On the scale of things, my personnal opinion is that GF is just above SWs in the terms of class potential. I consider from my experience GFs to be the second worst class in the game after SWs, so I can see how you feel that buffing SWs will put you last position.
I have not enough experience with GFs to make a thread on how to fix that, but I think they should be buffed in some way to put em on scale with the other classes which have more pvp potential. I do know however that when I meet one I harrowstorm from the front at range while they block, shift behind them and prone them, then my team eats em up. This works 95% of the time.
thanks for reading
^^^^
+1.Thanks man you are honest.Whle the others...
Anda as said i am FOR BUFFING SWs SURVIVABILITY.BUT YOUR RANGED ATTACKS SHOULD BE SACRIFICED AT SOME PERCENTAGE.
Otherwise you will dominate especially slow classes.(GF/Dcs)
really?From my posts you understand this? i sayed and i wil say again cause some people either they do not undertand simple english or pretend they do not understand: (snip garbled rant)
I do not know how much pvp you play, but if you say these things to me that means you had not met 20-22k gs Sws.Have you?
Yes, thanks. I have one, so I know the situation from both ends. Sorry, I'm done being polite. You need to l2p, and stop shouting.
really?From my posts you understand this? i sayed and i wil say again cause some people either they do not undertand simple english or pretend they do not understand:
BUFF SWs SURVIVABILITY BUT NERF THEIR DPS.is now clear?
Cause if you insist on to buff SWs survivability and speed thaier casting times while keeping their insane dps ,then you will create a monster.
And now i will return the tables on you and to the mehguy:
I do not know how much pvp you play, but if you say these things to me that means you had not met 20-22k gs Sws.Have you?
Are they so easy to kill?Only by Trs as anyone.Seems to me that you premade ,ELO drops you vs a 14k gs pve SW you kill him in 2 seconds and say "hmm they need a buff".Get out of your glass tower there are potent Sws out there.
And wher had you read that i hads a problem with Sws?I said that i kill them but if they caught me first while i fight another guy i am doomed.cause of cursing flames something like that that does 3k dots forever..Imagine to give them more survivability while keeping their easy time 90s range phaser that goes through walls.
Gosh!!!!
still people saying about sacrificing their DPS for survivability?, If that so. lets cut off half damage done by wizards, as They are MASTERS of CC effects, not damage. And they still have survivability, of course, thanks to their CC effects and cast times. Lets reduce damage done by rogues, as they have everything needed for pvp in game, breaks ur armor, permanent hiding, ignores ur CC immunity, crazy damage. Lets tone down Righteous cleric, why? A lot damage with great healings (survivability and immunity= thanks to astral shield empowered)... Even rangers have their time to shine too. As i see things GWF and SW are the weakest now in pvp, and just read the other guys post about GF might need too.
So stop telling "sacrificing DPS", our dps is fine, its below clerics and wizards' dps. Let's be fair with each class, not giving 1 class more buffs than the rest.
21k sw here. Mostly PVP, mostly pug with the occasional PM. I have to agree with what people in this thread are saying. The class is the worst class in PVP and could use some help. There are 3 small buffs I'd like to see for warlocks that I think would put them in a good spot.
First, their personal life steal needs to not be reduced by healing depression. In PVE their survivability is spot on. They're still squishy, but if they keep dealing damage the life steal healing balances it out. But when you cut that in half, the class crumbles. It's too squishy and the healing it gets in pvp isn't enough to compensate. So they are very easy to kill. If they self healed for more, they would be able to survive much better in 1v1 situations, where currently they lose to most equally geared and skilled players. But due to their lack of CC break, they would be easy to kill 1v2 or more or 1v1 vs high CC classes like CWs or classes we can't kite like GWFs. Sounds much more balanced to me. SW should still receive healing depression on Regen, and healing from other classes like DCs, like the other classes.
Second, the cast times on lots of SW skills are too slow. CWs got a cast time reduction when the TR buff came out because the devs realized that the class would get eaten up without it. Well guess what? SW spells are even slower then CW spells were pre-buff. TRs hit you from stealth and are visible for 2 seconds. Sadly most SW skills take 2 seconds to cast, so after latency and reaction time they are invisible by the time your spell fires. This needs to change.
Third, Sprint is bad. The CC immunity is nice, but it only provides like 35% dmg reduction. But if they removed healing depression from life steal I wouldn't have a problem with that staying as is. The problem I do have is how quickly it drains and how I don't even move any faster then other classes. I haven't personally tested this, but if a TR and I race from one node to the other the ground they can cover with their dodges is equal or greater to the distance I can cover with a full sprint bar. And they're immune to damage the whole way, while I am not. This is a GWF issue as well. Sprint classes (SW/GWF) should be the mobility kings. That's supposed to be the trade off between sprint and dodges. Dodges travel a shorter distance, but are immune. Sprint you travel farther, but still take damage. Currently the distance benefit of sprint is too small. A full bar or Sprint needs to carry you like 25-50% farther then it does now. No one should be able to outrun a GWF or an SW.
21k sw here. Mostly PVP, mostly pug with the occasional PM. I have to agree with what people in this thread are saying. The class is the worst class in PVP and could use some help. There are 3 small buffs I'd like to see for warlocks that I think would put them in a good spot.
First, their personal life steal needs to not be reduced by healing depression. In PVE their survivability is spot on. They're still squishy, but if they keep dealing damage the life steal healing balances it out. But when you cut that in half, the class crumbles. It's too squishy and the healing it gets in pvp isn't enough to compensate. So they are very easy to kill. If they self healed for more, they would be able to survive much better in 1v1 situations, where currently they lose to most equally geared and skilled players. But due to their lack of CC break, they would be easy to kill 1v2 or more or 1v1 vs high CC classes like CWs or classes we can't kite like GWFs. Sounds much more balanced to me. SW should still receive healing depression on Regen, and healing from other classes like DCs, like the other classes.
Second, the cast times on lots of SW skills are too slow. CWs got a cast time reduction when the TR buff came out because the devs realized that the class would get eaten up without it. Well guess what? SW spells are even slower then CW spells were pre-buff. TRs hit you from stealth and are visible for 2 seconds. Sadly most SW skills take 2 seconds to cast, so after latency and reaction time they are invisible by the time your spell fires. This needs to change.
Third, Sprint is bad. The CC immunity is nice, but it only provides like 35% dmg reduction. But if they removed healing depression from life steal I wouldn't have a problem with that staying as is. The problem I do have is how quickly it drains and how I don't even move any faster then other classes. I haven't personally tested this, but if a TR and I race from one node to the other the ground they can cover with their dodges is equal or greater to the distance I can cover with a full sprint bar. And they're immune to damage the whole way, while I am not. This is a GWF issue as well. Sprint classes (SW/GWF) should be the mobility kings. That's supposed to be the trade off between sprint and dodges. Dodges travel a shorter distance, but are immune. Sprint you travel farther, but still take damage. Currently the distance benefit of sprint is too small. A full bar or Sprint needs to carry you like 25-50% farther then it does now. No one should be able to outrun a GWF or an SW.
Thanks for reading
1. Life steal is even more problematic for temptation locks, they get hit by healing depression twice. I don't think they'd change this mechanic for asingle class, so i think we'd need another workaround that one, even if you say is true IMO. Also warlocks bargain should not be considered life steal but another category or whatever so it's not halved in pvp, casting it barely breaks even with the amount of hp Healed, thats if it's not block deflected or dodged. Perhaps also removing the hp sacrifce if the ability is resisted/dodged would help out.
2. Yes, nothing else to add.
3. shadow walk helps that, I would prefer a dodge than the broken sprint thingie. However I've seen some really awesome suggestions out there - like adding an invisibility frame while you dodge, and return visible after your dodge. Sorta like TR and some ranger powers. Go invisible while shifting, and return visible when you stop. That would help out survival alot.
thanks for reading
I am the monk, martial skill transcends the battlefield
It is my my life style, my doctrine and my state of mind,
You fight well, but without focus and discipline, you will fall.
still people saying about sacrificing their DPS for survivability?, If that so. lets cut off half damage done by wizards, as They are MASTERS of CC effects, not damage. And they still have survivability, of course, thanks to their CC effects and cast times. Lets reduce damage done by rogues, as they have everything needed for pvp in game, breaks ur armor, permanent hiding, ignores ur CC immunity, crazy damage. Lets tone down Righteous cleric, why? A lot damage with great healings (survivability and immunity= thanks to astral shield empowered)... Even rangers have their time to shine too. As i see things GWF and SW are the weakest now in pvp, and just read the other guys post about GF might need too.
So stop telling "sacrificing DPS", our dps is fine, its below clerics and wizards' dps. Let's be fair with each class, not giving 1 class more buffs than the rest.
I lost hope of class balance, I think it's part of the devs model to make money (Make one class OP, people invest in artifacts for them, next mod another class becomes OP and current class becomes meh, people shift classes and invest again.. I'm looking at you refining system with bound stones, nerfed drops and ICDs). You might say I'm crazy or making **** up but hey, it's easy to see rogues and DC are way above the other classes right now, and GWF + SW and easily the worst ones. And still nothing has been done to change that. So can you really prove me wrong? And yes, pvp is the only end game we have, cause u can run anything in the game with 15k, which is no artifact gear or any enchants past rank 7s and T2, which is pretty easy to acquire to begin with.
I am the monk, martial skill transcends the battlefield
It is my my life style, my doctrine and my state of mind,
You fight well, but without focus and discipline, you will fall.
Just started a SW and now you guys got me pretty sad. Only played 10-19 pvp so far, and I thought it was amazing. Never did bad at all on it and many times topped the scoreboard. From what I've read so far that really drops off at some point? That's pretty depressing as I am really enjoying the class. Been switching around the classes trying to find one to fit since I don't really care for my GWF that was my main. Was thoroughly enjoying SW till I saw this thread, now it seems I will be doomed to fail in pvp once I hit at least end game.
Just started a SW and now you guys got me pretty sad. Only played 10-19 pvp so far, and I thought it was amazing. Never did bad at all on it and many times topped the scoreboard. From what I've read so far that really drops off at some point?
"At some point" is at lv 60, when the game effectively begins. Suddenly, you'll be facing people who have been playing their classes for ages, have all their abilities and something better than the scabby levelling gear. The power differential is scary enough for any class, actually. Being at the bottom of the food chain as an SW is just rubbing it in.
With good gear, you can still top the scoreboard with easier matchups- but as you climb the leaderboard, you'll discover things get awkward. I'm not saying don't do it- but if you do, go into it with your eyes open.
[Combat (Self)] Critical Hit! Geralt deals 64936 Physical Damage to you with Shocking Execution.
That was especially awesome since I could not resist or dodge it. Yay cryptic? are we ever going to get serious pvp? Is this what you so call competitive game play?
I am the monk, martial skill transcends the battlefield
It is my my life style, my doctrine and my state of mind,
You fight well, but without focus and discipline, you will fall.
I am a SW, I have no PvE content to run/farm, can I please play PvP? Daze rogues are perma CCing me even though I tried running 1.5k tenacity. I still get dazed when I stop shifting from their capstone, despite I have all those immunity messages. And I can't dodge shocking execution and it usually oneshots me no matter how much defensive stats I got. And even if it does not, executioner's capstone still just leaves me dead within a couple of seconds.
So yeah, can I play pleaaase? I mean not rolling low geared pugs into the ground that meet me for the first time but some really end competitve PvP where people know how to leave me defensless? I am getting really depressed now as I rolled my warlock because despite broken TT in PvE our class is just full zero or a TEMPTATION CONCUBINE for running 4 CWs parties, when they take pity on you. While for PvP, does it even exist for SWs? Any class maybe except for GWFs take me as I am cereal on the plate. CWs, could not entaggle her? JUST BURN HER WHILE SHE SHIFTS! HRs interrupt strike here, interrupt strike there, untergatable, untergatable DIE already. TRs, I don't even want to get started what is wrong with the class I always played before it got boosted to the state of monstrosity. Even DPS DCs have it much better than my class does, maybe is this all a dream and DPS DCs are actually warlocks? Oh and that bugged feat with +3000% weapon damage...so ****ing gg _)
Any class maybe except for GWFs take me as I am cereal on the plate. CWs, could not entaggle her? JUST BURN HER WHILE SHE SHIFTS! HRs interrupt strike here, interrupt strike there, untergatable, untergatable DIE already. TRs, I don't even want to get started what is wrong with the class I always played before it got boosted to the state of monstrosity. Even DPS DCs have it much better than my class does, maybe is this all a dream and DPS DCs are actually warlocks? Oh and that bugged feat with +3000% weapon damage...so ****ing gg _)
I can take down GWFs of my GS pretty easily if they don't use Ferocious Reaction, Harrowstorm -> Killing Flames and kite till Unstoppable is over.
Then goes HR, it's pretty even fight, because trappers are predictable and combat HRs are quite easy to kite, Warlock's Bargain -> Dread Theft works pretty well on 'em.
Then DC, Warlock's Bargain -> Dread Theft works against DPS DC, I have enough DR from 5 Dread Theft stacks to tank their dots, Harrowstorm -> Killing Flames -> Soul Scorch together with Brood of Hadar can take down Faithful DC in rare cases (when everything crits).
GF is almost unbeatable for me, I'm always getting oneshot by Ferocious Reaction multiproc or just can't pierce their block because they mostly (ab)use hard target lock (sounds hip-hopish tho).
Almost zero chances against CW, I can only kill them if there's uneven terrain or some columns or other objects I can kite around to win some time.
Absolutely zero chances against TR (does anyone have?).
To be PvP viable, SW needs their shift to be buffed or reworked, better to give an immunity frame, and their cast times to be sped up by 30-40%.
M6 almost drains your soul given how boring it is. (c) joocycuzzzzzz
I don't recommend using Dread Theft against DCs with Break the Spirit slotted. In my experiences, that was pretty much the death sentence of most SWs against my DC; it basically ensures that you're gonna get stunned.
And yea... the SW shift really needs a proper immunity.
I don't recommend using Dread Theft against DCs with Break the Spirit slotted. In my experiences, that was pretty much the death sentence of most SWs against my DC; it basically ensures that you're gonna get stunned.
And yea... the SW shift really needs a proper immunity.
Well, it's all depends, not every DC slots BtS, I've seen lots using Astral Shield+Sun Burst+Healing Word/Bastion of Health. If I see a DC and I'm sure he's DPS, I'll sprint just in case trying to "dodge" possible BtS when he pops Divine mode and only then use Warlock's Bargain->Dread Theft. They usually start to panic and dodge instead of building divinity and interrupt me with BtS. Using Dread Theft against smart DC is pointless, I agree, empowered AS eats 100% of the damage of it.
Still, I usually don't use Dread Theft nor Warlock's Bargain in PvP.
M6 almost drains your soul given how boring it is. (c) joocycuzzzzzz
Then goes HR, it's pretty even fight, because trappers are predictable and combat HRs are quite easy to kite, Warlock's Bargain -> Dread Theft works pretty well on 'em
INTERRUPTING SHOT! Or well, boar charge? No, I don't think we got some defense against that either but yeah, if we manage to dodge all of that then maybe we have chance.
Then DC, Warlock's Bargain -> Dread Theft works against DPS DC, I have enough DR from 5 Dread Theft stacks to tank their dots, Harrowstorm -> Killing Flames -> Soul Scorch together with Brood of Hadar can take down Faithful DC in rare cases (when everything crits).
Are you sure we are talking about the same DPS DCs?
GF is almost unbeatable for me, I'm always getting oneshot by Ferocious Reaction multiproc or just can't pierce their block because they mostly (ab)use hard target lock (sounds hip-hopish tho).
Yeah, but this is probably the only class I never had a problem with unless they run ferocious reaction/bloodtheft which literally INSTA kills my 46k HP warlock. I did see some decent/best GFs that can beat me without that broken stuff but there are so few of them that I'd even say good GFs are inexistant comparing to the other classes.
Almost zero chances against CW, I can only kill them if there's uneven terrain or some columns or other objects I can kite around to win some time.
haha true, some CWs usually take warlocks as a free kill and then terrain objects can play against them in a bad manner. 1vs1 scenario is really unlikely though, I don't think even with 5 tiers of sparks on my soulbinder I'd have beaten CW in 5 out of 10 cases.
Yes, shift is either need to be reworked or changed to dodge mechanics. I already gave my 2 cents in our section but all that silence is just OBLITIRATING.
P.S Usually fighting people with rank 10s/9s/perfects so...looking from that perspective. Everything maxed usually. Except for TRs
The problem with buffing a class PvP wise is the fact that it also gets buffed PvE wise.
Sadly you don't have PvE and PvP versions of spells which would be rather easy to implement. It's like with normal/empowered/divine versions of spells for clerics. Why we don't have it already is beyond my imagination.
What we get instead are changes to both playstyles which can't be compromised. Those are two different environments so effects of spells should be different for both and buffed/nerfed separately.
The problem with buffing a class PvP wise is the fact that it also gets buffed PvE wise.
Sadly you don't have PvE and PvP versions of spells which would be rather easy to implement. It's like with normal/empowered/divine versions of spells for clerics. Why we don't have it already is beyond my imagination.
That really isn't the case here, if you grasp the actual issues. It's the lack of proper immunity frames/CC/CC breaks that gimps the SW in PvP. Redesigning that would not massively unbalance PvE- even in a world where PvE balance was still even slightly relevant.
Anyway, who actually cares about PvE balance any more? Five of anything competent can steamroll an epic dungeon (well, ok, maybe not GFs, they just need carrying or euthanising ). DPS specs of most classes have enough damage output to trivialise all PvE content with fairly unremarkable gear.
Maybe if people could fail in PvE for reasons other than giant rubberbanding or gross incompetence, it would be an issue. If there were large, difficult raids where fairness in PvE was vital, it'd merit some consideration. However, it really is not, and does not.
I know, right? In one of rather popular threads someone wrote - "no one cares fo PvE anymore" and there was not even a single reply to that.
As for SW it looks like this class can't really defend itself in PvP and I say this from a PvE GWF/DC perspective with no tenacity. Casting time is awful and if you catch them with some stun or prone they are usually done. Recent buffs to DCs and TRs didn't help it either.
Yes, absolutely. Casting time is a major bugbear too. I know they sped up Harrowstorm a bit, but everything takes way too long- you have to hope that your opponent is a slightly distracted sloth, if you want breathing space.
The problem with buffing a class PvP wise is the fact that it also gets buffed PvE wise.
Sadly you don't have PvE and PvP versions of spells which would be rather easy to implement. It's like with normal/empowered/divine versions of spells for clerics. Why we don't have it already is beyond my imagination.
What we get instead are changes to both playstyles which can't be compromised. Those are two different environments so effects of spells should be different for both and buffed/nerfed separately.
I don't think damage of blitz/smoke bomb is in need of nerfing lol Also I don't believe Shocking execution is used by rogues in PvE and I rarely see TRs using immortality bloodbath cheat either. Rogues just need a few adjustments, not that bazilion of broken feats comming with piercing damage.
Yes, absolutely. Casting time is a major bugbear too. I know they sped up Harrowstorm a bit, but everything takes way too long- you have to hope that your opponent is a slightly distracted sloth, if you want breathing space.
I agree, it is not realistic to play a SW in pvp right now. I have tried everything, I went from the best dps hellbringer builds to the most defensive soulbinder builds. I'm between 18 and 19k GS and nothing cuts it, in most cases when you fight people with high regens your dps isnt high enough to finish the job fast enough then you end up fighting 3, and they murder you with a chain CC or simply by putting all their dps on your face(Solo the fight just lasts forever, you can't kill them, they can't kill you). And if you play the big DPS builds you'll get facerolled in less than a rotation by any good player (I'm saying this from a 40k HP char with reasonable defenses despite the max dps aspect).
And if some of you are still intent on playing pvp despite SW being the worst pvp class right now, this is what I would recommend, it is truely the most effective pvp setup IMO, I was able to rip trough most enemies before they realize they were dead. The only good tree in pvp is Fury. I tried every tree even damnation toroughly, and the only one that works is fury.
I played Soulbinder a long time and in pvp, it just doesn't cut it, you don't benefit from soul sparks if your fight is over in 5 seconds (you're dead) or in most cases the match lasts 1 rotation so you get such little benefits from them. It doesn't offset the gains, as soon as you leave combat for a split second (rogue went to stealth... GG soul sparks). But when I was soulbinder the most effective setup I used was a High DPS corrupt black ice with overloads using soul scorch, warlock's bargain and dreadtheft.
Soul Scorch has high damage, you can chain it, and procs creeping death. Warlock's bargain has a risk factor in it, but it's one of the best casts available regardless, high damage, instant cast and necrotic damage. Dreadtheft you may ask? I keep this slotted for as long as rogues will be OP, it follows them in stealth, and I cannot tell you how pissed off it makes some rogues to lose half their hp while my dreadtheft is hitting them in stealth. Quite hilarious really. Also, don't be afraid to cancel your dreadtheft if you're anticipating a stun, you can go back to building sparks or w/e. Although I'm no fan of soulbinders sparks because of the rate you lose them, I would still say hellbringer beats soulbinders in pvp. PvP is about burst damage and quick fights 95% of the time, soulbinder will be useful over hellbringer the other 5%.
My current and favorite build, No pity no mercy, flames of empowerment + dc artifact. Only pop your daily brood of hadar if you need a really big burst dps to take down someone really tough like a DC (wait what, not GF?...) anyways. The goal is to abuse your combat advantage damage, so run high crit (40% if you are geared up is completely do able even with constitution belt). And then do your rotation. I use vampiric embrace, dreadtheft and warlock's bargain. Curse -> Hellish Rebuke, if you crit start your rotation otherwise use a couple hand of blights to proc it. Then roll bargain's and vampiric embrace, VE will make up for the hp you sacrificed, and on High DPS builds this power will deal decent damage +100% more damage from necrotic damage not to mention temp hp and a bit of healing. Then finish off with dreatheft, at this point you will have so much creeping death stacked on them the player will simply melt up like chocolate in the sun. I've had a rogue try to finish me at 15% hp with throwing knives. He wasn't able to, I had healed from life steal and VE + bargain enough to make up for his knives damage and his HP was simply evaporating in the meanwhile, he burned down in one rotation after going to stealth my dreadtheft was already his death sentence.
This is in my opinion, the MOST effective pvp build for a SW. Fury hellbringer with high dps using VE/Life steal/bargain as defensive hp restoration options (instead of sparks) due to the short nature of fights, I find this works much more reliably than sparks. You're still going to get burned by good players because it's easy to dodge the first two casts and cancel my dreadtheft then I dont have much left. But most of the SW abilities are so easily gimped that we don't have much choice.
Think I'll insert this in the main post too, thanks for reading
I am the monk, martial skill transcends the battlefield
It is my my life style, my doctrine and my state of mind,
You fight well, but without focus and discipline, you will fall.
Yes, absolutely. Casting time is a major bugbear too. I know they sped up Harrowstorm a bit, but everything takes way too long- you have to hope that your opponent is a slightly distracted sloth, if you want breathing space.
Harrowstorm is still awful, may be the worst one. Sometimes I start to cast it and my target just walks away and the cast is interrupted for the target is out of range lol.
M6 almost drains your soul given how boring it is. (c) joocycuzzzzzz
Harrowstorm is still awful, may be the worst one. Sometimes I start to cast it and my target just walks away and the cast is interrupted for the target is out of range lol.
I think they just get bored- attention spans are finite
I think they just get bored- attention spans are finite
Very finite :P
I am the monk, martial skill transcends the battlefield
It is my my life style, my doctrine and my state of mind,
You fight well, but without focus and discipline, you will fall.
Sometimes I wonder if Devs still read posts like this ..
I am the monk, martial skill transcends the battlefield
It is my my life style, my doctrine and my state of mind,
You fight well, but without focus and discipline, you will fall.
I'm a GF and lately I have come across a number of SWs that can dish out a terrifying amount of damage.
I think we can all agree that SWs are too soft, but the last thing we need is another patch that sees us deal with a FoTM PVP beast that does insane damage and has high survivability.
They can't really have their base defensive stats buffed as they don't wear armour, so I suppose the only way to help them would be to do something with their Life Steal mechanics. Maybe buff deflection when they shift?
PSA: You don't need to grind Spinward Rise for your Elemental artifact main hand if you have some AD lying around. You can craft it via the Tyranny of Dragon's campaign screen.
biggest problem are the perma-(nub)-stealth TR´s who just take u down in seconds, always looking for the easy fast kill
so i highly recommend soulbinder fury (didn´t try damnation soulbinder for now)
setup for almost every fight is infernal orbs--> TR-autodetection in stealth + harrow storm and killing flame
tried orbs, KF+ soulscorch (insane damage) but this only works woth low or equal geared classes
Quite wrong.Their dps is extreme aswell.You play a HR right?You can dodge you have mobility.I play a GF.If the warlock locks on me with his high power phaser,my 55k hp start evaporating while blocking.If i go out of block to attack i am dead.
All of you who say that SW dps is fine ,is cause you do not faced high geared pvp SWs,cause in high level pvp they are extremely rare.In mid-high pvp i face a lot.And i can tell you they are deadly.The only thing that prevents them from dominating is their lack of cc break and slow casting times.These are the things that they ask for.I say ok,but in that case their dps have to decrease.other wise your class-HR-it will be obliterated in seconds as long DCs,GFs.
What on earth is "high level pvp" in regards to NW?
Is there some kind of tournament with specific rules about classes/builds/gear that is broadcasted live on the internet or TV? With some kind of cash prizes?
Or is this "high level pvp" you talk about actually just some kids with legendary artifacts?
What on earth is "high level pvp" in regards to NW?
Is there some kind of tournament with specific rules about classes/builds/gear that is broadcasted live on the internet or TV? With some kind of cash prizes?
Or is this "high level pvp" you talk about actually just some kids with legendary artifacts?
Yeah, thought so. Lmao, high level.. You guys..
I believe the definition of high geared PvP in this case to be, "a fight against anyone that kills me, which IMO, considering how swell a player I am, should not be happening, but it is happening, so it must mean that the game is broken".
Otherwise, it's a fantasy deity that is often invoked when someone argues something, and others demonstrate an opposite case, and then the someone will invoke this deity as in, "that only works in PuGs, it never works in high-level PvP, so I'm still right".
Comments
^^^^
+1.Thanks man
Anda as said i am FOR BUFFING SWs SURVIVABILITY.BUT YOUR RANGED ATTACKS SHOULD BE SACRIFICED AT SOME PERCENTAGE.
Otherwise you will dominate especially slow classes.(GF/Dcs)
Yes, thanks. I have one, so I know the situation from both ends. Sorry, I'm done being polite. You need to l2p, and stop shouting.
still people saying about sacrificing their DPS for survivability?, If that so. lets cut off half damage done by wizards, as They are MASTERS of CC effects, not damage. And they still have survivability, of course, thanks to their CC effects and cast times. Lets reduce damage done by rogues, as they have everything needed for pvp in game, breaks ur armor, permanent hiding, ignores ur CC immunity, crazy damage. Lets tone down Righteous cleric, why? A lot damage with great healings (survivability and immunity= thanks to astral shield empowered)... Even rangers have their time to shine too. As i see things GWF and SW are the weakest now in pvp, and just read the other guys post about GF might need too.
So stop telling "sacrificing DPS", our dps is fine, its below clerics and wizards' dps. Let's be fair with each class, not giving 1 class more buffs than the rest.
First, their personal life steal needs to not be reduced by healing depression. In PVE their survivability is spot on. They're still squishy, but if they keep dealing damage the life steal healing balances it out. But when you cut that in half, the class crumbles. It's too squishy and the healing it gets in pvp isn't enough to compensate. So they are very easy to kill. If they self healed for more, they would be able to survive much better in 1v1 situations, where currently they lose to most equally geared and skilled players. But due to their lack of CC break, they would be easy to kill 1v2 or more or 1v1 vs high CC classes like CWs or classes we can't kite like GWFs. Sounds much more balanced to me. SW should still receive healing depression on Regen, and healing from other classes like DCs, like the other classes.
Second, the cast times on lots of SW skills are too slow. CWs got a cast time reduction when the TR buff came out because the devs realized that the class would get eaten up without it. Well guess what? SW spells are even slower then CW spells were pre-buff. TRs hit you from stealth and are visible for 2 seconds. Sadly most SW skills take 2 seconds to cast, so after latency and reaction time they are invisible by the time your spell fires. This needs to change.
Third, Sprint is bad. The CC immunity is nice, but it only provides like 35% dmg reduction. But if they removed healing depression from life steal I wouldn't have a problem with that staying as is. The problem I do have is how quickly it drains and how I don't even move any faster then other classes. I haven't personally tested this, but if a TR and I race from one node to the other the ground they can cover with their dodges is equal or greater to the distance I can cover with a full sprint bar. And they're immune to damage the whole way, while I am not. This is a GWF issue as well. Sprint classes (SW/GWF) should be the mobility kings. That's supposed to be the trade off between sprint and dodges. Dodges travel a shorter distance, but are immune. Sprint you travel farther, but still take damage. Currently the distance benefit of sprint is too small. A full bar or Sprint needs to carry you like 25-50% farther then it does now. No one should be able to outrun a GWF or an SW.
Thanks for reading
1. Life steal is even more problematic for temptation locks, they get hit by healing depression twice. I don't think they'd change this mechanic for asingle class, so i think we'd need another workaround that one, even if you say is true IMO. Also warlocks bargain should not be considered life steal but another category or whatever so it's not halved in pvp, casting it barely breaks even with the amount of hp Healed, thats if it's not block deflected or dodged. Perhaps also removing the hp sacrifce if the ability is resisted/dodged would help out.
2. Yes, nothing else to add.
3. shadow walk helps that, I would prefer a dodge than the broken sprint thingie. However I've seen some really awesome suggestions out there - like adding an invisibility frame while you dodge, and return visible after your dodge. Sorta like TR and some ranger powers. Go invisible while shifting, and return visible when you stop. That would help out survival alot.
thanks for reading
It is my my life style, my doctrine and my state of mind,
You fight well, but without focus and discipline, you will fall.
More threads by me / Click on it
My Support Warlock/Temptation Thread
I lost hope of class balance, I think it's part of the devs model to make money (Make one class OP, people invest in artifacts for them, next mod another class becomes OP and current class becomes meh, people shift classes and invest again.. I'm looking at you refining system with bound stones, nerfed drops and ICDs). You might say I'm crazy or making **** up but hey, it's easy to see rogues and DC are way above the other classes right now, and GWF + SW and easily the worst ones. And still nothing has been done to change that. So can you really prove me wrong? And yes, pvp is the only end game we have, cause u can run anything in the game with 15k, which is no artifact gear or any enchants past rank 7s and T2, which is pretty easy to acquire to begin with.
It is my my life style, my doctrine and my state of mind,
You fight well, but without focus and discipline, you will fall.
More threads by me / Click on it
My Support Warlock/Temptation Thread
"At some point" is at lv 60, when the game effectively begins. Suddenly, you'll be facing people who have been playing their classes for ages, have all their abilities and something better than the scabby levelling gear. The power differential is scary enough for any class, actually. Being at the bottom of the food chain as an SW is just rubbing it in.
With good gear, you can still top the scoreboard with easier matchups- but as you climb the leaderboard, you'll discover things get awkward. I'm not saying don't do it- but if you do, go into it with your eyes open.
That was especially awesome since I could not resist or dodge it. Yay cryptic? are we ever going to get serious pvp? Is this what you so call competitive game play?
It is my my life style, my doctrine and my state of mind,
You fight well, but without focus and discipline, you will fall.
More threads by me / Click on it
My Support Warlock/Temptation Thread
So yeah, can I play pleaaase? I mean not rolling low geared pugs into the ground that meet me for the first time but some really end competitve PvP where people know how to leave me defensless? I am getting really depressed now as I rolled my warlock because despite broken TT in PvE our class is just full zero or a TEMPTATION CONCUBINE for running 4 CWs parties, when they take pity on you. While for PvP, does it even exist for SWs? Any class maybe except for GWFs take me as I am cereal on the plate. CWs, could not entaggle her? JUST BURN HER WHILE SHE SHIFTS! HRs interrupt strike here, interrupt strike there, untergatable, untergatable DIE already. TRs, I don't even want to get started what is wrong with the class I always played before it got boosted to the state of monstrosity. Even DPS DCs have it much better than my class does, maybe is this all a dream and DPS DCs are actually warlocks? Oh and that bugged feat with +3000% weapon damage...so ****ing gg _)
WTB Class Reroll please
I can take down GWFs of my GS pretty easily if they don't use Ferocious Reaction, Harrowstorm -> Killing Flames and kite till Unstoppable is over.
Then goes HR, it's pretty even fight, because trappers are predictable and combat HRs are quite easy to kite, Warlock's Bargain -> Dread Theft works pretty well on 'em.
Then DC, Warlock's Bargain -> Dread Theft works against DPS DC, I have enough DR from 5 Dread Theft stacks to tank their dots, Harrowstorm -> Killing Flames -> Soul Scorch together with Brood of Hadar can take down Faithful DC in rare cases (when everything crits).
GF is almost unbeatable for me, I'm always getting oneshot by Ferocious Reaction multiproc or just can't pierce their block because they mostly (ab)use hard target lock (sounds hip-hopish tho).
Almost zero chances against CW, I can only kill them if there's uneven terrain or some columns or other objects I can kite around to win some time.
Absolutely zero chances against TR (does anyone have?).
To be PvP viable, SW needs their shift to be buffed or reworked, better to give an immunity frame, and their cast times to be sped up by 30-40%.
I don't recommend using Dread Theft against DCs with Break the Spirit slotted. In my experiences, that was pretty much the death sentence of most SWs against my DC; it basically ensures that you're gonna get stunned.
And yea... the SW shift really needs a proper immunity.
Well, it's all depends, not every DC slots BtS, I've seen lots using Astral Shield+Sun Burst+Healing Word/Bastion of Health. If I see a DC and I'm sure he's DPS, I'll sprint just in case trying to "dodge" possible BtS when he pops Divine mode and only then use Warlock's Bargain->Dread Theft. They usually start to panic and dodge instead of building divinity and interrupt me with BtS. Using Dread Theft against smart DC is pointless, I agree, empowered AS eats 100% of the damage of it.
Still, I usually don't use Dread Theft nor Warlock's Bargain in PvP.
Yes, shift is either need to be reworked or changed to dodge mechanics. I already gave my 2 cents in our section but all that silence is just OBLITIRATING.
P.S Usually fighting people with rank 10s/9s/perfects so...looking from that perspective. Everything maxed usually. Except for TRs
WTB Class Reroll please
Sadly you don't have PvE and PvP versions of spells which would be rather easy to implement. It's like with normal/empowered/divine versions of spells for clerics. Why we don't have it already is beyond my imagination.
What we get instead are changes to both playstyles which can't be compromised. Those are two different environments so effects of spells should be different for both and buffed/nerfed separately.
That really isn't the case here, if you grasp the actual issues. It's the lack of proper immunity frames/CC/CC breaks that gimps the SW in PvP. Redesigning that would not massively unbalance PvE- even in a world where PvE balance was still even slightly relevant.
Anyway, who actually cares about PvE balance any more? Five of anything competent can steamroll an epic dungeon (well, ok, maybe not GFs, they just need carrying or euthanising
Maybe if people could fail in PvE for reasons other than giant rubberbanding or gross incompetence, it would be an issue. If there were large, difficult raids where fairness in PvE was vital, it'd merit some consideration. However, it really is not, and does not.
As for SW it looks like this class can't really defend itself in PvP and I say this from a PvE GWF/DC perspective with no tenacity. Casting time is awful and if you catch them with some stun or prone they are usually done. Recent buffs to DCs and TRs didn't help it either.
WTB Class Reroll please
I agree, it is not realistic to play a SW in pvp right now. I have tried everything, I went from the best dps hellbringer builds to the most defensive soulbinder builds. I'm between 18 and 19k GS and nothing cuts it, in most cases when you fight people with high regens your dps isnt high enough to finish the job fast enough then you end up fighting 3, and they murder you with a chain CC or simply by putting all their dps on your face(Solo the fight just lasts forever, you can't kill them, they can't kill you). And if you play the big DPS builds you'll get facerolled in less than a rotation by any good player (I'm saying this from a 40k HP char with reasonable defenses despite the max dps aspect).
And if some of you are still intent on playing pvp despite SW being the worst pvp class right now, this is what I would recommend, it is truely the most effective pvp setup IMO, I was able to rip trough most enemies before they realize they were dead. The only good tree in pvp is Fury. I tried every tree even damnation toroughly, and the only one that works is fury.
I played Soulbinder a long time and in pvp, it just doesn't cut it, you don't benefit from soul sparks if your fight is over in 5 seconds (you're dead) or in most cases the match lasts 1 rotation so you get such little benefits from them. It doesn't offset the gains, as soon as you leave combat for a split second (rogue went to stealth... GG soul sparks). But when I was soulbinder the most effective setup I used was a High DPS corrupt black ice with overloads using soul scorch, warlock's bargain and dreadtheft.
Soul Scorch has high damage, you can chain it, and procs creeping death. Warlock's bargain has a risk factor in it, but it's one of the best casts available regardless, high damage, instant cast and necrotic damage. Dreadtheft you may ask? I keep this slotted for as long as rogues will be OP, it follows them in stealth, and I cannot tell you how pissed off it makes some rogues to lose half their hp while my dreadtheft is hitting them in stealth. Quite hilarious really. Also, don't be afraid to cancel your dreadtheft if you're anticipating a stun, you can go back to building sparks or w/e. Although I'm no fan of soulbinders sparks because of the rate you lose them, I would still say hellbringer beats soulbinders in pvp. PvP is about burst damage and quick fights 95% of the time, soulbinder will be useful over hellbringer the other 5%.
My current and favorite build, No pity no mercy, flames of empowerment + dc artifact. Only pop your daily brood of hadar if you need a really big burst dps to take down someone really tough like a DC (wait what, not GF?...) anyways. The goal is to abuse your combat advantage damage, so run high crit (40% if you are geared up is completely do able even with constitution belt). And then do your rotation. I use vampiric embrace, dreadtheft and warlock's bargain. Curse -> Hellish Rebuke, if you crit start your rotation otherwise use a couple hand of blights to proc it. Then roll bargain's and vampiric embrace, VE will make up for the hp you sacrificed, and on High DPS builds this power will deal decent damage +100% more damage from necrotic damage not to mention temp hp and a bit of healing. Then finish off with dreatheft, at this point you will have so much creeping death stacked on them the player will simply melt up like chocolate in the sun. I've had a rogue try to finish me at 15% hp with throwing knives. He wasn't able to, I had healed from life steal and VE + bargain enough to make up for his knives damage and his HP was simply evaporating in the meanwhile, he burned down in one rotation after going to stealth my dreadtheft was already his death sentence.
This is in my opinion, the MOST effective pvp build for a SW. Fury hellbringer with high dps using VE/Life steal/bargain as defensive hp restoration options (instead of sparks) due to the short nature of fights, I find this works much more reliably than sparks. You're still going to get burned by good players because it's easy to dodge the first two casts and cancel my dreadtheft then I dont have much left. But most of the SW abilities are so easily gimped that we don't have much choice.
Think I'll insert this in the main post too, thanks for reading
It is my my life style, my doctrine and my state of mind,
You fight well, but without focus and discipline, you will fall.
More threads by me / Click on it
My Support Warlock/Temptation Thread
Harrowstorm is still awful, may be the worst one. Sometimes I start to cast it and my target just walks away and the cast is interrupted for the target is out of range lol.
I think they just get bored- attention spans are finite
Very finite :P
It is my my life style, my doctrine and my state of mind,
You fight well, but without focus and discipline, you will fall.
More threads by me / Click on it
My Support Warlock/Temptation Thread
It is my my life style, my doctrine and my state of mind,
You fight well, but without focus and discipline, you will fall.
More threads by me / Click on it
My Support Warlock/Temptation Thread
Ofc they do. Didn't you see those AMAZING (sarcasm) new feats and class features?
I think we can all agree that SWs are too soft, but the last thing we need is another patch that sees us deal with a FoTM PVP beast that does insane damage and has high survivability.
They can't really have their base defensive stats buffed as they don't wear armour, so I suppose the only way to help them would be to do something with their Life Steal mechanics. Maybe buff deflection when they shift?
so i highly recommend soulbinder fury (didn´t try damnation soulbinder for now)
setup for almost every fight is infernal orbs--> TR-autodetection in stealth + harrow storm and killing flame
tried orbs, KF+ soulscorch (insane damage) but this only works woth low or equal geared classes
What on earth is "high level pvp" in regards to NW?
Is there some kind of tournament with specific rules about classes/builds/gear that is broadcasted live on the internet or TV? With some kind of cash prizes?
Or is this "high level pvp" you talk about actually just some kids with legendary artifacts?
Yeah, thought so. Lmao, high level.. You guys..
I believe the definition of high geared PvP in this case to be, "a fight against anyone that kills me, which IMO, considering how swell a player I am, should not be happening, but it is happening, so it must mean that the game is broken".
Otherwise, it's a fantasy deity that is often invoked when someone argues something, and others demonstrate an opposite case, and then the someone will invoke this deity as in, "that only works in PuGs, it never works in high-level PvP, so I'm still right".
I'm still not sure which one it is, sir.
Actually they wear leather armor just like rogues and rangers in the game.