So we got ONE video and requirements 2K is was too high, I expect to see thousands videos when 2K itemlevel party complets,
eCC
eGWD
eTOS
, minority is not equal to majority or was that opposite?
Do you really think everybody records their runs? Or do you think thousands parties will record and upload the 2k videos JUST so you can see and believe? No, its not going to happen. And Im sure these videos wont help - people will pick on things they dont like and request new videos done without this and that until players will be forced to play like in hck'n'slash - run forward and mindlessly mash buttons. Also, these dungeons are supposed to be end game - they are meant to be done successfully by minority and failed by majority - they are test of gear / mechanic / coordination, they were never supposed to be easy and doable by average Joe
Your answer proves nothing but that majority of players should look other games and minority should keep this game going. It is also proven by steam statistic shows situation very well and for that I dont need videos.
I miss old dungeons and fun runs with them, doable bosses with proper tactic with random teams when allmost any combination worked if just told players "how to do it"... so 95% of us need look around and I agree with that.
/rant begins
You know what you need to do:
1) Go play path of exile/ world of warcraft.
2) Realize that the content in those games is much harder then it is here
3) Whine, complain and moan about it on the forums
4) Get laughed at, by a player base that realize that the game should have hard content aimed at intelligent and skilled players that yes, does EXCLUDE players who aren't elite or endgame.
5) Come back to neverwinter and stop complaining, because you realize that most of the content panders for players like you here.
In this game, most of the content is aimed towards casual players, so stop complaining about the 1% of the content that is aimed at 5% of the playerbase that the other 95% of the playerbase can't do, because guess what, 99% of the remaining content is aimed towards people like you.
Not all of the content is aimed at all of the players. I dislike PVP in most games, I will admit I probably suck at it, but I don't complain that PVP players are getting new pvp content that I can't do, because guess what, that content was designed for them. Yes, it excludes me, so what, not everything in the game, or the world for that matter, should cater for my wants. The same is true for you, or anyone else who isn't in a position where they can complete the t2 dungeons. So what if you can't complete them, there are enough people who can, who say that the content is fine, who it was clearly aimed for. The dungeons should not be doable by the average joe and certainly not the pug groups and I personally strongly advocate the fixing of those exploits in eCC so no-one except those skilled enough to complete them can get them completed. You are not entitled to those gear drops in t2 dungeons and heck, they aren't even a major improvement to your gear. Risk vs return, its far more profitable to farm t1's then t2;s, so I don't see why you even complaining.
Completing a t2 should be an achievement, not something, "pug groups can do" or "any random group can do" and atm, they are an achievement. And the first person who claims "you got OP gear yada yada yada" can inspect my characters, my highest geared char has no higher then rank 8's and less then 2.5k ilvl. The majority of my toons have 2000-2.1k ilvl, I am defending the status quo and I meet your under 2.5k requirement, I have never had a toon with over 2.5k ilvl, I am proof that your claims of only overgeared players can do it is a lie.
Now, to anyone else who wants to complain about this, here are some general guidelines, since i haven't actually seen this from anyone who has come forward and complained.
1) Why should a random group be able to do it, when its content aimed at the best players and isn't even really rewarding?
2) Why is it important that you be able to do this dungeon.
3) Definitive proof that it is Not possible to complete these t2 dungeons with 2k ilvl.
4) Reasons why the minimum requirement of 2k ilvl implies that it is also the recommended requirement.
5) Some structured counter arguments to my arguments, as well as mamaluke's, as well as everyone elses, going back to the start of mod 6 when diogene was still arguing this case.
Finally, this is what I have to say:
Until you have completed it, stop complaining about it. If you can't complete it, it says nothing, its aimed at better players then you. If you have completed it legit, then by all means, complain about it constructively, you have earned the right to complain about it.
All i have seen so far is butthurt people whining that they can't do everything and everything in the game, because everything should be about them.
So we got ONE video and requirements 2K is was too high, I expect to see thousands videos when 2K itemlevel party complets,
eCC
eGWD
eTOS
, minority is not equal to majority or was that opposite?
Do you really think everybody records their runs? Or do you think thousands parties will record and upload the 2k videos JUST so you can see and believe? No, its not going to happen. And Im sure these videos wont help - people will pick on things they dont like and request new videos done without this and that until players will be forced to play like in hck'n'slash - run forward and mindlessly mash buttons. Also, these dungeons are supposed to be end game - they are meant to be done successfully by minority and failed by majority - they are test of gear / mechanic / coordination, they were never supposed to be easy and doable by average Joe
Your answer proves nothing but that majority of players should look other games and minority should keep this game going. It is also proven by steam statistic shows situation very well and for that I dont need videos.
I miss old dungeons and fun runs with them, doable bosses with proper tactic with random teams when allmost any combination worked if just told players "how to do it"... so 95% of us need look around and I agree with that.
people that claim they can do it with 2k ilvl,
Yes, it is just "claim" that 2K can do it, you have proven my point, THX.
So we got ONE video and requirements 2K is was too high, I expect to see thousands videos when 2K itemlevel party complets,
eCC
eGWD
eTOS
, minority is not equal to majority or was that opposite?
Do you really think everybody records their runs? Or do you think thousands parties will record and upload the 2k videos JUST so you can see and believe? No, its not going to happen. And Im sure these videos wont help - people will pick on things they dont like and request new videos done without this and that until players will be forced to play like in hck'n'slash - run forward and mindlessly mash buttons. Also, these dungeons are supposed to be end game - they are meant to be done successfully by minority and failed by majority - they are test of gear / mechanic / coordination, they were never supposed to be easy and doable by average Joe
Your answer proves nothing but that majority of players should look other games and minority should keep this game going. It is also proven by steam statistic shows situation very well and for that I dont need videos.
I miss old dungeons and fun runs with them, doable bosses with proper tactic with random teams when allmost any combination worked if just told players "how to do it"... so 95% of us need look around and I agree with that.
people that claim they can do it with 2k ilvl,
Yes, it is just "claim" that 2K can do it, you have proven my point, THX.
Wow, out of everything that was written you picked up on that thing? I guess the constructive argument is over then. I presumed you read the whole thread, or at least a few posts directly above yours, so I didnt feel I had to say:"Claim and are going to prove it soon".
P.S. What was your point then? That they cant do it? What are you going to do when they post a video? Just curious.
0
Options
clericalistMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 595Arc User
So we got ONE video and requirements 2K is was too high, I expect to see thousands videos when 2K itemlevel party complets,
eCC
eGWD
eTOS
, minority is not equal to majority or was that opposite?
Do you really think everybody records their runs? Or do you think thousands parties will record and upload the 2k videos JUST so you can see and believe? No, its not going to happen. And Im sure these videos wont help - people will pick on things they dont like and request new videos done without this and that until players will be forced to play like in hck'n'slash - run forward and mindlessly mash buttons. Also, these dungeons are supposed to be end game - they are meant to be done successfully by minority and failed by majority - they are test of gear / mechanic / coordination, they were never supposed to be easy and doable by average Joe
Your answer proves nothing but that majority of players should look other games and minority should keep this game going. It is also proven by steam statistic shows situation very well and for that I dont need videos.
I miss old dungeons and fun runs with them, doable bosses with proper tactic with random teams when allmost any combination worked if just told players "how to do it"... so 95% of us need look around and I agree with that.
/rant begins
You know what you need to do:
1) Go play path of exile/ world of warcraft.
2) Realize that the content in those games is much harder then it is here
3) Whine, complain and moan about it on the forums
4) Get laughed at, by a player base that realize that the game should have hard content aimed at intelligent and skilled players that yes, does EXCLUDE players who aren't elite or endgame.
5) Come back to neverwinter and stop complaining, because you realize that most of the content panders for players like you here.
In this game, most of the content is aimed towards casual players, so stop complaining about the 1% of the content that is aimed at 5% of the playerbase that the other 95% of the playerbase can't do, because guess what, 99% of the remaining content is aimed towards people like you.
Not all of the content is aimed at all of the players. I dislike PVP in most games, I will admit I probably suck at it, but I don't complain that PVP players are getting new pvp content that I can't do, because guess what, that content was designed for them. Yes, it excludes me, so what, not everything in the game, or the world for that matter, should cater for my wants. The same is true for you, or anyone else who isn't in a position where they can complete the t2 dungeons. So what if you can't complete them, there are enough people who can, who say that the content is fine, who it was clearly aimed for. The dungeons should not be doable by the average joe and certainly not the pug groups and I personally strongly advocate the fixing of those exploits in eCC so no-one except those skilled enough to complete them can get them completed. You are not entitled to those gear drops in t2 dungeons and heck, they aren't even a major improvement to your gear. Risk vs return, its far more profitable to farm t1's then t2;s, so I don't see why you even complaining.
Completing a t2 should be an achievement, not something, "pug groups can do" or "any random group can do" and atm, they are an achievement. And the first person who claims "you got OP gear yada yada yada" can inspect my characters, my highest geared char has no higher then rank 8's and less then 2.5k ilvl. The majority of my toons have 2000-2.1k ilvl, I am defending the status quo and I meet your under 2.5k requirement, I have never had a toon with over 2.5k ilvl, I am proof that your claims of only overgeared players can do it is a lie.
Now, to anyone else who wants to complain about this, here are some general guidelines, since i haven't actually seen this from anyone who has come forward and complained.
1) Why should a random group be able to do it, when its content aimed at the best players and isn't even really rewarding?
2) Why is it important that you be able to do this dungeon.
3) Definitive proof that it is Not possible to complete these t2 dungeons with 2k ilvl.
4) Reasons why the minimum requirement of 2k ilvl implies that it is also the recommended requirement.
5) Some structured counter arguments to my arguments, as well as mamaluke's, as well as everyone elses, going back to the start of mod 6 when diogene was still arguing this case.
Finally, this is what I have to say:
Until you have completed it, stop complaining about it. If you can't complete it, it says nothing, its aimed at better players then you. If you have completed it legit, then by all means, complain about it constructively, you have earned the right to complain about it.
All i have seen so far is butthurt people whining that they can't do everything and everything in the game, because everything should be about them.
/rant ends.
Would you care to show where anyone working for Cryptic stated that T2 was only meant for 5% of the player base ? Its also probably more accurate to say that 0.1% of the player base does T2 "legit", and I say "legit" because permanent Paladin shielding or buggy Lostmauth sets are also taking advantage of bad coding just as much as getting enemies to go through invisible force fields is.
I know what Cryptic has clearly stated however, they have stated that every party combination should be able to succeed, that is currently not the case. Saying one did ECC with a trapper ranger, protection paladin, virtuous cleric, trans vorpals and feats x, y, z blah blah blah - is not evidence of skill its evidence that the game allows one to play in a very narrow range of possibilities. The boss should be beaten by any combination of classes, any combination of feats and any combination items, if that is not the case then the game is breaking its own design principles.
This game is not Starcraft 2 or online chess, if you want to boast about your game play prowess play those games, showing off ones "skill" here is not impressive at all. This game is riddled with bugs, its got things that don't work as stated and has a very big list of imbalance issues. What keeps it going is the D&D title, when the meme starts to build that this game is pay to win and winnable by a very small amount, how can any good come out of that ?
In this game, most of the content is aimed towards casual players, so stop complaining about the 1% of the content that is aimed at 5% of the playerbase that the other 95% of the playerbase can't do, because guess what, 99% of the remaining content is aimed towards people like you.
You can blow through that 95% of content in half a year. And that's with most of it gated behind daily and weekly quests. If cryptic really intended to gate the remaining 5% for 1% of their player base they'd be intentionally bleeding players. Maybe that's their goal but it's a bad business model.
1) Why should a random group be able to do it, when its content aimed at the best players and isn't even really rewarding?
2) Why is it important that you be able to do this dungeon.
3) Definitive proof that it is Not possible to complete these t2 dungeons with 2k ilvl.
4) Reasons why the minimum requirement of 2k ilvl implies that it is also the recommended requirement.
5) Some structured counter arguments to my arguments, as well as mamaluke's, as well as everyone elses, going back to the start of mod 6 when diogene was still arguing this case.
I think you're a little confused as to why anyone is asking for proof that it's possible at 2k.
Fabricant said it was "easy" to do with a group at 2k ilvl. So we asked him to show that it's "easy".
P.S. What was your point then? That they cant do it? What are you going to do when they post a video? Just curious.
lol I'm going to tell you exactly what he's going to do - he's going to point out every single thing we didn't do as 2k's (having boons, augments, legendary whatever) and try to dispute and make the whole video look like it's a sham. I 100% predict that, mark my words.
P.S. What was your point then? That they cant do it? What are you going to do when they post a video? Just curious.
lol I'm going to tell you exactly what he's going to do - he's going to point out every single thing we didn't do as 2k's (having boons, augments, legendary whatever) and try to dispute and make the whole video look like it's a sham. I 100% predict that, mark my words.
Of coarse they will, because they are in the "limited thought process, it can't be done so you must be cheating" category of people. It is not about us proving that it can be done, all it is, is them wanting it nerfed. Even if we posted 10 videos of it, each different, we would only hear the different excuses as to why the runs don't count. At the end of the day, they expect us to pander to their "infallible" logical conclusions without them making any concessions or attempt to understand ours.
P.S. What was your point then? That they cant do it? What are you going to do when they post a video? Just curious.
lol I'm going to tell you exactly what he's going to do - he's going to point out every single thing we didn't do as 2k's (having boons, augments, legendary whatever) and try to dispute and make the whole video look like it's a sham. I 100% predict that, mark my words.
I think she dont have to do, it is allready proven here,
In this game, most of the content is aimed towards casual players, so stop complaining about the 1% of the content that is aimed at 5% of the playerbase that the other 95% of the playerbase can't do, because guess what, 99% of the remaining content is aimed towards people like you.
You can blow through that 95% of content in half a year. And that's with most of it gated behind daily and weekly quests. If cryptic really intended to gate the remaining 5% for 1% of their player base they'd be intentionally bleeding players. Maybe that's their goal but it's a bad business model.
1) Why should a random group be able to do it, when its content aimed at the best players and isn't even really rewarding?
2) Why is it important that you be able to do this dungeon.
3) Definitive proof that it is Not possible to complete these t2 dungeons with 2k ilvl.
4) Reasons why the minimum requirement of 2k ilvl implies that it is also the recommended requirement.
5) Some structured counter arguments to my arguments, as well as mamaluke's, as well as everyone elses, going back to the start of mod 6 when diogene was still arguing this case.
I think you're a little confused as to why anyone is asking for proof that it's possible at 2k.
Fabricant said it was "easy" to do with a group at 2k ilvl. So we asked him to show that it's "easy".
, proven that it wont happen or it may happen for 0.1% off players and look steamstat how BIG this game playerbase is...
0
Options
thefabricantMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 5,248Arc User
So we got ONE video and requirements 2K is was too high, I expect to see thousands videos when 2K itemlevel party complets,
eCC
eGWD
eTOS
, minority is not equal to majority or was that opposite?
Do you really think everybody records their runs? Or do you think thousands parties will record and upload the 2k videos JUST so you can see and believe? No, its not going to happen. And Im sure these videos wont help - people will pick on things they dont like and request new videos done without this and that until players will be forced to play like in hck'n'slash - run forward and mindlessly mash buttons. Also, these dungeons are supposed to be end game - they are meant to be done successfully by minority and failed by majority - they are test of gear / mechanic / coordination, they were never supposed to be easy and doable by average Joe
Your answer proves nothing but that majority of players should look other games and minority should keep this game going. It is also proven by steam statistic shows situation very well and for that I dont need videos.
I miss old dungeons and fun runs with them, doable bosses with proper tactic with random teams when allmost any combination worked if just told players "how to do it"... so 95% of us need look around and I agree with that.
/rant begins
You know what you need to do:
1) Go play path of exile/ world of warcraft.
2) Realize that the content in those games is much harder then it is here
3) Whine, complain and moan about it on the forums
4) Get laughed at, by a player base that realize that the game should have hard content aimed at intelligent and skilled players that yes, does EXCLUDE players who aren't elite or endgame.
5) Come back to neverwinter and stop complaining, because you realize that most of the content panders for players like you here.
In this game, most of the content is aimed towards casual players, so stop complaining about the 1% of the content that is aimed at 5% of the playerbase that the other 95% of the playerbase can't do, because guess what, 99% of the remaining content is aimed towards people like you.
Not all of the content is aimed at all of the players. I dislike PVP in most games, I will admit I probably suck at it, but I don't complain that PVP players are getting new pvp content that I can't do, because guess what, that content was designed for them. Yes, it excludes me, so what, not everything in the game, or the world for that matter, should cater for my wants. The same is true for you, or anyone else who isn't in a position where they can complete the t2 dungeons. So what if you can't complete them, there are enough people who can, who say that the content is fine, who it was clearly aimed for. The dungeons should not be doable by the average joe and certainly not the pug groups and I personally strongly advocate the fixing of those exploits in eCC so no-one except those skilled enough to complete them can get them completed. You are not entitled to those gear drops in t2 dungeons and heck, they aren't even a major improvement to your gear. Risk vs return, its far more profitable to farm t1's then t2;s, so I don't see why you even complaining.
Completing a t2 should be an achievement, not something, "pug groups can do" or "any random group can do" and atm, they are an achievement. And the first person who claims "you got OP gear yada yada yada" can inspect my characters, my highest geared char has no higher then rank 8's and less then 2.5k ilvl. The majority of my toons have 2000-2.1k ilvl, I am defending the status quo and I meet your under 2.5k requirement, I have never had a toon with over 2.5k ilvl, I am proof that your claims of only overgeared players can do it is a lie.
Now, to anyone else who wants to complain about this, here are some general guidelines, since i haven't actually seen this from anyone who has come forward and complained.
1) Why should a random group be able to do it, when its content aimed at the best players and isn't even really rewarding?
2) Why is it important that you be able to do this dungeon.
3) Definitive proof that it is Not possible to complete these t2 dungeons with 2k ilvl.
4) Reasons why the minimum requirement of 2k ilvl implies that it is also the recommended requirement.
5) Some structured counter arguments to my arguments, as well as mamaluke's, as well as everyone elses, going back to the start of mod 6 when diogene was still arguing this case.
Finally, this is what I have to say:
Until you have completed it, stop complaining about it. If you can't complete it, it says nothing, its aimed at better players then you. If you have completed it legit, then by all means, complain about it constructively, you have earned the right to complain about it.
All i have seen so far is butthurt people whining that they can't do everything and everything in the game, because everything should be about them.
/rant ends.
Would you care to show where anyone working for Cryptic stated that T2 was only meant for 5% of the player base ? Its also probably more accurate to say that 0.1% of the player base does T2 "legit", and I say "legit" because permanent Paladin shielding or buggy Lostmauth sets are also taking advantage of bad coding just as much as getting enemies to go through invisible force fields is.
I know what Cryptic has clearly stated however, they have stated that every party combination should be able to succeed, that is currently not the case. Saying one did ECC with a trapper ranger, protection paladin, virtuous cleric, trans vorpals and feats x, y, z blah blah blah - is not evidence of skill its evidence that the game allows one to play in a very narrow range of possibilities. The boss should be beaten by any combination of classes, any combination of feats and any combination items, if that is not the case then the game is breaking its own design principles.
This game is not Starcraft 2 or online chess, if you want to boast about your game play prowess play those games, showing off ones "skill" here is not impressive at all. This game is riddled with bugs, its got things that don't work as stated and has a very big list of imbalance issues. What keeps it going is the D&D title, when the meme starts to build that this game is pay to win and winnable by a very small amount, how can any good come out of that ?
Tell me, if the t2 dungeons aren't the dungeons aimed towards that 1% of the playerbase, then where are those dungeons, or that content for that matter. A game should try to market towards itself towards as many different types of players as possible, if the T2 dungeons aren't aimed towards skillful or elite players, then what dungeons are exactly? We have metric boatloads of content aimed towards all other kinds of players and you want to take less then 1% of the games content (yes, it is less then 1%) that is actually challenging and nerf it because everything should be aimed at everyone?
So we got ONE video and requirements 2K is was too high, I expect to see thousands videos when 2K itemlevel party complets,
eCC
eGWD
eTOS
, minority is not equal to majority or was that opposite?
Do you really think everybody records their runs? Or do you think thousands parties will record and upload the 2k videos JUST so you can see and believe? No, its not going to happen. And Im sure these videos wont help - people will pick on things they dont like and request new videos done without this and that until players will be forced to play like in hck'n'slash - run forward and mindlessly mash buttons. Also, these dungeons are supposed to be end game - they are meant to be done successfully by minority and failed by majority - they are test of gear / mechanic / coordination, they were never supposed to be easy and doable by average Joe
Your answer proves nothing but that majority of players should look other games and minority should keep this game going. It is also proven by steam statistic shows situation very well and for that I dont need videos.
I miss old dungeons and fun runs with them, doable bosses with proper tactic with random teams when allmost any combination worked if just told players "how to do it"... so 95% of us need look around and I agree with that.
/rant begins
You know what you need to do:
1) Go play path of exile/ world of warcraft.
2) Realize that the content in those games is much harder then it is here
3) Whine, complain and moan about it on the forums
4) Get laughed at, by a player base that realize that the game should have hard content aimed at intelligent and skilled players that yes, does EXCLUDE players who aren't elite or endgame.
5) Come back to neverwinter and stop complaining, because you realize that most of the content panders for players like you here.
In this game, most of the content is aimed towards casual players, so stop complaining about the 1% of the content that is aimed at 5% of the playerbase that the other 95% of the playerbase can't do, because guess what, 99% of the remaining content is aimed towards people like you.
Not all of the content is aimed at all of the players. I dislike PVP in most games, I will admit I probably suck at it, but I don't complain that PVP players are getting new pvp content that I can't do, because guess what, that content was designed for them. Yes, it excludes me, so what, not everything in the game, or the world for that matter, should cater for my wants. The same is true for you, or anyone else who isn't in a position where they can complete the t2 dungeons. So what if you can't complete them, there are enough people who can, who say that the content is fine, who it was clearly aimed for. The dungeons should not be doable by the average joe and certainly not the pug groups and I personally strongly advocate the fixing of those exploits in eCC so no-one except those skilled enough to complete them can get them completed. You are not entitled to those gear drops in t2 dungeons and heck, they aren't even a major improvement to your gear. Risk vs return, its far more profitable to farm t1's then t2;s, so I don't see why you even complaining.
Completing a t2 should be an achievement, not something, "pug groups can do" or "any random group can do" and atm, they are an achievement. And the first person who claims "you got OP gear yada yada yada" can inspect my characters, my highest geared char has no higher then rank 8's and less then 2.5k ilvl. The majority of my toons have 2000-2.1k ilvl, I am defending the status quo and I meet your under 2.5k requirement, I have never had a toon with over 2.5k ilvl, I am proof that your claims of only overgeared players can do it is a lie.
Now, to anyone else who wants to complain about this, here are some general guidelines, since i haven't actually seen this from anyone who has come forward and complained.
1) Why should a random group be able to do it, when its content aimed at the best players and isn't even really rewarding?
2) Why is it important that you be able to do this dungeon.
3) Definitive proof that it is Not possible to complete these t2 dungeons with 2k ilvl.
4) Reasons why the minimum requirement of 2k ilvl implies that it is also the recommended requirement.
5) Some structured counter arguments to my arguments, as well as mamaluke's, as well as everyone elses, going back to the start of mod 6 when diogene was still arguing this case.
Finally, this is what I have to say:
Until you have completed it, stop complaining about it. If you can't complete it, it says nothing, its aimed at better players then you. If you have completed it legit, then by all means, complain about it constructively, you have earned the right to complain about it.
All i have seen so far is butthurt people whining that they can't do everything and everything in the game, because everything should be about them.
/rant ends.
Would you care to show where anyone working for Cryptic stated that T2 was only meant for 5% of the player base ? Its also probably more accurate to say that 0.1% of the player base does T2 "legit", and I say "legit" because permanent Paladin shielding or buggy Lostmauth sets are also taking advantage of bad coding just as much as getting enemies to go through invisible force fields is.
I know what Cryptic has clearly stated however, they have stated that every party combination should be able to succeed, that is currently not the case. Saying one did ECC with a trapper ranger, protection paladin, virtuous cleric, trans vorpals and feats x, y, z blah blah blah - is not evidence of skill its evidence that the game allows one to play in a very narrow range of possibilities. The boss should be beaten by any combination of classes, any combination of feats and any combination items, if that is not the case then the game is breaking its own design principles.
This game is not Starcraft 2 or online chess, if you want to boast about your game play prowess play those games, showing off ones "skill" here is not impressive at all. This game is riddled with bugs, its got things that don't work as stated and has a very big list of imbalance issues. What keeps it going is the D&D title, when the meme starts to build that this game is pay to win and winnable by a very small amount, how can any good come out of that ?
Tell me, if the t2 dungeons aren't the dungeons aimed towards that 1% of the playerbase, then where are those dungeons, or that content for that matter. A game should try to market towards itself towards as many different types of players as possible, if the T2 dungeons aren't aimed towards skillful or elite players, then what dungeons are exactly? We have metric boatloads of content aimed towards all other kinds of players and you want to take less then 1% of the games content (yes, it is less then 1%) that is actually challenging and nerf it because everything should be aimed at everyone?
If the content was aimed at 1% you'd have something dumb like 30-60 players on at any time that could actually complete it.
And your whole argument ignores the fact that basically all content in the game is aimed at making it possible to play the content you think only 1% of the playerbase should be able to play. The idea that only 1% of the playerbase should be able to complete that 5% essentially invalidates all of the other content once they've completed it. This doesn't even get into the fact that large parts of that content are already invalidated because you blow through them so quickly that you actually skip some of it because it's a waste of time.
So we got ONE video and requirements 2K is was too high, I expect to see thousands videos when 2K itemlevel party complets,
eCC
eGWD
eTOS
, minority is not equal to majority or was that opposite?
Do you really think everybody records their runs? Or do you think thousands parties will record and upload the 2k videos JUST so you can see and believe? No, its not going to happen. And Im sure these videos wont help - people will pick on things they dont like and request new videos done without this and that until players will be forced to play like in hck'n'slash - run forward and mindlessly mash buttons. Also, these dungeons are supposed to be end game - they are meant to be done successfully by minority and failed by majority - they are test of gear / mechanic / coordination, they were never supposed to be easy and doable by average Joe
Your answer proves nothing but that majority of players should look other games and minority should keep this game going. It is also proven by steam statistic shows situation very well and for that I dont need videos.
I miss old dungeons and fun runs with them, doable bosses with proper tactic with random teams when allmost any combination worked if just told players "how to do it"... so 95% of us need look around and I agree with that.
/rant begins
You know what you need to do:
1) Go play path of exile/ world of warcraft.
2) Realize that the content in those games is much harder then it is here
3) Whine, complain and moan about it on the forums
4) Get laughed at, by a player base that realize that the game should have hard content aimed at intelligent and skilled players that yes, does EXCLUDE players who aren't elite or endgame.
5) Come back to neverwinter and stop complaining, because you realize that most of the content panders for players like you here.
In this game, most of the content is aimed towards casual players, so stop complaining about the 1% of the content that is aimed at 5% of the playerbase that the other 95% of the playerbase can't do, because guess what, 99% of the remaining content is aimed towards people like you.
Not all of the content is aimed at all of the players. I dislike PVP in most games, I will admit I probably suck at it, but I don't complain that PVP players are getting new pvp content that I can't do, because guess what, that content was designed for them. Yes, it excludes me, so what, not everything in the game, or the world for that matter, should cater for my wants. The same is true for you, or anyone else who isn't in a position where they can complete the t2 dungeons. So what if you can't complete them, there are enough people who can, who say that the content is fine, who it was clearly aimed for. The dungeons should not be doable by the average joe and certainly not the pug groups and I personally strongly advocate the fixing of those exploits in eCC so no-one except those skilled enough to complete them can get them completed. You are not entitled to those gear drops in t2 dungeons and heck, they aren't even a major improvement to your gear. Risk vs return, its far more profitable to farm t1's then t2;s, so I don't see why you even complaining.
Completing a t2 should be an achievement, not something, "pug groups can do" or "any random group can do" and atm, they are an achievement. And the first person who claims "you got OP gear yada yada yada" can inspect my characters, my highest geared char has no higher then rank 8's and less then 2.5k ilvl. The majority of my toons have 2000-2.1k ilvl, I am defending the status quo and I meet your under 2.5k requirement, I have never had a toon with over 2.5k ilvl, I am proof that your claims of only overgeared players can do it is a lie.
Now, to anyone else who wants to complain about this, here are some general guidelines, since i haven't actually seen this from anyone who has come forward and complained.
1) Why should a random group be able to do it, when its content aimed at the best players and isn't even really rewarding?
2) Why is it important that you be able to do this dungeon.
3) Definitive proof that it is Not possible to complete these t2 dungeons with 2k ilvl.
4) Reasons why the minimum requirement of 2k ilvl implies that it is also the recommended requirement.
5) Some structured counter arguments to my arguments, as well as mamaluke's, as well as everyone elses, going back to the start of mod 6 when diogene was still arguing this case.
Finally, this is what I have to say:
Until you have completed it, stop complaining about it. If you can't complete it, it says nothing, its aimed at better players then you. If you have completed it legit, then by all means, complain about it constructively, you have earned the right to complain about it.
All i have seen so far is butthurt people whining that they can't do everything and everything in the game, because everything should be about them.
/rant ends.
Would you care to show where anyone working for Cryptic stated that T2 was only meant for 5% of the player base ? Its also probably more accurate to say that 0.1% of the player base does T2 "legit", and I say "legit" because permanent Paladin shielding or buggy Lostmauth sets are also taking advantage of bad coding just as much as getting enemies to go through invisible force fields is.
I know what Cryptic has clearly stated however, they have stated that every party combination should be able to succeed, that is currently not the case. Saying one did ECC with a trapper ranger, protection paladin, virtuous cleric, trans vorpals and feats x, y, z blah blah blah - is not evidence of skill its evidence that the game allows one to play in a very narrow range of possibilities. The boss should be beaten by any combination of classes, any combination of feats and any combination items, if that is not the case then the game is breaking its own design principles.
This game is not Starcraft 2 or online chess, if you want to boast about your game play prowess play those games, showing off ones "skill" here is not impressive at all. This game is riddled with bugs, its got things that don't work as stated and has a very big list of imbalance issues. What keeps it going is the D&D title, when the meme starts to build that this game is pay to win and winnable by a very small amount, how can any good come out of that ?
Tell me, if the t2 dungeons aren't the dungeons aimed towards that 1% of the playerbase, then where are those dungeons, or that content for that matter. A game should try to market towards itself towards as many different types of players as possible, if the T2 dungeons aren't aimed towards skillful or elite players, then what dungeons are exactly? We have metric boatloads of content aimed towards all other kinds of players and you want to take less then 1% of the games content (yes, it is less then 1%) that is actually challenging and nerf it because everything should be aimed at everyone?
If the content was aimed at 1% you'd have something dumb like 30-60 players on at any time that could actually complete it.
And your whole argument ignores the fact that basically all content in the game is aimed at making it possible to play the content you think only 1% of the playerbase should be able to play.
T2 epics is done for 1% of us, I think it is more likely 0.1% because I dont see many "legits" to run it... maybe "legit channel" can give better output for this?
I saw some discussion where "Legit players" mentioned that "eCC can be done LEGIT" so they tried hard and got success after several tries so it must be easy then?(not even speak gear, I think it matters not for that end boss)
Aaaaaaaaand it's been done. A full 2k party completed eTOS, no wipes, easily done. Now you can grief and argue about 101 things, we stripped down to 2k to prove a point. All of my guildies in this video are originally around 2.5k in reality except for me. It can be done, it's time to stop whining and achieve better results. If you can't play your class or the game and expect t2's (endgame dungeons) to be done easily by pugs and no coordination, switch to another game. Skill compensates for the lack of gear.
Aaaaaaaaand it's been done. A full 2k party completed eTOS, no wipes, easily done. Now you can grief and argue about 101 things, we stripped down to 2k to prove a point. All of my guildies in this video are originally around 2.5k in reality except for me. It can be done, it's time to stop whining and achieve better results. If you can't play your class or the game and expect t2's (endgame dungeons) to be done easily by pugs and no coordination, switch to another game. Skill compensates for the lack of gear.
Lol and there we go, people complaining again. I stripped my Ioun stone completely except for my Profanes, no gear at all on it, I didn't have close to the RI cap or what's needed to kill any of the bosses. Stop whining, seriously, you're making a fool out of yourself.
*note - we did have a power buff from one of the paladins, so there.
Lol and there we go, people complaining again. I stripped my Ioun stone completely except for my Profanes, no gear at all on it, I didn't have close to the RI cap or what's needed to kill any of the bosses. Stop whining, seriously, you're making a fool out of yourself.
All you did was fudge numbers and show that GS is a poor representation of what stats you can get from items.
You asked for 2k. We stripped down to 2k. Now you're going to start making absurd recommendations like, "do it without weapon enchants, do it without soulforged, do it without augments, do it without paladins, etc etc."
If nothing else we proved that item level doesn't have the fallacious value everyone attributes to it. So stop complaining about it, stat yourselves properly, spec yourselves properly, play with others who do the same and you'll succeed.
Neverwinter Module 6: The only MMO expansion in the history of MMO's to remove more content than it added.
Aaaaaaaaand it's been done. A full 2k party completed eTOS, no wipes, easily done. Now you can grief and argue about 101 things, we stripped down to 2k to prove a point. All of my guildies in this video are originally around 2.5k in reality except for me. It can be done, it's time to stop whining and achieve better results. If you can't play your class or the game and expect t2's (endgame dungeons) to be done easily by pugs and no coordination, switch to another game. Skill compensates for the lack of gear.
I have item level 2.5K, but those dungeons are out of my reach because my gear(artifact etc.) are casual state, you guys collect optimal team and then you say, EASY.
This game died after mod6 difficulty set, it was fast fading before that if you just look steamdata... eCC, eTOS, eGWD are for 0.1% of this game players and it is proven that those dungeons are not "EASY".
...but it is entertaining read this conversation where minority want became majority, .
You dont need rank 10's to do VT, if VT is hard at all for you, then you suck at your class. that applies to any dungeon nowadays. its not your gear but how you play your class.
Doesnt change. we could have done this if we had alt characters of the same class with actual 2k gear, like non-alliance blue drops. but there is no reason to do that.could of done it without weapon enchants and soulforge. it doesnt change anything. we have several hundred guildies completing all t2 dungeons legit and in a fast manner and they arent even high up in the IL ladder.
You know, you can get power that high by picking items that give high amounts of power... And having a OP/DC with the Power sharing feat in your party....
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thefabricantMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 5,248Arc User
Aaaaaaaaand it's been done. A full 2k party completed eTOS, no wipes, easily done. Now you can grief and argue about 101 things, we stripped down to 2k to prove a point. All of my guildies in this video are originally around 2.5k in reality except for me. It can be done, it's time to stop whining and achieve better results. If you can't play your class or the game and expect t2's (endgame dungeons) to be done easily by pugs and no coordination, switch to another game. Skill compensates for the lack of gear.
Comments
/rant begins
You know what you need to do:
1) Go play path of exile/ world of warcraft.
2) Realize that the content in those games is much harder then it is here
3) Whine, complain and moan about it on the forums
4) Get laughed at, by a player base that realize that the game should have hard content aimed at intelligent and skilled players that yes, does EXCLUDE players who aren't elite or endgame.
5) Come back to neverwinter and stop complaining, because you realize that most of the content panders for players like you here.
In this game, most of the content is aimed towards casual players, so stop complaining about the 1% of the content that is aimed at 5% of the playerbase that the other 95% of the playerbase can't do, because guess what, 99% of the remaining content is aimed towards people like you.
Not all of the content is aimed at all of the players. I dislike PVP in most games, I will admit I probably suck at it, but I don't complain that PVP players are getting new pvp content that I can't do, because guess what, that content was designed for them. Yes, it excludes me, so what, not everything in the game, or the world for that matter, should cater for my wants. The same is true for you, or anyone else who isn't in a position where they can complete the t2 dungeons. So what if you can't complete them, there are enough people who can, who say that the content is fine, who it was clearly aimed for. The dungeons should not be doable by the average joe and certainly not the pug groups and I personally strongly advocate the fixing of those exploits in eCC so no-one except those skilled enough to complete them can get them completed. You are not entitled to those gear drops in t2 dungeons and heck, they aren't even a major improvement to your gear. Risk vs return, its far more profitable to farm t1's then t2;s, so I don't see why you even complaining.
Completing a t2 should be an achievement, not something, "pug groups can do" or "any random group can do" and atm, they are an achievement. And the first person who claims "you got OP gear yada yada yada" can inspect my characters, my highest geared char has no higher then rank 8's and less then 2.5k ilvl. The majority of my toons have 2000-2.1k ilvl, I am defending the status quo and I meet your under 2.5k requirement, I have never had a toon with over 2.5k ilvl, I am proof that your claims of only overgeared players can do it is a lie.
Now, to anyone else who wants to complain about this, here are some general guidelines, since i haven't actually seen this from anyone who has come forward and complained.
1) Why should a random group be able to do it, when its content aimed at the best players and isn't even really rewarding?
2) Why is it important that you be able to do this dungeon.
3) Definitive proof that it is Not possible to complete these t2 dungeons with 2k ilvl.
4) Reasons why the minimum requirement of 2k ilvl implies that it is also the recommended requirement.
5) Some structured counter arguments to my arguments, as well as mamaluke's, as well as everyone elses, going back to the start of mod 6 when diogene was still arguing this case.
Finally, this is what I have to say:
Until you have completed it, stop complaining about it. If you can't complete it, it says nothing, its aimed at better players then you. If you have completed it legit, then by all means, complain about it constructively, you have earned the right to complain about it.
All i have seen so far is butthurt people whining that they can't do everything and everything in the game, because everything should be about them.
/rant ends.
Wow, out of everything that was written you picked up on that thing? I guess the constructive argument is over then. I presumed you read the whole thread, or at least a few posts directly above yours, so I didnt feel I had to say:"Claim and are going to prove it soon".
P.S. What was your point then? That they cant do it? What are you going to do when they post a video? Just curious.
Would you care to show where anyone working for Cryptic stated that T2 was only meant for 5% of the player base ? Its also probably more accurate to say that 0.1% of the player base does T2 "legit", and I say "legit" because permanent Paladin shielding or buggy Lostmauth sets are also taking advantage of bad coding just as much as getting enemies to go through invisible force fields is.
I know what Cryptic has clearly stated however, they have stated that every party combination should be able to succeed, that is currently not the case. Saying one did ECC with a trapper ranger, protection paladin, virtuous cleric, trans vorpals and feats x, y, z blah blah blah - is not evidence of skill its evidence that the game allows one to play in a very narrow range of possibilities. The boss should be beaten by any combination of classes, any combination of feats and any combination items, if that is not the case then the game is breaking its own design principles.
This game is not Starcraft 2 or online chess, if you want to boast about your game play prowess play those games, showing off ones "skill" here is not impressive at all. This game is riddled with bugs, its got things that don't work as stated and has a very big list of imbalance issues. What keeps it going is the D&D title, when the meme starts to build that this game is pay to win and winnable by a very small amount, how can any good come out of that ?
You can blow through that 95% of content in half a year. And that's with most of it gated behind daily and weekly quests. If cryptic really intended to gate the remaining 5% for 1% of their player base they'd be intentionally bleeding players. Maybe that's their goal but it's a bad business model.
I think you're a little confused as to why anyone is asking for proof that it's possible at 2k.
Fabricant said it was "easy" to do with a group at 2k ilvl. So we asked him to show that it's "easy".
lol I'm going to tell you exactly what he's going to do - he's going to point out every single thing we didn't do as 2k's (having boons, augments, legendary whatever) and try to dispute and make the whole video look like it's a sham. I 100% predict that, mark my words.
The Holy Crusaders guild leader ♚ Mod 10 PVE Destroyer GWF guide ♚ Founding member of the Relentless Alliance
Of coarse they will, because they are in the "limited thought process, it can't be done so you must be cheating" category of people. It is not about us proving that it can be done, all it is, is them wanting it nerfed. Even if we posted 10 videos of it, each different, we would only hear the different excuses as to why the runs don't count. At the end of the day, they expect us to pander to their "infallible" logical conclusions without them making any concessions or attempt to understand ours.
I think she dont have to do, it is allready proven here,
, proven that it wont happen or it may happen for 0.1% off players and look steamstat how BIG this game playerbase is...
Tell me, if the t2 dungeons aren't the dungeons aimed towards that 1% of the playerbase, then where are those dungeons, or that content for that matter. A game should try to market towards itself towards as many different types of players as possible, if the T2 dungeons aren't aimed towards skillful or elite players, then what dungeons are exactly? We have metric boatloads of content aimed towards all other kinds of players and you want to take less then 1% of the games content (yes, it is less then 1%) that is actually challenging and nerf it because everything should be aimed at everyone?
If the content was aimed at 1% you'd have something dumb like 30-60 players on at any time that could actually complete it.
And your whole argument ignores the fact that basically all content in the game is aimed at making it possible to play the content you think only 1% of the playerbase should be able to play. The idea that only 1% of the playerbase should be able to complete that 5% essentially invalidates all of the other content once they've completed it. This doesn't even get into the fact that large parts of that content are already invalidated because you blow through them so quickly that you actually skip some of it because it's a waste of time.
I saw some discussion where "Legit players" mentioned that "eCC can be done LEGIT" so they tried hard and got success after several tries so it must be easy then?(not even speak gear, I think it matters not for that end boss)
This is the video.
The Holy Crusaders guild leader ♚ Mod 10 PVE Destroyer GWF guide ♚ Founding member of the Relentless Alliance
17k power and 11k crit on the GWF with lostmauth's set ...
Heck, that 85 points over 2k could easily be a Transcendant Vorpal.
*note - we did have a power buff from one of the paladins, so there.
The Holy Crusaders guild leader ♚ Mod 10 PVE Destroyer GWF guide ♚ Founding member of the Relentless Alliance
All you did was fudge numbers and show that GS is a poor representation of what stats you can get from items.
If nothing else we proved that item level doesn't have the fallacious value everyone attributes to it. So stop complaining about it, stat yourselves properly, spec yourselves properly, play with others who do the same and you'll succeed.
This game died after mod6 difficulty set, it was fast fading before that if you just look steamdata... eCC, eTOS, eGWD are for 0.1% of this game players and it is proven that those dungeons are not "EASY".
...but it is entertaining read this conversation where minority want became majority,
That was fun to watch, I am almost tempted to join you guys simply because of how nice the guild/team interaction was. GG to you guys.