No i m just pointing out that stormspell is ******ed.
It should not crit or benefit from other bonuses like chilling presence etc etc.
When it procs off at wills and hit up to 25k in pvp it starts to be a problem.
25k is a damage that should come out from encounters!
And dont say you lack general damage without it!
Cws have the higher recharge speed coupled with the lowest basic cooldowns and a good set of single target powers with high base damage. If this is not enough put a good 80 percent more in mod 6 from chilling presence with auto maxed stacks
.
Storm spell should not hit more than 5k really.
Lets see your utility powers...repel... you know i just got hit by a 15k repel? Utility... at least is an encounter
First: I already stated that Intimidation doing that massive damage for Tank path is senseless. Tanks can make their dailies and new content in solo mode, so, do not worry about that (tested with a level 60 to level 62 SM Sent GWF and i handle everything bug game crashes with not a lot of difficult...) but, sorry, i though we were talking about PvP, not PvE... ^^U
I am talking about PVE. I do not care about PVP. And testing a character only to lvl 62 in preview server is not getting the full picture of the brutal stat curves at lvl 70.
Beg your pardon? Do you mean things like that one?? Sorry, what were you saying about "taking me seriously"??
I'm talking about passives, not bugged encounters.
How about the HR *heroic* feat Lucky Skirmisher that grants 3% more Deflection chance (available to all HR's), plus Combat feat Fluid Hunter that grants 2.5% Deflection chance, plus the Aspect of the Lone Wolf class feature, plus the Deflect bonus from HR primary attributes, you can get an HR that has even more Deflect than tanky classes. Where is the "OMG" outrage?
CW gets the brunt of the hate, though, for some inexplicable reason, for having a shield that grants an additional 5% DR most of the time....
I will say this: I've played with Storm Spell for a fair amount of time in module 5. It's very, very second rate. CW damage like that *was* pitifully low. One of the problems with trying alternative setups is that there's too much synergy between Storm Spell and Chilling Presence with renegades compared to any other combination of class features.
However, the fact that you play a trapper HR and continue to complain about Storm Spell just seems rather hypocritical. Ray of Frost with spam with Storm Spell doesn't miss and can tick for massive damage and will cc targets fast. HR Roots can't miss, will tick for massive damage and will instantly cc targets. It's the same thing except the roots require an encounter power, and HRs can apply them from stealth, for more consistent damage.
roots damage ticks overtime, dont always crit, dont stack and dont proc of at wills otherwise i would complain more about it too.
edit: for some reason ranger stealth do not apply combat advantage anymore since mod 4
Balance is also a fairly complicated issue. I don't like the huge reliance CWs have on Storm Spell currently, but if you simply nerfed it, CWs might still be a fine class in PvE, but they'd be at the bottom of the pile in PvP. Likewise for Shield; the main reason Shield got boosted was that CWs needed more survivability in PvP. And they still need that.
The PvP vs PvE balance issues are never going to end until they make powers work differently from one mode to the other in terms of damage/effects. "Half as effective in PvP' just doesn't cut it, at all, it's a wild sledge hammer attempt at balance instead of using fully balanced numbers.
For PvE, there are other concerns too. Part of the reason CWs are too strong on Live as it is, is because the major dungeons are almost all designed in ways that make CW roles dominant. The role of a striker is to do the most damage against single, large targets (i.e. killing bosses), but the content is mostly massive groups of adds that CWs can cc and AoE DPS to death. More recent content has changed away from this model, though. The problem here is largely contextual -- if every dungeon only consisted of fighting bosses and huge cc-immune monsters like fire giants, CWs would mainly be useful to bring along as support debuff bots.
AoE damage is part of the CW's role as a controller, this is not an issue, the issue is the damage output especially from storm spell. As I've stated before, the content issue affects multiple classes such as a healing DC, and at the same time there needs to be variety in content, as well as multiple immune types to create a need for multiple classes. if everything could simply be CC'd to death, no one would need a tank or a healer for example, hence immune mobs.
Also, you should not be effective against your immunity. In this case a CW should not be able to take down a CC immune mob with high amounts of Single target damage because then again, why bring a HR or a TR? Furthremore what is the weak-point now to the CW if it can do AoE damage, CC, and single target, along with the buffs/debuffs if going renegade?
Heavily nerf Storm Spell damage, but increase single-target CW power damage to compensate (an overall reduction could still be warranted here too, if they'd restore tab Shard to usefulness). CWs should retain higher target caps than other classes and overall inflict significantly more damage against large numbers of foes.
Nerf Shield, but give CWs more teleports, and boost some defensive feat options to allow CWs to build more tanky by sacrificing other things.
Nerf the damage of Disintegrate, but build in additional Armor Penetration for it and Magic Missile, and make them also less subject to deflection, to make them especially good against high DR/high deflection targets.
Remove all ability for deflection to resist any form of cc.
#1 - I don;t agree with the single target damage buff since they're:
A - Suppose to have a downside to CC immunes
B - Already very powerful in that area
What I do agree with is the target cap, right now 8 seems far too small for powers such as Singularity. Keep in mind however, any damage buff to X power will help out MoF path, while giving them no downside since they cannot use Storm Spell, so be careful in that regard.
#2 - Im going to say no for the simple reason that people will stop using sheild, insert X power to replace it, and then become more powerful. And again, this leads back to the issue of CW's getting ALL their benefits from passives. I prefer my idea a few pages back where it only last for X attacks then breaks, it makes the spell a much more active approach.
#3 - Disintegrate needs to be nerfed since it deals nearly as much damage as an ice knife with a tiny tiny cool down of around 5-6 seconds. Honestly, since it's a pure damage spell, if the cooldown was increased to match other powers such as Chill Strike, and did slightly less damage, it would be alot more in line.
#4 - Then.....what will counter CC for multiple classes such as SW and HR?
If I had 1 AD for every time someone came to these forums whining "CWs are CONTROLLERS they aren't supposed to deal damage!!!!" then I would have 1,000 Tenser Disks by now.
So while you are good enough to recognize that CWs *are* in fact supposed to deal AOE damage in their role as controllers, most of your fellow CW haters are not. I get the distinct impression that most of the CW haters around here want CWs to be running around just grouping mobs together and casting Singularity all the time, and pretty much nothing else.
Oh, I'm good enough to have my own opinions instead of the one's you make up for me eh? Thanks for that. Secondly you have a love of fallacies, the one you're using this time is the "us against them". Just because someone thinks X class is overpowered or X power is overpowered does not make them a "Cw hater". Seriously, grow up.
For a CW which chooses to spec as pure control via Oppressor, their sources of damage are very limited. There is one feat that boosts damage based on chill (by a whopping 5%, and has an ICD, and was already nerfed once), and then there is Storm Spell. That's pretty much it. GWF Sentinels get the Intimidation feat that massively boosts their damage *from a passive feat*. Even GF Protectors have a feat that directly boosts their at-will damage. Oppressor CWs have nothing comparable.
Name the feat or class feature any other class has which does 40% of their overall damage. I'll be waiting. The only comparable bonus to storm spell is the diabolist set for the SW, which is basically being removed come mod 6.
So if you make life more difficult for Oppressor CWs who choose to go the control path, don't be surprised if very few CWs choose to play in a manner that is unnecessarily difficult. So you and your fellow CW haters will get fewer pure control CWs, not more.
You mean a path that is suppose to control mobs and not deal tons of damage? You mean like how most other classes pick and choose their play-style yet for some reason you think oppressor should be able to control and do massive amounts of damage to the extent that you think ONE feat giving, apparently, 60% of their damage is totally FINE?
And lastly, you have entered into this discussion with an arrogant, haughty attitude, dismissing all arguments even valid ones that contradict your premises, and are basically telling CWs that you know more about the class than we do and we should all just shut up and listen to your wise words. Well forgive us for having a different opinion, and for acting defensively when you enter this discussion with that type of attitude.
They're so many issues with this, it's almost ironic.
- "You dismiss all arguments", You mean like how you've dismissed everything I've said so far and just gone back to your same old argument? Right.
- "We should all listen to you" - There we go, pulling words out of thin air again for fun. I wonder if you even know what a straw-man is, or what it means to put words in people's mouths that literally were never said. Also, fun fact, "all us control wizards" would include me since I actually PLAY the class, but no, don't ask me what classes I play, just make up assumptions and get all mad when I don't agree with you.
- "Acting defensively" , You can be as defensive as you want, it's just pointless, and doesn't give any real feedback, help anyone advance in any form, and it basically creates a hate between classes/players. But no, instead of giving good constructive ideas like myself in my first post and "macjae" as shown above, keep on playing the victim and saying all those mean nasty CW haters are out to get you.
this is what is going to happen, now look at the icons showing buffs...yee all renegades stacking capstones and storm spell will do the rest.
really i cant understand how people can say this to be even remotely wai
perma heals for those saying its unreliable
indeed who was the dead weight there? the GF ! IRONIC
edit: video 2, encounter at 2:15....count the storm spell procs. good luck
Oh, I'm good enough to have my own opinions instead of the one's you make up for me eh? Thanks for that. Secondly you have a love of fallacies, the one you're using this time is the "us against them". Just because someone thinks X class is overpowered or X power is overpowered does not make them a "Cw hater". Seriously, grow up.
It IS "us vs. them" whether you care to admit it or not. This discussion is only about 5% balance, and about 95% agenda-pushing. Right now it is Tribe GWF vs. Tribe CW, apparently. And Tribe CW seems to have a lot of enemies, I believe because some people don't really understand how the class works, but mostly I think it is out of envy. They think that CW's can "do it all" (they can't), and they want to tear that down, even if it makes life harder for themselves.
Name the feat or class feature any other class has which does 40% of their overall damage. I'll be waiting. The only comparable bonus to storm spell is the diabolist set for the SW, which is basically being removed come mod 6.
Maybe none? I don't know, and I don't really care either. The POINT is, if you have pure controller CW, that CW will have very little AOE damage potential and will have to rely on passives in order to have any damage dealing potential at all. Nerfing Storm Spell means nerfing the controller CW that you all claim to want more of.
You mean a path that is suppose to control mobs and not deal tons of damage? You mean like how most other classes pick and choose their play-style yet for some reason you think oppressor should be able to control and do massive amounts of damage to the extent that you think ONE feat giving, apparently, 60% of their damage is totally FINE?
Oppressor CW does not deal "massive" damage. That is the point of the path. So yes, 60% of a small number is still a small number, and is "totally FINE".
Tell me, where should an Oppressor CW get his damage dealing potential from? What feats or powers or encounters do you suggest? Because there is only one Oppressor feat that boosts damage based on chill, and it is a very weak one. The Oppressor capstone feat was already nerfed once due to PVP outrage. The pure controlling encounters have low base damage amounts. The AOE damage encounters, if not feated and boosted by the Thaumaturge/Renegade paths, makes them not OP at all, and somewhat lackluster compared to other classes. I guarantee, all else being equal, a Trapper HR, Fury SW or Righteous DC will out-dps any Oppressor CW even with Storm Spell and even when the CW is using AOE damage dealing encounters.
Tell you what. I will be happy to show you. Name a time and I will copy my 20k CW to the Owlbear preview server (not the Mod 6 one), respec SS Oppressor, throw on an Archmage set, and I will do any IWD or WoD HE with you, on any character of your choosing, and log it with ACT, and then we will see exactly how "OP" Storm Spell is. Deal?
They're so many issues with this, it's almost ironic.
- "You dismiss all arguments", You mean like how you've dismissed everything I've said so far and just gone back to your same old argument? Right.
- "We should all listen to you" - There we go, pulling words out of thin air again for fun. I wonder if you even know what a straw-man is, or what it means to put words in people's mouths that literally were never said. Also, fun fact, "all us control wizards" would include me since I actually PLAY the class, but no, don't ask me what classes I play, just make up assumptions and get all mad when I don't agree with you.
- "Acting defensively" , You can be as defensive as you want, it's just pointless, and doesn't give any real feedback, help anyone advance in any form, and it basically creates a hate between classes/players. But no, instead of giving good constructive ideas like myself in my first post and "macjae" as shown above, keep on playing the victim and saying all those mean nasty CW haters are out to get you.
You have amply demonstrated that you are not here to discuss balance, you are here to push a CW-nerf agenda. Every CW who has attempted to engage you in conversation - ironzerg, aulduron, me - you have dismissed everything that they have said and continued to demand "nerf nerf nerf". Please tell me how your insistent demands for "nerf" helps anyone or give good constructive ideas? Even the ideas that macjae floated out, you rejected those too. You won't accept anything less than your idea of a Storm Spell and Shield nerf, period. What is the point of having this discussion then?
It IS "us vs. them" whether you care to admit it or not. This discussion is only about 5% balance, and about 95% agenda-pushing. Right now it is Tribe GWF vs. Tribe CW, apparently. And Tribe CW seems to have a lot of enemies, I believe because some people don't really understand how the class works, but mostly I think it is out of envy. They think that CW's can "do it all" (they can't), and they want to tear that down, even if it makes life harder for themselves.
And guess what, Im not part of any “tribal”, yet you still feel like treating me as an “enemy of the cw's” even though I have 2 characters that are Cw's. Makes perfect sense. The person making it into a “us vs them” is you, pure and simple.
Maybe none? I don't know, and I don't really care either. The POINT is, if you have pure controller CW, that CW will have very little AOE damage potential and will have to rely on passives in order to have any damage dealing potential at all. Nerfing Storm Spell means nerfing the controller CW that you all claim to want more of.
Back to the “us vs them” I see. So you have no facts to back up what you said, and you “dont care” if anything else is or is not overpowered? Right, you really care about balance (Sarcasm). So if you don;t care then my point stands, give GWF's back their massive , and broken, damage, and give SW's back the ability to gain AP while using tyrant, keep it at 40%, and wonder why no other DPS class will ever be needed.
Oppressor CW does not deal "massive" damage. That is the point of the path. So yes, 60% of a small number is still a small number, and is "totally FINE".
60% is in no definition, shape, form, or reality, a small number. A path that is suppose to control should control, not deal huge amounts of damage, again especially from ONE feat, which you seem to either keep missing or you're just wilfully ignorant. The example has been given to you time and time again, a sentinel tanks, a destroyer does DPS, they don't do both, and yet for some reason you feel the need for oppressor to do both. Too, Bad.
Tell me, where should an Oppressor CW get his damage dealing potential from? What feats or powers or encounters do you suggest? Because there is only one Oppressor feat that boosts damage based on chill, and it is a very weak one. The Oppressor capstone feat was already nerfed once due to PVP outrage. The pure controlling encounters have low base damage amounts. The AOE damage encounters, if not feated and boosted by the Thaumaturge/Renegade paths, makes them not OP at all, and somewhat lackluster compared to other classes. I guarantee, all else being equal, a Trapper HR, Fury SW or Righteous DC will out-dps any Oppressor CW even with Storm Spell and even when the CW is using AOE damage dealing encounters.
A dps class can outdps a control class....and you say that like it's an issue. And that's basically the entire problem trying to argue with you in a nutshell. “I want to do everything”.
Tell you what. I will be happy to show you. Name a time and I will copy my 20k CW to the Owlbear preview server (not the Mod 6 one), respec SS Oppressor, throw on an Archmage set, and I will do any IWD or WoD HE with you, on any character of your choosing, and log it with ACT, and then we will see exactly how "OP" Storm Spell is. Deal?
Go ahead and make some logs then and post them here, and take whoever you want but I have 0 interest in playing with you. Also people have already shown it to be a large part of the DPS of a CW, anywhere from 30% to 40%,
You have amply demonstrated that you are not here to discuss balance, you are here to push a CW-nerf agenda. Every CW who has attempted to engage you in conversation - ironzerg, aulduron, me - you have dismissed everything that they have said and continued to demand "nerf nerf nerf". Please tell me how your insistent demands for "nerf" helps anyone or give good constructive ideas? Even the ideas that macjae floated out, you rejected those too. You won't accept anything less than your idea of a Storm Spell and Shield nerf, period. What is the point of having this discussion then?
Let's see, my ideas so far on the list from both topics have included:
- Make shield a more active spell by having X stacks which weaken per hit from 80%-60%-40%-20%-0% then breaks and needs to be recast
- Adding in multiple damage types so that different classes have different forms of damage resistance allowing CW's to fare better against magical sources and GF/GWF to fare better vs physical sources
- Adding in a variety of dungeons instead of the current ones, allowing a greater form of class diversity allowing people to play different classes and still be needed.
- Adding in the ability to use swap-able quick-bars to allow classes to change from one set of powers to another allowing for example a CW to go from control to single target when needed.
And you, zerg, and multiple others have suggested ....... um.... Oh right, next to nothing. Simply complained that you can't do much against CC immune targets and then go on to quote mine me and misrepresent my argument, stomp your feet, and claim “I hate all CW's” even though I play the class.
Also, me not agreeing with others doesn't make me wrong and any of you right. If 100 people say that 2+2 is 5, and one person says that 2+2 is 4, the one person is right, not the 100.
Let's play your own game, you disagree with me on every front, does that mean you hate anyone that wants CW's nerfed, of in your case “all non-cws”? If so, that makes you a bit of an elitist, and I see no reason to debate with someone that just wants their, only class im assuming at this point, to be fair and balanced. The best part after all this is you've given no suggestions yourself, hypocrite.
While I agree that it would be ideal to separate the effects more between the modes to balance them better, that also creates a wider gulf between different types of content. It's something that would also require some sort of dual spec mode to pull off well.
It would take alot of effort yes, but until something like that is done PvP and PvE cannot be balanced together at the same time, it just doesn't work. One power/class will end up over-performing in PvE and lack in PvP and the cycle of buff/nerfs goes on and on and on.
I don't really necessarily disagree that CW damage output in PvE is too high overall. I don't like the way the class has predominated in that area for such a long time, but I also feel that a lot of that is down to how the content was put together and balanced, and a dearth of new content that keeps pace with player power development (which sadly seems like it may be a deliberate strategy).
Agreed, content is also a major issue. One dungeon per mod so far doesn't help things, there really needs to be a larger variety, otherwise we end up with 1-2 top classes and everyone else just following along.
My personal preference would be to separate the different CW paragon feat paths better in terms of functionality, something along these lines (not necessarily as indicated, just an example):
Oppressor -- control, as is.
Thaumaturge -- AoE damage
Renegade -- single-target damage
That wouldn't allow CWs to be excel at all things at once quite as much, and would give more functional differentiation between Thaumaturge and Renegade.
Which is something many others wish to happen. The main path I believe people have issues with is Renegade, especially because of the capstone. This path allows a CW to pull off way too many roles, the capstone even gives a pretty decent healing power which is madness.
However, I don't think there should be such a thing as a situation in which a class can't contribute, as that would favor very rigid class compositions for the content. A CW should be less effective than a TR at fighting a boss monster to about the same degree as a TR should be less effective than a CW at killing a large group of mobs.
This is more of a content issue in my mind, such as Lostmouth only being a boss. A cw can use alot of single target powers and even debuff with ray of enfeeblement, but it's simply lacking a proper role in that battle. They're no mobs to control, which is the main issue, and HR/TR/SW are far better at dealing with the boss and most of the content in that dungeon. This wouldnt be so bad if there were more than 1 dungeon per mod, such as a dungeon CW is better at than HR, and then 2-3 more dungeons, but as it is, it's again, lacking.
They wouldn't be very strong in terms of single-target damage if Storm Spell gets nerfed down appropriately, and would need some compensation for that to avoid sucking hard in PvP, especially against classes with a lot of cc immunity. But like I've been saying, I think those tools also need to be designed in a way that targets problematic areas especially.
The solution would also need to help MoF since they do not even benefit from the current Storm Spell power level. Again, this could be solved if they spilt PvP and PvE powers/dual spec/etc.
The problem with powers that do not have a target cap is that they favor a gameplay style where you pull as many mobs as you can bear and AoE them down all at once with multiple CWs. I also agree that we obviously can't do a nerf/buff cycle involving Storm Spell and powers without watching the effect on MoF CWs, who sort of languish at the moment.
Which is why Oppressive Force is so popular right now. Depending on the content, 8 could be fine if they're focusing on smaller groups of foes like in Lostmouth, but if it's going to be larger again it should be closer to the 12-15 range for spells like Singularity.
That's how Shield used to work, and no CWs used it then. At the same time, back then, overall damage levels relative to hit points were different, so it wasn't as necessary to have the additional DR. Since then, there have been a lot of ways damage has been boosted for all classes.
Another alternative implementation that could potentially be viable would be if Shield had a number of charges that required being actively triggered to be effective. Rather than popping the Shield to push others away, you hit the key to activate the Shield defense. Of course, that would require some serious effort to get right too.
The other thing is that CWs used to be able to slot four encounters and never used Shield. It was more fun to play that. The way Shield was boosted essentially robbed CWs of their tab feature. Obviously, the type of change we're talking about would have to keep all these things in mind: 1) changing Storm Spell would require somewhat greater single-target damage from spells, but some of that gap would also be closed by four slots being more viable; 2) some of the defensive loss from not slotting Shield would be reduced by potentially having more cc; 3) the overall effect shouldn't be to let CWs become *more* survivable than now, but not less either; Shield should remain a decent option, but not be optimal in nearly every single situation in PvP.
All such changes should also keep in mind CW performance, which is solid all-around currently, but they would very quickly become terrible with a few wrong steps. CWs presently do not win a majority of 1v1s against TRs or HRs at the least, possibly not GWFs either (and GWFs are getting some major boosts which are going to be hard for CWs to deal with), while fights against DCs and GFs can take a very long time. CWs will reliably kill SWs, though.
I do think there are cases where CWs are currently performing too well, but it's also been hard to get reliable tests to see how that will look in module 6. That may be a part of the reason why so many of these threads are filled with annoying fluff -- they're entirely different biases and perceptions of reality clashing on a basis of very slim real evidence for how things will actually look. I and a few other players I know think GWFs may turn out to be excessively tanky, a lot of GWF players are absolutely certain their class will be squishier than a paper bag, but without all the changes even being in, with leveling to 70 and gear bugs, reliable testing is hopeless, so it just turns into pointless bickering.
The Storm Spell combinations will likely remain excessively strong due to CWs being able to stack a lot of crit from features and Charisma. Shield is likely to get even more indispensable with a fourth rank.
The other main issue is testing on shard is a nightmare, especially after their “black hole glitch” turned off a large amount of people who leveled to 70, ESPECIALLY on pallys, so they shot themselves in the foot by not giving the proper tools to actually test said content.
The main issue with shield / storm spell, is that they “need” to be slotted, as in pick anything else and you are far less effective. Whether shield needs to be reworked to have stacks, or they need another option or 2, such as a class feature or another encounter power, it needs to change so that they're more options available. The same goes for storm spell, one feat should not be giving you nearly half of your damage, at all, ever. This makes it impossible to use any other feat and leaves MoF in the dust. Buffing the potential of spells like Shard will end up helping both paths, give more options, and make Cw's less dependent on one power, if at the same time Storm Spell does get tonned down because it's too powerful.
I think that's the idea, to trade off control for raw damage. It's a tool that looks especially useful against high-cc resist classes. What's more bothersome is that it will probably own classes like SW hard, and CWs should not do even better against SWs. I do think it will probably be a prime candidate for an early nerf regardless.
Exactly, the skill itself is fine as a concept, it just does too much damage at the current time and should be toned down. Again, it gives CW's more options for when they're fighting bosses that have no mobs or CC immune targets.
SWs have lousy deflect values to begin with. They can build it up through the Borrowed Time offhand feature, but it's still substantially behind TRs, HRs and GWFs. SWs need additional defensive tools or options of their own regardless in order to become a fully viable PvP class.
And HRs have a decent battery of things they can do already anyway: Dodges (unreliable, admittedly), Disruptive Shot, additional dazes coming in module 6 (which will probably prove disruptive for CWs), Forest Ghost, and a few tricks they can pull with things like Fox' Cunning/Shift and Marauder's. In many cases, it's more a matter of CWs actually having no tools to use against HRs rather than the other way around. There's no way to dodge HR roots. An HR using Forest Ghost can put the roots on a CW without the CW being able to do anything, and can then proceed to daze the CW to keep the CW helpless while the roots tick down. If the HR doesn't have Forest Ghost up, it's a more equalish fight. For archer and combat HRs, matters may be different, but I never see those in PvP anyway unless it's a player who doesn't know and/or care much about PvP.
Whatever man. You insist CWs are hugely broken and need massive nerfs and massive changes. I don't, the CWs who have responded don't, we've provided reasons and arguments why your premise is flawed, and you are unwilling to bend when we don't accept your premise. Then you accuse us of just not offering anything helpful - what we've offered is our opinion and our thoughts on why your premise is flawed. You refuse to listen.
You keep focusing on this 40% number from Spell Storm. Once again - for SS Oppressor CW's, they will need *some* source of AOE damage, just like Sentinel GWFs despite being a tank have a passive source of damage (Intimidation), just like Protector GFs despite being a tank have passives source of damage (Balanced Shield Fighter, Combat Superiority, Trample the Fallen to name a few).
No one has ever claimed that Oppressor CW's should be able to deal "MASSIVE" amounts of damage. No one. That is a strawman you invented. Oppressor CW damage is going to be low, and should be low, relative to other CW's. But it shouldn't be non-existent, either! Sentinel GWFs have Intimidation. Protector GFs have Trample the Fallen. So seriously, where do you think Oppressor CW's should get their source of damage? Please answer this question. You want to nerf Spell Storm, so that's not it. So what then? What should be the Oppressor CW's source of damage? Or do you think they should deal less damage than full-on tanks, despite being a secondary striker class?
And I've glad you have at least acknowledged that your 80% DR claims about CW Shield are baloney - at least acknowledged in the only way that you are going to, by choosing not to even attempt to defend it any longer.
Whatever man. You insist CWs are hugely broken and need massive nerfs and massive changes. I don't, the CWs who have responded don't, we've provided reasons and arguments why your premise is flawed, and you are unwilling to bend when we don't accept your premise. Then you accuse us of just not offering anything helpful - what we've offered is our opinion and our thoughts on why your premise is flawed. You refuse to listen.
You keep focusing on this 40% number from Spell Storm. Once again - for SS Oppressor CW's, they will need *some* source of AOE damage, just like Sentinel GWFs despite being a tank have a passive source of damage (Intimidation), just like Protector GFs despite being a tank have passives source of damage (Balanced Shield Fighter, Combat Superiority, Trample the Fallen to name a few).
No one has ever claimed that Oppressor CW's should be able to deal "MASSIVE" amounts of damage. No one. That is a strawman you invented. Oppressor CW damage is going to be low, and should be low, relative to other CW's. But it shouldn't be non-existent, either! Sentinel GWFs have Intimidation. Protector GFs have Trample the Fallen. So seriously, where do you think Oppressor CW's should get their source of damage? Please answer this question. You want to nerf Spell Storm, so that's not it. So what then? What should be the Oppressor CW's source of damage? Or do you think they should deal less damage than full-on tanks, despite being a secondary striker class?
And I've glad you have at least acknowledged that your 80% DR claims about CW Shield are baloney - at least acknowledged in the only way that you are going to, by choosing not to even attempt to defend it any longer.
Just putting it out there comparing intimidation (adds 125% weapondmg [so like.. 3k or so base] to 2 encounters that have no base dmg and some basic utility) to Stormspell (Class feature adding 40% damage on crit that in many cases does more dps than the combined total of all other damage sources because of the synergy with EotS (100% crit for 4 seconds every 20 secs on any power you wish to use.) is hilarious.
I'm sure that if EotS and Stormspell couldn't be both used at once, there'd be much less hatred about it. or if they didnt synergise as well.
If Steel blitz was a 40% chance to deal extra damage on Crit for GWF/GF, and they had a feature giving 100% crit for 4 seconds also. there'd be just as much rage even though they don't really have much in the way of DoTs that can crit.
Imagine a warlock with Stormspell and EotS as their features... that scares me.
In the end though. this thread was originally about Shield. not stormspell. And although Control wizards do huge damage. I'm more okay with that than I am them being able to facetank and outdps in meele range.
The problem with any "nerf this nerf that" threads, is that the constructive comments / comments with actual data backing them up are ignored, and the weaker QQ ones are the ones that get targetted and shot down. happens in loads of games, and not just for Control wiz.
this is what is going to happen, now look at the icons showing buffs...yee all renegades stacking capstones and storm spell will do the rest.
really i cant understand how people can say this to be even remotely wai
perma heals for those saying its unreliable
indeed who was the dead weight there? the GF ! IRONIC
edit: video 2, encounter at 2:15....count the storm spell procs. good luck
Umm what excactly are we soupposed to see? Granted i only saw gray wolf den 1, but all that showed was a party of 4 cws and 1 gf wiping over and over, against the boss, despite them trying to exploit it(while being a member of the legit community, no less...)?? Even with 4 CW's in the party the so called perma heals you are talking about, wasnt even close to being enough to keep the GF alive(or any1 els for that matter) during the boss fight... Not really seeing what the problem is?
Ohh yeah just saw a bit of den 3, and i can see they managed to kill the ****er, not sure how excactly maybe their exploit worked better this time around??
Anyway yeah storm spell procs a lot at 2:15, with 4 cws in the party?? Are we really having a discussion about whatever cws are to OP to clear trash mobs that aint CC immun??
are you obsessed or something i havent said nerfing CWs would help melee class survive rofl.
i just simply said melee class have no place in mod 6 content.
Dunno was probaly your 200 posts about how broken OP CW's are atm, that gave me that impression... Anyway if Melee classes really go Down that easy in mod 6(not really convinced, that gf in the video, have some really ****ty equipment...) they of course need a boost, since they def. need to be a bit more viable than that gf. However do keep in mind, that 99 % of the all the encounters use atm, to proc spellstorm also does require us to be in melee range, so you are not the only ones who is going to suffer:)
Whatever man. You insist CWs are hugely broken and need massive nerfs and massive changes. I don't, the CWs who have responded don't, we've provided reasons and arguments why your premise is flawed, and you are unwilling to bend when we don't accept your premise. Then you accuse us of just not offering anything helpful - what we've offered is our opinion and our thoughts on why your premise is flawed. You refuse to listen.
I'll bite. Explain to me very simply why you think that One feature should be able to do 40% of a classes DPS. Until then, I'm going to say what I've said before, it needs to be changed so that other builds are more viable than “slot storm spell and face tank”. Furthermore, you keep deflecting to “Cw's” being OP, when the issue is 2 powers, Shield and Storm Spell, one of which is only avaible to a certain paragon.
You keep focusing on this 40% number from Spell Storm. Once again - for SS Oppressor CW's, they will need *some* source of AOE damage, just like Sentinel GWFs despite being a tank have a passive source of damage (Intimidation), just like Protector GFs despite being a tank have passives source of damage (Balanced Shield Fighter, Combat Superiority, Trample the Fallen to name a few).
Because both of those powers do 40% of their damage, right? Oh wait, they don't. Any other bad justification you got going? Because once again, no one is saying delete storm spell from the game, they're saying to reduce the damage.
No one has ever claimed that Oppressor CW's should be able to deal "MASSIVE" amounts of damage. No one. That is a strawman you invented. Oppressor CW damage is going to be low, and should be low, relative to other CW's. But it shouldn't be non-existent, either! Sentinel GWFs have Intimidation. Protector GFs have Trample the Fallen. So seriously, where do you think Oppressor CW's should get their source of damage? Please answer this question. You want to nerf Spell Storm, so that's not it. So what then? What should be the Oppressor CW's source of damage? Or do you think they should deal less damage than full-on tanks, despite being a secondary striker class?
Here you go on again, deflecting back to oppressors. Wasn't aware that only oppressors used storm spell, or that spell storm mage was the only path you could go. Probably because, they aren’t. You'll also notice that intimidation is a feature in that class tree, it affects just sentinels, storm spell affects any spell storm mage. As for your question, Chilling Presence is a good start for a mage that is meant to control/freeze/chill mobs.
And I've glad you have at least acknowledged that your 80% DR claims about CW Shield are baloney - at least acknowledged in the only way that you are going to, by choosing not to even attempt to defend it any longer.
Yet another fallacy.....
I stoped replying to the vast majoriety of your message because in all honesty it's becoming pointless. I'll write replying to everything someone says, then instead of replying to what I write, I get people like you cherry picking 1-2 things you don;t like about what I've said, disagree with me, shout and stomp your feet that I “don't understand anything”, rinse and repeat. The only person to not do this to me so far is “Macjae”. Surprising how actually talking to me creates a discussion isn't it?
If you see no issue a power dealing 40% of a classes damage, then I have no words for you.
this is what is going to happen, now look at the icons showing buffs...yee all renegades stacking capstones and storm spell will do the rest.
really i cant understand how people can say this to be even remotely wai
perma heals for those saying its unreliable
indeed who was the dead weight there? the GF ! IRONIC
edit: video 2, encounter at 2:15....count the storm spell procs. good luck
cws
spread enemies to all the sides (why opressive force need work in this way?), just have range sinergy... to others cws. gwfs, whant try wms+wicked strike? no chance. your "aoe" powers dont will hit enough targets.
heavy damage per target (not because hit multiples targets like is supposed to a NON main dps class)
gf die in 2 hits and cw is range and still have teleport/shield (why this class have dodge/ a strong shield if a tank die in one hit?).
how much players will need leave and small fishs devs be fired to this change?
aways happen the curves, life steal changes, enemies hit by a bizarre damage. what is more necessary before to do a real chemotherapy and kill cw, the cancer wizard?
Comments
It should not crit or benefit from other bonuses like chilling presence etc etc.
When it procs off at wills and hit up to 25k in pvp it starts to be a problem.
25k is a damage that should come out from encounters!
And dont say you lack general damage without it!
Cws have the higher recharge speed coupled with the lowest basic cooldowns and a good set of single target powers with high base damage. If this is not enough put a good 80 percent more in mod 6 from chilling presence with auto maxed stacks
.
Storm spell should not hit more than 5k really.
Lets see your utility powers...repel... you know i just got hit by a 15k repel? Utility... at least is an encounter
I am talking about PVE. I do not care about PVP. And testing a character only to lvl 62 in preview server is not getting the full picture of the brutal stat curves at lvl 70.
I'm talking about passives, not bugged encounters.
How about the HR *heroic* feat Lucky Skirmisher that grants 3% more Deflection chance (available to all HR's), plus Combat feat Fluid Hunter that grants 2.5% Deflection chance, plus the Aspect of the Lone Wolf class feature, plus the Deflect bonus from HR primary attributes, you can get an HR that has even more Deflect than tanky classes. Where is the "OMG" outrage?
CW gets the brunt of the hate, though, for some inexplicable reason, for having a shield that grants an additional 5% DR most of the time....
1 - any gwf player support intimidation (the buff after the super nerf/lack of tools, yes). see the diference?
2 - ntiimidation got a nerf
3 - tank patch or not, gwf is a primary dps. cw, dont. dps patch or not, gwf is a secundary defender, cw dont.
roots damage ticks overtime, dont always crit, dont stack and dont proc of at wills otherwise i would complain more about it too.
edit: for some reason ranger stealth do not apply combat advantage anymore since mod 4
The PvP vs PvE balance issues are never going to end until they make powers work differently from one mode to the other in terms of damage/effects. "Half as effective in PvP' just doesn't cut it, at all, it's a wild sledge hammer attempt at balance instead of using fully balanced numbers.
AoE damage is part of the CW's role as a controller, this is not an issue, the issue is the damage output especially from storm spell. As I've stated before, the content issue affects multiple classes such as a healing DC, and at the same time there needs to be variety in content, as well as multiple immune types to create a need for multiple classes. if everything could simply be CC'd to death, no one would need a tank or a healer for example, hence immune mobs.
Also, you should not be effective against your immunity. In this case a CW should not be able to take down a CC immune mob with high amounts of Single target damage because then again, why bring a HR or a TR? Furthremore what is the weak-point now to the CW if it can do AoE damage, CC, and single target, along with the buffs/debuffs if going renegade?
#1 - I don;t agree with the single target damage buff since they're:
A - Suppose to have a downside to CC immunes
B - Already very powerful in that area
What I do agree with is the target cap, right now 8 seems far too small for powers such as Singularity. Keep in mind however, any damage buff to X power will help out MoF path, while giving them no downside since they cannot use Storm Spell, so be careful in that regard.
#2 - Im going to say no for the simple reason that people will stop using sheild, insert X power to replace it, and then become more powerful. And again, this leads back to the issue of CW's getting ALL their benefits from passives. I prefer my idea a few pages back where it only last for X attacks then breaks, it makes the spell a much more active approach.
#3 - Disintegrate needs to be nerfed since it deals nearly as much damage as an ice knife with a tiny tiny cool down of around 5-6 seconds. Honestly, since it's a pure damage spell, if the cooldown was increased to match other powers such as Chill Strike, and did slightly less damage, it would be alot more in line.
#4 - Then.....what will counter CC for multiple classes such as SW and HR?
---
Oh, I'm good enough to have my own opinions instead of the one's you make up for me eh? Thanks for that. Secondly you have a love of fallacies, the one you're using this time is the "us against them". Just because someone thinks X class is overpowered or X power is overpowered does not make them a "Cw hater". Seriously, grow up.
Name the feat or class feature any other class has which does 40% of their overall damage. I'll be waiting. The only comparable bonus to storm spell is the diabolist set for the SW, which is basically being removed come mod 6.
You mean a path that is suppose to control mobs and not deal tons of damage? You mean like how most other classes pick and choose their play-style yet for some reason you think oppressor should be able to control and do massive amounts of damage to the extent that you think ONE feat giving, apparently, 60% of their damage is totally FINE?
They're so many issues with this, it's almost ironic.
- "You dismiss all arguments", You mean like how you've dismissed everything I've said so far and just gone back to your same old argument? Right.
- "We should all listen to you" - There we go, pulling words out of thin air again for fun. I wonder if you even know what a straw-man is, or what it means to put words in people's mouths that literally were never said. Also, fun fact, "all us control wizards" would include me since I actually PLAY the class, but no, don't ask me what classes I play, just make up assumptions and get all mad when I don't agree with you.
- "Acting defensively" , You can be as defensive as you want, it's just pointless, and doesn't give any real feedback, help anyone advance in any form, and it basically creates a hate between classes/players. But no, instead of giving good constructive ideas like myself in my first post and "macjae" as shown above, keep on playing the victim and saying all those mean nasty CW haters are out to get you.
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2kziqz_gray-wolf-den-11
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2kzx32_gray-wolf-den-3
this is what is going to happen, now look at the icons showing buffs...yee all renegades stacking capstones and storm spell will do the rest.
really i cant understand how people can say this to be even remotely wai
perma heals for those saying its unreliable
indeed who was the dead weight there? the GF ! IRONIC
edit: video 2, encounter at 2:15....count the storm spell procs. good luck
It IS "us vs. them" whether you care to admit it or not. This discussion is only about 5% balance, and about 95% agenda-pushing. Right now it is Tribe GWF vs. Tribe CW, apparently. And Tribe CW seems to have a lot of enemies, I believe because some people don't really understand how the class works, but mostly I think it is out of envy. They think that CW's can "do it all" (they can't), and they want to tear that down, even if it makes life harder for themselves.
Maybe none? I don't know, and I don't really care either. The POINT is, if you have pure controller CW, that CW will have very little AOE damage potential and will have to rely on passives in order to have any damage dealing potential at all. Nerfing Storm Spell means nerfing the controller CW that you all claim to want more of.
Oppressor CW does not deal "massive" damage. That is the point of the path. So yes, 60% of a small number is still a small number, and is "totally FINE".
Tell me, where should an Oppressor CW get his damage dealing potential from? What feats or powers or encounters do you suggest? Because there is only one Oppressor feat that boosts damage based on chill, and it is a very weak one. The Oppressor capstone feat was already nerfed once due to PVP outrage. The pure controlling encounters have low base damage amounts. The AOE damage encounters, if not feated and boosted by the Thaumaturge/Renegade paths, makes them not OP at all, and somewhat lackluster compared to other classes. I guarantee, all else being equal, a Trapper HR, Fury SW or Righteous DC will out-dps any Oppressor CW even with Storm Spell and even when the CW is using AOE damage dealing encounters.
Tell you what. I will be happy to show you. Name a time and I will copy my 20k CW to the Owlbear preview server (not the Mod 6 one), respec SS Oppressor, throw on an Archmage set, and I will do any IWD or WoD HE with you, on any character of your choosing, and log it with ACT, and then we will see exactly how "OP" Storm Spell is. Deal?
You have amply demonstrated that you are not here to discuss balance, you are here to push a CW-nerf agenda. Every CW who has attempted to engage you in conversation - ironzerg, aulduron, me - you have dismissed everything that they have said and continued to demand "nerf nerf nerf". Please tell me how your insistent demands for "nerf" helps anyone or give good constructive ideas? Even the ideas that macjae floated out, you rejected those too. You won't accept anything less than your idea of a Storm Spell and Shield nerf, period. What is the point of having this discussion then?
And guess what, Im not part of any “tribal”, yet you still feel like treating me as an “enemy of the cw's” even though I have 2 characters that are Cw's. Makes perfect sense. The person making it into a “us vs them” is you, pure and simple.
Back to the “us vs them” I see. So you have no facts to back up what you said, and you “dont care” if anything else is or is not overpowered? Right, you really care about balance (Sarcasm). So if you don;t care then my point stands, give GWF's back their massive , and broken, damage, and give SW's back the ability to gain AP while using tyrant, keep it at 40%, and wonder why no other DPS class will ever be needed.
60% is in no definition, shape, form, or reality, a small number. A path that is suppose to control should control, not deal huge amounts of damage, again especially from ONE feat, which you seem to either keep missing or you're just wilfully ignorant. The example has been given to you time and time again, a sentinel tanks, a destroyer does DPS, they don't do both, and yet for some reason you feel the need for oppressor to do both. Too, Bad.
A dps class can outdps a control class....and you say that like it's an issue. And that's basically the entire problem trying to argue with you in a nutshell. “I want to do everything”.
Go ahead and make some logs then and post them here, and take whoever you want but I have 0 interest in playing with you. Also people have already shown it to be a large part of the DPS of a CW, anywhere from 30% to 40%,
Let's see, my ideas so far on the list from both topics have included:
- Make shield a more active spell by having X stacks which weaken per hit from 80%-60%-40%-20%-0% then breaks and needs to be recast
- Adding in multiple damage types so that different classes have different forms of damage resistance allowing CW's to fare better against magical sources and GF/GWF to fare better vs physical sources
- Adding in a variety of dungeons instead of the current ones, allowing a greater form of class diversity allowing people to play different classes and still be needed.
- Adding in the ability to use swap-able quick-bars to allow classes to change from one set of powers to another allowing for example a CW to go from control to single target when needed.
And you, zerg, and multiple others have suggested ....... um.... Oh right, next to nothing. Simply complained that you can't do much against CC immune targets and then go on to quote mine me and misrepresent my argument, stomp your feet, and claim “I hate all CW's” even though I play the class.
Also, me not agreeing with others doesn't make me wrong and any of you right. If 100 people say that 2+2 is 5, and one person says that 2+2 is 4, the one person is right, not the 100.
Let's play your own game, you disagree with me on every front, does that mean you hate anyone that wants CW's nerfed, of in your case “all non-cws”? If so, that makes you a bit of an elitist, and I see no reason to debate with someone that just wants their, only class im assuming at this point, to be fair and balanced. The best part after all this is you've given no suggestions yourself, hypocrite.
It would take alot of effort yes, but until something like that is done PvP and PvE cannot be balanced together at the same time, it just doesn't work. One power/class will end up over-performing in PvE and lack in PvP and the cycle of buff/nerfs goes on and on and on.
Agreed, content is also a major issue. One dungeon per mod so far doesn't help things, there really needs to be a larger variety, otherwise we end up with 1-2 top classes and everyone else just following along.
Which is something many others wish to happen. The main path I believe people have issues with is Renegade, especially because of the capstone. This path allows a CW to pull off way too many roles, the capstone even gives a pretty decent healing power which is madness.
This is more of a content issue in my mind, such as Lostmouth only being a boss. A cw can use alot of single target powers and even debuff with ray of enfeeblement, but it's simply lacking a proper role in that battle. They're no mobs to control, which is the main issue, and HR/TR/SW are far better at dealing with the boss and most of the content in that dungeon. This wouldnt be so bad if there were more than 1 dungeon per mod, such as a dungeon CW is better at than HR, and then 2-3 more dungeons, but as it is, it's again, lacking.
The solution would also need to help MoF since they do not even benefit from the current Storm Spell power level. Again, this could be solved if they spilt PvP and PvE powers/dual spec/etc.
Which is why Oppressive Force is so popular right now. Depending on the content, 8 could be fine if they're focusing on smaller groups of foes like in Lostmouth, but if it's going to be larger again it should be closer to the 12-15 range for spells like Singularity.
The other main issue is testing on shard is a nightmare, especially after their “black hole glitch” turned off a large amount of people who leveled to 70, ESPECIALLY on pallys, so they shot themselves in the foot by not giving the proper tools to actually test said content.
The main issue with shield / storm spell, is that they “need” to be slotted, as in pick anything else and you are far less effective. Whether shield needs to be reworked to have stacks, or they need another option or 2, such as a class feature or another encounter power, it needs to change so that they're more options available. The same goes for storm spell, one feat should not be giving you nearly half of your damage, at all, ever. This makes it impossible to use any other feat and leaves MoF in the dust. Buffing the potential of spells like Shard will end up helping both paths, give more options, and make Cw's less dependent on one power, if at the same time Storm Spell does get tonned down because it's too powerful.
Exactly, the skill itself is fine as a concept, it just does too much damage at the current time and should be toned down. Again, it gives CW's more options for when they're fighting bosses that have no mobs or CC immune targets.
I've nothing to add.
You keep focusing on this 40% number from Spell Storm. Once again - for SS Oppressor CW's, they will need *some* source of AOE damage, just like Sentinel GWFs despite being a tank have a passive source of damage (Intimidation), just like Protector GFs despite being a tank have passives source of damage (Balanced Shield Fighter, Combat Superiority, Trample the Fallen to name a few).
No one has ever claimed that Oppressor CW's should be able to deal "MASSIVE" amounts of damage. No one. That is a strawman you invented. Oppressor CW damage is going to be low, and should be low, relative to other CW's. But it shouldn't be non-existent, either! Sentinel GWFs have Intimidation. Protector GFs have Trample the Fallen. So seriously, where do you think Oppressor CW's should get their source of damage? Please answer this question. You want to nerf Spell Storm, so that's not it. So what then? What should be the Oppressor CW's source of damage? Or do you think they should deal less damage than full-on tanks, despite being a secondary striker class?
And I've glad you have at least acknowledged that your 80% DR claims about CW Shield are baloney - at least acknowledged in the only way that you are going to, by choosing not to even attempt to defend it any longer.
Just putting it out there comparing intimidation (adds 125% weapondmg [so like.. 3k or so base] to 2 encounters that have no base dmg and some basic utility) to Stormspell (Class feature adding 40% damage on crit that in many cases does more dps than the combined total of all other damage sources because of the synergy with EotS (100% crit for 4 seconds every 20 secs on any power you wish to use.) is hilarious.
I'm sure that if EotS and Stormspell couldn't be both used at once, there'd be much less hatred about it. or if they didnt synergise as well.
If Steel blitz was a 40% chance to deal extra damage on Crit for GWF/GF, and they had a feature giving 100% crit for 4 seconds also. there'd be just as much rage even though they don't really have much in the way of DoTs that can crit.
Imagine a warlock with Stormspell and EotS as their features... that scares me.
In the end though. this thread was originally about Shield. not stormspell. And although Control wizards do huge damage. I'm more okay with that than I am them being able to facetank and outdps in meele range.
The problem with any "nerf this nerf that" threads, is that the constructive comments / comments with actual data backing them up are ignored, and the weaker QQ ones are the ones that get targetted and shot down. happens in loads of games, and not just for Control wiz.
Drunken Goose of MidNight Express. - 3.3k Paladin , 3.6k GWF , 3.1k GF,
Umm what excactly are we soupposed to see? Granted i only saw gray wolf den 1, but all that showed was a party of 4 cws and 1 gf wiping over and over, against the boss, despite them trying to exploit it(while being a member of the legit community, no less...)?? Even with 4 CW's in the party the so called perma heals you are talking about, wasnt even close to being enough to keep the GF alive(or any1 els for that matter) during the boss fight... Not really seeing what the problem is?
Anyway yeah storm spell procs a lot at 2:15, with 4 cws in the party?? Are we really having a discussion about whatever cws are to OP to clear trash mobs that aint CC immun??
And nerfing CW's will help that how??
Dunno was probaly your 200 posts about how broken OP CW's are atm, that gave me that impression... Anyway if Melee classes really go Down that easy in mod 6(not really convinced, that gf in the video, have some really ****ty equipment...) they of course need a boost, since they def. need to be a bit more viable than that gf. However do keep in mind, that 99 % of the all the encounters use atm, to proc spellstorm also does require us to be in melee range, so you are not the only ones who is going to suffer:)
I'll bite. Explain to me very simply why you think that One feature should be able to do 40% of a classes DPS. Until then, I'm going to say what I've said before, it needs to be changed so that other builds are more viable than “slot storm spell and face tank”. Furthermore, you keep deflecting to “Cw's” being OP, when the issue is 2 powers, Shield and Storm Spell, one of which is only avaible to a certain paragon.
Because both of those powers do 40% of their damage, right? Oh wait, they don't. Any other bad justification you got going? Because once again, no one is saying delete storm spell from the game, they're saying to reduce the damage.
Here you go on again, deflecting back to oppressors. Wasn't aware that only oppressors used storm spell, or that spell storm mage was the only path you could go. Probably because, they aren’t. You'll also notice that intimidation is a feature in that class tree, it affects just sentinels, storm spell affects any spell storm mage. As for your question, Chilling Presence is a good start for a mage that is meant to control/freeze/chill mobs.
Yet another fallacy.....
I stoped replying to the vast majoriety of your message because in all honesty it's becoming pointless. I'll write replying to everything someone says, then instead of replying to what I write, I get people like you cherry picking 1-2 things you don;t like about what I've said, disagree with me, shout and stomp your feet that I “don't understand anything”, rinse and repeat. The only person to not do this to me so far is “Macjae”. Surprising how actually talking to me creates a discussion isn't it?
If you see no issue a power dealing 40% of a classes damage, then I have no words for you.
cws
spread enemies to all the sides (why opressive force need work in this way?), just have range sinergy... to others cws. gwfs, whant try wms+wicked strike? no chance. your "aoe" powers dont will hit enough targets.
heavy damage per target (not because hit multiples targets like is supposed to a NON main dps class)
gf die in 2 hits and cw is range and still have teleport/shield (why this class have dodge/ a strong shield if a tank die in one hit?).
how much players will need leave and small fishs devs be fired to this change?
aways happen the curves, life steal changes, enemies hit by a bizarre damage. what is more necessary before to do a real chemotherapy and kill cw, the cancer wizard?