Interesting approach...GCE but interesting anyway. Pretty much kills the Strongholds and in turn the guild structures. Especially since there has been a magnitude drop in value in what is obtained from lockboxes since the VIP program was implemented.
I did the math with the loss of leadership plus the nerf to ad dailies
were losing ad and gaining more of a grind
example now if run 1 dungeon on one char during event you earn 6k diamonds takes 10 min
new system run two dungeons you earn 6k diamonds and it takes 20 min you can then earn another 7200 at 150 to 750 per run based on time and we all know a 10 min tos run will only give the min 150 so that's another 48 runs or 8 and half hours to get the bonus. but lets say it gives 750 per run that's still another 9.6 runs of tos at 10 min each or 1.6 hours.
even if you don't go for the bonus your dungeon time has doubled.
pvp you can earn 8k per day per char with 4 match and 1 win
new system you only get total of 4k for 2 matches plus another 4800 at 200 to 300 per match even at 300 a match 15 min a match that's 16 matches at 15 min a match total of 4 hours
skirmishes now you get 3k for 3 runs plus 1k per run if during the event for a total of 6k takes about 30 min to do new system you get 3k for 2 runs so about 20 min and you then get bonus on each additional run at rate of 50 to 500 max of 7200 even at max 500 per run that's still 14.4 runs and at 10 min each another 2.4 hours.
currently just with one toon you can earn
dungen 6k 10 min skirm 6k 30 min pvp 8k 1 hour total 20,000 astral diamonds in 1 hour 40 min
new system you earn dungen 6k for 20 min skirmish 3k for 20 min pvp 4k for 30 min total 13000 for 50 min
with bonus new sytem dungen 6k 20 min 7200 bonus at minimum 1.6 hours total of 13200 skirmish 3k 20 min bonus of 7200 at minimum 2.4 hours total of 10200 pvp 4k for 30 min bouns of 4800 for another 4 hours minimum total 8800 total 32200 for 8 hours
let me say that again old system you get 20k for 1 hour 40 min new system you get 13k for 50 min or 32200 for 8 hours
this does not even take into account the loss of ad income most are going to lose with the loss of leadership ad for me I am loseing another 23000 ad which I get without boting.
in summary this is completely unacceptable and we need to make a stand this is not there game they made it but we play it there pay checks come from the money we invest in this game make your voices heard before its to late.
I suspect the developers have completely lost the plot...
Firstly, the dungeons.
It's great that the need to be online at a specific hour has been removed, but they've basically doubled the work you have to put in for a similar reward:
Old: Single dungeon run = 3000 AD for the Daily + 3000 for opening the chest with a free key. New: Two dungeon runs = 6000 AD plus + Bonus between 300 and 1500 (depending on time, whatever that means?)
So basically between 5% and 25% bonus for double the work?
Skirmishes don't seem quite as bad. You'll basically get 4500 for three with a bonus between 150 and 1500. So, if you get max bonus you'll match your reward with the old system. If not, you'll need to run four.
Next, the Leadership change.
On what planet is it a good idea to remove the only steady and reliable source of AD from regular players... to counter botting? How about coming up with better methods for detecting and removing bots - as other games have - rather than punishing regular players that have trained the profession for weeks, months and beyond for one reason... it rewards AD?
"XP, Gold, and loot items. All of these things are valuable to regular players"
Do the developers even play the game!?
XP is basically only an issue between 60 and 70. Overflow experience is just ridiculous now, and rewards are so random that it's barely worth paying attention to.
Gold? For what? The odd potion, kit and enchant removal?
Items? What items? Name one thing that will give incentive for the painful levelling process of Leadership. Or... let me guess... it will now become easy to train just to further annoy those that have already put the time and effort in?
Then of course, look at the overall cost of progression in Neverwinter. How many millions of AD do you need to spend to be at a level where you are accepted in the epic dungeons and skirmishes. As it is, the majority of random groups fall apart as soon as people start seeing anything under 2k iLvL.
How many hours of regular dungeons and skirmishes do you expect players to run to get to an acceptable level?
Crazy decision. You need to start listening to players while you still have some.
Hey folks, thank you for all of the feedback. I know this is a very touchy subject and everyone feels very passionately about it, which is why I wanted to get information out as soon as I could. I'm going to try and clear up a little confusion, and let you know what we're currently evaluating.
... edited the blah blah blah... ...
Again, thank you for the feedback. We are listening to what you say, and we're watching data. All of this information together will continue to help us make positive changes to the game.
IT'S NOT A POSITIVE CHANGE. The players have spoken.
I've already downloaded another game, GuildWars 2. If this asinine change takes place count me gone. Why don't you take care of the bots/armies instead of punishing players? Why can't you ban the gold spammers effectively? I don't want all these changes, it just makes the game feel like a crappy money grab.
I just want to play a game that's enjoyable and if I wanted to go through this kinda BS I would have stayed in Entropia Universe.
Thank you Scott, for even taking the time and making the effort to let us know what you are planning to do in the first place . Secondly, Arc/Cryptic deserves some recognition for allowing this discussion forum to continue in such a lively fashion. You are to be commended for giving us a heads up at all and I am sure that someone is looking at all of these comments seriously. I fully understand that your FREE TO PLAY game is a lure to spend money in the Zen store, but I've spent a tidy sum of money and considered it worth it to this point. However, I want to share some things that I think could be improved based on missteps I have perceived in the past.
I for one am going to stay around and see what you do to continue improving Neverwinter. Only a few posts have even mentioned Dungeons & Dragons. As a LONG time D&D player, I've been playing Neverwinter for 18 months almost exclusively solo. It's been fun. Love the combat. Graphics are great. I love the exploration and discovery.
But over the past 5-6 months it feels like I am being forced to play into a style I am not particularly interested in pursuing. I am talking about Strongholds and forcing me to join a guild to access that content. I am talking about the elimination of skirmishes, and the AD you get from doing them, for my OP going from 60-70.
The only real option for leveling to 70 is TEE, Cult of the Dragon path, or those three dungeons that are exactly the same as they've always been. Some of the older dungeons that we farmed for weapon enchantments were great content, but you can't play them anymore. Oh yeah and raising the level cap to 70 and suddenly the monsters were modified such that I could no longer do any content I did with my main the day earlier was really frustrating.
Now, one of the reasons that I am sticking around is you fixed the problem with the creatures being too tough recently...thank you. I can solo again with your recent HP adjustment to them. However, I hope you realize in a way, Cryptic started this race to the top which created people driven to get the new BIS by upping the level to 70 and making it so tough. I can't think of a better atmosphere for people to take advantage of bots and/or black market AD farmers to feed those individuals driven to get the BIS they crave. There is no way an individual alone, spending no money, will ever have BIS gear/enchants/artifacts/etc unless someone gives it to them. Which, by the way, can't happen because most of it is BOP/BOA.
So here are some suggestions, from my point of view, for you to consider and perhaps implement into your fine game.
1. Fix the obvious, silly bugs that are driving people nuts. Examples include: -lag induced by Mission Tracker being on (Mission Tracker is important to us solo players btw) -text mistakes like when you hover over an artifact weapon's refinement slots and it says to use runestones or enchants when you can't use those. -when logging off at your Stronghold you invariably get kicked back to the last placed you left when you travelled to the Stronghold. If I camp there, I expect to come back there.
2. Why don't you just get rid of professions on the gateway or get rid of the gateway alltogether? It is a great idea, but if the abuse is rampant, shut it down. Make people log on to do their professions...including leadership with the AD left in those jobs. The gateway is still in beta after all. That's what a beta is for, testing to see how it works. The bot part is costing you money, I get it...cut your losses.
3. By cutting off millions in cash flow into the economy, coupled with the huge amount of AD flowing out of the economy over the 2x refinement weekend, implementing the changes to how we acquire AD now would most likely create a severe crash to the economy.
4. As far as the bots in-game go, I must say I've never really paid that close attention because I'm off by myself. It does seem odd if there are over 1000 instances of ghost story at a time. I would say those accounts would be pretty easy to spot and ban for a period of time.
5. If you want to go ahead with the leadership AD NERF, then you need to come up with additional ways for players to acquire AD. Forcing players to get them through Dungeons, Skirmishes (which 61-69 can't do), and PVP is silly. Give out AD for quests (complete the dailies in a campaign and get 1-3k AD), for leveling, for invoking, for finding all the treasures in a dungeon, but cap it at 24k RAD. I don't have all day to play one character. I would like to play my alts too and still manage to get a decent amount of AD to spend.
In summation, I think the game is great, but the content has narrowed significantly in the past months for solo players like myself. The ability to acquire AD through using the leadership profession has been a great help in getting me to where I'm at with my main. I will be sorry to see it go. I'm sure you understand everyone's frustrations as change is difficult. Please keep communicating and listening to our opinions. I look forward to many more years of D&D adventuring in Neverwinter!
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santralafaxMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 2,896Arc User
On what planet is it a good idea to remove the only steady and reliable source of AD from regular players... to counter botting? How about coming up with better methods for detecting and removing bots - as other games have - rather than punishing regular players that have trained the profession for weeks, months and beyond for one reason... it rewards AD?
You are assuming that the reason stated is true. I have a hard time believing it is true.
At the beginning of Mod6 many items became bound to account and Lord Neverember's dailies were taken away. Drops and treasure for dungeons (which were salable on the AH) were taken away and traded for seals. Now it has been found that diligent players can make significant AD from Leadership--and it is taken away because of players, I mean "botters". This is all shortly after PWE took over the reigns.
Often I do Ghost Stories, and I always stand at the entrance for a minute or two and watch dozens of supposed characters entering that dungeon. No effort is made to clean that up. Not once. I understand Icespire Peak is full of roving "characters" just the same. Why don't the devs/managers do something there instead of hitting up players??
On a side note--SEALS suck. They are not treasure.
Looking at leadership over on the preview...I want to to be able to turn in all of my green and blue profession guys for AD...there is not reason for Leadership at all next week...AT ALL. Its a waste. XP??? by the time you get your leadership up to where it could help level you you will already be at level cap. I thought before totally calling it a farce I would at least look at what it is now. It is worthless...totally. Now if there were tasks where you had a chance for MoP and GMOP and Coal wards now you might be on to something but alas just too little...gold...worthless and always has been.
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rapticorMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,078Arc User
By the way, everyone feel free to send your (polite) feedback to Wizards of the Coast and Hasbro. Let them know that changes like this just end up damaging the brand. I can't see how anyone could recommend this game to their friends now unless their friends have too much money laying around.
I think the devs could use some training in PR or HR. it's never a good idea to anger your playerbase just like that. If you must give bad news that you know are going to anger people, be sure to have good news too, angry players only take so much before deciding to leave. I agree with the decision to remove AD from LS, but if they really want us to have enough AD on our own to progress our characters, then all the other more legit sources of AD have to be increased significatively. Dungeons, skirmishes, PVP, campaigns, leevlling, questing, foundries. All of that has to give enough AD to progress out characters in a fair amount of time. with the timid upgrade they gave, it's not really much of a change. people feel very very angry and frustrated because they see they won't be able to progress their characters anymore. So the devs should not only say that they will evaluate the prices of GMOPs and other fixed pricce items, they have to make sure we can have access to them and have that part of the plan ready now, and announce it aswell, because if not, all they're giving is bad news for 90% of the population of a game that has already taken more than many players can take.
Hey folks, thank you for all of the feedback. I know this is a very touchy subject and everyone feels very passionately about it, which is why I wanted to get information out as soon as I could.
..snip..
As I'd mentioned, we are looking into solutions for the solo player to get more AD. I hope to have news there very soon.
..snip..
Again, thank you for the feedback. We are listening to what you say, and we're watching data. All of this information together will continue to help us make positive changes to the game.
I have read many messages here from the Solo Playing members of the community, of which I am one, and I would ask (Loudly but Kindly!!):
PLEASE look into and add to the Solo Play quickly!!
Please!
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ghoulz66Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,748Arc User
Remember back in the early days of GW2 and the DEVs handing out ban hammers left and right to exploiters. Why can't we have just as bloodthirsty DEVs here?
Remember back in the early days of GW2 and the DEVs handing out ban hammers left and right to exploiters. Why can't we have just as bloodthirsty DEVs here?
Thats a big IF their reason for doing this is the exploiters and not just trying to force us to actually buy zen. Many believe thats just their catchall smokescreen for doing this and many other changes.
They have just about removed all the fun out of this game. Give us a reason to want to play. We have asked that since Mod 6 and are still waiting for a response. So far their response is ... crickets chirping
ive just return to the game 2weeks before mod 7, and its gotten worst compare to mod 5 before i quit, the idea of removing the ad from leadership making me think to quit again and never comeback
i use all the ad i got to buy zen to buy character slot and make leadership, and now i dont have any ad at all, great timing devs, GJ !
I don't think Cryptic wants or even can have live GMs banning people. I think all these measures are taken so no one has to actively log in to ban bots.
On top of that, though we were expecting players to use the Foundry daily to get AD, we found the vast majority weren't doing so at all.
So instead of making the Foundry more appealing to players, something that has been suggested and detailed ad nauseam for two years, you decided to use a sledgehammer: get players to use the Foundry by leaving them little other choice. You've decided to take the "path of least resistance" route, and to say that I am extremely disappointed would be an understatement.
We believe that simply playing content should get you your time currency, so we removed the daily quests and made things automatic. Now, simply play Dungeons, Skirmishes, and PvP, and you’ll receive significant bonus AD for completing the first 2 runs of each.
Clearly you haven't spent any significant amount of time actually playing the PvE portion of the game, especially in doing daily quests each day. If had, you'd have run afoul of the many hardcore PvP players who either don't care or actually delight in stealing quest objectives -- all so they can finish their dailies as quickly as possible so they can get back to PvP'ing. I'll say this as bluntly as possible: I will never PvP. It has less to do with not wanting to raise a hand against another player -- though that is a part of it -- than it has to do with the fact that I want no part of the immature, maladjusted, antisocial subculture that exists within the PvP population. No amount of pressure, overt or hidden, crude or subtle, will ever make me PvP in this game. Hell will freeze over first.
Leadership, while no longer a major source of AD, is still a good source for XP, Gold, and loot items. All of these things are valuable to regular players, but less so to botters.
I'm honestly astonished at the nerve it must take to make that statement. I'm actually taken aback. In the NWO universe, I have a modest "leadership army": one of each class with high leadership, all of which I try to keep in fighting trim (except for Paladins, but that's a separate issue -- never will a Paladin darken my door until certain survivability aspects change for the better). Nonetheless, to equate the AD that we receive from leadership -- a critical resource for advancing characters, from refining to upgrading mounts and companions -- with everything else that we get from Leadership is laughable. It must take a staggering amount of chutzpah to even attempt to equate the two. I certainly don't need 96 [Adventurer] assets and 42 [Hero] assets for those meager rewards. I certainly wouldn't have spent the insane amounts of AD -- acquired from selling Zen, for which I spent real money -- to acquire them. If I sound insulted and infuriated it is because I am, and I have every right to be.
Harper Chronicles: Cap Snatchers (RELEASED) - NW-DPUTABC6X Blood Magic (RELEASED) - NW-DUU2P7HCO Children of the Fey (RELEASED) - NW-DKSSAPFPF Buried Under Blacklake (WIP) - NW-DEDV2PAEP The Redcap Rebels (WIP) - NW-DO23AFHFH
My Foundry playthrough channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/Ruskaga/featured
as I stated in previous post how can we have faith when the lead designer doesn't even know how the current system works he stated old system play 2 matches get 4k.
that is completely wrong its play 4 matches get 4k not 2 and he also comepletly left out the daily in trade of blades to win one match for another 4k 500 glory and a seal of triump.
so I say why should we have faith in him to fix something he clearly does not even play because if he did he would at least know the correct amount of runs per quest.
How could u expect him will well known the current system works and whats going on as just got reassign position from manage sto to nwo. i doubt even don't understand why player keep leaving
Can't combat botter? Is that really hard to develop a code run on the weekly maintance to do some scan/verify on account servet/database to search if the same ip/ip range or MAC had frequently switch /logon multi account ?(may be account had more than 10+ characters)
Have never once, not one single time, ever, ever, done any pvp what-so-ever, and never will. I HATE pvp.
I have done very few skirmishes, normally during the weekend events trying to get a companion of some sort.
Ran a few dungeons early on before all my friends had enough of this game's issues and quit playing. Last time I tried a dungeon, to get shards for my stronghold, the rest of my party jumped down a cliff or something off to the side and disappeared. Not my playstyle. So I left the group and haven't tried again.
Used to create and play foundry quests for 90% of my play time, until that kept getting more and more broken and neglected.
So what do I do? Solo pve, primarily to support our guild's stronghold and level up my characters. That's it. So I'm supposed to get astral diamonds... how?
Really hate that I just bought some Zen that I couldn't really afford, to take advantage of the 15% bonus and help out my stronghold, and then found this info telling me that my time doesn't matter at all.
Just gonna leave this here and just point on the 24h task vs the 4h task. Also, want to thank Cryptic for really thinking this one through before rolling it out. *two thumbs up!*
just wow. alot of time and energy must have been put in to determine how to balance the different tasks...
"we all love this game and want it to thrive"
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ryoshinetteMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 488Arc User
24 pages of arguments and hate. Any devs response or it's just done?
Used to create and play foundry quests for 90% of my play time, until that kept getting more and more broken and neglected.
I really enjoyed your Kolde Acres quests, too, but I feel the same way. I'd like to create a new Foundry quest but the editor has become so slow, clunky, and broken, that I just can't build up the motivation to do it. While I'd love for people to play any quests I create, it really bothers me that these changes will mean that players would be doing so because they felt forced to do so instead of because they wanted to. I don't want to gain Foundry achievements that way.
So what do I do? Solo pve, primarily to support our guild's stronghold and level up my characters. That's it. So I'm supposed to get astral diamonds... how?
As the leader of our small guild, I cannot in good conscience wish for anyone to contribute AD toward the guild coffer in light of current costs and the upcoming AD nerf next week. We were well on our way toward finally getting our guild hall upgraded to level 2, but that's going to have to sit on hold until we know what we're dealing with. I'll still be running the quests, contributing everything except AD for the time being, but I would advise all of our members to postpone any AD expenditures for the foreseeable future.
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My Foundry playthrough channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/Ruskaga/featured
You forgot to account for something: if everybody earns less then the value of AD goes up.
As Scott said Cryptic wants a more standardized level of income based on how much time you are playing instead of how many alts you have and how much play time you sacrifice to farm AD on them. Yes you will gain less, but so will everybody else and some more so than others. Many more so than others in truth.
But this will mean increase in value of AD as well as more gain for the time you do spend playing the game. You might not get 100K AD...but you likely will get more than the current 100K AD is worth in true value with the amount of AD you do gain.
Thing is, there are certain things in the game which are not dependent on the 'value' of AD set by other players.
Just to name a few:
1) Stronghold AD requirements: Someone did a calculation that it takes 46million AD to get the Guild Hall to max level (this does not include other structures which will require AD). This price is fixed. 2) Companion Upgrades: 500k AD to upgrade from green to blue, 750K AD to purple, and 1mil AD to legendary. 2.25 mil. This cost will not be changed by the, "laws of supply and demand". 3) Artifact Upgrade Reagents: Greater Marks of Potency, Coalescent Wards (to an extent, as some are still obtainable from celestial coffers). I won't bother with the maths here, just do a search in the forums to see how ridiculous this will remain. (Note, cheap enchantments on the AH will still be sold by botters). 4) Mount Upgrades: This may be less important since there are mounts dropping from lockboxes, but at what, a rate of 0.01%? No one is really certain. However, upgrading mounts are integrated in the gaming 'costs' so to speak. 450k AD to train a Rank 1 mount to Rank 2. 1,050,000 AD to train a Rank 2 to Rank 3. 1.5mil AD in total to get a green 'Blue Ribbon Pig' to run as fast as an epic mount. Why bother leaving this bit of detritus in the programming if it is likely unattainable or unwanted? 5) Campaigns: While the costs here are not extremely high, they were implemented when Leadership was part of the game. Removing Leadership will effectively increase the costs of these campaign targets, according to your laws of supply and demand, because these campaign costs are fixed.
A large pool of AD will still be in the hands of those who have already made their fortune There are people sitting on a pile of AD (botters not included) who just 'play' the auction house, probably more so than actually playing the game.
Basically, this proposed Leadership change will be letting people who have attained their AD to stay at the pinnacle of this economy. People who have abused exploits, botting or farming will already have made their fortune, and will essentially be let off scot-free. As someone previously said, this change will just hand them the keys to the economy. Instead of Cryptic trying to actively police it, what does it do? Stymie anyone new or starting to ever compete with them.
Botters still have other avenues to exploit. This Leadership change will increase the value of AD they will obtain from those activities. Selling cheap enchantments on the AH will still remain in the domain of botters. Selling profession resources will still remain in the hands of botters. Selling anything remotely obtainable by the regular player will be magnified in quantity by botters. Cryptic, rather than actively policing botting activity, nerfs everything instead.
This Leadership change will not be addressing these issues, effectively increasing the 'purchasing power' of these botters, as more refined AD will be going into their hands; a double whammy since AD will become more 'valuable', according to your laws of supply and demand, after this change.
Instead of seeing "GOLDS COM 9.89 USD===1M AD" in zone chat, you might see it selling for US$15, almost an instant boost to the value AD they already have. GG Cryptic.
Summary This approach is very heavy-handed, will cause massive loss of trust in players, incompletely addresses the issue of botting, destroys existing game content (diminishing the richness of this game), may increase wealth inequality, and will make fixed prices more costly. But, I suppose ... the law of supply and demand will make that all go away.
Just gonna leave this here and just point on the 24h task vs the 4h task. Also, want to thank Cryptic for really thinking this one through before rolling it out. *two thumbs up!*
just wow. alot of time and energy must have been put in to determine how to balance the different tasks...
Profession exp looks the same too : |
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rapticorMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,078Arc User
24 pages of arguments and hate. Any devs response or it's just done?
A dev, respond? Surely you jest. We'll probably just get a "we're looking into this. We appreciate your feedback. We're gonna make this awesome" type deal just like we got with Mod 6. I swear, it's like they've got their hands on a copy of 1984 and are using it as a handbook.
And good lord...suddenly I feel very old making an Orwell reference.
Don't feel bad. I read 1984in 1984 -- as part of our high school English required reading. Suddenly I remember how the chocolate ration was lowered and it was touted as doubleplusgood.
Harper Chronicles: Cap Snatchers (RELEASED) - NW-DPUTABC6X Blood Magic (RELEASED) - NW-DUU2P7HCO Children of the Fey (RELEASED) - NW-DKSSAPFPF Buried Under Blacklake (WIP) - NW-DEDV2PAEP The Redcap Rebels (WIP) - NW-DO23AFHFH
My Foundry playthrough channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/Ruskaga/featured
24 pages of arguments and hate. Any devs response or it's just done?
A dev, respond? Surely you jest. We'll probably just get a "we're looking into this. We appreciate your feedback. We're gonna make this awesome" type deal just like we got with Mod 6. I swear, it's like they've got their hands on a copy of 1984 and are using it as a handbook.
And good lord...suddenly I feel very old making an Orwell reference.
Don't feel bad. I read 1984in 1984 -- as part of our high school English required reading. Suddenly I remember how the chocolate ration was lowered and it was touted as doubleplusgood.
Because they turned around a week later and claimed they were increasing it to X amount. Seems oddly familiar, but I just can't put my finger on 'why'....
Comments
Pretty much kills the Strongholds and in turn the guild structures.
Especially since there has been a magnitude drop in value in what is obtained from lockboxes since the VIP program was implemented.
10:04PM in General Discussion (PC)
I did the math with the loss of leadership plus the nerf to ad dailies
were losing ad and gaining more of a grind
example now if run 1 dungeon on one char during event you earn 6k diamonds takes 10 min
new system run two dungeons you earn 6k diamonds and it takes 20 min you can then earn another 7200 at 150 to 750 per run based on time and we all know a 10 min tos run will only give the min 150 so that's another 48 runs or 8 and half hours to get the bonus. but lets say it gives 750 per run that's still another 9.6 runs of tos at 10 min each or 1.6 hours.
even if you don't go for the bonus your dungeon time has doubled.
pvp you can earn 8k per day per char with 4 match and 1 win
new system you only get total of 4k for 2 matches plus another 4800 at 200 to 300 per match even at 300 a match 15 min a match that's 16 matches at 15 min a match total of 4 hours
skirmishes now you get 3k for 3 runs plus 1k per run if during the event for a total of 6k takes about 30 min to do new system you get 3k for 2 runs so about 20 min and you then get bonus on each additional run at rate of 50 to 500 max of 7200 even at max 500 per run that's still 14.4 runs and at 10 min each another 2.4 hours.
currently just with one toon you can earn
dungen 6k 10 min
skirm 6k 30 min
pvp 8k 1 hour
total 20,000 astral diamonds in 1 hour 40 min
new system you earn
dungen 6k for 20 min
skirmish 3k for 20 min
pvp 4k for 30 min
total 13000 for 50 min
with bonus new sytem
dungen 6k 20 min 7200 bonus at minimum 1.6 hours total of 13200
skirmish 3k 20 min bonus of 7200 at minimum 2.4 hours total of 10200
pvp 4k for 30 min bouns of 4800 for another 4 hours minimum total 8800
total 32200 for 8 hours
let me say that again old system you get 20k for 1 hour 40 min new system you get 13k for 50 min or 32200 for 8 hours
this does not even take into account the loss of ad income most are going to lose with the loss of leadership ad for me I am loseing another 23000 ad which I get without boting.
in summary
this is completely unacceptable and we need to make a stand this is not there game they made it but we play it there pay checks come from the money we invest in this game make your voices heard before its to late.
NW-DHNVMMGVJ Dragons horde part one.
http://youtu.be/0KbqTWeJqxc
Firstly, the dungeons.
It's great that the need to be online at a specific hour has been removed, but they've basically doubled the work you have to put in for a similar reward:
Old: Single dungeon run = 3000 AD for the Daily + 3000 for opening the chest with a free key.
New: Two dungeon runs = 6000 AD plus + Bonus between 300 and 1500 (depending on time, whatever that means?)
So basically between 5% and 25% bonus for double the work?
Skirmishes don't seem quite as bad. You'll basically get 4500 for three with a bonus between 150 and 1500. So, if you get max bonus you'll match your reward with the old system. If not, you'll need to run four.
Next, the Leadership change.
On what planet is it a good idea to remove the only steady and reliable source of AD from regular players... to counter botting? How about coming up with better methods for detecting and removing bots - as other games have - rather than punishing regular players that have trained the profession for weeks, months and beyond for one reason... it rewards AD?
"XP, Gold, and loot items. All of these things are valuable to regular players"
Do the developers even play the game!?
XP is basically only an issue between 60 and 70. Overflow experience is just ridiculous now, and rewards are so random that it's barely worth paying attention to.
Gold? For what? The odd potion, kit and enchant removal?
Items? What items? Name one thing that will give incentive for the painful levelling process of Leadership. Or... let me guess... it will now become easy to train just to further annoy those that have already put the time and effort in?
Then of course, look at the overall cost of progression in Neverwinter. How many millions of AD do you need to spend to be at a level where you are accepted in the epic dungeons and skirmishes. As it is, the majority of random groups fall apart as soon as people start seeing anything under 2k iLvL.
How many hours of regular dungeons and skirmishes do you expect players to run to get to an acceptable level?
Crazy decision. You need to start listening to players while you still have some.
I've already downloaded another game, GuildWars 2. If this asinine change takes place count me gone. Why don't you take care of the bots/armies instead of punishing players? Why can't you ban the gold spammers effectively? I don't want all these changes, it just makes the game feel like a crappy money grab.
I just want to play a game that's enjoyable and if I wanted to go through this kinda BS I would have stayed in Entropia Universe.
EU-7years
NW-2years
GW2-???
I for one am going to stay around and see what you do to continue improving Neverwinter. Only a few posts have even mentioned Dungeons & Dragons. As a LONG time D&D player, I've been playing Neverwinter for 18 months almost exclusively solo. It's been fun. Love the combat. Graphics are great. I love the exploration and discovery.
But over the past 5-6 months it feels like I am being forced to play into a style I am not particularly interested in pursuing. I am talking about Strongholds and forcing me to join a guild to access that content. I am talking about the elimination of skirmishes, and the AD you get from doing them, for my OP going from 60-70.
The only real option for leveling to 70 is TEE, Cult of the Dragon path, or those three dungeons that are exactly the same as they've always been. Some of the older dungeons that we farmed for weapon enchantments were great content, but you can't play them anymore. Oh yeah and raising the level cap to 70 and suddenly the monsters were modified such that I could no longer do any content I did with my main the day earlier was really frustrating.
Now, one of the reasons that I am sticking around is you fixed the problem with the creatures being too tough recently...thank you. I can solo again with your recent HP adjustment to them. However, I hope you realize in a way, Cryptic started this race to the top which created people driven to get the new BIS by upping the level to 70 and making it so tough. I can't think of a better atmosphere for people to take advantage of bots and/or black market AD farmers to feed those individuals driven to get the BIS they crave. There is no way an individual alone, spending no money, will ever have BIS gear/enchants/artifacts/etc unless someone gives it to them. Which, by the way, can't happen because most of it is BOP/BOA.
So here are some suggestions, from my point of view, for you to consider and perhaps implement into your fine game.
1. Fix the obvious, silly bugs that are driving people nuts. Examples include:
-lag induced by Mission Tracker being on (Mission Tracker is important to us solo players btw)
-text mistakes like when you hover over an artifact weapon's refinement slots and it says to use runestones or
enchants when you can't use those.
-when logging off at your Stronghold you invariably get kicked back to the last placed you left when you travelled to
the Stronghold. If I camp there, I expect to come back there.
2. Why don't you just get rid of professions on the gateway or get rid of the gateway alltogether? It is a great idea, but
if the abuse is rampant, shut it down. Make people log on to do their professions...including leadership with the AD
left in those jobs. The gateway is still in beta after all. That's what a beta is for, testing to see how it works. The bot
part is costing you money, I get it...cut your losses.
3. By cutting off millions in cash flow into the economy, coupled with the huge amount of AD flowing out of the
economy over the 2x refinement weekend, implementing the changes to how we acquire AD now would most likely
create a severe crash to the economy.
4. As far as the bots in-game go, I must say I've never really paid that close attention because I'm off by myself. It does
seem odd if there are over 1000 instances of ghost story at a time. I would say those accounts would be pretty easy
to spot and ban for a period of time.
5. If you want to go ahead with the leadership AD NERF, then you need to come up with additional ways for players to
acquire AD. Forcing players to get them through Dungeons, Skirmishes (which 61-69 can't do), and PVP is silly.
Give out AD for quests (complete the dailies in a campaign and get 1-3k AD), for leveling, for invoking, for finding
all the treasures in a dungeon, but cap it at 24k RAD. I don't have all day to play one character. I would like to
play my alts too and still manage to get a decent amount of AD to spend.
In summation, I think the game is great, but the content has narrowed significantly in the past months for solo players like myself. The ability to acquire AD through using the leadership profession has been a great help in getting me to where I'm at with my main. I will be sorry to see it go. I'm sure you understand everyone's frustrations as change is difficult. Please keep communicating and listening to our opinions. I look forward to many more years of D&D adventuring in Neverwinter!
At the beginning of Mod6 many items became bound to account and Lord Neverember's dailies were taken away. Drops and treasure for dungeons (which were salable on the AH) were taken away and traded for seals. Now it has been found that diligent players can make significant AD from Leadership--and it is taken away because of players, I mean "botters". This is all shortly after PWE took over the reigns.
Often I do Ghost Stories, and I always stand at the entrance for a minute or two and watch dozens of supposed characters entering that dungeon. No effort is made to clean that up. Not once. I understand Icespire Peak is full of roving "characters" just the same. Why don't the devs/managers do something there instead of hitting up players??
On a side note--SEALS suck. They are not treasure.
I agree with the decision to remove AD from LS, but if they really want us to have enough AD on our own to progress our characters, then all the other more legit sources of AD have to be increased significatively.
Dungeons, skirmishes, PVP, campaigns, leevlling, questing, foundries. All of that has to give enough AD to progress out characters in a fair amount of time. with the timid upgrade they gave, it's not really much of a change. people feel very very angry and frustrated because they see they won't be able to progress their characters anymore.
So the devs should not only say that they will evaluate the prices of GMOPs and other fixed pricce items, they have to make sure we can have access to them and have that part of the plan ready now, and announce it aswell, because if not, all they're giving is bad news for 90% of the population of a game that has already taken more than many players can take.
PLEASE look into and add to the Solo Play quickly!!
Please!
They have just about removed all the fun out of this game. Give us a reason to want to play. We have asked that since Mod 6 and are still waiting for a response. So far their response is ... crickets chirping
the idea of removing the ad from leadership making me think to quit again and never comeback
i use all the ad i got to buy zen to buy character slot and make leadership, and now i dont have any ad at all, great timing devs, GJ !
Blood Magic (RELEASED) - NW-DUU2P7HCO
Children of the Fey (RELEASED) - NW-DKSSAPFPF
Buried Under Blacklake (WIP) - NW-DEDV2PAEP
The Redcap Rebels (WIP) - NW-DO23AFHFH
My Foundry playthrough channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/Ruskaga/featured
that is completely wrong its play 4 matches get 4k not 2 and he also comepletly left out the daily in trade of blades to win one match for another 4k 500 glory and a seal of triump.
so I say why should we have faith in him to fix something he clearly does not even play because if he did he would at least know the correct amount of runs per quest.
NW-DHNVMMGVJ Dragons horde part one.
http://youtu.be/0KbqTWeJqxc
Can't combat botter? Is that really hard to develop a code run on the weekly maintance to do some scan/verify on account servet/database to search if the same ip/ip range or MAC had frequently switch /logon multi account ?(may be account had more than 10+ characters)
Have never once, not one single time, ever, ever, done any pvp what-so-ever, and never will. I HATE pvp.
I have done very few skirmishes, normally during the weekend events trying to get a companion of some sort.
Ran a few dungeons early on before all my friends had enough of this game's issues and quit playing. Last time I tried a dungeon, to get shards for my stronghold, the rest of my party jumped down a cliff or something off to the side and disappeared. Not my playstyle. So I left the group and haven't tried again.
Used to create and play foundry quests for 90% of my play time, until that kept getting more and more broken and neglected.
So what do I do? Solo pve, primarily to support our guild's stronghold and level up my characters. That's it. So I'm supposed to get astral diamonds... how?
Really hate that I just bought some Zen that I couldn't really afford, to take advantage of the 15% bonus and help out my stronghold, and then found this info telling me that my time doesn't matter at all.
[UGC] Kolde Acres (Discontinued)
Any devs response or it's just done?
.Suicide Squad.
Blood Magic (RELEASED) - NW-DUU2P7HCO
Children of the Fey (RELEASED) - NW-DKSSAPFPF
Buried Under Blacklake (WIP) - NW-DEDV2PAEP
The Redcap Rebels (WIP) - NW-DO23AFHFH
My Foundry playthrough channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/Ruskaga/featured
Just to name a few:
1) Stronghold AD requirements: Someone did a calculation that it takes 46million AD to get the Guild Hall to max level (this does not include other structures which will require AD). This price is fixed.
2) Companion Upgrades: 500k AD to upgrade from green to blue, 750K AD to purple, and 1mil AD to legendary. 2.25 mil. This cost will not be changed by the, "laws of supply and demand".
3) Artifact Upgrade Reagents: Greater Marks of Potency, Coalescent Wards (to an extent, as some are still obtainable from celestial coffers). I won't bother with the maths here, just do a search in the forums to see how ridiculous this will remain. (Note, cheap enchantments on the AH will still be sold by botters).
4) Mount Upgrades: This may be less important since there are mounts dropping from lockboxes, but at what, a rate of 0.01%? No one is really certain. However, upgrading mounts are integrated in the gaming 'costs' so to speak. 450k AD to train a Rank 1 mount to Rank 2. 1,050,000 AD to train a Rank 2 to Rank 3. 1.5mil AD in total to get a green 'Blue Ribbon Pig' to run as fast as an epic mount. Why bother leaving this bit of detritus in the programming if it is likely unattainable or unwanted?
5) Campaigns: While the costs here are not extremely high, they were implemented when Leadership was part of the game. Removing Leadership will effectively increase the costs of these campaign targets, according to your laws of supply and demand, because these campaign costs are fixed.
A large pool of AD will still be in the hands of those who have already made their fortune
There are people sitting on a pile of AD (botters not included) who just 'play' the auction house, probably more so than actually playing the game.
Basically, this proposed Leadership change will be letting people who have attained their AD to stay at the pinnacle of this economy. People who have abused exploits, botting or farming will already have made their fortune, and will essentially be let off scot-free. As someone previously said, this change will just hand them the keys to the economy. Instead of Cryptic trying to actively police it, what does it do? Stymie anyone new or starting to ever compete with them.
Botters still have other avenues to exploit. This Leadership change will increase the value of AD they will obtain from those activities.
Selling cheap enchantments on the AH will still remain in the domain of botters. Selling profession resources will still remain in the hands of botters. Selling anything remotely obtainable by the regular player will be magnified in quantity by botters. Cryptic, rather than actively policing botting activity, nerfs everything instead.
This Leadership change will not be addressing these issues, effectively increasing the 'purchasing power' of these botters, as more refined AD will be going into their hands; a double whammy since AD will become more 'valuable', according to your laws of supply and demand, after this change.
Instead of seeing "GOLDS COM 9.89 USD===1M AD" in zone chat, you might see it selling for US$15, almost an instant boost to the value AD they already have. GG Cryptic.
Summary
This approach is very heavy-handed, will cause massive loss of trust in players, incompletely addresses the issue of botting, destroys existing game content (diminishing the richness of this game), may increase wealth inequality, and will make fixed prices more costly. But, I suppose ... the law of supply and demand will make that all go away.
Blood Magic (RELEASED) - NW-DUU2P7HCO
Children of the Fey (RELEASED) - NW-DKSSAPFPF
Buried Under Blacklake (WIP) - NW-DEDV2PAEP
The Redcap Rebels (WIP) - NW-DO23AFHFH
My Foundry playthrough channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/Ruskaga/featured