Since everyone seems to be misinterpreting precisely how much is working together in order for a HR to do what they can do, and inserting out of topic items such as personal attacks, here is a comprehensive overview of how this so called Permadaze works.
HRs have a paragon feat path called Trapper, which revolves around cycling through encounters quickly. This is shown most clearly by the two feats, Forestbond and Swiftness of the Fox. Forestbond causes the HRs cooldowns to be reduced by 5% whenever a grasping roots is applied, and stacks based on the number of enemies it is applied to. Swiftness of the Fox says that whenever a ranged power is used, melee cooldowns are reduced by 15% and vice-versa. Likewise this applies whenever an enemy is hit by on of the encounters.
Through this the HR is able to cycle multiple encounters in a row assuming 100% accuracy and hitting multiple enemies, or multiple times with an encounter. The exception to this is when the feat Trapper's Cunning gets mixed in. Trapper's Cunning gives the HRs critical hits a 25% chance to apply weak grasping roots. This means that if a HR crits on a strong root application each and every tick will have a chance to apply the weak roots thus dazing the target while the roots go through. At best in PvP, a HRs strong grasping roots will tick ~4 times, once per second over a 4 second duration. This means that on average each application of strong roots will apply Trapper's Cunning once without other procs coming into question.
The thing that ties all this together is the class feature Crushing Roots which causes the roots to daze to a maximum of 1 second on strong roots, and 0.5 of a second on weak roots. Thus the standard trapper rotation of Constricting, Hindering, Fox, results in with absolutely perfect timing, a 3.5 second daze per rotation. Then add in a 1.5 second daze from dazing shot, and you have a maximum of 5 seconds worth of daze per rotation, which combined with the previous cooldown reducing feats allows the HR to chain it over and over again.
And while this sounds OP as heck, it is not as powerful as it sounds due to the following reasons:
1) Roots last for up to 4 seconds on players, assuming strong roots and 0 tenacity or control resist. This means that the total daze duration per strong root is on average 1.5 seconds.
2) Trappers Cunning relies on a critical hit to trigger. Thus unless the HR in question gets very lucky with their crits or is built purely towards this, it is unlikely to trigger so often that a strong root permadazes you.
3) Hindering Shot works off of a charge system which means that at most the HR can get 4 rotations in without pausing before they have to stop. Once they stop there lies your chance to hit them back.
4) None of the HRs skills with the exception of Dazing Shot actually daze without Crushing Roots being involved. Slotting it however means that the HR loses out on one of the following Aspect of the Lone Wolf, Pathfinder's Action. Stormwarden's Action, or Aspect of the Serpent. In the first two cases, the HR loses out on a significant amount of survivability, in the third case the HR loses out on reliability in pulling off this chain of encounters, and in the last case the HR loses out on a very large amount of damage and crit chance.
5) The HR is squishy. Very very squishy. This is a problem accentuated by the many bugs which plague it, and a shockingly low base movement speed.
6) All this is made under the best conditions that a HR could have. That is to say, that the enemy has no tenacity, which they unfortunately do have a very high tendency to have. Reducing the roots or dazes duration directly impacts the ability of a HR to permadaze you as expected. Thus having them makes it much harder for the HR to control you until you die.
7) Another possible reason why you see so many people complain about how long this lasts is precisely because of just that. How long it lasts. To be more specific, this means that people found it to be less of a problem when you were simply taken down in one rotation by other classes such as the Control Wizard, or Trickster Rogue thanks to their high damage. HR however, does very little damage with each rotation, and the roots deal next to no damage due to yet another bug affecting it. As a result the HR has to slowly wear you down, forcing them to often use 20+ encounters in order to take down the target. This is likely the main reason why people are so frustrated. Because unlike the other classes who finish the fight quickly once you're caught, the HR has to do it slowly and over a long period of time.
7) The skill and luck required to get to this level of power is extremely high. I can personally attest to the fact that if my computer so much as lags in the manner that it is prone to do with the onset of mod 6, the combo will be screwed up completely to the point that it is barely recoverable. In addition, you need to time your powers perfectly, even past the point of muscle memory since the dazes are so short that you have to screw up the enemies animation period for it to work instead of just mindlessly cycling. Third of all the dazes are only strong when and if Trapper's Cunning procs heavily in your favour.
Sincerely, this whining about the Hunter Ranger crushing roots is just ridiculous. I play an Executioner MI Rogue and I can easily evade/kill two of them at the same time, even with better gear score than me. There are some of them that hit harder but in general their burst is not enough to kill me not even to get close and I am wearing just Grim Executioner PvP and a piece of Burning with lvl 7 and 5 runes and blue artifacts.
If the HR needs something is lot of fixes as at least three of their main powers are just useless right now as they are bugged in the 4th rank, the trapper build is the only viable one in PvP and is not "that good". Even cordon of arrow last like 0.2 secs and this is a tier IV power.
I guess for perma-stealth/sab rogues it will be even easier to evade/kill them, if you stack ItC you can even ignore them. I don't know how hard is to evade their daze/root rotations with other classes but I don't think they deserve a nerf at all, they should be able to kill other classes and they have their mechanics to do it.
Sincerely, this whining about the Hunter Ranger crushing roots is just ridiculous. I play an Executioner MI Rogue and I can easily evade/kill two of them at the same time, even with better gear score than me. There are some of them that hit harder but in general their burst is not enough to kill me not even to get close and I am wearing just Grim Executioner PvP and a piece of Burning with lvl 7 and 5 runes and blue artifacts.
If the HR needs something is lot of fixes as at least three of their main powers are just useless right now as they are bugged in the 4th rank, the trapper build is the only viable one in PvP and is not "that good". Even cordon of arrow last like 0.2 secs and this is a tier IV power.
I guess for perma-stealth/sab rogues it will be even easier to evade/kill them, if you stack ItC you can even ignore them. I don't know how hard is to evade their daze/root rotations with other classes but I don't think they deserve a nerf at all, they should be able to kill other classes and they have their mechanics to do it.
stack ITC.... which game are you referring to... I cant recal any stack on ITC and roots becomes a spike damage if TR uses ITC which is bad news if you know that.
So whining about a daze and a root at the same time (= which is effectively a stun), which supposedly should be only for short intervals but in reality easily chained through CD reducing traits, which often initiates from 80' range in one of the fastest launched projectile attacks in the game is ridiculous...
...and yet for some reason that didn't stop you people from whining about Scoundrel TRs until the whole function now effectively went extinct. Such lovely double standard hypocrisy.
Your chain dazes should be limited to at max maybe 3 seconds, and the daze inducing features need an ICD of 5 seconds. This is what HRs deserve, no more, no less.
stack ITC.... which game are you referring to... I cant recal any stack on ITC and roots becomes a spike damage if TR uses ITC which is bad news if you know that.
Do you know that ItC also grants TR 100% deflect chance while active?
And in this game, ONLY TR has 75% deflect severity (not GF, not OP, not GWF), which means TR only gets hit by 25% damage of the original attacks when deflecting them, and that 25% will be mitigated further by defense and tenacity stat.
That is why everyone including TRs hate MI Sabo TRs because they can rotate between stealth and ItC almost infinitely (with decent gears of course).
So whining about a daze and a root at the same time (= which is effectively a stun), which supposedly should be only for short intervals but in reality easily chained through CD reducing traits, which often initiates from 80' range in one of the fastest launched projectile attacks in the game is ridiculous...
...and yet for some reason that didn't stop you people from whining about Scoundrel TRs until the whole function now effectively went extinct. Such lovely double standard hypocrisy.
Your chain dazes should be limited to at max maybe 3 seconds, and the daze inducing features need an ICD of 5 seconds. This is what HRs deserve, no more, no less.
stack ITC.... which game are you referring to... I cant recal any stack on ITC and roots becomes a spike damage if TR uses ITC which is bad news if you know that.
If you contextualize the word stack in my post you should be able to guess that I am speaking about put it in your encounters bar obviously. And your answer is in here already.
Do you know that ItC also grants TR 100% deflect chance while active?
And in this game, ONLY TR has 75% deflect severity (not GF, not OP, not GWF), which means TR only gets hit by 25% damage of the original attacks when deflecting them, and that 25% will be mitigated further by defense and tenacity stat.
That is why everyone including TRs hate MI Sabo TRs because they can rotate between stealth and ItC almost infinitely (with decent gears of course).
And that is why I said that for Saboteurs Perma-Stealth should be even easier to evade/kill them (in more or less equal gear conditions of course).
So we have clown nr 1 Mirroballs alias Kweassa etc etc namechanges seams the norm for you and we all understand why. Talking about hypocrisy and then ask for nerf of Hrs.
This is the guy that late in module 5 told gfw and sw to l2p and dodge EXE- wounderful....
So whining about a daze and a root at the same time (= which is effectively a stun), which supposedly should be only for short intervals but in reality easily chained through CD reducing traits, which often initiates from 80' range in one of the fastest launched projectile attacks in the game is ridiculous...
...and yet for some reason that didn't stop you people from whining about Scoundrel TRs until the whole function now effectively went extinct. Such lovely double standard hypocrisy.
Your chain dazes should be limited to at max maybe 3 seconds, and the daze inducing features need an ICD of 5 seconds. This is what HRs deserve, no more, no less.
Then we have clown nr 2 k9madrush how writes things like this below, who also said Hr does very well against gwfs and i offered him 100k for each win with his HR against my mod 5 geared lvl 63 gwf and ofc not word from him since then.
wow! 12k damage is fine if your a range class what do you want to shoot at melee classes nuclear warheads with your bows? Seriously your showing your true colors your a hypocrite who pretends a class is weak dont play tricks on us we have HR and I know one complete rotation of 9 encounters excluding dailies can shave one person. Drop the act I know my HR and I quit playing melee class coz CW and HR is ubbbbberrrr OP.
Lets crunsh some numbers from reality then up with the only tool we have to get an overlook of the pvp landskape the leaderboard.
lvl 60-69 bracket sorted under kills as the normal pages are totally haywire.
Kills total first 5 Trs 10392 deaths total 965 KD ratio 10,76 !!!!!!!!
Kills total first 5 Hrs 6195 dearhs total 2776 KD ratio 2.23.
Just some pure fact collected ingame easy enough for all to see but hey Hr need a nerf according to these 2 genius Trs who is not bias at all but purly objective in game status caring about the overall game play more then their own class....... dont you take their word for it ???
Do you know that ItC also grants TR 100% deflect chance while active?
And in this game, ONLY TR has 75% deflect severity (not GF, not OP, not GWF), which means TR only gets hit by 25% damage of the original attacks when deflecting them, and that 25% will be mitigated further by defense and tenacity stat.
That is why everyone including TRs hate MI Sabo TRs because they can rotate between stealth and ItC almost infinitely (with decent gears of course).
evrybody knows that so its not worth mentioning only dumb people do. Oh wow! so that is what stack means! amazing! but isnt that chain and not stack? coz stack is multiple effect that goes on top of each other thats what I know. But wow! brilliant! so stack and chain ITC is just the same! Now I know :rolleyes:
Let's not compare HRs and TRs, TR are so far ahead of every other class, that it's pointless to even discuss it.
I absolutely HATE the fact that Crushing Roots is a must have feature, slot it or gtfo. But I also hate that it takes more then 4 full rotations + disruptive shot and careful attack to kill someone. I'm not implying that HR is OP or UP, HR is plain broken because of one single class feature and a couple of crucial bugs.
M6 almost drains your soul given how boring it is. (c) joocycuzzzzzz
evrybody knows that so its not worth mentioning only dumb people do. Oh wow! so that is what stack means! amazing! but isnt that chain and not stack? coz stack is multiple effect that goes on top of each other thats what I know. But wow! brilliant! so stack and chain ITC is just the same! Now I know :rolleyes:
Sorry, but I never said anything about stacking. What I said is about the last part of your statement, which is somehow you forgot it.
stack ITC.... which game are you referring to... I cant recal any stack on ITC and roots becomes a spike damage if TR uses ITC which is bad news if you know that.
ItC negates that spike damage because it simply deflects 75% of its damage and the 25% left will be mitigated by defense and tenacity stat(if TR have any).
evrybody knows that so its not worth mentioning only dumb people do. Oh wow! so that is what stack means! amazing! but isnt that chain and not stack? coz stack is multiple effect that goes on top of each other thats what I know. But wow! brilliant! so stack and chain ITC is just the same! Now I know :rolleyes:
why wont you 1v1 the lower geared gwf? scared? cause it sure looks like it you know your *** will be handed to you.
hahah u mad bro? because i completely destroyed everything you said?because your so stupid you didnt realize 3+3=6?btw ill quote you anytime i feel like it like right now
ur on a new level of mental r3ratdation.
in no way in his post he said HR's had 9 encounters, you either quoted the wrong person or you're beyond moronic.
in no way in his post he said HR's had 9 encounters, you either quoted the wrong person or you're beyond moronic.
you seriously need psychiatric help. seek it.
regards
eh i quited the wrong thing. but i know he said it. looks like he edited it out. anyways i think your the one who needs help. you seem awefuly worried about my health. you keep talking about it in every single comment you make.stop being so obsessed with me.
btw here my "joke of a char" sorry i dont pay my life savings into this game some people want a house to live in.http://i.imgur.com/EiQlG04.png i have rank 7's and 8's and id say thats pretty **** good for me.
eh i quited the wrong thing. but i know he said it. looks like he edited it out. anyways i think your the one who needs help. you seem awefuly worried about my health. you keep talking about it in every single comment you make.stop being so obsessed with me.
btw here my "joke of a char" sorry i dont pay my life savings into this game some people want a house to live in.http://i.imgur.com/EiQlG04.png i have rank 7's and 8's and id say thats pretty **** good for me.
I didn't say anything like that nor edited anything you schizophrenic child.
Next time pay attention who you quote.
Beta player
One of the many Control Wizards that misses Shard Of The Endless Avalanche. RIP Shard (Beta-Mod3)
I didn't say anything like that you schizophrenic child.
Next time pay attention who you quote.
im not schizophrenic nerd rage. btw thats your new nickname. im bipolar huge difference. pm me ill let you come to my house so i can kick your *** personally.ok ccccuuzzz? ****ing ******ed name btw.
HR have perma root+daze+6 encounters.....ohh wait 9 encounter with Swiftness of the Fox feat in trapper tree
and that 3 charge hindering shot? spam it with disruptive shot and HR does not need to worry coz fox cunning cunning/shift
and Marauder's rush/escape will provide back to back invulnerability. Ohh wait HR tab got no ICD so he can spam it hustle free.
Range class in this game have unreasonable advantage over melee class for having so many cc.... that will put another cc on top of it press tab use all 3 encounters and there you go spam the previous 3 again use a cheap encounter to daze and you dont have to worry coz you still have dodges and a long range escape encounter..... easy hustle free class just kill from a distance spam cc and annoy.
dude 9 encounters? really? hrs do not have 9 encounters only an idiot who cant count would think so.
"actually, everything that can beat me is OP and needs to be nerfed because bla bla bla, also, you can't have a conflicting opinion cuz u are a nobody and i am one of the best in-game and i am part of a known guild. u still wanna talk? fight me ingame bla bla bla"
Now its CWs and HRs having a debate this looks fun blackwolf versus joocycuzzzzzz let the forums begin! now lets see who among this two class will prove whos the most broken.
This is HR vs everybody else, and the way they try to defend their own broken chain-CCing, while those vocal champions themselves once having been the biggest anti-TR whiners arguing for nerf to our own TR chain-CCing, is what makes them so sick and disgusting.
Truthfully speaking, I'll bet they never expected that the devs were going to remove it from us TRs, and then essentially give it to their class with an easier, more effective version. But too bad, the devs did it, so now, they just say two different, hypocrite things from the same mouth. Turn from face to heel on a snap, and then defend it so dearly.
No principle. No integrity. Just greed all over. Typical of whiners.
Brilliant, Holmes. Now tell me how many of them were Scoundrels, or how this completely worthless piece of trash you posted is relevant in anyway with the current issue at hand which you're so desperately trying to veer off and shut out from open discussion.
You abandoning your own jackshi* of a principle now? The same craparse of a stance you took along with idiot agitators like Lucan when you so solemnly attacked and criticized how chain CCing is a problem and it is not balanced? Like the time you spent over 30 minutes sending hate PMs to me after I whooped your <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>, cussing and crying that chainc CC TRs are broken and anyone using them should be [censored]? Don't try to deny this jackshi*. I still have the screenshots. The only thing stopping me from exposing what a truly little spoiled brat you are is that the moderators don't approve of worsening feuds by exposing snotty spoiled brats on open forums. (Although your sick, pathetic behavior has made it awfully tempting, I'll admit).
For the gazillionth time, starting from way back in mod5 5 months ago, I told you I couldn't care jackshi* about what other TR builds are doing. THIS IS A CHAIN CC ISSUE.. Stop trying to wriggle out of this topic by posting useless irrelevant information to cloud the issue.
Your friggin' broken class is:
■ chain-CCing more often, in shorter disruptive intervals in between each other, than us Scoundrel TRs could
■ starting the chainc-CCing rotation from 5 times longer distance, than us Scoundrel TRs could
■ effectively dealing worse form of CCs (daze+root = stun), than compared to what us Scoundrels used to deal
■ and dealing much higher average damage than what us Scoundrels can currently deal
You don't know of this? Understandable. Since every Scoundrel now went frickin' extinct after the changes.
So tell me, why should your kind be exempt from the same line of nerfs, exempt from being stopped of chain CCing people, when effectively what your kind is doing is many times worse than we ever could? Why should your broken <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> of chain dazing not be issued the same internal CD restrictions us Scoundrels have?
because our class is plagued with more bugs than you can count on both hands.fix the bugs then nerf us. dont nerf us then not fix the bugs.
0
landoras1975Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 88Arc User
Brilliant, Holmes. Now tell me how many of them were Scoundrels, or how this completely worthless piece of trash you posted is relevant in anyway with the current issue at hand which you're so desperately trying to veer off and shut out from open discussion.
Tr rule pvp withe broken **** like piercing, 100%crit , itc dubble procs whish makes there KD ratio redicules high compared to any other class including the second most op class Cw.
Your history speaks for itself your been laughed at for several expansions and even many among your own class think your an
embarrassment and the rest see you as a clown(exeption is your equally stupid and ignorant fellow Tr mjytresz).
You abandoning your own jackshi* of a principle now? The same craparse of a stance you took along with idiot agitators like Lucan when you so solemnly attacked and criticized how chain CCing is a problem and it is not balanced? Like the time you spent over 30 minutes sending hate PMs to me after I whooped your <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>, cussing and crying that chainc CC TRs are broken and anyone using them should be [censored]? Don't try to deny this jackshi*. I still have the screenshots. The only thing stopping me from exposing what a truly little spoiled brat you are is that the moderators don't approve of worsening feuds by exposing snotty spoiled brats on open forums. (Although your sick, pathetic behavior has made it awfully tempting, I'll admit).
Nobody gives a **** about what you think it is clear that your are clueless and only writing to see your own name written in some forum.
Your butthurt becaue I kicked your butt all over with actual facts when you try to defend the Tr class and now jump at some bandwagon trying to make Hr something OP broken when Tr in fact still are 10 times more broken.
And that is why number of how common a class is and kd ratio matters its facts and not fiction.
Write what you want as nobody takes you seriously any more - Name change 3 times at least - time for another forum clown.
This is HR vs everybody else, and the way they try to defend their own broken chain-CCing, while those vocal champions themselves once having been the biggest anti-TR whiners arguing for nerf to our own TR chain-CCing, is what makes them so sick and disgusting.
Truthfully speaking, I'll bet they never expected that the devs were going to remove it from us TRs, and then essentially give it to their class with an easier, more effective version. But too bad, the devs did it, so now, they just say two different, hypocrite things from the same mouth. Turn from face to heel on a snap, and then defend it so dearly.
No principle. No integrity. Just greed all over. Typical of whiners.
If you've read the posts, the vast majority of HRs are more than happy to have crushing roots removed, or reworked in return for compensation in other areas such as damage and/or improved dodges, as well as bug fixes.
Nobody's denying that there's something wrong with chain cc. In fact that's what most people on this topic are talking about. That is to say, how this could be fixed. Blackwolf in particular is advocating for the removal of Crushing Roots in favour of a mass fixing of bugs, and improvements in some of the aspects of HR. Likewise, most HRs actually agree with him, because we understand how frustrating it is to have to chain cc someone for 20+ encounters as opposed to a CWs 5 power freeze kill combo.
Now as to the actual points you posted. First of all, multiple short dazes is nowhere near as bad as an extremely long continuous stun. The main reason being that in the first case, you are capable of responding via the activation of something such as a GFs Shield, Impossible to Catch, Repel, OPs Sancturary, GWFs Unstoppable, etc... However in the event of a long daze, lasting, easily in excess of 6 seconds just via the capstone, you can't respond even with a short animation attack making it much more severe of an affect.
Second of all, about the chain cc-ing from 5 times the range of a TR. In the optimal case, a HR can initiate a constricting shot from 92 feet away. The Scoundrel TR has access to Shadow Strike as do all TRs. This has a 40 feet range. 92/40 = 2.3. Therefore the HR in the best case, running a suboptimal class feature, and a low damage encounter can initiate chain cc from 2.3 times the distance of a TR using a low damage encounter. If you're a whisperknife the range would be increased to 60 feet via Vengance's Pursuit, which means that the ratio would be even less.
Third of all, nobody is disputing the fact that a root + a daze is extremely powerful. Everyone realises that a modified version of the CWs freeze is pretty devastating in terms of crowd control. So yes, even HRs realise how bad this is, and guess what? Most of us have no qualms about crushing roots being made to not daze constantly and interrupt the enemies long casting times.
Fourth of all, the claim that a HR can output more damage than a scoundrel TR. Suffice it to say that so long as a HRs roots are not affected by armour penetration, a Trapper HR will do less damage then a wet noodle, that is to say slightly more than an OP without Divine Judgement does.
If you've read the posts, the vast majority of HRs are more than happy to have crushing roots removed, or reworked in return for compensation in other areas such as damage and/or improved dodges, as well as bug fixes.
I don't think he would care about balancing or fixing HR. too much whiners about 'OP broken HRs'. No matter how much devs break the class ( stated so many times about Control strength not working right), reduce it damage( roots give 0), make majority of encounters useless or how 80% of rank 4 power giving negative(nerfing) HR. Fix HR. Fix other classes. Balance then.
There still will be people that will cry when they got killed by geared to control HR (one of few still left in game) - mine has 1.5 control strength atm. Cause why? 0 tenancy. 0 skill understanding. too much used to be - I can one shot everything/ control everything.
If you've read the posts, the vast majority of HRs are more than happy to have crushing roots removed, or reworked in return for compensation in other areas such as damage and/or improved dodges, as well as bug fixes.
Nobody's denying that there's something wrong with chain cc. In fact that's what most people on this topic are talking about. That is to say, how this could be fixed. Blackwolf in particular is advocating for the removal of Crushing Roots in favour of a mass fixing of bugs, and improvements in some of the aspects of HR. Likewise, most HRs actually agree with him, because we understand how frustrating it is to have to chain cc someone for 20+ encounters as opposed to a CWs 5 power freeze kill combo.
Now as to the actual points you posted. First of all, multiple short dazes is nowhere near as bad as an extremely long continuous stun. The main reason being that in the first case, you are capable of responding via the activation of something such as a GFs Shield, Impossible to Catch, Repel, OPs Sancturary, GWFs Unstoppable, etc... However in the event of a long daze, lasting, easily in excess of 6 seconds just via the capstone, you can't respond even with a short animation attack making it much more severe of an affect.
Second of all, about the chain cc-ing from 5 times the range of a TR. In the optimal case, a HR can initiate a constricting shot from 92 feet away. The Scoundrel TR has access to Shadow Strike as do all TRs. This has a 40 feet range. 92/40 = 2.3. Therefore the HR in the best case, running a suboptimal class feature, and a low damage encounter can initiate chain cc from 2.3 times the distance of a TR using a low damage encounter. If you're a whisperknife the range would be increased to 60 feet via Vengance's Pursuit, which means that the ratio would be even less.
Third of all, nobody is disputing the fact that a root + a daze is extremely powerful. Everyone realises that a modified version of the CWs freeze is pretty devastating in terms of crowd control. So yes, even HRs realise how bad this is, and guess what? Most of us have no qualms about crushing roots being made to not daze constantly and interrupt the enemies long casting times.
Fourth of all, the claim that a HR can output more damage than a scoundrel TR. Suffice it to say that so long as a HRs roots are not affected by armour penetration, a Trapper HR will do less damage then a wet noodle, that is to say slightly more than an OP without Divine Judgement does.
please add me in game ive seen many of your posts and youve won my respect. wolf4@blackxxwolf3
You wrong, the ambush encounter have 3 charges too, that makes 12 encounter and wait, the melee feat makes your at will became encounters so you have 16 encounter, all of them on a chain deals half of damage of desintegrate! we need to nerf all the 16 encounters. Sure range players have such a advantage, so a big advantage that melee classes can jump on your face and make range so usefull!!
I don't think he would care about balancing or fixing HR. too much whiners about 'OP broken HRs'. No matter how much devs break the class ( stated so many times about Control strength not working right), reduce it damage( roots give 0), make majority of encounters useless or how 80% of rank 4 power giving negative(nerfing) HR. Fix HR. Fix other classes. Balance then.
There still will be people that will cry when they got killed by geared to control HR (one of few still left in game) - mine has 1.5 control strength atm. Cause why? 0 tenancy. 0 skill understanding. too much used to be - I can one shot everything/ control everything.
Everything you have mentioned, applies exact same to the Scoundrel TR in mod5. The end result was still a nerf. So should the same be to the trapper. Simple as that.
Everything you have mentioned, applies exact same to the Scoundrel TR in mod5. The end result was still a nerf. So should the same be to the trapper. Simple as that.
Wouldn't they have to make the trapper worse at daze/rooting than the other tree's in order to be the same as the Scoundrel? I did not play the scoundrel much after the nerf so I could be wrong as before it was too easy for the capstone to apply over the other dazes and override and shorten them so I wonder if that got changed any.
Wouldn't they have to make the trapper worse at daze/rooting than the other tree's in order to be the same as the Scoundrel? I did not play the scoundrel much after the nerf so I could be wrong as before it was too easy for the capstone to apply over the other dazes and override and shorten them so I wonder if that got changed any.
yup with only one viable tree if it gets nerfed with no bug fixes you can say bye bye to hr at least trs had 2 viable trees.
Comments
Best post so far.
I want you to be my sensei
If the HR needs something is lot of fixes as at least three of their main powers are just useless right now as they are bugged in the 4th rank, the trapper build is the only viable one in PvP and is not "that good". Even cordon of arrow last like 0.2 secs and this is a tier IV power.
I guess for perma-stealth/sab rogues it will be even easier to evade/kill them, if you stack ItC you can even ignore them. I don't know how hard is to evade their daze/root rotations with other classes but I don't think they deserve a nerf at all, they should be able to kill other classes and they have their mechanics to do it.
stack ITC.... which game are you referring to... I cant recal any stack on ITC and roots becomes a spike damage if TR uses ITC which is bad news if you know that.
...and yet for some reason that didn't stop you people from whining about Scoundrel TRs until the whole function now effectively went extinct. Such lovely double standard hypocrisy.
Your chain dazes should be limited to at max maybe 3 seconds, and the daze inducing features need an ICD of 5 seconds. This is what HRs deserve, no more, no less.
Do you know that ItC also grants TR 100% deflect chance while active?
And in this game, ONLY TR has 75% deflect severity (not GF, not OP, not GWF), which means TR only gets hit by 25% damage of the original attacks when deflecting them, and that 25% will be mitigated further by defense and tenacity stat.
That is why everyone including TRs hate MI Sabo TRs because they can rotate between stealth and ItC almost infinitely (with decent gears of course).
don't feed the troll
If you contextualize the word stack in my post you should be able to guess that I am speaking about put it in your encounters bar obviously. And your answer is in here already.
And that is why I said that for Saboteurs Perma-Stealth should be even easier to evade/kill them (in more or less equal gear conditions of course).
This is the guy that late in module 5 told gfw and sw to l2p and dodge EXE- wounderful....
Then we have clown nr 2 k9madrush how writes things like this below, who also said Hr does very well against gwfs and i offered him 100k for each win with his HR against my mod 5 geared lvl 63 gwf and ofc not word from him since then.
Lets crunsh some numbers from reality then up with the only tool we have to get an overlook of the pvp landskape the leaderboard.
lvl 60-69 bracket sorted under kills as the normal pages are totally haywire.
First 5 pages 31-Trs 5- Hrs
Kills and deaths for first 5 of each class
1 Tr 1840 - 497 .................................1 Hr 885 - 320
2 Tr 1485 - 152......................................2 Hr 737 - 233
3 Tr 1344 - 132......................................3 Hr 632 - 411
4 Tr 1312 - 126......................................4 Hr 547 - 332
5 Tr 1229 - 549......................................5 Hr 497 - 210
Kills total Tr 7210 death total 1456 KD ratio 5.02 Kills total Hr 3295 death total 1506 KD ratio 2.18
Now lets take a look at lvl 70 bracket and see if things even out as these to gentlemen(clowns) claimes Hr is OP and need a nerft.
Lvl 70 first 5 pages sorted under kills as for same reason as above numbers of Trs 25 and Hrs 10.
Kills and death for first 5 Tr and Hrs lvl 70.
1 Tr 2863 - 99..................................1 Hr 1413 - 655
2 Tr 2189 - 435....................................2 Hr 1314 - 567
3 Tr 2128 - 223....................................3 Hr 1160 - 501
4 Tr 1629 - 648....................................4 Hr 1159 - 428
5 Tr 1583 - 317....................................5 Hr 1149 - 625
Kills total first 5 Trs 10392 deaths total 965 KD ratio 10,76 !!!!!!!!
Kills total first 5 Hrs 6195 dearhs total 2776 KD ratio 2.23.
Just some pure fact collected ingame easy enough for all to see but hey Hr need a nerf according to these 2 genius Trs who is not bias at all but purly objective in game status caring about the overall game play more then their own class....... dont you take their word for it ???
evrybody knows that so its not worth mentioning only dumb people do. Oh wow! so that is what stack means! amazing! but isnt that chain and not stack? coz stack is multiple effect that goes on top of each other thats what I know. But wow! brilliant! so stack and chain ITC is just the same! Now I know :rolleyes:
Let's not compare HRs and TRs, TR are so far ahead of every other class, that it's pointless to even discuss it.
I absolutely HATE the fact that Crushing Roots is a must have feature, slot it or gtfo. But I also hate that it takes more then 4 full rotations + disruptive shot and careful attack to kill someone. I'm not implying that HR is OP or UP, HR is plain broken because of one single class feature and a couple of crucial bugs.
Sorry, but I never said anything about stacking. What I said is about the last part of your statement, which is somehow you forgot it.
ItC negates that spike damage because it simply deflects 75% of its damage and the 25% left will be mitigated by defense and tenacity stat(if TR have any).
ur on a new level of mental r3ratdation.
in no way in his post he said HR's had 9 encounters, you either quoted the wrong person or you're beyond moronic.
you seriously need psychiatric help. seek it.
regards
eh i quited the wrong thing. but i know he said it. looks like he edited it out. anyways i think your the one who needs help. you seem awefuly worried about my health. you keep talking about it in every single comment you make.stop being so obsessed with me.
btw here my "joke of a char" sorry i dont pay my life savings into this game some people want a house to live in.http://i.imgur.com/EiQlG04.png i have rank 7's and 8's and id say thats pretty **** good for me.
I didn't say anything like that nor edited anything you schizophrenic child.
Next time pay attention who you quote.
One of the many Control Wizards that misses Shard Of The Endless Avalanche. RIP Shard (Beta-Mod3)
im not schizophrenic nerd rage. btw thats your new nickname. im bipolar huge difference. pm me ill let you come to my house so i can kick your *** personally.ok ccccuuzzz? ****ing ******ed name btw.
dude 9 encounters? really? hrs do not have 9 encounters only an idiot who cant count would think so.
*looks at someone in this thread*
inb4 fight me, come at me brahhh
This is HR vs everybody else, and the way they try to defend their own broken chain-CCing, while those vocal champions themselves once having been the biggest anti-TR whiners arguing for nerf to our own TR chain-CCing, is what makes them so sick and disgusting.
Truthfully speaking, I'll bet they never expected that the devs were going to remove it from us TRs, and then essentially give it to their class with an easier, more effective version. But too bad, the devs did it, so now, they just say two different, hypocrite things from the same mouth. Turn from face to heel on a snap, and then defend it so dearly.
No principle. No integrity. Just greed all over. Typical of whiners.
Yep, most annoying skill right now, please fix.
Tr rule pvp withe broken **** like piercing, 100%crit , itc dubble procs whish makes there KD ratio redicules high compared to any other class including the second most op class Cw.
Your history speaks for itself your been laughed at for several expansions and even many among your own class think your an
embarrassment and the rest see you as a clown(exeption is your equally stupid and ignorant fellow Tr mjytresz).
Nobody gives a **** about what you think it is clear that your are clueless and only writing to see your own name written in some forum.
Your butthurt becaue I kicked your butt all over with actual facts when you try to defend the Tr class and now jump at some bandwagon trying to make Hr something OP broken when Tr in fact still are 10 times more broken.
And that is why number of how common a class is and kd ratio matters its facts and not fiction.
Write what you want as nobody takes you seriously any more - Name change 3 times at least - time for another forum clown.
If you've read the posts, the vast majority of HRs are more than happy to have crushing roots removed, or reworked in return for compensation in other areas such as damage and/or improved dodges, as well as bug fixes.
Nobody's denying that there's something wrong with chain cc. In fact that's what most people on this topic are talking about. That is to say, how this could be fixed. Blackwolf in particular is advocating for the removal of Crushing Roots in favour of a mass fixing of bugs, and improvements in some of the aspects of HR. Likewise, most HRs actually agree with him, because we understand how frustrating it is to have to chain cc someone for 20+ encounters as opposed to a CWs 5 power freeze kill combo.
Now as to the actual points you posted. First of all, multiple short dazes is nowhere near as bad as an extremely long continuous stun. The main reason being that in the first case, you are capable of responding via the activation of something such as a GFs Shield, Impossible to Catch, Repel, OPs Sancturary, GWFs Unstoppable, etc... However in the event of a long daze, lasting, easily in excess of 6 seconds just via the capstone, you can't respond even with a short animation attack making it much more severe of an affect.
Second of all, about the chain cc-ing from 5 times the range of a TR. In the optimal case, a HR can initiate a constricting shot from 92 feet away. The Scoundrel TR has access to Shadow Strike as do all TRs. This has a 40 feet range. 92/40 = 2.3. Therefore the HR in the best case, running a suboptimal class feature, and a low damage encounter can initiate chain cc from 2.3 times the distance of a TR using a low damage encounter. If you're a whisperknife the range would be increased to 60 feet via Vengance's Pursuit, which means that the ratio would be even less.
Third of all, nobody is disputing the fact that a root + a daze is extremely powerful. Everyone realises that a modified version of the CWs freeze is pretty devastating in terms of crowd control. So yes, even HRs realise how bad this is, and guess what? Most of us have no qualms about crushing roots being made to not daze constantly and interrupt the enemies long casting times.
Fourth of all, the claim that a HR can output more damage than a scoundrel TR. Suffice it to say that so long as a HRs roots are not affected by armour penetration, a Trapper HR will do less damage then a wet noodle, that is to say slightly more than an OP without Divine Judgement does.
Complete:
- The Monk - http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?865991-The-Monk-A-Relatively-Detailed-Proposal-for-a-New-Class
Under Work:
- The Primal Totemist
- The Wild Sorcerer
- The Summoning Binder
I don't think he would care about balancing or fixing HR. too much whiners about 'OP broken HRs'. No matter how much devs break the class ( stated so many times about Control strength not working right), reduce it damage( roots give 0), make majority of encounters useless or how 80% of rank 4 power giving negative(nerfing) HR. Fix HR. Fix other classes. Balance then.
There still will be people that will cry when they got killed by geared to control HR (one of few still left in game) - mine has 1.5 control strength atm. Cause why? 0 tenancy. 0 skill understanding. too much used to be - I can one shot everything/ control everything.
Everything you have mentioned, applies exact same to the Scoundrel TR in mod5. The end result was still a nerf. So should the same be to the trapper. Simple as that.
Wouldn't they have to make the trapper worse at daze/rooting than the other tree's in order to be the same as the Scoundrel? I did not play the scoundrel much after the nerf so I could be wrong as before it was too easy for the capstone to apply over the other dazes and override and shorten them so I wonder if that got changed any.