Fox's cunning only allows HR dodge power's damage not cc effect. A simple repel would send the poor HR across the map and mess up his/her rotation badly (their cds only reduced when they hit target(s)).
As if I didn't have them slotted.
It makes no difference, you'll still be dazed to death, it just takes longer for the HR to kill you. Repel doesn't even repel the HR correctly because of tenacity and deflect.
Beta player
One of the many Control Wizards that misses Shard Of The Endless Avalanche. RIP Shard (Beta-Mod3)
the only thing i know is that im playing with a class that is doing 2k crit in pvp in the best scenario.
i keep to see people shotting dummies...the dummie laughs at me
leave it alone until the damage comes back and other bs cws dc and gf are fixed
HR have perma root+daze+6 encounters.....ohh wait 9 encounter with Swiftness of the Fox feat in trapper tree
and that 3 charge hindering shot? spam it with disruptive shot and HR does not need to worry coz fox cunning cunning/shift
and Marauder's rush/escape will provide back to back invulnerability. Ohh wait HR tab got no ICD so he can spam it hustle free.
Range class in this game have unreasonable advantage over melee class for having so many cc.... that will put another cc on top of it press tab use all 3 encounters and there you go spam the previous 3 again use a cheap encounter to daze and you dont have to worry coz you still have dodges and a long range escape encounter..... easy hustle free class just kill from a distance spam cc and annoy.
Are you talking about HR? It's seems like ninja class to me.. play HR and make some test and stop blabering nonsense because you don't know what you talking about
It makes no difference, you'll still be dazed to death, it just takes longer for the HR to kill you. Repel doesn't even repel the HR correctly because of tenacity and deflect.
A CW who got his 4ss kicked by HR.. you need to l2p buddy
Rofl, it can permanently lock any class that doesn't have a CC breaker if he gets the first hit on you
Telling me to l2p? Go back to farming dungeons PVE boy, this is the PVP section.
Gotta love these random late-joindate forum warriors who are absolutely nothing in-game.
You're a nobody ingame too.
The only thing slightly familiar is your guild tag. Your reputation, or lack thereof, is carried by the tag hanging above your head.
As if being the biggest loudmouth in game makes your opinion any more relevant.
PS your join date is later than mine. By your logic, that makes your opinion irrelevant.
Broken mechanics, broken class designs, lack of actual content, and over zealous, bronze-age moderation?
2 - Give to all other classes a path where, while hitting a target, [ all their CDs are reduced up to 5% per "root" hit + an aditional 15% thanks to "Swiftness of the Fox" + like myself and while it procs, still using "Royal's guard" Set (aditional +30% to all CDs), turning it into a "up to 50% CD reduction" mechanic ] + [ a chance to daze + root + stun + DoT on critical hit ]
Seriously? Are you trolling or what?
If you wear that set in pvp, you will probably get killed by a single boon proc from other players. :rolleyes:
1 - IF my GWF can be "locked" for 4 seconds until he can use "unstop", then, other classes whose has not CC break besides MI TR will suffer from a "locked until HR Player misses his/her rotation"
2 - Give to all other classes a path where, while hitting a target, [ all their CDs are reduced up to 5% per "root" hit + an aditional 15% thanks to "Swiftness of the Fox" + like myself and while it procs, still using "Royal's guard" Set (aditional +30% to all CDs), turning it into a "up to 50% CD reduction" mechanic ] + [ a chance to daze + root + stun + DoT on critical hit ]
I saw GWFs (even myself) hitting for 60ks with IBS, 20ks takedown and, on my own case, hitting for 45Ks with Flourish. BUT, to get those numbers, you need to sweat and get 2 scenarios:
1 - GWF being "totally" empowered (all stacks up) + crit damage + Unstoppable (being Destroyer, not Sentinel)
2 - a "normal debuffed" target.
yet "us" still loses badly vs CWs (obviously), Trapper HRs, GFs, some OPs, DoT + Astral DCs, etc.
For PvE?? yes. For PvP??? no way.
Besides GWF statement, i agree with you. Why i dissagree with your "GWF statement"? Easy explanation: "our" stuns (takedown, Frontline Surge and, to certaing degree, Flourish in some [really] minor/few scenarios) are still defect-able, not taking into this matter the "miss on hit" bug.
sorry, disagree here: ALL THAT STUFF must be gone ALTOGETHER, not "one at a time"...
Mkay so if I get this stright summoning things up a bit.
Gwfs its ok with 60k hit encounters from an cc immune target (I am sure you dont argue for a damage nerf to Gwfs) that just landed a cc on a Hr with no cc immunity.
Its ok for a Cw to land 80 k daily or 60k encounter every 5 sec on a cc Hr with no cc breaker from afar(am also pretty sure the Cws dont argue for less cc or less damage either)
But its not ok for a Hr to cc and land 2k hits until target dies becaus it takes to long time to kill them.
You know what remove the daze all together and give us an encouter that hits for 60 k every 5-6 sec am all for it seams like a fair trade of that should make you happy if I get your reasoning right mkay......
So we are just playing rock Paper Scissors then. And the other four classes will just be coiled to death over and over.Either way there should be some give and some cool down .No class should have the ability to just kill the other without any course of action .If you are not even given the chance to skid out or throw an encounter between the endless spams then whats the point of challenge none it's just defeat . Yesterday I was coiled in a vine that lasted even after the HR died.And lasted for several seconds on after.Not sure if that was a bug or if there OP powers don't die with them like all of the other classes do.
Yea for dotts die with Sw/Dc or no they dont eum dotts done die with any class oh wait anthing already triggered and in effect dont die with the death of the caster so to answer wrong again.
Its a HUGE differance here that applay;
Cw can cc and kill you in seconds
Gwf can cc and kill you in seconds
Gf can cc chain kill you in seconds
Tr can cc and kill you in seconds
Sw can yea well even if they can lets leave them out atm
Hr will daze you root you and being left alone eventually wear you down but we are not doing something the other classes cant do but we do make it ALOT slower.
You all should go play Hr in todays NW and then come back and tell us that you still want to nerf the class compared to the others because frankly those that complain about daze most certainly dont advocate the nerfing of their own classes.....
So we are just playing rock Paper Scissors then. And the other four classes will just be coiled to death over and over.Either way there should be some give and some cool down .No class should have the ability to just kill the other without any course of action .If you are not even given the chance to skid out or throw an encounter between the endless spams then whats the point of challenge none it's just defeat . Yesterday I was coiled in a vine that lasted even after the HR died.And lasted for several seconds on after.Not sure if that was a bug or if there OP powers don't die with them like all of the other classes do.
1) there is a way to retaliate... daze is not permanent (this is one of the greatest difference between this and the old TR permadaze) is it is lot of short daze with dead time in between... not enough time to use long animation (if the HR keep up the rotation well and has an above avarage crit rate...) but enough to use quick one (like repell for cw for example) or one of those that make you immune during casting (a few daily have this specific ability) or counter with a quick cc (like bullrash or the above mentioned repell)... so no... is not unbreakable combo like the permaKD...
2) the only root that outlast the death of HR is plant growth... it last for 6 seconds (before cc resistance power is tanken into account) but it also is break on damage (the treshold for the break is quite low but it doesn't break out of it's own dot... so if you'r only suffering from it it will last the full duration but one or 2 attack from either the HR or someone else will break it)
3) aside from HR and ranged classes (CW, SW and DC) all other either have a CC immunity(GF with daily) or CC break+immunity... so only half the classes really SUFFER this combo and the class itself is one of those... also to those that doesn't know about it... if you are a GF or OP and you rise your shield/sanctuary while under the effect of the root (the short gap between a daze and the otehr should be enough if the ranger is not running on a crit spree ^^) you will immediatly cancel the root (and the linked damage... well the damage from root is actualy bugged and don't take into account armor pen so it really is not that big deal ^^')
4) to those that say "I can only hit HR once in a while and that hit got dodged due to fox cunning"... learn your opponent skill pls... fox cunning dodge only the DAMAGE component of the attack, any CC are applied at full power (also it seem like dodge automatically exclude deflect so the cc duration can't be shortened due to deflect ^^').. If you wast your chance for a counter attack to deal damage rather than using a CC that will break his combo is your fault ^^
5) HR damage is between avarage and low... and the skill set that is required for the combo is even lower than what the avarage HR would use (in fact you have to us constricting arrow.. that is an avarage hit on ranged and really low hit in melee) that means that HR by himself will take time to kill a target... that time open up to retaliation (unless as said before you try to your long cast time ability...) or mess up (if you mess up even a little the combo will be broken... and once broken it get hard to build it up again since HR need to land EVERY hit in order to get the CD reduction to the right amount...)
all in all... the root+daze combo is quite strong... not as strong as many make it sound but still quite strong... unfortunately is also the only weapon avaible to the HR at the moment... between bugged abilites and the pitifull damage of its encounters (really... if HR encounter were on the same level as those from other classes HR wouldn't have any need for this CC combo at all but I've never heard somone cry for an HR hitting him for anything above 10k... maybe 20k with a daily... while debuffed...)... at the moment HR does his best as a support/controller... he controls the enemy and let CW/GWF do the killing... if you pair an HR with a REAL dps than you will see lot of blood... unfortunately... the HR main role should be that of the striker... but since we can't cover our role we have to make do with pointing evetying on our secondary one ^^'
Devs rebuilt all trees but its now not compared in mod6 to anothers classes. We can gain high defensive capatibilies but 1 mistake then you have CC and if you dont have active DoTs suddenly you dead. Roots for mod 4-5 was good because 200% weapon damage compare with enemies HP. So, im not surprised when HRs dazing you every time because its anti-mechanism cc something similar to CC-breaker. Just pseudo "perma" daze+root with high burst. HRs need again improves for striker/tank playstyle.
Gwfs its ok with 60k hit encounters from an cc immune target (I am sure you dont argue for a damage nerf to Gwfs) that just landed a cc on a Hr with no cc immunity.
- GWF is immune to CC as long as he is sprinting. And sprint builds up slowly and is not CC-immune at the start. Which means, for example, that if you use your brain a little and wait for GWF to reach you/ reach FLS range, then dodge, or when he reaches you to SS again you dodge then CC, you have a 50-50 chance to catch him out of sprint. Just use your brain and don't throw encounters at him brainlessly.
- GWF CC is one, FLS (other slots are for daggers 40% buff and only nuke aka IBS), can be deflected by HR and if that happens (a lot), it's nullified. IBS depends on FLS stun to land and if the stun is dodged (GWF aiming or timing it wrong) or deflected (happens a lot vs HRs and TRs who have high deflect chance), you have no visual indication to tell that. So you fire your IBS and if the stun got deflected, it will be dodged cause IBS animation lasts LONGER than a deflected FLS stun.
- To land a 60k IBS vs a toon in PvP gear you need, as a GWF destroyer, to:
lose lots of HP to go unstoppable
land 10 hits or 3 plaguefire hits in 4-8 seconds to collect DP stacks
hit with SS to build up FD stacks (3)
shoot first daggers for 40% buff (power with long animation AND knockback effect)
mark the target with TR
then land your FLS flawlessly in the few seconds you have all the stacks up, and hope it does not get deflected to eventually land your IBS
Even so, 60k hits or more happen on debuffed toons only or toon in no PvP gear AND you must not be debuffed by terror/PF/other debuffs.
All this on a DPS build which dies quite fast and can only moderately tank if you have defensive boons and full PvP gear.
To get facts straight, you know. Cause what you wrote makes it seems like it's easy to play a PvP destroyer or build up damage, and makes it look like FLS deflectable stun is reliable while it's more the times HRs/TRs deflect it then the opposite.
I play HR too but since mod6 launch i've been busy with my GWF main so could not test the class yet. From a GWF point of view my impression so far is that HRs can sure CC a lot and have strong DPS but so far didn't seem OP to me. You can fight back and dodge roots usually.
HR in general is a class that requires some skill to play effectively.
Absolutely no one knows who you are in-game, no one.
"N7 Shadow - Whisperknife TR" says everything about your in-game performance.
I'll just let things happen, another WK TR, just like you, was trashtalking on the forums, but once we met in the game, things were different. The same thing will happen to you.
Beta player
One of the many Control Wizards that misses Shard Of The Endless Avalanche. RIP Shard (Beta-Mod3)
Absolutely no one knows who you are in-game, no one.
"N7 Shadow - Whisperknife TR" says everything about your in-game performance.
I'll just let things happen, another WK TR, just like you, was trashtalking on the forums, but once we met in the game, things were different. The same thing will happen to you.
lol, what next you will brag about beating an SW in PvP?
To get facts straight, you know. Cause what you wrote makes it seems like it's easy to play a PvP destroyer or build up damage, and makes it look like FLS deflectable stun is reliable while it's more the times HRs/TRs deflect it then the opposite.
As I happend to play Gwf also I can tell you its easy once your combos enter your muscles memory and you see your target its all about timing and game knowledge about the class you are going after.
- To land a 60k IBS vs a toon in PvP gear you need, as a GWF destroyer, to:
lose lots of HP to go unstoppable
land 10 hits or 3 plaguefire hits in 4-8 seconds to collect DP stacks
hit with SS to build up FD stacks (3)
shoot first daggers for 40% buff (power with long animation AND knockback effect)
mark the target with TR
then land your FLS flawlessly in the few seconds you have all the stacks up, and hope it does not get deflected to eventually land your IBS
Dont make it look like its rocket science its easy either you land cc or you dont, once cc lands IBS follows. Being able to burst sprint and use unstop to make sure your able to land hits helps ofc.
Now the Gwf I fought with my 97 k hp 35% defl 18% resist 42% Tenas Hr he had lostmouth blue gear blue lvl 70 weapon/offhand, lifedrinker as weapon ench and still landed 60k hits with 30k stuns. He was far from bis geared but a very experianced pvper.
In a mass fight Hr becomes better for two reasons 1 Cw is a higher priority target so is Gf Sw 2 You can keep distance and still deliver damage.
But against Gwfs today one miss dodge is more or less game over while it takes f-king forever to kill a Gwf with lifesteal due to inferior dps as a Hr.
From my experience so far CR has been a very annoying class feature to fight against since once the cc begins you have to pray you are not crit any further and/or have a cc breaker(class feature/encounter/oghmas) to make sure you can get out of it. But if CR does get an ICD you will see that the current perma dazing that occurs to disappear and show possible weakness in the class this module. This subject on CR is a seesaw at the moment due to the feeling that without CR the hr will lose any potential since most classes have procs to help them as well.
Since this mod started it is turning more and more into a proc/dot fest where getting the most pps(procs per second) wins an exchange.
I will say that more HRs should add their input on this subject since they can easily see when using CR and not using CR can have different results.
EDIT: I Should have been more specific on this when asking for more input as in doing rotations with and without CR instead of theorizing between current and a possible nerf on the class feature. As to show the need the importance it provides hrs in the current mod.
From my experience so far CR has been a very annoying class feature to fight against since once the cc begins you have to pray you are not crit any further and/or have a cc breaker(class feature/encounter/oghmas) to make sure you can get out of it. But if CR does get an ICD you will see that the current perma dazing that occurs to disappear and show possible weakness in the class this module. This subject on CR is a seesaw at the moment due to the feeling that without CR the hr will lose any potential since most classes have procs to help them as well.
Since this mod started it is turning more and more into a proc/dot fest where getting the most pps(procs per second) wins an exchange.
I will say that more HRs should add their input on this subject since they can easily see when using CR and not using CR can have different results.
there have been plenty of HR reply in this tread... as almost all HR have said... without CR or with an ICD on CR hr will die... the reason is that HR damage is... well I can't really find the word for it... and this is partialy due to a bug that cous thorned root (the feat that apply a damage over time on our roots that tick 200% weapon damage every second) to not being affected by armor penetration... that translate in a really marginal damage... at the same time HR encounter power doesn't have a real high damage (with the exception of cordon/plant growth... that have actualy TWICE OR MORE the damage of every other HR encounter... and are just barely in line with most of other classes encounter power ^^')
with this as many HR have said... it's not like we don't want to loose CR at all cost... but simply that if we lose that without getting something else we'r just dead meat ^^'
also there have been a good number of exageration on the effectivnes of CR... that while it REALLY is a an extremely good class feature it is not what many think of it (there are actualy way to get free of the combo even without a cc break unless you'r facing an 80%+ crit chance ranger ^^' and actualy out of 8 class in this game 4 actualy HAVE a CC breake/long duration immunity)... and even more in order to get ful advantage of it the HR actualy have to slot powers that have a deium/low damage even for HR standard... (that is why people FEEL the perma daze... because they are actualy rooted in place for SEVERAL seconds... while if they were in same position against any other class they would have died within a FEW seconds...)
an HR not using CR is either going for a sniper like build (pretty cool... but when it come to effectivness is really low... not that it CAN'T be effective... but it surely is not something that can be called GOOD) or are just trapper that go in the middle of the enemy... spam their skill and hope to leech a kill out of some REAL dps... and we are pretty good at that since we hit fast and often aoe... our damage by themself are not enough to kill the enemy but they can be enough to kill that player left at 10% by the CW spike ^^... other than that we are good to root enemy into opressive force or smoke bomb... but wait... that is exactly the effect of us using CR ^^' (actualy is stronger since those are actualy CONTINUOUS daze compared with small duration chained daze that actualy leave some opening)
- GWF is immune to CC as long as he is sprinting. And sprint builds up slowly and is not CC-immune at the start. Which means, for example, that if you use your brain a little and wait for GWF to reach you/ reach FLS range, then dodge, or when he reaches you to SS again you dodge then CC, you have a 50-50 chance to catch him out of sprint. Just use your brain and don't throw encounters at him brainlessly.
- GWF CC is one, FLS (other slots are for daggers 40% buff and only nuke aka IBS), can be deflected by HR and if that happens (a lot), it's nullified. IBS depends on FLS stun to land and if the stun is dodged (GWF aiming or timing it wrong) or deflected (happens a lot vs HRs and TRs who have high deflect chance), you have no visual indication to tell that. So you fire your IBS and if the stun got deflected, it will be dodged cause IBS animation lasts LONGER than a deflected FLS stun.
- To land a 60k IBS vs a toon in PvP gear you need, as a GWF destroyer, to:
lose lots of HP to go unstoppable
land 10 hits or 3 plaguefire hits in 4-8 seconds to collect DP stacks
hit with SS to build up FD stacks (3)
shoot first daggers for 40% buff (power with long animation AND knockback effect)
mark the target with TR
then land your FLS flawlessly in the few seconds you have all the stacks up, and hope it does not get deflected to eventually land your IBS
Even so, 60k hits or more happen on debuffed toons only or toon in no PvP gear AND you must not be debuffed by terror/PF/other debuffs.
All this on a DPS build which dies quite fast and can only moderately tank if you have defensive boons and full PvP gear.
To get facts straight, you know. Cause what you wrote makes it seems like it's easy to play a PvP destroyer or build up damage, and makes it look like FLS deflectable stun is reliable while it's more the times HRs/TRs deflect it then the opposite.
I play HR too but since mod6 launch i've been busy with my GWF main so could not test the class yet. From a GWF point of view my impression so far is that HRs can sure CC a lot and have strong DPS but so far didn't seem OP to me. You can fight back and dodge roots usually.
HR in general is a class that requires some skill to play effectively.
A little sidenote :
Party] Pimpalotahoes@romanporter: Combat (Self)] Critical Hit! Your Indomitable Battle Strike deals 96976 (121220) Physical Damage to Rusian Dragon.
I haven't read all the posts, but I find the fixation on Roots kind of strange. I'm a Trapper. Have always been a Trapper. And the only thing really good about being a Trapper is the speed in which you can rotate through encounters. Roots are great in PvE. But only against lesser critters. And even then a Trapper is not going to have the DPS of other classes. In PvP, Roots are pretty much negated. Meaning, a Trapper just doesn't do much damage. And is among the squishier classes. I've dutifully slotted my Crushing Roots, and I can't tell that they do much. Am wondering if I should replace it with Aspect of the Serpent.
Just an example of what it is like to use Roots. Went up against a TR yesterday and got my head handed to me. Clearly he was immune. Nailed him multiple times and he didn't as much as pause. Between Tenacity and other CC immunities, Roots can be rendered practically useless.
Yesterday I was coiled in a vine that lasted even after the HR died.And lasted for several seconds on after.Not sure if that was a bug or if there OP powers don't die with them like all of the other classes do.
Nothing buggy about this at all. Ancient Roots are DOT. Same as poison. Same as bleeding out. What makes Roots not all that great is that it takes time. And often by the time it does the job, the Trapper is dead.
Can you tell us your build, level, how much the target was debuffed, how much were you buffed, etc, etc, etc?? That would be nice to know.
Normal pvp potions destro build life drinker marked debuffed by dc - target pal with circle up when hit.
90k+ hits from ibs all the time with life drinker 30-40k with take down mind with a lifedrinker weapon ench(leg lvl70 though).
Comments
As if I didn't have them slotted.
It makes no difference, you'll still be dazed to death, it just takes longer for the HR to kill you. Repel doesn't even repel the HR correctly because of tenacity and deflect.
One of the many Control Wizards that misses Shard Of The Endless Avalanche. RIP Shard (Beta-Mod3)
i keep to see people shotting dummies...the dummie laughs at me
leave it alone until the damage comes back and other bs cws dc and gf are fixed
Are you talking about HR? It's seems like ninja class to me.. play HR and make some test and stop blabering nonsense because you don't know what you talking about
A CW who got his 4ss kicked by HR.. you need to l2p buddy
Rofl, it can permanently lock any class that doesn't have a CC breaker if he gets the first hit on you
Telling me to l2p? Go back to farming dungeons PVE boy, this is the PVP section.
Gotta love these random late-joindate forum warriors who are absolutely nothing in-game.
One of the many Control Wizards that misses Shard Of The Endless Avalanche. RIP Shard (Beta-Mod3)
You're a nobody ingame too.
The only thing slightly familiar is your guild tag. Your reputation, or lack thereof, is carried by the tag hanging above your head.
As if being the biggest loudmouth in game makes your opinion any more relevant.
PS your join date is later than mine. By your logic, that makes your opinion irrelevant.
Go Cryptic!
PS - I quit.
Seriously? Are you trolling or what?
If you wear that set in pvp, you will probably get killed by a single boon proc from other players. :rolleyes:
Mkay so if I get this stright summoning things up a bit.
Gwfs its ok with 60k hit encounters from an cc immune target (I am sure you dont argue for a damage nerf to Gwfs) that just landed a cc on a Hr with no cc immunity.
Its ok for a Cw to land 80 k daily or 60k encounter every 5 sec on a cc Hr with no cc breaker from afar(am also pretty sure the Cws dont argue for less cc or less damage either)
But its not ok for a Hr to cc and land 2k hits until target dies becaus it takes to long time to kill them.
You know what remove the daze all together and give us an encouter that hits for 60 k every 5-6 sec am all for it seams like a fair trade of that should make you happy if I get your reasoning right mkay......
But
Its a HUGE differance here that applay;
Cw can cc and kill you in seconds
Gwf can cc and kill you in seconds
Gf can cc chain kill you in seconds
Tr can cc and kill you in seconds
Sw can yea well even if they can lets leave them out atm
Hr will daze you root you and being left alone eventually wear you down but we are not doing something the other classes cant do but we do make it ALOT slower.
You all should go play Hr in todays NW and then come back and tell us that you still want to nerf the class compared to the others because frankly those that complain about daze most certainly dont advocate the nerfing of their own classes.....
1) there is a way to retaliate... daze is not permanent (this is one of the greatest difference between this and the old TR permadaze) is it is lot of short daze with dead time in between... not enough time to use long animation (if the HR keep up the rotation well and has an above avarage crit rate...) but enough to use quick one (like repell for cw for example) or one of those that make you immune during casting (a few daily have this specific ability) or counter with a quick cc (like bullrash or the above mentioned repell)... so no... is not unbreakable combo like the permaKD...
2) the only root that outlast the death of HR is plant growth... it last for 6 seconds (before cc resistance power is tanken into account) but it also is break on damage (the treshold for the break is quite low but it doesn't break out of it's own dot... so if you'r only suffering from it it will last the full duration but one or 2 attack from either the HR or someone else will break it)
3) aside from HR and ranged classes (CW, SW and DC) all other either have a CC immunity(GF with daily) or CC break+immunity... so only half the classes really SUFFER this combo and the class itself is one of those... also to those that doesn't know about it... if you are a GF or OP and you rise your shield/sanctuary while under the effect of the root (the short gap between a daze and the otehr should be enough if the ranger is not running on a crit spree ^^) you will immediatly cancel the root (and the linked damage... well the damage from root is actualy bugged and don't take into account armor pen so it really is not that big deal ^^')
4) to those that say "I can only hit HR once in a while and that hit got dodged due to fox cunning"... learn your opponent skill pls... fox cunning dodge only the DAMAGE component of the attack, any CC are applied at full power (also it seem like dodge automatically exclude deflect so the cc duration can't be shortened due to deflect ^^').. If you wast your chance for a counter attack to deal damage rather than using a CC that will break his combo is your fault ^^
5) HR damage is between avarage and low... and the skill set that is required for the combo is even lower than what the avarage HR would use (in fact you have to us constricting arrow.. that is an avarage hit on ranged and really low hit in melee) that means that HR by himself will take time to kill a target... that time open up to retaliation (unless as said before you try to your long cast time ability...) or mess up (if you mess up even a little the combo will be broken... and once broken it get hard to build it up again since HR need to land EVERY hit in order to get the CD reduction to the right amount...)
all in all... the root+daze combo is quite strong... not as strong as many make it sound but still quite strong... unfortunately is also the only weapon avaible to the HR at the moment... between bugged abilites and the pitifull damage of its encounters (really... if HR encounter were on the same level as those from other classes HR wouldn't have any need for this CC combo at all but I've never heard somone cry for an HR hitting him for anything above 10k... maybe 20k with a daily... while debuffed...)... at the moment HR does his best as a support/controller... he controls the enemy and let CW/GWF do the killing... if you pair an HR with a REAL dps than you will see lot of blood... unfortunately... the HR main role should be that of the striker... but since we can't cover our role we have to make do with pointing evetying on our secondary one ^^'
- GWF is immune to CC as long as he is sprinting. And sprint builds up slowly and is not CC-immune at the start. Which means, for example, that if you use your brain a little and wait for GWF to reach you/ reach FLS range, then dodge, or when he reaches you to SS again you dodge then CC, you have a 50-50 chance to catch him out of sprint. Just use your brain and don't throw encounters at him brainlessly.
- GWF CC is one, FLS (other slots are for daggers 40% buff and only nuke aka IBS), can be deflected by HR and if that happens (a lot), it's nullified. IBS depends on FLS stun to land and if the stun is dodged (GWF aiming or timing it wrong) or deflected (happens a lot vs HRs and TRs who have high deflect chance), you have no visual indication to tell that. So you fire your IBS and if the stun got deflected, it will be dodged cause IBS animation lasts LONGER than a deflected FLS stun.
- To land a 60k IBS vs a toon in PvP gear you need, as a GWF destroyer, to:
lose lots of HP to go unstoppable
land 10 hits or 3 plaguefire hits in 4-8 seconds to collect DP stacks
hit with SS to build up FD stacks (3)
shoot first daggers for 40% buff (power with long animation AND knockback effect)
mark the target with TR
then land your FLS flawlessly in the few seconds you have all the stacks up, and hope it does not get deflected to eventually land your IBS
Even so, 60k hits or more happen on debuffed toons only or toon in no PvP gear AND you must not be debuffed by terror/PF/other debuffs.
All this on a DPS build which dies quite fast and can only moderately tank if you have defensive boons and full PvP gear.
To get facts straight, you know. Cause what you wrote makes it seems like it's easy to play a PvP destroyer or build up damage, and makes it look like FLS deflectable stun is reliable while it's more the times HRs/TRs deflect it then the opposite.
I play HR too but since mod6 launch i've been busy with my GWF main so could not test the class yet. From a GWF point of view my impression so far is that HRs can sure CC a lot and have strong DPS but so far didn't seem OP to me. You can fight back and dodge roots usually.
HR in general is a class that requires some skill to play effectively.
Absolutely no one knows who you are in-game, no one.
"N7 Shadow - Whisperknife TR" says everything about your in-game performance.
I'll just let things happen, another WK TR, just like you, was trashtalking on the forums, but once we met in the game, things were different. The same thing will happen to you.
One of the many Control Wizards that misses Shard Of The Endless Avalanche. RIP Shard (Beta-Mod3)
lol, what next you will brag about beating an SW in PvP?
As I happend to play Gwf also I can tell you its easy once your combos enter your muscles memory and you see your target its all about timing and game knowledge about the class you are going after.
Dont make it look like its rocket science its easy either you land cc or you dont, once cc lands IBS follows. Being able to burst sprint and use unstop to make sure your able to land hits helps ofc.
Now the Gwf I fought with my 97 k hp 35% defl 18% resist 42% Tenas Hr he had lostmouth blue gear blue lvl 70 weapon/offhand, lifedrinker as weapon ench and still landed 60k hits with 30k stuns. He was far from bis geared but a very experianced pvper.
In a mass fight Hr becomes better for two reasons 1 Cw is a higher priority target so is Gf Sw 2 You can keep distance and still deliver damage.
But against Gwfs today one miss dodge is more or less game over while it takes f-king forever to kill a Gwf with lifesteal due to inferior dps as a Hr.
Since this mod started it is turning more and more into a proc/dot fest where getting the most pps(procs per second) wins an exchange.
I will say that more HRs should add their input on this subject since they can easily see when using CR and not using CR can have different results.
EDIT: I Should have been more specific on this when asking for more input as in doing rotations with and without CR instead of theorizing between current and a possible nerf on the class feature. As to show the need the importance it provides hrs in the current mod.
there have been plenty of HR reply in this tread... as almost all HR have said... without CR or with an ICD on CR hr will die... the reason is that HR damage is... well I can't really find the word for it... and this is partialy due to a bug that cous thorned root (the feat that apply a damage over time on our roots that tick 200% weapon damage every second) to not being affected by armor penetration... that translate in a really marginal damage... at the same time HR encounter power doesn't have a real high damage (with the exception of cordon/plant growth... that have actualy TWICE OR MORE the damage of every other HR encounter... and are just barely in line with most of other classes encounter power ^^')
with this as many HR have said... it's not like we don't want to loose CR at all cost... but simply that if we lose that without getting something else we'r just dead meat ^^'
also there have been a good number of exageration on the effectivnes of CR... that while it REALLY is a an extremely good class feature it is not what many think of it (there are actualy way to get free of the combo even without a cc break unless you'r facing an 80%+ crit chance ranger ^^' and actualy out of 8 class in this game 4 actualy HAVE a CC breake/long duration immunity)... and even more in order to get ful advantage of it the HR actualy have to slot powers that have a deium/low damage even for HR standard... (that is why people FEEL the perma daze... because they are actualy rooted in place for SEVERAL seconds... while if they were in same position against any other class they would have died within a FEW seconds...)
an HR not using CR is either going for a sniper like build (pretty cool... but when it come to effectivness is really low... not that it CAN'T be effective... but it surely is not something that can be called GOOD) or are just trapper that go in the middle of the enemy... spam their skill and hope to leech a kill out of some REAL dps... and we are pretty good at that since we hit fast and often aoe... our damage by themself are not enough to kill the enemy but they can be enough to kill that player left at 10% by the CW spike ^^... other than that we are good to root enemy into opressive force or smoke bomb... but wait... that is exactly the effect of us using CR ^^' (actualy is stronger since those are actualy CONTINUOUS daze compared with small duration chained daze that actualy leave some opening)
A little sidenote :
Party] Pimpalotahoes@romanporter: Combat (Self)] Critical Hit! Your Indomitable Battle Strike deals 96976 (121220) Physical Damage to Rusian Dragon.
Just an example of what it is like to use Roots. Went up against a TR yesterday and got my head handed to me. Clearly he was immune. Nailed him multiple times and he didn't as much as pause. Between Tenacity and other CC immunities, Roots can be rendered practically useless.
That's nice, sweetheart.
Come hunt me down in game and screenshot every time you kill me so you can brag about your godlike accomplishments.
Go Cryptic!
PS - I quit.
1s duration with every 5s ICD. Should be well enough.
Normal pvp potions destro build life drinker marked debuffed by dc - target pal with circle up when hit.
90k+ hits from ibs all the time with life drinker 30-40k with take down mind with a lifedrinker weapon ench(leg lvl70 though).