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25 man raid coming OMG

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  • commanderdata001commanderdata001 Member Posts: 307 Bounty Hunter
    edited October 2014
    Time to buy new video card I guess?
  • edited October 2014
    This content has been removed.
  • liliadnaliliadna Member Posts: 96
    edited October 2014
    bah I hope they won't release 25man dungeon, what a horror... sometimes it's hard to form 5man party imagine how long it'll take to get 25 man...

    also if there will be 5 parties of 5 players, what happens if one group fail? does it mean fail for everyone or just the head going to fight another group so they have to face two heads?

    I really don't want this game turn to wow like copy when you need certain classes/builds to finish and wait 1-2hours to form a raid and then almost always tank or healer gets called out (dinner time!, jeez kids...) so yeah, I am quite satisfied with the way things are now, except they should make more difficult dungeon for like 17k+ GS which actually would require some effort, but 5 man, not 25... do you know how many players will die there? It's hard enough to rely on 4 other players not on 24
  • wimpazoidwimpazoid Member Posts: 504 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    If there is a queue for the raid, there should NOT be a class priority at all. The horror of waiting for the queue to pop...
  • yokanaanyokanaan Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 151 Bounty Hunter
    edited October 2014
    liliadna wrote: »
    bah I hope they won't release 25man dungeon, what a horror... sometimes it's hard to form 5man party imagine how long it'll take to get 25 man...

    also if there will be 5 parties of 5 players, what happens if one group fail? does it mean fail for everyone or just the head going to fight another group so they have to face two heads?
    Managing a group of 25 players would be indeed extremely difficult - even for guildies and for now it's impossible to make a 25-man party. I don't think it would mean fail for everyone since dragon would still turn after losing 1/5 hp. It would be more difficult to kill the boss (20 ppl instead of 25) cause it shares one hp bar for the whole raid since it's one huge boss.

    As for fighting with 2 heads if one group fails - maybe they do it that way and then after dragon turns one of parties will have to fight with two heads and other three will still fight with one head ;)
    Or maybe this head would hit all parties from time to time during their fights with other heads. That way all parties would know that something went wrong and level of difficulty would be the same for all remaining parties at the same time.
  • mehguy138mehguy138 Member Posts: 1,803 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    More like Lag of Rubberband eh? Isn't it too much a 25 man raid plus mobs? Lots of players get huge lags in GG while there are only 20 players, and we all remember those sweet invisible mobs at the Beholder.

    I think we need an option to disable VFX, because I'm sure this game's engine won't handle 25 man raid properly.
    M6 almost drains your soul given how boring it is. (c) joocycuzzzzzz
  • naicalusnaicalus Member Posts: 645 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    Oh gods, dragon HEs are already horrible lagfests that make my graphics card cry.

    And the misery of PUGs... *shudder*

    I don't even have a bad computer anymore. It's not high end but it's not bad either:

    Intel Core i5-4690K
    8GB DDR3 PC1600 RAM
    Radeon R9 270X 4GB
    NW and Windows are both on my SSD.

    And still it gets into a miserable lagfest.
    Largely inactive, playing Skyforge as Nai Calus.
  • rashylewizzrashylewizz Member Posts: 4,265 Bounty Hunter
    edited October 2014
    mehguy138 wrote: »
    More like Lag of Rubberband eh? Isn't it too much a 25 man raid plus mobs? Lots of players get huge lags in GG while there are only 20 players, and we all remember those sweet invisible mobs at the Beholder.

    Most lags in GG usually only come from players using Knight's Valor. Other than that, its been pretty manageable.
  • liliadnaliliadna Member Posts: 96
    edited October 2014
    mehguy138 wrote: »
    More like Lag of Rubberband eh? Isn't it too much a 25 man raid plus mobs? Lots of players get huge lags in GG while there are only 20 players, and we all remember those sweet invisible mobs at the Beholder.

    I think we need an option to disable VFX, because I'm sure this game's engine won't handle 25 man raid properly.

    there are actually 40 players in GG (20 each side)
  • iambecks1iambecks1 Member Posts: 4,044 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    I am starting to think that the 25 men will be divided up into five groups of five , thinking about 25 players with all the adds needed to make this even slightly challenging all on screen at the same time the game just would not run in it's current form , not being negative and I really appreciate the developers trying but 25 men fighting on screen at once might be too much.
    YourSecretsAreOurSecrets.gif
  • mconosrepmconosrep Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    iambecks1 wrote: »
    I am starting to think that the 25 men will be divided up into five groups of five , thinking about 25 players with all the adds needed to make this even slightly challenging all on screen at the same time the game just would not run in it's current form , not being negative and I really appreciate the developers trying but 25 men fighting on screen at once might be too much.

    I really hope so - a lot of players currently get lag frozen fighting the normal ToD Dragons.


    It would have been much better to start with a 10 men raid then work up, but I am guessing the Dev's hands were somewhat tied by WoTC obligations.
  • liliadnaliliadna Member Posts: 96
    edited October 2014
    iambecks1 wrote: »
    I am starting to think that the 25 men will be divided up into five groups of five , thinking about 25 players with all the adds needed to make this even slightly challenging all on screen at the same time the game just would not run in it's current form , not being negative and I really appreciate the developers trying but 25 men fighting on screen at once might be too much.

    I don't think this game is capable of having 25man groups. Poor guy in front who will agro those mobs, almost instant death, unless
    a)its a GF which makes this class mandatory for the raid
    b)mobs do so pityful dmg that you won't notice being hit by 40+mobs
    c) there will be some sort of mechanic that single player cannot be attacked by more than 5 mobs simultaneously at a time

    also the lag would be a major problem so they would have to surpass other players spell effects so you would only see yours (as I suggested in other thread) and those beneficial/harmful to you such a astral shield or monsters attack zones other effect will display at minimal setting while you'll be able to see yours effects at settings you desire (if 8 players put icy terrain all over the place and another two put down astral shield or that whatsits name DC daily you pretty much won't be able to recognize any red zones)
  • iambecks1iambecks1 Member Posts: 4,044 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    liliadna wrote: »
    I don't think this game is capable of having 25man groups.

    Yeah I totally agree , we have all seen what happens to the game when you have 20 men in one spot with one dragon , now make that 25 men spamming skills and dailies and maybe 30-40 adds including elites , I just don't see how it is possible with the current game engine even if everybody turns settings to bare minimum but we will see .

    The raid description seems to hint that the raid will be split up into several smaller parties so I am leaning towards it being five groups of five working together somehow? no idea how that will work in neverwinter though xD all I do know is that getting the new artifact belt and offhand could end up being a real chore unless you have a rather long friends list full of reliable people xD
    YourSecretsAreOurSecrets.gif
  • mehguy138mehguy138 Member Posts: 1,803 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    liliadna wrote: »
    there are actually 40 players in GG (20 each side)

    So math, much calculation, I'm idiot, thanks XD

    I also think that 25 players will be separated into 5 man groups over the large location. May be GG like map, a couple of objectives you have to complete in order to get to the boss.
    M6 almost drains your soul given how boring it is. (c) joocycuzzzzzz
  • diogene0diogene0 Member Posts: 2,894 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    liliadna wrote: »
    I don't think this game is capable of having 25man groups. Poor guy in front who will agro those mobs, almost instant death, unless
    a)its a GF which makes this class mandatory for the raid
    b)mobs do so pityful dmg that you won't notice being hit by 40+mobs
    c) there will be some sort of mechanic that single player cannot be attacked by more than 5 mobs simultaneously at a time

    also the lag would be a major problem so they would have to surpass other players spell effects so you would only see yours (as I suggested in other thread) and those beneficial/harmful to you such a astral shield or monsters attack zones other effect will display at minimal setting while you'll be able to see yours effects at settings you desire (if 8 players put icy terrain all over the place and another two put down astral shield or that whatsits name DC daily you pretty much won't be able to recognize any red zones)

    Well if it's a 25 players fight I do hope a couple of GFs and clerics are required at the very least. It would be a complete waste if it were another CW doing lifesteal tanking thing. Also, not seeing other people's animations, no thank you. Many good players rely on that to evaluate the situation. This would require to dumb down the game even more do abysmal levels. :)

    The only time I get lag doing dragon encounters is when a GF is using knight's valor. Other than that there's no real issue with visual effects but I have a gaming rig so idk.
  • xgrandz02xgrandz02 Member Posts: 702 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    Just 10k for an Epic Tiamat this is SADD :( come on, it's a Legendary dragon!!
    10k Sounds like hes weak just with alot of HealthPoints,

    PLS dont make Tiamat to a trash dragon,
    PLS do not stuck tiamat on one place like the other dragon,
    PLS give tiamat more mobility more freedom during the Fight!

    sound a bit disappoint here,

    13k - 15k GS for Tiamat
    10 - 15 Players to join


    "Tiamat is a supremely strong and powerful draconic goddess in the Dungeons & Dragons ".
    do not destroy him-
    <::::::[]==0 GwF 0==[]::::::> ● Still waiting for the promised Improvement ●
  • vasdamasvasdamas Member Posts: 2,461 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    Reminds me of BI beholder during the first days of m3 realese...
  • ohellkungoohellkungo Member Posts: 43 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    i hope my PC can handle it.
  • liliadnaliliadna Member Posts: 96
    edited October 2014
    diogene0 wrote: »
    Well if it's a 25 players fight I do hope a couple of GFs and clerics are required at the very least. It would be a complete waste if it were another CW doing lifesteal tanking thing. Also, not seeing other people's animations, no thank you. Many good players rely on that to evaluate the situation. This would require to dumb down the game even more do abysmal levels. :)

    The only time I get lag doing dragon encounters is when a GF is using knight's valor. Other than that there's no real issue with visual effects but I have a gaming rig so idk.

    well I don't have lag per say either, but when 20+characters beating a dragon sometimes area effects causes not to draw themselves or end up as a mass flashing pool of white color (got better when I reduced amount of light points per effect) but still, I have really good computer, can play any game on highest details without lag and with my 30Mb connection I doubt the problem is on my end

    and for the GF/DCs this game so far is based on that you don't need specific class to play the content (thanks goddess for that) so it would greatly degraded the game they made so far. Who wants to see another game when tanks get cocky cos they are needed the most?
  • ulvielulviel Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 741 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    I don't think people were asking for content with pitiful drop rates.

    They've asked for at least 10 man raids, that's for sure. I personally was never convinced it would be good... but on the other hand, most decisions Cryptic makes recently make me facepalm.

    Still, i'm looking forward to see how do they do that, counting for a good laugh.
  • ulvielulviel Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 741 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    xgrandz02 wrote: »
    Just 10k for an Epic Tiamat this is SADD :( come on, it's a Legendary dragon!!
    10k Sounds like hes weak just with alot of HealthPoints,

    PLS dont make Tiamat to a trash dragon,
    PLS do not stuck tiamat on one place like the other dragon,
    PLS give tiamat more mobility more freedom during the Fight!

    sound a bit disappoint here,

    13k - 15k GS for Tiamat
    10 - 15 Players to join


    "Tiamat is a supremely strong and powerful draconic goddess in the Dungeons & Dragons ".
    do not destroy him-

    Tiamat is a SHE!
  • germmaniacgermmaniac Member Posts: 204 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    iambecks1 wrote: »
    Oh my oh my oh my !!!

    B6tsH4G.jpg
    Awesome, finally something new to wait eagerly for.

    And to address the GS concerns that a lot seem to be raising (have not read all 7 pages of this thread, just a couple, so excuse me if I am missing something), would be nice if the made the 10k as Normal mode and 13-15k as an Epic mode (much like current SoT and LoL).

    And lag, well, we may just have to live with. 25 seems like a decent number, although I would have settled for a 10-15 man raid as well.
  • nekromaniak666nekromaniak666 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 94
    edited October 2014
    25 man raids were one of the main reasons why i left WoW..
    i am so happy with 5 man dungeons/skirmishes but was hoping for 10 man really big dungeon with really valuable rewards and really tough enemies..
    if more and more upcoming events will be designed for 25 man party then i have bad feeling about future of this game..
    i think even organized pve guild will have problem to manage so big party and not talking about complety created full party from pug
    [SIGPIC]Hellsing[/SIGPIC]
  • ulvielulviel Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 741 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    25 man raids were one of the main reasons why i left WoW..
    i am so happy with 5 man dungeons/skirmishes but was hoping for 10 man really big dungeon with really valuable rewards and really tough enemies..
    if more and more upcoming events will be designed for 25 man party then i have bad feeling about future of this game..
    i think even organized pve guild will have problem to manage so big party and not talking about complety created full party from pug

    If you are worrying that pugs won't be able to finish it, then just... don't. I seriously doubt it will be much harder than a dragon HE. If dfficulty will be any problem there, it's because it'll be too low, you'll see.
  • diogene0diogene0 Member Posts: 2,894 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    i think even organized pve guild will have problem to manage so big party and not talking about complety created full party from pug

    Well managing a big group isn't a problem if you set up some rules. I've lead groups of more people than that on other games, all you need is a bit of discipline on voice chat. When it's light on action, everyone is free to talk about whatever they want. When it's getting hot, the leader gives instructions and people relay intel in a short manner. That's less terrific than it seems and quite enjoyable when you can achieve something truly epic. :)

    But hey it's neverwinter, one year after release. 10k is pirate king level content. The game used to offer challenges, but it's not happening anymore. I'm pretty sure it's going to be yet another casual snoozefest just like dragon encounters. :)
  • ironzerg79ironzerg79 Member, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 4,942 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    I'd like to actually see it before I waste pages and pages of text complaining.
    "Meanwhile in the moderator's lounge..."
    i7TZDZK.gif?1
  • weyasago123weyasago123 Member Posts: 14 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    ironzerg79 wrote: »
    I'd like to actually see it before I waste pages and pages of text complaining.

    True that. I can't understand the hate and negativity about something that is not even implemented yet.
  • ulvielulviel Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 741 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    True that. I can't understand the hate and negativity about something that is not even implemented yet.

    Unfortunately, *I* can understand that. The reason is, so many things that were released since, let's say, mod3 were a huge disapointment. Although @ironzerg79 shows a common sense here.
  • froszztfroszzt Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 284 Bounty Hunter
    edited October 2014
    No need to say your PC specs. It's not your PC that is too weak, it's bad code and a crappy old game engine.

    Fight a dragon with a lot of people and even my PC screams for help. Although I play on highest settings, but if I can run BF4 Ultra in 120hz/fps stable, then NW shouldn't be an issue. Yet, it is.
  • jorifice1jorifice1 Member Posts: 1,042 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    True that. I can't understand the hate and negativity about something that is not even implemented yet.

    So you don't understand the Internet ;)

    Sorry.
    Couldn't resist.
    But, yeah, got to agree with you there.
    Doesn't seem to be any real Game Killers, so chill out, wait and see.
    THEN unleash the Kraken.

    'Wen considered the nature of time and understood that the universe is, instant by instant, recreated anew. Therefore, he understood, there is in truth no past, only a memory of the past. Blink your eyes, and the world you see next did not exist when you closed them. Therefore, he said, the only appropriate state of the mind is surprise. The only appropriate state of the heart is joy. The sky you see now, you have never seen before. The perfect moment is now. Be glad of it.' Terry Pratchet The Thief Of Time
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