change is to fix something. I mean, they're not lying I guess - it's to fix falling revenues, and maybe to fix the fact the bosses need to get themselves into new 2016 BMWs... I mean, the 2015s are so..... this year.
the way the game been shedding players since April they'll be lucky if they can swing a used Fiat.
Obvious trolls are obvious. I don't know why people keep responding to him. It will only serve to get the thread shut down as being "not productive". Which is probably the desired outcome.
This 100 times!
They are fanboys, who come or are sent here with different agenda to troll and present a reason for closure of threads. Old and boring trick, it was used against me in the past 99% of the time, so i can spot them from a mile away.
Wow, paranoia will destroya. Not going to bother trying to convince you I am new to the game.
Failure in your logic! If you are new to the game, how can you tell, if the things i and many state here are right or wrong. A beginner arguing with people, who are here since beta or launch.
Perhaps this is not my first MMO? Is NW a special unique snowflake?
Dunno. How many MMOs are headed by people without a causal connection to reality, their own player base, and have a lead dev so out of touch he's talking about PVP by using the model that was removed several months ago?
Obvious trolls are obvious. I don't know why people keep responding to him. It will only serve to get the thread shut down as being "not productive". Which is probably the desired outcome.
This 100 times!
They are fanboys, who come or are sent here with different agenda to troll and present a reason for closure of threads. Old and boring trick, it was used against me in the past 99% of the time, so i can spot them from a mile away.
Wow, paranoia will destroya. Not going to bother trying to convince you I am new to the game.
Failure in your logic! If you are new to the game, how can you tell, if the things i and many state here are right or wrong. A beginner arguing with people, who are here since beta or launch.
Perhaps this is not my first MMO? Is NW a special unique snowflake?
Dunno. How many MMOs are headed by people without a causal connection to reality, their own player base, and have a lead dev so out of touch he's talking about PVP by using the model that was removed several months ago?
Does Blizzard count? They pretty much killed the Diablo franchise after D2 and WoW was on a slide since the first expansion.
My point is that I am not new to MMO economies.
0
matiagronxMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 251Arc User
Isn't this great ? So many new features coming up and no players to use it.
These changes had made the game impossible to play by casual players. Do you want to have anything worthy in game? you need AD for it. Ok, how do I get AD? Oh, do some dungeons, PvP and skirmishes. Nice! but I don't have much time to do these things. Well no AD for you then. OK, what can I do without AD? NOTHING !!!
There are so many things done wrong in this game BUT the AD removal from Leadership is NOT one of them. It was rushed, true. Some people invested in it recently and didnt have the time to get back their investment. I doubt they were more than a handfull and i wish Cryptic would do something to compensate them for their investment. The rest of the players who had invested in Leadership bots got their money back MULTIPLE times, you cant possibly imagine the figures. So that was a GOOD thing, mkay! Now to correct something, If you dont have time to farm ad dear meltzar then PAY SOME REAL MONEY. If you are in a hurry, PAY. The rest of the playerbase who dedicated their precious time get rewarded with ad, the more time u spend the more ad you get. Since leadership became a plague, the ad rewards (BoE items, Gmops etc) were removed to balance out the Leadership bots. But still if u run enough you push your luck to the limit and get good ad. You will not get tens of millions but you will surely get enough.
Isn't this great ? So many new features coming up and no players to use it.
These changes had made the game impossible to play by casual players. Do you want to have anything worthy in game? you need AD for it. Ok, how do I get AD? Oh, do some dungeons, PvP and skirmishes. Nice! but I don't have much time to do these things. Well no AD for you then. OK, what can I do without AD? NOTHING !!!
There are so many things done wrong in this game BUT the AD removal from Leadership is NOT one of them. It was rushed, true. Some people invested in it recently and didnt have the time to get back their investment. I doubt they were more than a handfull and i wish Cryptic would do something to compensate them for their investment. The rest of the players who had invested in Leadership bots got their money back MULTIPLE times, you cant possibly imagine the figures. So that was a GOOD thing, mkay! Now to correct something, If you dont have time to farm ad dear meltzar then PAY SOME REAL MONEY. If you are in a hurry, PAY. The rest of the playerbase who dedicated their precious time get rewarded with ad, the more time u spend the more ad you get. Since leadership became a plague, the ad rewards (BoE items, Gmops etc) were removed to balance out the Leadership bots. But still if u run enough you push your luck to the limit and get good ad. You will not get tens of millions but you will surely get enough.
Agree in entirety. I suspect the forum is being filled with the vocal minority that believe taking AD from leadership was wrong. Many have left, but I doubt many believe that leadership armies were a good thing for the game (good for themselves personally, sure)
Isn't this great ? So many new features coming up and no players to use it.
These changes had made the game impossible to play by casual players. Do you want to have anything worthy in game? you need AD for it. Ok, how do I get AD? Oh, do some dungeons, PvP and skirmishes. Nice! but I don't have much time to do these things. Well no AD for you then. OK, what can I do without AD? NOTHING !!!
There are so many things done wrong in this game BUT the AD removal from Leadership is NOT one of them. It was rushed, true. Some people invested in it recently and didnt have the time to get back their investment. I doubt they were more than a handfull and i wish Cryptic would do something to compensate them for their investment. The rest of the players who had invested in Leadership bots got their money back MULTIPLE times, you cant possibly imagine the figures. So that was a GOOD thing, mkay! Now to correct something, If you dont have time to farm ad dear meltzar then PAY SOME REAL MONEY. If you are in a hurry, PAY. The rest of the playerbase who dedicated their precious time get rewarded with ad, the more time u spend the more ad you get. Since leadership became a plague, the ad rewards (BoE items, Gmops etc) were removed to balance out the Leadership bots. But still if u run enough you push your luck to the limit and get good ad. You will not get tens of millions but you will surely get enough.
Mati. My time is short, as my break is coming to its end....
I have three characters. I don't have time to upgrade them all thanks to these new changes. Now. Why should I pay so much money (run the math, going by the in-house system, it's about 400$ to upgrade an artifact weapon, under ideal circumstances) that I could buy a brand new computer, when I have no reason to suspect Cryptic won't just turn around and render my massive investment invalid with no warning and no compensation for the money invested?
Isn't this great ? So many new features coming up and no players to use it.
These changes had made the game impossible to play by casual players. Do you want to have anything worthy in game? you need AD for it. Ok, how do I get AD? Oh, do some dungeons, PvP and skirmishes. Nice! but I don't have much time to do these things. Well no AD for you then. OK, what can I do without AD? NOTHING !!!
There are so many things done wrong in this game BUT the AD removal from Leadership is NOT one of them. It was rushed, true. Some people invested in it recently and didnt have the time to get back their investment. I doubt they were more than a handfull and i wish Cryptic would do something to compensate them for their investment. The rest of the players who had invested in Leadership bots got their money back MULTIPLE times, you cant possibly imagine the figures. So that was a GOOD thing, mkay! Now to correct something, If you dont have time to farm ad dear meltzar then PAY SOME REAL MONEY. If you are in a hurry, PAY. The rest of the playerbase who dedicated their precious time get rewarded with ad, the more time u spend the more ad you get. Since leadership became a plague, the ad rewards (BoE items, Gmops etc) were removed to balance out the Leadership bots. But still if u run enough you push your luck to the limit and get good ad. You will not get tens of millions but you will surely get enough.
Mati. My time is short, as my break is coming to its end....
I have three characters. I don't have time to upgrade them all thanks to these new changes. Now. Why should I pay so much money (run the math, going by the in-house system, it's about 400$ to upgrade an artifact weapon, under ideal circumstances) that I could buy a brand new computer, when I have no reason to suspect Cryptic won't just turn around and render my massive investment invalid with no warning and no compensation for the money invested?
Answer: I shouldn't.
No one thinks the leadership change alone will solve everything. A lot more needs to be adjusted to make the game viable for folks like you and I.
Thing that sucks is that F2P games all rely on Microtransactions to remain afloat. Sub model MMOs dont really care how much wealth a player amasses (or they cap it somehow) because they dont rely on this type of thing. In NW you have to kiss the ring at some point when the king gets upset that the taxes aren't being paid.
Isn't this great ? So many new features coming up and no players to use it.
These changes had made the game impossible to play by casual players. Do you want to have anything worthy in game? you need AD for it. Ok, how do I get AD? Oh, do some dungeons, PvP and skirmishes. Nice! but I don't have much time to do these things. Well no AD for you then. OK, what can I do without AD? NOTHING !!!
There are so many things done wrong in this game BUT the AD removal from Leadership is NOT one of them. It was rushed, true. Some people invested in it recently and didnt have the time to get back their investment. I doubt they were more than a handfull and i wish Cryptic would do something to compensate them for their investment. The rest of the players who had invested in Leadership bots got their money back MULTIPLE times, you cant possibly imagine the figures. So that was a GOOD thing, mkay! Now to correct something, If you dont have time to farm ad dear meltzar then PAY SOME REAL MONEY. If you are in a hurry, PAY. The rest of the playerbase who dedicated their precious time get rewarded with ad, the more time u spend the more ad you get. Since leadership became a plague, the ad rewards (BoE items, Gmops etc) were removed to balance out the Leadership bots. But still if u run enough you push your luck to the limit and get good ad. You will not get tens of millions but you will surely get enough.
Agree in entirety. I suspect the forum is being filled with the vocal minority that believe taking AD from leadership was wrong. Many have left, but I doubt many believe that leadership armies were a good thing for the game (good for themselves personally, sure)
*sighs*
Again. We don't object to the removal of the leadership AD in and of itself. We object to the removal of it in what is clearly an at best knee-jerk unplanned attempt to squeeze more real life cash out of us while giving us nothing else in return (such as adjusting the time of the leadership tasks, giving us better alternative rewards etc) while giving us a comparative pittance in return that requires us to make the game a second job (I ran a dungeon last night. Second time through, TOS, and got 75AD for my trouble. With nary a sign of the 3K bonus I was promised, indicating they either flat out lied to me or they moved forward with a buggy, hastily implemented plan with very little testing done to make sure it actually freaking worked*).
*Frankly, my money is on the latter. I generally believe that it is best not to ascribe to malice that which can be explained by incompetence, and the current dev team is clearly not the sharpest blades in the armory, if Mod 6 was anything to go by, but there's a bitter cynic in me that won't let me forget that Cryptic has made bald-face lies to its customer base before in this very game, and pulled off a doozy of one during the Second Year Anniversary.
in my opinion the devp did far more damage to the game then any botter ever has done, fire the whole team responsable for that disaster called mod 6 and get back every single programmer that made the game good when it was originally released many years ago. Now they seem top think they have to make radacle changes every day to " justify" their paychecks when the best think they can to is call out sick or not show up and definitly not change anything for a lon long time other then to roll back to mod 5. They are working on new mods befor old ones are bugged and lagged, i can predict the future of nw its going to be called ghost towns
Not even the company says it was an exploit. The company says BOTS were using it as an exploit. And legit players are not bots.
Ah, I see. Let me see if I understand you correctly: "Legit Players" doing "X": Fair Play "Botters" doing "X": Exploit
Very compelling argument you have there. /sarcasm off
Legit players are not bots, because bots doing something is an exploit while legit players doing the same thing is not. Go on.
yep, bots are a exploit so anything they do is exploiting, hence them using leadership was exploiting or invoking or runing skirmishes, all exploiting, so long as a bot is doing it. but bots were just the excuse the real reason is they want to make anyone that wants to have top 10% gear pay $4000 because lets face it it it takes about 30 million AD to buy all your artifacts(the best artys on there own are 9-15million, the better perfect+ rank weapon enchantments are 5-10mill AD ) upgrade all your enchantments, if your a bit patient and wait for double periods,
at 24k a day thats 1250 days worth of daily refining.
I mean I can explain everything but I made one post and have had my words twisted completely to the point I end up backtracking and arguing against statements I never said to begin with.
Hey folks, Scott here again to give you an update on the state of the Neverwinter and the Astral Diamond economy. We’re going to be making a number of changes, all of which should increase the amount of AD most players earn in a given day.
Goatshark's statement here is a bit of a fallacy to begin with. Without reference to relatives like time and other factors, we are already given the assumption that players will be making more AD in a given day. As it is, this is not true. In the future we are not even certain of other changes, diamond sinks, bugged skirmishes. Even the dwindling player base.
You simply cannot make the guarantee that goatshark made..... And think again if you want to highlight the "should" part, since the eye catching bolded part does not include it. If you want your words not to be twisted, start off by leveling with people and telling the straight honest truth. not a fairytale dreamt up by some pixie dev.
Valid arguments are being considered but two way communication requires people to stop twisting words and comparing apples to oranges.
Botting RP by farming nodes and such in ghost stories is not the same as botting AD. Certainly it needs to and is being addressed but it really is not relevant to the botting and farming of Leadership which generated AD at a rate which players could not hope to compete with. This is why the Zen Exchange has been capped for nearly two years and is why these changes are being made.
Yes they could just keep making more AD sinks but the more sinks they add the more hurt people who play the game instead of farm leadership become. As such the necessary act is to switch rewarding NW Farmville to rewarding playing Neverwinter.
As far as twisting words i hardly see why cryptic/pwe/you would expect a level playing field as this discussion goes when in fact a level playing field was never provided to begin with. The very fact that the dev post looks like the product of a spin doctors effort to say "we are taking diamonds out of leadership". Throw in some promises of a more stable economy and some half baked numbers of how much we could be getting per pve/pvp run is the reason why so many people are upset.
I'll even point out again.... the launcher on tuesday had an over glorified advertisement for stronghold seige being patched in that day. No word on Leadership changes going live. If you cannot admit that looked shady aswell then less respect to this game and company, much less. And percentage of people in game that knew about the changes versus people that didn't know because they don't go to the forums? I think from last week first day this discussion went up would be 30% didn't know versus a 60% did know give or take 10% either way. still at best 20% did not seem to know what was going. Do you want to lose even 20% of your players? How about 20% less profit for the game? in zone chat thursday/friday "wait whats this talk about no diamonds in leadership?" was common . Would have been better for players if leadership change was announced in launcher: "Important news about leadership profession, click to read discussion". not that hard to link.
As for your arguement about apples and oranges, both are fruit. Fruit in this case: diamonds. Leadership, you get diamonds. RP Farm, get rp items which are then listed in AH to be sold for..... diamonds. End result? diamonds!. Bots in skirmishes/dungeons/pvp afking? diamonds!! not that hard to understand, unless your rigidity on the subject results in the proverbial horse blinders being put on.
As it stands, i like many others was conned into getting vip. 57 days left on it. Only reason for me to log now is to collect my vastly useless key and open a lockbox to get my 2 tarmalune bar average and HAMSTER booster pack.
HA! "twisting my words" Announcement VIP Access!! get an enchanted key a day per account!
*not advertised*Significantly reduced rewards out of lockboxes due to VIP rewarded daily key *not advertised*
My guild chief is helping me see this whole thing in a different light; it's a shift in economic models from a strong allotment-based (rAD) system - which he says you're pretty much a sucker if you lean on that - to more of a player-exchange economy - sort of like moving from welfare to the stock exchange. It is a bit of a shock for people like me, but it has potential if you know what you're doing. That said, it's not what they're telling us it is. Of course, he was also talking about selling blue drops from epic/level 70 content, which is not yet available to me.
That said, it appears selling blue drops from normal content is not entirely without dividends.
… All that being said, I do sill think they should give out a flatter, fairer rate of rAD rewards - certainly during CTA events; building a fat stockpile was fun, and I've still got leftovers to nibble on - and it did get me one pirate tricorn.
If you want robofarming, go play farmville or something.
lol aye a stock exchange were 10% or less of the population controls 95% of the wealth and has no finanical oversight or insider trading and already has syndicates in the form of botters :P if he has lots of ad already hell do well, much like the real world but on steroids cause no finacial colusion laws
i sujest you see howmany african tribesmen are big players in the real world stock market unless your starting with a hoard
i would more likely say that your guild masters desperatly trying to keep members from leaving and thats the best he could come up with
lol aye a stock exchange were 10% or less of the population controls 95% of the wealth and has no finanical oversight or insider trading and already has syndicates in the form of botters :P if he has lots of ad already hell do well, much like the real world but on steroids cause no finacial colusion laws
i sujest you see howmany african tribesmen are big players in the real world stock market unless your starting with a hoard
I forsee another potential problem with this tactic. Not only is much of the player base leaving (meaning fewer people buying), but AH prices are adjusting to compensate for the drop in rAD rewards. The AH may not be very profitable for much longer. In any case, it's a HUGE shift in the game's economy, and the shockwaves are doubtless just getting started. Even if it isn't really an a-bomb at this point, it may reach those proportions in time.
If you want robofarming, go play farmville or something.
With 60+ pages and counting, I decided to join the scrum and get lost in the churn. This thread contains some quite cogent comments, as well as the absurd. It’s entertaining and informative. Apologies up front for the length my; this is my CliffsNotes version. Yes it really is CliffsNotes, not cliff notes.
Observations:
- Bots, RP farmers, and their ilk, exist because they fill a need and it is profitable, else they would not be doing it.
- People buy from said Bots and their ilk because it fills a need. There are numerous reasons for this, among them: laziness, greed, impatience, a need for instant gratification and advancement, not enough time or money in real life to achieve desired goals within the “official” structure, prices are perceived to be too high or are artificially set (price controls) thereby causing distortions and triggering end run behavior, and the list goes on…
- Any game “income” earning system that does not require effort (save pressing a few buttons), impose character-centric limitations, is largely passive, and is accepted if not outright encouraged by the supplier of that income, can be coopted and done far more efficiently by bots and macros than by real people. Whether this system is good, bad, or indifferent on a virtual economy is a topic for a different discussion. To reference a song first sung by Ethel Merman (showing my age here), “Anything You Can Do (I can bot better).” Botters and RP farmers within the existing system could generate/aggregate AD and RP in a way no human could. To use a more modern reference from the first Terminator movie: “Listen, and understand! That Bot/Farmer is out there! It can't be bargained with. It can't be reasoned with. It doesn't feel pity, or remorse, or fear. And it absolutely will not stop, ever, until you are dead.” Actually, it will keep doing it even after you are dead…
- One thing I’ve learned about MMOs is they generally share at least one goal: to separate your money from you in some way. I fully support this because absent the independently wealthy individual with money to burn and no need for profitability: if there is no profit, there is no game.
- The F2P model shares some traits with drug dealers, give you free samples to establish a baseline rush (addiction), and then make you want more, and more powerful effects. Again, I accept this. Nobody is holding a gun to anyone’s head forcing them to consume these products. I can’t speak for any human AD/RP farmers since I’ve heard unverified rumors that somebody might actually be holding a gun to their heads forcing them to game. And we complain about the grind…
- I’ve seen many comments about content. I suspect that developing said content is far more difficult than many people appreciate. When it comes out, the flaming starts about how crappy it is. When it doesn’t come out, the flaming starts about the lack of content or the crappy state of existing content. I suppose there is a balance in there somewhere, but for some maxed players, it will never, ever be enough. They want to be first, they want to be best, and they are kind of like the bots. They will likely never be satiated. Kudos to them for their dedication though. Capping out toons with no new content, can lead to apathy, whining, dissatisfaction, boredom, and withdrawal. Sounds too much like real life…
- End game. I hear this term bandied about, sometimes with the context that there is actually an end game. I fail to see or understand that context in an MMOG. A boxed game with a start and a finish has an end game in that you play it, and assuming you get to the end and kill Lord God King Bufu, you are done and get to watch the screen credits and bask in the glory. No endless grinding with no end in sight. There might be sequels/prequels, but they are issued as complete packages (and maybe some DLCs as well). MMOs are expected to keep things going ad infinitum and to keep things cool, and awesome, and smexy. A tall order I say, perhaps even impossible. All great empires have been trampled into dust so far as I know. If you want to be Ethel Merman, and think, or know, that you can do MMORPGs better than the rest… well, what are you waiting for? The gaming world may very well be ready for the next WoW, or Dota 2 or Counter-Strike and you can be LGKB and prove to all the clueless gaming execs of the world that you did in fact do it better.
- Leveling… probably as many opinions on this as there are people playing. Point being, nobody has the absolute truth they can impose on anyone else about what is the “right” pace of leveling. For some, being max level with max gear within a week of playing, is 6.5 days too long. For others getting there when they get there is ok. Most people are likely in between. I certainly do not presume to know exactly how quickly I should be leveling, let alone dictate to anyone else (or the devs) what that rate should be. But there is one salient factor that could be considered. If you level faster than content is delivered, undesirable things can happen. Same goes if it takes many months or years to get to a point where you can do higher level content. It is not lost on me that when I started playing nearly 2 years ago, starting from scratch took considerably longer to progress than if I start a toon now with all the benefits my account confers. While I think would like to progress faster than I am now, I am not dissatisfied with where my toons are now. It gives me something to work towards.
- I have "invested" what I consider to be a fair amount on the game, and if I was more sensible with my disposable income I'd probably be doing better things with it. But then, maybe the marginal utility of burning my dollars elsewhere is not as high. Does that make me a wallet warrior? Dunno, but if it helps keep the lights on and the electrons flowing, that's my choice. I am far from an elite player. I am probably a mid-tier to upper mid-tier player (3.1k IL on my main) just chugging along, making bad jokes and puns, and doing the grind, which as has been stated, is not the most pleasant thing to do. And yet, we who are in game, do it.
people arnt going to sell for less then they bought stuff for in a depresion unless they have a family to feed ext which dosnt exist in online games. i think the big disconnect between people on forums is some think that cause they are earning less people will fell bad for them and sell what they have for less which call me a cynic but i dont see happening its not like you have to pay mooring fees on a horn of lostmauth ect.
assuming you play one char and at a conservative estimate it costs 30mill ad to get all your gear fully built thats 1250 days of geting your 24k in 4 or 5 maps that whole time....
i think theres factory workers in china that would laugh at us
i was enjoying playing this game solo now you have screwed me royally i have put a lot of time into this game now i won't bother to play anymore because i can't earn ad anymore thank's for nothing
0
silverkeltMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,235Arc User
people arnt going to sell for less then they bought stuff for in a depresion unless they have a family to feed ext which dosnt exist in online games. i think the big disconnect between people on forums is some think that cause they are earning less people will fell bad for them and sell what they have for less which call me a cynic but i dont see happening its not like you have to pay mooring fees on a horn of lostmauth ect.
assuming you play one char and at a conservative estimate it costs 30mill ad to get all your gear fully built thats 1250 days of geting your 24k in 4 or 5 maps that whole time....
i think theres factory workers in china that would laugh at us
Supply and demand items have lost 50% of their value, at the very least. Zen market items are around 20-25% loss total.
The only items that retain any value, but are the hardest to sale atm is clearly cost gating items. Enchants past 8+ and weapon/armour past lesser.
Everything else has to adjust to thew new vectors. Your thinking of this wrong, AD at the moment has more value, your not loosing anything. Other then items that are cost gated.
0
theycallmetomuMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,861Arc User
edited September 2015
Yeah, the problem is that a large percentage of the items are fixed cost items.
If anything, the fall in price of dragon eggs has actually allowed me to start making gemmed exquisite elemental shirt/pants again. Granted, the margins are super thin, but since I make my own Unified Elements, I'm still getting some output from my profession slots.
I am on board with this change completely. With my limited game time, the only way I have been able to afford anything is by having a "Leadership Army" and that turned into a catch-22. All my available time each day was spent working Leadership. With these changes, I will be able to stop my "leadership army" and instead spend that 30-90 minutes actually playing the game AND earning AD.
I feel the pros definitely out-weight the cons and while yes there will be upset folks that can no longer rake in near endless AD (like me), what this does is turn the game economy back on track to what it should be. I feel too that these changes will allow far more people will be able to enjoy the game than those upset. Especially new and returning players. This sounds great to me. Looking forward to actually being able to play the game and not work it.
I would suggest 2 things restore daily and hourly quest back to way they were and these simple changes
Restore dungeon hr give 3k ad in chest and 3k ad from completion total 6 k AD PVP 1k AD per match complete 4 matches quest get bonus 4k ad total 8k ad max daily. Then get seal of triumph and 4k ad for win of PVP like before.
Restore skirmish hr give 1500 AD per skirmish for 4500ad max and 4500 AD bonus for completion
this would give over achievers a daily Ad rough AD of 27k ad 3 over max refine any way but just doing as before change still 20k AD
restore ad to leadership with changes 1st 1 leadership per class with max per account 5 classes (Each Must be a diferent Clas IE HR<CW<GF<GWF<TR)other words max 5 leadership setups per account this way all players can play the character class they want and have AD to grow each.
2ndTo fix ad Bot solution and have players in game. 1 character from Account must complete any combo of the above IE 1 dungeon run and reward and 4 PVP matches and reward or 1 dungeon and reward and run 3 skirmishes and get reward this will generate reward of total of leadership for account coffer not player assigned
you must remember to do 2 of 3 dailies a day to collect 5 tunes of leadership @around 18k ad per tune generates 18k ad x4 +24k equals a total income max @ 96 k AD max but you will see far less going out in AD due to not all have that many classes any way. LAST also would have the ability to do leadership on Gateway for us who work
No one legit should have a problem with this it solves issue of grinding complaining. Issue of I can play just one toon a day and support all my others.
I am sorry for those who played by the rules of PW and lost the leadership but we needed something to fix the leadership Issue. This will help the economy and give solo players a hand also I play solo and might level a 2nd toon if thes changes were in place and I would defiantly spend money to give it a good kick start in game to keep from grinding 70 levels
jhp
0
silverkeltMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,235Arc User
I am on board with this change completely. With my limited game time, the only way I have been able to afford anything is by having a "Leadership Army" and that turned into a catch-22. All my available time each day was spent working Leadership. With these changes, I will be able to stop my "leadership army" and instead spend that 30-90 minutes actually playing the game AND earning AD.
I feel the pros definitely out-weight the cons and while yes there will be upset folks that can no longer rake in near endless AD (like me), what this does is turn the game economy back on track to what it should be. I feel too that these changes will allow far more people will be able to enjoy the game than those upset. Especially new and returning players. This sounds great to me. Looking forward to actually being able to play the game and not work it.
+1 agreed!
Wait a second here.. Zeb was wrong and here is the reason why, THEY (cryptic) removed the profession from Gateway, before that, we could do our leadership during lunch-breaks or ten mins while waiting on a conference call to log in. I loved it, when I was on the road, it worked wonders for me back then! I loved the feature.
It took VERY little in game time until recently .
Im sorry but that statement from him is just plain wrong and he will admit to using a army as well.
Again, I go back to costing.. costing , costing. Not AD.. fix the costing please.
I won't pretend to have read through all 60+ pages of this thread, but it kinda sucks doing HEs in the stronghold since you can't earn AD there and for people that have limited play time adding AD to stronghold events should be a priority. Have it somewhat mirror the influence rewards in that 150 influence = 1500 AD, 120 influence = 1200 AD, etc down to 20 influence = 200 AD. So 4000 AD for a round of stronghold HEs wouldn't be game breaking IMO.
Dual spec is off topic, but I basically agree. You should be able to easily customize your character to different scenarios. At absolute bare minimum, you should be able to keep "slot arrays" for powers, even if nothing else changes.
You should be able to easily customize your characters - period. 40k AD to transmute a lv66 item is stupid. It has no impact on the larger game economy; it has no impact on real gameplay. It's just vanity. I know vanity pays, but it's not that valuable to the players, and thus just smacks of baldfaced greed.
If you want robofarming, go play farmville or something.
ARE WE PERFECTLY CLEAR?
Rage against the zeitgeist.
0
theycallmetomuMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,861Arc User
Comments
My point is that I am not new to MMO economies.
Now to correct something, If you dont have time to farm ad dear meltzar then PAY SOME REAL MONEY. If you are in a hurry, PAY. The rest of the playerbase who dedicated their precious time get rewarded with ad, the more time u spend the more ad you get. Since leadership became a plague, the ad rewards (BoE items, Gmops etc) were removed to balance out the Leadership bots. But still if u run enough you push your luck to the limit and get good ad. You will not get tens of millions but you will surely get enough.
I have three characters. I don't have time to upgrade them all thanks to these new changes. Now. Why should I pay so much money (run the math, going by the in-house system, it's about 400$ to upgrade an artifact weapon, under ideal circumstances) that I could buy a brand new computer, when I have no reason to suspect Cryptic won't just turn around and render my massive investment invalid with no warning and no compensation for the money invested?
Answer: I shouldn't.
Again. We don't object to the removal of the leadership AD in and of itself. We object to the removal of it in what is clearly an at best knee-jerk unplanned attempt to squeeze more real life cash out of us while giving us nothing else in return (such as adjusting the time of the leadership tasks, giving us better alternative rewards etc) while giving us a comparative pittance in return that requires us to make the game a second job (I ran a dungeon last night. Second time through, TOS, and got 75AD for my trouble. With nary a sign of the 3K bonus I was promised, indicating they either flat out lied to me or they moved forward with a buggy, hastily implemented plan with very little testing done to make sure it actually freaking worked*).
*Frankly, my money is on the latter. I generally believe that it is best not to ascribe to malice that which can be explained by incompetence, and the current dev team is clearly not the sharpest blades in the armory, if Mod 6 was anything to go by, but there's a bitter cynic in me that won't let me forget that Cryptic has made bald-face lies to its customer base before in this very game, and pulled off a doozy of one during the Second Year Anniversary.
but bots were just the excuse the real reason is they want to make anyone that wants to have top 10% gear pay $4000
because lets face it it it takes about 30 million AD to buy all your artifacts(the best artys on there own are 9-15million, the better perfect+ rank weapon enchantments are 5-10mill AD ) upgrade all your enchantments, if your a bit patient and wait for double periods,
at 24k a day thats 1250 days worth of daily refining.
Goatshark's statement here is a bit of a fallacy to begin with. Without reference to relatives like time and other factors, we are already given the assumption that players will be making more AD in a given day. As it is, this is not true. In the future we are not even certain of other changes, diamond sinks, bugged skirmishes. Even the dwindling player base.
You simply cannot make the guarantee that goatshark made..... And think again if you want to highlight the "should" part, since the eye catching bolded part does not include it. If you want your words not to be twisted, start off by leveling with people and telling the straight honest truth. not a fairytale dreamt up by some pixie dev. As far as twisting words i hardly see why cryptic/pwe/you would expect a level playing field as this discussion goes when in fact a level playing field was never provided to begin with. The very fact that the dev post looks like the product of a spin doctors effort to say "we are taking diamonds out of leadership". Throw in some promises of a more stable economy and some half baked numbers of how much we could be getting per pve/pvp run is the reason why so many people are upset.
I'll even point out again.... the launcher on tuesday had an over glorified advertisement for stronghold seige being patched in that day. No word on Leadership changes going live. If you cannot admit that looked shady aswell then less respect to this game and company, much less. And percentage of people in game that knew about the changes versus people that didn't know because they don't go to the forums? I think from last week first day this discussion went up would be 30% didn't know versus a 60% did know give or take 10% either way. still at best 20% did not seem to know what was going. Do you want to lose even 20% of your players? How about 20% less profit for the game? in zone chat thursday/friday "wait whats this talk about no diamonds in leadership?" was common . Would have been better for players if leadership change was announced in launcher: "Important news about leadership profession, click to read discussion". not that hard to link.
As for your arguement about apples and oranges, both are fruit. Fruit in this case: diamonds. Leadership, you get diamonds. RP Farm, get rp items which are then listed in AH to be sold for..... diamonds. End result? diamonds!. Bots in skirmishes/dungeons/pvp afking? diamonds!! not that hard to understand, unless your rigidity on the subject results in the proverbial horse blinders being put on.
As it stands, i like many others was conned into getting vip. 57 days left on it. Only reason for me to log now is to collect my vastly useless key and open a lockbox to get my 2 tarmalune bar average and HAMSTER booster pack.
HA! "twisting my words" Announcement VIP Access!! get an enchanted key a day per account!
*not advertised*Significantly reduced rewards out of lockboxes due to VIP rewarded daily key *not advertised*
amirite?
That said, it appears selling blue drops from normal content is not entirely without dividends.
… All that being said, I do sill think they should give out a flatter, fairer rate of rAD rewards - certainly during CTA events; building a fat stockpile was fun, and I've still got leftovers to nibble on - and it did get me one pirate tricorn.
Rage against the zeitgeist.
i sujest you see howmany african tribesmen are big players in the real world stock market unless your starting with a hoard
i would more likely say that your guild masters desperatly trying to keep members from leaving and thats the best he could come up with
Rage against the zeitgeist.
Observations:
- Bots, RP farmers, and their ilk, exist because they fill a need and it is profitable, else they would not be doing it.
- People buy from said Bots and their ilk because it fills a need. There are numerous reasons for this, among them: laziness, greed, impatience, a need for instant gratification and advancement, not enough time or money in real life to achieve desired goals within the “official” structure, prices are perceived to be too high or are artificially set (price controls) thereby causing distortions and triggering end run behavior, and the list goes on…
- Any game “income” earning system that does not require effort (save pressing a few buttons), impose character-centric limitations, is largely passive, and is accepted if not outright encouraged by the supplier of that income, can be coopted and done far more efficiently by bots and macros than by real people. Whether this system is good, bad, or indifferent on a virtual economy is a topic for a different discussion. To reference a song first sung by Ethel Merman (showing my age here), “Anything You Can Do (I can bot better).” Botters and RP farmers within the existing system could generate/aggregate AD and RP in a way no human could. To use a more modern reference from the first Terminator movie: “Listen, and understand! That Bot/Farmer is out there! It can't be bargained with. It can't be reasoned with. It doesn't feel pity, or remorse, or fear. And it absolutely will not stop, ever, until you are dead.” Actually, it will keep doing it even after you are dead…
- One thing I’ve learned about MMOs is they generally share at least one goal: to separate your money from you in some way. I fully support this because absent the independently wealthy individual with money to burn and no need for profitability: if there is no profit, there is no game.
- The F2P model shares some traits with drug dealers, give you free samples to establish a baseline rush (addiction), and then make you want more, and more powerful effects. Again, I accept this. Nobody is holding a gun to anyone’s head forcing them to consume these products. I can’t speak for any human AD/RP farmers since I’ve heard unverified rumors that somebody might actually be holding a gun to their heads forcing them to game. And we complain about the grind…
- I’ve seen many comments about content. I suspect that developing said content is far more difficult than many people appreciate. When it comes out, the flaming starts about how crappy it is. When it doesn’t come out, the flaming starts about the lack of content or the crappy state of existing content. I suppose there is a balance in there somewhere, but for some maxed players, it will never, ever be enough. They want to be first, they want to be best, and they are kind of like the bots. They will likely never be satiated. Kudos to them for their dedication though. Capping out toons with no new content, can lead to apathy, whining, dissatisfaction, boredom, and withdrawal. Sounds too much like real life…
- End game. I hear this term bandied about, sometimes with the context that there is actually an end game. I fail to see or understand that context in an MMOG. A boxed game with a start and a finish has an end game in that you play it, and assuming you get to the end and kill Lord God King Bufu, you are done and get to watch the screen credits and bask in the glory. No endless grinding with no end in sight. There might be sequels/prequels, but they are issued as complete packages (and maybe some DLCs as well). MMOs are expected to keep things going ad infinitum and to keep things cool, and awesome, and smexy. A tall order I say, perhaps even impossible. All great empires have been trampled into dust so far as I know. If you want to be Ethel Merman, and think, or know, that you can do MMORPGs better than the rest… well, what are you waiting for? The gaming world may very well be ready for the next WoW, or Dota 2 or Counter-Strike and you can be LGKB and prove to all the clueless gaming execs of the world that you did in fact do it better.
- Leveling… probably as many opinions on this as there are people playing. Point being, nobody has the absolute truth they can impose on anyone else about what is the “right” pace of leveling. For some, being max level with max gear within a week of playing, is 6.5 days too long. For others getting there when they get there is ok. Most people are likely in between. I certainly do not presume to know exactly how quickly I should be leveling, let alone dictate to anyone else (or the devs) what that rate should be. But there is one salient factor that could be considered. If you level faster than content is delivered, undesirable things can happen. Same goes if it takes many months or years to get to a point where you can do higher level content. It is not lost on me that when I started playing nearly 2 years ago, starting from scratch took considerably longer to progress than if I start a toon now with all the benefits my account confers. While I think would like to progress faster than I am now, I am not dissatisfied with where my toons are now. It gives me something to work towards.
- I have "invested" what I consider to be a fair amount on the game, and if I was more sensible with my disposable income I'd probably be doing better things with it. But then, maybe the marginal utility of burning my dollars elsewhere is not as high. Does that make me a wallet warrior? Dunno, but if it helps keep the lights on and the electrons flowing, that's my choice. I am far from an elite player. I am probably a mid-tier to upper mid-tier player (3.1k IL on my main) just chugging along, making bad jokes and puns, and doing the grind, which as has been stated, is not the most pleasant thing to do. And yet, we who are in game, do it.
That’s it for now. Take care, be well, game on.
-Sarge
assuming you play one char and at a conservative estimate it costs 30mill ad to get all your gear fully built thats 1250 days of geting your 24k in 4 or 5 maps that whole time....
i think theres factory workers in china that would laugh at us
The only items that retain any value, but are the hardest to sale atm is clearly cost gating items. Enchants past 8+ and weapon/armour past lesser.
Everything else has to adjust to thew new vectors. Your thinking of this wrong, AD at the moment has more value, your not loosing anything. Other then items that are cost gated.
If anything, the fall in price of dragon eggs has actually allowed me to start making gemmed exquisite elemental shirt/pants again. Granted, the margins are super thin, but since I make my own Unified Elements, I'm still getting some output from my profession slots.
- stop putting your money in NW
- quit the game which is an extension of the previous point.
Wait for the next pwe financial report and let's see what happen
Oltreverso guild leader
Maga Othelma - DC | Svalvolo - SW | Dente Avvelenato- GWF
Rage against the zeitgeist.
Restore dungeon hr give 3k ad in chest and 3k ad from completion total 6 k AD
PVP 1k AD per match complete 4 matches quest get bonus 4k ad total 8k ad max daily. Then get seal of triumph and 4k ad for win of PVP like before.
Restore skirmish hr give 1500 AD per skirmish for 4500ad max and 4500 AD bonus for completion
this would give over achievers a daily Ad rough AD of 27k ad 3 over max refine any way
but just doing as before change still 20k AD
restore ad to leadership with changes
1st 1 leadership per class with max per account 5 classes (Each Must be a diferent Clas IE HR<CW<GF<GWF<TR)other words max 5 leadership setups per account this way all players can play the character class they want and have AD to grow each.
2ndTo fix ad Bot solution and have players in game. 1 character from Account must complete any combo of the above IE 1 dungeon run and reward and 4 PVP matches and reward or 1 dungeon and reward and run 3 skirmishes and get reward this will generate reward of total of leadership for account coffer not player assigned
you must remember to do 2 of 3 dailies a day to collect 5 tunes of leadership @around 18k ad per tune generates 18k ad x4 +24k equals a total income max @ 96 k AD max but you will see far less going out in AD due to not all have that many classes any way. LAST also would have the ability to do leadership on Gateway for us who work
No one legit should have a problem with this it solves issue of grinding complaining. Issue of I can play just one toon a day and support all my others.
I am sorry for those who played by the rules of PW and lost the leadership but we needed something to fix the leadership Issue. This will help the economy and give solo players a hand also I play solo and might level a 2nd toon if thes changes were in place and I would defiantly spend money to give it a good kick start in game to keep from grinding 70 levels
jhp
It took VERY little in game time until recently .
Im sorry but that statement from him is just plain wrong and he will admit to using a army as well.
Again, I go back to costing.. costing , costing. Not AD.. fix the costing please.
All the AD sinks need to be reduced big time. Especially 50K Appearance changes... 50K? That should be gold just like removing enchantments.
And dont get me started about how this game doesn't let you dual spec your character (especially playing a Tank as my main.)
Vell Crowe
Vell Crowe's Soulbinder Damnation SW build
Rage against the zeitgeist.