Doing leadership in game, would take me more than an hour every eight hours, or 3 hrs a day. Where as with Gateway, it only takes me about an hour and a half... so guess what, I stopped playing, I don't see a reason for continuing the game at all, hell if I only have an hour left to play a day, it makes no sense to do so... Some of us have RL jobs, RL monsters (wives and kids, not to mention the mother-in-laws) to hack-n-slay...
Lots of great posts have been already written, explaining what the outcome of this debacle will be.
For me though, enough is enough... I am no longer willing to be a guinea-pig for the ineptitude that has been put to light by who ever has the say in this game...
I was going to wait an see if Strongholds would sway me to stay, but as one put it "the rug has been pulled from under my feet", two weeks earlier... Yeah! Kudos!
btw. botting in-game is worse now then it ever was during mod 4 and 5...
Thank you for a few years of laughs and a few good times, and lots of frustration. I am gonna miss some of the people I've met in-game, but I wont miss the game... There are alternatives...
I feel like I've been conned; so that pisses me off.
If I went into a some restaurant, ordered dish-x, it cost 20 bucks... I eat it, I like it, leave happy. I go in again the next week, order the same dish, and they put like half the amount of food as they had the week before, I'm pissed, leave and I'm not going back.
I see this game, start playing, see that I'm supposed to have multiple toons doing leadership to get enough AD to play, and see that I can make that happen during work hours thru a browser, then I SPEND MONEY to buy character slots, and I'm happy, trucking along, playing mostly on the weekends. Then after the purchase, they turn it off?! I would not have paid for the extra toons if the only option was doing it in game. So I'm pissed. People can quote me the same old "but it's their game, they have the right to do whatever, blah blah". Just like the restaurant conned me; good for them, they doubled their revenue on that one meal. But I'm sure as hell not going back there, and I'm sure as hell not giving these PWE clowns another dime.
@pwe: I suppose if I was somebody with multiple 'free' accounts, (2 characters per), then I would have no right to complain, and I wouldn't be saying anything now. But I'm not, and I don't bot, and I've given you some money after looking at your 'menu'... touche! You tricked me and made a little money... good for you. I hope you choke on it!
[...]
btw. botting in-game is worse now then it ever was during mod 4 and 5...
[...]
...ungh, I guesstimate it's about the same - you just happen upon the bots more often because due to declining player numbers the number of instances is way lower. Same number of bots / lower number of instances = more bots / instance = higher visibility. But that's just my guess.
The word that starts with H and rhymes with Pack is censored? that's funny Anyway, not that it matters but isn't the phrase &ack-n-slash anyway? With the difficultly, I'm not sure how much actual Slaying is going on, unless you're talking about PCs hehe
Since you have disabled Leadership on the Gateway, why not just get rid of the Gateway ALL Together?
0
theycallmetomuMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,861Arc User
Don't say that. I still use the gateway for a number of things.
Mostly selling crafted items on the AH. Or checking my mail, to see when items sold on the AH have been sold. And of course there's managing my alchemy tasks, now that Unified Elements have gone up in price again.
A bunch of people are saying we're punishing players
I certainly feel like I'm being punished. I understand that some people were abusing the gateway but surely they should be punished/banned/penalised rather than punishing everyone. The only upside of this is that I now get more time to eat my lunch!
0
theycallmetomuMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,861Arc User
Hmmmm...
It's not punishment, in the sense that one Anthony Scalia said that torture isn't cruel and unusual punishment, because it's not being done to punish, it's being done to extract information.
IF removing the gateway was intended to provide a disincentive for players to pursue a given action, then removing the gateway is what's known in psychology as negative punishment; that is, removing a positive stimulus. So, the only thing stopping this from being punishing players is motivation which, as far as the player base is concerned, is largely a moot point.
I still fail to see the difference in a gateway bot vs a player with max leadership. If you only have to cycle one time per day and make the same AD as someone botting, where is the difference?
ironzerg79Member, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,942Arc User
So I timed it in game since the change.
To pray, refine and reset Leadership on 24 toons (all at 25, 188 slots total) it to me just under 19 minutes.
I run Leadership once per day, 3 x Fight Elemental Cultists, 3 x Escort a Wizard to Saskatchewan, and 2 x Destroy Enemy Camp. Personally, I found getting the refinement stones from EWS, plus just selling the pieces needed for the rare tasks maximizes my AD gain, particularly for the time invested.
That comes out to a little over 13k AD/min plus whatever I get from selling leadership resources/refining stones on the AH.
... and getting a new character to level 25 leadership with just the assets you get along the way will take you how long now?
I'm trying to find a recent/up to date guide for leadership, but i can't find any... would be nice to have one, to show the Devs how long it takes to level up leadership from scratch.
It just looks like another change, that this will just punish new players a lot more then any vet. player.
Same with the XP grind.
Same with the boons grind.
Same with nearly any change, that has hit the game this far.
There is the statement, that this is only the first step in something bigger, but not a word about that certain bigger picture...
I do believe in killing the messenger...
Want to know why?
Because it sends a message!
0
plasticbatMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 12,404Arc User
... and getting a new character to level 25 leadership with just the assets you get along the way will take you how long now?
Before the patch, about 4.5 months. After the patch, well, I guess over half a year.
I was a new player in mod 3 and swallowed that 3 months to 20 and than 1.5 months to 25 later.
*** The game can read your mind. If you want it, you won't get it. If you don't expect to get it, you will. ***
On the contrary, new players are already benefiting from this change because the backlog on the Zen-AD exchange went from 2.5-3 Million AD (one week ago) to almost nothing today.
How many new players even know about the gateway? Why would a new player even use the gateway for leadership?
To update his measly 1-3 profession slots?
If new player has a job and can only login to gateway at work, then he also has money and need not rely on leadership farming in gateway.
0
plasticbatMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 12,404Arc User
On the contrary, new players are already benefiting from this change because the backlog on the Zen-AD exchange went from 2.5-3 Million AD (one week ago) to almost nothing today.
How many new players even know about the gateway? Why would a new player even use the gateway for leadership?
To update his measly 1-3 profession slots?
If new player has a job and can only login to gateway at work, then he also has money and need not rely on leadership farming in gateway.
New players do not get benefit because 2.5 - 3 million backlog means 2 to 1 week wait only.
If you plan ahead, this is not even an issue. It was over one month when I joined in mod 3. I had no real problem back then neither because I planned ahead. Submit the transaction whenever I have spare AD such as 10 - 100 Zen at a time.
Any new players who have ONE companion should know about gateway because your companion told you to go there.
New players can know about this game too. It took me a week to know how to leadership in gateway and I had more than 3 slots.
Many players come there for free to play. The one who has job knows well how to save money and not to buy something that can be free; especially, when you know whatever you invest now will be more or less useless in next mod (or even next patch).
Are you going to throw away your money that way?
It also sucks as new pay players because the Zax rate drops because of this change. That is your cash worth less for buying AD.
In addition, a new player won't be a new player forever.
*** The game can read your mind. If you want it, you won't get it. If you don't expect to get it, you will. ***
They sold you character slots and you still have them, or did they take you away slots?! No? So why are you complaining?
Read it again. Character slots were purchased with the sole purpose of farming leadership AD using a browser wherever and whenever I wanted to do it. That's what was 'on the shelf', that's what was 'purchased'.
Applying your line of argument to my hypothetical mount example:
me: I paid 25 bucks for that damn mount, now they change it?
xsay: They sold you a mount and you still have it right? Did they take the mount away from you? So why are you complaining?
If i missed the context of your original statements, I'm sorry, my mistake.
Your statement: "Many players come there for free to play. The one who has job knows well how to save money and not to buy something that can be free; especially, when you know whatever you invest now will be more or less useless in next mod (or even next patch). Are you going to throw away your money that way?"
I thought you were talking about purchasing items from PWE with real money (thru zen change first of course)... and your use of the term 'save money' was in the sense of saving 'real' money. Will go back and read it all again, maybe I missed something. No offense intended.
I just read it as saying: "people with real jobs should be smart enough to not spend real money to buy something that can be obtained for free (as in, spend money to buy character-slots when you can get them for free just making a new free account)."....
If i mis-read you, sorry about that. Will strike the sang:blahblah line from post...
Ok. Let me make it clear. My point was about obtaining AD.
You can exchange AD from Zen (which you pay "money" to buy) or getting AD from leadership and other mean ("free").
When I say "whatever you invest now will be more or less useless in next mod (or even next patch).", I means what you can buy in general including both through AD or Zen.
For AD, if you invest million AD to get Dragon Hoard enchantment, it became useless in the "next patch".
If you bought inventory bags (using Zen or AD (before the change)) so that you can transfer that among character, you can't anymore. If you invested million AD to buy RP to upgrade your AE in mod 5, its value is discounted in mod 6.
If invested million AD to get 5 personal rings (or more if you played multiple characters) in mod 5, they are replaced in mod 6 and you can't even salvage them; especially, when you finally accomplished that in the tail end of mod 5.
I am NOT saying losing the "value" is right. I am saying losing the "value" is either out right wrong or part of life in NW. Hence, I am not willing to give cash to do so. In fact, I am not happy to give out game money (AD/Zen) neither.
*** The game can read your mind. If you want it, you won't get it. If you don't expect to get it, you will. ***
0
tripsofthrymrMember, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,624Community Moderator
looks like this change was great ,instead of few millions of backlog on ad exchange we have 17k zen on 500 to buy
Could be because lots of players just gave up altogether. I have (not even logged in to the game once since the change). Only Cryptic has the data to make an educated guess as to whether they have effectively stopped bots or alienated too many players.
I am pretty sure that if toon slots were intended just for AD farming, there would not be a toon linked to them. They are meant for creating characters and Playing in-game content. Leadership farms are why we are in this mess.
I would guestimate that 90% of all toons created in this game are ONLY for farming AD thru leadership, but I don't have data... lol
I have 7 toons. Not one of them was created for Leadership farming.
I am pretty sure that if toon slots were intended just for AD farming, there would not be a toon linked to them. They are meant for creating characters and Playing in-game content. Leadership farms are why we are in this mess.
I would guestimate that 90% of all toons created in this game are ONLY for farming AD thru leadership, but I don't have data... lol
I have 7 toons. Not one of them was created for Leadership farming.
Guess again.
I have one friend who has 52, 51 is for farming ad thru leadership. I have a guildie that has 26, 25 for farming ad. I personally have 13, 12 are for farming ad. (open calculator)...
ad farming: 51+25+12 = 88
total toons: 52+26+13+7 = 98
88/98 = 89.8%
I'm close... and I can give you their names in game if you want...(PM me, not going to put their names here)
I'm so disgusted with the way this game has been run they literally have until the next patch to add a plethora of ways to earn AD, fix and implement the dungeons that were taken out, undo the stupid <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> from mod 6... all im saying is the next patch better <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> wow me or im uninstalling and never looking back or looking at another game from these "people".
Pretty much have it figured that im never logging in again. I shouldn't say that. I'm probably drop everything in the guild bank but that's it. I already started downloading another MMO and looking around at a few others.
I am giving them a chance to make it up in the next patch (a 2 day double AD is not <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> acceptable)... maybe they couldn't patch everything at once, maybe the down time would take to long, maybe they weren't done testing, etc. but that's it.
I like others have spent money to purchase char slots because i was told that a leadership army was the only real way to progress. The only way i can reliably use leadership is thru the gateway.
Basically, I do not trust them anymore to provide a stable gaming environment. i would like to progress but every avenue has be shut down other then the zen market or spending every waking moment in game.
And the fact that they have been working on mod 7 while there is a ton of stuff that they could fix in lieu of spending developing time on another mod that in all likelihood break more stuff is beyond aggravating.
I've actually come to love this change. I wasn't sure I was going to bother playing after Strongbugs rolled out. Now I don't have to wait. I'm actually more excited to check the steam stats periodically just to see how low the population goes after this one than to bother logging in.
Comments
Doing leadership in game, would take me more than an hour every eight hours, or 3 hrs a day. Where as with Gateway, it only takes me about an hour and a half... so guess what, I stopped playing, I don't see a reason for continuing the game at all, hell if I only have an hour left to play a day, it makes no sense to do so... Some of us have RL jobs, RL monsters (wives and kids, not to mention the mother-in-laws) to hack-n-slay...
Lots of great posts have been already written, explaining what the outcome of this debacle will be.
For me though, enough is enough... I am no longer willing to be a guinea-pig for the ineptitude that has been put to light by who ever has the say in this game...
I was going to wait an see if Strongholds would sway me to stay, but as one put it "the rug has been pulled from under my feet", two weeks earlier... Yeah! Kudos!
btw. botting in-game is worse now then it ever was during mod 4 and 5...
Thank you for a few years of laughs and a few good times, and lots of frustration. I am gonna miss some of the people I've met in-game, but I wont miss the game... There are alternatives...
If I went into a some restaurant, ordered dish-x, it cost 20 bucks... I eat it, I like it, leave happy. I go in again the next week, order the same dish, and they put like half the amount of food as they had the week before, I'm pissed, leave and I'm not going back.
I see this game, start playing, see that I'm supposed to have multiple toons doing leadership to get enough AD to play, and see that I can make that happen during work hours thru a browser, then I SPEND MONEY to buy character slots, and I'm happy, trucking along, playing mostly on the weekends. Then after the purchase, they turn it off?! I would not have paid for the extra toons if the only option was doing it in game. So I'm pissed. People can quote me the same old "but it's their game, they have the right to do whatever, blah blah". Just like the restaurant conned me; good for them, they doubled their revenue on that one meal. But I'm sure as hell not going back there, and I'm sure as hell not giving these PWE clowns another dime.
@pwe: I suppose if I was somebody with multiple 'free' accounts, (2 characters per), then I would have no right to complain, and I wouldn't be saying anything now. But I'm not, and I don't bot, and I've given you some money after looking at your 'menu'... touche! You tricked me and made a little money... good for you. I hope you choke on it!
...ungh, I guesstimate it's about the same - you just happen upon the bots more often because due to declining player numbers the number of instances is way lower. Same number of bots / lower number of instances = more bots / instance = higher visibility. But that's just my guess.
The word that starts with H and rhymes with Pack is censored? that's funny
Sekhmet@kvetchus_
Guilds: Greycloaks, Blackcloaks, Whitecloaks, Goldcloaks, Browncloaks, Spiritcloaks, Bluecloaks, Silvercloaks, Black Dawn
Tredecim: The Cloak Alliance
Mostly selling crafted items on the AH. Or checking my mail, to see when items sold on the AH have been sold. And of course there's managing my alchemy tasks, now that Unified Elements have gone up in price again.
I certainly feel like I'm being punished. I understand that some people were abusing the gateway but surely they should be punished/banned/penalised rather than punishing everyone. The only upside of this is that I now get more time to eat my lunch!
It's not punishment, in the sense that one Anthony Scalia said that torture isn't cruel and unusual punishment, because it's not being done to punish, it's being done to extract information.
IF removing the gateway was intended to provide a disincentive for players to pursue a given action, then removing the gateway is what's known in psychology as negative punishment; that is, removing a positive stimulus. So, the only thing stopping this from being punishing players is motivation which, as far as the player base is concerned, is largely a moot point.
To pray, refine and reset Leadership on 24 toons (all at 25, 188 slots total) it to me just under 19 minutes.
I run Leadership once per day, 3 x Fight Elemental Cultists, 3 x Escort a Wizard to Saskatchewan, and 2 x Destroy Enemy Camp. Personally, I found getting the refinement stones from EWS, plus just selling the pieces needed for the rare tasks maximizes my AD gain, particularly for the time invested.
That comes out to a little over 13k AD/min plus whatever I get from selling leadership resources/refining stones on the AH.
I'm trying to find a recent/up to date guide for leadership, but i can't find any... would be nice to have one, to show the Devs how long it takes to level up leadership from scratch.
It just looks like another change, that this will just punish new players a lot more then any vet. player.
Same with the XP grind.
Same with the boons grind.
Same with nearly any change, that has hit the game this far.
There is the statement, that this is only the first step in something bigger, but not a word about that certain bigger picture...
Before the patch, about 4.5 months. After the patch, well, I guess over half a year.
I was a new player in mod 3 and swallowed that 3 months to 20 and than 1.5 months to 25 later.
How many new players even know about the gateway? Why would a new player even use the gateway for leadership?
To update his measly 1-3 profession slots?
If new player has a job and can only login to gateway at work, then he also has money and need not rely on leadership farming in gateway.
New players do not get benefit because 2.5 - 3 million backlog means 2 to 1 week wait only.
If you plan ahead, this is not even an issue. It was over one month when I joined in mod 3. I had no real problem back then neither because I planned ahead. Submit the transaction whenever I have spare AD such as 10 - 100 Zen at a time.
Any new players who have ONE companion should know about gateway because your companion told you to go there.
New players can know about this game too. It took me a week to know how to leadership in gateway and I had more than 3 slots.
Many players come there for free to play. The one who has job knows well how to save money and not to buy something that can be free; especially, when you know whatever you invest now will be more or less useless in next mod (or even next patch).
Are you going to throw away your money that way?
It also sucks as new pay players because the Zax rate drops because of this change. That is your cash worth less for buying AD.
In addition, a new player won't be a new player forever.
Read it again. Character slots were purchased with the sole purpose of farming leadership AD using a browser wherever and whenever I wanted to do it. That's what was 'on the shelf', that's what was 'purchased'.
Applying your line of argument to my hypothetical mount example:
me: I paid 25 bucks for that damn mount, now they change it?
xsay: They sold you a mount and you still have it right? Did they take the mount away from you? So why are you complaining?
Ok. Let me make it clear. My point was about obtaining AD.
You can exchange AD from Zen (which you pay "money" to buy) or getting AD from leadership and other mean ("free").
When I say "whatever you invest now will be more or less useless in next mod (or even next patch).", I means what you can buy in general including both through AD or Zen.
For AD, if you invest million AD to get Dragon Hoard enchantment, it became useless in the "next patch".
If you bought inventory bags (using Zen or AD (before the change)) so that you can transfer that among character, you can't anymore. If you invested million AD to buy RP to upgrade your AE in mod 5, its value is discounted in mod 6.
If invested million AD to get 5 personal rings (or more if you played multiple characters) in mod 5, they are replaced in mod 6 and you can't even salvage them; especially, when you finally accomplished that in the tail end of mod 5.
I am NOT saying losing the "value" is right. I am saying losing the "value" is either out right wrong or part of life in NW. Hence, I am not willing to give cash to do so. In fact, I am not happy to give out game money (AD/Zen) neither.
Could be because lots of players just gave up altogether. I have (not even logged in to the game once since the change). Only Cryptic has the data to make an educated guess as to whether they have effectively stopped bots or alienated too many players.
Sci-fi author: The Gods We Make, The Gods We Seek, and Ji-min
Guess again.
Aelar Hawkwind - Archer
Karrin Feywinter - Mistress of Flame
Errin Duskwalker - Executioner
Darquess - Soulbinder
I have one friend who has 52, 51 is for farming ad thru leadership. I have a guildie that has 26, 25 for farming ad. I personally have 13, 12 are for farming ad. (open calculator)...
ad farming: 51+25+12 = 88
total toons: 52+26+13+7 = 98
88/98 = 89.8%
I'm close... and I can give you their names in game if you want...(PM me, not going to put their names here)
Pretty much have it figured that im never logging in again. I shouldn't say that. I'm probably drop everything in the guild bank but that's it. I already started downloading another MMO and looking around at a few others.
I am giving them a chance to make it up in the next patch (a 2 day double AD is not <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> acceptable)... maybe they couldn't patch everything at once, maybe the down time would take to long, maybe they weren't done testing, etc. but that's it.
I like others have spent money to purchase char slots because i was told that a leadership army was the only real way to progress. The only way i can reliably use leadership is thru the gateway.
Basically, I do not trust them anymore to provide a stable gaming environment. i would like to progress but every avenue has be shut down other then the zen market or spending every waking moment in game.
And the fact that they have been working on mod 7 while there is a ton of stuff that they could fix in lieu of spending developing time on another mod that in all likelihood break more stuff is beyond aggravating.