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Cleric changes have been posted in the Feedback section
lyaise
Member Posts: 491 Arc User
Title says it all, read 'em and weep or dance for joy.....now to take a look.
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?773411-Official-Feedback-Thread-Devoted-Cleric-Changes
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?773411-Official-Feedback-Thread-Devoted-Cleric-Changes
...............vote for your favourite expansion..........
"Mod 6. Oh my f****** god. It gutted the game pure and simple. And what wasn't gutted was messed up by the poorly thought out new level cap and equip. The game never recovered from that atrocity".
..............not this one then.............
"Mod 6. Oh my f****** god. It gutted the game pure and simple. And what wasn't gutted was messed up by the poorly thought out new level cap and equip. The game never recovered from that atrocity".
..............not this one then.............
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"Mod 6. Oh my f****** god. It gutted the game pure and simple. And what wasn't gutted was messed up by the poorly thought out new level cap and equip. The game never recovered from that atrocity".
..............not this one then.............
The rest of the healing spells is garbage for dungeons. So what is left, now you are force to play full buff/debuff no more full healing builds. Wow nice way to screw up a class thanks Devs.
I would say it much too early to judge right now.
But based on what i have read right now it seems as if they took the healing from FF, and astral shield and divide them between the other encounters, the words are just rewarded to make things seems like they have been made better, in other words it basically what they did
Scenario "You heal your allies for 70% more" sounds alot better than "Your own healing spells are 40% less effective on you"
Well I guess we'll see. I expect there will be a ton of change between initial release and (mostly) finished product.
I will wait till it's been out awhile and settled down.. then do my only respec. If it stays like this, I guess it will be the dps path. The DPS will probably be laughable but who cares if all I am doing is soloing stuff, right? XD
Now I am just going to watch, and say nothing else until I see.
Let's hope the divinity generation will be GREATLY increased..
With Divine Advantage gone, Astral Seal lost much of its value.
I hope the replacements feats make up for much more..
That right there is kind of huge. I think everyone can imagine that for themselves and no need for me to add more to it. Except.. are those at wills really doing anything of value apart from div-gen?
Blessing of Battle paragon at-will's kinda got a nice effect of 6 % DR for 10 sec and an additional 15% Power to self & surrounding when feated... But the long cast time & really small AoE make me wanna puke..
Divinity generation is somewhat slow and cancelable, because the target might die first before it hits, also latency issue in some country made it even worst.
Besides that, Sacred Flame 3rd strike's temp HP LITTLE healing is gonna be at an awkward & hilarious situation... Was supposed to work in synergy with one of our feat (deepstone), but now that the feats gonna be reworked, i cant say much.
No single at-wills worthy of damage, no AoE at-wills either... So yea, i think it's only for div-gen only (while also as a poor means to spread debuff from enchant + HP set)
These are the headline changes that make me just shake my head at the dev's decision making.
Why?
Why did they have try and re-invent the wheel? We had precious few abilities that where our signature skills - and a bunch of ignored of under-performing ones. So what happens?....... the above happens.
Why introduce a new Empowered ability layer? We will now have to cast X to cast Y to cast Z - to get the best on every ability?
Righteousness mechanic?.....
At Will damage levels? - considering this is now the only way to build Div.
Heroic feats?
I just hope that there is enough feedback given to get things altered before these reach the live server.
"Mod 6. Oh my f****** god. It gutted the game pure and simple. And what wasn't gutted was messed up by the poorly thought out new level cap and equip. The game never recovered from that atrocity".
..............not this one then.............
Take out the extra mode (s), make things less complicated, and start from there.
Looks like this is going to take awhile:(
Venril- SW
Lurch- GF
Mini Ven- DC
Performs like a buff stack to you and me but is going to be a PITA explaining it to new players, which I've been doing a lot of.
Venril- SW
Lurch- GF
Mini Ven- DC
I'm eager to try these changes out... What do you think is the better healing feat for pvp? the regen / the burst?
Divine mode spells are less powerful than the normal version of spells. Divine has no CD and no shared CD with the normal version. Which means you can cast the same spell twice in a row. Effects of normal/divine already stack on live, so that shouldn't change.
There aren't many heals but the ones we get seem really, really powerful, especially healing word. This spell, when it crits, can already heal someone from 1 HP to full HP in no time. What I read from the preview thing is that it's going to be an aoe spell like sudden storm (a line in front of you); hopefully the visual feedback will be good to know where we cast it (if it's not, complain).
Yes AS is getting a huge nerf. I'm not completely sure about the effects of the empowered version, but if it's a one-off effect, like, -800 damage taken on one hit and be done with empowered, that's the kind of thing we can legitimately complain about. Like asking for -800 every 0.5s or something like that. AS doesn't deserve to be that bad.
Don't forget divine glow getting a heal, and the new healing feats seem quite strong. So i don't know it needs testing, I'll surely miss my hybrid cleric doing a bit of everything. With the current patch notes the new encounters I see myself using are
Healing word, Divine glow, Astral shield. Maybe FF for buffs instead of healing word if team doesn't need a strong heal.
I won't miss sunburst, it was good because it was aoe and made a ton of divinity but now that it comes from at-wills I don't see why I'd keep using it. Except in pvp. The divine mode made the default mode is a godsend for pvp. Don't ruin that people, please. Thanks.
And... temporary points eveywhere instead of heals? A cleric who heals not, that's not what DnD says.
Tired of Dailies/Tyranny of Dailies/Timers of Doom/Tricked Or Duped/Tremendously Obnoxious Dailies/Try Otherwise, Devs
I will test, but this doesnt make the supposed secondary controller class, any more of a controller, nor is there any way to break or resist CC.
Thats my 2 cents.
I dont like the FF change, but maybe it doesnt matter.
Ashield seems dead to me, which is ok, I hated the the spot mechanic.
Still wish some of the actual heroic feats were played with , in addtion to some of the powers mechanics being changed.
and to answer a question.. no I dont see lance of faith as useful, unless it is the top divinity generator, until we test , we cannot know.
I like what I'm seeing a lot. Is it better than before? No, but it is different. I see a lot of this as a lateral side-grade, rather than an upgrade. There is a lot more synergy working here and I do like what I'm seeing - and I am reading it in groups of affects, not line by-line.
You have to step back a little and look at the big picture of each tree to see how everything works together better than before. previously everything was more or less hodge-podge and each encounter, power, whatever was kind of a stand-alone that we manually hobbled together. Now different parts are specifically designed to work together - as it should be.
As for the big bomb that is "divine sun burst is the new black": I LIKE that idea. Too many people are presuming doom and gloom because you predict mobs being knocked away from melee party members all the time. Seriously? That's your worry?
Sure, it's happen - for level 10 players. But c'mon, give people a little more credit will you? First of all this knock back is massively useful during solo-play while leveling. By the time a player gets to 60 they'll know not to knock away mobs in party play, except for when I'm kiting two or three mob groups because the melee types are at the boss and the CW and SW are busy in that direction - I can have a little more survivability. Knocking back my kiting mobs will have minimal effect on the rest of the party (else I wouldn't be kiting them, right?)
Don't knock it (sorry, just realized the pun) until you've actually play-tested. The predictive doom-and-gloom nonsense is numbing. Really. Stop whining and give it a go. You might find out those vegetables don't taste so bad after all.
What I am seeing in almost every 'negative' comment about these changes is the commentator really saying "I am scared of change". In real life it's 'adapt or die' - so apply some of that here.
For the record, as wrong as you are by presuming things you don't have a clue about me: I am saying it IS a big deal - for the BETTER. Seriously, is that the best rebuttal you can come-up with: a personal attack on me?
I have three Clerics and contemplating starting a fourth. My main is a Cleric since February 8th, 2013. You don't know me from Adam so your comment is ridiculously uncalled-for. If what I like and appreciate isn't what you like and appreciate does not make you right and me wrong. I like and appreciate this change. if you don't then learn to adapt; change your play-style. Or are you "afraid of change"?
I'm not here to debate. I'm here to say hey: if you don't like something about it that doesn't mean everyone else agrees with you. Just as you've stated: there was a choice of when to "knock back" using the Sun Burst encounter. Well, there's still a choice: use the Sun Burst encounter in its new state or use something else. Kwitcherbichenaboutit.
I'm not saying your dislike of the change is wrong. I'm saying *I* like the change and you attempt to plonk me for that? Grow-up, please. There are many play-style adjustments we all have to make, that's just the fact of things.
We've all been beotching about the DC status for 18 months, now they finally give us some DevLuv and everyone flies off the handle beotching about it. Make-up our freaking minds. Please.
I'm happy for ALL the changes for no reason other than they are *changes*. How they look on paper and how they actually play-out is yet to be seen. I'm just saying that on paper they look mostly pretty good to me. I reserve the right to change my mind once I'm able to get a hands-on. But accusing me of not knowing what I'm talking about and having "not played the class" is a cheap shot by you. Let me guess: do you even play anything other than PvP? Don't answer: it's a rhetorical question. PvP Ain't all that and I'd personally not cry about it if it were deleted from the game entirely (like they finally did in STO) - but that doesn't mean I'm asking for that.
Until any of us actually get a hands-on experience this entire "debate" is academic at best.
You raise your voice when you should reinforce your argument. Read what you're writing and have a good laugh while you're at it.
@Devs: I like what I see *as a whole*. Obviously testing needs to be done and there will need to be tweaks here and there, possibly even some outright changes. But for a first-pass spec-sheet: it's a pretty darned good starting-base to begin working from.
The fact that we could "hybridize" our skills is what made us viable. We did not need an overhaul to the class with an EXTRA mechanic, turning us into button mashers, just some well-thought-out adjustments to make what we had more powerful.
@angrysprite: Sorry bro...I didnt mean to lash out like that. Please accept my apology. I am against personal attacks.
Ok, I will put my case for why always knock back effect is poorer, and hopefully you can put your case for why the always knock back is better.
Currently we have a choice, use the ability whilst keeping a clustered group to the advantage of other group members, or yourself if you are sequencing skills.
Or use the DV option to clear the mobs, sometimes over walkways/cliffs etc.
We can do either of these. Over to you.....
"Mod 6. Oh my f****** god. It gutted the game pure and simple. And what wasn't gutted was messed up by the poorly thought out new level cap and equip. The game never recovered from that atrocity".
..............not this one then.............
There will be other/better choices in pve anyway. Why fighting to keep a supbar power? Sunburst is great as a divinity builder/foresight spammer. There are other ways to spam foresight, like astral seal. And divinity moved to at-wills. If you want an hybrid damage/healing spell, check out divine glow. There's an extra debuff effect. If you want more buffs, just pick FF instead of sunburst, if you want more heals, healing word.
There's no need to fight to get back a supbar pve spell because that's what it's going to be anyway, knockback or not. But with the KB it's becoming a *good* control spell. We shouldn't complain about getting a good CC spell, especially for pvp purposes.
Seriously, if you guys get it your way, it's going to be a nerf to sunburst, and you'll notice after a few days that in the new meta it's worthless. Don't ruin the changes because you don't get the whole picture. This is one of the few good changes we have for now. Please.
Your reasoning is fair.
Here's mine as to why I appreciate the change in mechanic as written (I don't know about how it plays yet):
75% of my play is solo - having this change allows me to use the encounter the way I prefer to use it; it is only used when mobs gang-up on me and I need a little space. Other than that all the current version does is deal very little damage and sprinkle a little healing on me. It's only as useful as it is, but not so great. I believe the knock back is more useful for this type of encounter. We have practically no AoE encounters, this simply changes what was a 'pretend' AoE and turns it into a "real" AoE.
100% of the time during solo play, part of the time (situationally) during group play, and in PvP as desired (I suppose).
Hence, I believe for THIS encounter the new function is more useful more often than the old old function (meaning I have to charge-up then "waste" divinity to get the effect I really want). This is my play-style and I get it if it's not your play-style. As for those who do not like the new mechanic I believe there are other alternate encounters than can be considered in it's place.
So for me, I consider this a huge change, a "big deal" but in a positive way. I have no interest in changing anyone's mind and I respect others' dislike of the new mechanic.
My primary point is this: please always remember that something you may dislike may be liked by others (I'm not a fan of many so-called BiS encounters myself - but I recognize how and why others consider them BiS).
Edit to add: the primary use of the Sun burst in a party as it is right now is more or less as a group heal as it seems to do so little damage and it has a very small radius to truly be that useful (non-divinity version) - adding the knock-back effect as a default adds to the "standard" usefulness of the encounter the way I see it.
I suspect many are looking at the few-and-far between "bad case" examples where a mob might be scattered when that's not wanted, and I agree - that's bad. But I think the usefulness aspect will occur a lot more often when scattering is a good thing... more often than when you don't want a scatter (100% of play time, not just counting party play). As for heals: we all agree that's almost a moot point with Life Steal and Warlock's DPS mechanic and all that, so the healing aspect isn't and never was a very useful part of the mechanic in it's own right.
I also think that we should measure PVE using dungeons and skirmish, not solo play.
Of course, there might be other skills much better than sunburst for group PVE runs that this discussion is moot.
the reason i like sunburst is the following : it is actually an easy way to put stack of high prophet on several mobs, without taking care of your placement, the whole thing in dungeons and skirmishes of course. In this case, knockback was not useful at all.
the reason knockback should be removed in my point of view from the news: the only viable tree in the new things for mid-end game cleric is the DPS one, as nobody else needs heals anymore (or only the 10k freshly 60), and at 15k, i don't even put healing spells anymore when i solo. By the way, one cool thing would be to proc the feat regarding the DoT effect and in those purpose, sunburst is one of the only useful spell (after divine glow if i remember correctly the changes) to do such DoT on multiple targets. So, in those way to construct my future character, sunburst is a must-have, and as the same as above, that won't be profitable for dungeons if i just knockback everything.
finally, i would say that i hope the cleric will be able to do freaking dps combined with buff/debuff, or i'll just have to change of main character to go on a CW....
Just by reading the changes, I can tell you its not going to be another dps class. It will do more dps, its like the GF, they do more then they used to, but they are not going to compete with the others.
The problem is that every class except the GF/DC are dps basically and even with these changes. GFS and DC's will/are useful, but not needed for current meta for anything if you have enough of a skilled/geared group.
This isnt me saying, you cant use them, nor do they not benefit the group, its just not needed.