On my main I use control dailies all the tiime (at a huge dps loss) to help ensure party success.
Not my main but I builtan Oppressor after the entire library (almost) told me not to. Amazng how nigh-invulnerable it is. It just kills things slowly.....
yes, but all dont understand, spell storm its the best skill for cw. if remove this we will have nothing good.
cw is not like Trs all builds are good, we have 1 good build for pvp and 1 good skill for pvp.
Now nerfing this we dont have nothing good, we will be the **** class of this game.
90% of cw´s use vopal, focus on critical and use spell storm, because mage of fire its terrible, impossible for pvp.
we dont have what to make now, only see TR´S them laughing even more of us. And this already look at enclave chat geral.
All Trs happy for this change of cw
I feel like the whole cw community is speechless in shock. I know storm spell was out of line, but this change harkens back to the old dev team who just smashed things with the nerfhammer and left them broken. If you're going to slaughter the skill that does 60% of our damage, maybe you should buff something to compensate? This will leave us with barely any damage. If you felt cws were doing too much damage, maybe you should take a look at the insanity that a geared GWF can pull off.
Time to make another toon my main until this debacle is scaled back.
on the other hand,
Repel: This spell should no longer be able to be dodge cancelled infinitely.
1 second is all you need as it interrupts their attacks and puts them on CD again. Trickster Rogues do in fact use tricks on their enemies such as bait and switch, smoke screen, stealth. The control wizard has the most CCs and most effective CCs in game and yet 90% refuse to use them. A good controlling CW can make runs so easy and increase the damage all party members do in group and the end goal is to beat boss and take loot. The DEVs fixed a broken class feature that critted 100% of time and in some cases procced multiple times in 1 second on same mob.
To be fair, trickster rogues do trick enemies, but they also tank everything with 100% deflect and 75% deflect severity making them take less than 5% of incoming damage... so they should be called tankster rogues instead yeah?
Hopefully the TRs don't just get the enchantment back in their bags.
And TRs wake up tomorrow morning to find the Transcendent vorpal they had equipped to blue offhand slot has vanished along with their blue offhand weapon, irreversibly gobbled up by the system
I feel like the whole cw community is speechless in shock. I know storm spell was out of line, but this change harkens back to the old dev team who just smashed things with the nerfhammer and left them broken. If you're going to slaughter the skill that does 60% of our damage, maybe you should buff something to compensate? This will leave us with barely any damage. If you felt cws were doing too much damage, maybe you should take a look at the insanity that a geared GWF can pull off.
Honestly some of us that play CW are laughing, pretty hard. Seriously, changing SS ruins your build so much that you lose 60%? Talk about putting all your eggs in one basket.
Also, people DO play MoF you know, so no the "whole" community definitely doesn't care. Speaking of which, since SS was "buffed due to our other powers dealing less damage", tell me, what did MoF get? *Silence*
Maybe you and everyone else complaining that you arnt top DPS dogs should learn to play a CONTROL wizard with CONTROL powers. You know, like some of us do. And yes, i do fine in T2s, thanks for asking.
Maybe you and everyone else complaining that you arnt top DPS dogs should learn to play a CONTROL wizard with CONTROL powers. You know, like some of us do. And yes, i do fine in T2s, thanks for asking.
ya, i hate dps-crazy cw's in pve. they make the runs so much more annoying than when an actual control wizard is in the group
What powers are mof using to get more control that ss? Nothing? Are you using feats to get more control? Well try it without them and see how much difference they make. Its not a lot. Its in fact pathetic. But you want to roleplay a wizard that's fine
What powers are mof using to get more control that ss? Nothing? Are you using feats to get more control? Well try it without them and see how much difference they make. Its not a lot. Its in fact pathetic. But you want to roleplay a wizard that's fine
u can get the silly icy veins feat regardless of path. it's your problem if you don't invest in it.
also, there is frost enchant but i doubt any cw seeking dps will want to sacrifice a weapon enchant for more control.
it has never been necessary to be a 100% oppressor but it does help
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aulduronMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,351Arc User
edited June 2015
ya, i hate dps-crazy cw's in pve. they make the runs so much more annoying than when an actual control wizard is in the group
I'm curious to know which powers these CWs use, and why you find them annoying. I'm DPS focused, but every encounter and daily power I use has some control in it, even if it's just spreading chill. Not coincidentally, those same powers give me the best DPS.
What, exactly, is an "actual control wizard", and how are they better than the other kind of CW,, whatever kind that may be?
I'm curious to know which powers these CWs use, and why you find them annoying. I'm DPS focused, but every encounter power I use has some control in it, even if it's just spreading chill. Not coincidentally, those same powers give me the best DPS.
What, exactly, is an "actual control wizard", and how are they better than the other kind of CW,, whatever kind that may be?
most wizards i run into tend to not control anything in the slightest. idk what they r doing since i am more focused on my own mobs.
kinda the main reason some runs fail which just makes me call on a cw friend to control the stuff for me since i can't keep everything dazed forever as a rogue. it's really sad to have 2 cw's in the group and a rogue out-controls both of them......
I'm curious to know which powers these CWs use, and why you find them annoying. I'm DPS focused, but every encounter and daily power I use has some control in it, even if it's just spreading chill. Not coincidentally, those same powers give me the best DPS.
What, exactly, is an "actual control wizard", and how are they better than the other kind of CW,, whatever kind that may be?
Here's a very simple example off the top of my head.
Ranger uses Rain of Arrows.
CW then uses Oppressive Force.
Oh look, the mobs are now not only spread all over the place (The complete Opposite of control by the way), but you've actually messed up what your party is attempting to do.
Compared to say, a CW that uses Singularity or Furious Immolation to bring the mobs closer together, then the HR fires his Arrows into the pack of mobs instead of missing completely due to one CW wanting to get top DPS.
That's simply one example and one power.
Now look at all the enchantments, companions, features, etc, that someone as a DPS CW will try to use to increase their own DPS instead of party buffs, or instead of favoring more control.
most wizards i run into tend to not control anything in the slightest. idk what they r doing since i am more focused on my own mobs.
kinda the main reason some runs fail which just makes me call on a cw friend to control the stuff for me since i can't keep everything dazed forever as a rogue. it's really sad to have 2 cw's in the group and a rogue out-controls both of them......
Even in T2's I see a lot of dps CW run ahead of everyone, engage early and first and alone and then complain later about aggro if they fall. I never tell anyone how to play as I say do it the way you enjoy it but they seem to have an uncontrollable lust to chase paingiver so hard that it often is problematic for the rest -- not to mention them.
What a contradictory post. They aren't controlling anything but I don't know what they are doing. Makes no sense as regards dungeons, kind of makes sense if your basis of comparison is some key in the distance while doing your daily quests
Oppressive force is better control you clown, the mobs can hit you in singularity and the mof daily and they won't move anywhere anymore because they are wildly cc resistant. Oppressive force is a stunlock and you are safe when its up.
as a melee class, i can't watch what a ranged dps is doing since they r not even on my screen. especially since i am near mobs that can 1-shot me through deflect if i am not paying attention (even if i am paying attention the tank might move around and drag me into the melee aoes....)
as for oppressive, i have to agree on it not being useful since it does push things away and can potentially make a mess immediately afterwards for the melees.
oh and mof daily does come with a feat to daze the mobs
as a melee class, i can't watch what a ranged dps is doing since they r not even on my screen. especially since i am near mobs that can 1-shot me through deflect if i am not paying attention (even if i am paying attention the tank might move around and drag me into the melee aoes....)
as for oppressive, i have to agree on it not being useful since it does push things away and can potentially make a mess immediately afterwards for the melees.
Set your FoV back. Even melee needs to know what is going on with their party.
PVP: Armor Penetration Resistance now correctly works as expected against players.
Great, Thanks for the bugfix
Tenacity: Armor Penetration Resistance is now multiplicative. Base Armor penetration resistance is now 20% to compensate.
Perfect, We've been asking for this since we were informed how it was going too work, and showed our maths, BIG ++++ for the devs listening to the PvP community.
Tenacity: Damage Resistance and Critical Resistance from Tenacity are now correctly multiplicative.
Also a big + , Crits are now not weaker than normal hits again, and DR will be more balanced between tanks and other classes
Control Wizard
Repel: This spell should no longer be able to be dodge cancelled infinitely.
Bugfix, Thanks
Storm Spell: This class feature now has a .5 second ICD and can no longer critically strike.
This. Is. HUGE. To be totally honest, I think Just one of them would of been a fine fix (remove the ability to crit) But this brings stormspell in line with other dps boosting passives. It also promotes new styles of play, expecting too see more control oriented wizards and less pew pew wizards.
Great Weapon Fighter
Punishing Charge: Rank 4 now correctly increases your number of charges.
Bugfix, Thanks. However Punishing charge is still extremely rarely used due to the extremely short range and no targetting.
Guardian Fighter
Line Breaker Assault: This power will now consistently activate when hitting targets.
Hopefully this doesn't cause any loop bugs, but will be good too see the difference.
Hunter Ranger
Thorned Roots: This damage component of this power is no longer incorrectly resisted by control resist.
bugfix, Awesome work
Items and Economy
Icewind Dale: Heroic Encounter rewards have been reduced.
Was going to happen, there was TOO much free RP going around and we all knew it. 50% chance for peridot on normal, and 100% peridot + 50% chance for aquamarine on great success would be my idea, but we'll see how much you have reduced it.
Trickster Rogue Rare primary weapons level 61+ are not only usable in the main hand.
Fix, thanks
User Interface
Inspecting a player defaults to the equipment tab again.
Does this fix the issue with long range inspect and PVP inspect? I hope so
My Replies in Green
all In all, a GREAT patch, I really love the PvP changes (most likely for the upcoming preseason) and the balance fixes. I still feel that TR piercing damage needs a tone down (and SE, still can see over 80k unmitigatable hits from this) , or the stealth reveal needs to be returned, but I am extremely happy with this.
aulduronMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,351Arc User
edited June 2015
Here's a very simple example off the top of my head.
Ranger uses Rain of Arrows.
CW then uses Oppressive Force.
Oh look, the mobs are now not only spread all over the place (The complete Opposite of control by the way), but you've actually messed up what your party is attempting to do.
Compared to say, a CW that uses Singularity or Furious Immolation to bring the mobs closer together, then the HR fires his Arrows into the pack of mobs instead of missing completely due to one CW wanting to get top DPS.
That's simply one example and one power.
How about the CW who centers the singularity away from where the HR just planted his RoA, or while another CW is pushing a shard or using OF or Sudden Storm? OF stuns mobs. That is control. The slight push is nowhere near as bad as Ice Storm, Repel, Bulls Charge, Sunburst, or whatever Paladins use. A smart CW positions himself to push them in the same, right direction. While grouping mobs is very useful, Singularity is not such a great power: It's slow to cast, and it's easy to die while casting it. Mobs don't stop attacking until they're up top. Sometimes Sing is the best power to use, but more often, OF is best.
Damage is a form of control. It's the most effective form. I've used the Frost enchant. My unplayed GF now has it. I also have a perfect terror and perfect plaguefire. My DC and GWF now use those. Why does my CW have the Perfect Vorpal? Easy. He has the highest crit, by far. It gives me the best bang for the buck. The object of the game is to kill mobs. Vorpal is the best enchant for that purpose. It also stacks with other vorpals, unlike PF or Terror.
How about the CW who centers the singularity away from where the HR just planted his RoA, or while another CW is pushing a shard or using OF or Sudden Storm? OF stuns mobs. That is control. The slight push is nowhere near as bad as Ice Storm, Repel, Bulls Charge, Sunburst, or whatever Paladins use. A smart CW positions himself to push them in the same, right direction. While grouping mobs is very useful, Singularity is not such a great power: It's slow to cast, and it's easy to die while casting it. Mobs don't stop attacking until they're up top. Sometimes Sing is the best power to use, but more often, OF is best.
Except that slight "push" being "nowhere near as bad" does exactly what i have said. It pushes the mobs and spreads them out all over the place and it ruins synergy with other players, example the HR. Compared to Grouping things together which creates synergy.
Also, that was One example. If you want me to sit here and list every dam power that ruins group synergy like Ice Storm, im not doing it. You asked the difference between a CW that controls and one that is DPS focused, there you have it.
Damage is a form of control. It's the most effective form. I've used the Frost enchant. My unplayed GF now has it. I also have a perfect terror and perfect plaguefire. My DC and GWF now use those. Why does my CW have the Perfect Vorpal? Easy. He has the highest crit, by far. It gives me the best bang for the buck. The object of the game is to kill mobs. Vorpal is the best enchant for that purpose. It also stacks with other vorpals, unlike PF or Terror.
"Damage is a form of control" - And now you know why so many people complain and whine about T2s. They're too busy trying to keep up with a GWF on the pain-giver chart instead of actually helping out the whole team by controlling the mobs so others can deal large amounts of damage and mitigate blows on their allies.
The object of the game isnt to simple "kill mobs", its to win as a team. If you want to look at things in a narrow tube of "DPS DPS DPS" then its no wonder most of the fourm and player base cant seem to adapt to mod 6, because it actually requires Thinking beyond "DPS ALL DA MOBS".
As for terror and such not stacking....if you all end up using vorpals then it wont matter anyway because No One will get the debuffs/buffs. It's called teamwork.
Seriously, if people are going to get this bent out of shape over SS, then you really should consider rolling a ACTUAL Dps class. Not a CONTROLLER class.
Mof didn't get ss doesn't mean anything genius. Master of flame get sudden storm, stormspell? They are different paragon paths. Its like asking why doesn't whisperknife get impossible to catch. Sorry its the wrong paragon.
Mof was bad all along. Should it have had a buff somewhere? sure fine but no one minded so long as we had a non gimp paragon to play.
there was a very long debate in the cw section that stated that mof is just as useful and potentially more useful than ss cw's. none of the cw's believed it because they never accounted for how much of their dps was bolstered by the mof debuffs and how they can leech smoulder from a mof.
Potentially yeah an ss picked up some of the mof damage but it was who even cares damage not Warlock TT level fun and games. Once upon a time it was even half viable but they got nothing when the damage went off the encounters. Even in its heyday though it was not exactly a beast.
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aulduronMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,351Arc User
edited June 2015
I have every class but a pally. I get upset at some of the powers some players use, but I've never, on any character, ever been upset at OF. Even when the CW stands in the middle of them all, instead of at the side, and spreads them apart. Sing has spoiled many of my powers, on several classes. Ice Storm and repel should disappear from every CWs repertoire, once they hit lvl 70.
If I was worried about the paingiver chart, I'd play my TR. Nearly every CW power has both control and damage built into it. Nearly every feat I have has both control and damage, or else survivability. Wen I run with CWs I can't tell the difference between an Oppressor and a thaum/rene, by their control.
As for terror and such not stacking....if you all end up using vorpals then it wont matter anyway because No One will get the debuffs/buffs. It's called teamwork.
So I should trade my vorpal for an enchantment that at least one other person in the group almost always has? And that's called teamwork? I took my GPF out because it was almost always wasted, because someone else has one. My DC is my debuffer. He uses the debuff enchant. At least until his crit is high enough to make vorpal more effective.
Lol. Since when is a CW not a DPS class? Which controller classes don't do tons of damage?
I don't see the purpose behind the CW SS nerf (clearly complaints from PVP players prompted it). TR's are at the very top of the PVP food chain with no equals (GF comes closest), how is it that SS gets nerfed when CW is hardly considered worthy of the middle spot on the PVP food chain? Not only this but TR and GWF DPS already far exceeds a DPS build CW's in PVE so I ask again, why was this necessary? If this is for the sake of PVP balance they need to undo this nerf and then proceed to nerf piercing damage in PVP (let it bypass 50% but not all DR)...
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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aulduronMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,351Arc User
edited June 2015
wasn't shard the only encounter nerfed when stormspell
No. Most of them were nerfed with either less damage, or longer cooldowns.
I'm pretty sure Sudden Storm is a paragon power available only to stormspell CWs.
OK, all talk about cw is a control class, but i think all never played with a cw.
90% of time the stuns(Control) dont work, when work is for 1s
You can made the best cw of control, and come pvp vs tr, you will see, your skils dont work, your control dont work.
The Chalange for all here: Make a CW and a TR with same power, critical etc etc. and go pvp. TR win easy. Make this and later talk about control of cw
Still no fix to TR rank 4 class abilities? my TR gets ZERO movement speed increase after they went to rank 4 (i dont keep getting rank 3, putting it to rank 4 made it not work at all, zero speed). why isnt this being fixed?
I'm pretty sure Sudden Storm is a paragon power available only to stormspell CWs.
never said a mof could use it. i just said mof was fine regardless. even my friend who was a fire wizard has beaten some ss wizards in dps (not me since i focused on oppressor instead)
OK, all talk about cw is a control class, but i think all never played with a cw.
90% of time the stuns(Control) dont work, when work is for 1s
You can made the best cw of control, and come pvp vs tr, you will see, your skils dont work, your control dont work.
The Chalange for all here: Make a CW and a TR with same power, critical etc etc. and go pvp. TR win easy. Make this and later talk about control of cw
i have in mod 5 and actually beat a scoundrel in control b4 they were nerfed. not that anyone would believe me even though i pointed out the fact i never died the entire match despite the fact there were obviously 1-2 rogues in these matches persistently trying to kill me (what rogue wouldn't aim for the cw 1st anyways).
not gonna bother in mod 6 with the tenacity update as well as how rare scoundrels are compared to sabs which everyone agrees is op.
I have every class but a pally. I get upset at some of the powers some players use, but I've never, on any character, ever been upset at OF. Even when the CW stands in the middle of them all, instead of at the side, and spreads them apart. Sing has spoiled many of my powers, on several classes. Ice Storm and repel should disappear from every CWs repertoire, once they hit lvl 70.
If I was worried about the paingiver chart, I'd play my TR. Nearly every CW power has both control and damage built into it. Nearly every feat I have has both control and damage, or else survivability. Wen I run with CWs I can't tell the difference between an Oppressor and a thaum/rene, by their control.
Sigh, stop making it all about you. I dont care how you play or what you do, you asked for the difference between Control CW and DPS CW, its been stated. Period.
So I should trade my vorpal for an enchantment that at least one other person in the group almost always has? And that's called teamwork? I took my GPF out because it was almost always wasted, because someone else has one. My DC is my debuffer. He uses the debuff enchant. At least until his crit is high enough to make vorpal more effective.
Lol. Since when is a CW not a DPS class? Which controller classes don't do tons of damage?
Your logic is amazingly flawed, and ironically just proves me right, again. If everyone thought the way you do "Why should i use terror someone else will already have it", then oh look, you end up with all vorpals and no buffs/debuffs JUST like i stated. hell you even want to give your DC one for crying out loud.
I repeat, if NO ONE uses an enchant, then the entire party losses out on the buff/debuff. And dont pull that "hurr hurr so you want everyone to run terror" <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> on me again.
Most controller classes dont do tons of damage.....
You know, this is reminding me of a thread about CWs just before mod 6 went live, and what i said back then it still true today. You want to be able to do EVERYTHING. You want to be able to control every mob while still doing tons of damage. Well guess what, YOU CANT.
A GWF/SW will DPS better than you, period.
Whens the last time you saw a trapper HR do more damage than a GWF? Never im going to guess unless the trapper had either really good gear or the GWF wasnt the best player in the world.
Like i said, want to play a DPS character, go roll one. A CW is not dps focused and has other benefits. Your attitude is why i keep bringing up paingiver, all people like yourself care about is "Me me me", which is why you are focused on what you can do as an individual and not the whole team and what you can accomplish together. That OF doesnt bother you? Well it pissed off your 2 teammates by messing up their aim. Now what?
MOD 6 was successful at one thing that people still dont appreciate well enough, it made teamwork matter.
Comments
Not my main but I builtan Oppressor after the entire library (almost) told me not to. Amazng how nigh-invulnerable it is. It just kills things slowly.....
cw is not like Trs all builds are good, we have 1 good build for pvp and 1 good skill for pvp.
Now nerfing this we dont have nothing good, we will be the **** class of this game.
90% of cw´s use vopal, focus on critical and use spell storm, because mage of fire its terrible, impossible for pvp.
we dont have what to make now, only see TR´S them laughing even more of us. And this already look at enclave chat geral.
All Trs happy for this change of cw
on the other hand,
Repel: This spell should no longer be able to be dodge cancelled infinitely.
To be fair, trickster rogues do trick enemies, but they also tank everything with 100% deflect and 75% deflect severity making them take less than 5% of incoming damage... so they should be called tankster rogues instead yeah?
And TRs wake up tomorrow morning to find the Transcendent vorpal they had equipped to blue offhand slot has vanished along with their blue offhand weapon, irreversibly gobbled up by the system
Sopi SW Youtube channel pvp brickabrack
Honestly some of us that play CW are laughing, pretty hard. Seriously, changing SS ruins your build so much that you lose 60%? Talk about putting all your eggs in one basket.
Also, people DO play MoF you know, so no the "whole" community definitely doesn't care. Speaking of which, since SS was "buffed due to our other powers dealing less damage", tell me, what did MoF get? *Silence*
Maybe you and everyone else complaining that you arnt top DPS dogs should learn to play a CONTROL wizard with CONTROL powers. You know, like some of us do. And yes, i do fine in T2s, thanks for asking.
besides, at least now ss wizards won't be so condescending about the usefulness of the debuffs of MoF wizards
ya, i hate dps-crazy cw's in pve. they make the runs so much more annoying than when an actual control wizard is in the group
u can get the silly icy veins feat regardless of path. it's your problem if you don't invest in it.
also, there is frost enchant but i doubt any cw seeking dps will want to sacrifice a weapon enchant for more control.
it has never been necessary to be a 100% oppressor but it does help
I'm curious to know which powers these CWs use, and why you find them annoying. I'm DPS focused, but every encounter and daily power I use has some control in it, even if it's just spreading chill. Not coincidentally, those same powers give me the best DPS.
What, exactly, is an "actual control wizard", and how are they better than the other kind of CW,, whatever kind that may be?
most wizards i run into tend to not control anything in the slightest. idk what they r doing since i am more focused on my own mobs.
kinda the main reason some runs fail which just makes me call on a cw friend to control the stuff for me since i can't keep everything dazed forever as a rogue. it's really sad to have 2 cw's in the group and a rogue out-controls both of them......
Here's a very simple example off the top of my head.
Ranger uses Rain of Arrows.
CW then uses Oppressive Force.
Oh look, the mobs are now not only spread all over the place (The complete Opposite of control by the way), but you've actually messed up what your party is attempting to do.
Compared to say, a CW that uses Singularity or Furious Immolation to bring the mobs closer together, then the HR fires his Arrows into the pack of mobs instead of missing completely due to one CW wanting to get top DPS.
That's simply one example and one power.
Now look at all the enchantments, companions, features, etc, that someone as a DPS CW will try to use to increase their own DPS instead of party buffs, or instead of favoring more control.
Example - Vorpal is used for DPS
Frost is for Control
Plaguefire is for Debuffing
So on so forth.
Even in T2's I see a lot of dps CW run ahead of everyone, engage early and first and alone and then complain later about aggro if they fall. I never tell anyone how to play as I say do it the way you enjoy it but they seem to have an uncontrollable lust to chase paingiver so hard that it often is problematic for the rest -- not to mention them.
as a melee class, i can't watch what a ranged dps is doing since they r not even on my screen. especially since i am near mobs that can 1-shot me through deflect if i am not paying attention (even if i am paying attention the tank might move around and drag me into the melee aoes....)
as for oppressive, i have to agree on it not being useful since it does push things away and can potentially make a mess immediately afterwards for the melees.
oh and mof daily does come with a feat to daze the mobs
Set your FoV back. Even melee needs to know what is going on with their party.
My Replies in Green
all In all, a GREAT patch, I really love the PvP changes (most likely for the upcoming preseason) and the balance fixes. I still feel that TR piercing damage needs a tone down (and SE, still can see over 80k unmitigatable hits from this) , or the stealth reveal needs to be returned, but I am extremely happy with this.
Drunken Goose of MidNight Express. - 3.3k Paladin , 3.6k GWF , 3.1k GF,
How about the CW who centers the singularity away from where the HR just planted his RoA, or while another CW is pushing a shard or using OF or Sudden Storm? OF stuns mobs. That is control. The slight push is nowhere near as bad as Ice Storm, Repel, Bulls Charge, Sunburst, or whatever Paladins use. A smart CW positions himself to push them in the same, right direction. While grouping mobs is very useful, Singularity is not such a great power: It's slow to cast, and it's easy to die while casting it. Mobs don't stop attacking until they're up top. Sometimes Sing is the best power to use, but more often, OF is best.
Damage is a form of control. It's the most effective form. I've used the Frost enchant. My unplayed GF now has it. I also have a perfect terror and perfect plaguefire. My DC and GWF now use those. Why does my CW have the Perfect Vorpal? Easy. He has the highest crit, by far. It gives me the best bang for the buck. The object of the game is to kill mobs. Vorpal is the best enchant for that purpose. It also stacks with other vorpals, unlike PF or Terror.
Except that slight "push" being "nowhere near as bad" does exactly what i have said. It pushes the mobs and spreads them out all over the place and it ruins synergy with other players, example the HR. Compared to Grouping things together which creates synergy.
Also, that was One example. If you want me to sit here and list every dam power that ruins group synergy like Ice Storm, im not doing it. You asked the difference between a CW that controls and one that is DPS focused, there you have it.
"Damage is a form of control" - And now you know why so many people complain and whine about T2s. They're too busy trying to keep up with a GWF on the pain-giver chart instead of actually helping out the whole team by controlling the mobs so others can deal large amounts of damage and mitigate blows on their allies.
The object of the game isnt to simple "kill mobs", its to win as a team. If you want to look at things in a narrow tube of "DPS DPS DPS" then its no wonder most of the fourm and player base cant seem to adapt to mod 6, because it actually requires Thinking beyond "DPS ALL DA MOBS".
As for terror and such not stacking....if you all end up using vorpals then it wont matter anyway because No One will get the debuffs/buffs. It's called teamwork.
Seriously, if people are going to get this bent out of shape over SS, then you really should consider rolling a ACTUAL Dps class. Not a CONTROLLER class.
Mof was bad all along. Should it have had a buff somewhere? sure fine but no one minded so long as we had a non gimp paragon to play.
Potentially yeah an ss picked up some of the mof damage but it was who even cares damage not Warlock TT level fun and games. Once upon a time it was even half viable but they got nothing when the damage went off the encounters. Even in its heyday though it was not exactly a beast.
If I was worried about the paingiver chart, I'd play my TR. Nearly every CW power has both control and damage built into it. Nearly every feat I have has both control and damage, or else survivability. Wen I run with CWs I can't tell the difference between an Oppressor and a thaum/rene, by their control.
So I should trade my vorpal for an enchantment that at least one other person in the group almost always has? And that's called teamwork? I took my GPF out because it was almost always wasted, because someone else has one. My DC is my debuffer. He uses the debuff enchant. At least until his crit is high enough to make vorpal more effective.
Lol. Since when is a CW not a DPS class? Which controller classes don't do tons of damage?
No. Most of them were nerfed with either less damage, or longer cooldowns.
I'm pretty sure Sudden Storm is a paragon power available only to stormspell CWs.
90% of time the stuns(Control) dont work, when work is for 1s
You can made the best cw of control, and come pvp vs tr, you will see, your skils dont work, your control dont work.
The Chalange for all here: Make a CW and a TR with same power, critical etc etc. and go pvp. TR win easy. Make this and later talk about control of cw
never said a mof could use it. i just said mof was fine regardless. even my friend who was a fire wizard has beaten some ss wizards in dps (not me since i focused on oppressor instead)
i have in mod 5 and actually beat a scoundrel in control b4 they were nerfed. not that anyone would believe me even though i pointed out the fact i never died the entire match despite the fact there were obviously 1-2 rogues in these matches persistently trying to kill me (what rogue wouldn't aim for the cw 1st anyways).
not gonna bother in mod 6 with the tenacity update as well as how rare scoundrels are compared to sabs which everyone agrees is op.
Sigh, stop making it all about you. I dont care how you play or what you do, you asked for the difference between Control CW and DPS CW, its been stated. Period.
Your logic is amazingly flawed, and ironically just proves me right, again. If everyone thought the way you do "Why should i use terror someone else will already have it", then oh look, you end up with all vorpals and no buffs/debuffs JUST like i stated. hell you even want to give your DC one for crying out loud.
I repeat, if NO ONE uses an enchant, then the entire party losses out on the buff/debuff. And dont pull that "hurr hurr so you want everyone to run terror" <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> on me again.
Most controller classes dont do tons of damage.....
You know, this is reminding me of a thread about CWs just before mod 6 went live, and what i said back then it still true today. You want to be able to do EVERYTHING. You want to be able to control every mob while still doing tons of damage. Well guess what, YOU CANT.
A GWF/SW will DPS better than you, period.
Whens the last time you saw a trapper HR do more damage than a GWF? Never im going to guess unless the trapper had either really good gear or the GWF wasnt the best player in the world.
Like i said, want to play a DPS character, go roll one. A CW is not dps focused and has other benefits. Your attitude is why i keep bringing up paingiver, all people like yourself care about is "Me me me", which is why you are focused on what you can do as an individual and not the whole team and what you can accomplish together. That OF doesnt bother you? Well it pissed off your 2 teammates by messing up their aim. Now what?
MOD 6 was successful at one thing that people still dont appreciate well enough, it made teamwork matter.