dheffernanMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 216Arc User
Back in EverQuest, I was a member of a guild called Arbiters on E'ci (RIP). We were a social guild formed of people who knew each other in-game and/or offline. A number of us had connected originally on the Usenet group for Ultima Online. We didn't invite just anyone but it wasn't hard to get in. People we grouped with who weren't jerks and expressed an interest in joining were usually invited. It was a great bunch of people. When we found a substantial number of us all lived in the same part of NJ we started having get-togethers. There was even a nationwide meeting in Nevada that I couldn't get to.
Then the Planes of Power expansion created a "funnel effect" that destroyed the Arbiters and every other guild that wasn't oriented around performance gaming. And it's seemed to me ever since, in every MMO I've seen, the idea of social guilds that serve as online communities is DOA. Guilds recruit willy-nilly to increase headcount and just toss out people who aren't meeting their standards for item level or whatever. Guild members aren't online friends any more; they're components.
I don't expect Strongholds to do anything to improve the situation. If anything it will make it worse. I'm in a single-player guild now (called Arbiters, of course) made so I could take part in GG. I'm not really interested in disbanding it, even if only because I'd have to find space for all the junk in my one guild bank tab. I was thinking of buying another when the Strongholds announcement was made, actually, but that seems like a dumb idea now. I expect to get precisely nothing out of Strongholds and it wouldn't surprise me if I lost what little I already have somehow.
In any case I'm just not excited about the next expansion.
@Venture-1@Venture from City of Heroes if you remember that far back. Yes, *that* Venture. Yes, I probably trashed your MA arc. For me it was Tuesday.
I have no issue with the social side of Guilds. I'm a solo player because:
1. I'm a casual due to RL commitments
2. I'm an Altoholic
The combination of the above mean I'm a bad fit for guild membership as not only do I have limited play time but I might often be in game on multiple toons during that time. I don't want to be 'that guy' who joins a guild but is hardly ever around or participating in guild runs due to lack of time etc.
So for people like me, solo play is pretty much the only option rather than just a preference.
Guilds recruit willy-nilly to increase headcount and just toss out people who aren't meeting their standards for item level or whatever. Guild members aren't online friends any more; they're components.
That's simply not true. Yes, there are guilds like that, but they tend to burn bright for as long as they can feed the beast and hide all it's <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>. But once people pull back the rug, they see there's nothing there but a big pile of...
But there's at least a dozen great guilds that I know of that focus on the people, not just the toon and they're very easy to find...
And let's also be realistic here...you're talking about UO and EQ...that's almost 20 years ago. Don't let the rose-colored glasses of the past ruin your chance at having fun in the present.
"Meanwhile in the moderator's lounge..."
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drkbodhiMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 2,378Arc User
I would say that there are more than a dozen Guilds.
CA doesn't openly recruit in the forums... and the guild has been around.
Atwil "At" - Tiefling TR / Saardush - Black Dragonborn GWF / White - Tiefling OP
As I see it, the problem isn't Module 7's guild-focus. The problem is that the solo end-game currently feels like nails on a chalkboard.
I'm unguilded and primarily a PvE soloer. I wasn't bothered by Gauntlgrym's guild zones, Icewind Dale's PvP, Tiamat's raid, or other content updates that didn't match my playstyle because I had so many other things to do that did match my playstyle.
Maybe they should sell solo-guild charters for 1000 zen. I would buy one and poke around in Strongholds. Otherwise, I'm mostly waiting for Module 8's Underdark, while playing other games.
The bad news in Mod 7 that is not in any of guild related activities in any of the PWE or Cryptic games is the guild zones are PVPVE, and, if you have read the developer blogs, you should know that before you even get to the place that's going to be your guild base, you have to fight through HEs.
It is quite obvious, don't expect to survive solo unless you can solo HEs and fight off biggie guilds alone, or your name is Chuck Norris.
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drkbodhiMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 2,378Arc User
Chuck Norris is a wuss... compared to Bruce Lee.
LOL
Atwil "At" - Tiefling TR / Saardush - Black Dragonborn GWF / White - Tiefling OP
Leadership Council of Civil Anarchy
SYNERGY Alliance
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rickcase276Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,404Arc User
edited July 2015
Could also be that the HEs will scale to the number of accounts in your guild. I think also it will greatly depend on if the stronghold zones are scaled to level 60 or level 70.
Chuck Norris is a wuss... compared to Bruce Lee.LOL
Pff.. Even Clint Eastwood effed upBruce Lee. How hard can it be?
Read the "Monsters at the gate" developer's blog please. It stated the first thing before you even get to the plot of your guild base is to fight through HEs.
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icyphishMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,255Arc User
You dont need to win the fight against big pvp guilds, just get a 3 Paladin 3 DC combo, nothing would die, ever!!!!!：Ｄ
As I look to the horizon and see a new expansion that appears to be a guild grind it makes me wonder if the direction of the game is going to forget about people who choose to play solo. Yes, I have a guild, But It was people I played with in previous games and they are not coming back.
I don't wish to get in a bigger guild, I like playing alone.
Is the game done for me and players like me who want to play solo and still have access to solid gear and events?
I've really been on the fence about staying in game since the greater dragon hoard enchantments got nerfed. It was a true slap that we didn't receive any notice and no compensation for them and I'm not over it.
I've been sticking around to see what happens but things look questionable.
I went from spending $60 a month to practically nothing.
So, tell me oh wise ones, what exciting news can you tell me that will make me wanna stick it out.
While yes it does sound like it contains mostly group/guild content, from everything I've read on Strongholds, I get the feeling that there will still be plenty for casuals and mostly solo players to participate in their own playstyle. Cryptic/PWE got a huge backlash, and still do, in this regard for Star Trek's Guild Starbases, so I am sure they will adapt from that feedback too. It is far too early to be making assumptions either way however.
You dont need to win the fight against big pvp guilds, just get a 3 Paladin 3 DC combo, nothing would die, ever!!!!!：Ｄ
I don't think your 3 paladinm, 3 dc combo can survive an 30 person with 4k+ iLvL army. Even if you think so, I don't think you answered OP's question unless you think you are SOLOING with a "3 paladin, 3 dc combo team".
U know, even eating irl is optional. U dont have to, unless u insist on being/remaining alive. The way "dont have to" or "its optional" is "used here" in a quite disgusting contexts lately.
A bit nosy NW-DKG7E99X6
"Hardcore" exploration journey and dungeon crawl. Read its description prior to trying it.
Well, my problem with guilds in UO was the non-consensual PVP. For your own guildies and for enemy faction guild players. There were quite a few griefers. When you were farming drags in Destard and an enemy guilder showed up, well the situation could have ended up quite messy. With that said I plan on opening up our small guild for recruits. I'm very curios if I can put my 15 years long guild leading experience to work lol...
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dheffernanMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 216Arc User
But there's at least a dozen great guilds that I know of that focus on the people, not just the toon and they're very easy to find...
I have discussed the topic many times in popular global channels in several MMOs. Everyone acts like I'm crazy for thinking guild members are supposed to be anything other than warm bodies.
@Venture-1@Venture from City of Heroes if you remember that far back. Yes, *that* Venture. Yes, I probably trashed your MA arc. For me it was Tuesday.
The solo players will be the ronin in a world ruled by samurai...
I suppose soloing will still be well possible, but increasingly harder - you'll probably miss out on a whole bunch of gear and/or boons to be acquired or crafted via the Stronghold infrastructure. IF this basically only means that you have to put time into building, supporting, and maintaining that Stronghold itself, and IF only with in-game means (time, currency), and IF PvP is consensual-only, it will do nobody no harm whatsoever to join a viable guild.
With so many "if"s I'm afraid it'll turn out differently. Especially that thing in the middle.
I'm also afraid my venerable, long-established guild of former glory and greatness... ...won't make the cut. :^/
...to put a more marketing-view touch to it: So far, if you don't spend on this game, you'll only maybe have a pang of guilt or bad conscience towards Cryptic.
With "Strongholds", they'll add peer pressure into the balance...
The solo players will be the ronin in a world ruled by samurai [...] With "Strongholds", they'll add peer pressure into the balance...
This is correct. it is and has been this way in the STO "Fleets" system.
The best gear, starships, boons and all the rest in in the Fleet's "Starbase" (their version of the Stronghold). When I say 'better" I mean literally; Fleet versions of starship are actually better than their Zen market counterparts.
It affects players in this way: the only way to get this better "Guild version" of gear, etc. is to contribute stuff to your guild (drops, AD, all kinds of currencies, etc.) to earn Guild Marks. These "Marks" are the currency to buy stuff from the Guild vendors where the best-in-game gear, weapons, items can be found (and can only be found here). You must be a member of the guild to be able to purchase from your guild vendor. There is no other way.
You also cannot contribute stuff (to earn marks) to a guild unless you are a member of that guild. This means "solo" players must join a guild to participate.
BALANCE: The larger guilds will have more players contributing, which means their Strongholds will grow faster, which means they will have gear/weapon/item vendors faster. Hence - more people will want to join the larger guilds. Hence: WHY THEY CAPPED GUILDS TO 150 MEMBERS.
Because they are thinking the cap will spread the membership across more guilds so that "super-guilds" cannot exist. Fine and fair the way I see it. But the solo player uninterested in joining a guild is still getting the <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>-end of the stick.
It's also why the world was split between Trammel (consensual PvP) and Felucca (free PvP). It pretty much set the tone for every MMO since, where players could choose to avoid the griefing if they wished.
The solo players will be the ronin in a world ruled by samurai [...] With "Strongholds", they'll add peer pressure into the balance...
This is correct. it is and has been this way in the STO "Fleets" system.
The best gear, starships, boons and all the rest in in the Fleet's "Starbase" (their version of the Stronghold). When I say 'better" I mean literally; Fleet versions of starship are actually better than their Zen market counterparts.
It affects players in this way: the only way to get this better "Guild version" of gear, etc. is to contribute stuff to your guild (drops, AD, all kinds of currencies, etc.) to earn Guild Marks. These "Marks" are the currency to buy stuff from the Guild vendors where the best-in-game gear, weapons, items can be found (and can only be found here). You must be a member of the guild to be able to purchase from your guild vendor. There is no other way.
You also cannot contribute stuff (to earn marks) to a guild unless you are a member of that guild. This means "solo" players must join a guild to participate.
BALANCE: The larger guilds will have more players contributing, which means their Strongholds will grow faster, which means they will have gear/weapon/item vendors faster. Hence - more people will want to join the larger guilds. Hence: WHY THEY CAPPED GUILDS TO 150 MEMBERS.
Because they are thinking the cap will spread the membership across more guilds so that "super-guilds" cannot exist. Fine and fair the way I see it. But the solo player uninterested in joining a guild is still getting the <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>-end of the stick.
Can you draw conclusions how a boon system would work? Do you only have access to those as long as you're in the guild or are they sort of unlocked in your campaign window and can be claimed permanently for your character?
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drkbodhiMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 2,378Arc User
They will be guild-only as I see it. You may have access to these boons if you merc for a guild.
Atwil "At" - Tiefling TR / Saardush - Black Dragonborn GWF / White - Tiefling OP
They will be guild-only as I see it. You may have access to these boons if you merc for a guild.
That's bad. Is a merc system in place in STO or just something you think would make sense?
Their are no Fleet Boons in STO, all are Campaign based and Character Skill based.
So we are at an unknown an Guild boons. But iot will probably be based on your guild Tag in the Database .
....so then being kicked from a guild would be really painful for you.
Ouch.
I can see on the horizon... ...more "competitive" guilds extorting a lot of slave labour from their new-ish recruits.
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drkbodhiMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 2,378Arc User
....so then being kicked from a guild would be really painful for you.
Ouch.
I can see on the horizon... ...more "competitive" guilds extorting a lot of slave labour from their new-ish recruits.
Then they would choose to leave if they did not like the "abuse". I agree that it would hurt to leave or be kicked from a guild. The boons maybe such that it buffs the members, instead of being individually specific.
Atwil "At" - Tiefling TR / Saardush - Black Dragonborn GWF / White - Tiefling OP
If PVP is not consensual, Strongholds may be DOA. Many have asked for guild housing and I hope this fulfills that request. Although I am in a large guild, I hope small guilds can find some fun in this new module. Will definitely take longer than being in a larger guild though.
I doubt there would be non-consentual PvP. Cryptic has never been known to "force" players into PvP, not even with CoH/CoV, and that was kinda the point with those games.
Honestly, Cryptic just doesn't know how to "do" PvP enough to make something non-consentual or FFA even work in a remotely viable fashion. I mean look at the PvP in NW already... They are both utter failures.
Yeah but all correct GEAR stay in PVP / Cryptic dont force to play PVP / XD
Can you draw conclusions how a boon system would work? Do you only have access to those as long as you're in the guild or are they sort of unlocked in your campaign window and can be claimed permanently for your character?
In STO they are called "Reputation" and you contribute Mark toward the "Project". This is a UI Window in your client app - like the Professions window or the Campaigns window. As you contribute to the guild coffers you get Marks (in STO it's called Reputation) - the marks will probably sit in your currency tab like all the rest.
Then for the boons you will open your "project" UI (think: professions UI) - select a "project slot" and choose what that project is from a list of several. The Project has resource requirements, you get the resources and then "contribute" the resources to the "project".
It works amazingly alot like the way Campaigns do right now - and may even be the same UI (in the campaigns UI) - I don't know. Marks themselves will be used to buy from Guild vendors - which will be the same in all guilds depending on the level of the guild.
Any resources you have and any marks (contribution credit) you have earned are permanently yours. if you leave the guild and join a new one nothing changes: you still have all that you've earned. So you can think of this as a new "campaign" more or less as everything you do benefits you directly (along with the guild) and what you earn you keep no matter what.
NOTE: This is how it works in STO. In Neverwinter some of the names may be changed to protect the innocent and some of the UI and actual step-by-steps may be a bit different. But the overall gist will all be the same.
Comments
Then the Planes of Power expansion created a "funnel effect" that destroyed the Arbiters and every other guild that wasn't oriented around performance gaming. And it's seemed to me ever since, in every MMO I've seen, the idea of social guilds that serve as online communities is DOA. Guilds recruit willy-nilly to increase headcount and just toss out people who aren't meeting their standards for item level or whatever. Guild members aren't online friends any more; they're components.
I don't expect Strongholds to do anything to improve the situation. If anything it will make it worse. I'm in a single-player guild now (called Arbiters, of course) made so I could take part in GG. I'm not really interested in disbanding it, even if only because I'd have to find space for all the junk in my one guild bank tab. I was thinking of buying another when the Strongholds announcement was made, actually, but that seems like a dumb idea now. I expect to get precisely nothing out of Strongholds and it wouldn't surprise me if I lost what little I already have somehow.
In any case I'm just not excited about the next expansion.
1. I'm a casual due to RL commitments
2. I'm an Altoholic
The combination of the above mean I'm a bad fit for guild membership as not only do I have limited play time but I might often be in game on multiple toons during that time. I don't want to be 'that guy' who joins a guild but is hardly ever around or participating in guild runs due to lack of time etc.
So for people like me, solo play is pretty much the only option rather than just a preference.
Aelar Hawkwind - Archer
Karrin Feywinter - Mistress of Flame
Errin Duskwalker - Executioner
Darquess - Soulbinder
That's simply not true. Yes, there are guilds like that, but they tend to burn bright for as long as they can feed the beast and hide all it's <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>. But once people pull back the rug, they see there's nothing there but a big pile of...
But there's at least a dozen great guilds that I know of that focus on the people, not just the toon and they're very easy to find...
And let's also be realistic here...you're talking about UO and EQ...that's almost 20 years ago. Don't let the rose-colored glasses of the past ruin your chance at having fun in the present.
CA doesn't openly recruit in the forums... and the guild has been around.
I'm unguilded and primarily a PvE soloer. I wasn't bothered by Gauntlgrym's guild zones, Icewind Dale's PvP, Tiamat's raid, or other content updates that didn't match my playstyle because I had so many other things to do that did match my playstyle.
Maybe they should sell solo-guild charters for 1000 zen. I would buy one and poke around in Strongholds. Otherwise, I'm mostly waiting for Module 8's Underdark, while playing other games.
It is quite obvious, don't expect to survive solo unless you can solo HEs and fight off biggie guilds alone, or your name is Chuck Norris.
LOL
Read the "Monsters at the gate" developer's blog please. It stated the first thing before you even get to the plot of your guild base is to fight through HEs.
Author of GWF Speed Demon PvP Build (Mod 11) <- Click to reveal the Speedy Beast! >:)
While yes it does sound like it contains mostly group/guild content, from everything I've read on Strongholds, I get the feeling that there will still be plenty for casuals and mostly solo players to participate in their own playstyle. Cryptic/PWE got a huge backlash, and still do, in this regard for Star Trek's Guild Starbases, so I am sure they will adapt from that feedback too. It is far too early to be making assumptions either way however.
[ Support Center • Rules & Policies and Guidelines • ARC ToS • Guild Recruitment Guidelines | FR DM Since 1993 ]
I don't think your 3 paladinm, 3 dc combo can survive an 30 person with 4k+ iLvL army. Even if you think so, I don't think you answered OP's question unless you think you are SOLOING with a "3 paladin, 3 dc combo team".
I have discussed the topic many times in popular global channels in several MMOs. Everyone acts like I'm crazy for thinking guild members are supposed to be anything other than warm bodies.
I suppose soloing will still be well possible, but increasingly harder - you'll probably miss out on a whole bunch of gear and/or boons to be acquired or crafted via the Stronghold infrastructure. IF this basically only means that you have to put time into building, supporting, and maintaining that Stronghold itself, and IF only with in-game means (time, currency), and IF PvP is consensual-only, it will do nobody no harm whatsoever to join a viable guild.
With so many "if"s I'm afraid it'll turn out differently. Especially that thing in the middle.
I'm also afraid my venerable, long-established guild of former glory and greatness... ...won't make the cut. :^/
...to put a more marketing-view touch to it: So far, if you don't spend on this game, you'll only maybe have a pang of guilt or bad conscience towards Cryptic.
With "Strongholds", they'll add peer pressure into the balance...
This is correct. it is and has been this way in the STO "Fleets" system.
The best gear, starships, boons and all the rest in in the Fleet's "Starbase" (their version of the Stronghold). When I say 'better" I mean literally; Fleet versions of starship are actually better than their Zen market counterparts.
It affects players in this way: the only way to get this better "Guild version" of gear, etc. is to contribute stuff to your guild (drops, AD, all kinds of currencies, etc.) to earn Guild Marks. These "Marks" are the currency to buy stuff from the Guild vendors where the best-in-game gear, weapons, items can be found (and can only be found here). You must be a member of the guild to be able to purchase from your guild vendor. There is no other way.
You also cannot contribute stuff (to earn marks) to a guild unless you are a member of that guild. This means "solo" players must join a guild to participate.
BALANCE: The larger guilds will have more players contributing, which means their Strongholds will grow faster, which means they will have gear/weapon/item vendors faster. Hence - more people will want to join the larger guilds. Hence: WHY THEY CAPPED GUILDS TO 150 MEMBERS.
Because they are thinking the cap will spread the membership across more guilds so that "super-guilds" cannot exist. Fine and fair the way I see it. But the solo player uninterested in joining a guild is still getting the <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>-end of the stick.
It's also why the world was split between Trammel (consensual PvP) and Felucca (free PvP). It pretty much set the tone for every MMO since, where players could choose to avoid the griefing if they wished.
Can you draw conclusions how a boon system would work? Do you only have access to those as long as you're in the guild or are they sort of unlocked in your campaign window and can be claimed permanently for your character?
That's bad. Is a merc system in place in STO or just something you think would make sense?
....so then being kicked from a guild would be really painful for you.
Ouch.
I can see on the horizon... ...more "competitive" guilds extorting a lot of slave labour from their new-ish recruits.
Then they would choose to leave if they did not like the "abuse". I agree that it would hurt to leave or be kicked from a guild. The boons maybe such that it buffs the members, instead of being individually specific.
In STO they are called "Reputation" and you contribute Mark toward the "Project". This is a UI Window in your client app - like the Professions window or the Campaigns window. As you contribute to the guild coffers you get Marks (in STO it's called Reputation) - the marks will probably sit in your currency tab like all the rest.
Then for the boons you will open your "project" UI (think: professions UI) - select a "project slot" and choose what that project is from a list of several. The Project has resource requirements, you get the resources and then "contribute" the resources to the "project".
It works amazingly alot like the way Campaigns do right now - and may even be the same UI (in the campaigns UI) - I don't know. Marks themselves will be used to buy from Guild vendors - which will be the same in all guilds depending on the level of the guild.
Any resources you have and any marks (contribution credit) you have earned are permanently yours. if you leave the guild and join a new one nothing changes: you still have all that you've earned. So you can think of this as a new "campaign" more or less as everything you do benefits you directly (along with the guild) and what you earn you keep no matter what.
NOTE: This is how it works in STO. In Neverwinter some of the names may be changed to protect the innocent and some of the UI and actual step-by-steps may be a bit different. But the overall gist will all be the same.