Before nerfing dungeons they have to fix the classes. Paladins/dc/sw are broken. Gwf + lost set is broken. Hell some may say hr trapper is broken with permadazing effect. Considering all that kinda funny to see all this legit/not legit <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>. What cause of some poor design we shouldn't play with classes we have fun playing with? All the t2s can be very easy with certain party combination. We did eGwd the other day.. 2 op tanks, gf buffbot (no kv), cw, sw. Not the fastest but 1 of the easiest runs ever. No bis gear yet almost complete faceroll. CC final boss died in less than 3 min (op tank, cw renegade, dc, gwf, sw). Same 2.5-3.2k group. I finished all t2s with classic 1 tank 1 heal 3 dps groups either. Not 2k but 2.5-3.2k. But again 2k reqs mean u can enter the dungeon no1 ever said u can easily complete it with full 2k group. Haven't tried gwd/cc without op tank but did many eTos runs with gf tanking. A little harder but still doable if ppl actually know what they are doing. Also a good hr in the party saves a lot of troubles. Fox cunning forever Now if they nerf t2 dungeons without fixing some if not all classes it will be same as going back to mod 5 for many ppl. Yeah it was fun to solo cn for a while but its MMO and should be played as such. Join a good guild, make some friends that can help u with pve. Try different party compositions. But don't go in with t1 blue gear, green/blue artifacts & r5s expecting it to be a picnic. Cause it wasn't even back in mods 1-2 before all insane stats of a new gear. Its so much easier to get enchantments, epic/legendary artifacts now. Oh forgot about DR bug that cause a tank or any1 else who took enough dmg to get 200% effectiveness hits from mobs. Once fixed ti will make thing easier.
can't believe people are still claiming you can't complete any t2's unless bis. absolutely ridiculous. i've seen so many groups beating all three t2 dungeons even without me being involved (seeing i'm not in the 2k range.) all players were in those situations were skilled and were aware of the tactics. it's been a whole mod, i honestly think it's time for people to stop crying and start doing better as players. gear is not an excuse anymore, it can be done and it's been proven plenty of times. etos is a walk in the park, you don't need a paladin, you need a proper tank, a gf is absolutely fine. hell you don't even need a tank if the cc is good and the healer is alert enough, a gwf can tank the boss beautifully just fine. eCC is easier than GWD from my point of view, GWD requires a lot of patience and tactics while the other two are simply zerg styled.
Before nerfing dungeons they have to fix the classes. Paladins/dc/sw are broken. Gwf + lost set is broken. Hell some may say hr trapper is broken with permadazing effect. Considering all that kinda funny to see all this legit/not legit <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>. What cause of some poor design we shouldn't play with classes we have fun playing with? All the t2s can be very easy with certain party combination. We did eGwd the other day.. 2 op tanks, gf buffbot (no kv), cw, sw. Not the fastest but 1 of the easiest runs ever. No bis gear yet almost complete faceroll. CC final boss died in less than 3 min (op tank, cw renegade, dc, gwf, sw). Same 2.5-3.2k group. I finished all t2s with classic 1 tank 1 heal 3 dps groups either. Not 2k but 2.5-3.2k. But again 2k reqs mean u can enter the dungeon no1 ever said u can easily complete it with full 2k group. Haven't tried gwd/cc without op tank but did many eTos runs with gf tanking. A little harder but still doable if ppl actually know what they are doing. Also a good hr in the party saves a lot of troubles. Fox cunning forever Now if they nerf t2 dungeons without fixing some if not all classes it will be same as going back to mod 5 for many ppl. Yeah it was fun to solo cn for a while but its MMO and should be played as such. Join a good guild, make some friends that can help u with pve. Try different party compositions. But don't go in with t1 blue gear, green/blue artifacts & r5s expecting it to be a picnic. Cause it wasn't even back in mods 1-2 before all insane stats of a new gear. Its so much easier to get enchantments, epic/legendary artifacts now. Oh forgot about DR bug that cause a tank or any1 else who took enough dmg to get 200% effectiveness hits from mobs. Once fixed ti will make thing easier.
Why do people not read? Someone did say exactly that.
I've attempted eToS a few times with a 2.4 range team. It's not possible. The damage output is too low and there's no way in hell to NOT make 1 mistake for 20-30 min, the tank is eventually going to die. A spider from time to time would target me on spawning while at the mercy of the boss moving when and where she pleases. One eventually got behind me while I was focused on the boss and killed me.
Thats just because you got a bad team then, not because its not possible. etos is super easy and even now I could arrange a group that can do it with 2k.
A full 2k group can do it, it has been done, I have done it with 1 group and I am sure there are others who have done it as well. Have I done it recently? no, because none of the really good team pve players I used to run with play anymore, so I can't form a group to do a 2k run to demonstrate. I got old demo record runs of low 3k runs, if you really so sure that only a 4k group can do it, but unless I can convince some old friends to join me, organizing a 2k run is out of the question unless I can find some really good players to do it with.
I've attempted eToS a few times with a 2.4 range team. It's not possible. The damage output is too low and there's no way in hell to NOT make 1 mistake for 20-30 min, the tank is eventually going to die. A spider from time to time would target me on spawning while at the mercy of the boss moving when and where she pleases. One eventually got behind me while I was focused on the boss and killed me.
Thats just because you got a bad team then, not because its not possible. etos is super easy and even now I could arrange a group that can do it with 2k.
So record it and prove everyone wrong : |
Better have a large hard drive for that three hour long video.
I want see 2K Itemlevel team do, LEGIT,
eTOS
eCC
eGWD
, 45min per dungeon (can be longer too).
Make videos and send link, then I agree that 95% of current players are just too bad to complete those dungeons and all should go play other games, right?!
I've attempted eToS a few times with a 2.4 range team. It's not possible. The damage output is too low and there's no way in hell to NOT make 1 mistake for 20-30 min, the tank is eventually going to die. A spider from time to time would target me on spawning while at the mercy of the boss moving when and where she pleases. One eventually got behind me while I was focused on the boss and killed me.
Thats just because you got a bad team then, not because its not possible. etos is super easy and even now I could arrange a group that can do it with 2k.
So record it and prove everyone wrong : |
Better have a large hard drive for that three hour long video.
I've attempted eToS a few times with a 2.4 range team. It's not possible. The damage output is too low and there's no way in hell to NOT make 1 mistake for 20-30 min, the tank is eventually going to die. A spider from time to time would target me on spawning while at the mercy of the boss moving when and where she pleases. One eventually got behind me while I was focused on the boss and killed me.
Thats just because you got a bad team then, not because its not possible. etos is super easy and even now I could arrange a group that can do it with 2k.
So record it and prove everyone wrong : |
Better have a large hard drive for that three hour long video.
I want see 2K Itemlevel team do, LEGIT,
eTOS
eCC
eGWD
, 45min per dungeon (can be longer too).
Make videos and send link, then I agree that 95% of current players are just too bad to complete those dungeons and all should go play other games, right?!
the TR and the one of the HR's are barely over 3k in there, rest are below 2.5k.
Math isn't exactly your strong side, no?
2.5-parties are mostly capable enough, that's not the matter of the dispute. 2.0, the entry level for T2 dungeons, was what is doubted to be possible. I guess if all are below 2.2 an entry might have some acceptable merit...
2.5-parties are mostly capable enough, that's not the matter of the dispute. 2.0, the entry level for T2 dungeons, was what is doubted to be possible. I guess if all are below 2.2 an entry might have some acceptable merit...
Math isn't my strong side? What about your brains? He never said strictly 2,000k toons, he said 2k, which generally is in a range between 2k and 3k. While I did admit two of the party members were a little above 3k, if you fail to understand the point you should think of your choices. The arguement here is a debate about whether this can be DONE, not EASILY done. Hell we did a naked eLOL run, a weapon, artifacts, and one extrenal companions, all party memebers had 800 Item level and above. We won. It takes skill, drop the gear arguments, you'll lose. More over - I'm willing to shoot a video of a naked eTOS run with my guildies, everyone will strip to just under 2k for lolz, and I assure you - it'll be done.
2.5-parties are mostly capable enough, that's not the matter of the dispute. 2.0, the entry level for T2 dungeons, was what is doubted to be possible. I guess if all are below 2.2 an entry might have some acceptable merit...
Math isn't my strong side? What about your brains? He never said strictly 2,000k toons, he said 2k, which generally is in a range between 2k and 3k. While I did admit two of the party members were a little above 3k, if you fail to understand the point you should think of your choices. The arguement here is a debate about whether this can be DONE, not EASILY done. Hell we did a naked eLOL run, a weapon, artifacts, and one extrenal companions, all party memebers had 800 Item level and above. We won. It takes skill, drop the gear arguments, you'll lose.
Fabricant is in this thread saying that it can be easily done. That's what the post you quoted was responding too and yes he did say 2k. Not 3k and 2.5k.
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clericalistMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 595Arc User
2.5-parties are mostly capable enough, that's not the matter of the dispute. 2.0, the entry level for T2 dungeons, was what is doubted to be possible. I guess if all are below 2.2 an entry might have some acceptable merit...
Math isn't my strong side? What about your brains? He never said strictly 2,000k toons, he said 2k, which generally is in a range between 2k and 3k. While I did admit two of the party members were a little above 3k, if you fail to understand the point you should think of your choices. The arguement here is a debate about whether this can be DONE, not EASILY done. Hell we did a naked eLOL run, a weapon, artifacts, and one extrenal companions, all party memebers had 800 Item level and above. We won. It takes skill, drop the gear arguments, you'll lose. More over - I'm willing to shoot a video of a naked eTOS run with my guildies, everyone will strip to just under 2k for lolz, and I assure you - it'll be done.
He very clearly said 2k item level, not 2k - 3k range. Post a link showing a party with 2k level (and no, 2999 does not count, the highest level allowed is 2100).
2.5-parties are mostly capable enough, that's not the matter of the dispute. 2.0, the entry level for T2 dungeons, was what is doubted to be possible. I guess if all are below 2.2 an entry might have some acceptable merit...
Math isn't my strong side? What about your brains? He never said strictly 2,000k toons, he said 2k, which generally is in a range between 2k and 3k. While I did admit two of the party members were a little above 3k, if you fail to understand the point you should think of your choices. The arguement here is a debate about whether this can be DONE, not EASILY done. Hell we did a naked eLOL run, a weapon, artifacts, and one extrenal companions, all party memebers had 800 Item level and above. We won. It takes skill, drop the gear arguments, you'll lose. More over - I'm willing to shoot a video of a naked eTOS run with my guildies, everyone will strip to just under 2k for lolz, and I assure you - it'll be done.
He very clearly said 2k item level, not 2k - 3k range. Post a link showing a party with 2k level (and no, 2999 does not count, the highest level allowed is 2100).
2.5-parties are mostly capable enough, that's not the matter of the dispute. 2.0, the entry level for T2 dungeons, was what is doubted to be possible. I guess if all are below 2.2 an entry might have some acceptable merit...
Math isn't my strong side? What about your brains? He never said strictly 2,000k toons, he said 2k, which generally is in a range between 2k and 3k. [...]
IDK where your Generals are from, but math apparently isn't their strong side, either...
With the utmost goodwill, 2k might be constructed as a rounded thing - not integer-capped. Then we'd still talk about "below 2.5k". Which however is NOT the topic of this thread. That is - quite clearly - "Can a T2 DD be accomplished with a group where all members just clear the entry level (2.0k)?"
Frankly, whoever doubts that a 2.5k-average, meaningfully composed, competent party can run these dungeons with sufficient skill should really reevealuate their builds or playstyle. OK, probably not 2.5 ILvl HR/SW-only parties, maybe.
Also not sure if not trolling.
Edit:
Looking forward to your vid. BTW: Legit =/= Drag & Drop... ...at least where normally unpassable obstacles like magical barriers are to be transcended. Or put it straighter: Dragging Kallos Tam to the traps is legit, but not ____ - he shouldn't ever get there in the first place.
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thefabricantMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 5,248Arc User
2.5-parties are mostly capable enough, that's not the matter of the dispute. 2.0, the entry level for T2 dungeons, was what is doubted to be possible. I guess if all are below 2.2 an entry might have some acceptable merit...
Math isn't my strong side? What about your brains? He never said strictly 2,000k toons, he said 2k, which generally is in a range between 2k and 3k. While I did admit two of the party members were a little above 3k, if you fail to understand the point you should think of your choices. The arguement here is a debate about whether this can be DONE, not EASILY done. Hell we did a naked eLOL run, a weapon, artifacts, and one extrenal companions, all party memebers had 800 Item level and above. We won. It takes skill, drop the gear arguments, you'll lose. More over - I'm willing to shoot a video of a naked eTOS run with my guildies, everyone will strip to just under 2k for lolz, and I assure you - it'll be done.
He very clearly said 2k item level, not 2k - 3k range. Post a link showing a party with 2k level (and no, 2999 does not count, the highest level allowed is 2100).
If you down a CW, send me an invite Sharpedge@thefabricant. I can also come on heal OP, but that class is so buggy that I wouldn't recommend inviting me on it due to maintaining the integrity of the run. Also, my CW is MoF renegade atm, so your party will get the benefit of the smolder debuff as well as the buffs from ren. Since most of the people I play with actively have left, I have been looking for some people to run the high end dungeons with. Whilst I am unwilling to leave my guild (guild loyalty) I am willing to run with people from another guild, if they have a spot for me to run with them.
Keep in mind, if you all are talking about 2k item level you should also remember to include whether or not you think Boons should be allowed or not.
Having every single campaign boon unlocked on all of the party members (Sharandar, Dread Ring, Icewind Dale, Well of Dragons) can make a difference. Are you OK with people having boons as well when you say "2k item level exactly"?
@rinat114 As you are doing this, please also show the gear that everyone is wearing so that we can be assured that all the armour sets being used are those that are presently available in-game (e.g. Alliance, Elven.... no Fabled Illyanbruen, no Diabolist, no High Prophet, no Avatar of War, no High Vizier, no Draconic Templar, etc.). Thanks.
Keep in mind, if you all are talking about 2k item level you should also remember to include whether or not you think Boons should be allowed or not.
Having every single campaign boon unlocked on all of the party members (Sharandar, Dread Ring, Icewind Dale, Well of Dragons) can make a difference. Are you OK with people having boons as well when you say "2k item level exactly"?
Most party members won't even have full boons on their toon since they're around 2.5k on average in reality anyways. Plus no boon in either campaigns is going to make a difference between a wipe and a success in a T2, seriously, let's get real.
We're going to drop down to basic blue gear, basic enchantments, no old gear and no 'exploits' of any sort, just a simple eTOS. POV shooter will inspect everyone to show on the vid we're not bluffing.
Keep in mind, if you all are talking about 2k item level you should also remember to include whether or not you think Boons should be allowed or not.
Having every single campaign boon unlocked on all of the party members (Sharandar, Dread Ring, Icewind Dale, Well of Dragons) can make a difference. Are you OK with people having boons as well when you say "2k item level exactly"?
Yes all boons, but I think many are missing the point. Should taking on Blackdagger take as much time and effort as Kasparov studies chess ? Some contrived pre-made 2k party that has slotted things that random PUG don't slot and has exactly the right party setup proves what exactly ? A better demonstration is for somebody to provide proof that a PUG party beat Blackdagger and it does not even have to be a 2k party, I would be surprised if a 3k PUG did this.
If the argument is that PUGS should not be able to do ECC and that it requires a very specific party configuration that to me tells me that its too hard. I think a random 2k PUG party should have something like a 25% success rate, 2.5k a 40% success rate and 3k a 60% success rate, numbers around those levels, because currently the success rate is 0% for all of them, I doubt the game designers intended it to be like that.
Keep in mind, if you all are talking about 2k item level you should also remember to include whether or not you think Boons should be allowed or not.
Having every single campaign boon unlocked on all of the party members (Sharandar, Dread Ring, Icewind Dale, Well of Dragons) can make a difference. Are you OK with people having boons as well when you say "2k item level exactly"?
Yes all boons, but I think many are missing the point. Should taking on Blackdagger take as much time and effort as Kasparov studies chess ? Some contrived pre-made 2k party that has slotted things that random PUG don't slot and has exactly the right party setup proves what exactly ? A better demonstration is for somebody to provide proof that a PUG party beat Blackdagger and it does not even have to be a 2k party, I would be surprised if a 3k PUG did this.
If the argument is that PUGS should not be able to do ECC and that it requires a very specific party configuration that to me tells me that its too hard. I think a random 2k PUG party should have something like a 25% success rate, 2.5k a 40% success rate and 3k a 60% success rate, numbers around those levels, because currently the success rate is 0% for all of them, I doubt the game designers intended it to be like that.
Good god nobody said anything about pugs. Pugs don't communicate simply because they don't know each other or don't care enough to try. You don't get to cry that you failed a t2 dungeon after you willingly chose to pug it, entering a dungeon with strangers and little hope to win. Chances are obviously slim from the getgo.
I'll narrow down the argument because people seem to be lost here - People are claiming that a party of full 2k's (up to 2.1k, assuming the people know one another and are NOT pugs) cannot complete a T2 legit. What we're here to prove is that it's more than possible and that skill compensates over the lack of gear. No one expects a pug group to win eCC, let's get real. This whole thing scattered all over the place.
I don't personally think Boons make any difference, some people do.
In all honesty, I don't think people actually take the time to look at how much stats people have and only look at item level. I've seen people with 2.5k-3k item level and their stat allocations are RADICALLY different. I've also seen people with high item level just die to stuff over and over.
Honestly it seems like people just have no idea how feats/class features/encounters/dailies interact, and so don't take the time to figure out how to deal with them. The problem is even more compounded by the fact that they want the dungeons puggable...
Honestly, the perfect fix would be this:
Get rid of epics from the queue. Put Hard dungeons in the queue. Require that you go to the dungeon entrance OR a portal within the Stronghold for Epic Dungeons.
Boom. No more problems and complaints about how PUGs are locked out of any content.
All of the current Epics stay epic, and you add Hard dungeons that do far less damage and have far less health. Then you lower the rewards substantially.
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clericalistMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 595Arc User
Keep in mind, if you all are talking about 2k item level you should also remember to include whether or not you think Boons should be allowed or not.
Having every single campaign boon unlocked on all of the party members (Sharandar, Dread Ring, Icewind Dale, Well of Dragons) can make a difference. Are you OK with people having boons as well when you say "2k item level exactly"?
Yes all boons, but I think many are missing the point. Should taking on Blackdagger take as much time and effort as Kasparov studies chess ? Some contrived pre-made 2k party that has slotted things that random PUG don't slot and has exactly the right party setup proves what exactly ? A better demonstration is for somebody to provide proof that a PUG party beat Blackdagger and it does not even have to be a 2k party, I would be surprised if a 3k PUG did this.
If the argument is that PUGS should not be able to do ECC and that it requires a very specific party configuration that to me tells me that its too hard. I think a random 2k PUG party should have something like a 25% success rate, 2.5k a 40% success rate and 3k a 60% success rate, numbers around those levels, because currently the success rate is 0% for all of them, I doubt the game designers intended it to be like that.
Good god nobody said anything about pugs. Pugs don't communicate simply because they don't know each other or don't care enough to try. You don't get to cry that you failed a t2 dungeon after you willingly chose to pug it, entering a dungeon with strangers and little hope to win. Chances are obviously slim from the getgo.
I'll narrow down the argument because people seem to be lost here - People are claiming that a party of full 2k's (up to 2.1k, assuming the people know one another and are NOT pugs) cannot complete a T2 legit. What we're here to prove is that it's more than possible and that skill compensates over the lack of gear. No one expects a pug group to win eCC, let's get real. This whole thing scattered all over the place.
"No one expects a PUG to win" that is almost by definition saying its too hard. You prove exactly my point, PUGs not ever being able to do a T2 indicates broken design and shoddy game balance. I suggest you write a Steam review on your opinion of this game, it will go something like this "Neverwinter online is only meant for clever people, the vast majority of players are too stupid and unskilled to play this game and should try something else". I am sure that Cryptic would agree with that viewpoint because its mission is to exclude as many players (and possible paying customers) as possible.
Honestly PUGs could do it, they just have to get out of the selfish attitude. If you have selfish people in the group, who don't want to work as a team, you're going to lose.
How do you think MOBA's work? People who have almost nothing in common come together to try to play the game. If you get in a group of people and no one wants to listen to anyone, then you might as well leave the group. There's no point wasting your time.
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clericalistMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 595Arc User
Honestly PUGs could do it, they just have to get out of the selfish attitude. If you have selfish people in the group, who don't want to work as a team, you're going to lose.
How do you think MOBA's work? People who have almost nothing in common come together to try to play the game. If you get in a group of people and no one wants to listen to anyone, then you might as well leave the group. There's no point wasting your time.
There are good and bad PUGS and obviously they are not going to be as good on average as well geared and tight knit guild parties. Pre mod 6 PUGS however could (and should) do any dungeon if the right people came together, right now PUGS don't do any T2 legit. I have come across a lot of bad PUGS, but there are also good ones, Blackdagger is however a cheap boss battle, if the overwhelming majority of players have to resort to cheesy tricks to beat him (either the spikes or use of dubious items like the Lostmauth set and other such bugged items) what more evidence does one need to show that its too difficult ?
Honestly PUGs could do it, they just have to get out of the selfish attitude. If you have selfish people in the group, who don't want to work as a team, you're going to lose.
How do you think MOBA's work? People who have almost nothing in common come together to try to play the game. If you get in a group of people and no one wants to listen to anyone, then you might as well leave the group. There's no point wasting your time.
There are good and bad PUGS and obviously they are not going to be as good on average as well geared and tight knit guild parties. Pre mod 6 PUGS however could (and should) do any dungeon if the right people came together, right now PUGS don't do any T2 legit. I have come across a lot of bad PUGS, but there are also good ones, Blackdagger is however a cheap boss battle, if the overwhelming majority of players have to resort to cheesy tricks to beat him (either the spikes or use of dubious items like the Lostmauth set and other such bugged items) what more evidence does one need to show that its too difficult ?
Please...If by pre mod 6 pugs you mean mod 3-5, then please bear in mind that only 1 good player in mod 3-5 had to random queue for those dungeons and they could carry the whole party. Look at my signature, I did solo CN and I often random queued for CN. Any party I queued into would automatically have a pass through the entire dungeon. True they would often die along the way, but thats solely because I never told them to just wait at the start and let me finish for them. Only dungeon which wasn't like this was epic dread vault, althouh with good enough gear, even edv was like this as well.
Finally, in mod 0, please give me an example of pugs finishing edv and cn. I doubt you can provide one. Organised groups could do it, just like organised groups can do ecc now, so it is no use complaining that all content should be completable by random pugs when thats never been the way that devs have intended it to be at all.
As for boons, I can name 1 boon that would make a significant difference, burning guidance on a devotion OP. Which is why Imsuggest not taking along a devotion OP.
All of the current Epics stay epic, and you add Hard dungeons that do far less damage and have far less health. Then you lower the rewards substantially.
rewards, what rewards you talk about?
, rewards are joke, so this joke called rewards must be reduced to "what" so random players can have fun dungeon runs?
I like see "Nightmare" level dungeons and "no rewards" because you guys want run them just get title "can run dungeons what others cant and do it naked"... but absolute no rewards but name.
So we got ONE video and requirements 2K is was too high, I expect to see thousands videos when 2K itemlevel party complets,
eCC
eGWD
eTOS
, minority is not equal to majority or was that opposite?
Do you really think everybody records their runs? Or do you think thousands parties will record and upload the 2k videos JUST so you can see and believe? No, its not going to happen. And Im sure these videos wont help - people will pick on things they dont like and request new videos done without this and that until players will be forced to play like in hck'n'slash - run forward and mindlessly mash buttons. Also, these dungeons are supposed to be end game - they are meant to be done successfully by minority and failed by majority - they are test of gear / mechanic / coordination, they were never supposed to be easy and doable by average Joe
So we got ONE video and requirements 2K is was too high, I expect to see thousands videos when 2K itemlevel party complets,
eCC
eGWD
eTOS
, minority is not equal to majority or was that opposite?
Do you really think everybody records their runs? Or do you think thousands parties will record and upload the 2k videos JUST so you can see and believe? No, its not going to happen. And Im sure these videos wont help - people will pick on things they dont like and request new videos done without this and that until players will be forced to play like in hck'n'slash - run forward and mindlessly mash buttons. Also, these dungeons are supposed to be end game - they are meant to be done successfully by minority and failed by majority - they are test of gear / mechanic / coordination, they were never supposed to be easy and doable by average Joe
Your answer proves nothing but that majority of players should look other games and minority should keep this game going. It is also proven by steam statistic shows situation very well and for that I dont need videos.
I miss old dungeons and fun runs with them, doable bosses with proper tactic with random teams when allmost any combination worked if just told players "how to do it"... so 95% of us need look around and I agree with that.
So we got ONE video and requirements 2K is was too high, I expect to see thousands videos when 2K itemlevel party complets,
eCC
eGWD
eTOS
, minority is not equal to majority or was that opposite?
Do you really think everybody records their runs? Or do you think thousands parties will record and upload the 2k videos JUST so you can see and believe? No, its not going to happen. And Im sure these videos wont help - people will pick on things they dont like and request new videos done without this and that until players will be forced to play like in hck'n'slash - run forward and mindlessly mash buttons. Also, these dungeons are supposed to be end game - they are meant to be done successfully by minority and failed by majority - they are test of gear / mechanic / coordination, they were never supposed to be easy and doable by average Joe
Your answer proves nothing but that majority of players should look other games and minority should keep this game going. It is also proven by steam statistic shows situation very well and for that I dont need videos.
I miss old dungeons and fun runs with them, doable bosses with proper tactic with random teams when allmost any combination worked if just told players "how to do it"... so 95% of us need look around and I agree with that.
No, because the majority doesnt even need to complete T2s, especially that rewards are low - you mostly do it just for the sake of doing them - challenge is the only thing left. Also end game is supposed to be goal for majority, not something you achieve automatically shortly after getting lvl 70. So let me rephrase that to be clear - They are meant to be done successfully by minority and a goal for majority - goal they gear, master their class and coordinate their actions for. Note that gear is just 1 of 3 things I mentioned, thats why you have people that claim they can do it with 2k ilvl, do it easily at 2.5k (proven) and you have 4k people that say its impossible.
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thefabricantMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 5,248Arc User
So we got ONE video and requirements 2K is was too high, I expect to see thousands videos when 2K itemlevel party complets,
eCC
eGWD
eTOS
, minority is not equal to majority or was that opposite?
Do you really think everybody records their runs? Or do you think thousands parties will record and upload the 2k videos JUST so you can see and believe? No, its not going to happen. And Im sure these videos wont help - people will pick on things they dont like and request new videos done without this and that until players will be forced to play like in hck'n'slash - run forward and mindlessly mash buttons. Also, these dungeons are supposed to be end game - they are meant to be done successfully by minority and failed by majority - they are test of gear / mechanic / coordination, they were never supposed to be easy and doable by average Joe
Your answer proves nothing but that majority of players should look other games and minority should keep this game going. It is also proven by steam statistic shows situation very well and for that I dont need videos.
I miss old dungeons and fun runs with them, doable bosses with proper tactic with random teams when allmost any combination worked if just told players "how to do it"... so 95% of us need look around and I agree with that.
/rant begins
You know what you need to do:
1) Go play path of exile/ world of warcraft.
2) Realize that the content in those games is much harder then it is here
3) Whine, complain and moan about it on the forums
4) Get laughed at, by a player base that realize that the game should have hard content aimed at intelligent and skilled players that yes, does EXCLUDE players who aren't elite or endgame.
5) Come back to neverwinter and stop complaining, because you realize that most of the content panders for players like you here.
In this game, most of the content is aimed towards casual players, so stop complaining about the 1% of the content that is aimed at 5% of the playerbase that the other 95% of the playerbase can't do, because guess what, 99% of the remaining content is aimed towards people like you.
Not all of the content is aimed at all of the players. I dislike PVP in most games, I will admit I probably suck at it, but I don't complain that PVP players are getting new pvp content that I can't do, because guess what, that content was designed for them. Yes, it excludes me, so what, not everything in the game, or the world for that matter, should cater for my wants. The same is true for you, or anyone else who isn't in a position where they can complete the t2 dungeons. So what if you can't complete them, there are enough people who can, who say that the content is fine, who it was clearly aimed for. The dungeons should not be doable by the average joe and certainly not the pug groups and I personally strongly advocate the fixing of those exploits in eCC so no-one except those skilled enough to complete them can get them completed. You are not entitled to those gear drops in t2 dungeons and heck, they aren't even a major improvement to your gear. Risk vs return, its far more profitable to farm t1's then t2;s, so I don't see why you even complaining.
Completing a t2 should be an achievement, not something, "pug groups can do" or "any random group can do" and atm, they are an achievement. And the first person who claims "you got OP gear yada yada yada" can inspect my characters, my highest geared char has no higher then rank 8's and less then 2.5k ilvl. The majority of my toons have 2000-2.1k ilvl, I am defending the status quo and I meet your under 2.5k requirement, I have never had a toon with over 2.5k ilvl, I am proof that your claims of only overgeared players can do it is a lie.
Now, to anyone else who wants to complain about this, here are some general guidelines, since i haven't actually seen this from anyone who has come forward and complained.
1) Why should a random group be able to do it, when its content aimed at the best players and isn't even really rewarding?
2) Why is it important that you be able to do this dungeon.
3) Definitive proof that it is Not possible to complete these t2 dungeons with 2k ilvl.
4) Reasons why the minimum requirement of 2k ilvl implies that it is also the recommended requirement.
5) Some structured counter arguments to my arguments, as well as mamaluke's, as well as everyone elses, going back to the start of mod 6 when diogene was still arguing this case.
Finally, this is what I have to say:
Until you have completed it, stop complaining about it. If you can't complete it, it says nothing, its aimed at better players then you. If you have completed it legit, then by all means, complain about it constructively, you have earned the right to complain about it.
All i have seen so far is butthurt people whining that they can't do everything and everything in the game, because everything should be about them.
So we got ONE video and requirements 2K is was too high, I expect to see thousands videos when 2K itemlevel party complets,
eCC
eGWD
eTOS
, minority is not equal to majority or was that opposite?
Do you really think everybody records their runs? Or do you think thousands parties will record and upload the 2k videos JUST so you can see and believe? No, its not going to happen. And Im sure these videos wont help - people will pick on things they dont like and request new videos done without this and that until players will be forced to play like in hck'n'slash - run forward and mindlessly mash buttons. Also, these dungeons are supposed to be end game - they are meant to be done successfully by minority and failed by majority - they are test of gear / mechanic / coordination, they were never supposed to be easy and doable by average Joe
Your answer proves nothing but that majority of players should look other games and minority should keep this game going. It is also proven by steam statistic shows situation very well and for that I dont need videos.
I miss old dungeons and fun runs with them, doable bosses with proper tactic with random teams when allmost any combination worked if just told players "how to do it"... so 95% of us need look around and I agree with that.
people that claim they can do it with 2k ilvl,
Yes, it is just "claim" that 2K can do it, you have proven my point, THX.
So we got ONE video and requirements 2K is was too high, I expect to see thousands videos when 2K itemlevel party complets,
eCC
eGWD
eTOS
, minority is not equal to majority or was that opposite?
Do you really think everybody records their runs? Or do you think thousands parties will record and upload the 2k videos JUST so you can see and believe? No, its not going to happen. And Im sure these videos wont help - people will pick on things they dont like and request new videos done without this and that until players will be forced to play like in hck'n'slash - run forward and mindlessly mash buttons. Also, these dungeons are supposed to be end game - they are meant to be done successfully by minority and failed by majority - they are test of gear / mechanic / coordination, they were never supposed to be easy and doable by average Joe
Your answer proves nothing but that majority of players should look other games and minority should keep this game going. It is also proven by steam statistic shows situation very well and for that I dont need videos.
I miss old dungeons and fun runs with them, doable bosses with proper tactic with random teams when allmost any combination worked if just told players "how to do it"... so 95% of us need look around and I agree with that.
people that claim they can do it with 2k ilvl,
Yes, it is just "claim" that 2K can do it, you have proven my point, THX.
Wow, out of everything that was written you picked up on that thing? I guess the constructive argument is over then. I presumed you read the whole thread, or at least a few posts directly above yours, so I didnt feel I had to say:"Claim and are going to prove it soon".
P.S. What was your point then? That they cant do it? What are you going to do when they post a video? Just curious.
0
clericalistMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 595Arc User
So we got ONE video and requirements 2K is was too high, I expect to see thousands videos when 2K itemlevel party complets,
eCC
eGWD
eTOS
, minority is not equal to majority or was that opposite?
Do you really think everybody records their runs? Or do you think thousands parties will record and upload the 2k videos JUST so you can see and believe? No, its not going to happen. And Im sure these videos wont help - people will pick on things they dont like and request new videos done without this and that until players will be forced to play like in hck'n'slash - run forward and mindlessly mash buttons. Also, these dungeons are supposed to be end game - they are meant to be done successfully by minority and failed by majority - they are test of gear / mechanic / coordination, they were never supposed to be easy and doable by average Joe
Your answer proves nothing but that majority of players should look other games and minority should keep this game going. It is also proven by steam statistic shows situation very well and for that I dont need videos.
I miss old dungeons and fun runs with them, doable bosses with proper tactic with random teams when allmost any combination worked if just told players "how to do it"... so 95% of us need look around and I agree with that.
/rant begins
You know what you need to do:
1) Go play path of exile/ world of warcraft.
2) Realize that the content in those games is much harder then it is here
3) Whine, complain and moan about it on the forums
4) Get laughed at, by a player base that realize that the game should have hard content aimed at intelligent and skilled players that yes, does EXCLUDE players who aren't elite or endgame.
5) Come back to neverwinter and stop complaining, because you realize that most of the content panders for players like you here.
In this game, most of the content is aimed towards casual players, so stop complaining about the 1% of the content that is aimed at 5% of the playerbase that the other 95% of the playerbase can't do, because guess what, 99% of the remaining content is aimed towards people like you.
Not all of the content is aimed at all of the players. I dislike PVP in most games, I will admit I probably suck at it, but I don't complain that PVP players are getting new pvp content that I can't do, because guess what, that content was designed for them. Yes, it excludes me, so what, not everything in the game, or the world for that matter, should cater for my wants. The same is true for you, or anyone else who isn't in a position where they can complete the t2 dungeons. So what if you can't complete them, there are enough people who can, who say that the content is fine, who it was clearly aimed for. The dungeons should not be doable by the average joe and certainly not the pug groups and I personally strongly advocate the fixing of those exploits in eCC so no-one except those skilled enough to complete them can get them completed. You are not entitled to those gear drops in t2 dungeons and heck, they aren't even a major improvement to your gear. Risk vs return, its far more profitable to farm t1's then t2;s, so I don't see why you even complaining.
Completing a t2 should be an achievement, not something, "pug groups can do" or "any random group can do" and atm, they are an achievement. And the first person who claims "you got OP gear yada yada yada" can inspect my characters, my highest geared char has no higher then rank 8's and less then 2.5k ilvl. The majority of my toons have 2000-2.1k ilvl, I am defending the status quo and I meet your under 2.5k requirement, I have never had a toon with over 2.5k ilvl, I am proof that your claims of only overgeared players can do it is a lie.
Now, to anyone else who wants to complain about this, here are some general guidelines, since i haven't actually seen this from anyone who has come forward and complained.
1) Why should a random group be able to do it, when its content aimed at the best players and isn't even really rewarding?
2) Why is it important that you be able to do this dungeon.
3) Definitive proof that it is Not possible to complete these t2 dungeons with 2k ilvl.
4) Reasons why the minimum requirement of 2k ilvl implies that it is also the recommended requirement.
5) Some structured counter arguments to my arguments, as well as mamaluke's, as well as everyone elses, going back to the start of mod 6 when diogene was still arguing this case.
Finally, this is what I have to say:
Until you have completed it, stop complaining about it. If you can't complete it, it says nothing, its aimed at better players then you. If you have completed it legit, then by all means, complain about it constructively, you have earned the right to complain about it.
All i have seen so far is butthurt people whining that they can't do everything and everything in the game, because everything should be about them.
/rant ends.
Would you care to show where anyone working for Cryptic stated that T2 was only meant for 5% of the player base ? Its also probably more accurate to say that 0.1% of the player base does T2 "legit", and I say "legit" because permanent Paladin shielding or buggy Lostmauth sets are also taking advantage of bad coding just as much as getting enemies to go through invisible force fields is.
I know what Cryptic has clearly stated however, they have stated that every party combination should be able to succeed, that is currently not the case. Saying one did ECC with a trapper ranger, protection paladin, virtuous cleric, trans vorpals and feats x, y, z blah blah blah - is not evidence of skill its evidence that the game allows one to play in a very narrow range of possibilities. The boss should be beaten by any combination of classes, any combination of feats and any combination items, if that is not the case then the game is breaking its own design principles.
This game is not Starcraft 2 or online chess, if you want to boast about your game play prowess play those games, showing off ones "skill" here is not impressive at all. This game is riddled with bugs, its got things that don't work as stated and has a very big list of imbalance issues. What keeps it going is the D&D title, when the meme starts to build that this game is pay to win and winnable by a very small amount, how can any good come out of that ?
Comments
The Holy Crusaders guild leader ♚ Mod 10 PVE Destroyer GWF guide ♚ Founding member of the Relentless Alliance
Why do people not read? Someone did say exactly that.
there you go
the TR and the one of the HR's are barely over 3k in there, rest are below 2.5k.
The Holy Crusaders guild leader ♚ Mod 10 PVE Destroyer GWF guide ♚ Founding member of the Relentless Alliance
Math isn't exactly your strong side, no?
2.5-parties are mostly capable enough, that's not the matter of the dispute. 2.0, the entry level for T2 dungeons, was what is doubted to be possible. I guess if all are below 2.2 an entry might have some acceptable merit...
Math isn't my strong side? What about your brains? He never said strictly 2,000k toons, he said 2k, which generally is in a range between 2k and 3k. While I did admit two of the party members were a little above 3k, if you fail to understand the point you should think of your choices. The arguement here is a debate about whether this can be DONE, not EASILY done. Hell we did a naked eLOL run, a weapon, artifacts, and one extrenal companions, all party memebers had 800 Item level and above. We won. It takes skill, drop the gear arguments, you'll lose. More over - I'm willing to shoot a video of a naked eTOS run with my guildies, everyone will strip to just under 2k for lolz, and I assure you - it'll be done.
The Holy Crusaders guild leader ♚ Mod 10 PVE Destroyer GWF guide ♚ Founding member of the Relentless Alliance
Fabricant is in this thread saying that it can be easily done. That's what the post you quoted was responding too and yes he did say 2k. Not 3k and 2.5k.
He very clearly said 2k item level, not 2k - 3k range. Post a link showing a party with 2k level (and no, 2999 does not count, the highest level allowed is 2100).
Will do, expect a video either today or tomorrow.
The Holy Crusaders guild leader ♚ Mod 10 PVE Destroyer GWF guide ♚ Founding member of the Relentless Alliance
IDK where your Generals are from, but math apparently isn't their strong side, either...
With the utmost goodwill, 2k might be constructed as a rounded thing - not integer-capped. Then we'd still talk about "below 2.5k". Which however is NOT the topic of this thread. That is - quite clearly - "Can a T2 DD be accomplished with a group where all members just clear the entry level (2.0k)?"
Frankly, whoever doubts that a 2.5k-average, meaningfully composed, competent party can run these dungeons with sufficient skill should really reevealuate their builds or playstyle. OK, probably not 2.5 ILvl HR/SW-only parties, maybe.
Also not sure if not trolling.
Edit:
Looking forward to your vid. BTW: Legit =/= Drag & Drop... ...at least where normally unpassable obstacles like magical barriers are to be transcended. Or put it straighter: Dragging Kallos Tam to the traps is legit, but not ____ - he shouldn't ever get there in the first place.
@rinat114
If you down a CW, send me an invite Sharpedge@thefabricant. I can also come on heal OP, but that class is so buggy that I wouldn't recommend inviting me on it due to maintaining the integrity of the run. Also, my CW is MoF renegade atm, so your party will get the benefit of the smolder debuff as well as the buffs from ren. Since most of the people I play with actively have left, I have been looking for some people to run the high end dungeons with. Whilst I am unwilling to leave my guild (guild loyalty) I am willing to run with people from another guild, if they have a spot for me to run with them.
Having every single campaign boon unlocked on all of the party members (Sharandar, Dread Ring, Icewind Dale, Well of Dragons) can make a difference. Are you OK with people having boons as well when you say "2k item level exactly"?
Most party members won't even have full boons on their toon since they're around 2.5k on average in reality anyways. Plus no boon in either campaigns is going to make a difference between a wipe and a success in a T2, seriously, let's get real.
We're going to drop down to basic blue gear, basic enchantments, no old gear and no 'exploits' of any sort, just a simple eTOS. POV shooter will inspect everyone to show on the vid we're not bluffing.
The Holy Crusaders guild leader ♚ Mod 10 PVE Destroyer GWF guide ♚ Founding member of the Relentless Alliance
Yes all boons, but I think many are missing the point. Should taking on Blackdagger take as much time and effort as Kasparov studies chess ? Some contrived pre-made 2k party that has slotted things that random PUG don't slot and has exactly the right party setup proves what exactly ? A better demonstration is for somebody to provide proof that a PUG party beat Blackdagger and it does not even have to be a 2k party, I would be surprised if a 3k PUG did this.
If the argument is that PUGS should not be able to do ECC and that it requires a very specific party configuration that to me tells me that its too hard. I think a random 2k PUG party should have something like a 25% success rate, 2.5k a 40% success rate and 3k a 60% success rate, numbers around those levels, because currently the success rate is 0% for all of them, I doubt the game designers intended it to be like that.
Good god nobody said anything about pugs. Pugs don't communicate simply because they don't know each other or don't care enough to try. You don't get to cry that you failed a t2 dungeon after you willingly chose to pug it, entering a dungeon with strangers and little hope to win. Chances are obviously slim from the getgo.
I'll narrow down the argument because people seem to be lost here - People are claiming that a party of full 2k's (up to 2.1k, assuming the people know one another and are NOT pugs) cannot complete a T2 legit. What we're here to prove is that it's more than possible and that skill compensates over the lack of gear. No one expects a pug group to win eCC, let's get real. This whole thing scattered all over the place.
The Holy Crusaders guild leader ♚ Mod 10 PVE Destroyer GWF guide ♚ Founding member of the Relentless Alliance
In all honesty, I don't think people actually take the time to look at how much stats people have and only look at item level. I've seen people with 2.5k-3k item level and their stat allocations are RADICALLY different. I've also seen people with high item level just die to stuff over and over.
Honestly it seems like people just have no idea how feats/class features/encounters/dailies interact, and so don't take the time to figure out how to deal with them. The problem is even more compounded by the fact that they want the dungeons puggable...
Honestly, the perfect fix would be this:
Get rid of epics from the queue. Put Hard dungeons in the queue. Require that you go to the dungeon entrance OR a portal within the Stronghold for Epic Dungeons.
Boom. No more problems and complaints about how PUGs are locked out of any content.
All of the current Epics stay epic, and you add Hard dungeons that do far less damage and have far less health. Then you lower the rewards substantially.
"No one expects a PUG to win" that is almost by definition saying its too hard. You prove exactly my point, PUGs not ever being able to do a T2 indicates broken design and shoddy game balance. I suggest you write a Steam review on your opinion of this game, it will go something like this "Neverwinter online is only meant for clever people, the vast majority of players are too stupid and unskilled to play this game and should try something else". I am sure that Cryptic would agree with that viewpoint because its mission is to exclude as many players (and possible paying customers) as possible.
How do you think MOBA's work? People who have almost nothing in common come together to try to play the game. If you get in a group of people and no one wants to listen to anyone, then you might as well leave the group. There's no point wasting your time.
There are good and bad PUGS and obviously they are not going to be as good on average as well geared and tight knit guild parties. Pre mod 6 PUGS however could (and should) do any dungeon if the right people came together, right now PUGS don't do any T2 legit. I have come across a lot of bad PUGS, but there are also good ones, Blackdagger is however a cheap boss battle, if the overwhelming majority of players have to resort to cheesy tricks to beat him (either the spikes or use of dubious items like the Lostmauth set and other such bugged items) what more evidence does one need to show that its too difficult ?
Please...If by pre mod 6 pugs you mean mod 3-5, then please bear in mind that only 1 good player in mod 3-5 had to random queue for those dungeons and they could carry the whole party. Look at my signature, I did solo CN and I often random queued for CN. Any party I queued into would automatically have a pass through the entire dungeon. True they would often die along the way, but thats solely because I never told them to just wait at the start and let me finish for them. Only dungeon which wasn't like this was epic dread vault, althouh with good enough gear, even edv was like this as well.
Finally, in mod 0, please give me an example of pugs finishing edv and cn. I doubt you can provide one. Organised groups could do it, just like organised groups can do ecc now, so it is no use complaining that all content should be completable by random pugs when thats never been the way that devs have intended it to be at all.
As for boons, I can name 1 boon that would make a significant difference, burning guidance on a devotion OP. Which is why Imsuggest not taking along a devotion OP.
eCC
eGWD
eTOS
, minority is not equal to majority or was that opposite?
rewards, what rewards you talk about?
, rewards are joke, so this joke called rewards must be reduced to "what" so random players can have fun dungeon runs?
I like see "Nightmare" level dungeons and "no rewards" because you guys want run them just get title "can run dungeons what others cant and do it naked"... but absolute no rewards but name.
Do you really think everybody records their runs? Or do you think thousands parties will record and upload the 2k videos JUST so you can see and believe? No, its not going to happen. And Im sure these videos wont help - people will pick on things they dont like and request new videos done without this and that until players will be forced to play like in hck'n'slash - run forward and mindlessly mash buttons. Also, these dungeons are supposed to be end game - they are meant to be done successfully by minority and failed by majority - they are test of gear / mechanic / coordination, they were never supposed to be easy and doable by average Joe
Your answer proves nothing but that majority of players should look other games and minority should keep this game going. It is also proven by steam statistic shows situation very well and for that I dont need videos.
I miss old dungeons and fun runs with them, doable bosses with proper tactic with random teams when allmost any combination worked if just told players "how to do it"... so 95% of us need look around and I agree with that.
No, because the majority doesnt even need to complete T2s, especially that rewards are low - you mostly do it just for the sake of doing them - challenge is the only thing left. Also end game is supposed to be goal for majority, not something you achieve automatically shortly after getting lvl 70. So let me rephrase that to be clear - They are meant to be done successfully by minority and a goal for majority - goal they gear, master their class and coordinate their actions for. Note that gear is just 1 of 3 things I mentioned, thats why you have people that claim they can do it with 2k ilvl, do it easily at 2.5k (proven) and you have 4k people that say its impossible.
/rant begins
You know what you need to do:
1) Go play path of exile/ world of warcraft.
2) Realize that the content in those games is much harder then it is here
3) Whine, complain and moan about it on the forums
4) Get laughed at, by a player base that realize that the game should have hard content aimed at intelligent and skilled players that yes, does EXCLUDE players who aren't elite or endgame.
5) Come back to neverwinter and stop complaining, because you realize that most of the content panders for players like you here.
In this game, most of the content is aimed towards casual players, so stop complaining about the 1% of the content that is aimed at 5% of the playerbase that the other 95% of the playerbase can't do, because guess what, 99% of the remaining content is aimed towards people like you.
Not all of the content is aimed at all of the players. I dislike PVP in most games, I will admit I probably suck at it, but I don't complain that PVP players are getting new pvp content that I can't do, because guess what, that content was designed for them. Yes, it excludes me, so what, not everything in the game, or the world for that matter, should cater for my wants. The same is true for you, or anyone else who isn't in a position where they can complete the t2 dungeons. So what if you can't complete them, there are enough people who can, who say that the content is fine, who it was clearly aimed for. The dungeons should not be doable by the average joe and certainly not the pug groups and I personally strongly advocate the fixing of those exploits in eCC so no-one except those skilled enough to complete them can get them completed. You are not entitled to those gear drops in t2 dungeons and heck, they aren't even a major improvement to your gear. Risk vs return, its far more profitable to farm t1's then t2;s, so I don't see why you even complaining.
Completing a t2 should be an achievement, not something, "pug groups can do" or "any random group can do" and atm, they are an achievement. And the first person who claims "you got OP gear yada yada yada" can inspect my characters, my highest geared char has no higher then rank 8's and less then 2.5k ilvl. The majority of my toons have 2000-2.1k ilvl, I am defending the status quo and I meet your under 2.5k requirement, I have never had a toon with over 2.5k ilvl, I am proof that your claims of only overgeared players can do it is a lie.
Now, to anyone else who wants to complain about this, here are some general guidelines, since i haven't actually seen this from anyone who has come forward and complained.
1) Why should a random group be able to do it, when its content aimed at the best players and isn't even really rewarding?
2) Why is it important that you be able to do this dungeon.
3) Definitive proof that it is Not possible to complete these t2 dungeons with 2k ilvl.
4) Reasons why the minimum requirement of 2k ilvl implies that it is also the recommended requirement.
5) Some structured counter arguments to my arguments, as well as mamaluke's, as well as everyone elses, going back to the start of mod 6 when diogene was still arguing this case.
Finally, this is what I have to say:
Until you have completed it, stop complaining about it. If you can't complete it, it says nothing, its aimed at better players then you. If you have completed it legit, then by all means, complain about it constructively, you have earned the right to complain about it.
All i have seen so far is butthurt people whining that they can't do everything and everything in the game, because everything should be about them.
/rant ends.
Wow, out of everything that was written you picked up on that thing? I guess the constructive argument is over then. I presumed you read the whole thread, or at least a few posts directly above yours, so I didnt feel I had to say:"Claim and are going to prove it soon".
P.S. What was your point then? That they cant do it? What are you going to do when they post a video? Just curious.
Would you care to show where anyone working for Cryptic stated that T2 was only meant for 5% of the player base ? Its also probably more accurate to say that 0.1% of the player base does T2 "legit", and I say "legit" because permanent Paladin shielding or buggy Lostmauth sets are also taking advantage of bad coding just as much as getting enemies to go through invisible force fields is.
I know what Cryptic has clearly stated however, they have stated that every party combination should be able to succeed, that is currently not the case. Saying one did ECC with a trapper ranger, protection paladin, virtuous cleric, trans vorpals and feats x, y, z blah blah blah - is not evidence of skill its evidence that the game allows one to play in a very narrow range of possibilities. The boss should be beaten by any combination of classes, any combination of feats and any combination items, if that is not the case then the game is breaking its own design principles.
This game is not Starcraft 2 or online chess, if you want to boast about your game play prowess play those games, showing off ones "skill" here is not impressive at all. This game is riddled with bugs, its got things that don't work as stated and has a very big list of imbalance issues. What keeps it going is the D&D title, when the meme starts to build that this game is pay to win and winnable by a very small amount, how can any good come out of that ?