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ICD on Crushing Roots

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  • blackxxwolf3blackxxwolf3 Member Posts: 1,539 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    k9madrush wrote: »
    HR damage is fine no need for buffs actually its damage should be reduce and root should never get arpen. Its like double buff if its going to happen so for balance sake HR remains as it is no buff to damage no buff to roots make its a 1 sec root duration why? HR got multiple encounters that applies roots and it has long range and 9 encounters. Nuf said no more buff for HR it has excessive tools already learn to play gear up your toon and dont play hypocrite coz I know what HR have now.
    wow so 12k of damage is "fine"? complete bull <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> spewing from your mouth.you dont even play hr do you? even if you say you do i wont believe you. you dont play the class you know nothing about it.
  • k9madrushk9madrush Member Posts: 534 Bounty Hunter
    edited May 2015
    wow so 12k of damage is "fine"? complete bull <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> spewing from your mouth.you dont even play hr do you? even if you say you do i wont believe you. you dont play the class you know nothing about it.

    wow! 12k damage is fine if your a range class what do you want to shoot at melee classes nuclear warheads with your bows? Seriously your showing your true colors your a hypocrite who pretends a class is weak dont play tricks on us we have HR and I know one complete rotation of 9 encounters excluding dailies can shave one person. Drop the act I know my HR and I quit playing melee class coz CW and HR is ubbbbberrrr OP.
  • blackxxwolf3blackxxwolf3 Member Posts: 1,539 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    k9madrush wrote: »
    wow! 12k damage is fine if your a range class what do you want to shoot at melee classes nuclear warheads with your bows? Seriously your showing your true colors your a hypocrite who pretends a class is weak dont play tricks on us we have HR and I know one complete rotation of 9 encounters excluding dailies can shave one person. Drop the act I know my HR and I quit playing melee class coz CW and HR is ubbbbberrrr OP.
    well we arent entirely ranged. we are half ranged half melee learn the class before you cry for nerfs.
  • k9madrushk9madrush Member Posts: 534 Bounty Hunter
    edited May 2015
    well we arent entirely ranged. we are half ranged half melee learn the class before you cry for nerfs.

    You said that not me and I did not said I want nerf I said HR is ok you dont need steroids. Roots can crit I know my HR you hypocrite if you want roids inject it to yourself I dont want some for my HR mine is doing fine.
  • blackxxwolf3blackxxwolf3 Member Posts: 1,539 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    k9madrush wrote: »
    You said that not me and I did not said I want nerf I said HR is ok you dont need steroids. Roots can crit I know my HR you hypocrite if you want roids inject it to yourself I dont want some for my HR mine is doing fine.
    i jsut want my bugs fixed. i also want crushing root to be either gone or nerfed with an icd. im far from a hypocrite. i want balance. i already cant get into dungeons with a geared hr because the class sucks. i dont need more reasons not to do anything.
  • k9madrushk9madrush Member Posts: 534 Bounty Hunter
    edited May 2015
    i jsut want my bugs fixed. i also want crushing root to be either gone or nerfed with an icd. im far from a hypocrite. i want balance. i already cant get into dungeons with a geared hr because the class sucks. i dont need more reasons not to do anything.

    ohh youw ant bug fix? but you want arpen, bonus damage and crits on roots? wow! not gonna happen! wow!
  • blackxxwolf3blackxxwolf3 Member Posts: 1,539 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    k9madrush wrote: »
    ohh youw ant bug fix? but you want arpen, bonus damage and crits on roots? wow! not gonna happen! wow!

    dont you love how we both know the devs will fix this bug. hrs were fine before mod 6 before these bugs. since you have no real comment to make ill start ignoring you know. youve resorted to insults and sarcasm and im not immature enough to continue a conversation with you.
  • k9madrushk9madrush Member Posts: 534 Bounty Hunter
    edited May 2015
    dont you love how we both know the devs will fix this bug. hrs were fine before mod 6 before these bugs. since you have no real comment to make ill start ignoring you know. youve resorted to insults and sarcasm and im not immature enough to continue a conversation with you.

    Since when? you want old OP HR back? not gonna happen.
  • jonkocajonkoca Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 2,586 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    Every class has CC. The HR daze CC aspects which are atm. making everybody cry are a consequence of the current bugs.

    ie. our defence is bugged, ergo, we cannot facetank at all, solution: don't allow anyone to hit us by constantly dazing them.

    ie. our offence is bugged, arpen does not apply itself to our roots, ergo our damage is low, solution: implement long chains of smaller hits by, you guessed it, constantly dazing your opponent.

    The other classes should support us, rather than shortsightedly call for the nerf hammer. Why..? A fully functioning HR in your party in pve brings 2 vital benefits. One, a boss oneshot attack get out of jail free card with the party foxes dodge buff, and two, enough control to gather and lock down/daze whole groups of mobs pretty much untill they all die, without them ever getting an attack off.
    No idea what my toon is now.
  • edited May 2015
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  • kaedennnkaedennn Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 361 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    k9madrush wrote: »
    Since when? you want old OP HR back? not gonna happen.

    can you do us a favour and stop throwing your stupid comments here and there in the forum ?
    you have no clue , you are just polluting the forum .


    MODs please Watch this kind of people .
  • blackxxwolf3blackxxwolf3 Member Posts: 1,539 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    kaedennn wrote: »
    can you do us a favour and stop throwing your stupid comments here and there in the forum ?
    you have no clue , you are just polluting the forum .


    MODs please Watch this kind of people .

    since its everyone against you im pretty sure your the one with a problem and who needs to be watched. your the one insulting everyone and your the one acting like a idiot when you dont have a reasonable arguement. mods this post is no longer productive please remove it.
  • jonkocajonkoca Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 2,586 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    clonkyo1 wrote: »
    Problem is, we are not talking about PvE, but PvP .

    So am I, fix the bugs that force HRs into dazespam mode, and you'll have less dazespam pvp HRs, like myself for example.

    As it is, takes me 2 or 3 whole rotations to kill you, even when you cannot fight back or defend yourself... pathetic isn't it. Believe me, I'm just as unhappy about the mod6 bugs as you are. Given a choice between a chance of a quick clean kill, and 30 seconds of spamming, I'd take the former, and so would most good pvp HRs.

    Of course, if you just want to break the HR class for pvp, and give yourselves an easy time of it, well, by all means continue.
    No idea what my toon is now.
  • erpuma91erpuma91 Member Posts: 21 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    Alot of ppls in this forum seems dont understand or wont understand a couple of easy things, HR have half of his skills bugged, and not for good but for worst.
    We ask for armp not because we want to be op, but because right now not work on hr, and that s why we need 4 5 full rotation to try to kill some1. We ask to fix lone wolf, not because we want to be op, but because right now if we put the 4th point it give us less stat.

    u should stop to be so hypocrites, if there are class to nerf to death are Cw, that tank like a real tank, have crazy damage and crazy control,Gf that not only have senseless tanky, but kill u whit just two skill.
    The current Cw gf, are like the old Mod 5 Tr, and when i read perma daze of hr it s the same of Mod 5 Tr i dont understand if u are serius or just something it s wrong whit u. Old Tr daze whit 3 4 hits killed evry body, and once again we need 4 5 rotation to TRY to kill some1.
    So if u have to post something about class u dont know, u dont play, but only coz kill u(and if u get killed by and HR now like now u are rly laughable) dont waste ur time here, but improve ur skills in the game.
    regards.
  • kaedennnkaedennn Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 361 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    since its everyone against you im pretty sure your the one with a problem and who needs to be watched. your the one insulting everyone and your the one acting like a idiot when you dont have a reasonable arguement. mods this post is no longer productive please remove it.

    LOl what game are you playing because FYI we are playing chess here . it's not ping pong .
    arguments ? Lol please don't make me talk !!!

    see you in game , im done here !

    PS : i've read your posts and i don't think you are working as intended LOL .
  • rayrdanrayrdan Member Posts: 5,410 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    Kaedennn is a nice person honestly
  • edited May 2015
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  • erpuma91erpuma91 Member Posts: 21 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    1vs1 in a 5vs5 pvp it s very very rare to do, so it s almost impossible for us to perma daze some1 and kill him w/o get double team.( we need around 30 second to kill some1...)
    And dont forget mate that wich u call perma daze no work vs gf, no vs gfw when become 'big' and if u give us a couple of hit we are dead.
    We are just asking that some1 fix ours bugged skills feat ecc, now like now we are doing 30% damage less than normal all because about all this bug.Than when they will fix and make normal our damage, and all other staff, they can make even a cooldown longer for some skill.
    But i cant agree whit ppls who say, hr it s op, we are on the same level of warlock, maybe worst.No damage, no defense, useless shift, and we have to face broken class like CW,GF. and strong class like tr and gwf. So try to be honest, and before write something about class u dont use ask some1 who use it.
    regards.
  • k9madrushk9madrush Member Posts: 534 Bounty Hunter
    edited May 2015
    rayrdan wrote: »
    Kaedennn is a nice person honestly

    i dont think so she called someone fool on the other thread and its his fellow HR
  • gweddrygweddry Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 278 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    Saying that HR is uber OP is outright stupid. As a reference, go watch some high level pvps, there are a few prople that upload pvp matches on YouTube. And yes, there are people among those who are willing to abuse bugs etc. in order to win. Tell me, why aren't there almost any HR, if they are so OP? Surely players would abuse HR to get easy wins, right?
    Yeah, if you are bad and have no clue about how to play pvp good HRs will destroy you. But that's true for any class. I might as well record some pvp gameplay myself if I have the time. Im getting sick of clueless people calling HR op or even comparing it to m5 TR.
  • graynotegraynote Member Posts: 29 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    gweddry wrote: »
    Saying that HR is uber OP is outright stupid. As a reference, go watch some high level pvps, there are a few prople that upload pvp matches on YouTube. And yes, there are people among those who are willing to abuse bugs etc. in order to win. Tell me, why aren't there almost any HR, if they are so OP?
    Sure, if you are bad and have no clue about how to play pvp good HRs will destroy you. But that's true for any class. I might as well record some pvp gameplay myself if I have the time. Im getting sick of clueless people calling HR op or even comparing it to m5 TR.

    I have a Range spec HR with fey and my power/aimed shot hits like truck I can chop 70% of TR hp easily
  • gweddrygweddry Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 278 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    Are you serious? In pvp, you usually, almost all the time, fight on a node. NO TR will ever allow you to charge your aimed shot. Heck, you won't even be able to target him.
  • felixkamfelixkam Member Posts: 99 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    graynote wrote: »
    I have a Range spec HR with fey and my power/aimed shot hits like truck I can chop 70% of TR hp easily

    First of all, I'll congratulate you on hitting someone with aimed Shot since its practically impossible in PvP.

    The next thing I'll say is that's highly unlikely in a 1v1 scenario because Aimed Shots damage is at base around, 15-20k without a crit and at level 70. Assuming you crit with a p. Vorpal and the 3rd tier melee crit buff, you'll hit for 60k base with an additional process for 6k. Okay so if we look at the base numbers its doable. Then account for the difficulty of getting n aimed shot off on a TR, not having it deflected, and accounting for your stats being able to ensure that you still do full damage and the probability just drops too low for it to be representative of a HRs actual capabilities outside of the occasional lucky shot.
    Personal Projects - Check out my take on these D&D classes for Neverwinter:
    Complete:
    - The Monk - http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?865991-The-Monk-A-Relatively-Detailed-Proposal-for-a-New-Class

    Under Work:
    - The Primal Totemist
    - The Wild Sorcerer
    - The Summoning Binder
  • graynotegraynote Member Posts: 29 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    Ohh you people dont know strategy? havent you heard about geographical advantage? tsk tsk I was able to dominate with my Archer spec HR because I think before I act and Im always 3 steaps ahead. The problem with some people is they only know brute force I studied HR strategies all the games I played I specialized range class and HR is my favorite.
  • graynotegraynote Member Posts: 29 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    felixkam wrote: »
    First of all, I'll congratulate you on hitting someone with aimed Shot since its practically impossible in PvP.

    The next thing I'll say is that's highly unlikely in a 1v1 scenario because Aimed Shots damage is at base around, 15-20k without a crit and at level 70. Assuming you crit with a p. Vorpal and the 3rd tier melee crit buff, you'll hit for 60k base with an additional process for 6k. Okay so if we look at the base numbers its doable. Then account for the difficulty of getting n aimed shot off on a TR, not having it deflected, and accounting for your stats being able to ensure that you still do full damage and the probability just drops too low for it to be representative of a HRs actual capabilities outside of the occasional lucky shot.

    There are different scenarios in pvp 1v1 againts a TR I have tricks on my own to land and Im not sharing it here learn on your own. If you think pvp is just all about 1v1 you people are wrong big factor in winning matches is via teamplay and HRs got tools to make it land defelct chance of 50% then you still have 50% to get full damage. Its all about timing, preparation, positioning knowing whos around the area where is their CW where is the TR many many factors to consider Im a range class specialist my friend things I know and experience is beyond your skills.
  • felixkamfelixkam Member Posts: 99 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    graynote wrote: »
    Ohh you people dont know strategy? havent you heard about geographical advantage? tsk tsk I was able to dominate with my Archer spec HR because I think before I act and Im always 3 steaps ahead. The problem with some people is they only know brute force I studied HR strategies all the games I played I specialized range class and HR is my favorite.

    To be fair I stopped using Aimed Shot along while ago because of how easy it was to disrupt even when I was under Forest Ghosts effect so. After all even some random damage trigger which I deflect will result in me having to start from the beginning. Instead I've switched over to either running multi shot or CA as my second at-will in PvP.

    The other thing is that this has nothing to do with crushing roots so I'll throw this into it to keep it on topic.

    The daze from a strong roots application only lasts about 1 seconds. At rank 4 Aimed Shot requires 2.5-3 seconds of uninterrupted channeling. As you can tell most enemies will have realised you were the one who dazed them and retaliated within that time. Thus making it not useful outside of a lucky first shot, or r
    Comparatively weak finisher. And by comparatively I mean to say compared to most other finishers in this game, eg. Disintegrate, Lashing Blade, Ice Knife, Shocking Execution, Crescendo, IBS, Killing Flames, etc..
    Personal Projects - Check out my take on these D&D classes for Neverwinter:
    Complete:
    - The Monk - http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?865991-The-Monk-A-Relatively-Detailed-Proposal-for-a-New-Class

    Under Work:
    - The Primal Totemist
    - The Wild Sorcerer
    - The Summoning Binder
  • graynotegraynote Member Posts: 29 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    felixkam wrote: »
    To be fair I stopped using Aimed Shot along while ago because of how easy it was to disrupt even when I was under Forest Ghosts effect so. After all even some random damage trigger which I deflect will result in me having to start from the beginning. Instead I've switched over to either running multi shot or CA as my second at-will in PvP.

    The other thing is that this has nothing to do with crushing roots so I'll throw this into it to keep it on topic.

    The daze from a strong roots application only lasts about 1 seconds. At rank 4 Aimed Shot requires 2.5-3 seconds of uninterrupted channeling. As you can tell most enemies will have realised you were the one who dazed them and retaliated within that time. Thus making it not useful outside of a lucky first shot, or r
    Comparatively weak finisher. And by comparatively I mean to say compared to most other finishers in this game, eg. Disintegrate, Lashing Blade, Ice Knife, Shocking Execution, Crescendo, IBS, Killing Flames, etc..

    Like what I have said I have my own tricks :cool: we are not of the same level when it comes to range classes your more specialized in trapper or melee type HR tho so best of luck to us.
  • blackxxwolf3blackxxwolf3 Member Posts: 1,539 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    felixkam wrote: »
    To be fair I stopped using Aimed Shot along while ago because of how easy it was to disrupt even when I was under Forest Ghosts effect so. After all even some random damage trigger which I deflect will result in me having to start from the beginning. Instead I've switched over to either running multi shot or CA as my second at-will in PvP.

    The other thing is that this has nothing to do with crushing roots so I'll throw this into it to keep it on topic.

    The daze from a strong roots application only lasts about 1 seconds. At rank 4 Aimed Shot requires 2.5-3 seconds of uninterrupted channeling. As you can tell most enemies will have realised you were the one who dazed them and retaliated within that time. Thus making it not useful outside of a lucky first shot, or r
    Comparatively weak finisher. And by comparatively I mean to say compared to most other finishers in this game, eg. Disintegrate, Lashing Blade, Ice Knife, Shocking Execution, Crescendo, IBS, Killing Flames, etc..

    correction it lasts .5 of a second at rank 4.just did the math on a calculator.
  • aroshniaroshni Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 11 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    felixkam wrote: »
    Since everyone seems to be misinterpreting precisely how much is working together in order for a HR to do what they can do, and inserting out of topic items such as personal attacks, here is a comprehensive overview of how this so called Permadaze works.

    HRs have a paragon feat path called Trapper, which revolves around cycling through encounters quickly. This is shown most clearly by the two feats, Forestbond and Swiftness of the Fox. Forestbond causes the HRs cooldowns to be reduced by 5% whenever a grasping roots is applied, and stacks based on the number of enemies it is applied to. Swiftness of the Fox says that whenever a ranged power is used, melee cooldowns are reduced by 15% and vice-versa. Likewise this applies whenever an enemy is hit by on of the encounters.

    Through this the HR is able to cycle multiple encounters in a row assuming 100% accuracy and hitting multiple enemies, or multiple times with an encounter. The exception to this is when the feat Trapper's Cunning gets mixed in. Trapper's Cunning gives the HRs critical hits a 25% chance to apply weak grasping roots. This means that if a HR crits on a strong root application each and every tick will have a chance to apply the weak roots thus dazing the target while the roots go through. At best in PvP, a HRs strong grasping roots will tick ~4 times, once per second over a 4 second duration. This means that on average each application of strong roots will apply Trapper's Cunning once without other procs coming into question.

    The thing that ties all this together is the class feature Crushing Roots which causes the roots to daze to a maximum of 1 second on strong roots, and 0.5 of a second on weak roots. Thus the standard trapper rotation of Constricting, Hindering, Fox, results in with absolutely perfect timing, a 3.5 second daze per rotation. Then add in a 1.5 second daze from dazing shot, and you have a maximum of 5 seconds worth of daze per rotation, which combined with the previous cooldown reducing feats allows the HR to chain it over and over again.

    And while this sounds OP as heck, it is not as powerful as it sounds due to the following reasons:
    1) Roots last for up to 4 seconds on players, assuming strong roots and 0 tenacity or control resist. This means that the total daze duration per strong root is on average 1.5 seconds.
    2) Trappers Cunning relies on a critical hit to trigger. Thus unless the HR in question gets very lucky with their crits or is built purely towards this, it is unlikely to trigger so often that a strong root permadazes you.
    3) Hindering Shot works off of a charge system which means that at most the HR can get 4 rotations in without pausing before they have to stop. Once they stop there lies your chance to hit them back.
    4) None of the HRs skills with the exception of Dazing Shot actually daze without Crushing Roots being involved. Slotting it however means that the HR loses out on one of the following Aspect of the Lone Wolf, Pathfinder's Action. Stormwarden's Action, or Aspect of the Serpent. In the first two cases, the HR loses out on a significant amount of survivability, in the third case the HR loses out on reliability in pulling off this chain of encounters, and in the last case the HR loses out on a very large amount of damage and crit chance.
    5) The HR is squishy. Very very squishy. This is a problem accentuated by the many bugs which plague it, and a shockingly low base movement speed.
    6) All this is made under the best conditions that a HR could have. That is to say, that the enemy has no tenacity, which they unfortunately do have a very high tendency to have. Reducing the roots or dazes duration directly impacts the ability of a HR to permadaze you as expected. Thus having them makes it much harder for the HR to control you until you die.
    7) Another possible reason why you see so many people complain about how long this lasts is precisely because of just that. How long it lasts. To be more specific, this means that people found it to be less of a problem when you were simply taken down in one rotation by other classes such as the Control Wizard, or Trickster Rogue thanks to their high damage. HR however, does very little damage with each rotation, and the roots deal next to no damage due to yet another bug affecting it. As a result the HR has to slowly wear you down, forcing them to often use 20+ encounters in order to take down the target. This is likely the main reason why people are so frustrated. Because unlike the other classes who finish the fight quickly once you're caught, the HR has to do it slowly and over a long period of time.
    7) The skill and luck required to get to this level of power is extremely high. I can personally attest to the fact that if my computer so much as lags in the manner that it is prone to do with the onset of mod 6, the combo will be screwed up completely to the point that it is barely recoverable. In addition, you need to time your powers perfectly, even past the point of muscle memory since the dazes are so short that you have to screw up the enemies animation period for it to work instead of just mindlessly cycling. Third of all the dazes are only strong when and if Trapper's Cunning procs heavily in your favour.

    Thank you,
    A dedicated HR Main.

    Best post so far.

    I want you to be my sensei :)
  • damnwidgetdamnwidget Member Posts: 17 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    Sincerely, this whining about the Hunter Ranger crushing roots is just ridiculous. I play an Executioner MI Rogue and I can easily evade/kill two of them at the same time, even with better gear score than me. There are some of them that hit harder but in general their burst is not enough to kill me not even to get close and I am wearing just Grim Executioner PvP and a piece of Burning with lvl 7 and 5 runes and blue artifacts.

    If the HR needs something is lot of fixes as at least three of their main powers are just useless right now as they are bugged in the 4th rank, the trapper build is the only viable one in PvP and is not "that good". Even cordon of arrow last like 0.2 secs and this is a tier IV power.

    I guess for perma-stealth/sab rogues it will be even easier to evade/kill them, if you stack ItC you can even ignore them. I don't know how hard is to evade their daze/root rotations with other classes but I don't think they deserve a nerf at all, they should be able to kill other classes and they have their mechanics to do it.
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