Put into perspective the changes to Leadership on Gateway

strumslinger

A bunch of people are saying we're punishing players, but let's put things into perspective about the game as a whole instead of what each individual player sees. We have information you guys may not be aware of in that the amount of people botting in Leadership on Gateway is astounding! They're actually ruining the economy by having so much AD that it hikes everything up, but many aren't aware of this. By removing it, the economy will be more balanced as "illegal" currency would take a hit - yes, we know there are other ways, but one step at a time.
Let's not think about this in terms of individual and immediate problems. Just because it doesn't affect you directly, doesn't mean it's a bad thing. Manyyyyy people have asked us to take care of all the botters and their monopoly of AD, but when we do something to stop some of it, the same people berate us. I'm not sure about you, but this just doesn't sound right. So I'm asking you guys to look at the bigger picture instead of what's directly in front of you and ask yourself the same questions you're asking us.
I understand your frustrations, but again, look at the bigger picture. I'll be the first to acknowledge when a decision is questionable like the XP changes and whatnot, but this one is not questionable; it's just not obvious at first.
Many people say we never act on anything the community wants. Here we are acting on it - getting rid of a major source for botting, which will result in a more balanced economy.
This is my honest opinion and I am speaking for myself, not anyone else.

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beckylunatic

That's all well and good, but the prices of the most AD-needy items are set by Cryptic, not an inflated market.

If I can't afford a lockbox mount from the auction, I don't get to have a fancy horsie.

If I can't afford enough GMoPs to upgrade my enchants and artifacts when they're ready, I'm stuck.

Please keep that in mind as you make your adjustments.

gankdalf

The big picture is that the prices on everything is so out of proportion (not only AH but ZEN store too) so you are forcing players that love the game to find ways to get that AD and at the same time you guys are removing all the legit ways to farm AD.

Tell me, how does a normal player afford enchants and mounts that cost millions of AD? P2W. There is no other legit way to play all of the content this game offers. Miss the old days where you could actually play the game and gain enough AD to buy stuff. Now you have to farm dungeons etc for hours to even buy a dye pack.

You will lose a large portion of the playerbase by cutting them off without adding legit ways to gain AD. How long will it take for you to come up with new ways to earn AD? The players will be long gone by then. I don't know a single player that would stick around playing a game where they cant afford to buy anything and progress.

cjh1983

But are you really removing the source of the problem? The dedicated botters will just do it in-game - this does absolutely nothing to stop them.

I feel like development studios have learned absolutely nothing in the 20 years or so since MMO's became a thing. This strategy has never worked and it will never work.

cloudius1978

beckylunatic wrote: »

That's all well and good, but the prices of the most AD-needy items are set by Cryptic, not an inflated market.

If I can't afford a lockbox mount from the auction, I don't get to have a fancy horsie.

If I can't afford enough GMoPs to upgrade my enchants and artifacts when they're ready, I'm stuck.

Please keep that in mind as you make your adjustments.

+1 on this.

I've mentioned this in several threads too, that if ways to generate ADs are hit as we strive to bring about a "balanced economy", then by means of "balance", the level of AD sinks should be reviewed and adjusted accordingly as well.

reds351

You say one step at a time but every problem the dev's try deal they go nuclear to try solve a small problem.
* Foundry XP was nerfed because people could fast level in it - Overkill and now not a single person i know in game has run one for over a year. also rewards suck
* Dragon hoards - cheep RP was the only way to level up our gear that gets replaced every mod they first got made BTA then they got a 20s CD put on them THEN they got a daily drop limit or time limit where they get a <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> drop rate.

Every time we get something that could make the game less of a grind the Devs hit it with a nuke and tell us "oh this is temporary fix we will work on a better solution later" then they brush it under the rug and hope no one asks when that solution is coming.

Just saying with the recent events with companions and everything players trust is at an all time low.

putzboy78

Since the Leadership bots have been in place since the beginning. It's hard to say that its "ruining" the economy. More appropriately would be to say it "ruined" the economy. However in two years many changes have been implemented to reduce the amount of AD is in circulation of the game. Unless you reverse those changes this change will have a counter effect of crippling the economy; however, I assume you employ a CBAP or CBE that analized the impact of this change and are adjusting the game accordingly and not just reacting and implementing a change based on a white board session by developers. Just look at the backlog of ZEN at the 500AD price point. It has already halved since the announcement because the people who "have" wealth from exploiting no that AD is going to gain value to the ZEN. We also know that RP cost will go up on AH as enchantment rewards from leadership go down. AD will gain value yet the GMOP will still cost 100k (unless modified) and is only available from one source and wards.

<Please refrain from "pay to win" allusions or discussions.>

And that circulates back to my earlier post in another closed thread that assumed that cryptic really is dis-investing in this game.

romotheone

Bots are selling hundreds of thounsands of rank 4's every months, how about cutting their profits by limiting the number of items posted within a month? Make the limit so high that a normal player will barely be affected by it (even for players who use the AH to accumulate wealth), but low enough to make those bots suffer.
One may argue that this will only make botters create more accounts, making their forces scatter and thus making them harder to find, but requires botters to adapt and to invest more time, it will become more tedious for them, just as it becomes more tedious for players with each and every counter-bot step Cryptic seems to take.
If the developers don't know how to eradicate bots completely, start making it harder for them through effective measures.

ayroux

ihaveahies wrote: »

Did you also have information we weren't aware of when you added in game delays before reversing the decision 1 module later because it obviously wasn't effective?

Two other questions. If you're so aware:
1) Why now? Gateway allowed leadership for years.
2) Why was a certain method of creating AD out of nowhere not fixed until months later? The real cause for the economy being in this state seems to be neglect from my POV.

You guys also seemed happy to wreck dragon hoard enchantments. That wasn't used via gateway, why would a convenience item prevent botting? Something you previously tried to attempt to combat with an annoying delay that also annoyed real players more than bots.

Anyway the real issues is that rewards have been wrecked since module 1 started. Stuff became rarer in new dungeons, other stuff bop so we couldn't sell and you even removed lord protector dailies and some rhix dailies not to mention other changes like binding coal wards, reducing the drop rates and more a long time ago.

Edit: While you may have good intentions, the company as a whole seems not to. I've been here for a long time to see more restrictions than stuff that actually helps us. I do not however envy your position. Things have been neglected so much that it's a big mess and that makes any decision controversial even if things were actually done for the best. Most of these changes aren't though.

I echo this...

In an IDEAL world, yes this makes 100% sense but the problem is where the game is at today.

PVE loot is all bound.
TONS of prices (GMOPS/Wards) are FIXED by Cryptic.

I AGREE the profession issue needed to be addressed. However I firmly believe this is REALLY the wrong way to do this. There are TONS of other ways to adjust this. This change REQUIRES a large overhaul of the current game which will not happen and even if it WILL it will happen over a LONG PAINFUL period of time.

There are players with hundreds of millions of AD still. They will stay super duper rich. Their AD will actually become more valuable as they will still be able to afford things.

The present game has been built up over time and re-built on its current "framework". You are removing one of those framework pieces that will cause massive issues moving forward if things are not adjusted.

I know you are not in a position to make these calls yourself. I agree its been an issue and needs a fix, but removing this from the game (leadership via gateway) is something the game was BUILT UPON!

If this is the case, we need to revert things back to module ZERO status:

1) FARMABLE PVE DUNGEONS WITH GEAR ABLE TO BE SOLD!!!!!!!!!!
2) REASONABLE COST for items! (artifacts, artifact gear, rank 12s)
3) Change leadership so all the tasks are 12 hours or 24 hours. Put an ACCOUNT limit on the AD you can refine. Even at 200k per account this would be a HUGE cut in bots effectiveness. (from 1.2M/day).

4) Cryptic needs to adjust prices! The fact a coal ward or GMOP is so expensive and you require so many of them. its laughable.....

The ability to do professions while not in the game was a great way for some of us to make some passive AD to afford these things. It made up for all these other issues (no real way to FARM AD in game) and you guys pull this rug out from under the game.

There is a better way, a middle ground. Bots will still be able to Bot leadership... mark my works Andy, the bots will create an in game version and just keep it running.....

ayroux

I guess here is a simple way to see this from a guy who has been here since BETA.

Over the months/years Cryptic has added TONS of AD sinks already that were not here from when the game started...

Now that you guys have "cut off" one of the biggest issues with AD making in the game (that youll still need to start bringing out the axe for players that just end up doing this IN game rather than on the gateway)

You will need to also REMOVE those AD sinks.

Without doing things like that, this will actually have the opposite effect on the economy...

reiwulf

I'm glad you're adressing the community with the reasons on what cryptic did it, at least it shows you want us to understand why you're doing it.
It doesn't affect me directly anyway, I've never used the gateway.
I just hope this decision helps against botters.

cambo1682

Not your fault Andy, I know you're the messenger, so no point shooting you for these types of decisions. The big picture speech probably needs to be taken to this lead dev though, They are proving to be a total nightmare compared to whomever concocted Elemental Evil. This is one more example of throwing the baby out with the water. If it kills the botters then terrific. We've all heard that before though with dragon hoards, hard earned AD and resources poured into items that have been devalued in the blink of an eye, not only through proc rates but also the amount of time it takes to kill creatures. I can only conclude that the big picture goal at Cryptic is to make the game so bad compared to what it was that noone would play past level 60 and those that have been around and established will leave...why? So PWE will sell Cryptic? You folks don't have to listen to your customers, but I can tell you if Walmart or Starbucks told me to look at the big picture "We are going to subject you to a pat search before you exit the store to combat shoplifters" I would steer clear of those businesses after I'd stopped laughing.

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beckylunatic

I would suggest adding a nominal AD reward to campaign and vigilance quests. By nominal, I mean something like 5-10% of the XP they grant, which should theoretically already be in line with the length of time each is expected to take. That would soften the blow a great deal, imo.

Alternatively, more refinement items would be welcome. Cryptic made a start on this, except they primarily opted to add the types of refinement items that players needed least.

lwedar

yeah strum, we all like you alot and the fact that you are increasing communication. That said, everyone who has played this game for a long time understands the perspective and the flaws in it. We are just trying to explain how making this change doesn't help overall because the "exploiters" will use other methods and legit players have less tools available

reiwulf

I 100% agree with magenubbie, and I don't hate him at all for his more drastic points XD

ayroux

magenubbie wrote: »

strumslinger wrote: »

This is my honest opinion and I am speaking for myself, not anyone else.

First of all, I value the fact you come here of your own accord and try to put things in perspective. Kudoos. It takes some guts to move away from the flame shield that you cannót help but need. You're only the messenger after all.

If I may, I'd like to put things in a much wider perspective. You're relatively new to the game and while that's nothing to be ashamed of, you may have missed certain key events in the history of the game;
Yes it gets abused. No offense to you personally, but the players already knew that 2 years ago, said so and were ignored. It's not the gateway, it's the entire leadership thing that gets abused. Let's follow the line of events and see where it leads up to:
1. characters have a 24k AD refining limit.
2. to make things easier for people you created the gateway
3. people don't accept the 24k refining limit and start creating leadership armies
4. Bots also see the potential of leadership armies and follow suit.
5. 90% of the farmable content from the game gets removed. It really doesn't matter what reason there was for it. Let's just accept it as a fact.
6. As a result of 5. more people create leadership armies. They have no alternative. Or so they believe. Let's not get into a discussion on the validty of that view. It's a fact that people feel this way.
7. The current patch notes tells people to get in-game to do leadership, effectively taking away their only convenience for doing these leadership tasks.
That is basically what's going on from a player's PoV. You cannot blame them for not being too happy about it. There's already little to nothing to do but refing till they die and this on top of everything isn't helpful. Trust is low and pushing through large changes like this can only make things worse.

Now let me try to do the same from a company's PoV and try to show you what should have been done instead in my opinion:

1. statistics show that the 24k refining limit gets abused by creating leadership armies. No action was taken on this. Panderus himself stated that there's nothing wrong with having a leadership army. But actions should have been taken. What? Anything really. We're still just out of open beta in this stage so we're free to make adjustments. Perhaps restrict leadership to x characters per account, perhaps create an account-wide limit instead of a character based one. I'm sure your devs can figure it out. Point is, it was ignored and allowed to continue for over 2 years.
2. Bots are taking over both the RP market as well as the ZAx market by selling for 60% of the value Cryptic put on it. What was done to fight the bots? Nothing. Nothing at all. Cryptic tried to fight a symptom, namely the large amount of RP going on the AH. I'm no rocket scientist, but it should be clear that fighting a symptom has no value if you don't fight the source of the symptom: The bots themselves. Again, this was stated more than once along with several alternatives that, while perhaps more expensive, would yield endlessly better results than what Cryptic did. But Cryptic insisted on re-inventing the wheel and stubbornly reduced drop rates instead of fighting the bots directly. Players howled so hard that you could hear them in the Wolf Den. but that too was ignored and done away with 'we'll re-look into it". That was about 5 months ago.
3. Let's skip several exploits and bug abuses that were very poorly dealt with and continue to today:
4. Removing of the leadership profession from the gateway. What does this objectively achieve:
No more 3rd party scripting to operate the website. Alright, how does that affect bots? Not at all. Since there's nothing preventing them from repeating the same script in game all this does is cost them 10 min per account of 50 characters extra with no AD loss to them. How does this affect players? In all honesty, not significantly. Tasks run long enough to plan them around your daily life. But you do take away a great convenience from the players. And what for? to fight yet another symptom of a much larger problem.

So, what should have been done then?
First of all, the game needs an anti-cheat engine. It can't be too hard to build or buy a program that detects the same characters going in and out the same instance every 2-3 minutes. It's a matter of reading the log files and knowing what to look for. I'm sure some of your devs have their own connections in the business that can provide you with something.

Second, you need to take away as much of their wares as possible. You started off well with the keys, but there's too much other stuff still for sale. Zen items should be BtA upon purchase. This ensures that people who want AD will actually use the ZAx and you deny 3rd party sellers from selling items through the ZAx. Both will greatly benefit the economy.

Third, and this will not be very popular perhaps, but it should be done: Remove RP from the market entirely. Instead, give people the chance to drop sufficient BtA RP to refine their gear. No more blarney with 376 types of RP, just 1: refining points. Remove all enchantment drops from the game and sell basic enchantments of the rank you think is fitting (perhaps with a level restriction for certain ranks) in the WB for AD. BtA of course, even after upgrading. That way people can make and refine their own stuff, while at the same time remove 90% of the bot's income. It's secure and as an added bonus you have an AD sink that everybody will and must use. This gives you room to play with the GMOP and CWard drop rates (also BtA by default) to ensure that everyone has a reasonable chance of upgrading their enchantments and artifact gear.

Lastly, and I know people will hate me for saying it, remove all AD gain from leadership and replace it with RP. AD should be made from playing the game and nothing else. There's a reason every other MMO works like this. And Cryptic is finally realizing that too, otherwise they wouldn't make this change. Ensure that both PvP and PvE people can max out their refining limits in their respective areas. I may require work of course, but keep it possible. Someone who's played an entire evening on his dailies should be able to reach the refining cap.

That's my 2 cents on the matter.

Very well written and Id agree with it all. I may take a different spin but it would require more overhaul. I would add that GEAR that drops from PVE needs to be BoE. This is where players were able to make money and is how it always should be. Run a dungeon, get gear, sell it, repeat.

Other forms of professions need to create SELLABLE goods.

If I level up weapon smithing, I should be able to SELL a weapon for profit... If I level jewelcrafting, I should be able to SELL the double enchant slot rings...

Diablo had a pretty decent economy system in place (not gonna argue about bots) but EVERYTHING was not bound. In Neverwinter EVERYTHING is bound its ridiculous! I had a Xvim necklace I used for leveling alts (for leadership) and I thought it would be cool to transmute it, so I did, and it became bound to character (wtf?) submitted a ticket TWICE and told the same thing "sorry cant help".

If I level an artifact up, I should be able to transfer that to an alt! If I have artifact equipment, I should be able to transfer it to an ALT!

Bound items need to = Bound on Account.
PVE and professions need to produce SELLABLE goods.

I also agree. REMOVE all these janky "RP" types. Just make it ONE type. ONE! Just cut it off and say from now on, it drops back to things like "peridots" which are just pure RP. Aquamarines = PURE RP. Drop the other <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>. Rank 5s cant be used for RP. Only REAL RP.

Then make REAL RP farmable via quests/dailies or even professions!

dersidius

Strum, I believe many of us
are worried about this issue, leadership is literally the games only way of producing ad out of thin air in mass amounts.

So here's the issues with the suggested changes

Yes the ad pool in game atm will sink titanically, and yes prices will go down as well, but the issue is unless another means of AD generation is implemented into the game , AD pool will sink so far down and prices will get to a point where they can't follow


It could be a doomsday philosophy, but this sounds like the workings for a depression.

In addition to this, even though no game company openly admits it, it's a fact that bots are in some way, healthy for a games economy, so why are we removing ours ?

gom8

ihaveahies wrote: »

Two other questions. If you're so aware:
1) Why now? Gateway allowed leadership for years.
2) Why was a certain method of creating AD out of nowhere not fixed until months later? The real cause for the economy being in this state seems to be neglect from my POV.

Quoted for truth.. reason i quit this game the first time barely a month into it, was the auction house AD bug... i saw how it was "handled" and knew if that was the future method for all things, the economy was going to explode in AD.. and well.. it has.. you NEVER sell zen for less than 500 AD each and that is ONLY because they cap it at that.. otherwise i suspect it would be around 1500-2000 AD per zen...

This is only going to hurt casuals the MOST(i am sure it will hurt some sellers), i guarantee it, and for the professional botters, they will simply keep doing what they already do, and/or if they DID use the gateway at all design a new bot to do that in game instead of on gateway..

j0shi82

strumslinger wrote: »

A bunch of people are saying we're punishing players, but let's put things into perspective about the game as a whole instead of what each individual player sees. We have information you guys may not be aware of in that the amount of people botting in Leadership on Gateway is astounding! They're actually ruining the economy by having so much AD that it hikes everything up, but many aren't aware of this. By removing it, the economy will be more balanced as "illegal" currency would take a hit - yes, we know there are other ways, but one step at a time.
Let's not think about this in terms of individual and immediate problems. Just because it doesn't affect you directly, doesn't mean it's a bad thing. Manyyyyy people have asked us to take care of all the botters and their monopoly of AD, but when we do something to stop some of it, the same people berate us. I'm not sure about you, but this just doesn't sound right. So I'm asking you guys to look at the bigger picture instead of what's directly in front of you and ask yourself the same questions you're asking us.
I understand your frustrations, but again, look at the bigger picture. I'll be the first to acknowledge when a decision is questionable like the XP changes and whatnot, but this one is not questionable; it's just not obvious at first.
Many people say we never act on anything the community wants. Here we are acting on it - getting rid of a major source for botting, which will result in a more balanced economy.
This is my honest opinion and I am speaking for myself, not anyone else.

The main issue for players is not that you don't take action, but taking action the wrong way. I have no doubts the amount of AD generated by profession bots is insane, however dealing with exploits and botting the Cryptic/PWE way always results in a nerf of some shape or form.

Assuming that bots adjust sooner or later (they will just run other professions and sell stuff - wanna scratch more in the future? - or bot ingame), all that's left from the "bigger picture" is a nerf hitting the legit player. And it's not the first one, it's one in a series of nerfs in your anti-botting measures that seemingly have done little to nothing to actually improve the situation.

I believe you when saying that this should enhance the economy, but people already had the feeling that the game offers too little opportunities to convert time into AD and every new nerf adds fuel to the fire. If at the same time people feel you do little to nothing to actually ban offenders, no wonder the reactions are like we're seeing now.

gom8

magenubbie wrote: »

First of all, I value the fact you come here of your own accord and try to put things in perspective. Kudoos. It takes some guts to move away from the flame shield that you cannót help but need. You're only the messenger after all.
... (TONS OF GREAT KNOWLEDGE AND LOGIC AND INSITE!!!!!!!)

i feel bad having to clip his post PLEASE if you have not yet READ IT!!
The most important thing he says, and that strum misses (not sure if he misses it so much as this has BEEN the standard dev action on these issuses) is, well put in simple terms it would be "omg i just got a splinter in my finger!" "REMOVE THE FINGER!!! and the problem is solved!!"

you can keep removing things till the end of days, to try and prevent "bots" however as long as there is money to be made (from the pros perspective) or an advantage to be gained (from the gamers/players perspective) they will just move onto the next exploitable thing, and what happens when the "fix" is to cut the finger off to get rid of the splinter.. you eventually cut all the fingers off.. the hand.. the forearm, the shoulder.. body.. head.. poof no more content..

Strum you yourself say "We have information you guys may not be aware of in that the amount of people botting in Leadership on Gateway is astounding! They're actually ruining the economy by having so much AD that it hikes everything up, but many aren't aware of this. " so.... call me crazy, but if you have such detailed info........ why not FIX the way they are doing it instead of just "cutting the arm off" to stop the bleeding on that one finger...

and looking over what i have missed for well almost 2 years of the game, this is common that to "fix" something being exploited it is just chopped off.. or nerfed so no one even bothers anymore, and everyone moves onto the new target..

*shrug* just my few cents.. i liked playing the gateway, i could do it at work.. watching tv... while playing neverwinter OR playing another game even (via tablet or portable OR simply alt-tabing out )... the only one worthwhile to do "long term" is leadership, the rest are worth getting to 25.. then use the once in a blue moon (if ever)..

PS.....

I am surprised no one has pointed at the irony of the "leadership armys" and "gateway" and the fact.. they LET US have 50 characters per account... seems like.. if you only let us have like.. 10.. or 15... you wouldn't be in this pickle or at least not as bad as you made it sound..

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skitzopyro

This does nothing to the real botters only the players trying to keep up with an economy that is off the rails. Real botters don't play the game. Let me point that out; they are not running dungeons or pvping.
You are attacking the players who are trying to stay afloat with their downtime. You just punctured the life raft holding the game afloat.
Real bots will just log in and do leadership because they aren't player controlled.
Gateway users are going to suffer harder as this now gives them no way of generating currency while away from the game or while waiting in queue's.
As a new player I was happy when I started making my leadership army because it meant all my hard work would soon pay off and I would be able to play the game and end game but now the rug just gets pulled out from under me.

j0shi82

dersidius wrote: »

Strum, I believe many of us
are worried about this issue, leadership is literally the games only way of producing ad out of thin air in mass amounts.

So here's the issues with the suggested changes

Yes the ad pool in game atm will sink titanically, and yes prices will go down as well, but the issue is unless another means of AD generation is implemented into the game , AD pool will sink so far down and prices will get to a point where they can't follow


It could be a doomsday philosophy, but this sounds like the workings for a depression.

In addition to this, even though no game company openly admits it, it's a fact that bots are in some way, healthy for a games economy, so why are we removing ours ?

People always say they want to be compensated for nerfs and I feel the same way, but in the end we don't know what the devs envision an adequate daily income to be.

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beckylunatic

locksanpockets wrote: »

Will all of the above posters kindly state how many character slots they have?

18 of 21 slots used.

4 of those are low-level, not able to do professions or invoke, and mostly exist because character slots are cheaper than bank slots and hoarding refinement items against 2xRP is a thing (symptoms of other problems). I've done a little Blacklake skirmish on some of them when I feel like it. I might even feel saucy and level them someday.

I have a level 70 GWF I started to test some low-level stuff and ended up using for more storage, inadvertently invoked to max level. I could have deleted him but I was already using his bag space.

Of the 13 characters left, that's one of every class, two GWFs ("tank" and DPS) and five TRs (various builds because fave class). Every one of them but the paladin has all their boons in all campaigns except for the ridiculously grindy ToD/Tiamat ones. The paladin is done DR, acquiring sparks for the 5th Sharandar boon, and not started IWD. Unlocked all the class artifacts. I have played the everloving snot out of this stable of characters, until such a time as the game's own demands for progression made it unfeasible to continue to keep them all going strong. Even so, I've obtained an Elemental Fire weapon on 12 of those from doing the requisite EE quests. They've all got 2.somethingk iLvl. Yeah, they do Leadership. I've done a lot more with them than that though.

denvald

I understand where you're coming from Strum. The real problem is the bots aren't going to stop there. They will bot in game now, and well we all know that the long term veterans have had access to bugs and exploits the new players have not simply because we weren't when it happened.

Leadership gateway bots and astral resonator exploits included, the people who did this long before now are set, they dont need any more AD.

The same way my old character warlock has 19 power points more than newer characters made after m6. And it's just about impossible to catch up to this anymore with the current EXP changes, it just feels like leadership is going down the same drain. Sure it'll be hard for everyone from now on so it's all fair and equal from now on... But alot of players started the race long before we did, and things were alot easier when they were racing.. so catching up to them at this point is close to impossible

jaotut

By saying ruining the economy, we all know you're actually thinking ruining players buy zen with real money. As more and more players generate AD from leadership, the company probably feels people are spending less money on the game because of it. Well, doing something that is going to <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> the community off, and make people angry is going to make people less incline to spend real money.

You guys should target the REAL botters that is hurting the economy, not the players that are giving you guys an income.

It is because of botters that people can afford to become best in slot in this game, whether they were botting, or buying stuff off botters.

Bring back BoE pieces from PvE like others have said, so people can be award for playing the game, and not a 1% chance drop for a 1mil item. Get rid of artifact equipments that no real legit player can afford. Then you might start to see people liking the game more and willing to spend some more money into it.

denvald

And when I look at the price of rank 4 enchants which are big demand at the astonishing price of 2k per stack something tells me the problem doesnt end there

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