zebularMember, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 15,270Community Moderator
edited February 2015
In 5th edition, Paladins can choose from: 1 handed + offhand, dual weapons, or 2 handed weapons. They can even choose to know how to use ranged weapons. It doesn't say anywhere that a Paladin cannot use any specific weapon. While I don't expect us to get the same choices in Neverwinter, it really would be nice to have the choice -- even if we're limited to choosing weapon types for the main hand only. Indeed.
D&D Paladins have always been sword wielders. For a dev to reportedly claim that the mace is 'iconic' for the class demonstrates a distressing level of ignorance about the intellectual property NWO is based on.
I'm not a hard-core D&D traditionalist by any means. I appreciate that an MMO has to make compromises with the source material. And I'm not a dev-basher at all. But Paladins wielding maces is just wrong. End of.
Just look at the changes on Preview, all the new power ups ( pure & transcendent enchants, rank12s etc ) mean nothing in PVE. PVE will never need you in rank12s or pure Terror to complete anything. So the changes are for PVP even tho the devs state Neverwinter is primarily a PVE game with some PVP... Yet they create content focused on PVP which only the so called 'whales' can afford anyhow and count on the human ego to drive people to spend real money and gear up a toon to current bis for PVP... its freakin' sad is what it is 'cause I could've found a longterm gaming 'home' here with reasonable spending. I just dont to see it anymore
Those mean a great deal in PvE, particularly in the higher end content released so far where there are more high end enemies who can one-shot even solidly geared non-tanks. Given the significant ranges of players who are PvE focused, those higher end bits of kit can make a significant difference in lots of content.
The right to command is earned through duty, the privilege of rank is service.
Those mean a great deal in PvE, particularly in the higher end content released so far where there are more high end enemies who can one-shot even solidly geared non-tanks. Given the significant ranges of players who are PvE focused, those higher end bits of kit can make a significant difference in lots of content.
Im on Preview and the only "challenge" I see is the fact devs decided to make me weaker on the way to 70 than I was at 60. The monsters themselves are easy enough to drop.
Row, row, row your boat, Gently down the stream.
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.
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sokolnichiyMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 187Arc User
edited February 2015
woah to be honest many things in game is more simplified then it should be.
no matter on wich edition 4th or 5th the game is based, we still don't get appropriate variety of weapons for classes.
Where are maces for clerics and not that rediculous symbols to swing around. Symbols were introduced in 3rd ed if i'm not mistaken.
And palies i do agree that in D&D specifecly they have swords AND a choice between onehanded and twohanded! and we didn't even have that choice so why bother.
I d beter have Maces/Spears for Guardian fighters and swords 1h/2h for Palies.
Im on Preview and the only "challenge" I see is the fact devs decided to make me weaker on the way to 70 than I was at 60. The monsters themselves are easy enough to drop.
Also on preview with multiple chars to test different things. Loving the rank 12 plague fire and frost enchants right now.
The right to command is earned through duty, the privilege of rank is service.
In 5th edition, Paladins can choose from: 1 handed + offhand, dual weapons, or 2 handed weapons. They can even choose to know how to use ranged weapons. It doesn't say anywhere that a Paladin cannot use any specific weapon. While I don't expect us to get the same choices in Neverwinter, it really would be nice to have the choice -- even if we're limited to choosing weapon types for the main hand only. Indeed.
You said it brother, this is what I have been saying all this time. I am pretty sure all other editions are the same. Can't quote 4th but I know the others allow for all weapon types.
Book 7, it breaks and he's without it for a while.
Come on man better analogies. These ones were too easy to pick apart. If you want to have issues how about that pallies are healers in this game where they were never main healers before. Yeah they could heal a little when things went FUBAR but they weren't clerics, this pally is.
I think the emperor would object to being called a "Jedi" just sayen. You also don't know what was under his robes:) The nature of "iconic" and/or stereotypes also plays to the advantange of makeing the emperor seem more powerfull. Unlike the other force combatants he is beyond a pithy lightsaber and does not need one do deal with a mere jedi in the original trilogy. Iconic does not equall everyone, iconic is a really nice positive and elevating way of say typical, normal or exspected.
When Harry losses his wand it adds tension as he is suddenly befrett his capabilities with the loss of his iconic weapon. If the weapon was not important to him its loss would not have been important either. And his lossing it makes it no less iconic.
Yes, rangers (and a good amount of dnd) are based on LoTR - I fail to see how this makes a bow any less iconic to them. What do we think of a Ranger who walks into a bar with out a bow - poor thing probablly hasn't eaten in week....
The dragon thing was a typo:) But would they be the same with say feathers? Cool perhasp, but would we instantly think dragon?
I don't have a problem with the pally being a full time healer. To me it is a logical outgrowth of thier abilities in early dnd edditions to heal with both LoH and thier limited spell casting abilities. Most of the early dnd groups I ran with never carried a cleric and only used healing outside of combat. Probably not stratigically smart but it was the way we played the game. Addapting dnd to a vidio game environment where healing could (and offten is) a role to be filled means some classes are going to be pick to it. Clerics, Druids, Pallys seem to make good choices for this. Warlock I am not sure about but hey they were not in dnd until late 3.5 and not core dnd until 4th. Ya, I still harbor some ill will to their inclusion in the 4th ed phb despite how much I like the concept. Evolution is not bad!
Back on topic, when I see a mace I think cleric. When I think about paladins I see a sword. At least in the context of dnd. If this game was not branded dnd I would not care if the paladins of this setting like maces.
franjean82Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited February 2015
Technically, a paladin or a cleric in the Forgotten Realms setting would be likely to use his or her deity's Favored Weapon in most cases. Longsword for Corellon, greatswords for Torm, hammer for Moradin, an axe for Clangeddin Silverbeard.. you get the idea.
Obviously there's not as much room for diversity in a video game designed the way NW is, but the point I'm making is that I don't see maces/morning stars/hammers as a particularly farfetched choice for Paladins. I think the main reason I welcome it is because I was completely appalled that Clerics in this game used Holy Symbols instead of the archetypical maces. I like the aesthetic, and I can't wait for my dwarf to wield one in battle.
I'm all for options. By all means, make swords available to OP's that want them. But don't take away our maces.
I just tracked a few people down and the current plan is to have the primary Oathbound Paladin gear rewards be maces. HOWEVER, a number of items especially transmute rewards will use Guardian Fighter swords and at least one Devoted Cleric Scepter.
So there will be choices other than maces, but that will be the primary focus.
I'll blow vuvezela until I die!
0
zebularMember, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 15,270Community Moderator
I just tracked a few people down and the current plan is to have the primary Oathbound Paladin gear rewards be maces. HOWEVER, a number of items especially transmute rewards will use Guardian Fighter swords and at least one Devoted Cleric Scepter.
So there will be choices other than maces, but that will be the primary focus.
I'll blow vuvezela until I die!
Awesome! Thanks!
While I have your ear... *the mage sets down some delicious bamboo imported from Kara-Tur* and since I am a mage... *he taps this hovering thing around him* How about a Quarterstaff transmute for us old school mages? Elminster makes me so jealous!
While I have your ear... *the mage sets down some delicious bamboo imported from Kara-Tur* and since I am a mage... *he taps this hovering thing around him* How about a Quarterstaff transmute for us old school mages? Elminster makes me so jealous!
Aw man, as a Wizard as my main i'd love this too. The problem is the fancy Wu-almost Shu animations (Shield/Chill Strike) that generally don't incorporate their weapon, or when they do its meat to be grasping an orby object (Magic Missile). Not to mention the default animation stances. The staff would just always be on the back and/or look awkward.
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zebularMember, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 15,270Community Moderator
Aw man, as a Wizard as my main i'd love this too. The problem is the fancy Wu-almost Shu animations (Shield/Chill Strike) that generally don't incorporate their weapon, or when they do its meat to be grasping an orby object (Magic Missile). Not to mention the default animation stances. The staff would just always be on the back and/or look awkward.
Ah, well. Was worth a shot! *he sets down more delicious bamboo*
Perhaps sometime in the far future, we can get a cosmetic slot for a weapon and just have the actual weapon visuals replace the cosmetic staff when in combat. Anywho, thanks for the consideration!
Ah, well. Was worth a shot! *he sets down more delicious bamboo*
Perhaps sometime in the far future, we can get a cosmetic slot for a weapon and just have the actual weapon visuals replace the cosmetic staff when in combat. Anywho, thanks for the consideration!
Maybe we'll get another caster class that can use staves at some point at the least.
I just tracked a few people down and the current plan is to have the primary Oathbound Paladin gear rewards be maces. HOWEVER, a number of items especially transmute rewards will use Guardian Fighter swords and at least one Devoted Cleric Scepter.
So there will be choices other than maces, but that will be the primary focus.
I'll blow vuvezela until I die!
My future Paladin to Loviatar would like a whip for a weapon. Can ya make it happen? Please!
I just tracked a few people down and the current plan is to have the primary Oathbound Paladin gear rewards be maces. HOWEVER, a number of items especially transmute rewards will use Guardian Fighter swords and at least one Devoted Cleric Scepter.
So there will be choices other than maces, but that will be the primary focus.
I'll blow vuvezela until I die!
While I appreciate you taking the time to talk to people about this, the response from the devs inside seems cheap to me and not a fix. Transmute is end game. I shouldn't have to live with an eyesore like this for 70 levels. I also do not understand why swords can't be made available before hand. It's not the same. Having to deal with a bulky system like the transmute system as it stands isn't a fix. It's just another problem we have to deal with. I don't understand why they can't make guardian fighter weapons available to us since the armors are available to us. This offer to fix the problem is by no means a fix to the problem. The impression that I am getting at least after seeing the livestream was that it's a developers personal interest in making the mace a paladin weapon and not what everyone else wants. As a long time D&D player of 33 years I feel a bit insulted that someone would actually try to sell to me that a mace is iconic as a weapon for paladins.
With all due respect, a correction here. Its VUVUZELA, and man, its a maddening instrument. There was a troubled time here in Brazil (during the 2010 FIFA World Cup) where every single **** morning was like a call to war, with fans blowing that thing for HOURS, non-stop, just for the sheer will of being annoying. Srsly. (As a comparison, it could very well work as a instrument of psychological warfare, similar to the Aztec Death Wistle.)
I hope u know where u getting into, Panderus. :X
Leanan Sidhe(not "The Dresde Files" fairy!)- NW Legit Channel Moderator
While I appreciate you taking the time to talk to people about this, the response from the devs inside seems cheap to me and not a fix. Transmute is end game. I shouldn't have to live with an eyesore like this for 70 levels. I also do not understand why swords can't be made available before hand. It's not the same. Having to deal with a bulky system like the transmute system as it stands isn't a fix. It's just another problem we have to deal with. I don't understand why they can't make guardian fighter weapons available to us since the armors are available to us. This offer to fix the problem is by no means a fix to the problem. The impression that I am getting at least after seeing the livestream was that it's a developers personal interest in making the mace a paladin weapon and not what everyone else wants. As a long time D&D player of 33 years I feel a bit insulted that someone would actually try to sell to me that a mace is iconic as a weapon for paladins.
Dude, even without xp bonus items getting to sixty could be done in a 3 days easily enough. Unless getting to 70 takes 20 times longer than 1-60, you'll likely be at sub max level less than a week.
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orangefireeMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,148Arc User
Aw man, as a Wizard as my main i'd love this too. The problem is the fancy Wu-almost Shu animations (Shield/Chill Strike) that generally don't incorporate their weapon, or when they do its meat to be grasping an orby object (Magic Missile). Not to mention the default animation stances. The staff would just always be on the back and/or look awkward.
Maybe warlocks could have one at least then? Their animations would work with staves I'd think.
Neverwinter players are stubborn things....until you strip them down to bone. (Cursed players, my flowers, MINE!) Oh how I plotted their demise.
Dude, even without xp bonus items getting to sixty could be done in a 3 days easily enough. Unless getting to 70 takes 20 times longer than 1-60, you'll likely be at sub max level less than a week.
I play casually, not 24 hours a day. I don't have XP bonus items and with these sorts of shenanigans I can guarantee you I won't be spending any money on them either. Regardless, it still doesn't excuse someone putting their opinion before what their paying customers want just because "they think its cool". If making a game for themselves instead of other people and paying customers is more important that's fine. I can always spend my money on other games.
Dude, even without xp bonus items getting to sixty could be done in a 3 days easily enough. Unless getting to 70 takes 20 times longer than 1-60, you'll likely be at sub max level less than a week.
I've never had that experience. Not ever. Not on any character I have played straight up.
I've never had that experience. Not ever. Not on any character I have played straight up.
This is one of my leadership alts. He had an 18% xp boost after level 20.
but lets's round that out. 9.5 hours times 1.18 to equal a little over what it would have taken with no bonus. That's 11.2 hours. That's pretty close to my memory of 10 hours. I was a little off, looks like it's in the 11 range, but you get the idea.
No taking into consideration the people that doesnt want to level up as fast as possible and take thier time.
Through 11 of my characters its taken a few months for them to level to 60, simply because I perferred doing pvp and some dungeons here and there and alot of foundry stuff (non farming). I dont want to be stuck with some unsightly equipment at those levels and have to pay the ungodly sum of AD to transmute, and then do so again every few levels or so to not use a weapon my character just would not like (and dont even identify with).
Even when you get to 60/70. If the gear is gonna be teired like they were doing in mods 1-5 and actually plan on making the tiers and stats on equipment more meaningful. Thats still a whole lot of transmutation to go through.
And Franjean82 thanks for the forgoten realms perspective - I will admid I never played tabletop in FG. Prefered making up my own worlds. Did read a ton of book and play a more than a few FR vidio games though.
I can accept transmutes (hopefully not hard to get/exspensive) for my future pally though I will still hold up hope for swords from other sorces than quest rewards. Weaponsmith maybe. Shared weapons with GF would still be nice but I do realize it might be easier to balence with seperatweapons for seperate classes. Shared armor is nice as it is on test.
Now, can we talk about hammers.... I like to play dwarfs. Needs spe hammers, and axes. Please?
Lorgrius
A Day in the Life of a Ranger NW-DKCE6OZVH The Mines of GubassoDaily! NW-DN7Z5LHAR The Vault of HargonDaily! NW-DP4X6HAEP
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beckylunaticMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 14,231Arc User
edited February 2015
Weaponsmithing recipes for Paladin sword alternatives is an excellent idea. Already this is how GFs and GWFs get axes and TRs get short swords. And they are usable weapons if you want, not just skins.
Comments
[ Support Center • Rules & Policies and Guidelines • ARC ToS • Guild Recruitment Guidelines | FR DM Since 1993 ]
I'm not a hard-core D&D traditionalist by any means. I appreciate that an MMO has to make compromises with the source material. And I'm not a dev-basher at all. But Paladins wielding maces is just wrong. End of.
Aelar Hawkwind - Archer
Karrin Feywinter - Mistress of Flame
Errin Duskwalker - Executioner
Darquess - Soulbinder
Those mean a great deal in PvE, particularly in the higher end content released so far where there are more high end enemies who can one-shot even solidly geared non-tanks. Given the significant ranges of players who are PvE focused, those higher end bits of kit can make a significant difference in lots of content.
Im on Preview and the only "challenge" I see is the fact devs decided to make me weaker on the way to 70 than I was at 60. The monsters themselves are easy enough to drop.
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.
no matter on wich edition 4th or 5th the game is based, we still don't get appropriate variety of weapons for classes.
Where are maces for clerics and not that rediculous symbols to swing around. Symbols were introduced in 3rd ed if i'm not mistaken.
And palies i do agree that in D&D specifecly they have swords AND a choice between onehanded and twohanded! and we didn't even have that choice so why bother.
I d beter have Maces/Spears for Guardian fighters and swords 1h/2h for Palies.
Also on preview with multiple chars to test different things. Loving the rank 12 plague fire and frost enchants right now.
You said it brother, this is what I have been saying all this time. I am pretty sure all other editions are the same. Can't quote 4th but I know the others allow for all weapon types.
Sovereign Lord of the 1st Fist of Light
Global Handle: @Marshal_Valor
A Jedi without a lightsaber
A Ranger without a bow (yup, even the mellee types carry one)
A Dragon without Scales
Harry Potter without his wand
A cleric without a Mace - hmm, might think about this one...
Come on man better analogies. These ones were too easy to pick apart. If you want to have issues how about that pallies are healers in this game where they were never main healers before. Yeah they could heal a little when things went FUBAR but they weren't clerics, this pally is.
Sovereign Lord of the 1st Fist of Light
Global Handle: @Marshal_Valor
When Harry losses his wand it adds tension as he is suddenly befrett his capabilities with the loss of his iconic weapon. If the weapon was not important to him its loss would not have been important either. And his lossing it makes it no less iconic.
Yes, rangers (and a good amount of dnd) are based on LoTR - I fail to see how this makes a bow any less iconic to them. What do we think of a Ranger who walks into a bar with out a bow - poor thing probablly hasn't eaten in week....
The dragon thing was a typo:) But would they be the same with say feathers? Cool perhasp, but would we instantly think dragon?
I don't have a problem with the pally being a full time healer. To me it is a logical outgrowth of thier abilities in early dnd edditions to heal with both LoH and thier limited spell casting abilities. Most of the early dnd groups I ran with never carried a cleric and only used healing outside of combat. Probably not stratigically smart but it was the way we played the game. Addapting dnd to a vidio game environment where healing could (and offten is) a role to be filled means some classes are going to be pick to it. Clerics, Druids, Pallys seem to make good choices for this. Warlock I am not sure about but hey they were not in dnd until late 3.5 and not core dnd until 4th. Ya, I still harbor some ill will to their inclusion in the 4th ed phb despite how much I like the concept. Evolution is not bad!
Back on topic, when I see a mace I think cleric. When I think about paladins I see a sword. At least in the context of dnd. If this game was not branded dnd I would not care if the paladins of this setting like maces.
A cow without udders?
Obviously there's not as much room for diversity in a video game designed the way NW is, but the point I'm making is that I don't see maces/morning stars/hammers as a particularly farfetched choice for Paladins. I think the main reason I welcome it is because I was completely appalled that Clerics in this game used Holy Symbols instead of the archetypical maces. I like the aesthetic, and I can't wait for my dwarf to wield one in battle.
I'm all for options. By all means, make swords available to OP's that want them. But don't take away our maces.
Player of Wilcomb Goodale
So there will be choices other than maces, but that will be the primary focus.
I'll blow vuvezela until I die!
While I have your ear... *the mage sets down some delicious bamboo imported from Kara-Tur* and since I am a mage... *he taps this hovering thing around him* How about a Quarterstaff transmute for us old school mages? Elminster makes me so jealous!
[ Support Center • Rules & Policies and Guidelines • ARC ToS • Guild Recruitment Guidelines | FR DM Since 1993 ]
Aw man, as a Wizard as my main i'd love this too. The problem is the fancy Wu-almost Shu animations (Shield/Chill Strike) that generally don't incorporate their weapon, or when they do its meat to be grasping an orby object (Magic Missile). Not to mention the default animation stances. The staff would just always be on the back and/or look awkward.
Perhaps sometime in the far future, we can get a cosmetic slot for a weapon and just have the actual weapon visuals replace the cosmetic staff when in combat. Anywho, thanks for the consideration!
[ Support Center • Rules & Policies and Guidelines • ARC ToS • Guild Recruitment Guidelines | FR DM Since 1993 ]
Maybe we'll get another caster class that can use staves at some point at the least.
My future Paladin to Loviatar would like a whip for a weapon. Can ya make it happen? Please!
While I appreciate you taking the time to talk to people about this, the response from the devs inside seems cheap to me and not a fix. Transmute is end game. I shouldn't have to live with an eyesore like this for 70 levels. I also do not understand why swords can't be made available before hand. It's not the same. Having to deal with a bulky system like the transmute system as it stands isn't a fix. It's just another problem we have to deal with. I don't understand why they can't make guardian fighter weapons available to us since the armors are available to us. This offer to fix the problem is by no means a fix to the problem. The impression that I am getting at least after seeing the livestream was that it's a developers personal interest in making the mace a paladin weapon and not what everyone else wants. As a long time D&D player of 33 years I feel a bit insulted that someone would actually try to sell to me that a mace is iconic as a weapon for paladins.
Sovereign Lord of the 1st Fist of Light
Global Handle: @Marshal_Valor
With all due respect, a correction here. Its VUVUZELA, and man, its a maddening instrument. There was a troubled time here in Brazil (during the 2010 FIFA World Cup) where every single **** morning was like a call to war, with fans blowing that thing for HOURS, non-stop, just for the sheer will of being annoying. Srsly. (As a comparison, it could very well work as a instrument of psychological warfare, similar to the Aztec Death Wistle.)
I hope u know where u getting into, Panderus. :X
Dude, even without xp bonus items getting to sixty could be done in a 3 days easily enough. Unless getting to 70 takes 20 times longer than 1-60, you'll likely be at sub max level less than a week.
Maybe warlocks could have one at least then? Their animations would work with staves I'd think.
I play casually, not 24 hours a day. I don't have XP bonus items and with these sorts of shenanigans I can guarantee you I won't be spending any money on them either. Regardless, it still doesn't excuse someone putting their opinion before what their paying customers want just because "they think its cool". If making a game for themselves instead of other people and paying customers is more important that's fine. I can always spend my money on other games.
Sovereign Lord of the 1st Fist of Light
Global Handle: @Marshal_Valor
I'm only talking about a couple hours a night. It really doesn't take anything to level in this game.
edit*
I'm not going to swear to it, because my memory might be off on the numbers but I want to say that you can do 1-60 in 10 hours with no xp buffs.
I've never had that experience. Not ever. Not on any character I have played straight up.
Sovereign Lord of the 1st Fist of Light
Global Handle: @Marshal_Valor
This is one of my leadership alts. He had an 18% xp boost after level 20.
but lets's round that out. 9.5 hours times 1.18 to equal a little over what it would have taken with no bonus. That's 11.2 hours. That's pretty close to my memory of 10 hours. I was a little off, looks like it's in the 11 range, but you get the idea.
Through 11 of my characters its taken a few months for them to level to 60, simply because I perferred doing pvp and some dungeons here and there and alot of foundry stuff (non farming). I dont want to be stuck with some unsightly equipment at those levels and have to pay the ungodly sum of AD to transmute, and then do so again every few levels or so to not use a weapon my character just would not like (and dont even identify with).
Even when you get to 60/70. If the gear is gonna be teired like they were doing in mods 1-5 and actually plan on making the tiers and stats on equipment more meaningful. Thats still a whole lot of transmutation to go through.
And Franjean82 thanks for the forgoten realms perspective - I will admid I never played tabletop in FG. Prefered making up my own worlds. Did read a ton of book and play a more than a few FR vidio games though.
I can accept transmutes (hopefully not hard to get/exspensive) for my future pally though I will still hold up hope for swords from other sorces than quest rewards. Weaponsmith maybe. Shared weapons with GF would still be nice but I do realize it might be easier to balence with seperatweapons for seperate classes. Shared armor is nice as it is on test.
Now, can we talk about hammers.... I like to play dwarfs. Needs spe hammers, and axes. Please?
A Day in the Life of a Ranger
NW-DKCE6OZVH
The Mines of Gubasso Daily!
NW-DN7Z5LHAR
The Vault of Hargon Daily!
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