Each day that goes by without them telling us a reasonable way to progress our characters is another day where more people are getting angrier and many are leaving. I really hope they have the rest of their plan ready and inform us soon. Or they're the only ones that will finally lose.
This in spades!!! Get on here and talk to us like we are adults, and not some toddler adolescents that need to be told the "way of things" (this is the issue I have with the mods on here as well, always talking down to people like we are petulant children) .... You come on here and dump this really crappy announcement on us, and then vanish....
I will say that people need not blame Cryptic as much for this as PWE.... I have played Forsaken World and PWI and Star Trek Online..... PWE are the people that brought you the $1200 enhancement stone in Forsaken World and people bought it, ALOT of people did (I forgot if it was a stone or a pack or what, but it was $1200 cash value if I remember right)
As long as we pay and play this game.... they will keep it up.... Heck, I am just as guilty, I wanted to take advantage of this 2x's weekend I dropped cash again when I said I wouldn't.... and they love every minute of it.... /sigh
They'll need to hang on to a handful of players with bottomless wallets then, as the majority will stop playing the game if they continue in the direction they're currently heading.
maybe not just fire, but Hasbro could revoke liscense contract because it is ruining the reputation. i dont understand these devs and business managers doing more harm than rather fighting the bots since they take big slice of cut from Cryptic, and they are the ones who voliated CoC and EULA, not the players. again, i wonder what the devs are doing, are they driving this game into the MMO Graveyard? so they can get unemployment check? no, i would forbid them, if i am CEO of other game firm, i wouldnt hire them, i would blacklist those. i would hire unemployed programmers from Kingdom of Kaldimar, those work for Studio 38 did very well and almost flawless/bug free game, they all have lost and most are unpaid since Studio 38 went bankrupted.
Note to those current dev team, to save your carreer, please listen to most players, but not just to niche "favs" group, everyone is different, some seem cant play the way some used to play before mod 6 and many just had given up and sick of waiting for 4-6 months, and all they did by waiting when they log to do invokings, and you just announced to be taken away and replace with something not favorable to some, it became another "nail" to bury thier hopes of seeing this game be more playable. what you all did was making too many bad calls instead of redoing Sharandar, Dread Ring, and Icewind to reduce difficulties, ignore those fanboys at all cost. why make game too hard? that is the biggest wall that some players cant overcome, some have disabilities.
right now, difficulties still too hard, and still getting one shotted, and it cost me over 50 gold coins and more than 70 health kits wasted last week, and this week i am avoiding dungeons and skirmish and only recover small amount back and still trying hard to recoup the cost i spent on kits. Shame on you!!!
No more nerfings!, No more take aways!!! devs, you still hadnt fix Tiamat and those dang cheating legion devils still oneshotting and way too much blinkings and over-excessive flankings, also sick of "Mirror moves/counter runs" whenever i make surprised or unexpected sudden move, they seem to read my mind in advanced. gosh, i really hate it! so, this mean there is no way to be unpredictable to fool these mobs, it seem they have higher AI base. it is very frustrating, and it is suppose to be a game that meant to be fun to play. so far, it isnt.
I have been playing Neverwinter for way more then a year. It had it upsides and downsides and even when i did not agree with some of the decisions from the developers i still respected them and generally thought they are either thought through or at least reasonable.
The change regarding astral diamonds gain from leadership profession proposed by the Neverwinter developer Team and posted by Goatshark is purely wrong for a number of reasons.
I am gonna try and put the reasons here to make people discuss them, and since i still really like and am passionate about Neverwinter i am gonna try to convice as many players as possible to make Cryptic and perfect world change theirs decision even if i know its futile. I have spent a roughly 2000 Hours playing Neverwinter and explored basically all it has to offer.
Lets start with the fact that to achieve anything in Neverwinter and be considered usefull by other players in parties or guild you need to have gear, and not some easily acquirable dungeon gear, the kind of gear you need to spend Hundreds of millions of Astral Diamonds on.
Even if you buy your zen with your hard earned real life cash those are vast amounts going in dozens of thousands so the only way of getting to the top was either botting which is just wrong, exploiting other players and trade which is even more wrong and finally using Leadership as a steady time taking but rewarding way of getting your desired astral diamonds and ultimately gear in order to beacome a better player and have more fun from playing.
Not only is Goatshark saying he is going to take all the time we invested in learning what needs to be done and then doing it to achieve the goals we set out to but he is also saying he is not going to give anything in return. That kind of solution is going make Hundreds if not Thousands of Players, Including the Ones that have paid a lot to just rage quit the game, and when they are going to do that there's a really slight chance of them going back.
In perspective it does not mean increased incomes from more purchases like cryptic predicts but an economy crysis unheard of in Neverwinter that can potentially make the game just go dead with only hundreds of players; mostly botters and exploiters staying in it and Perfectworld not making any futher profit on that game. I might be exaggerating but the truth is that after reading this post many of my friends told me that they are just going to quit.
I want to Appeal to whatever development team is on the project to rethink what they are planning to do beacose i am sure that its not going to increase the company profits and as a player invested in a game i want the company to make a lot of money so they can keep providing the great content that i appreciate so mutch.
As another valid and important reason not to implement those changes i would like to say that the change is going to punish the players that are playing honestly while the cheaters/botters/exploiters are going to be rewarded for Developers inability to track the data of their own game. It should be relatively simple to see which accounts earn very increased amounts of astral diamonds in small period tables also it should be relatively simple to track where they are sending their ill gotten astral diamonds to so cryptic could just ban those account in order to restore the balance. All that means that the decision delete the option to make astral diamonds from leadership is simply unjust, i think its a very important reason to consider that change again.
So considering all the arguments and more that i was not able to present beacose of the language barrier i still think that economically in both short and the long term this decision is not going to be beneficial for the company or the players.
If all of those reasons are invalid or incomplete then there is one major thing that Developers should do in order to keep the game balanced and reasonable. If your going to take away Astral Diamonds from Leadership then Please be sure to make salvageable items from Dungeons Unbound again. Before the Elemental Evil module that made salvageable items from dungeons bound almost nobody was even trying to get diamonds from leadership, everyone had a fair chance to earn diamonds by normal gameplay , so if you cant allow people to have fun and earn astral diamonds by farming leadership that they have invested and spent so mutch time to level up then at least let them make astral diamonds by farming dungeons and selling their items.
In conclusion of my chaotic post i just wanted to say that If you have not got it already then i implore you, do not implement such a radical change and if you do have to go through with it please be sure to sweeten it up by unbinding epic salvageable items so the astral diamonds market do not die out, and do remember if you stop normal people from making astral diamonds your gonna end up in a situation when they are going to be left with hundreds of thousands of astral diamonds at most while the botters will still be sitting on hundreds of millions and that is not going to lead to anything good and by that i mean the game is going to depopulate rapidly.
Another Huge request from player base would be to make developers perform a referendum among all of the game accounts it should take a week and the question could simply "Do you agree that from now on Leadership profession will not yield and Rough Astral Diamonds?" . I am quite sure that the answer of No would be propobly in around 85-99 %. I do know this is a game owned by a corporation and all of players signed agreements that stated this game does not in anyway belong to them but still in order to make a good game community invoice should be taken under heavy consideration dont you think guys?
Thank you for reading and please do hear me and a vast part of Never winter community, this change is simply "a bridge too far" and might be this games downfall. If by any means i offended or insulted anyone i am deeply sorry i just wanted to save the game i really like from what i think is going to be a catastrophe.
Scott, I work in healthcare so these analogies spring to mind. This is a bad idea, because whilst you are amputating the diseased leg (in this case with a cleaver), you're not stopping the bleeding. You haven't done your preparation by measuring up a prosthetic in advance. The patient won't be able to walk until you do.
Please consider this british military saying too. The 7 P's. Proper Planning and Preparation Prevents Pi$$ Poor Performance.
You don't seem to have planned this right. Sort the other side of the coin, which is player rewards. what you're proposing is just not good enough for the time we will invest. Especially given that you've taken a load of content out (see dungeons). Whats left isn't enough still.
Removing hourly event, might have worked when you had enough players...ill be surprised if it does now. expecting long queue times
Leadership, while no longer a major source of AD, is still a good source for XP, Gold, and loot items. All of these things are valuable to regular players, but less so to botters............
Scott Shicoff Lead Designer
Honest to goodness, have you actually looked at what comes out of those leadership boxes? gold is as another put, pretty much a throw away resource. XP supplementing 0-60 might be ok but beyond that is a drop in the ocean. bear in mind that 0-60 player wont have leadership at a decent level to make that worthwhile, and youve not done enough (if anything to the overload rewards) Loot items from the boxes are frankly worthless. look at the rank of enchants that pop from them and compare to how you've set up refinement.
You'll go ahead with this change, no doubt about that, but think more about how you manage the player's unhappiness please
I'm just a PvE player, that catch all my AD form AH/salvage. It's not much, but i achieved Rank 7/8 in my main, and puple artefacts. All that i catch now, go to AH (cuz upgrade something to legendary t is absurdly expensive, in AD and time).
What most hurt me was, after mod6, no more drops from 'dungeons' (3/6 of them T~T). This Leadership changes really dont gonna hurt me directly, cuz i dont have patience to spend my time in this profession, but reading all these reviews make me feel like a alien in this game (and for the people that REALLY BELIVE they need 3k+iLvL to make eCC in the legit way. Really?).
What do I really like to see? MANY progress BTA (Sharandar, DR, Icewind, Profession and refinement rAD>AD. Stronghold is from guilds, so, it's not 'your only progression'). Until mod6 was easy, im one weekend, cap the rAD Refinement for all the week, cuz you have drops in dungeons, you have something that really give to you rAD, and something to sell in AH. For me, this is the 'right' way to make money in this game. Now, you just have... drops in t1 for AH, and 2(4?) gears (exclude ST Gear). No buffs in gears, no difference, """no builds"""... I was very simplistic, but that's how the game looks, compared to what it was.
But i'm just a alien. Let the Rage of the Leadership Army continue!
By the numbers part 2. With new changes the time and cost to upgrade a single enchant to rank 12.
TLDR: Most of the cost to rank enchants are fixed. Using AH where applicable it would take a player 77.9 days to rank up to a rank 12 enchant. Using bazaar with VIP it would take 99.27 days to rank up a rank 5 to a rank 12 enchant. Using bazaar no ViP it would take 128.5 days to rank up a rank 5 to a rank 12 in the new proposed system!
I am going to do this based on a player farming 32 rank 5 which at 70 is very easy to do! Yes folks it takes 32 I am using rank 4 enchants of the same type to get the 2 x bonus in my calculations at a price of 1 800 ad per stack! Reminder if bots leave the game you will be unable to purchase cheap rank 4s or mops. I assumed free preservation wards from praying!
Step 1: 32 (rank 5) enchants to 16 (rank 6)
3 240 rp x 16 = 51480 RP 51480 RP / 26370 = 1.95 stacks 1.95 stacks x 1800 rp = 3 513 ad 16 MoP x 2727 (ah price) = 43 636 ad or 16 Mop x 18 750 ad (bazaar vip 12) = 300 000 ad or 16 mop x 25 000 ad (bazaar) =400 000 ad Total AD using AH = 43 636 ad + 3 513 ad = 47 149 ad Total AD using Bazaar (vip 12) = 300 000 ad + 3 513 ad = 303 513 ad Total AD using Bazaar (no vip) = 400 000 ad + 3 513 ad = 403 513 ad AH = 47 149 ad / 24 000 ad = 1.96 days Vip 12 = 303 513 ad / 24 000 ad = 12.65 days No ViP = 403 513 ad / 24 000 ad = 16.81 days
Step 2: 16 (rank 6) to 8 (rank 7)
12 960 rp to rank a 6 up x 8 = 103 680 rp 103 680 rp / 26370 rp = 3.93 stacks of rank 4 to upgrade 3.93 x 1800 AD = 7077 AD for refining stones. 16 MoP x 2727 (ah price) = 43 636 ad or 16 Mop x 18 750 ad (bazaar vip 12) = 300 000 ad or 16 mop x 25 000 ad (bazaar) =400 000 ad Total AD using AH = 43 636 ad + 7077 ad = 50 713 ad Total AD using Bazaar (vip 12) = 300 000 ad + 7 077 ad = 307 077 ad Total AD using Bazaar (no vip) = 400 000 ad + 7 077 ad = 407 077 ad AH = 50 713 ad / 24 000 ad = 2.11 days Vip 12 = 307 077 ad / 24 000 ad = 12.79 days No ViP = 407 077 ad / 24 000 ad = 16.96 days
Step 3: 8 (rank 7) to 4 rank 8's
34 560 rp x 4 is 138 240 rp 138 240rp / 26370 rp = 5.242 stacks rank 4 5.246 stacks x 1800 ad = 9 436 AD 4 gmop x 75000 ad (vip 12) = 300 000 ad or 4 gmop x 100 000 ad (non vip) = 400 000 ad total AD vip = 309436 or total ad non vip = 409436 Vip 12 = 309436 / 24 000 ad = 12 .83 days Non Vip = 409436 /24 000 ad = 17.05 days
Step 4: 4 rank 8 to 2 rank 9
103 680 rp x 2 = 207 360 rp 207 360 rp / 26 370 rp = 7.86 stacks rank 4 7.86 stacks x 1800 ad = 14 154 AD 4 gmop x 75000 ad (vip 12) = 300 000 ad or 4 gmop x 100 000 ad (non vip) = 400 000 ad Total AD Vip = 314 154 or Total AD non vip = 414 154 Vip 12 = 314 154 ad /24 000 ad = 13.08 days Non Vip = 414 154 ad / 24 000 ad = 17.25 days
Step 5: 2 (rank 9) to 1 (rank 10)
311 040 rp x 1 = 311 040 rp 311 040 rp / 26 370 rp = 11.79 stacks of rank 4 enchantments 11.79 x 1800 ad = 21 231 ad 2 gmop x 75 000 ad (vip 12) = 150 000 ad or 2 gmop x 100 000 ad (non vip) = 200 000 ad Total AD Vip = 171 231 ad or total AD non ViP = 221 231 Vip 12 = 171 231 ad / 24 000 ad = 7.13 days Non ViP = 221 231 ad / 24 000 ad = 9.2 days
Step 6: 1 (Rank 10) to 1 (Rank 11)
622 080 rp 622 080 rp / 26 370 rp = 23.59 stacks 23.59 stacks x 1800 = 42 462 AD 5 gmop x 75 000 ad (vip 12) = 375 000 ad or 5 gmop x 100 000 ad (no vip) = 500 000 ad 1 mark of power = 737 ad current AH 1 mark of stability = 656 ad current AH 1 mark of union = 1090 ad current Ah Total AD Vip = 419 945 ad or Total AD no ViP = 545 298 ad Vip 12 = 419 945 ad / 24 000 ad = 17.49 days non VIP = 545 298 ad / 24 000 ad = 22.72 days
Step 7: 1 (Rank 11) to 1 (Rank 12)
1 088 640 rp 1 088 640 rp / 26 370 rp = 41.28 stacks 41.28 stacks x 1800 ad = 74 309 AD 5 gmop x 75 000 ad (vip 12) = 375 000 ad or 5 gmop x 100 000 ad (no vip) = 500 000 ad 1 greater mark of power = 48 000 ad current ah price 1 greater mark of stability = 8 900 ad current ah price 1 greater mark of union = 53 000 ad current ah price Total AD Vip = 559 209 ad or Total 684 209 AD no ViP = ad Vip 12 = 559 209 ad / 24 000 ad = 23.30 days non VIP = 684 209 ad / 24 000 ad = 28.51 days
Total days using AH to go from 32 rank 5's to 1 rank 12 = 77.9 days at a total cost of 1 868 600 AD Total days using bazaar and vip 12 = 99.27 days at a total cost of 2 382 480 AD Total days using bazaar and no vip = 128.5 days at a total cost of 3 084 000 AD
To do all 18 enchants
Total days using AH = 77.9 days x 18 = 1402 days or 3.8 years at a cost of 33 634 800. Total days using bazaar and vip 12 = 99.27 day x 18 = 1 786 days or 4.9 years at a cost of 42 884 640 Total days using bazaar and no vip = 128.5 days x 18 = 2313 days or 6.33 years at a cost of 55 512 00
Reminder if the Bots go (good riddance) no more purchasing stacks of 99 rank 4 enchants for cheap as the demand will far outweigh the supply.
Any of the Dev team care to go over these numbers please to ensure I am correct thank you.
You can't argue against math.
Just call me Rod. Member of Grievance! CW: Rodrant Turnbul TR: Rodran DC: Rodrat GWF: ROARdrant TurnBRAWL Other GWF: Shieldrant HR: Bowdrant SW: Wardrant Turnlock (my main!) OP: Paladrant (on Preview!)
I'm just a PvE player, that catch all my AD form AH/salvage. It's not much, but i achieved Rank 7/8 in my main, and puple artefacts. All that i catch now, go to AH (cuz upgrade something to legendary t is absurdly expensive, in AD and time).
What most hurt me was, after mod6, no more drops from 'dungeons' (3/6 of them T~T). This Leadership changes really dont gonna hurt me directly, cuz i dont have patience to spend my time in this profession, but reading all these reviews make me feel like a alien in this game (and for the people that REALLY BELIVE they need 3k+iLvL to make eCC in the legit way. Really?).
What do I really like to see? MANY progress BTA (Sharandar, DR, Icewind, Profession and refinement rAD>AD. Stronghold is from guilds, so, it's not 'your only progression'). Until mod6 was easy, im one weekend, cap the rAD Refinement for all the week, cuz you have drops in dungeons, you have something that really give to you rAD, and something to sell in AH. For me, this is the 'right' way to make money in this game. Now, you just have... drops in t1 for AH, and 2(4?) gears (exclude ST Gear). No buffs in gears, no difference, """no builds"""... I was very simplistic, but that's how the game looks, compared to what it was.
But i'm just a alien. Let the Rage of the Leadership Army continue! </p>
Well I too am PvE, but I fully understand this rage and anger, even if you don't. I only do Leadership in 6 to 8 hour blocks and in total they only net me an average of 400 AD per hour per day (9600 AD) Without the AD the crafting system is just worthless. Friday I plan to mail my resources to a friend and let them feed it to that clanky box in their guild.
Since April of this year, they have made one BAD decision after another. Removed dungeons and made the remaining dungeons require 3 players. I liked running solo dungeons. Not any more. Took away Foundry hour, took away the Foundry, took away a lot of stuff that makes this game "enjoyable" and gave us Strongholds... but alas I am not in a guild and have been told what the guild grinding is all about.
As I type this, I am downloading another game that recently went free to play, I am going to try out this weekend. I am a retired person and I get a check each month. I spend money on games because I enjoy playing them. But this game needs to revert to the way it was before April to really be "enjoyable" again. I will pop on and off to look for the Foundry or anything to return. As many other authors have unfinished works in progress and I don't like leaving things half done. Because the Foundry outage, I took up editing the official NWO wiki but sadly the thing is a mess and there are so few people adding information.
To me, this is just another removal of something people like to do, and not give anything back. I really don't know what they will remove next. There isn't much left. Most of my friends have already took off over a month ago, I don't plan to leave the game, but there isn't much to do until they get things together and put the Foundry back up online. I noticed Scott didn't mention the Foundry at all in his posting. So I guess until then, I am on sabbatical?
Suggestion to kill bots and make money in one fell swoop!
1. Get rid of the AD to zen feature. No more turning AD to zen! Everything in the zen shop will require $.
I actually mentioned I would prefer this in a seperate thread that asked what I use my AD for. I don't bother converting AD to Zen. I'm sure it would be unpopular with some, but the reality is that as long as that option to convert AD to Zen is in the game, there will be botters. I don't really see in game prices dropping unless the set prices are dropped. This actually will make the gold sellers comodity even more valuable, supply and demand, simple as that. I'd prefer they let me use my AD to develop my characters than nuke the whole profession lineup.
I personally won't purchase from the 3rd party sellers, it just rubs me wrong... but I can see some who feel deeply ripped off by the incredibly poor way that this has been handled turning to that as an alternative.
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banzaikittenMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 220Arc User
realy?? i played before mod5 10 times or more foundry's ,after that i simply stoped due the insane mob strengts. now this..
Well, as we can see, this is decided and done, and nothing we will say in here, will have any impact next week. Now all we can do is sit back, relax, and let them have it... When the player numbers drop like crazy after this change, the people ordering it might come to their senses, and they might be more willing to actually do something for the game and not against it.
unabletodisplay said:I think this AD ting is a Cryptic / PWE management issue ... I don't think devs have much say in the direction of the game. All the developers / programmers should be accountable for is poor coding and testing.
You may have a point here, it's not like the developers are thinking: "I know what would be really fun to advance the game, LESS REWARD FOR PLAYERS!!! YAY!!!"
More likely it is management saying: "Maybe we can sell more zen if we make it impossible to generate large quantities of in-game currency"
Either way, Cryptic... this is what your CUSTOMERS think you are doing!
And to agree with multiple previous comments: I too have spent large quantities of money on Zen... in the thousands.. SO WTF?
Overall, it just shows, that who ever is ordering to do this, has no clue about the game and the players. More players will just leave, or stop spending any money at all. And at some point, even the "hardcore" fans will stop playing/paying and move on.
Suggestion to kill bots and make money in one fell swoop!
1. Get rid of the AD to zen feature. No more turning AD to zen! Everything in the zen shop will require $.
I actually mentioned I would prefer this in a seperate thread that asked what I use my AD for. I don't bother converting AD to Zen. I'm sure it would be unpopular with some, but the reality is that as long as that option to convert AD to Zen is in the game, there will be botters. I don't really see in game prices dropping unless the set prices are dropped. This actually will make the gold sellers comodity even more valuable, supply and demand, simple as that. I'd prefer they let me use my AD to develop my characters than nuke the whole profession lineup.
I personally won't purchase from the 3rd party sellers, it just rubs me wrong... but I can see some who feel deeply ripped off by the incredibly poor way that this has been handled turning to that as an alternative.
Removing the Zen exchange would achieve absolutely nothing. Botters have existed in every single MMO I've played in the last sixteen years or so. If there's any means at all to trade in-game assets for in-game currency/real cash, they'll exist.
As far as I've seen there are two primary types; the 'lone wolf' who wants the best of everything without participating in the huge grinds typically associated with MMOs.
Then there's basically "organized crime" where botters work on an industrial scale to farm anything they can to sell to players for real world cash, commonly known as 'gold sellers.' These were often referred to as 'Chinese gold sellers' in games such as WoW, where:
"Rich players from developed countries, wishing to save many hours of playing time, may be willing to pay substantial sums to gold farmers from developing countries."
Oh I agree there will still be botters, I've played many of those games myself. Some got to the point that players who did not run one on an offline account would essentially be annihilated and have their 'work' zero'd, or simply were not competitive. The game producers did nothing, because it had absolutely no impact on their cash shop. Pretty much why I found NW. I have no doubt that element will always be around no matter what.
I disagree that it would achieve absolutely nothing, and I should have been clearer. As long as that conduit between the in-game currency and Cryptic's revenue stream, the Zen shop, exists, it is an avenue to exploit. I don't actually believe this whole Leadership nerf is seriously to combat botting, it is intended to reduce access to those goods simply by playing the game (or playing it with a bot or armies of bots). This is why, and I am speaking only for myself, given a choice, I would prefer they just sever that link and leave leadership as is so I can use my AD to progress my characters. The way this group is rolling though, I would not be one bit surprised if they cut that off as well anyway, they just haven't come up with a way to spin doctor it.
By the numbers part 2. With new changes the time and cost to upgrade a single enchant to rank 12.
TLDR: Most of the cost to rank enchants are fixed. Using AH where applicable it would take a player 77.9 days to rank up to a rank 12 enchant. Using bazaar with VIP it would take 99.27 days to rank up a rank 5 to a rank 12 enchant. Using bazaar no ViP it would take 128.5 days to rank up a rank 5 to a rank 12 in the new proposed system!
I am going to do this based on a player farming 32 rank 5 which at 70 is very easy to do! Yes folks it takes 32 I am using rank 4 enchants of the same type to get the 2 x bonus in my calculations at a price of 1 800 ad per stack! Reminder if bots leave the game you will be unable to purchase cheap rank 4s or mops. I assumed free preservation wards from praying!
Step 1: 32 (rank 5) enchants to 16 (rank 6)
3 240 rp x 16 = 51480 RP 51480 RP / 26370 = 1.95 stacks 1.95 stacks x 1800 rp = 3 513 ad 16 MoP x 2727 (ah price) = 43 636 ad or 16 Mop x 18 750 ad (bazaar vip 12) = 300 000 ad or 16 mop x 25 000 ad (bazaar) =400 000 ad Total AD using AH = 43 636 ad + 3 513 ad = 47 149 ad Total AD using Bazaar (vip 12) = 300 000 ad + 3 513 ad = 303 513 ad Total AD using Bazaar (no vip) = 400 000 ad + 3 513 ad = 403 513 ad AH = 47 149 ad / 24 000 ad = 1.96 days Vip 12 = 303 513 ad / 24 000 ad = 12.65 days No ViP = 403 513 ad / 24 000 ad = 16.81 days
Step 2: 16 (rank 6) to 8 (rank 7)
12 960 rp to rank a 6 up x 8 = 103 680 rp 103 680 rp / 26370 rp = 3.93 stacks of rank 4 to upgrade 3.93 x 1800 AD = 7077 AD for refining stones. 16 MoP x 2727 (ah price) = 43 636 ad or 16 Mop x 18 750 ad (bazaar vip 12) = 300 000 ad or 16 mop x 25 000 ad (bazaar) =400 000 ad Total AD using AH = 43 636 ad + 7077 ad = 50 713 ad Total AD using Bazaar (vip 12) = 300 000 ad + 7 077 ad = 307 077 ad Total AD using Bazaar (no vip) = 400 000 ad + 7 077 ad = 407 077 ad AH = 50 713 ad / 24 000 ad = 2.11 days Vip 12 = 307 077 ad / 24 000 ad = 12.79 days No ViP = 407 077 ad / 24 000 ad = 16.96 days
Step 3: 8 (rank 7) to 4 rank 8's
34 560 rp x 4 is 138 240 rp 138 240rp / 26370 rp = 5.242 stacks rank 4 5.246 stacks x 1800 ad = 9 436 AD 4 gmop x 75000 ad (vip 12) = 300 000 ad or 4 gmop x 100 000 ad (non vip) = 400 000 ad total AD vip = 309436 or total ad non vip = 409436 Vip 12 = 309436 / 24 000 ad = 12 .83 days Non Vip = 409436 /24 000 ad = 17.05 days
Step 4: 4 rank 8 to 2 rank 9
103 680 rp x 2 = 207 360 rp 207 360 rp / 26 370 rp = 7.86 stacks rank 4 7.86 stacks x 1800 ad = 14 154 AD 4 gmop x 75000 ad (vip 12) = 300 000 ad or 4 gmop x 100 000 ad (non vip) = 400 000 ad Total AD Vip = 314 154 or Total AD non vip = 414 154 Vip 12 = 314 154 ad /24 000 ad = 13.08 days Non Vip = 414 154 ad / 24 000 ad = 17.25 days
Step 5: 2 (rank 9) to 1 (rank 10)
311 040 rp x 1 = 311 040 rp 311 040 rp / 26 370 rp = 11.79 stacks of rank 4 enchantments 11.79 x 1800 ad = 21 231 ad 2 gmop x 75 000 ad (vip 12) = 150 000 ad or 2 gmop x 100 000 ad (non vip) = 200 000 ad Total AD Vip = 171 231 ad or total AD non ViP = 221 231 Vip 12 = 171 231 ad / 24 000 ad = 7.13 days Non ViP = 221 231 ad / 24 000 ad = 9.2 days
Step 6: 1 (Rank 10) to 1 (Rank 11)
622 080 rp 622 080 rp / 26 370 rp = 23.59 stacks 23.59 stacks x 1800 = 42 462 AD 5 gmop x 75 000 ad (vip 12) = 375 000 ad or 5 gmop x 100 000 ad (no vip) = 500 000 ad 1 mark of power = 737 ad current AH 1 mark of stability = 656 ad current AH 1 mark of union = 1090 ad current Ah Total AD Vip = 419 945 ad or Total AD no ViP = 545 298 ad Vip 12 = 419 945 ad / 24 000 ad = 17.49 days non VIP = 545 298 ad / 24 000 ad = 22.72 days
Step 7: 1 (Rank 11) to 1 (Rank 12)
1 088 640 rp 1 088 640 rp / 26 370 rp = 41.28 stacks 41.28 stacks x 1800 ad = 74 309 AD 5 gmop x 75 000 ad (vip 12) = 375 000 ad or 5 gmop x 100 000 ad (no vip) = 500 000 ad 1 greater mark of power = 48 000 ad current ah price 1 greater mark of stability = 8 900 ad current ah price 1 greater mark of union = 53 000 ad current ah price Total AD Vip = 559 209 ad or Total 684 209 AD no ViP = ad Vip 12 = 559 209 ad / 24 000 ad = 23.30 days non VIP = 684 209 ad / 24 000 ad = 28.51 days
Total days using AH to go from 32 rank 5's to 1 rank 12 = 77.9 days at a total cost of 1 868 600 AD Total days using bazaar and vip 12 = 99.27 days at a total cost of 2 382 480 AD Total days using bazaar and no vip = 128.5 days at a total cost of 3 084 000 AD
To do all 18 enchants
Total days using AH = 77.9 days x 18 = 1402 days or 3.8 years at a cost of 33 634 800. Total days using bazaar and vip 12 = 99.27 day x 18 = 1 786 days or 4.9 years at a cost of 42 884 640 Total days using bazaar and no vip = 128.5 days x 18 = 2313 days or 6.33 years at a cost of 55 512 00
Reminder if the Bots go (good riddance) no more purchasing stacks of 99 rank 4 enchants for cheap as the demand will far outweigh the supply.
Any of the Dev team care to go over these numbers please to ensure I am correct thank you.
there is only 1 issue with your numbers since you are using 24k AD as a base, we will NO LONGER get 24k ad anymore after this change, the MOST AD we will get is 19,200 (that's the cap we can earn a day) there will be no ad from salavage, they removed AD as rewards from leadership. so your numbers are flawed based on that.
The botters are not going to just disappear, they have no reason to do so.
In fact, goldsellers will be swimming in orders for AD from next week on forward. Their AD will rise in value, and as long as they stay below the AD prices for ZEN through ZAX, they will make a nice profit. And the bots will be running wild through dungeons, skirmishes and PvP to max their AD gain to supply the increased demand.
Welcome to Neverendingbotting Online
This is a very true statement, unless for all we know. The company is in fact the ones that are "botting"! They are going to remove our means to gain AD so they can double, triple and quad up the prices of their AD they botted up. That is a bigger cash boon for them then selling VIP!
I wonder what a dev's boon tree looks like:
they probably have:
we have shanadar they have customer service we have dread ring they have nerf tree we have stronghold they have kill player base
there is only 1 issue with your numbers since you are using 24k AD as a base, we will NO LONGER get 24k ad anymore after this change, the MOST AD we will get is 19,200 (that's the cap we can earn a day) there will be no ad from salavage, they removed AD as rewards from leadership. so your numbers are flawed based on that.
Ummm, if you refer to Scott's Original post you'll see there is no change to invoke or salvage, so yes - that maths is correct.
Comments
i dont understand these devs and business managers doing more harm than rather fighting the bots since they take big slice of cut from Cryptic, and they are the ones who voliated CoC and EULA, not the players.
again, i wonder what the devs are doing, are they driving this game into the MMO Graveyard? so they can get unemployment check? no, i would forbid them, if i am CEO of other game firm, i wouldnt hire them, i would blacklist those.
i would hire unemployed programmers from Kingdom of Kaldimar, those work for Studio 38 did very well and almost flawless/bug free game, they all have lost and most are unpaid since Studio 38 went bankrupted.
Note to those current dev team, to save your carreer, please listen to most players, but not just to niche "favs" group, everyone is different, some seem cant play the way some used to play before mod 6 and many just had given up and sick of waiting for 4-6 months, and all they did by waiting when they log to do invokings, and you just announced to be taken away and replace with something not favorable to some, it became another "nail" to bury thier hopes of seeing this game be more playable.
what you all did was making too many bad calls instead of redoing Sharandar, Dread Ring, and Icewind to reduce difficulties, ignore those fanboys at all cost. why make game too hard? that is the biggest wall that some players cant overcome, some have disabilities.
right now, difficulties still too hard, and still getting one shotted, and it cost me over 50 gold coins and more than 70 health kits wasted last week, and this week i am avoiding dungeons and skirmish and only recover small amount back and still trying hard to recoup the cost i spent on kits. Shame on you!!!
No more nerfings!, No more take aways!!!
devs, you still hadnt fix Tiamat and those dang cheating legion devils still oneshotting and way too much blinkings and over-excessive flankings, also sick of "Mirror moves/counter runs" whenever i make surprised or unexpected sudden move, they seem to read my mind in advanced. gosh, i really hate it! so, this mean there is no way to be unpredictable to fool these mobs, it seem they have higher AI base.
it is very frustrating, and it is suppose to be a game that meant to be fun to play. so far, it isnt.
The change regarding astral diamonds gain from leadership profession proposed by the Neverwinter developer Team and posted by Goatshark is purely wrong for a number of reasons.
I am gonna try and put the reasons here to make people discuss them, and since i still really like and am passionate about Neverwinter i am gonna try to convice as many players as possible to make Cryptic and perfect world change theirs decision even if i know its futile.
I have spent a roughly 2000 Hours playing Neverwinter and explored basically all it has to offer.
Lets start with the fact that to achieve anything in Neverwinter and be considered usefull by other players in parties or guild you need to have gear, and not some easily acquirable dungeon gear, the kind of gear you need to spend Hundreds of millions of Astral Diamonds on.
Even if you buy your zen with your hard earned real life cash those are vast amounts going in dozens of thousands so the only way of getting to the top was either botting which is just wrong, exploiting other players and trade which is even more wrong and finally using Leadership as a steady time taking but rewarding way of getting your desired astral diamonds and ultimately gear in order to beacome a better player and have more fun from playing.
Not only is Goatshark saying he is going to take all the time we invested in learning what needs to be done and then doing it to achieve the goals we set out to but he is also saying he is not going to give anything in return.
That kind of solution is going make Hundreds if not Thousands of Players, Including the Ones that have paid a lot to just rage quit the game, and when they are going to do that there's a really slight chance of them going back.
In perspective it does not mean increased incomes from more purchases like cryptic predicts but an economy crysis unheard of in Neverwinter that can potentially make the game just go dead with only hundreds of players; mostly botters and exploiters staying in it and Perfectworld not making any futher profit on that game.
I might be exaggerating but the truth is that after reading this post many of my friends told me that they are just going to quit.
I want to Appeal to whatever development team is on the project to rethink what they are planning to do beacose i am sure that its not going to increase the company profits and as a player invested in a game i want the company to make a lot of money so they can keep providing the great content that i appreciate so mutch.
As another valid and important reason not to implement those changes i would like to say that the change is going to punish the players that are playing honestly while the cheaters/botters/exploiters are going to be rewarded for Developers inability to track the data of their own game.
It should be relatively simple to see which accounts earn very increased amounts of astral diamonds in small period tables also it should be relatively simple to track where they are sending their ill gotten astral diamonds to so cryptic could just ban those account in order to restore the balance.
All that means that the decision delete the option to make astral diamonds from leadership is simply unjust, i think its a very important reason to consider that change again.
So considering all the arguments and more that i was not able to present beacose of the language barrier i still think that economically in both short and the long term this decision is not going to be beneficial for the company or the players.
If all of those reasons are invalid or incomplete then there is one major thing that Developers should do in order to keep the game balanced and reasonable. If your going to take away Astral Diamonds from Leadership then Please be sure to make salvageable items from Dungeons Unbound again. Before the Elemental Evil module that made salvageable items from dungeons bound almost nobody was even trying to get diamonds from leadership, everyone had a fair chance to earn diamonds by normal gameplay , so if you cant allow people to have fun and earn astral diamonds by farming leadership that they have invested and spent so mutch time to level up then at least let them make astral diamonds by farming dungeons and selling their items.
In conclusion of my chaotic post i just wanted to say that If you have not got it already then i implore you, do not implement such a radical change and if you do have to go through with it please be sure to sweeten it up by unbinding epic salvageable items so the astral diamonds market do not die out, and do remember if you stop normal people from making astral diamonds your gonna end up in a situation when they are going to be left with hundreds of thousands of astral diamonds at most while the botters will still be sitting on hundreds of millions and that is not going to lead to anything good and by that i mean the game is going to depopulate rapidly.
Another Huge request from player base would be to make developers perform a referendum among all of the game accounts it should take a week and the question could simply "Do you agree that from now on Leadership profession will not yield and Rough Astral Diamonds?" . I am quite sure that the answer of No would be propobly in around 85-99 %.
I do know this is a game owned by a corporation and all of players signed agreements that stated this game does not in anyway belong to them but still in order to make a good game community invoice should be taken under heavy consideration dont you think guys?
Thank you for reading and please do hear me and a vast part of Never winter community, this change is simply "a bridge too far" and might be this games downfall.
If by any means i offended or insulted anyone i am deeply sorry i just wanted to save the game i really like from what i think is going to be a catastrophe.
panderus
Please consider this british military saying too.
The 7 P's. Proper Planning and Preparation Prevents Pi$$ Poor Performance.
You don't seem to have planned this right. Sort the other side of the coin, which is player rewards. what you're proposing is just not good enough for the time we will invest. Especially given that you've taken a load of content out (see dungeons). Whats left isn't enough still.
Removing hourly event, might have worked when you had enough players...ill be surprised if it does now. expecting long queue times Honest to goodness, have you actually looked at what comes out of those leadership boxes?
gold is as another put, pretty much a throw away resource.
XP supplementing 0-60 might be ok but beyond that is a drop in the ocean. bear in mind that 0-60 player wont have leadership at a decent level to make that worthwhile, and youve not done enough (if anything to the overload rewards)
Loot items from the boxes are frankly worthless. look at the rank of enchants that pop from them and compare to how you've set up refinement.
You'll go ahead with this change, no doubt about that, but think more about how you manage the player's unhappiness please
What most hurt me was, after mod6, no more drops from 'dungeons' (3/6 of them T~T).
This Leadership changes really dont gonna hurt me directly, cuz i dont have patience to spend my time in this profession, but reading all these reviews make me feel like a alien in this game (and for the people that REALLY BELIVE they need 3k+iLvL to make eCC in the legit way. Really?).
What do I really like to see? MANY progress BTA (Sharandar, DR, Icewind, Profession and refinement rAD>AD. Stronghold is from guilds, so, it's not 'your only progression').
Until mod6 was easy, im one weekend, cap the rAD Refinement for all the week, cuz you have drops in dungeons, you have something that really give to you rAD, and something to sell in AH. For me, this is the 'right' way to make money in this game. Now, you just have... drops in t1 for AH, and 2(4?) gears (exclude ST Gear). No buffs in gears, no difference, """no builds"""... I was very simplistic, but that's how the game looks, compared to what it was.
But i'm just a alien. Let the Rage of the Leadership Army continue!
CW: Rodrant Turnbul
TR: Rodran
DC: Rodrat
GWF: ROARdrant TurnBRAWL
Other GWF: Shieldrant
HR: Bowdrant
SW: Wardrant Turnlock (my main!)
OP: Paladrant (on Preview!)
Since April of this year, they have made one BAD decision after another. Removed dungeons and made the remaining dungeons require 3 players. I liked running solo dungeons. Not any more. Took away Foundry hour, took away the Foundry, took away a lot of stuff that makes this game "enjoyable" and gave us Strongholds... but alas I am not in a guild and have been told what the guild grinding is all about.
As I type this, I am downloading another game that recently went free to play, I am going to try out this weekend. I am a retired person and I get a check each month. I spend money on games because I enjoy playing them. But this game needs to revert to the way it was before April to really be "enjoyable" again. I will pop on and off to look for the Foundry or anything to return. As many other authors have unfinished works in progress and I don't like leaving things half done. Because the Foundry outage, I took up editing the official NWO wiki but sadly the thing is a mess and there are so few people adding information.
To me, this is just another removal of something people like to do, and not give anything back. I really don't know what they will remove next. There isn't much left. Most of my friends have already took off over a month ago, I don't plan to leave the game, but there isn't much to do until they get things together and put the Foundry back up online. I noticed Scott didn't mention the Foundry at all in his posting. So I guess until then, I am on sabbatical?
-
I actually mentioned I would prefer this in a seperate thread that asked what I use my AD for. I don't bother converting AD to Zen. I'm sure it would be unpopular with some, but the reality is that as long as that option to convert AD to Zen is in the game, there will be botters. I don't really see in game prices dropping unless the set prices are dropped. This actually will make the gold sellers comodity even more valuable, supply and demand, simple as that. I'd prefer they let me use my AD to develop my characters than nuke the whole profession lineup.I personally won't purchase from the 3rd party sellers, it just rubs me wrong... but I can see some who feel deeply ripped off by the incredibly poor way that this has been handled turning to that as an alternative.
i played before mod5 10 times or more foundry's ,after that i simply stoped due the insane mob strengts.
now this..
Now all we can do is sit back, relax, and let them have it...
When the player numbers drop like crazy after this change, the people ordering it might come to their senses, and they might be more willing to actually do something for the game and not against it.
You may have a point here, it's not like the developers are thinking:
"I know what would be really fun to advance the game, LESS REWARD FOR PLAYERS!!! YAY!!!"
More likely it is management saying:
"Maybe we can sell more zen if we make it impossible to generate large quantities of in-game currency"
Either way, Cryptic... this is what your CUSTOMERS think you are doing!
And to agree with multiple previous comments: I too have spent large quantities of money on Zen... in the thousands..
SO WTF?
More players will just leave, or stop spending any money at all.
And at some point, even the "hardcore" fans will stop playing/paying and move on.
I disagree that it would achieve absolutely nothing, and I should have been clearer. As long as that conduit between the in-game currency and Cryptic's revenue stream, the Zen shop, exists, it is an avenue to exploit. I don't actually believe this whole Leadership nerf is seriously to combat botting, it is intended to reduce access to those goods simply by playing the game (or playing it with a bot or armies of bots). This is why, and I am speaking only for myself, given a choice, I would prefer they just sever that link and leave leadership as is so I can use my AD to progress my characters. The way this group is rolling though, I would not be one bit surprised if they cut that off as well anyway, they just haven't come up with a way to spin doctor it.
I wonder what a dev's boon tree looks like:
they probably have:
we have shanadar they have customer service
we have dread ring they have nerf tree
we have stronghold they have kill player base
would be funny to see some made up dev boons.