nah, you can still hold down left mouse button and kill everyone.
Everyone you play with maybe, but not anything at top level. Without icy rays there are no counters for any classes basically, no CC, nothing. CW = punching bags again
This sounds good. Piercing Blade would still be a useful increase in melee HR damage to keep it in line with ranged damage without being quite as deadly as it is now.
A "fix" that would make Icy Rays dodgable would probably not be a good fix for gameplay. ... And HRs can actually dodge Icy Rays through using Marauder's Escape at the right time, but this requires a lot of skill and possibly some luck to pull off.
I think Piercing working on 40% of damage actually dealt and not base power damage is good.
But making Icy rains dodgeable is correct imho. Cause now Ice ray is only against HR power that really on dodge to avoid attacks. Disruptive is good still as a daily not a core mechanic.
I d pref to have more reliable way to handle any attack via dodge, not just ice, or have way to escape it. dodge is HRs class core mechanic. Same as shield or GWF immunity window. So they should work in same way without exceptions.
So it's basically just intended to be +40% damage to melee?
Are there any particular intricacies to making it two separate attacks? It's always exactly 40% extra damage so Crits carry over, and soon mitigation carries over as well. It doesn't proc anything else after it like Careful or Hurricane, it's just a final damage tag on.
There are some aesthetics to having more floaty numbers but otherwise it's just vague/confusing and instigates unnecessary arguments over "fixes" and "nerfs".
Probably because it is easier to add a 40% damage after every attack than reworking the damage dealt by every power, if i'm not mistaking it does 40% of a critical strike but just show it in yellow number so basicaly it does critic.
this is indeed a good news to have PB working correctly as plain bonus damage , it will create a balance between HR and tanky classes like GF and GWF but it wont change much the output against squichies, i hope this will tone down the QQ and let devs do their job peacefuly
But making Icy rains dodgeable is correct imho. Cause now Ice ray is only against HR power that really on dodge to avoid attacks. Disruptive is good still as a daily not a core mechanic.
I play both HR and CW.
As things stand now, CW is basically useless without Icy Rays. I have one of the best HRs in the game in my guild and the only reason I can sometimes beat her on my CW is Icy rays, which she can still semi-reliably "dodge" with marauders.
Take out Icy Rays, and we have EXACTLY the same situation as in CW vs GF case, where the CW is a not even a small challenge.
If anything, Icy Rays should be reworked to guarantee that root (which still allows you to Disrupt).
You say Disruptive a daily?
Icy Rays 13 seconds cooldown.
Disruptive is easier to get then IR, and AP generation for the HR is NOT an issue (I never run out of AP, RG set, Combat, I get even insta AP refill in PvE and a bit slower in PvP).
Omg a HR just killed me with PB. I don't care if their base damage is lower then ours or that PB was made to compromise for that IT'S JUST TO OP..... NOTHING IN THIS GAME SHOULD BE UNDODGABLE BECAUSE IT REQUIRES LITTLE SKILL.... Except icy rays because it's the only thing that makes holding down my right mouse button easier. Not that I don't have an encounter that can be empowered with a certain class feature that has a 1 second frame that actually allows it to be dodged or anything....
As things stand now, CW is basically useless without Icy Rays. I have one of the best HRs in the game in my guild and the only reason I can sometimes beat her on my CW is Icy rays, which she can still semi-reliably "dodge" with marauders.
Take out Icy Rays, and we have EXACTLY the same situation as in CW vs GF case, where the CW is a not even a small challenge.
If anything, Icy Rays should be reworked to guarantee that root (which still allows you to Disrupt).
You say Disruptive a daily?
Icy Rays 13 seconds cooldown.
Disruptive is easier to get then IR, and AP generation for the HR is NOT an issue (I never run out of AP, RG set, Combat, I get even insta AP refill in PvE and a bit slower in PvP).
Disruptive is equally as easy only it has a 23 second cooldown. (Or around that) and it stuns for way less then icy rays roots, not ignoring the fact that icy rays does a **** ton of damage on tab. I'm gonna tell you something, every time I go against a good CW they use the one power that is useless against any other class.. (Just like how they slot steal time for rogues) which is repel. I'm always either protecting base or with the cleric at mid so when a CW comes I'm never on guard. They get me with entangling and then use icy rays, I disruptive and as soon as the icy rays come off I maurarders, they repel and then ice knife (DC Artifact) dead.
I completely agree with magi in regards to icy rays.
Lets look at the facts, Icy rays, yes it goes through dodges and the root effect cannot be escaped (except by GF block, SW sprint and GWF sprint) but its damage can still be completely avoided, with fox's cunning + exaltation + GF block, and classes can break out of the root effect with marauders, fox shift, boars charge, threatening rush, unstoppable, ITC.
In fact, every single class can avoid atleast part of the effect of Icy rays, be it damage, or the root in some way,
-Now, lets look at PvP cw's encounters without icy rays and their total CC time
chillstrike - more like a interrupt, with a 1.2s cast time and a .5s stun does about 4-6k dmg
Entangling force - Can still be deflected so .6s-1.3s stun time that can be broken out of with unstoppable and ITC (Also its only useful for the CC seeing as the damage output is at most 1-2k dmg)
Since Shard of Endless avalanche is no longer in a PvP cw's rotation because of the insane damage nerfs it has been replaced with either Conduit of Ice (which only adds chillstacks if on tab) or ray of enfeeblement (which does not even CC a target)
In fact, the primary source of CC from a control wizard is not from its encounter's anymore, its from the Ray of frost at-will and most of the damage is not from a CW's encounters, is from Storm Spell proc's
Atleast with Icy Rays, you can force a target to pop their CC immunitys otherwise a class like a TR or Gwf will only go into ITC or Unstoppable when they feel in danger, Instead of being outplayed.
A final note,
-Cws can no longer Combo CC's into eachother since our primary source of CC is from chill and chillstacks.
-In a 1v1 situation, HRs can use marauders and Forest Ghost to be untargetable and then boars charge you into fox shift (with piercing blade 1 rotation of this is 25-50% of your health)
-GWFs can still 1 rotation max geared pvp players and Combo their stuns for greater then 8s long
-GF's Literally cannot be touched anymore with the KV reflect build, as any class will kill themselves on it
So to wrap it up, If Icy rays were to become dodge-able you would be removing some of the Last amount of CC the "CONTROL-wizard" class has
-In fact the only thing that should be done in regards to any CC immunity at the moment , is to give Exaltation the abiltiy to Cancel stuns/roots seeing as how the DC class is the only one that is currently devastated by CC
I completely agree with magi in regards to icy rays.
Lets look at the facts, Icy rays, yes it goes through dodges and the root effect cannot be escaped (except by GF block, SW sprint and GWF sprint) but its damage can still be completely avoided, with fox's cunning + exaltation + GF block, and classes can break out of the root effect with marauders, fox shift, boars charge, threatening rush, unstoppable, ITC.
You may want to edit it, maurarders can not break out of icy rays, it only has the smallest possible chance (I didn't even do it) to avoid it. When in Icy rays Maurarder becomes unusable. The main reason why icy rays is a problem is because not only does it do a lot of damage, but it also gaurantees a 100% chance to follow up with a rotation. The only people who have a chance at avoiding the rotation is the HR who has to hope they didn't use disruptive in the last 23 seconds. It's on the same bases as PB. Not because the damage is undodgable but because what follows is undodgable. Yes you can stop it with a CC break or disruptive but you can stop PB with a CC it'self. If you're gonna take one out of the game you can't leave the other in because you feel every 13 seconds you should have a 100% chance to land your rotation
Disruptive is equally as easy only it has a 23 second cooldown. (Or around that) and it stuns for way less then icy rays roots, not ignoring the fact that icy rays does a **** ton of damage on tab. I'm gonna tell you something, every time I go against a good CW they use the one power that is useless against any other class.. (Just like how they slot steal time for rogues) which is repel. I'm always either protecting base or with the cleric at mid so when a CW comes I'm never on guard. They get me with entangling and then use icy rays, I disruptive and as soon as the icy rays come off I maurarders, they repel and then ice knife (DC Artifact) dead.
ROFL disruptive's cooldown is effected by the royal guard's set, which any decent HR uses so no way in hell a decent HR should have a 23s CD on it. Also, repel is still Deflected 30% of the time so you don't even get pushed back, 1v1 vs a CW if its your node, then you should win that fight 90% of the time, if you are with a cleric, then there is no way in hell you should ever die vs a CW. and you are only complaining about Icy rays because you apparently have no idea how to get out of it, you never waste disruptive immediatly after, you should always try to fox/marauders out, watch for the ice knife then disruptive into boars charge.
You may want to edit it, maurarders can not break out of icy rays, it only has the smallest possible chance (I didn't even do it) to avoid it. When in Icy rays Maurarder becomes unusable. The main reason why icy rays is a problem is because not only does it do a lot of damage, but it also gaurantees a 100% chance to follow up with a rotation. The only people who have a chance at avoiding the rotation is the HR who has to hope they didn't use disruptive in the last 23 seconds. It's on the same bases as PB. Not because the damage is undodgable but because what follows is undodgable. Yes you can stop it with a CC break or disruptive but you can stop PB with a CC it'self. If you're gonna take one out of the game you can't leave the other in because you feel every 13 seconds you should have a 100% chance to land your rotation
You are just grasping at straws to save something that should never have been in the game and have ZERO counters, nearly every class can avoid Icy rays, It even shows a mark before being casted to warn the target (if you could possibly forget about that) and yes, marauders can break you out of Icy rays, Please learn your class before coming onto the forums and crying
I completely agree with magi in regards to icy rays.
Lets look at the facts, Icy rays, yes it goes through dodges and the root effect cannot be escaped (except by GF block, SW sprint and GWF sprint) but its damage can still be completely avoided, with fox's cunning + exaltation + GF block, and classes can break out of the root effect with marauders, fox shift, boars charge, threatening rush, unstoppable, ITC.
In fact, every single class can atleast part of the effect of Icy rays, be it damage, or the root in some way,
-Now, lets look at PvP cw's encounters without icy rays and their total CC time
chillstrike - more like a interrupt, with a 1.2s cast time and a .5s stun does about 4-6k dmg
Entangling force - Can still be deflected so .6s-1.3s stun time that can be broken out of with unstoppable and ITC (Also its only useful for the CC seeing as the damage output is at most 1-2k dmg)
Since Shard of Endless avalanche is no longer in a PvP cw's rotation because of the insane damage nerfs it has been replaced with either Conduit of Ice (which only adds chillstacks if on tab) or ray of enfeeblement (which does not even CC a target)
In fact, the primary source of CC from a control wizard is not from its encounter's anymore, its from the Ray of frost at-will and most of the damage is not from a CW's encounters, is from Storm Spell proc's
Atleast with Icy Rays, you can force a target to pop their CC immunitys otherwise a class like a TR or Gwf will only go into ITC or Unstoppable when they feel in danger, Instead of being outplayed.
A final note,
-Cws can no longer Combo CC's into eachother since our primary source of CC is from chill and chillstacks.
-In a 1v1 situation, HRs can use marauders and Forest Ghost to be untargetable and then boars charge you into fox shift (with piercing blade 1 rotation of this is 25-50% of your health)
-GWFs can still 1 rotation max geared pvp players and Combo their stuns for greater then 8s long
-GF's Literally cannot be touched anymore with the KV reflect build, as any class will kill themselves on it
So to wrap it up, If Icy rays were to become dodge-able you would be removing some of the Last amount of CC the "CONTROL-wizard" class has
-In fact the only thing that should be done in regards to any CC immunity at the moment , is to give Exaltation the ability to Cancel stuns/roots seeing as how the DC class is the only one that is currently devastated by CC
Making it dodgable is not removing the CC capabilities.. It's just upping the amount of skill required, don't forget that it will still have a load of damage it can cast. Also, they're trying to make you chose between control and damage, so if you'd rather more control then remove one of your damaging class features (EOTS and SS) and replace it with the control one (Orb of Imposition)
Disruptive is equally as easy only it has a 23 second cooldown. (Or around that) and it stuns for way less then icy rays roots
You don't know the HR very well.
The cooldown is substantially lower than IR.
Also Disruptive is an interrupt and a daze, and the enemy can just move, not cast during its action.
During Icy Rays, which is a Root, you are stuck, but can free cast.
You need to keep in mind I love my HR and don't want it nerfed. I don't want it to be cheezy either, however. In fact, my guildie&friend who has a better HR than me argue quite often on the extent of the fixes/nerfs for the class. She is playing a page 1 BiS HR, and she would see the HR nerfed in ways I would never want.
I completely agree with magi in regards to icy rays.
Lets look at the facts, Icy rays, yes it goes through dodges and the root effect cannot be escaped (except by GF block, SW sprint and GWF sprint) but its damage can still be completely avoided, ...
well again. you are talking about 100% of avoiding damage against - perfect timing to get 0.1 sec right for HR on encounters that are not really designed to avoid damage in fact.) You are making it CW vs HR while Im talking about making it equal for HR and GWf or GF as melee fighter to avoid rooting.
And for HR rooting is bigger problem since movement is our main defense. So having MARA escape to add cc breaker OR making all(!) encounters dodgable without exceptions is correct. Not just Ice Ray but also fox shift and mara. All encounters to respect dodge.
And if you think out of box making CW useless (witch is by your statement is actually - making CW not able to kill HRs since ice rays can be avoided by GF GWF TR) to making all classes having equal possibilities bases on their mechanics.
Cause otherwise - CW vs CW ? should one CW be able to teleport out of ice rays or he should be rooted as HR? either or but not both.
ROFL disruptive's cooldown is effected by the royal guard's set, which any decent HR uses so no way in hell a decent HR should have a 23s CD on it. Also, repel is still Deflected 30% of the time so you don't even get pushed back, 1v1 vs a CW if its your node, then you should win that fight 90% of the time, if you are with a cleric, then there is no way in hell you should ever die vs a CW. and you are only complaining about Icy rays because you apparently have no idea how to get out of it, you never waste disruptive immediately after, you should always try to fox/marauders out, watch for the ice knife then disruptive into boars charge.
I'm not talking about when I'm with my cleric I'm talking about when I'm at home node. I don't stay there the whole match, I stay there until the point is captured. If I'm in the middle of capturing a node and a CW comes I HAVE to.. I repeat HAVE to use disruptive shot before they use entangling.. Know why? Because I'm not stepping off the node and letting points leak so I can go kill some CW ESPECIALLY IF IT'S IN A PREMADE MATCH. You think the CW is gonna use entangling and then wait until it's finished to use icy rays? If so then you have a lot to learn about your class. I could dodge out of entangling but most likely I'm going to end up being dragged right back in to it because of my buggy dodges. So as soon as I use disrupted show the CW is not going to come on the node because he knows that I'm not going to let points leak and he also knows that I would murder him in combat and regain my HP with lifesteal. So as soon as disruptive is over (It's a short CC) Royal Guard or not I'm GOING to get icy rays and I'm GOING to get chill striked and I'm GOING to get icy knifed and I'm GOING to end up in the spawn. Also note that tenacity is apart of the CC resistance that we get, and by wearing the RG I'm now left with 650 Tenacity (That's IF I have the rings) meaning the CW just got longer control on top of that burst damage
Also Disruptive is an interrupt and a daze, and the enemy can just move, not cast during its action.
During Icy Rays, which is a Root, you are stuck, but can free cast.
You need to keep in mind I love my HR and don't want it nerfed. I don't want it to be cheezy either, however. In fact, my guildie&friend who has a better HR than me argue quite often on the extent of the fixes/nerfs for the class. She is playing a page 1 BiS HR, and she would see the HR nerfed in ways I would never want.
Sorry I was wrong about the disruptive cooldown (I can't get online right now) and don't forget that on another thread a said myself that PB with glyphs is way out of proportion (of course that was at the time I was testing my CW and how fast he could kill things). What I'm saying is that if we're going to go pointing fingers at PB and then try to defend IR then it's hypocritical... Because both in fact avoid dodges , yes you can stop ir with immunity, just like you can stop PB by using a CC to control the HR, and taking away PB just ruined the HR in PvP completely, but making it respect stuff is just toning down. It's the same for the CW, they're not going to be punching bags again, that's a lie..... With PB respecting defense or dodges or whatever GMC is gonna do + the glyph fixes to it just basically cut the rate of the life the HR is stealing in half which puts them in a reasonable spot. They're going to fix the glyphs as well as the GF putting them in a reasonable spot. They're making the Whirlwind of Blades build useless by making it respect defense + their buffs putting them in a reasonable spot, and then you're going to have a CW that can icy rays anyone and hold down the right click button while betting his friends that storm spell will proc before assailant.
I'm not talking about when I'm with my cleric I'm talking about when I'm at home node. I don't stay there the whole match, I stay there until the point is captured. If I'm in the middle of capturing a node and a CW comes I HAVE to.. I repeat HAVE to use disruptive shot before they use entangling.. Know why? Because I'm not stepping off the node and letting points leak so I can go kill some CW ESPECIALLY IF IT'S IN A PREMADE MATCH. You think the CW is gonna use entangling and then wait until it's finished to use icy rays? If so then you have a lot to learn about your class. I could dodge out of entangling but most likely I'm going to end up being dragged right back in to it because of my buggy dodges. So as soon as I use disrupted show the CW is not going to come on the node because he knows that I'm not going to let points leak and he also knows that I would murder him in combat and regain my HP with lifesteal. So as soon as disruptive is over (It's a short CC) Royal Guard or not I'm GOING to get icy rays and I'm GOING to get chill striked and I'm GOING to get icy knifed and I'm GOING to end up in the spawn. Also note that tenacity is apart of the CC resistance that we get, and by wearing the RG I'm now left with 650 Tenacity (That's IF I have the rings) meaning the CW just got longer control on top of that burst damage
Thats the thing, you are saying if the other team is in control of a node and you are 1v1 vs a CW, that is literally the one time a CW should be able to kill you, although if you ignore the node for less than 10s you could clear the CW and get back on the node and cap it freely,
although the same is the opposite for the CW, if its your node, then the Cw is dead, because there is no way in hell to far cast the HR and there is no way to escape due to marauders, And again you apparently don't know your own class, because they improved the dodges of a HR with the launch of MOD4, go read the notes on it
Thats the thing, you are saying if the other team is in control of a node and you are 1v1 vs a CW, that is literally the one time a CW should be able to kill you, although if you ignore the node for less than 10s you could clear the CW and get back on the node and cap it freely,
although the same is the opposite for the CW, if its your node, then the Cw is dead, because there is no way in hell to far cast the HR and there is no way to escape due to marauders, And again you apparently don't know your own class, because they improved the dodges of a HR with the launch of MOD4, go read the notes on it
I know my class from experience pf playing it. How can you tell me that I don't know my class because you read that the devs said something about it. Well guess what, the devs said that the class changes would bring balance but did it? So because you "read" something doesn't mean you've experienced it. Of course maybe if I read the patch notes my dodges will magically get better. Lke I said, I'm not defending PB I know that with glyphs it's out of control, but if they nerf PB and the glyphs then HRs are now a punching bag to CW... If they nerf the GF then CWs is going to be the OPest class in this module. The only way to bring balance is by turning the damage from your auto procs down or making icy rays dodgable so you don't have a 100% chance to land your rotation. Idk maybe if you knew how to play your class you wouldn't need icy rays to be good at something
I know my class from experience pf playing it. How can you tell me that I don't know my class because you read that the devs said something about it. Well guess what, the devs said that the class changes would bring balance but did it? So because you "read" something doesn't mean you've experienced it. Of course maybe if I read the patch notes my dodges will magically get better. Lke I said, I'm not defending PB I know that with glyphs it's out of control, but if they nerf PB and the glyphs then HRs are now a punching bag to CW... If they nerf the GF then CWs is going to be the OPest class in this module. The only way to bring balance is by turning the damage from your auto procs down or making icy rays dodgable so you don't have a 100% chance to land your rotation. Idk maybe if you knew how to play your class you wouldn't need icy rays to be good at something
+1
Make Icy Rays Dodge-able. Fix the Red Glyph Reflect Perma Daily GF's. ty.
The BIGGEST reason your having to deal with threads like this are those dang glyphs!
Just frikin REMOVE THE DAMAGE ON PROCS for those things and LEAVE the stat bonuses.
+ 800 stats for 20 seconds IS MORE THAN ENOUGH. SERIOUSLY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Once thats done, itll fix ALOT ALOT ALOT ALOT of this game. Most of the players dealing too much damage are because of these STUPID OP GLYPHS!
SERIOUSLy!!!!!!
DING DING, this is exactly what caused this QQ fest in the first place. When the glyphs proc in melee it causes piercing blade to be applied as well for every tick. Nerfing piercing blade and icy rays is a BAD MOVE, just FIX THE **** GLYPHS then worry about other stuff being OP in PVP.
I should clarify, I made no mention of changing Icy Rays because at this time I have no intention of doing so. It *can* already be dodged, and because it activates so fast it takes incredible skill to do so. Countering it is tough, but not impossible. At this time Icy Rays will remain unchanged.
I should clarify, I made no mention of changing Icy Rays because at this time I have no intention of doing so. It *can* already be dodged, and because it activates so fast it takes incredible skill to do so. Countering it is tough, but not impossible. At this time Icy Rays will remain unchanged.
While we're on the change HRs subject how about constricting? It was changed to cater to one specific path and let down the rest of the paths.
If you make Icy Rays Dodge-able, give CWs an encounter that makes them semi-invisible similar to the HRs and give CWs more dodges as well.
At this point, BIS CWs lose to BIS HRs and BIS GFs and now we are removing their best skill?
Yeah, be careful what u ask for. So many QQs about HRs unresistable dmg, and that it should be nerfed, but a clearly bugged power should not be fixed? Talk about hipocrites…
Just to be clear: I dont want Icy rays to be dodgeable. I dont want whirlwind of blades fixed either, and I like the principle of PB. And I had nothing against an unresistable assailant force.
But if u pull out ur crybabyness about one power, you cant cover ur eyes for the others which are bugged/OP.
I should clarify, I made no mention of changing Icy Rays because at this time I have no intention of doing so. It *can* already be dodged, and because it activates so fast it takes incredible skill to do so. Countering it is tough, but not impossible. At this time Icy Rays will remain unchanged.
It can not be dodged. No matter when you time it. It doesn't dodge the root. You get rooted regardless. Go check again. In fact, if they cast Icy ray on you in the middle of your dodge, you are rooted when you finish your roll. Go check for yourself.. I can't believe you are a system designer and don't know the mechanics of the game you are supposed to be working on.
You should actually listen to some of the posts in this thread and others and fix the real problem.. Which is the GLYPHS. And then look into the problems with the OP one button mash CW's with the undodgeable Icy Rays, the glyph perma daily reflect GF's and the PB HR's..
You shouldn't even be looking at those other things until you fix the glyphs first though.
I should clarify, I made no mention of changing Icy Rays because at this time I have no intention of doing so. It *can* already be dodged, and because it activates so fast it takes incredible skill to do so. Countering it is tough, but not impossible. At this time Icy Rays will remain unchanged.
Nor should you change Icy rays.
There is no problem with Icy rays in PVE, there is no problem with CWs at high level premade PVP. They still get stomped by a BIS HR. GF's troll reflect builds are still the biggest indicator of which team will win.
CWs have no get out of jail free card and are fairly squishy compared to most classes.
Comments
The BIGGEST reason your having to deal with threads like this are those dang glyphs!
Just frikin REMOVE THE DAMAGE ON PROCS for those things and LEAVE the stat bonuses.
+ 800 stats for 20 seconds IS MORE THAN ENOUGH. SERIOUSLY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Once thats done, itll fix ALOT ALOT ALOT ALOT of this game. Most of the players dealing too much damage are because of these STUPID OP GLYPHS!
SERIOUSLy!!!!!!
I think Piercing working on 40% of damage actually dealt and not base power damage is good.
But making Icy rains dodgeable is correct imho. Cause now Ice ray is only against HR power that really on dodge to avoid attacks. Disruptive is good still as a daily not a core mechanic.
I d pref to have more reliable way to handle any attack via dodge, not just ice, or have way to escape it. dodge is HRs class core mechanic. Same as shield or GWF immunity window. So they should work in same way without exceptions.
Agree 100% on this
Probably because it is easier to add a 40% damage after every attack than reworking the damage dealt by every power, if i'm not mistaking it does 40% of a critical strike but just show it in yellow number so basicaly it does critic.
this is indeed a good news to have PB working correctly as plain bonus damage , it will create a balance between HR and tanky classes like GF and GWF but it wont change much the output against squichies, i hope this will tone down the QQ and let devs do their job peacefuly
I play both HR and CW.
As things stand now, CW is basically useless without Icy Rays. I have one of the best HRs in the game in my guild and the only reason I can sometimes beat her on my CW is Icy rays, which she can still semi-reliably "dodge" with marauders.
Take out Icy Rays, and we have EXACTLY the same situation as in CW vs GF case, where the CW is a not even a small challenge.
If anything, Icy Rays should be reworked to guarantee that root (which still allows you to Disrupt).
You say Disruptive a daily?
Icy Rays 13 seconds cooldown.
Disruptive is easier to get then IR, and AP generation for the HR is NOT an issue (I never run out of AP, RG set, Combat, I get even insta AP refill in PvE and a bit slower in PvP).
Omg a HR just killed me with PB. I don't care if their base damage is lower then ours or that PB was made to compromise for that IT'S JUST TO OP..... NOTHING IN THIS GAME SHOULD BE UNDODGABLE BECAUSE IT REQUIRES LITTLE SKILL.... Except icy rays because it's the only thing that makes holding down my right mouse button easier. Not that I don't have an encounter that can be empowered with a certain class feature that has a 1 second frame that actually allows it to be dodged or anything....
Disruptive is equally as easy only it has a 23 second cooldown. (Or around that) and it stuns for way less then icy rays roots, not ignoring the fact that icy rays does a **** ton of damage on tab. I'm gonna tell you something, every time I go against a good CW they use the one power that is useless against any other class.. (Just like how they slot steal time for rogues) which is repel. I'm always either protecting base or with the cleric at mid so when a CW comes I'm never on guard. They get me with entangling and then use icy rays, I disruptive and as soon as the icy rays come off I maurarders, they repel and then ice knife (DC Artifact) dead.
Lets look at the facts, Icy rays, yes it goes through dodges and the root effect cannot be escaped (except by GF block, SW sprint and GWF sprint) but its damage can still be completely avoided, with fox's cunning + exaltation + GF block, and classes can break out of the root effect with marauders, fox shift, boars charge, threatening rush, unstoppable, ITC.
In fact, every single class can avoid atleast part of the effect of Icy rays, be it damage, or the root in some way,
-Now, lets look at PvP cw's encounters without icy rays and their total CC time
chillstrike - more like a interrupt, with a 1.2s cast time and a .5s stun does about 4-6k dmg
Entangling force - Can still be deflected so .6s-1.3s stun time that can be broken out of with unstoppable and ITC (Also its only useful for the CC seeing as the damage output is at most 1-2k dmg)
Since Shard of Endless avalanche is no longer in a PvP cw's rotation because of the insane damage nerfs it has been replaced with either Conduit of Ice (which only adds chillstacks if on tab) or ray of enfeeblement (which does not even CC a target)
In fact, the primary source of CC from a control wizard is not from its encounter's anymore, its from the Ray of frost at-will and most of the damage is not from a CW's encounters, is from Storm Spell proc's
Atleast with Icy Rays, you can force a target to pop their CC immunitys otherwise a class like a TR or Gwf will only go into ITC or Unstoppable when they feel in danger, Instead of being outplayed.
A final note,
-Cws can no longer Combo CC's into eachother since our primary source of CC is from chill and chillstacks.
-In a 1v1 situation, HRs can use marauders and Forest Ghost to be untargetable and then boars charge you into fox shift (with piercing blade 1 rotation of this is 25-50% of your health)
-GWFs can still 1 rotation max geared pvp players and Combo their stuns for greater then 8s long
-GF's Literally cannot be touched anymore with the KV reflect build, as any class will kill themselves on it
So to wrap it up, If Icy rays were to become dodge-able you would be removing some of the Last amount of CC the "CONTROL-wizard" class has
-In fact the only thing that should be done in regards to any CC immunity at the moment , is to give Exaltation the abiltiy to Cancel stuns/roots seeing as how the DC class is the only one that is currently devastated by CC
You may want to edit it, maurarders can not break out of icy rays, it only has the smallest possible chance (I didn't even do it) to avoid it. When in Icy rays Maurarder becomes unusable. The main reason why icy rays is a problem is because not only does it do a lot of damage, but it also gaurantees a 100% chance to follow up with a rotation. The only people who have a chance at avoiding the rotation is the HR who has to hope they didn't use disruptive in the last 23 seconds. It's on the same bases as PB. Not because the damage is undodgable but because what follows is undodgable. Yes you can stop it with a CC break or disruptive but you can stop PB with a CC it'self. If you're gonna take one out of the game you can't leave the other in because you feel every 13 seconds you should have a 100% chance to land your rotation
ROFL disruptive's cooldown is effected by the royal guard's set, which any decent HR uses so no way in hell a decent HR should have a 23s CD on it. Also, repel is still Deflected 30% of the time so you don't even get pushed back, 1v1 vs a CW if its your node, then you should win that fight 90% of the time, if you are with a cleric, then there is no way in hell you should ever die vs a CW. and you are only complaining about Icy rays because you apparently have no idea how to get out of it, you never waste disruptive immediatly after, you should always try to fox/marauders out, watch for the ice knife then disruptive into boars charge.
You are just grasping at straws to save something that should never have been in the game and have ZERO counters, nearly every class can avoid Icy rays, It even shows a mark before being casted to warn the target (if you could possibly forget about that) and yes, marauders can break you out of Icy rays, Please learn your class before coming onto the forums and crying
Making it dodgable is not removing the CC capabilities.. It's just upping the amount of skill required, don't forget that it will still have a load of damage it can cast. Also, they're trying to make you chose between control and damage, so if you'd rather more control then remove one of your damaging class features (EOTS and SS) and replace it with the control one (Orb of Imposition)
You don't know the HR very well.
The cooldown is substantially lower than IR.
Also Disruptive is an interrupt and a daze, and the enemy can just move, not cast during its action.
During Icy Rays, which is a Root, you are stuck, but can free cast.
You need to keep in mind I love my HR and don't want it nerfed. I don't want it to be cheezy either, however. In fact, my guildie&friend who has a better HR than me argue quite often on the extent of the fixes/nerfs for the class. She is playing a page 1 BiS HR, and she would see the HR nerfed in ways I would never want.
well again. you are talking about 100% of avoiding damage against - perfect timing to get 0.1 sec right for HR on encounters that are not really designed to avoid damage in fact.) You are making it CW vs HR while Im talking about making it equal for HR and GWf or GF as melee fighter to avoid rooting.
And for HR rooting is bigger problem since movement is our main defense. So having MARA escape to add cc breaker OR making all(!) encounters dodgable without exceptions is correct. Not just Ice Ray but also fox shift and mara. All encounters to respect dodge.
And if you think out of box making CW useless (witch is by your statement is actually - making CW not able to kill HRs since ice rays can be avoided by GF GWF TR) to making all classes having equal possibilities bases on their mechanics.
Cause otherwise - CW vs CW ? should one CW be able to teleport out of ice rays or he should be rooted as HR? either or but not both.
I'm not talking about when I'm with my cleric I'm talking about when I'm at home node. I don't stay there the whole match, I stay there until the point is captured. If I'm in the middle of capturing a node and a CW comes I HAVE to.. I repeat HAVE to use disruptive shot before they use entangling.. Know why? Because I'm not stepping off the node and letting points leak so I can go kill some CW ESPECIALLY IF IT'S IN A PREMADE MATCH. You think the CW is gonna use entangling and then wait until it's finished to use icy rays? If so then you have a lot to learn about your class. I could dodge out of entangling but most likely I'm going to end up being dragged right back in to it because of my buggy dodges. So as soon as I use disrupted show the CW is not going to come on the node because he knows that I'm not going to let points leak and he also knows that I would murder him in combat and regain my HP with lifesteal. So as soon as disruptive is over (It's a short CC) Royal Guard or not I'm GOING to get icy rays and I'm GOING to get chill striked and I'm GOING to get icy knifed and I'm GOING to end up in the spawn. Also note that tenacity is apart of the CC resistance that we get, and by wearing the RG I'm now left with 650 Tenacity (That's IF I have the rings) meaning the CW just got longer control on top of that burst damage
Sorry I was wrong about the disruptive cooldown (I can't get online right now) and don't forget that on another thread a said myself that PB with glyphs is way out of proportion (of course that was at the time I was testing my CW and how fast he could kill things). What I'm saying is that if we're going to go pointing fingers at PB and then try to defend IR then it's hypocritical... Because both in fact avoid dodges , yes you can stop ir with immunity, just like you can stop PB by using a CC to control the HR, and taking away PB just ruined the HR in PvP completely, but making it respect stuff is just toning down. It's the same for the CW, they're not going to be punching bags again, that's a lie..... With PB respecting defense or dodges or whatever GMC is gonna do + the glyph fixes to it just basically cut the rate of the life the HR is stealing in half which puts them in a reasonable spot. They're going to fix the glyphs as well as the GF putting them in a reasonable spot. They're making the Whirlwind of Blades build useless by making it respect defense + their buffs putting them in a reasonable spot, and then you're going to have a CW that can icy rays anyone and hold down the right click button while betting his friends that storm spell will proc before assailant.
Thats the thing, you are saying if the other team is in control of a node and you are 1v1 vs a CW, that is literally the one time a CW should be able to kill you, although if you ignore the node for less than 10s you could clear the CW and get back on the node and cap it freely,
although the same is the opposite for the CW, if its your node, then the Cw is dead, because there is no way in hell to far cast the HR and there is no way to escape due to marauders, And again you apparently don't know your own class, because they improved the dodges of a HR with the launch of MOD4, go read the notes on it
I know my class from experience pf playing it. How can you tell me that I don't know my class because you read that the devs said something about it. Well guess what, the devs said that the class changes would bring balance but did it? So because you "read" something doesn't mean you've experienced it. Of course maybe if I read the patch notes my dodges will magically get better. Lke I said, I'm not defending PB I know that with glyphs it's out of control, but if they nerf PB and the glyphs then HRs are now a punching bag to CW... If they nerf the GF then CWs is going to be the OPest class in this module. The only way to bring balance is by turning the damage from your auto procs down or making icy rays dodgable so you don't have a 100% chance to land your rotation. Idk maybe if you knew how to play your class you wouldn't need icy rays to be good at something
+1
Make Icy Rays Dodge-able. Fix the Red Glyph Reflect Perma Daily GF's. ty.
DING DING, this is exactly what caused this QQ fest in the first place. When the glyphs proc in melee it causes piercing blade to be applied as well for every tick. Nerfing piercing blade and icy rays is a BAD MOVE, just FIX THE **** GLYPHS then worry about other stuff being OP in PVP.
At this point, BIS CWs lose to BIS HRs and BIS GFs and now we are removing their best skill?
We've already discovered that HRs and troll GFs are out of control so CWs should not be balanced to fit in line with out OP they are right now
While we're on the change HRs subject how about constricting? It was changed to cater to one specific path and let down the rest of the paths.
Yeah, be careful what u ask for. So many QQs about HRs unresistable dmg, and that it should be nerfed, but a clearly bugged power should not be fixed? Talk about hipocrites…
Just to be clear: I dont want Icy rays to be dodgeable. I dont want whirlwind of blades fixed either, and I like the principle of PB. And I had nothing against an unresistable assailant force.
But if u pull out ur crybabyness about one power, you cant cover ur eyes for the others which are bugged/OP.
It can not be dodged. No matter when you time it. It doesn't dodge the root. You get rooted regardless. Go check again. In fact, if they cast Icy ray on you in the middle of your dodge, you are rooted when you finish your roll. Go check for yourself.. I can't believe you are a system designer and don't know the mechanics of the game you are supposed to be working on.
You should actually listen to some of the posts in this thread and others and fix the real problem.. Which is the GLYPHS. And then look into the problems with the OP one button mash CW's with the undodgeable Icy Rays, the glyph perma daily reflect GF's and the PB HR's..
You shouldn't even be looking at those other things until you fix the glyphs first though.
Nor should you change Icy rays.
There is no problem with Icy rays in PVE, there is no problem with CWs at high level premade PVP. They still get stomped by a BIS HR. GF's troll reflect builds are still the biggest indicator of which team will win.
CWs have no get out of jail free card and are fairly squishy compared to most classes.