I dont know why the dev consider it WAI, but the calculation is broken, it calculate its damage based on your power value and then get buffed by it afterward , in case you have 5k power it deals 65% of your power value actualy, if you have 10k power it will deal 80% of your power value and keeps increasing as you increase your power, and then get buffed by other modifiers like STR, CA, CS, Mark ... etc. I think the best fixe is to remove the power buff afterward (if it can be done ), this should keep a decent burst without ruining the feat.
here is the problem... that buff doesn;t apply everytime.. it has a ICD probably.
i play with almost 10k power = 5000 damage + multiple bonususes... but how come sometimes i hit 500 damage or 2500 damage..
thats because it has a ICD and can be blocked.
it has probably an ICD on getti buffed from all the buffs damagebonus/cba etc.
cause if its like u say with 10k power i should have killed anyone with max 1 rotation.. so it isnt that true..
so to combat a GWF using intimidatio, just play with a GF in ur team and use KV, and u are safe.
i agree it should be toned out a bit, but i should be make more responsive first, fix the animation on both skills..
afterwards work out on his damage... and fix other classes as well.
I'm aware that the damage alone doesn't make an ability OP, actual combat depends on much more complicated factors than just numbers if there was an encountert that 100k damage and takes 10 seconds to cast it would more useless than overpowered and to be honest i haven't seen any GWF one shooting people left and right and carrying his team to an easy win against and equaly geared team, but still , the way it is calculated make it look broken. I dont think it has and ICD when i tried DS and Cagi successivly on a dummi both did a buffed damage
No. It has no ICD. I also dont know how can "only" hit for 500dmg with 10k power. Pls show data of this or stop claiming those numbers.
It is affected my resistances/block/immunities, but it is an aoe-power hitting for 10-30k dmg on geared players and can proc back to back.
In ankther thread in the barracks a gwf proudly anounced, that he has now three IBSs, two of them beeing aoes.
Can we also stop complaining about CWs/HRs etc everytime? Its kindergarden:"He has OP powers. Me wanna have OP powers too waahahahaa"
Thats not a good aproach to reach at least some kind of balance.
Its not like HRs rain of swords, which NO SERIOUS pvpler uses anyway. Its about two powers that are now used frequently in pvp and rely on complete skilless proc dmg. Dont let to the gwf happen what was done to cws. Making 60-80% of their dmg proccing from skilless passive features. I play my gwf because it needed actually skill and movement to inflict dmg. With the current intimidation build, its super boring.
Lets keep it an option for people who like this kind of playstyle but dont make it fotm.
another HAMSTER skilless build that will be distributed like hershey bars, bring back the skill. If you do do damage it's because you landed a hit, if you dodge you take nothing, what the hell is so hard about that, stupidst powers in the game, storm spell, piercing blades, and shout and come get and get it with the cheese feat
i'm not even sure why somone would rally such a skilless power, it all depends on the $$$, obviously cyptics is catering to the skilless, they must be the ones spending all the money
If people are that bothered about it, the best thing to do is to write up the spec and rotation in insultingly simple detail and post it as a guide in The Barracks. That will force the issue, and get it nerfed.
Leaving it as a S00p3R s3Kri7 bu1lD for the terminally self-important to abuse will only prolong its lifespan.
I have 12 toons, doesn't change the fact that powers that do damage that don't even require a hit are for chumps, plain and simple, requires no skill only money, my main is a cw, 19.4k pvp spec, I haven't played since they buffed storm spell like HAMSTER, I switch to my gf, then got lawn mowered by hr's with piercing blades in in seconds, shield up 4.5k def dead in 2 seonds, so I play my tr now, I just run around and don't fight, then what you know, I run by a gwf, he does come and get it and one shotted me, obviously the devs realized the people that pay money have no skill and were complaining because they were to ****ty to even land a hit on someone after spending hundreds of dollars on third party sites to get what they want. So the dev's come out with glyphs and procs and feats that do damage, no skill required, just $$$. If this is the way you want this game to go then you guy's will to spend stupid $$$ on this game until theere are so many passives and feats that do domaage, everyone with just jumpded down do one move an all are dead, what fun
If people are that bothered about it, the best thing to do is to write up the spec and rotation in insultingly simple detail and post it as a guide in The Barracks. That will force the issue, and get it nerfed.
Leaving it as a S00p3R s3Kri7 bu1lD for the terminally self-important to abuse will only prolong its lifespan.
Umm there's nothing really secret about it though. Spec Senti with Intimidation, build up your char with as much Power as possible, while not neglecting survivability. Use Daring Shout and Come and Get It.
That, is rather my point. It's not rocket surgery, but some very irritating people are acting as though it is, and their egos seem rather invested in the fact
So many people can only play if they can find a guide to follow. If someone can be bothered to make an actual guide to this, it will be very hard to ignore.
the destroyer build is still viable ! lol
not defending the gwf, but come one... you should slack it off, first they need to fix glyphs... Hunter ranger and other classes, then they need to approch GWF ... stop defending your classes .
i'm posting the entire build.
stats are with stone so count 700power 1k recovery and 200 regen less.
just in case someone tries to defend that break, i tell u that u will have a hard time finding a TR tankier than this.
i'm posting the entire build.
stats are with stone so count 700power 1k recovery and 200 regen less.
just in case someone tries to defend that break, i tell u that u will have a hard time finding a TR tankier than this.
use 2 dailies against that senti GWF , stay in ur ITC and keep ur dodges for Cagi, it's very simple, the build doesnt have stun !!!
CAGI cd is 14 sec
Daring shout Cd is 16 seconds
find your tempo and you can kill them.
but if they got u, you are dead... and so does HR / CW do that too... so it's not so epic gwf after all
and dont expect is that so easy to use Cagi or Daring shout, you need to snipe them or else you lose you encounters and die.
Before they fix the GWF I hope they fix the CW bug with Red Glyph, the never ending immortal HR health leech, the perma TR-stealth camping on a flag- not just one fix. I am almost happy with IV > Destro the way it is, needs one prone, perhaps in FLS (high CD) and a slightly stronger unstoppable or base defense (ArP killing the dr% is overflowing).
Sentinel do need some loving, when it comes to given damage (the bug will be fixed, but on that note our developers in neverwinter totally lack common sense and testing ability, which proves that they understand little about game mechanics and on top of all this, they continue to ignore feedback). After the fix, GWF Sentinel need to be given some realistic damage, I don't expect it to damage as much as Destro but it does need some form of damage to kill. I think the entire tree from third column needs to be re-worked on - they have done a sloppy job.
and bring back the old weapon master and bravery aswell.
There is a video in this topic with a GWF dealing 45K Damage in less than one second, in Domiantion, 1vs1, against a TR with 22% Tenacity. Full stats are in the picture.
You really gonna try to defend this?
there is a video with a CW 1 shot other classes, you really gonan defend that?
and probably he used both encounters, not only 1...
i have 10k power and i didn't once dealt that crit... on node 2 at start of the game where all fight the most damage i dealt , not to all but some of them was around 8k to 12k damage.
there is a video with a CW 1 shot other classes, you really gonan defend that?
and probably he used both encounters, not only 1...
i have 10k power and i didn't once dealt that crit... on node 2 at start of the game where all fight the most damage i dealt , not to all but some of them was around 8k to 12k damage.
Where is the video with CWs one-shotting, or even two-shotting 22%+ Tenacity people with 38K HP such as the TR that posted the video? The CW can only do good damage nowadays to properly geared people by spamming RoF with Red Glyphs. Remove glyphs, and CW has normal damage.
Intimidation at this time hits harder than:
- Assailant (no competition)
- Storm Spell (no competition)
- Icy Rays
- Ice Knife
- Chill Strike (no competition)
I have an almost BiS CW (only 4 r10s, rest 9s, legendaries) and the only thing I can one-rotation is pugs, or maybe, just maybe - another CW. Fighting a good HR is almost impossible and fighting a good GWF is again almost impossible, not even talking about GF. If I would slot Reds I would do much better, but that is the glyphs being broken, not the class.
Again, post video with CW one shotting proper build geared PvPers.
there is a video with a CW 1 shot other classes, you really gonan defend that?
and probably he used both encounters, not only 1...
i have 10k power and i didn't once dealt that crit... on node 2 at start of the game where all fight the most damage i dealt , not to all but some of them was around 8k to 12k damage.
You have 10k power, well. Post your gear and spec and what rota you use. You actually have contributed nothing to this thread datawise.
Also, pvp is not about 1vs1 matchups. Do YOU play premades on a pvp level? This dmg is inflicted as an AOE! That deals that kind of dmg against GEARED PVP players. Read the posts before u assume something.
What I want is class balance, also inherent one, as I explained.
why can't we just have hit and miss, no procs, my tr is only 12.6k with 21% tenactiy, t1 pvp set, grim weapons, dominator clock, 1.8def, 400 crit, to get one shotted 5 times in a pvp match while I was invisible from come and get it is just stupid
Because they don't care about TR's If they would follow d n d rules and not worry about what people are *****ing about the game would be better. I would love to see Tr also be able to set traps but some how that got missed in the whole process!
I am old and stupid,. My eyes are bad and my reflexes are slow. I have shaky hands and I am easily distracted and I need this to remain as it is in order to be more than competitive.
All joking aside as I am a destroyer spec. I have only ventured into PvP once since module 4 and I feel it has been one series of development mistakes after another. It has become a game of no skill and specific gear/builds and I find such things to be no fun at all and even more boring than the all too easy PvE. The game needs to do away with this approach of passive unskilled damage and put the requirements for effectiveness back into the hands of the players themselves.
They're the fruits of the same flawed design approach, where people can land tons of damage without even trying -- part of a whole spectrum of WRONG with this module, also including HR Piercing Blade and Glyphs, as well as the GF nonsense that was just fixed. So in that regard, they're not different.
Balancewise, this has a bigger impact, though, because killing a CW isn't that hard. Killing a good Sentinel GWF on the other hand? That's harder. CWs need to be able to inflict damage and use cc to stay competitive; Sentinels already have a great deal of tankiness and mobility anyway; they don't need to do massive, skilless damage on top of that. CWs are pretty much a mid-tier PvP class, while Intimidation being like this moves GWFs to the apex of the PvP hierarchy again (maybe along with HRs).
It ALL should go away anyway.
- Intimidation procs should inflict half damage to players and have a better visual cue to enable people to dodge it more easily. Maybe make it unable to crit too.
- CW Storm Spell damage should be reduced, while single-target encounter damage should be increased (as well as some at-wills), to make CW overall damage more reliant on landing stuff. Eye of the Storm should be changed to less of a reliable damage booster too.
- HR Piercing Blade damage is being fixed by making it subject to mitigation. Some additional changes to HRs may be required, though.
- GF damage could use a looking-at too.
- Glyphs are going to respect mitigation, but they also need to fix them applying constantly if you slot two identical ones. And they should probably nerf the damage a little more on top, just to be sure.
On a wider game scale, they should really look into how dot-type effects and powers with multiple ticks and hits interact with other effects and bonuses. A lot of the most broken stuff in the game has resulted from that.
I agree that CW should do majority of damage from encounters again, but I disagree about the part with EoS. EoS has always been the end of line trait for Spellstorm CWs, which starts to close about 50% of CWs as MoF starts to be quite viable in harder enemy dungeons where the lingering effects give you an edge not being rooted to cast spells all the time and also it is fun to play. They still suck in pvp, but as does most other class secondary paragons. Thys EoS can't be a problem as it hasn't been that before. Make it any more unreliable and the ice power buff from the start is a better option for DPS.
You really can't build really tanky CW, so the burst damage is their only defense against the enemies. Where GWF can try to tank and run away, CW isn't running anywhere and once those three blinks of life are over, they are gone. I find that CW damage output is about in line at the moment, as they aren't really hard to kill with GWF and do good damage, but nothing impressive. Much more imbalanced are HRs like so many have pointed out, that are among best ranged DPS classes at the moment and real close combat killers as well, which can be seen in their strong presence in top 5 positions of pvp. Also those unnaturally tanky, fast, good lingering damage, excellent single target DPS SWs are real pain. I only wait when the first page will be dominated by them when they get into the end of their boon lines with larger numbers.
Give us 4 or more power/item bar profiles so we can change powers and items with one click that are suited for the situation.
0
nezraalMember, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited October 2014
- As a GWF I regret to inform you that we will be owning all non-GWFs with 2 attacks
NOW:
- Can any CW say the same about Red Glyph and Storm Spell?
- Can any HR say the same about their immortality with HP leech and dodge?
- Can any TR say the same about their perma stealth?
- Can GF say the same about their never-ending stamina?
I am not talking about PvE pugs. I am talking about players with 19k+ GS. I am all in favor of having a balanced PvP. But please, consider all options for the fix, not just the one highlighted in red, please consider the teal text as well, not just NARF one and let the others flow. DEAR CRUSH / CRYPTIC TEAM, please wake up - and don't close this thread till ALL FIXES have been made for a realistic PvP balance.
This balance is MOAR important than your team releasing RISE OF 'TOY-A-MAT' - instead do 'TO-YEA-MATH' and apply common sense.
THANK YOU!
If my above post put you in a nerd rage, know that we can have a go at each other's classes all day and come up with another problem the next, next mod. Here is the REAL problem:
Imbalance exists in every game. But it happens in moderation, in Neverwinter it happens in EPIC scale where someone who has never played neverwinter can say "this game is stupid" just by looking at the video posts. That's why this game's rating went into non-existence and player base has fallen to roughly 70k or lower. Despite all this , the few idiots who were resilient and "hoped" for change are us. Crush, you need to take a note of this and be serious about "our" problems.
Guys we should stop fighting ourselves, and send a clear message to the Cryptic development team that their approach is comical. They need to wake up, listen to the proper feedback and thoroughly test breaking points before rushing to a release. Cryptic's attitude on understanding it's players need to change. Compared to Riot Games balancing, they look like "ugh", incapable of addressing the root of the problem after 4 released modules! Back to playing another fun packed action in LoL (League of Legends).
ghoulz66Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,748Arc User
edited October 2014
Sure offensive buffs for Sent are nice, but NOT AoE burst damage that hit as hard as IBS. What were they thinking!? Destroyer has to work for their damage boost and accept risk, while Sent can tank it out and do HAMSTER like that right out of the box?
You can't have a squishy DPS path, but then make a tanky AoE DPS path for Christ's sake.
Just make the damage decrease with every target hit beyond the first and be done with it. Like quite a deal of GWF AoE powers, for example Not So Fast, Wicked Strike, Weapon Master's Strike.
And wasn't that exactly the case with Sentinels since mod 4 till now? They were completely and utterly useless. And make no mistake, destroyers still do twice the damage and are still much more preferable in parties.
As for an example, I played a 5k power destroyer till this update and I was scoring Great Success in every heroic encounter that lasted more than 1 minute. Now I play a 6k power sentinel and haven't scored a single Great Success on any HE. Doesn't matter how long they last, doesn't matter that I sit on red spots and use restoring strike to heal myself, doesn't matter that I get all the attention (threat), doesn't matter that I use CAGI and DS.
So, for the love of god, shut up about this nonsense that sentinel outdps destroyer. It's not true and you ****ing know it.
Comments
i play with almost 10k power = 5000 damage + multiple bonususes... but how come sometimes i hit 500 damage or 2500 damage..
thats because it has a ICD and can be blocked.
it has probably an ICD on getti buffed from all the buffs damagebonus/cba etc.
cause if its like u say with 10k power i should have killed anyone with max 1 rotation.. so it isnt that true..
so to combat a GWF using intimidatio, just play with a GF in ur team and use KV, and u are safe.
i agree it should be toned out a bit, but i should be make more responsive first, fix the animation on both skills..
afterwards work out on his damage... and fix other classes as well.
No. It has no ICD. I also dont know how can "only" hit for 500dmg with 10k power. Pls show data of this or stop claiming those numbers.
It is affected my resistances/block/immunities, but it is an aoe-power hitting for 10-30k dmg on geared players and can proc back to back.
In ankther thread in the barracks a gwf proudly anounced, that he has now three IBSs, two of them beeing aoes.
Can we also stop complaining about CWs/HRs etc everytime? Its kindergarden:"He has OP powers. Me wanna have OP powers too waahahahaa"
Thats not a good aproach to reach at least some kind of balance.
Its not like HRs rain of swords, which NO SERIOUS pvpler uses anyway. Its about two powers that are now used frequently in pvp and rely on complete skilless proc dmg. Dont let to the gwf happen what was done to cws. Making 60-80% of their dmg proccing from skilless passive features. I play my gwf because it needed actually skill and movement to inflict dmg. With the current intimidation build, its super boring.
Lets keep it an option for people who like this kind of playstyle but dont make it fotm.
Leaving it as a S00p3R s3Kri7 bu1lD for the terminally self-important to abuse will only prolong its lifespan.
Umm there's nothing really secret about it though. Spec Senti with Intimidation, build up your char with as much Power as possible, while not neglecting survivability. Use Daring Shout and Come and Get It.
So many people can only play if they can find a guide to follow. If someone can be bothered to make an actual guide to this, it will be very hard to ignore.
not defending the gwf, but come one... you should slack it off, first they need to fix glyphs... Hunter ranger and other classes, then they need to approch GWF ... stop defending your classes .
i'm posting the entire build.
stats are with stone so count 700power 1k recovery and 200 regen less.
just in case someone tries to defend that break, i tell u that u will have a hard time finding a TR tankier than this.
http://tinypic.com/r/douef9/8
use 2 dailies against that senti GWF , stay in ur ITC and keep ur dodges for Cagi, it's very simple, the build doesnt have stun !!!
CAGI cd is 14 sec
Daring shout Cd is 16 seconds
find your tempo and you can kill them.
but if they got u, you are dead... and so does HR / CW do that too... so it's not so epic gwf after all
and dont expect is that so easy to use Cagi or Daring shout, you need to snipe them or else you lose you encounters and die.
and bring back the old weapon master and bravery aswell.
there is a video with a CW 1 shot other classes, you really gonan defend that?
and probably he used both encounters, not only 1...
i have 10k power and i didn't once dealt that crit... on node 2 at start of the game where all fight the most damage i dealt , not to all but some of them was around 8k to 12k damage.
Where is the video with CWs one-shotting, or even two-shotting 22%+ Tenacity people with 38K HP such as the TR that posted the video? The CW can only do good damage nowadays to properly geared people by spamming RoF with Red Glyphs. Remove glyphs, and CW has normal damage.
Intimidation at this time hits harder than:
- Assailant (no competition)
- Storm Spell (no competition)
- Icy Rays
- Ice Knife
- Chill Strike (no competition)
I have an almost BiS CW (only 4 r10s, rest 9s, legendaries) and the only thing I can one-rotation is pugs, or maybe, just maybe - another CW. Fighting a good HR is almost impossible and fighting a good GWF is again almost impossible, not even talking about GF. If I would slot Reds I would do much better, but that is the glyphs being broken, not the class.
Again, post video with CW one shotting proper build geared PvPers.
You have 10k power, well. Post your gear and spec and what rota you use. You actually have contributed nothing to this thread datawise.
Also, pvp is not about 1vs1 matchups. Do YOU play premades on a pvp level? This dmg is inflicted as an AOE! That deals that kind of dmg against GEARED PVP players. Read the posts before u assume something.
What I want is class balance, also inherent one, as I explained.
All joking aside as I am a destroyer spec. I have only ventured into PvP once since module 4 and I feel it has been one series of development mistakes after another. It has become a game of no skill and specific gear/builds and I find such things to be no fun at all and even more boring than the all too easy PvE. The game needs to do away with this approach of passive unskilled damage and put the requirements for effectiveness back into the hands of the players themselves.
I agree that CW should do majority of damage from encounters again, but I disagree about the part with EoS. EoS has always been the end of line trait for Spellstorm CWs, which starts to close about 50% of CWs as MoF starts to be quite viable in harder enemy dungeons where the lingering effects give you an edge not being rooted to cast spells all the time and also it is fun to play. They still suck in pvp, but as does most other class secondary paragons. Thys EoS can't be a problem as it hasn't been that before. Make it any more unreliable and the ice power buff from the start is a better option for DPS.
You really can't build really tanky CW, so the burst damage is their only defense against the enemies. Where GWF can try to tank and run away, CW isn't running anywhere and once those three blinks of life are over, they are gone. I find that CW damage output is about in line at the moment, as they aren't really hard to kill with GWF and do good damage, but nothing impressive. Much more imbalanced are HRs like so many have pointed out, that are among best ranged DPS classes at the moment and real close combat killers as well, which can be seen in their strong presence in top 5 positions of pvp. Also those unnaturally tanky, fast, good lingering damage, excellent single target DPS SWs are real pain. I only wait when the first page will be dominated by them when they get into the end of their boon lines with larger numbers.
NOW:
- Can any CW say the same about Red Glyph and Storm Spell?
- Can any HR say the same about their immortality with HP leech and dodge?
- Can any TR say the same about their perma stealth?
- Can GF say the same about their never-ending stamina?
I am not talking about PvE pugs. I am talking about players with 19k+ GS. I am all in favor of having a balanced PvP. But please, consider all options for the fix, not just the one highlighted in red, please consider the teal text as well, not just NARF one and let the others flow. DEAR CRUSH / CRYPTIC TEAM, please wake up - and don't close this thread till ALL FIXES have been made for a realistic PvP balance.
This balance is MOAR important than your team releasing RISE OF 'TOY-A-MAT' - instead do 'TO-YEA-MATH' and apply common sense.
THANK YOU!
If my above post put you in a nerd rage, know that we can have a go at each other's classes all day and come up with another problem the next, next mod. Here is the REAL problem:
Imbalance exists in every game. But it happens in moderation, in Neverwinter it happens in EPIC scale where someone who has never played neverwinter can say "this game is stupid" just by looking at the video posts. That's why this game's rating went into non-existence and player base has fallen to roughly 70k or lower. Despite all this , the few idiots who were resilient and "hoped" for change are us. Crush, you need to take a note of this and be serious about "our" problems.
Guys we should stop fighting ourselves, and send a clear message to the Cryptic development team that their approach is comical. They need to wake up, listen to the proper feedback and thoroughly test breaking points before rushing to a release. Cryptic's attitude on understanding it's players need to change. Compared to Riot Games balancing, they look like "ugh", incapable of addressing the root of the problem after 4 released modules! Back to playing another fun packed action in LoL (League of Legends).
+ CAGI Calcultator
+ Liquid Tear Website
You can't have a squishy DPS path, but then make a tanky AoE DPS path for Christ's sake.
What next, LFG, no destroyer plz?
And wasn't that exactly the case with Sentinels since mod 4 till now? They were completely and utterly useless. And make no mistake, destroyers still do twice the damage and are still much more preferable in parties.
As for an example, I played a 5k power destroyer till this update and I was scoring Great Success in every heroic encounter that lasted more than 1 minute. Now I play a 6k power sentinel and haven't scored a single Great Success on any HE. Doesn't matter how long they last, doesn't matter that I sit on red spots and use restoring strike to heal myself, doesn't matter that I get all the attention (threat), doesn't matter that I use CAGI and DS.
So, for the love of god, shut up about this nonsense that sentinel outdps destroyer. It's not true and you ****ing know it.