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Patch Notes: NW.45.20150515a.6

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  • slintashslintash Member Posts: 172 Bounty Hunter
    edited June 2015
    CW has been damage for beta, launch and 5 and a half mods.

    And now thats over, and should of been over 5 mods ago.

    Adapt or die.
  • helpimblindinrlhelpimblindinrl Member Posts: 972 Arc User
    edited June 2015
    Swings and roundabouts chump
  • fuglymookfuglymook Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 119 Arc User
    edited June 2015
    I've never been in a group with mof that was even remotely close to me in damage.

    What you are failing to comprehend is that without SS MoF is equal or better build. It plays better with team concept which was the DEVs stated goal for MOD 6, TEAM WORK not a CW running ahead of group and killing mobs with a broken class feature. All the classes are being brought into line with the team role idea in mind. Adapt or die or worse go play WoW!
  • aulduronaulduron Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,351 Arc User
    edited June 2015
    OK. Using OF is the difference. Fine.

    I don't think Ive ever been in a group without a Terror or PF. There are usually both. You don't think a DC with bigger heals is a good thing?

    Please name one control class in this game that does not do a lot of damage.
    You want to be able to control every mob while still doing tons of damage. Well guess what, YOU CANT.

    Of course I can. I've been doing it since open beta. I did it today, and I'll do it tomorrow after this change.
    A GWF/SW will DPS better than you, period

    Some are. Most aren't. I don't care if I do more than other classes, as long as we all do enough.

    I have no idea which HRs are trappers, and which aren't. Why is that relevant? They're both strikers.

    I want to play a DPS class, so I rolled a CW. I'm OK with that. You seem to be the one who is not.
    . Your attitude is why i keep bringing up paingiver, all people like yourself care about is "Me me me", which is why you are focused on what you can do as an individual and not the whole team and what you can accomplish together.

    Didn't you just say not to make this about me? Log into the game and ask in legit if any of the things you just said about me are true. Which teammates were those?

    What makes you think that high DPS CW is not indicative of good teaamwork? We are all working together to kill the mobs, before they kill us. As a SS Rene CW, I do this with lot of DPS, control, group buffs, and even heals. That is my job in my team, and I do them all. A tank does it by holding aggro off of us and buffing the team. A DC does it by Healing, buffing and debuffing....etc. That is team work
  • slintashslintash Member Posts: 172 Bounty Hunter
    edited June 2015
    aulduron wrote: »

    I don't think Ive ever been in a group without a Terror or PF. There are usually both. You don't think a DC with bigger heals is a good thing?

    Sigh. You are either willingly ignorant or just dont get the point.
    aulduron wrote: »
    Please name one control class in this game that does not do a lot of damage.

    I did, trapper HR will do alot less damage than a GWF. Next.
    aulduron wrote: »
    Of course I can. I've been doing it since open beta. I did it today, and I'll do it tomorrow after this change.

    Again proves my point of wanting to be able to do everything.

    You dont get it at all do you? If a CW can do just as much damage as a GWF then why would anyone being a GWF when a CW can do more than just damage? Same with SW? Thats what they did in mod 6 thats great, they made classes have a ROLE. CW is NOT to do massive amounts of damage.

    aulduron wrote: »
    Some are. Most aren't. I don't care if I do more than other classes, as long as we all do enough.

    Missed the point entirely.
    aulduron wrote: »
    I have no idea which HRs are trappers, and which aren't. Why is that relevant? They're both strikers.

    One is more focused on control one isnt for a start. For someone that plays “every class” you are very ignorant to their roles.
    aulduron wrote: »
    I want to play a DPS class, so I rolled a CW. I'm OK with that. You seem to be the one who is not.

    Because its NOT a primary DPS class, it is a CONTROLLER CLASS. Seriously how ignorant are you at this point? Want DPS? Play a DPS class like a GWF.

    aulduron wrote: »
    Didn't you just say not to make this about me? Log into the game and ask in legit if any of the things you just said about me are true. Which teammates were those?

    Which is why you then made it about you when i told you not to make it about you. Its an example, which again you missed the point. Which again inst surprising at this stage.

    CW spreads mobs, 2 teammates get pissed off. That's the example, read. Learn.
    aulduron wrote: »
    What makes you think that high DPS CW is not indicative of good teaamwork? We are all working together to kill the mobs, before they kill us. As a SS Rene CW, I do this with lot of DPS, control, group buffs, and even heals. That is my job in my team, and I do them all. A tank does it by holding aggro off of us and buffing the team. A DC does it by Healing, buffing and debuffing....etc. That is team work

    The same reason i think a tanky SW isnt good for “teamwork”, someone else can do it better and its NOT their main role.
  • cambo1682cambo1682 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 164 Arc User
    edited June 2015
    Been playing two years and really don't post much in the forums, I read them a lot. I liked this game. I've spent more money than I would like to admit on it and devoted a great deal of time learning and experimenting on every class. Some I like better than others at different times / mods. I won't try to respond to the plethora of self proclaimed experts in here dictating who should play what how. I do know this: The group that I play with regularly enjoy playing our characters together and WE know our roles in a dungeon. We do not pug often for this reason. Call it team work, call it synergy, call it whatever, but part of the enjoyment I glean from this game is the friendship, fun and laughs we have. Tiamat entry mechanics were a death knell for that kind of play.

    Change is certain, the problem however is that Cryptic has consistently and persistently rolled out nerf after nerf of classes with minimal understanding of what their ripple effect will have. Some players will like it when other classes get nerfed. Pretty sad little existence to my mind but it's their right I suppose to point and whinge and preach about who should play what how. Others will suck it up and try to adapt. Every time this happens though there is an impact to the players that play those classes. TT for SW, DJ for OP recently (arguably not really a nerf but it impacts playstyle) etc. and now this for CW. I play all of these classes. Noone on this thread can say anything that will make me think I am having fun when I'm not. Cryptic cannot convince me I'm having fun when they continuously subject me and my friends to changes that causes some of them to just give up and move on to another game.

    Massive changes to a character's powers have both an impact on the playability / enjoyment as well as a financial impact for some who choose to spend money. When it's boiled down, Cryptic is a business that needs to make money. Their business model is baffling much of the time, though I suspect a good part of it is not favorable to established players. I hope that somehow they understand that these constant untested 'nerfs' cost them customers, some times well established customers, sometimes new. Will I try to adjust to this change? of course. But the reality is that for my CW I am not happy about it. I have all but stopped playing my SW. I'm sure I'm not the only person with a NW account who may reduce their play time because a character becomes less fun to play. If playtime diminishes, then so does the opportunity for Cryptic to make money from those players, and this I believe is the key point that they just don't seem to get, no matter how blatantly obvious it is.
  • aulduronaulduron Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,351 Arc User
    edited June 2015
    The point is that using my vorpal is best for the team more often than than the others. If I had more AD and bagspace, I'd carry all 3 and switch them out once I inspected the group. But I don't, so I keep the vorp.

    A trapper HR is a striker, not a controller. He just has more control than the other HRs. He has less than a TR, less than a CW and less than a tank.
    Again proves my point of wanting to be able to do everything.


    I never denied that. Who doesnt want to do everything. I do as much as I can, with what they give me. Tomorrow, they'll give me a little less, and I'll still do as much as I can. I expect everyone on my team to do the same.
    If a CW can do just as much damage as a GWF then why would anyone being a GWF when a CW can do more than just damage? Same with SW? Thats what they did in mod 6 thats great, they made classes have a ROLE. CW is NOT to do massive amounts of damage

    Ask them. In my case, I do it because it's a different play style. All classes should be ale to compete. Classes had the same roles in every mod. In mod 6, they certainly made 5 DPS groups more challenging though. Of course CWs are supposed to do massive damage. It's in their description. Talk about being willfully ignorant and not getting it.
    Missed the point entirely

    No. I corrected your erroneous statement.
    One is more focused on control one isnt for a start. For someone that plays “every class” you are very ignorant to their roles.

    An HRs role is to DPS.It is either poorly equipped for that job, or else most HRs, including myself, suck at playing them. That doesn't change the fact that I have to ask, to know their path . They can all use the same powers.
    Because its NOT a primary DPS class, it is a CONTROLLER CLASS. Seriously how ignorant are you at this point? Want DPS? Play a DPS class like a GWF

    Do yourself a favor and look up Control Wizard. Educate yourself, if you dare. I mostly quit my GWF because my CW does more DPS, and is a lot more fun. How can you tell me a CW is not a DPS class, when thye can usually out DPS every class, while filling 2 DPS roles?

    While I really wish OF didn't move mobs at all, you're acting like it's Ice Storm. It barely moves the mobs, and a smart CW moves them all in the same direction. Ive never had OF screw up any of my other characters rotations. Not even IBS, Daunting Light, Sudden Storm, RoA or Shard. You're exaggerating and just trying to find fault
  • demonkyuubidemonkyuubi Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited June 2015
    I love this role talk, a nerf that you like happens and suddenly everyone turns into a neckbearded grognard saying it should be this way because DnD. For as long as Neverinter has been around cw has been dps. It still will be its just going to be weaker until its stronger again. And now that they're weaker you better believe the gwf nerfs are in the mail.

    the nerf is only like 15% or so drop in overall dps anyways according to logs in some other thread. personally, i am completely fine if a wizard wants to dps....just control the mobs so the rest of us don't die to the 1-shots.

    unfortunately, i can't deny a nerf will happen when a cw suggests it. anything the cw community wants nerfed almost always gets nerfed and several classes was hit by that.
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  • mark88arsitekmark88arsitek Member Posts: 28 Arc User
    edited June 2015
    I feel like the whole cw community is speechless in shock. I know storm spell was out of line, but this change harkens back to the old dev team who just smashed things with the nerfhammer and left them broken. If you're going to slaughter the skill that does 60% of our damage, maybe you should buff something to compensate? This will leave us with barely any damage. If you felt cws were doing too much damage, maybe you should take a look at the insanity that a geared GWF can pull off.

    Time to make another toon my main until this debacle is scaled back.

    Dont think so.. at HIgh level pvp.. CW is OP damage. too over
  • fuglymookfuglymook Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 119 Arc User
    edited June 2015
    aulduron wrote: »
    The point is that using my vorpal is best for the team more often than than the others. If I had more AD and bagspace, I'd carry all 3 and switch them out once I inspected the group. But I don't, so I keep the vorp.

    A trapper HR is a striker, not a controller. He just has more control than the other HRs. He has less than a TR, less than a CW and less than a tank.




    I never denied that. Who doesnt want to do everything. I do as much as I can, with what they give me. Tomorrow, they'll give me a little less, and I'll still do as much as I can. I expect everyone on my team to do the same.



    Ask them. In my case, I do it because it's a different play style. All classes should be ale to compete. Classes had the same roles in every mod. In mod 6, they certainly made 5 DPS groups more challenging though. Of course CWs are supposed to do massive damage. It's in their description. Talk about being willfully ignorant and not getting it.



    No. I corrected your erroneous statement.



    An HRs role is to DPS.It is either poorly equipped for that job, or else most HRs, including myself, suck at playing them. That doesn't change the fact that I have to ask, to know their path . They can all use the same powers.



    Do yourself a favor and look up Control Wizard. Educate yourself, if you dare. I mostly quit my GWF because my CW does more DPS, and is a lot more fun. How can you tell me a CW is not a DPS class, when thye can usually out DPS every class, while filling 2 DPS roles?

    While I really wish OF didn't move mobs at all, you're acting like it's Ice Storm. It barely moves the mobs, and a smart CW moves them all in the same direction. Ive never had OF screw up any of my other characters rotations. Not even IBS, Daunting Light, Sudden Storm, RoA or Shard. You're exaggerating and just trying to find fault

    Controller
    Controllers influence fights by controlling either the field of battle or targets directly. Their role is to ensure threats are minimized or handled efficiently.

    Control Wizard
    Controller / Striker

    See what is listed first? Read the description? Control Wizard is THE ONLY class who's primary role as listed on Neverwinter wiki is CONTROLLER. Educate yourself....
  • slintashslintash Member Posts: 172 Bounty Hunter
    edited June 2015
    aulduron wrote: »


    An HRs role is to DPS.It is either poorly equipped for that job, or else most HRs, including myself, suck at playing them. That doesn't change the fact that I have to ask, to know their path . They can all use the same powers.

    Do yourself a favor and look up Control Wizard. Educate yourself, if you dare. I mostly quit my GWF because my CW does more DPS, and is a lot more fun. How can you tell me a CW is not a DPS class, when thye can usually out DPS every class, while filling 2 DPS roles?

    This is my last attempt, because honestly, this is getting borderline pointless.

    First off, don't be a condescending tool if you want me or anyone else to take you seriously. "Educate yourself, if you dare", just pathetic to resort to such nonsense in a debate.

    Secondly, im going to make this as CLEAR as a i can for you.

    A GWF, and a SW, can Only provide DPS under certain paths, especially SW FURY. Now, why would you ever bring a SW FURY along if you could do the same or more DPS with a CW, while the CW is also providing buffs and control, and whatever else they might be useful for?

    This is why in previous mods tanks were NOT needed. This is why healers were NOT needed. Hell most dps classes wernt even needed or wanted at All. And do you know why? Because whenever I played my CW i simply didnt need them. Why do i need a tank or a healer when i can perma CC an entire mob hoard and on top of that, murder that entire hoard at the same time? Why would i need a GWF or a TR when i can kill the entire mob hoard before they even land 1 melee strike? This was Mod 5 and before, Mod 6 is not like that as much, like i said, you now require different classes.

    But hey, if you see no issue with a CW being able to fill "2 DPS Roles", then theres no point in even trying. Just delete every other class and roll a CW, that's what it always boils down to in this discussion. "I want everything and i want it now".

    As for "CW not being a DPS class" Ill repeat again, they are PRIMARY controllers and SECONDARY strikers. A secondary striker being able to do more DPS than a primary striker is just moronic.
  • mark88arsitekmark88arsitek Member Posts: 28 Arc User
    edited June 2015
    yea.. now i can kill CW. who permanently dodge...
    where is nerf of GF super damage?? and thief permanent stealth??
  • fuglymookfuglymook Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 119 Arc User
    edited June 2015
    Control Wizards primarily focus on controlling the battlefield and dealing damage to a large number of creatures simultaneously. Because of the wizard's role as a controller, they possess more crowd control options than any other class. Their ability to deal high amounts of damage gives them the secondary role of striker. They wield a magical orb and are capable of unleashing torrents of damage on enemy parties. They can only wear cloth armor. - Direct from Neverwinter Wiki Control Wizard page
  • fuglymookfuglymook Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 119 Arc User
    edited June 2015
    No one has said that CWs shouldn't be able to do good dps, good players/good geared players find ways to do good dps but average players with mediocre gear should not be able to do the best damage in a dungeon.
  • zacazuzacazu Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,934 Arc User
    edited June 2015
    query523 wrote: »
    You fail to understand why DG was a problem. It was because with one feat you could get plenty of DPS then go IV sent and be nigh invulnerable too. GWfs now get great DPS but can be kind of fragile. If you think CW's controlis bad you whould try...... EVERY OTHER CLASS IN THE GAME. I happen to know their control was fine past Mod4 because I was using one. Everyone's control is dimi9nished Mod6 this is true. But when you play a class that has a dozen utility powers complaining about a loss of DPS just sounds like whining.

    +1. and that gwfs in general are expensive destroyers-sword masters, by the way. using a very specific rotation. is like a one eye guy complain because the mute can see... pure revenge or pride. no one objective argument.
    slintash wrote: »
    Here's a very simple example off the top of my head.

    Ranger uses Rain of Arrows.

    CW then uses Oppressive Force.

    Oh look, the mobs are now not only spread all over the place (The complete Opposite of control by the way), but you've actually messed up what your party is attempting to do.

    Compared to say, a CW that uses Singularity or Furious Immolation to bring the mobs closer together, then the HR fires his Arrows into the pack of mobs instead of missing completely due to one CW wanting to get top DPS.

    yes, cws and rogues have the behaviour to "run to the inside" the mobs and use your cc . but rogues will daze/aggro (good thing for the party). cws, spread and sustain that position (it+of+st). every video about cw is the same behaviour. in game, in fact you see a lot of cws using very well your range/cc to do the general job better. is not something about "what power use" but how use that power. but is really, really hard do a mess using Singularity or Furious Immolation. give more easy cc tools is not a problem im my opinion.

    back to the main problem: i dont will have much things to do w/o the farm things. well, i will wait for some 2xrp event and see if the effort will have return.
  • icyphishicyphish Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,255 Arc User
    edited June 2015
    Is CW's SS nerf equivilent to GWF's prone being taken away at Mod 3 or CAGI/DS being nerfed at mod5 and again mod6? :o
    icydrake%20avatar2_zpsg7rp0xti.jpg

    Author of GWF Speed Demon PvP Build (Mod 11) <- Click to reveal the Speedy Beast! >:)
  • rayrdanrayrdan Member Posts: 5,410 Arc User
    edited June 2015
    Yai changes to ss appreciated
    Thanks for the changes to tenacity too
  • quincunxmasterquincunxmaster Member Posts: 1 Arc User
    edited June 2015
    This change is not a surprise to me. The entire philosophy behind game balance in this game is the opposite you see in a lot of other games, the idea of 'Power Creep'. This is something I've stated a lot in PE main chat but I think this change should really strike home with people, and finally get them to face up to this design philosophy.

    However, having said that, I'm fine with this change. CW should be more about control, in many ways they have had it easy up until now, comparative with other classes, so the fact that people have to change the way they play to be more control focused can only be a good thing. I do expect other things will get buffed if this is too much of a change in the negative, but SS was a far too generous feature, and I say this as a CW player primarily.
  • helpimblindinrlhelpimblindinrl Member Posts: 972 Arc User
    edited June 2015
    You're going to have some good fun finding out exactly how weak your encounters are.
  • doidlokodoidloko Member Posts: 104 Arc User
    edited June 2015
    Control Wizard: Can't control(enemies have 90% control resist or are purely immune, can't take a hit... what are we supposed to do again?

    thats correct, 90% of stuns dont work when work its for 1s wtf
  • rversantrversant Member Posts: 896 Arc User
    edited June 2015
    icyphish wrote: »
    Is CW's SS nerf equivilent to GWF's prone being taken away at Mod 3 or CAGI/DS being nerfed at mod5 and again mod6? :o

    ^ This.

    Classes get buffed, Classes get nerfed,

    I wasn't happy with the GWF nerfs in mod 4 and 5 and the CAGI/DS nerf in mod 6, But I adapted. The ONLY thing GWF does is phat DPS, it doesn't really control, It doesn't tank (reliably) Its "buff" skills are pretty HAMSTER (other than HD, which is far too strong imo) and its debuff is just copied from GF.

    Suck it up, try out other builds that don't rely on all the damage coming from one passive, and stick to the class roots. When Lostmauth gets its nerf (I mean, seriously, this set IS SO OP, that classes that dont even benefit from its stats use it!) Everyone will complain again, but they know its going to happen. People who try out other strategies or think outside the box are the ones who help shape the new meta. I remember when CW had the mindset that Thaum was the only way to go, and that renegade was useless, Now everyone loves renegade because someone tried something different. People still say bad things about Oppressor, yet theres multiple videos of a CW using an oppressor build successfully. and hey, you can still go Negation + shield and be pretty much magneto.
    Live, Learn, Adapt.
    People are way too negative, Why cant we just all get along.


    Drunken Goose of MidNight Express. - 3.3k Paladin , 3.6k GWF , 3.1k GF,
  • spideymtspideymt Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 710 Arc User
    edited June 2015
    For the millionth time I've probably said this about the cw: We. Are. Not. Controllers. We have never been controllers.

    Ha ha ha...i think i found my new top signatur quote ^^. Thx.

  • helpimblindinrlhelpimblindinrl Member Posts: 972 Arc User
    edited June 2015
    rversant wrote: »
    ^ This.

    People who try out other strategies or think outside the box are the ones who help shape the new meta. I remember when CW had the mindset that Thaum was the only way to go, and that renegade was useless. People still say bad things about oppressor, yet theres multiple videos of a CW using an oppressor build successfully.

    Live, Learn, Adapt.

    Did you ever hear about the guy who killed his parents and wanted sympathy for being an orphan? Stormspell got buffed because they took so much damage off the encounters. It was a compensation.

    As for adapt. I hate to break it to you but switching to renegade wasn't an adaptation the devs buffed it, we saw it was more efficient and we moved. This isn't rocketscience. Your roleplaying a strategic thinker is pretty amusing though. After an unpleasant nerf announcement its most welcome. Have an apple.
  • spideymtspideymt Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 710 Arc User
    edited June 2015
    I love the new fixes. And i love the nerf from Storm spell. Maybe you can see now more CWs with vals set?

  • ryoshinetteryoshinette Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 488 Arc User
    edited June 2015
    panderus wrote: »
    Classes and Balance

    Items and Economy
    • Icewind Dale: Heroic Encounter rewards have been reduced.
    • Trickster Rogue Rare primary weapons level 61+ are not only usable in the main hand.

    I see. So people farm to much and stop to buy from bots. So now drop is reduced. That's makes sense.
    Is that a fixing of bug, that Tr's can use enchants (vorpals for example) on both - main and offhand? Or something else?
    Ryoshin GF (4.2k)
    .Suicide Squad.




  • skitzopyroskitzopyro Member Posts: 125 Arc User
    edited June 2015
    Seems like he is saying "You just upgraded the RP drops 2 days ago and made it something we could farm but you comically decided to take it away for no reason, so why did you add it in the first place?"
  • skitzopyroskitzopyro Member Posts: 125 Arc User
    edited June 2015
    Trickster Rogue Rare primary weapons level 61+ are not only usable in the main hand.

    not = now?
  • biocraftfrbiocraftfr Member Posts: 8 Arc User
    edited June 2015
    hey guys now SS it's nerfed what to use ?
  • spqwnspqwn Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 43 Arc User
    edited June 2015
    biocraftfr wrote: »
    hey guys now SS it's nerfed what to use ?

    Maybe it's still ok. We'll have to test and see. If it's not, maybe move to MoF.
This discussion has been closed.