Or, just do what they did to our Concussive Strikes, which is no more, no less than what chain daze+rooting deserves.
This is probably the most stupid balance suggestion I have read in past few weeks and there is a lot of them on these forums.
Another possible reason why you see so many people complain about how long this lasts is precisely because of just that. How long it lasts. To be more specific, this means that people found it to be less of a problem when you were simply taken down in one rotation by other classes such as the Control Wizard, or Trickster Rogue thanks to their high damage. HR however, does very little damage with each rotation, and the roots deal next to no damage due to yet another bug affecting it. As a result the HR has to slowly wear you down, forcing them to often use 20+ encounters in order to take down the target. This is likely the main reason why people are so frustrated. Because unlike the other classes who finish the fight quickly once you're caught, the HR has to do it slowly and over a long period of time.
In my opinion a great point felixkam made here. It is something I never even considered but seeing it written now it makes total sense. With that in mind, HR should receive serious damage buffs (along with fixes to the ridiculous amount of bugs the class has, starting with roots to be affected by arpen and control bonus(?)) and nerfs to prevent daze spam on one target.
This should happen. Buff basic CR duration but implement ICD, right now in a duel between two HRs wins the one that applies CR first and then the second one is doomed. If you think Concussive Strikes were overpowered, try Crushing Roots.
Don't tell me about CR duration being low, the dazes are so frequent that they interrupt literally every ability you try to use. I hate the fact that I'm forced to use it because every other HR does it.
You forgot to mention that the feat "Swiftness of the Fox" should also have ICD rangers can spam up to
9 encounters back to back hustle free they can even have 2 Thorn ward in a node
You forgot to mention that the feat "Swiftness of the Fox" should also have ICD rangers can spam up to
9 encounters back to back hustle free they can even have 2 Thorn ward in a node
No, HR can't have 2 thorn wards active at once. This was fixed quite some time ago, casting the encounter again will replace the existing thorn ward.
You forgot to mention that the feat "Swiftness of the Fox" should also have ICD rangers can spam up to
9 encounters back to back hustle free they can even have 2 Thorn ward in a node
Except you can't have more then one thorn ward active at a time.
edit: ninja'd
M6 almost drains your soul given how boring it is. (c) joocycuzzzzzz
I have nothing against Hrs.But what is broken is broken.
Some HRs here but also in another thread claimed
a)their encounters do max 5k damage
b)Their roots do very little damage.
Well the truth is otherwise.
[Combat (Self)] Critical Hit! "Rank7 HR" deals 6326 (22648) Physical Damage to you with Plant Growth.[Combat (Self)] Critical Hit! Rank7 HR deals 499 (2497) Physical Damage to you with Careful Attack.[Combat (Self)] Critical Hit! Rank7 HR deals 366 (1832) Physical Damage to you with Lostmauth's Vengeance.[Combat (Self)] CW deals 335 (797) Cold Damage to you with Ray of Frost.[Combat (Self)] Your Sanctuary gives 2223 (4003) Hit Points to .........[Combat (Self)] Your Sanctuary gives 1553 (3045) Hit Points to you.[Combat (Self)] Your Sanctuary gives 566 (4080) Hit Points to ......[Combat (Self)] Your Sanctuary gives 1553 (3045) Hit Points to you.[Combat (Self)] Critical Hit! Rank7 HR deals 6931 (22648) Physical Damage to you with Plant Growth.[Combat (Self)] Your Sanctuary gives 1553 (3045) Hit Points to you.[Combat (Self)] CW gives 0 Hold to you with Entangling Force.[Combat (Self)] Your Sanctuary gives 1553 (3045) Hit Points to you.[Combat (Self)] Critical Hit! Rank7 HR deals 6931 (22648) Physical Damage to you with Plant Growth.[Combat (Self)] CW gives 0 (1308) Arcane Damage to you with Entangling Force.[Combat (Self)] Critical Hit! Rank7 HR deals 418 (2092) Physical Damage to you with Careful Attack.[Combat (Self)] Critical Hit! Rank7 HR deals 384 (1920) Physical Damage to you with Lostmauth's Vengeance.[Combat (Self)] Your Aura of Divinity gives 1955 (3833) Hit Points to you.[Combat (Self)] Not enough charges.[Combat (Self)] Not enough charges.[Combat (Self)] Not enough charges.[Combat (Self)] Not enough charges.[Combat (Self)] Not enough charges.[Combat (Self)] Critical Hit! Rank7 HR deals 807 (1732) Physical Damage to you with Lostmauth's Vengeance.[Combat (Self)] CW deals 764 (979) Arcane Damage to you with Warped Magics.[Combat (Self)] Critical Hit! Rank7 HR deals 4745 (10189) Physical Damage to you with Hindering Strike.[Combat (Self)] Critical Hit! Rank7 HR deals 736 (1580) Physical Damage to you with Lostmauth's Vengeance.[Combat (Self)] Critical Hit! Rank7 HR deals 895 (1921) Physical Damage to you with Careful Attack.[Combat (Self)] Critical Hit! Rank7 HR deals 812 (1743) Physical Damage to you with Lostmauth's Vengeance.[Combat (Self)] Critical Hit! Rank7 HR deals 929 (1995) Physical Damage to you with Careful Attack.[Combat (Self)] Critical Hit! Rank7 HR deals 788 (1692) Physical Damage to you with Lostmauth's Vengeance.[Combat (Self)] Critical Hit! Rank7 HR deals 1035 (2223) Physical Damage to you with Careful Attack.[Combat (Self)] Cannot perform while disabled.[Combat (Self)] Critical Hit! Rank7 HR deals 7539 (15041) Physical Damage to you with Thorned Roots.[Combat (Self)] Rank7 HR deals 3003 (3991) Physical Damage to you with Hunter's Teamwork.[Combat (Self)] Critical Hit! GF deals 8644 (28591) Physical Damage to you with Bull Charge.[Combat (Self)] GF deals 48 (144) Fire Damage to you with Plague Fire Weapon.[Combat (Self)] Critical Hit! Rank7 HR deals 5053 (13726) Physical Damage to you with Disruptive Shot.[Combat (Self)] Critical Hit! Rank7 HR deals 1507 (4093) Physical Damage to you with Lostmauth's Vengeance.[Combat (Self)] Your Aura of Divinity gives 1966 (3854) Hit Points to you.[Combat (Self)] GF deals 567 (1723) Physical Damage to you with Jagged Blades.[Combat (Self)] Critical Hit! Rank7 HR deals 932 (2480) Physical Damage to you with Careful Attack.[Combat (Self)] Critical Hit! Rank7 HR deals 739 (1966) Physical Damage to you with Lostmauth's Vengeance.[Combat (Self)] Rank7 HR gives 0 Disable to you with Disruptive Shot.[Combat (Self)] GF gives 0 Knockback to you with Bull Charge.[Combat (Self)] CW deals 810 (979) Arcane Damage to you with Warped Magics.[Combat (Self)] Critical Hit! Rank7 HR deals 7656 (15041) Physical Damage to you with Thorned Roots.[Combat (Self)] GF deals 32 (61) Fire Damage to you with Plague Fire Weapon.[Combat (Self)] GF deals 2 (4) Fire Damage to you with Plague Fire Weapon.[Combat (Self)] GF deals 26 (151) Fire Damage to you with Plague Fire Weapon.[Combat (Self)] Rank7 HR deals 4405 (7970) Physical Damage to you with Binding Arrow.[Combat (Self)] GF deals 3323 (14269) Physical Damage to you with Lunging Strike.[Queue] OP was killed by Rank7 HR
^^^^^^^^^^^
1.Hrs do more than 5k damage as they claim.
2.What is this "Plant Growth" ticking?22k ticks???
3.Apparently through a marvelous build ,Hrs are able to crit almost continually x 15 secs.
I have nothing against Hrs.But what is broken is broken.
Some HRs here but also in another thread claimed
a)their encounters do max 5k damage
b)Their roots do very little damage.
Well the truth is otherwise.
[Combat (Self)] Critical Hit! "Rank7 HR" deals 6326 (22648) Physical Damage to you with Plant Growth.[Combat (Self)] Critical Hit! Rank7 HR deals 499 (2497) Physical Damage to you with Careful Attack.[Combat (Self)] Critical Hit! Rank7 HR deals 366 (1832) Physical Damage to you with Lostmauth's Vengeance.[Combat (Self)] CW deals 335 (797) Cold Damage to you with Ray of Frost.[Combat (Self)] Your Sanctuary gives 2223 (4003) Hit Points to .........[Combat (Self)] Your Sanctuary gives 1553 (3045) Hit Points to you.[Combat (Self)] Your Sanctuary gives 566 (4080) Hit Points to ......[Combat (Self)] Your Sanctuary gives 1553 (3045) Hit Points to you.[Combat (Self)] Critical Hit! Rank7 HR deals 6931 (22648) Physical Damage to you with Plant Growth.[Combat (Self)] Your Sanctuary gives 1553 (3045) Hit Points to you.[Combat (Self)] CW gives 0 Hold to you with Entangling Force.[Combat (Self)] Your Sanctuary gives 1553 (3045) Hit Points to you.[Combat (Self)] Critical Hit! Rank7 HR deals 6931 (22648) Physical Damage to you with Plant Growth.[Combat (Self)] CW gives 0 (1308) Arcane Damage to you with Entangling Force.[Combat (Self)] Critical Hit! Rank7 HR deals 418 (2092) Physical Damage to you with Careful Attack.[Combat (Self)] Critical Hit! Rank7 HR deals 384 (1920) Physical Damage to you with Lostmauth's Vengeance.[Combat (Self)] Your Aura of Divinity gives 1955 (3833) Hit Points to you.[Combat (Self)] Not enough charges.[Combat (Self)] Not enough charges.[Combat (Self)] Not enough charges.[Combat (Self)] Not enough charges.[Combat (Self)] Not enough charges.[Combat (Self)] Critical Hit! Rank7 HR deals 807 (1732) Physical Damage to you with Lostmauth's Vengeance.[Combat (Self)] CW deals 764 (979) Arcane Damage to you with Warped Magics.[Combat (Self)] Critical Hit! Rank7 HR deals 4745 (10189) Physical Damage to you with Hindering Strike.[Combat (Self)] Critical Hit! Rank7 HR deals 736 (1580) Physical Damage to you with Lostmauth's Vengeance.[Combat (Self)] Critical Hit! Rank7 HR deals 895 (1921) Physical Damage to you with Careful Attack.[Combat (Self)] Critical Hit! Rank7 HR deals 812 (1743) Physical Damage to you with Lostmauth's Vengeance.[Combat (Self)] Critical Hit! Rank7 HR deals 929 (1995) Physical Damage to you with Careful Attack.[Combat (Self)] Critical Hit! Rank7 HR deals 788 (1692) Physical Damage to you with Lostmauth's Vengeance.[Combat (Self)] Critical Hit! Rank7 HR deals 1035 (2223) Physical Damage to you with Careful Attack.[Combat (Self)] Cannot perform while disabled.[Combat (Self)] Critical Hit! Rank7 HR deals 7539 (15041) Physical Damage to you with Thorned Roots.[Combat (Self)] Rank7 HR deals 3003 (3991) Physical Damage to you with Hunter's Teamwork.[Combat (Self)] Critical Hit! GF deals 8644 (28591) Physical Damage to you with Bull Charge.[Combat (Self)] GF deals 48 (144) Fire Damage to you with Plague Fire Weapon.[Combat (Self)] Critical Hit! Rank7 HR deals 5053 (13726) Physical Damage to you with Disruptive Shot.[Combat (Self)] Critical Hit! Rank7 HR deals 1507 (4093) Physical Damage to you with Lostmauth's Vengeance.[Combat (Self)] Your Aura of Divinity gives 1966 (3854) Hit Points to you.[Combat (Self)] GF deals 567 (1723) Physical Damage to you with Jagged Blades.[Combat (Self)] Critical Hit! Rank7 HR deals 932 (2480) Physical Damage to you with Careful Attack.[Combat (Self)] Critical Hit! Rank7 HR deals 739 (1966) Physical Damage to you with Lostmauth's Vengeance.[Combat (Self)] Rank7 HR gives 0 Disable to you with Disruptive Shot.[Combat (Self)] GF gives 0 Knockback to you with Bull Charge.[Combat (Self)] CW deals 810 (979) Arcane Damage to you with Warped Magics.[Combat (Self)] Critical Hit! Rank7 HR deals 7656 (15041) Physical Damage to you with Thorned Roots.[Combat (Self)] GF deals 32 (61) Fire Damage to you with Plague Fire Weapon.[Combat (Self)] GF deals 2 (4) Fire Damage to you with Plague Fire Weapon.[Combat (Self)] GF deals 26 (151) Fire Damage to you with Plague Fire Weapon.[Combat (Self)] Rank7 HR deals 4405 (7970) Physical Damage to you with Binding Arrow.[Combat (Self)] GF deals 3323 (14269) Physical Damage to you with Lunging Strike.[Queue] OP was killed by Rank7 HR
^^^^^^^^^^^
1.Hrs do more than 5k damage as they claim.
2.What is this "Plant Growth" ticking?22k ticks???
3.Apparently through a marvelous build ,Hrs are able to crit almost continually x 15 secs.
No one will complain if this weeds dont hit like a truck, thats why we are here right?
and we will keep on pushing no matter how they defend their class.
You must not be geared for a rank 7 HR to be hitting those numbers on you, or the HR is being buffed by the GF. Considering you got hit by 7.6k crit thorned roots with base 15k damage, and you're an OP, I'm assuming you have 20% DR. For you to have those numbers, you're either getting your DR debuffed immensely and have no tenacity stacked (assuming those numbers, you have to have base 20% tenacity only or your DR is being debuffed; even then, if your DR is 0, you still only have around 28% tenacity).
Against max geared characters, thorned roots doesn't do nearly as much damage as it used to, and especially against a GF, it's pretty pathetic damage. Additionally, you're being 3v1'd in that example, which makes your point moot because that HR could have various buffs from the GF and CW, and you're only running self-logs, not party/global logs, which means you won't see the buff/debuffs to the enemies.
On that note, Crushing Roots is a fairly lame feat, but unfortunately necessary in this mod for HRs because of their comparatively low base damage compared to other classes, and because of how other classes function. At max gear level, Trapper HRs lose to Swordmaster GFs, and have at least a 50-50 chance against IV GFs, although I think it's more weighted towards the trapper winning against IVs. Atm trappers mostly stand a chance against CWs because of crushing roots - removing crushing roots would end up with the HR losing nearly all the time against the CW. Again, I think this is more of an issue with CWs than with HRs, because of the synergy between Negation and tab Shield, as well as the incredibly broken Spell Twisting feat.
Being permanently or continuously CC'd is not fun for anyone. It's what I hated about fighting Scoundrels last module - being unable to fight back is one of the worst feelings. I would have rather died to a Saboteur TR or an Executioner SoD exploiter than have to fight a scoundrel, even if it meant I would die most of the time against top TRs (as a trapper HR).
With that being said, I think Crushing Roots should be given a small ICD, separate for each type of roots. I think removing the dazes or putting a hard ICD on it would destroy the class feature and cripple the HR class as a team player (1v1 is a different story). Being able to interrupt opponents and time skills so that you prevent them from killing/disabling your own teammates is very useful in premades and team fights i.e. I can be 2v2 against a HR and GWF, and focusing the HR, but will turn around and Disruptive Shot the GWF if I see him about to land attacks or similar against my teammate, so that my teammate survives longer and can deal more damage or heal more. However, in its current state, Crushing Roots being able to be applied so continuously and rapidly is tending towards being broken.
Here are my suggestions for the feat:
a) Largely, a huge portion of being able to daze so much comes from the cooldown reduction feats in the Trapper tree, namely Forestbond and especially, Swiftness of the Fox. Because roots are now so spammable, dazes are also spammable. Coupled with Trapper's Cunning, it can be pretty much permadaze. Reducing Swiftness of the Fox to 5% per encounter would help, as it also applies on AoEs (Forestbond was nerfed from 15% to 5% because of AoEs as well). However, dazes from Weak Grasping Roots should have a 1-2 second ICD still, but I don't think there's any real need to put an ICD on Strong Grasping Roots as you should no longer be able to spam them as much. To compensate for these nerfs, I propose that HR base damage be increased across the board, so that we are less reliant on spamming encounters, and more oriented towards being able to deal damage to our opponents by timing skills and landing them at the right time to do larger amounts of damage. As it stands, missing an encounter isn't such a huge issue right now as it still reduces CDs depending on what the skill is. Sadly, 60% or more of trapper damage is coming from procs, not encounters.
OR
b) Put a 1-2s ICD on Weak Grasping Roots and a 3-5s ICD on Strong Grasping Roots. I give a range because the duration is affected by tenacity and control bonuses, so I'm not sure what the best value would be right now, but somewhere in those ranges would be fine.
OR
c) Change Crushing Roots to daze for 1-2 seconds on crits, with a 7-10 second ICD, and also make it buff your damage while roots are applied to an opponent.
Also hypervoreian, like a lot of powers, if you crit on the initial hit, the rest of the ticks crit. Or not.
2.What is this "Plant Growth" ticking?22k ticks???
3.Apparently through a marvelous build ,Hrs are able to crit almost continually x 15 secs.
Firstly, The plant growth base damage is around 20-24k damage at lvl 70. It is the only power of HR has that high base damage, others are around 3-4k base damage. So nothing surprise here.
Mean while, my lvl 66 GF, with lvl 55 blues gears, has 6-12k base damage on every encounter (Gotta love the GF's buff lol).
Secondly, what are your gears? Hard to believe a HR can do that much damage to a decent gear GF, unless of course some wallet warrior HRs.
In other games crowd control skills have no damage-small damage but in this game range class gets moderate-burst damage encounter with cc that increase the next damage applied by certain %.
No one will complain if this weeds dont hit like a truck, thats why we are here right?
and we will keep on pushing no matter how they defend their class.
You complain about CR combo and talk about encounter that doesn't proc CR
Pffftttt...
You must not be geared for a rank 7 HR to be hitting those numbers on you, or the HR is being buffed by the GF. Considering you got hit by 7.6k crit thorned roots with base 15k damage, and you're an OP, I'm assuming you have 20% DR. For you to have those numbers, you're either getting your DR debuffed immensely and have no tenacity stacked (assuming those numbers, you have to have base 20% tenacity only or your DR is being debuffed; even then, if your DR is 0, you still only have around 28% tenacity).
Against max geared characters, thorned roots doesn't do nearly as much damage as it used to, and especially against a GF, it's pretty pathetic damage. Additionally, you're being 3v1'd in that example, which makes your point moot because that HR could have various buffs from the GF and CW, and you're only running self-logs, not party/global logs, which means you won't see the buff/debuffs to the enemies.
On that note, Crushing Roots is a fairly lame feat, but unfortunately necessary in this mod for HRs because of their comparatively low base damage compared to other classes, and because of how other classes function. At max gear level, Trapper HRs lose to Swordmaster GFs, and have at least a 50-50 chance against IV GFs, although I think it's more weighted towards the trapper winning against IVs. Atm trappers mostly stand a chance against CWs because of crushing roots - removing crushing roots would end up with the HR losing nearly all the time against the CW. Again, I think this is more of an issue with CWs than with HRs, because of the synergy between Negation and tab Shield, as well as the incredibly broken Spell Twisting feat.
Being permanently or continuously CC'd is not fun for anyone. It's what I hated about fighting Scoundrels last module - being unable to fight back is one of the worst feelings. I would have rather died to a Saboteur TR or an Executioner SoD exploiter than have to fight a scoundrel, even if it meant I would die most of the time against top TRs (as a trapper HR).
With that being said, I think Crushing Roots should be given a small ICD, separate for each type of roots. I think removing the dazes or putting a hard ICD on it would destroy the class feature and cripple the HR class as a team player (1v1 is a different story). Being able to interrupt opponents and time skills so that you prevent them from killing/disabling your own teammates is very useful in premades and team fights i.e. I can be 2v2 against a HR and GWF, and focusing the HR, but will turn around and Disruptive Shot the GWF if I see him about to land attacks or similar against my teammate, so that my teammate survives longer and can deal more damage or heal more. However, in its current state, Crushing Roots being able to be applied so continuously and rapidly is tending towards being broken.
Here are my suggestions for the feat:
a) Largely, a huge portion of being able to daze so much comes from the cooldown reduction feats in the Trapper tree, namely Forestbond and especially, Swiftness of the Fox. Because roots are now so spammable, dazes are also spammable. Coupled with Trapper's Cunning, it can be pretty much permadaze. Reducing Swiftness of the Fox to 5% per encounter would help, as it also applies on AoEs (Forestbond was nerfed from 15% to 5% because of AoEs as well). However, dazes from Weak Grasping Roots should have a 1-2 second ICD still, but I don't think there's any real need to put an ICD on Strong Grasping Roots as you should no longer be able to spam them as much. To compensate for these nerfs, I propose that HR base damage be increased across the board, so that we are less reliant on spamming encounters, and more oriented towards being able to deal damage to our opponents by timing skills and landing them at the right time to do larger amounts of damage. As it stands, missing an encounter isn't such a huge issue right now as it still reduces CDs depending on what the skill is. Sadly, 60% or more of trapper damage is coming from procs, not encounters.
OR
b) Put a 1-2s ICD on Weak Grasping Roots and a 3-5s ICD on Strong Grasping Roots. I give a range because the duration is affected by tenacity and control bonuses, so I'm not sure what the best value would be right now, but somewhere in those ranges would be fine.
OR
c) Change Crushing Roots to daze for 1-2 seconds on crits, with a 7-10 second ICD, and also make it buff your damage while roots are applied to an opponent.
Also hypervoreian, like a lot of powers, if you crit on the initial hit, the rest of the ticks crit. Or not.
^^^
The point of the log post was to disclaim the widely spread view that HRs do less than 5k damage on encounters.
Most of his encounters are in 12-15k unmitigated range.
As said i do not hold a grudge against HRs or want them nerfed.(even if some HRs jumped first in the band wagon of GF nerf threads).But i want to fight them back.
Also annoyed me the 10-12 sec continual crits.These are not the Dots that crit.His whole rotation critted.In the interval his att wills critted aswell.
The HRs' responses were true and informative and I don't want to post anything else ,since Hr community aknowledges the problem and suggests solutions.
You complain about CR combo and talk about encounter that doesn't proc CR
Pffftttt...
Everyone complained and cried for nerf on TR: Knife Edge and dazes even stealth but hey is it not the same mechanic? Knife's Edge and Swiftness of the Fox, TR got daze HR got daze too, TR got stealth HR got stealth too but HR got some advantage over TR like invulnerability from Fox S/C and Marauder and on top of that you guys have roots and 9 encounters (6 if your not trapper). You people want balance... same goes for us we want balance.
HR melee form should be inferior to its range form so we can have variation among TR and HR and thats TR being heavy melee and HR being range problem is HR melee and range tab doesnt go on cooldown and they have the same damage and speed is it not more sensible if HR range is slow and powerful while melee form is fast but weak?
And one more thing I cant accept the fact that a range class like HR gets tons of root effect on its encounters correct me if Im wrong 5 encounters that can root giving them superb sticking power for a range class compared to GWF who is melee in nature.
and then we gotta get right back in ready to take damage with <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> defense. check mate.
ohh? probably not coz what I know is and based on experience after receiving bombardment of root, daze and bleed the next thing you will do is run and get pots coz when you chase a HR after 6 encounters there is another 3 ready and probably fox shift/cunning is waiting.
ohh? probably not coz what I know is and based on experience after receiving bombardment of root, daze and bleed the next thing you will do is run and get pots coz when you chase a HR after 6 encounters there is another 3 ready and probably fox shift/cunning is waiting.
Yea well take a good look at "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KJRsLWbfj94" there will be no chasing after that you be staring at the campfire same as Hr does after Cws storm +procs or Trs Sod+daze+exe.
The differance is that even if your chained dazed there is time for others to help you and even for you to actually act before you die simply because Hr damage is lacking of burst dps.
I fully agree that chain ccing in any form is not only bad but destroying the very idea of pvp but if I have to pick from being cced to death while my team got a chanse to save me or killed in a fast burst i think I take my chanses with the cc.
I agree that Hr daze chain is annoying and I prefer we get more damage instead but seeing cw tr or gwf complain about Hr -well is something of an irony in itself....
Yea well take a good look at "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KJRsLWbfj94" there will be no chasing after that you be staring at the campfire same as Hr does after Cws storm +procs or Trs Sod+daze+exe.
The differance is that even if your chained dazed there is time for others to help you and even for you to actually act before you die simply because Hr damage is lacking of burst dps.
I fully agree that chain ccing in any form is not only bad but destroying the very idea of pvp but if I have to pick from being cced to death while my team got a chanse to save me or killed in a fast burst i think I take my chanses with the cc.
I agree that Hr daze chain is annoying and I prefer we get more damage instead but seeing cw tr or gwf complain about Hr -well is something of an irony in itself....
cool story bro Disney wants you send them your CV they need your epic story telling skills
cool story bro Disney wants you send them your CV they need your epic story telling skills
Yea you obviously live in la la land and maby been watching cartoons so much that you no longer can separate reality from fantazy so clearly showned in your posts.
Go get a reailyt check stop watching to much cartoons all day if it makes you loose the grip of reality mkay.
Yea you obviously live in la la land and maby been watching cartoons so much that you no longer can separate reality from fantazy so clearly showned in your posts.
Go get a reailyt check stop watching to much cartoons all day if it makes you loose the grip of reality mkay.
your name sounds like carnival.. so you brought your freak show here?
No more comparing HR to GWF. GWF wipes the floor with a trapper. I fought a slightly better geared GWF yesterday, made him miss 3 FULL rotations and still almost died. That just goes to show how little damage hunters have. Honestly though, I think that giving HR a better, reliable dodge should suffice for a start. From my pov, HR is not the class that should be nerfed, in fact, it is one of the worst pvp classes atm. Only people that can possibly complain are SW players.
I absolutely understand that some people hate hunters for many reasons, like the superhero combatant from I believe m4, but please, that's not relevant anymore. Although I feel like im wasting my time trying to explain.
No more comparing HR to GWF. GWF wipes the floor with a trapper. I fought a slightly better geared GWF yesterday, made him miss 3 FULL rotations and still almost died. That just goes to show how little damage hunters have. Honestly though, I think that giving HR a better, reliable dodge should suffice for a start. From my pov, HR is not the class that should be nerfed, in fact, it is one of the worst pvp classes atm. Only people that can possibly complain are SW players.
I absolutely understand that some people hate hunters for many reasons, like the superhero combatant from I believe m4, but please, that's not relevant anymore. Although I feel like im wasting my time trying to explain.
Cool story how will you know if you cant inspect enemy? seriously the story making on this thread is epic.
Cool story how will you know if you cant expect enemy? seriously the story making on this thread is epic.
I'm afraid I dont understand what "know if you can't expect enemy" means. And this is no story making or whatever, those are facts I know from playing pvp myself and talking to ppl who actually play pvp and are good at it.
E: Ah you meant inspect. You can inspect ppl in pvp if they PM you or say something in chat. That's how I knew his gear.
Since everyone seems to be misinterpreting precisely how much is working together in order for a HR to do what they can do, and inserting out of topic items such as personal attacks, here is a comprehensive overview of how this so called Permadaze works.
HRs have a paragon feat path called Trapper, which revolves around cycling through encounters quickly. This is shown most clearly by the two feats, Forestbond and Swiftness of the Fox. Forestbond causes the HRs cooldowns to be reduced by 5% whenever a grasping roots is applied, and stacks based on the number of enemies it is applied to. Swiftness of the Fox says that whenever a ranged power is used, melee cooldowns are reduced by 15% and vice-versa. Likewise this applies whenever an enemy is hit by on of the encounters.
Through this the HR is able to cycle multiple encounters in a row assuming 100% accuracy and hitting multiple enemies, or multiple times with an encounter. The exception to this is when the feat Trapper's Cunning gets mixed in. Trapper's Cunning gives the HRs critical hits a 25% chance to apply weak grasping roots. This means that if a HR crits on a strong root application each and every tick will have a chance to apply the weak roots thus dazing the target while the roots go through. At best in PvP, a HRs strong grasping roots will tick ~4 times, once per second over a 4 second duration. This means that on average each application of strong roots will apply Trapper's Cunning once without other procs coming into question.
The thing that ties all this together is the class feature Crushing Roots which causes the roots to daze to a maximum of 1 second on strong roots, and 0.5 of a second on weak roots. Thus the standard trapper rotation of Constricting, Hindering, Fox, results in with absolutely perfect timing, a 3.5 second daze per rotation. Then add in a 1.5 second daze from dazing shot, and you have a maximum of 5 seconds worth of daze per rotation, which combined with the previous cooldown reducing feats allows the HR to chain it over and over again.
And while this sounds OP as heck, it is not as powerful as it sounds due to the following reasons:
1) Roots last for up to 4 seconds on players, assuming strong roots and 0 tenacity or control resist. This means that the total daze duration per strong root is on average 1.5 seconds.
2) Trappers Cunning relies on a critical hit to trigger. Thus unless the HR in question gets very lucky with their crits or is built purely towards this, it is unlikely to trigger so often that a strong root permadazes you.
3) Hindering Shot works off of a charge system which means that at most the HR can get 4 rotations in without pausing before they have to stop. Once they stop there lies your chance to hit them back.
4) None of the HRs skills with the exception of Dazing Shot actually daze without Crushing Roots being involved. Slotting it however means that the HR loses out on one of the following Aspect of the Lone Wolf, Pathfinder's Action. Stormwarden's Action, or Aspect of the Serpent. In the first two cases, the HR loses out on a significant amount of survivability, in the third case the HR loses out on reliability in pulling off this chain of encounters, and in the last case the HR loses out on a very large amount of damage and crit chance.
5) The HR is squishy. Very very squishy. This is a problem accentuated by the many bugs which plague it, and a shockingly low base movement speed.
6) All this is made under the best conditions that a HR could have. That is to say, that the enemy has no tenacity, which they unfortunately do have a very high tendency to have. Reducing the roots or dazes duration directly impacts the ability of a HR to permadaze you as expected. Thus having them makes it much harder for the HR to control you until you die.
7) Another possible reason why you see so many people complain about how long this lasts is precisely because of just that. How long it lasts. To be more specific, this means that people found it to be less of a problem when you were simply taken down in one rotation by other classes such as the Control Wizard, or Trickster Rogue thanks to their high damage. HR however, does very little damage with each rotation, and the roots deal next to no damage due to yet another bug affecting it. As a result the HR has to slowly wear you down, forcing them to often use 20+ encounters in order to take down the target. This is likely the main reason why people are so frustrated. Because unlike the other classes who finish the fight quickly once you're caught, the HR has to do it slowly and over a long period of time.
7) The skill and luck required to get to this level of power is extremely high. I can personally attest to the fact that if my computer so much as lags in the manner that it is prone to do with the onset of mod 6, the combo will be screwed up completely to the point that it is barely recoverable. In addition, you need to time your powers perfectly, even past the point of muscle memory since the dazes are so short that you have to screw up the enemies animation period for it to work instead of just mindlessly cycling. Third of all the dazes are only strong when and if Trapper's Cunning procs heavily in your favour.
Thank you,
A dedicated HR Main.
I just want to compliment you. I'm a Trapper, always have been, always will be, and this sounds exactly right. One thing to keep in mind is that Trappers suck 1v1 or even 2v2. They do their best work in traffic. But with that, more times than not, gets mucked up because of the lag. Anything that disrupts the rotation messes up muscle memory, and the next thing you know, you have completely lost track of what buttons you are pushing. HR is a difficult class to play well, and for those few of us remaining, that is about the only reason to play it.
No more comparing HR to GWF. GWF wipes the floor with a trapper. I fought a slightly better geared GWF yesterday, made him miss 3 FULL rotations and still almost died. That just goes to show how little damage hunters have. Honestly though, I think that giving HR a better, reliable dodge should suffice for a start. From my pov, HR is not the class that should be nerfed, in fact, it is one of the worst pvp classes atm. Only people that can possibly complain are SW players.
I absolutely understand that some people hate hunters for many reasons, like the superhero combatant from I believe m4, but please, that's not relevant anymore. Although I feel like im wasting my time trying to explain.
So now you want all your friggin utilties, the ability to permaroot and permadaze starting from 80' away, and then asking for damage on top of all that as well
...all the while your kind had spent so much effort into slandering and crapping on Scoundrel TRs during mod5. Just no shame. Only a gross double standard.
For the record, seeing the way how basically everyone jumped on the bandwagon to destroy Scoundrel TRs, there's no way anyone is agreeing the HRs need more damage.
So now you want all your friggin utilties, the ability to permaroot and permadaze starting from 80' away, and then asking for damage on top of all that as well
...all the while your kind had spent so much effort into slandering and crapping on Scoundrel TRs during mod5. Just no shame. Only a gross double standard.
For the record, seeing the way how basically everyone jumped on the bandwagon to destroy Scoundrel TRs, there's no way anyone is agreeing the HRs need more damage.
HR don't need damage buff only need to fix some bug like root not affect by arp and aspect of the lone wolf at rank 4 give -10% deflect
Don't compare uncounterable TR scroundel in mod 5 equal with trapper HR mod 6 you seriusly need l2p
You know another bug on TR? 2s reveal no longer exist and this need fix as well
HR damage is fine no need for buffs actually its damage should be reduce and root should never get arpen. Its like double buff if its going to happen so for balance sake HR remains as it is no buff to damage no buff to roots make its a 1 sec root duration why? HR got multiple encounters that applies roots and it has long range and 9 encounters. Nuf said no more buff for HR it has excessive tools already learn to play gear up your toon and dont play hypocrite coz I know what HR have now.
Comments
This is probably the most stupid balance suggestion I have read in past few weeks and there is a lot of them on these forums.
In my opinion a great point felixkam made here. It is something I never even considered but seeing it written now it makes total sense. With that in mind, HR should receive serious damage buffs (along with fixes to the ridiculous amount of bugs the class has, starting with roots to be affected by arpen and control bonus(?)) and nerfs to prevent daze spam on one target.
You forgot to mention that the feat "Swiftness of the Fox" should also have ICD rangers can spam up to
9 encounters back to back hustle free they can even have 2 Thorn ward in a node
No, HR can't have 2 thorn wards active at once. This was fixed quite some time ago, casting the encounter again will replace the existing thorn ward.
Except you can't have more then one thorn ward active at a time.
edit: ninja'd
Some HRs here but also in another thread claimed
a)their encounters do max 5k damage
b)Their roots do very little damage.
Well the truth is otherwise.
[Combat (Self)] Critical Hit! "Rank7 HR" deals 6326 (22648) Physical Damage to you with Plant Growth.[Combat (Self)] Critical Hit! Rank7 HR deals 499 (2497) Physical Damage to you with Careful Attack.[Combat (Self)] Critical Hit! Rank7 HR deals 366 (1832) Physical Damage to you with Lostmauth's Vengeance.[Combat (Self)] CW deals 335 (797) Cold Damage to you with Ray of Frost.[Combat (Self)] Your Sanctuary gives 2223 (4003) Hit Points to .........[Combat (Self)] Your Sanctuary gives 1553 (3045) Hit Points to you.[Combat (Self)] Your Sanctuary gives 566 (4080) Hit Points to ......[Combat (Self)] Your Sanctuary gives 1553 (3045) Hit Points to you.[Combat (Self)] Critical Hit! Rank7 HR deals 6931 (22648) Physical Damage to you with Plant Growth.[Combat (Self)] Your Sanctuary gives 1553 (3045) Hit Points to you.[Combat (Self)] CW gives 0 Hold to you with Entangling Force.[Combat (Self)] Your Sanctuary gives 1553 (3045) Hit Points to you.[Combat (Self)] Critical Hit! Rank7 HR deals 6931 (22648) Physical Damage to you with Plant Growth.[Combat (Self)] CW gives 0 (1308) Arcane Damage to you with Entangling Force.[Combat (Self)] Critical Hit! Rank7 HR deals 418 (2092) Physical Damage to you with Careful Attack.[Combat (Self)] Critical Hit! Rank7 HR deals 384 (1920) Physical Damage to you with Lostmauth's Vengeance.[Combat (Self)] Your Aura of Divinity gives 1955 (3833) Hit Points to you.[Combat (Self)] Not enough charges.[Combat (Self)] Not enough charges.[Combat (Self)] Not enough charges.[Combat (Self)] Not enough charges.[Combat (Self)] Not enough charges.[Combat (Self)] Critical Hit! Rank7 HR deals 807 (1732) Physical Damage to you with Lostmauth's Vengeance.[Combat (Self)] CW deals 764 (979) Arcane Damage to you with Warped Magics.[Combat (Self)] Critical Hit! Rank7 HR deals 4745 (10189) Physical Damage to you with Hindering Strike.[Combat (Self)] Critical Hit! Rank7 HR deals 736 (1580) Physical Damage to you with Lostmauth's Vengeance.[Combat (Self)] Critical Hit! Rank7 HR deals 895 (1921) Physical Damage to you with Careful Attack.[Combat (Self)] Critical Hit! Rank7 HR deals 812 (1743) Physical Damage to you with Lostmauth's Vengeance.[Combat (Self)] Critical Hit! Rank7 HR deals 929 (1995) Physical Damage to you with Careful Attack.[Combat (Self)] Critical Hit! Rank7 HR deals 788 (1692) Physical Damage to you with Lostmauth's Vengeance.[Combat (Self)] Critical Hit! Rank7 HR deals 1035 (2223) Physical Damage to you with Careful Attack.[Combat (Self)] Cannot perform while disabled.[Combat (Self)] Critical Hit! Rank7 HR deals 7539 (15041) Physical Damage to you with Thorned Roots.[Combat (Self)] Rank7 HR deals 3003 (3991) Physical Damage to you with Hunter's Teamwork.[Combat (Self)] Critical Hit! GF deals 8644 (28591) Physical Damage to you with Bull Charge.[Combat (Self)] GF deals 48 (144) Fire Damage to you with Plague Fire Weapon.[Combat (Self)] Critical Hit! Rank7 HR deals 5053 (13726) Physical Damage to you with Disruptive Shot.[Combat (Self)] Critical Hit! Rank7 HR deals 1507 (4093) Physical Damage to you with Lostmauth's Vengeance.[Combat (Self)] Your Aura of Divinity gives 1966 (3854) Hit Points to you.[Combat (Self)] GF deals 567 (1723) Physical Damage to you with Jagged Blades.[Combat (Self)] Critical Hit! Rank7 HR deals 932 (2480) Physical Damage to you with Careful Attack.[Combat (Self)] Critical Hit! Rank7 HR deals 739 (1966) Physical Damage to you with Lostmauth's Vengeance.[Combat (Self)] Rank7 HR gives 0 Disable to you with Disruptive Shot.[Combat (Self)] GF gives 0 Knockback to you with Bull Charge.[Combat (Self)] CW deals 810 (979) Arcane Damage to you with Warped Magics.[Combat (Self)] Critical Hit! Rank7 HR deals 7656 (15041) Physical Damage to you with Thorned Roots.[Combat (Self)] GF deals 32 (61) Fire Damage to you with Plague Fire Weapon.[Combat (Self)] GF deals 2 (4) Fire Damage to you with Plague Fire Weapon.[Combat (Self)] GF deals 26 (151) Fire Damage to you with Plague Fire Weapon.[Combat (Self)] Rank7 HR deals 4405 (7970) Physical Damage to you with Binding Arrow.[Combat (Self)] GF deals 3323 (14269) Physical Damage to you with Lunging Strike.[Queue] OP was killed by Rank7 HR
^^^^^^^^^^^
1.Hrs do more than 5k damage as they claim.
2.What is this "Plant Growth" ticking?22k ticks???
3.Apparently through a marvelous build ,Hrs are able to crit almost continually x 15 secs.
No one will complain if this weeds dont hit like a truck, thats why we are here right?
and we will keep on pushing no matter how they defend their class.
You must not be geared for a rank 7 HR to be hitting those numbers on you, or the HR is being buffed by the GF. Considering you got hit by 7.6k crit thorned roots with base 15k damage, and you're an OP, I'm assuming you have 20% DR. For you to have those numbers, you're either getting your DR debuffed immensely and have no tenacity stacked (assuming those numbers, you have to have base 20% tenacity only or your DR is being debuffed; even then, if your DR is 0, you still only have around 28% tenacity).
Against max geared characters, thorned roots doesn't do nearly as much damage as it used to, and especially against a GF, it's pretty pathetic damage. Additionally, you're being 3v1'd in that example, which makes your point moot because that HR could have various buffs from the GF and CW, and you're only running self-logs, not party/global logs, which means you won't see the buff/debuffs to the enemies.
On that note, Crushing Roots is a fairly lame feat, but unfortunately necessary in this mod for HRs because of their comparatively low base damage compared to other classes, and because of how other classes function. At max gear level, Trapper HRs lose to Swordmaster GFs, and have at least a 50-50 chance against IV GFs, although I think it's more weighted towards the trapper winning against IVs. Atm trappers mostly stand a chance against CWs because of crushing roots - removing crushing roots would end up with the HR losing nearly all the time against the CW. Again, I think this is more of an issue with CWs than with HRs, because of the synergy between Negation and tab Shield, as well as the incredibly broken Spell Twisting feat.
Being permanently or continuously CC'd is not fun for anyone. It's what I hated about fighting Scoundrels last module - being unable to fight back is one of the worst feelings. I would have rather died to a Saboteur TR or an Executioner SoD exploiter than have to fight a scoundrel, even if it meant I would die most of the time against top TRs (as a trapper HR).
With that being said, I think Crushing Roots should be given a small ICD, separate for each type of roots. I think removing the dazes or putting a hard ICD on it would destroy the class feature and cripple the HR class as a team player (1v1 is a different story). Being able to interrupt opponents and time skills so that you prevent them from killing/disabling your own teammates is very useful in premades and team fights i.e. I can be 2v2 against a HR and GWF, and focusing the HR, but will turn around and Disruptive Shot the GWF if I see him about to land attacks or similar against my teammate, so that my teammate survives longer and can deal more damage or heal more. However, in its current state, Crushing Roots being able to be applied so continuously and rapidly is tending towards being broken.
Here are my suggestions for the feat:
a) Largely, a huge portion of being able to daze so much comes from the cooldown reduction feats in the Trapper tree, namely Forestbond and especially, Swiftness of the Fox. Because roots are now so spammable, dazes are also spammable. Coupled with Trapper's Cunning, it can be pretty much permadaze. Reducing Swiftness of the Fox to 5% per encounter would help, as it also applies on AoEs (Forestbond was nerfed from 15% to 5% because of AoEs as well). However, dazes from Weak Grasping Roots should have a 1-2 second ICD still, but I don't think there's any real need to put an ICD on Strong Grasping Roots as you should no longer be able to spam them as much. To compensate for these nerfs, I propose that HR base damage be increased across the board, so that we are less reliant on spamming encounters, and more oriented towards being able to deal damage to our opponents by timing skills and landing them at the right time to do larger amounts of damage. As it stands, missing an encounter isn't such a huge issue right now as it still reduces CDs depending on what the skill is. Sadly, 60% or more of trapper damage is coming from procs, not encounters.
OR
b) Put a 1-2s ICD on Weak Grasping Roots and a 3-5s ICD on Strong Grasping Roots. I give a range because the duration is affected by tenacity and control bonuses, so I'm not sure what the best value would be right now, but somewhere in those ranges would be fine.
OR
c) Change Crushing Roots to daze for 1-2 seconds on crits, with a 7-10 second ICD, and also make it buff your damage while roots are applied to an opponent.
Also hypervoreian, like a lot of powers, if you crit on the initial hit, the rest of the ticks crit. Or not.
Firstly, The plant growth base damage is around 20-24k damage at lvl 70. It is the only power of HR has that high base damage, others are around 3-4k base damage. So nothing surprise here.
Mean while, my lvl 66 GF, with lvl 55 blues gears, has 6-12k base damage on every encounter (Gotta love the GF's buff lol).
Secondly, what are your gears? Hard to believe a HR can do that much damage to a decent gear GF, unless of course some wallet warrior HRs.
You complain about CR combo and talk about encounter that doesn't proc CR
Pffftttt...
^^^
The point of the log post was to disclaim the widely spread view that HRs do less than 5k damage on encounters.
Most of his encounters are in 12-15k unmitigated range.
As said i do not hold a grudge against HRs or want them nerfed.(even if some HRs jumped first in the band wagon of GF nerf threads).But i want to fight them back.
Also annoyed me the 10-12 sec continual crits.These are not the Dots that crit.His whole rotation critted.In the interval his att wills critted aswell.
The HRs' responses were true and informative and I don't want to post anything else ,since Hr community aknowledges the problem and suggests solutions.
Everyone complained and cried for nerf on TR: Knife Edge and dazes even stealth but hey is it not the same mechanic? Knife's Edge and Swiftness of the Fox, TR got daze HR got daze too, TR got stealth HR got stealth too but HR got some advantage over TR like invulnerability from Fox S/C and Marauder and on top of that you guys have roots and 9 encounters (6 if your not trapper). You people want balance... same goes for us we want balance.
HR melee form should be inferior to its range form so we can have variation among TR and HR and thats TR being heavy melee and HR being range problem is HR melee and range tab doesnt go on cooldown and they have the same damage and speed is it not more sensible if HR range is slow and powerful while melee form is fast but weak?
And one more thing I cant accept the fact that a range class like HR gets tons of root effect on its encounters correct me if Im wrong 5 encounters that can root giving them superb sticking power for a range class compared to GWF who is melee in nature.
Thats why you dont have sticking powers and you should never have it.
find a hr doing that damage...they hit like wet peanuts and its offensive to call them strikers.
thats pve show us his pvp video gwf need to get upclose before he can deal damage HR can get in spam daze get out spam root dodge and everthing.
and then we gotta get right back in ready to take damage with <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> defense. check mate.
ohh? probably not coz what I know is and based on experience after receiving bombardment of root, daze and bleed the next thing you will do is run and get pots coz when you chase a HR after 6 encounters there is another 3 ready and probably fox shift/cunning is waiting.
Yea well take a good look at "
The differance is that even if your chained dazed there is time for others to help you and even for you to actually act before you die simply because Hr damage is lacking of burst dps.
I fully agree that chain ccing in any form is not only bad but destroying the very idea of pvp but if I have to pick from being cced to death while my team got a chanse to save me or killed in a fast burst i think I take my chanses with the cc.
I agree that Hr daze chain is annoying and I prefer we get more damage instead but seeing cw tr or gwf complain about Hr -well is something of an irony in itself....
cool story bro Disney wants you send them your CV they need your epic story telling skills
Yea you obviously live in la la land and maby been watching cartoons so much that you no longer can separate reality from fantazy so clearly showned in your posts.
Go get a reailyt check stop watching to much cartoons all day if it makes you loose the grip of reality mkay.
your name sounds like carnival.. so you brought your freak show here?
Compelling argument - your name sound like --- good argument for a 6 year old maby .............
I absolutely understand that some people hate hunters for many reasons, like the superhero combatant from I believe m4, but please, that's not relevant anymore. Although I feel like im wasting my time trying to explain.
Cool story how will you know if you cant inspect enemy? seriously the story making on this thread is epic.
I'm afraid I dont understand what "know if you can't expect enemy" means. And this is no story making or whatever, those are facts I know from playing pvp myself and talking to ppl who actually play pvp and are good at it.
E: Ah you meant inspect. You can inspect ppl in pvp if they PM you or say something in chat. That's how I knew his gear.
So now you want all your friggin utilties, the ability to permaroot and permadaze starting from 80' away, and then asking for damage on top of all that as well
...all the while your kind had spent so much effort into slandering and crapping on Scoundrel TRs during mod5. Just no shame. Only a gross double standard.
For the record, seeing the way how basically everyone jumped on the bandwagon to destroy Scoundrel TRs, there's no way anyone is agreeing the HRs need more damage.
HR don't need damage buff only need to fix some bug like root not affect by arp and aspect of the lone wolf at rank 4 give -10% deflect
Don't compare uncounterable TR scroundel in mod 5 equal with trapper HR mod 6 you seriusly need l2p
You know another bug on TR? 2s reveal no longer exist and this need fix as well