Spellstorm Renegade Guide: Death is the Best Crowd Control

ironzerg79

phr33d0m123 wrote: »

ironzerg I was asking mostly for dungeons.

Stick with the Warlock for dungeons.

Also, did some Temple of the Spider runs last night, and found that Storm Spell + Chilling Presence was still the best combination.

Here's one of the overall runs, just playing with the same set up from pre-nerf:



Here's the parse from the fight versus the last boss:



So still over 70k DPS for the trash clearing, and almost 110k DPS in the last boss fight? I'm not going to cry about that.

I did get beaten by a Warlock, but there's something crazy going on with the Damnation spec that's causing the Soul Puppet to hit for 1 million+ points of damage. 54% of her damage came from the Soul Puppet's claw swipe, so that definitely needs to be investigated

(so don't worry, our tears will soon be overrun by those of the SW soon)

EDIT: As for possible changes? I think the only major change might be the enchantment. Since a good chunk of our damage can critically hit anymore, Vorpal isn't quite as good. It might be worth it to look at Plague Fire or Terror (when it's fixed) as great team enchants, and possible Feytouched as a personal DPS alternative (although the debuff should be very useful in a dungeon). My only issue with Feytouch is it doesn't stack, so if multiple people in a group are using it, only one person is going to get the buff from it.

spideymt

ironzerg79 wrote: »

I did get beaten by a Warlock, but there's something crazy going on with the Damnation spec that's causing the Soul Puppet to hit for 1 million+ points of damage. 54% of her damage came from the Soul Puppet's claw swipe, so that definitely needs to be investigated

Thats reported a lot of times. I got a SW in german channel that claims "ok..maybe it scales a bit to hard, but its wai". Lol....
Thats obvious a bug. Hope they fix that soon. And this bug only works in dungeons. Got a SW in grp and his puppet mad 2,6 mio hits in tos. Well.. nn to say anymore about "its wai".

deepflight007

ironzerg79 wrote: »

Stick with the Warlock for dungeons.

Also, did some Temple of the Spider runs last night, and found that Storm Spell + Chilling Presence was still the best combination.

Here's one of the overall runs, just playing with the same set up from pre-nerf:



.

Dear Ironzerg,

I was wondering how you succeed to get the extremely high 8% crit in regards to Storm Spell during the run you mentionned above.

Here is my ACT capture for a run of eCC last night with my main (CW Renegade with SS+Chilling Presence slotted) and I definitely did only 0% crit for SS as I was expecting after the patch.



Thanks !! (and definitely looking to read your comments on your Guide about How to adapt...:cool:)

niadan

deepflight007 wrote: »

Dear Ironzerg,

I was wondering how you succeed to get the extremely high 8% crit in regards to Storm Spell during the run you mentionned above.

Here is my ACT capture for a run of eCC last night with my main (CW Renegade with SS+Chilling Presence slotted) and I definitely did only 0% crit for SS as I was expecting after the patch.



Thanks !! (and definitely looking to read your comments on your Guide about How to adapt...:cool:)

SS artifact Offhand Feature.

ironzerg79

So after digging through some results last night, I was pondering why the damage nerf to Storm Spell wasn't as terrible in practice as one would think it would be on paper. And then it dawned on me. If you refer back to the Combat Advantage damage equation derived from Kaelac at LaggyGamerz:

Total damage with CA and CRIT = base damage * (1+ 0.75 + sum of all crit severity bonuses + 0.15 + CHA bonus + CAbonus) * (1+blink dog %) * (1+ intellect devourer %)

The damage is additive, not multiplicative. Basically Base * (Critical Strike Bonus + Combat Advantage Bonus) * Blink Dog * Intellect Devourer

So, the first part of the nerf, the ICD/target isn't really a factor. BUT, when you talk about the overall damage, only one part of the total equation really got hit. In regards to this build, which thrives off combat advantage bonuses, the hit to overall damage is there, but combat advantage really helps mitigate a lot of the hit.

That (15% + CHA + CA Bonus) * 5% * 5% is still very relevant and still very powerful.

Had the CA Bonus been multiplicative with the Critical Bonus, the change would have been much more severe.

It just reinforces in my mind how powerful (and often underrated) CA really is.

helpimblindinrl

The next obvious step is to swap to a weapon that boosts Overall damage rather a vorp. Probably trans feytouched. Oompf is gone anyway.

gildriador

Hi Ironzerg,

ironzerg79 wrote: »

So after digging through some results last night, I was pondering why the damage nerf to Storm Spell wasn't as terrible in practice as one would think it would be on paper. And then it dawned on me. If you refer back to the Combat Advantage damage equation derived from Kaelac at LaggyGamerz:

Total damage with CA and CRIT = base damage * (1+ 0.75 + sum of all crit severity bonuses + 0.15 + CHA bonus + CAbonus) * (1+blink dog %) * (1+ intellect devourer %)

The damage is additive, not multiplicative. Basically Base * (Critical Strike Bonus + Combat Advantage Bonus) * Blink Dog * Intellect Devourer

So, the first part of the nerf, the ICD/target isn't really a factor. BUT, when you talk about the overall damage, only one part of the total equation really got hit. In regards to this build, which thrives off combat advantage bonuses, the hit to overall damage is there, but combat advantage really helps mitigate a lot of the hit.

That (15% + CHA + CA Bonus) * 5% * 5% is still very relevant and still very powerful.

Had the CA Bonus been multiplicative with the Critical Bonus, the change would have been much more severe.

It just reinforces in my mind how powerful (and often underrated) CA really is.

if I have this active companion:

Black Dragon Ioune Stone/Acolyte Kelemvor
Blink dog
Erinyes
Air Archon
Fire Archon

If I understand well, it's will be better for me to replace the Erinyes by the Intellect devourer to attenuate the change of spell storm,
because "non critical formula CA bonus" are multiplicative and StormSpell will be more boosted from the Intellect devourer than the Erinyes when CA is active.

is it right or I missed something?

And I Want to know if you have tested the Perfect Vorpal versus Perfect Plague Fire?

Thanks for all your work...

gildriador

I'm a spellstorm Renegade now...

ironzerg79

In essence, yes. I think the value of Critical Severity drops with this change. I think Critical Strike is still important. But now the value of Combat Advantage rises (comparatively) so I would indeed swap the Int Dev for the Erinyes.

I know there's a couple guys here who really love crunching the math, so I'll let them weigh in on the nitty gritty.

derkesthai

I switched out storm spell for arcance presence, and dropped steal time for shard - control with shard is almost as good and the damage a little better ( I think ) Feel pretty comfy with that setup in any case

ironzerg79

Arcane Presence is a good feature, especially with the off-hand bonus.

cyrsia

Dear ironzerg,

after a long NW pause i decided to start again and just hit lvl 70 today.
I really enjoyed your guide and wanted to say thank you for the great work.
I also wanted to ask you what set i should aim for? Lostmouth or Valindra?
Lostmouth looks quite nice in terms of dmg output despite having STR on on it

ironzerg79

So...the Lostmauth set is very nice. I personally think it's due for a nerf, so I can't recommend it. Personally, I'm collecting the Valindra's set. CHA/INT + AP gain will never go out of style.

cyrsia

ironzerg79 wrote: »

So...the Lostmauth set is very nice. I personally think it's due for a nerf, so I can't recommend it. Personally, I'm collecting the Valindra's set. CHA/INT + AP gain will never go out of style.

Thanks for the quick respond! What do you think about the Black Ice set? Is the procc chance viable or is it lackluster for a CW?

ironzerg79

Black Ice Set would be nice, too...but 500k Refined BI for the cloak and belt? WHEW! That's a grind

Also, ran eToS with my guild last night, tried out my Perfect PF, and it seemed to work really well. Did less damage on the trash overall, but performance was good against Syndryth herself. Given how cheap they are, I'd probably recommend PF for new and aspiring CWs here. Having that extra debuff for the group is always a good option.

I'm working on getting a Terror Enchant together, and when it's fixed, it might be another good option thanks to the chance to root.

Over the next few days I'll also work on testing out some MoF Renegade builds, since there seems to be a lot of people wanting to go that route, and with the change to Storm Spell, that opens up more doors.

commanderdata001

According to ACT the old black ice set contributes to party with a few thousand dmg...
Pretty low.

cyrsia

ironzerg79 wrote: »

Black Ice Set would be nice, too...but 500k Refined BI for the cloak and belt? WHEW! That's a grind

Also, ran eToS with my guild last night, tried out my Perfect PF, and it seemed to work really well. Did less damage on the trash overall, but performance was good against Syndryth herself. Given how cheap they are, I'd probably recommend PF for new and aspiring CWs here. Having that extra debuff for the group is always a good option.

I'm working on getting a Terror Enchant together, and when it's fixed, it might be another good option thanks to the chance to root.

Over the next few days I'll also work on testing out some MoF Renegade builds, since there seems to be a lot of people wanting to go that route, and with the change to Storm Spell, that opens up more doors.

I also switched to PF seems very nice and like you said is is rly cheap!
Nevertheless i think i'm gonna try the lostmouth set and gamble a bit that the incoming nerf won't kill it (if so need to farm valindras than :P)

delfelugue

where you see there is a nerf ofr the lostmauth.

with this build optimized on crit this set is very good because lot of crit = lot of bonus set

i have a question about the Feytouched enchant :
- do you think is good with the lostmauth set because is damage can crit and so proc the bonus set ?

and as you can see here : http://blog.nwo-uncensored.com/cw-pve-dps-test-after-the-storm-spell-nerf/
the nerf are not insame for SS.

zickyjacks

ironzerg79 wrote: »

Black Ice Set would be nice, too...but 500k Refined BI for the cloak and belt? WHEW! That's a grind

Also, ran eToS with my guild last night, tried out my Perfect PF, and it seemed to work really well. Did less damage on the trash overall, but performance was good against Syndryth herself. Given how cheap they are, I'd probably recommend PF for new and aspiring CWs here. Having that extra debuff for the group is always a good option.

I'm working on getting a Terror Enchant together, and when it's fixed, it might be another good option thanks to the chance to root.

Over the next few days I'll also work on testing out some MoF Renegade builds, since there seems to be a lot of people wanting to go that route, and with the change to Storm Spell, that opens up more doors.

So would you recommend selling off vorpals now and take advantage of how cheap PF are?

rebellionstuff

zickyjacks wrote: »

So would you recommend selling off vorpals now and take advantage of how cheap PF are?

i am keeping myne because im still going for really high crit severity and staying with my old build it still works very well for me. might change out ss for arcane later. need to respec for that though.

thefabricant

Now that you have tried the PF, the next thing to try out is MoF

deepflight007

Hi Ironzerg,

Could you help me to understand How you maximize your Combat Advantage bonus ? I mean, seeing the ACT screenshots that you shared, I can see you have a very high and stable "Flank %" (which is, I suppose, CA, right ?). I have slotted "Nightmare Wizardry" to help on this but still I'm not able to keep such stable and high % on CA.

Any tips/advices on that subject is very welcome.

Also, I have now the very elegant & nice Zhentarim warlock to help me in my adventures, and I'm wondering if you have any recommandation to speed up the trigerring of the Companion'gifts ? For example, are you at beginning of a fight, doing something in particular like doing a cast of Ray of frost just before to rush into the fight (which could trigger the Zhentarim to start her fight and doing so to provide you companion'gift), etc, anything else like this ?

Thanks in advance,

ironzerg79

I would hold on to a Vorpal. They are ALWAYS going to be an option for SOMEONE, so whether it's a new toon on your account, or your CW right now, there's always a reason to keep a Vorpal in the stable. And who knows what the next patch or module will change, so down the line you might regret selling it.

As for the Bonding Runestone, it's based on her attacking. There's nothing you can do as a player to get her to proc it faster than just start attacking yourself. So I'll typically lead off with CoI at 80', then get in closer to start blowing stuff up, so she'll start attacking and CoI starts build Chill Stacks while I get in range to start dropping IT and ST.

aulduron

The Blink Dog and Intellect Devourer companions give CA, as do several artifacts, such as the Lantern, Black Ice Beholder, TR Sigil and others.

ironzerg79

Nightmare Wizardry is based on crit chance. The more you crit, the better the up-time. But keep in mind if it's already on the target and it refreshes, the proc won't be logged, but the bonus will stay.

ravenwings22

I am currently using your build, just have a couple of questions/some discussion.

1) Power vs Critical Strike -- what is your recommended ratio?

Is there a minimum crit (say 9k) and the rest in power?

I know you mentioned stacking crit in this mod. You previously mentioned 4:1 power:crit in an earlier comment but I wasn't sure if you were referring to the xbox version, and I'm referring to the PC version.

What do you think of this calc that I cam across:
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?866551-Optimal-allocation-of-stat-points-into-power-and-crit-in-mod-6

Putting in my stats (34.6% base critical chance, 113% crit severity) it says that I should have 9k more power than crit. Which is staggering, as I had been stacking crit to the point that it was just 2k less than power.


2) Renegade vs Thuam

I recently ran ECC and ESOT with a CW guildie who had T1/T1.5 gear when I was running full Elven T2 gear. We had about the same levels of enchants, the Lostmauth set, our artifact weapons were around the same level, her artifacts were slightly higher than mine. So for comparative purposes, we were very similar, in fact my gear was better at full T2.

She was running Thaum with EOTS slotted, I was running Renegade with SS/CP.

She was doing at least 50% more damage than I was. Question is: Was her increased dps because of my Renegade buffs, or is Thaum still out-dps-ing Renegade with similar profiles?

I know that party buffs are important and the Paingiver is just one measurement, but dps is still a fairly important measurement in the game. When we were all floundering around getting used to mod 6, I would say that party buffs are absolutely more important than personal dps. But right now I've done ECC and ETOS legit with a good team and cleared it without a single player dying. It wasn't a cakewalk but it was certainly manageable. So right now, buffing a party through to survival by the skin of our teeth seems less important.

solbergx

How are your test going ironzerg79???

ironzerg79

ravenwings22 wrote: »

2) Renegade vs Thuam

This is a good question, because it illustrates perfectly my build philosophy.

It really boils down to the concept of Total Damage vs Damage Per Second vs Effective Damage. It also deals with the "first strike" illusion when you're running with very highly geared groups.

Basically, whoever can attack first and front-load their damage as much as possible wins Paingiver. It doesn't actually have anything to do with sustained DPS, or even the quality of your build. When I run with some of my top geared teammates, the Paingiver title comes down mostly to this. And even to that point, the Paingiver only tracks how much damage you did, not how much of it was effective. For example, if you crush a monster who has 10k HP left with a 400k Disintegrate...you get 400k added to your "score" even though only 10k was effective.

But it comes down to my first rule of build-crafting: Trash is easy. Sure, you want a build that can help kill trash as fast as possible to help facilitate smooth runs, but you shouldn't build to make trash easier.

And my second rule of build-crafting: Dead bosses drop the best loot. So what you really want to measure is how much damage and/or DPS (not the same thing) is your build doing on bosses. Or ask yourself "how much am I contributing to taking down the hardest encounter in the dungeon, the final boss"?

So to answer your question. Yes, a Thaumaturge will out DPS a comparatively geared Renegade. However, a party with a Renegade will out DPS a party with a Thaumaturge, and likely significantly. But the Paingiver chart will never tell anyone this. Which answers your second question. Party buffs will ALWAYS be important. More damage is always better...and the buffs the Renegade tree is providing a % buffs, which always get better with gear level. +30% damage is always valuable. +5% critical strike is always valuable. Ensuring 95%+ uptime on Combat Advantage is always valuable. This build predates Module 6, back when we were face-rolling dungeons, and was designed primarily to help groups doing a lot of damage and moving quickly through dungeons do MORE damage and clear contest FASTER. And regardless of gear level in your group, groups that pile buffs up on each other and debuffs on the bad guys always perform better than groups with people built to only take care of themselves.

ironzerg79

solbergx wrote: »

How are your test going ironzerg79???

I'm still not super enthusiastic about MoF right now. I think when we start to see balance changes for classes slated for Module 7, I'm going to advocate for more MoF/Oppressor buffs, as I feel like those are to areas that the CW is lacking in.

Relevenant to this build, Spellstorm Renegades/Thaumaturges are perfectly fine. The nerf did lower damage, but isn't a game changer. I don't plan to make any specific updates to this guide, other than reworking some recommendations on the weapon enchantment.

onegaki101

I tested MoF and sadly the damage from smolder/rimfire still much lower than the nerfed storm spell. Storm spell is at roughly 8k~10k while Smolder/rimfire was doing 5k at best.