um these 2 skills are easily dodgeable, might be your personal problem
Those two skills seriously lack consistency in action and result.
Sometimes you dodge it easily. Sometimes you dodge and avoid the damage, but then the CC is applied. Half the time you've dodged it with good timing and running 15~20feet away, no CC at all, but the damage just comes in.
To ask consistency in action and results isn't "personal problem". It's asking for a fix that makes sense. Just like asking to get rid of successful results despite bad timing makes sense.
...because my logic is that people wanting powers that are either "predestined to hit once activated, no matter what" or "so insanely spectacular in performance that the probability of successful defensive action is cloe to zero", are simply wrong.
Stop making excuses. Be a man. If you know something to be broken, stop using it. Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
0
reagenlionel1Member, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
lenthow, Icy Rays can be dodged -- you might want to lay off the developer insult a bit.
It's one of those powers that activate so fast that it is practically impossible to do so - hence usually referred to as being "undodgeable". So, gentlemancrush would be wrong in that it doesn't take incredible skill to dodge it - what it takes is either incredible guesswork or incredible luck. No matter what the people claim I've not seen people dodge it intentionally during the heat of combat. I've even seen people failing to dodge it during testings in IWD.
It's just one of those things that might happen once in a few months as you dodge around and somehow perfect timing is set -- hence, practically worthless to note that its 'dodgeable', because realistically speaking, it's not going to happen.
He is right. that attack is not dodgable, no matter the invincibility frame. You will still get rooted, even in the middle of your invincibility dodge. Not to mention the damage is STILL applied as well.
Icy rays is not dodgable and never has been no matter at which time you dodge or when the skill is activated.I dont blame him for going at the developer like that and cut the abilities targeting in half and nerfed its damage for the sake of adding this in, which is neglible as it gives you less than a second of cc immunity anyway.
because this is the same thing as when they claimed Fox Shift gave you CC immunity and untargetable which it certainly did not do at the time. So the following patch they changed it to do what they THOUGHT it was doing the whole time.
lenthow, Icy Rays can be dodged -- you might want to lay off the developer insult a bit.
Get off your knees and go check for yourself. If you are hit with Icy Rays in the middle of a Dodge, you will be rooted when your dodge finishes (when you finish rolling on a TR), you are then forced to either pop ITC, or sit there planted if you are a DC or HR. You can escape from being rooted as a HR using mid range melee encounters if the CW is dumb enough to get right next to you after he Auto roots you. Otherwise, you are rooted regardless of how perfect you time your dodge. You will get rooted no matter what. Just because he is a system designer doesn't mean he gets a pass.. In fact, he should know more than any of us..
Get off your knees and go check for yourself. If you are hit with Icy Rays in the middle of a Dodge, you will be rooted when your dodge finishes (when you finish rolling on a TR), you are then forced to either pop ITC, or sit there planted if you are a DC or HR. You can escape from being rooted as a HR using mid range melee encounters if the CW is dumb enough to get right next to you after he Auto roots you. Otherwise, you are rooted regardless of how perfect you time your dodge. You will get rooted no matter what. Just because he is a system designer doesn't mean he gets a pass.. In fact, he should know more than any of us..
It is dodgeable as I've clearly experienced cases where I hear both the **ching** activation sound as well as the visible rune -- and yet the power fails to land and I am mobile. Except, as I've mentioned, in the total of a year or so in this game I've only had that happened to me less than 10 times total, probably even less than 5 times.
It happens when the activation sequence of the dodge is near simultaneous with the activation of Ice Rays, and gc mentioned it was 0.4 seconds, which explains the difficulty of matching the dodge frame to those exact 0.4 seconds of activation.
Like I said, it is practically impossible and extremely improbable that happens -- sort of like it is improbable to expect a metorite landing on top of your head -- but that doesn't mean it doesn't happen. Ofcourse the rare cases it happens is no excuse for IR, as it counts more as an accident rather any conscious result of PvP tactics/maneuvers -- but it does happen.
It's not my fault you people don't have enough number of games under your belt to have experienced that in extremely rare cases, there are times when a successful dodge does happens against IR.
Stop making excuses. Be a man. If you know something to be broken, stop using it. Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
It is dodgeable as I've clearly experienced cases where I hear both the **ching** activation sound as well as the visible rune -- and yet the power fails to land and I am mobile. Except, as I've mentioned, in the total of a year or so in this game I've only had that happened to me less than 10 times total, probably even less than 5 times.
It happens when the activation sequence of the dodge is near simultaneous with the activation of Ice Rays, and gc mentioned it was 0.4 seconds, which explains the difficulty of matching the dodge frame to those exact 0.4 seconds of activation.
Like I said, it is practically impossible and extremely improbable that happens -- sort of like it is improbable to expect a metorite landing on top of your head -- but that doesn't mean it doesn't happen. Ofcourse the rare cases it happens is no excuse for IR, as it counts more as an accident rather any conscious result of PvP tactics/maneuvers -- but it does happen.
It's not my fault you people don't have enough number of games under your belt to have experienced that in extremely rare cases, there are times when a successful dodge does happens against IR.
I'd assume with extremely low latency and lag it'd be easier to dodge, so for us aussies it's a bit harder, Tbh I have less problem with Cw's than I used too since the chill change, On my GWF (19k) I can kill them now if they are of a lower gear score/ actual player skill and if I stutter my sprint as I run at them making it a lot harder for them to land a reliable root, however with the latency I find I am help in some cases a few seconds after my sprint animation starts due to it happening later for them than it does for me. The classes that drop me almost every time are like HR (almost any GS as long as they have red glyph and are combat spec, I've been killed in under 3 seconds before to this) and GF (faced onw in IWD, he 4v1'd me and some friends, I'm 19k my friends were 17k 16k and 16k CW and 2 Hr's, he was BIS though)
It is dodgeable as I've clearly experienced cases where I hear both the **ching** activation sound as well as the visible rune -- and yet the power fails to land and I am mobile. Except, as I've mentioned, in the total of a year or so in this game I've only had that happened to me less than 10 times total, probably even less than 5 times.
It happens when the activation sequence of the dodge is near simultaneous with the activation of Ice Rays, and gc mentioned it was 0.4 seconds, which explains the difficulty of matching the dodge frame to those exact 0.4 seconds of activation.
Like I said, it is practically impossible and extremely improbable that happens -- sort of like it is improbable to expect a metorite landing on top of your head -- but that doesn't mean it doesn't happen. Ofcourse the rare cases it happens is no excuse for IR, as it counts more as an accident rather any conscious result of PvP tactics/maneuvers -- but it does happen.
It's not my fault you people don't have enough number of games under your belt to have experienced that in extremely rare cases, there are times when a successful dodge does happens against IR.
That makes no sense whatsoever. That is not how the dodge works. Typically you are immune from the moment you begin to dodge, to a half second or so after your dodge comes to a complete stop. You can get hit by Icy Rays in the middle of a dodge, which should make you immune, and yet, when the dodge comes to a stop, you are still rooted. If it were dodgeable, it would be dodged often regardless of how fast it casts, even disruptive shot which has almost no cast speed gets dodged A LOT. This simply just isn't the case with Icy Rays. I understand you wanted to stick up for that "system designer", but you and he are both wrong. Go check for yourself. Cast Icy Ray on someone in the middle of their dodge. They still get rooted. Disruptive Shot has to have just as fast of a cast speed and gets dodged all the time if the dodge is timed right. Icy Rays does not regardless of when you dodge.
That makes no sense whatsoever. That is not how the dodge works. Typically you are immune from the moment you begin to dodge, to a half second or so after your dodge comes to a complete stop. You can get hit by Icy Rays in the middle of a dodge, which should make you immune, and yet, when the dodge comes to a stop, you are still rooted. If it were dodgeable, it would be dodged often regardless of how fast it casts, even disruptive shot which has almost no cast speed gets dodged A LOT. This simply just isn't the case with Icy Rays. I understand you wanted to stick up for that "system designer", but you and he are both wrong. Go check for yourself. Cast Icy Ray on someone in the middle of their dodge. They still get rooted. Disruptive Shot has to have just as fast of a cast speed and gets dodged all the time if the dodge is timed right. Icy Rays does not regardless of when you dodge.
On the first part - you may be confusing activation time with time of impact of the rays. Hit/miss is calculated when the power is activated, not when the rays hit the target. This is part of what makes it so difficult to dodge.
On the second part - anyone dodging disruptive shot is doing so almost entirely coincidentally. The power has zero tell and virtually zero cast time. You pretty much have to guess when it's going to be fired. And I can't remember the last time anyone dodged a disruptive shot that I fired.
reagenlionel1Member, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited September 2014
Dodging disruptive shot is possible. It has more to do with either coincidential, or predicting when it will be fire.
No manner of prediction can dodge Icy Rays. What Kweesa is describing is getting out of the range of Icy Rays when the CW is trying to trigger it. Not actually dodging the attack. For you will get rooted AND damaged, everytime. As long as you're targetable, You ARE getting hit with it. Guaranteed.
- HR: use Marauders Escape as they fire. Needs practice, anticipation, skill, won't work all time. It's not a Dodge, it's a "stealth". Negates both CC and Dmg components.
- HR: use Disruptive immediately while plinked/rooted. Try to prone with Boar if possible afterwards too.
- HR: use Fox Shift on any target that is close enough
- TR: Stealth as they fire. The window of opportunity here is a bit larger. Negates both CC and Dmg components.
- GWF: go unstoppable. Threatening Rush. FLS then Takedown the CW if close enough to break their combo. L2BE Sprinty, stop facetanking everything.
- GF: TR/Lunge. Probably other stuff working too? Villain's Menace. Shield up... obviously. GF>IR at this time.
- SW: sprint out of range might work. Sprint anticipating the opening with IR form a CW.
- ALL CLASSES: try to outrange the second plink/root/dmg. Do your very best to do it. LoS the CW, get out of range. This will put IR on their very long 13 secs or so cooldown.
Devoted Cleric. This class is the ONLY. ONLY... that needs a CC immune/escape vs stuff such as Icy Rays. Annointed Army (I think) works but very few DCs use it, and it's a daily. Exaltation when caught on IR is great to have and almost all good DCs mastered its timing. A CC immune on Exaltation should be just fine.
There is no problem with Icy rays in PVE, there is no problem with CWs at high level premade PVP. They still get stomped by a BIS HR. GF's troll reflect builds are still the biggest indicator of which team will win.
CWs have no get out of jail free card and are fairly squishy compared to most classes.
It's a no skill move and a ridiculous mechanic. However it's one of the few things they have going for them and can easily be useless with a few tweaks in pvp. And of course there are ridiculous mechanics and balance for lots of other classes. But in an ideal balanced game, it'd be dodgeable.
On the first part - you may be confusing activation time with time of impact of the rays. Hit/miss is calculated when the power is activated, not when the rays hit the target. This is part of what makes it so difficult to dodge.
No, there is no confusion. If a person casts Icy Rays on you in the middle of your dodge, you still get rooted. Period. It is not dodgeable.
On the second part - anyone dodging disruptive shot is doing so almost entirely coincidentally. The power has zero tell and virtually zero cast time. You pretty much have to guess when it's going to be fired. And I can't remember the last time anyone dodged a disruptive shot that I fired.
Exactly, and yet.. It happens all the time. This simply does not happen with Icy Rays, despite the cast time being the same, simply because Icy Rays is not dodge able.
- HR: use Marauders Escape as they fire. Needs practice, anticipation, skill, won't work all time. It's not a Dodge, it's a "stealth". Negates both CC and Dmg components.
- HR: use Disruptive immediately while plinked/rooted. Try to prone with Boar if possible afterwards too.
- HR: use Fox Shift on any target that is close enough
- TR: Stealth as they fire. The window of opportunity here is a bit larger. Negates both CC and Dmg components.
- GWF: go unstoppable. Threatening Rush. FLS then Takedown the CW if close enough to break their combo. L2BE Sprinty, stop facetanking everything.
- GF: TR/Lunge. Probably other stuff working too? Villain's Menace. Shield up... obviously. GF>IR at this time.
- SW: sprint out of range might work. Sprint anticipating the opening with IR form a CW.
- ALL CLASSES: try to outrange the second plink/root/dmg. Do your very best to do it. LoS the CW, get out of range. This will put IR on their very long 13 secs or so cooldown.
Devoted Cleric. This class is the ONLY. ONLY... that needs a CC immune/escape vs stuff such as Icy Rays. Anointed Army (I think) works but very few DCs use it, and it's a daily. Exaltation when caught on IR is great to have and almost all good DCs mastered its timing. A CC immune on Exaltation should be just fine.
Pretty much full explanation of what to do with "extremely skillful but doge able IR". Problem is that if you you play next to game server 0.4 sec is enough to perfect some skill.But if you play somewhere in city or further - 400 ms is your latency window. For those who think that does not matter - look at all stock markets fighting for 3 ms extra time. That is why people say it can or can not be dodged at all.
So it maybe doge able by design, but it has nothing to do with skill. Well this is not the first time designers of game don't know a clue about how game works live. Sure - go use some cheats on top secret server to test it rather then fix Glypthes.
I should clarify, I made no mention of changing Icy Rays because at this time I have no intention of doing so. It *can* already be dodged, and because it activates so fast it takes incredible skill to do so. Countering it is tough, but not impossible. At this time Icy Rays will remain unchanged.
Good. Icy Rays should not be changed. Its good as it is.
- HR: use Marauders Escape as they fire. Needs practice, anticipation, skill, won't work all time. It's not a Dodge, it's a "stealth". Negates both CC and Dmg components.
This is wrong. If you use Marauders Escape at just the right time, you will rush backwards, but you will still be CC'd when the animation comes to a stop. Same thing if a GF or a GWF lands a stun on you when you try to Escape. You still get CC'd at the Escape animation comes to an end.
Once being rooted, Marauders Rush/Escape is no longer usable. You can however escape Icy Rays as a HR using Boar Charge or Fox Shift, IF, and only IF, there is an enemy who is within range to allow you to jump free from the Root of Icy rays. If the CW is the only one there, and he keeps his distance, there is no way to dodge or escape from Icy Rays. Please get your facts straight.
- HR: use Disruptive immediately while plinked/rooted. Try to prone with Boar if possible afterwards too.
If you have the AP, If it is not on CD. And this is one class we are talking about, on how to deal with an UNDODGEABLE Attack. Ridiculous. Also, they can dodge disruptive shot and not get stunned or take damage at all.
- HR: use Fox Shift on any target that is close enough
Again, IF there is a target close by in range. If not? There is still no way to dodge Icy Rays which is the point people are making.
- TR: Stealth as they fire. The window of opportunity here is a bit larger. Negates both CC and Dmg components.
Actually no. You can get rooted as you stealth and you receive both the CC and Damage. This has happened countless times on my TR.
- GWF: go unstoppable. Threatening Rush. FLS then Takedown the CW if close enough to break their combo. L2BE Sprinty, stop facetanking everything.
Everyone already knows that the GWF is auto immune with Shift tapping. That still doesn't justify an undodgeable attack for CW's when everyone is crying for Undodgeable attacks to be removed. Especially when there is so many classes that simply can not counter this. HR can only counter situationally, IF there is someone in range to allow the HR to escape from the root. DC can't do anything about it. Whisperknife TR can't do anything about it. There is no reason for Icy Rays to be undodgeable. CW's are already cheesy easy mode 1 button smash as it is. They should require timing like all other classes.
- ALL CLASSES: try to outrange the second plink/root/dmg. Do your very best to do it. LoS the CW, get out of range. This will put IR on their very long 13 secs or so cooldown.
OR, you could just make the Icy Rays dodgeable so that newb CW's learn how to time their spells rather than just spamming encounters.
Devoted Cleric. This class is the ONLY. ONLY... that needs a CC immune/escape vs stuff such as Icy Rays. Annointed Army (I think) works but very few DCs use it, and it's a daily. Exaltation when caught on IR is great to have and almost all good DCs mastered its timing. A CC immune on Exaltation should be just fine.
No, as I showed above, you are wrong.
There is no reason to have Icy Rays undodgeable. The only ones crying for it to remain are the no skill CW's who are happy with their one button smashing, encounter spamming, easy mode they have received in Mod 4.
Pretty much full explanation of what to do with "extremely skillful but doge able IR". Problem is that if you you play next to game server 0.4 sec is enough to perfect some skill.But if you play somewhere in city or further - 400 ms is your latency window. For those who think that does not matter - look at all stock markets fighting for 3 ms extra time. That is why people say it can or can not be dodged at all.
So it maybe doge able by design, but it has nothing to do with skill. Well this is not the first time designers of game don't know a clue about how game works live. Sure - go use some cheats on top secret server to test it rather then fix Glypthes.
No, people say it can not be dodged because it can't be dodged. Disruptive shot has just as fast if not faster cast time, and yet.. It is dodged ALL the time. Icy Rays is simply undodgeable. Sad thing is, we have System Designers who don't even know wtf is up with their own game they are supposed to be working on.. and on top of that.. we have newb CW's who know better, but will lie and say anything, to keep their class from being balanced because they have no timing whatsoever, and enjoy the undodgable Icy Rays.
Actually, I have tested Marauders. I have also tested Stealth (in M3 though), specifically for this purpose - Icy Rays. Stealthing it WORKS. But you have to be far enough for the CW to NOT see you.
Lost target=no damage/CC Icy Rays.
Anyway, you want to make Icy Rays dodgeable.
I gave this example before, take a very close look at it:
- Before Shield changes, GF vs CW was a balanced fight
- Shield changes, GF now able to resist Chill stacks and Icy Rays root with their "dodge" move, i.e. Shield.
Result?
GF vs CW is a 99.9% win for the GF.
So no. You don't get to take Icy Rays from the CWs. They fully depend in PvP on it.
BTW, I play both HR and CW, for clarification reasons. I am very attached to each class.
Actually, I have tested Marauders. I have also tested Stealth (in M3 though), specifically for this purpose - Icy Rays. Stealthing it WORKS. But you have to be far enough for the CW to NOT see you.
Lost target=no damage/CC Icy Rays.
Anyway, you want to make Icy Rays dodgeable.
I gave this example before, take a very close look at it:
- Before Shield changes, GF vs CW was a balanced fight
- Shield changes, GF now able to resist Chill stacks and Icy Rays root with their "dodge" move, i.e. Shield.
Result?
GF vs CW is a 99.9% win for the GF.
So no. You don't get to take Icy Rays from the CWs. They fully depend in PvP on it.
BTW, I play both HR and CW, for clarification reasons. I am very attached to each class.
So your reasoning is that, since another broken OP class (The reflect, perma Daily, Glyph GF), can beat a broken OP CW, then no changes should be made.. Despite the fact that other classes can't counter this undodgeable, no skill encounter.
You are an idiot.
Learn some timing. Make Icy Rays dodgeable. Fix the glyphs. Fix the perma daily reflect GF's, etc. You don't leave 1 class broken simply because another broken class is able to deal with it.
As for your testing, I suggest you go try again now that we are in Mod 4, not mod 3. It is not dodgeable and the Marauders escape/rush works (or doesn't work rather) as I described
So your reasoning is that, since another broken OP class (The reflect, perma Daily, Glyph GF), can beat a broken OP CW, then no changes should be made.. Despite the fact that other classes can't counter this undodgeable, no skill encounter.
You are an idiot.
Learn some timing. Make Icy Rays dodgeable. Fix the glyphs. Fix the perma daily reflect GF's, etc. You don't leave 1 class broken simply because another broken class is able to deal with it.
Personal attacks make one look lazy and destroys your credibility
GF doesn't need to be permadaily Red glyph KV GF.
Classical Lunge/FLS/Bull Charge or throw Anvil somewhere will do just fine.
Actually, I have tested Marauders. I have also tested Stealth (in M3 though), specifically for this purpose - Icy Rays. Stealthing it WORKS. But you have to be far enough for the CW to NOT see you.
Lost target=no damage/CC Icy Rays.
Anyway, you want to make Icy Rays dodgeable.
I gave this example before, take a very close look at it:
- Before Shield changes, GF vs CW was a balanced fight
- Shield changes, GF now able to resist Chill stacks and Icy Rays root with their "dodge" move, i.e. Shield.
Result?
GF vs CW is a 99.9% win for the GF.
So no. You don't get to take Icy Rays from the CWs. They fully depend in PvP on it.
BTW, I play both HR and CW, for clarification reasons. I am very attached to each class.
Ice rays shall stay for CW. They just need to fix dodge to be reliable rather then 0.4s window where you get rooted in midle of dodge. That is obvious defect. Like apply piercing 40% damage to original roll of encounter rather then to migitated value. And not fixing CW Ice Rays dodge - that effect only HR - cause of GWF are overpowered by your oppinion agains CW and you can not kill them - is <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> logic. This is exactly CW crybaby behavior.
If you know HR history well - you know how much nerfs HRs got that we depended on before. Like constructive arrow- that was major antiCW power we had before. All in favor of OP CWs
Ice rays shall stay for CW. They just need to fix dodge to be reliable rather then 0.4s window where you get rooted in midle of dodge. That is obvious defect. Like apply piercing 40% damage to original roll of encounter rather then to migitated value. And not fixing CW Ice Rays dodge - that effect only HR - cause of GWF are overpowered by your oppinion agains CW and you can not kill them - is <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> logic. This is exactly CW crybaby behavior.
If you know HR history well - you know how much nerfs HRs got that we depended on before. Like constructive arrow- that was major antiCW power we had before. All in favor of OP CWs
I was talking about GF and Shield, but GWF with their permaImmunity Sprint/Unstoppable is a good example as well.
HR still has the advantage over CWs, especially on a node - even with the nerfs, and even without Constrictive. If the area it's larger and CW can kite, there is actually balance at equal gear&skill between these classes.
The real issue for HR and Icy Rays comes from the fact that if a CW can IR you, his teammates will probably kill you while you are rooted.
But then again: should you be able to 1vs2?
PS:
- in Mod 3, my HR was GODMODE vs CWs, primarily due to Constrictive/Disruptive permaCC. That was not fair. I could kill the best BiS CWs in the game without losing much, if any HP. Things are better now, balance wise.
- Icy rays is even a bigger issue for guess what class? Control Wizard. Yes, we cannot escape it, and we die a lot because of it as well, as we are not tanky, and not have nice LS and WM heals. So any CW can understand your predicament.
Personal attacks make one look lazy and destroys your credibility
GF doesn't need to be permadaily Red glyph KV GF.
Classical Lunge/FLS/Bull Charge or throw Anvil somewhere will do just fine.
0 chances for the CW.
Why?
Because they lost Icy Rays, on which they depend.
Just because a CW 'needs' a certain broken, defective, or plain unfair result hardly justifies its existence.
TRs used to lay down the exact same argument with Shocking Execution, before the nerf. It does too much damage. It ignores mitigation. It's undodgeable, and in most cases it's an "I-win" button. And what did the TRs argue then? It's needed. It's the only power that can really deal damage during the days where GWFs were gods-on-earth.
So did the HRs, when people mentioned how bullshi* the Constricting Arrow and Grasping Roots mechanic was. CA went through immunites, Grasping Roots ignored both immunities AND dodge. HRs argued how important that OP, broken, bugged mechanic was.
In a sense, it's not difficult to imagine how much CWs depend on Icy Rays. Since it's so powerful as to be considered "undodgeable" to most, ofcourse it's one of the most effective powers. MOST BROKEN POWERS ARE.
What the game, and the players, need is principle, and then build balance around it, not the other way around. If Icy Rays is such a big problem, then it needs a fix on the lines that respects the basic attack-defend mechanism of the gameplay. If the loss of Icy Rays (it's not even a 'loss'. It's simply a fix that requires the CWs to time it better, as anyone should with their powers, for crying out loud) results in a dramatic shift or something, then other compensations are devised. That's how you balance stuff, not by advocating a broken thing.
Stop making excuses. Be a man. If you know something to be broken, stop using it. Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
No, he's not wrong. You are. Marauder's Escape *can* be used to avoid Icy Rays. It's difficult to pull it off, though. I've seen it done, but most HRs obviously lack the skill and knowledge to do it.
The only way that it can "avoid" Icy Rays is by putting you out of range of the CW. If the CW casts Icy Rays on you, you will be rooted. Period. You are wrong. I have pulled it off where I start my escape animation and then am rooted at the end of the animation. This also can happen with a GWF or Gf stun when using escape.
Disruptive Shot tends to be rather hard to dodge because there's no tell to dodge it by. The casting time is that short. Which is natural, since it's supposed to be an interrupt, for circumstances like these. Dodging it is based on luck and guesswork.
Sure, it takes guess work.. but it happens all the time. It is a dodgeable skill, even though the cast time is just as fast as Icy Rays if not faster. Yet, Icy rays is unable to be dodged. My point exactly.
Well, yes. But Icy Rays not being dodgeable isn't something new. It's been like this since the start of the game. And CWs depend on it to stand a chance against HRs. As it is right now, CWs are a middle-tier PvP class. They only win cleanly against DCs and SWs. GFs absolutely slaughter CWs, GWFs and HRs have the advantage against CWs.
Thank you for at least admitting that it isn't Dodgeable. GG.
If CWs couldn't root HRs through their dodges, HRs would absolutely own CWs again, just like it was in module 3.
Not if the CW had some actual skill and Timed his encounters like every other class has to.
There's no "timing" when the opponent has more dodges and interrupts than you have spells. This is why Icy Rays countering that is necessary, to prevent CWs from being a total free-kill for HRs.
This shows how little you even know about HR's or the game itself. The CW's dodge immunity frame for the 3 shifts they have is actually longer than the immunity time that a HR gets from his 6 dodges. The Immunity for a dodge on a CW, TR, DC starts from the moment you hit shift, to about 1 second after you come to a stop. The HR immunity time for the mini shifts is a fraction of that.
High end Red Glyph CW's have no problem 1 rotationing most ppl. Especially with the No skill, Undodgeable Icy Rays.
Actually, most CWs I see in this thread have all been rather vocal that they prefer the old-school, pre-module 4 CW as far more fun and better gameplay than all the auto-proc stuff we get now. So what you're saying here amounts to nonsense. Give CWs back a good shard, restore single-target spell damage, nerf Storm Spell, nerf glyphs. CWs would rejoice, apart from the bad band-wagoning ones.
Good call, lets bring back some skill and timing back to the CW class and get rid of undodgable bull **** like Icy Rays.
It is true that they made CWs easy to play, which does make them appear to be overpowered to people who aren't very skilled.
But at higher levels of skill, most classes can and will have the advantage against CWs. Icy Rays in its current form is necessary for CWs to even stand a chance against HRs; HRs already have the advantage against CWs, but it's still a fight. Without Icy Rays, it would just be a roflstomp again, like in module 3.
CW's were never, roflstomp, even in module 3, unless you had no skill. High end CW's are not at any disadvantage vs "most classes" at this time, unless again, they have no skill whatsoever.
At least people are being honest now about Icy Rays not being dodgeable.
As for your testing, I suggest you go try again now that we are in Mod 4, not mod 3. It is not dodgeable and the Marauders escape/rush works (or doesn't work rather) as I described
I tested HR vs CW in M4. I only played TR in M3, but I doubt any changes occurred.
Mara still works, but it's not reliable. I am just trying to tell you it works.
I once suggested that Marauders would make the HR able to escape Root in the Preview forums.
I tested HR vs CW in M4. I only played TR in M3, but I doubt any changes occurred.
Mara still works, but it's not reliable. I am just trying to tell you it works.
I once suggested that Marauders would make the HR able to escape Root in the Preview forums.
Was ignored.
I have a TR and I know for a fact, that if they begin casting Icy Rays and you stealth, You will get rooted and take the damage, albeit still stealthed. Your stealth meter takes a huge hit though, and you are visible again within seconds when this happens.
As for HR Marauders Escape, you are wrong. If you cast Marauders Escape at the same exact time they cast Icy Rays, you will still go through with the escape, but you will take the damage and still be rooted at the end of the animation. It has happened to me countless times. The same thing happens when you get stunned by a GF or GWF at the same exact time you use your Escape. You will be CC'd at the end of the Marauders Escape animation.
If you are already rooted by Icy Rays, Marauders Escape/rush, is completely unusable. Period. The only way to then escape, is to hope that the CW is a <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> and comes within close melee range to allow for you to boar charge or Fox shift out of the roots.. Otherwise you are stuck. And this is just one class we are talking about. There is no solution at all for the DC or the whisperknife TR.
The idea of having a undodgeable CC attack is <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> in the first place, which is why people made this thread. To have that stupid <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> removed. Icy Rays should not be undodgeable.. and yet it is. No matter when it is casted upon you. Whether you are in the middle of a Dodge when it is casted or what, you get rooted no matter what. It needs to be fixed. No more no skill undodgeable bs.
I was talking about GF and Shield, but GWF with their permaImmunity Sprint/Unstoppable is a good example as well.
HR still has the advantage over CWs, especially on a node - even with the nerfs, and even without Constrictive. If the area it's larger and CW can kite, there is actually balance at equal gear&skill between these classes.
The real issue for HR and Icy Rays comes from the fact that if a CW can IR you, his teammates will probably kill you while you are rooted.
But then again: should you be able to 1vs2?
PS:
- in Mod 3, my HR was GODMODE vs CWs, primarily due to Constrictive/Disruptive permaCC. That was not fair. I could kill the best BiS CWs in the game without losing much, if any HP. Things are better now, balance wise.
- Icy rays is even a bigger issue for guess what class? Control Wizard. Yes, we cannot escape it, and we die a lot because of it as well, as we are not tanky, and not have nice LS and WM heals. So any CW can understand your predicament.
first - my typo - GF not GWF. But like you sad GWF is good example too.
well this is exactly the issue Im talking about. Make Ice Rays dodgable not by 'super skill of being next to server' is right. For both CW and HR.Make it reliably dodgable. Cause as you can see only this 2 don't really have any reliable way of getting out of it. Also DC? What they have?
Even thought dodge is now more responsive then in mod 3 we still face issues with latency lags and "0.4 sec enough time by game design". Can not pick what is actually worse of those.
And no I don't think that HR should be 1vs 2 kings. But having perma CC from CW pretty much makes HR dead meat to anyone else. Without a possible chance of working this out. As CW you can see this too -perma freeze you - you are done.
Plus lets not neglect all damage powers CW have among ice rays. CW can single target HR.And saying that HRs are 1vs 1 kings is wrong this days.
HR were nod holders in mod 3. Now we are pushed into one single fkn way of playing. Period.No variations allowed. Adding undogable that is supposed to dodgable is like making CW mod 4 kings instead of mod 2/3 GWFs
I should clarify, I made no mention of changing Icy Rays because at this time I have no intention of doing so. It *can* already be dodged, and because it activates so fast it takes incredible skill to do so. Countering it is tough, but not impossible. At this time Icy Rays will remain unchanged.
Winning the lottery a million times in a row isn't impossible either, but I feel like the chance of dodging icy ray is even lower than that.
Winning the lottery a million times in a row isn't impossible either, but I feel like the chance of dodging icy ray is even lower than that.
That is because it simply isn't dodgeable, as other CW's have already begun to admit. Disruptive shot has just as fast, if not faster cast time, and yet it can be dodged if you do not time it right, or the enemy gets lucky on his dodge timing. Regardless, Disruptive shot gets dodged all the time. If Icy Rays were dodgeable, you would see the same amount of luck dodges taking place as you see with disruptive shot, except you don't. Instead what you see, is a CW casting Icy Rays on someone mid way through a dodge, and the person who should have dodged the Icy Rays, still being rooted and taking full damage. They need to do away with the no skill, undodgeable bs.. the same way you can't dodge the PB effect, even if you dodge the encounter damage from an HR. Fix the undodgeable bs on all classes.
Comments
Branub <33333!!! Did you see the message I sent you !? I bought you your favorite book!!!
Mod 12.5 PvP Power/Crit/Arp Optimization
Youtube channel (PvE/PvP)
Those two skills seriously lack consistency in action and result.
Sometimes you dodge it easily. Sometimes you dodge and avoid the damage, but then the CC is applied. Half the time you've dodged it with good timing and running 15~20feet away, no CC at all, but the damage just comes in.
To ask consistency in action and results isn't "personal problem". It's asking for a fix that makes sense. Just like asking to get rid of successful results despite bad timing makes sense.
...because my logic is that people wanting powers that are either "predestined to hit once activated, no matter what" or "so insanely spectacular in performance that the probability of successful defensive action is cloe to zero", are simply wrong.
If you know something to be broken, stop using it.
Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
He is right. that attack is not dodgable, no matter the invincibility frame. You will still get rooted, even in the middle of your invincibility dodge. Not to mention the damage is STILL applied as well.
Icy rays is not dodgable and never has been no matter at which time you dodge or when the skill is activated.I dont blame him for going at the developer like that and cut the abilities targeting in half and nerfed its damage for the sake of adding this in, which is neglible as it gives you less than a second of cc immunity anyway.
because this is the same thing as when they claimed Fox Shift gave you CC immunity and untargetable which it certainly did not do at the time. So the following patch they changed it to do what they THOUGHT it was doing the whole time.
This is the same case here.
Get off your knees and go check for yourself. If you are hit with Icy Rays in the middle of a Dodge, you will be rooted when your dodge finishes (when you finish rolling on a TR), you are then forced to either pop ITC, or sit there planted if you are a DC or HR. You can escape from being rooted as a HR using mid range melee encounters if the CW is dumb enough to get right next to you after he Auto roots you. Otherwise, you are rooted regardless of how perfect you time your dodge. You will get rooted no matter what. Just because he is a system designer doesn't mean he gets a pass.. In fact, he should know more than any of us..
It is dodgeable as I've clearly experienced cases where I hear both the **ching** activation sound as well as the visible rune -- and yet the power fails to land and I am mobile. Except, as I've mentioned, in the total of a year or so in this game I've only had that happened to me less than 10 times total, probably even less than 5 times.
It happens when the activation sequence of the dodge is near simultaneous with the activation of Ice Rays, and gc mentioned it was 0.4 seconds, which explains the difficulty of matching the dodge frame to those exact 0.4 seconds of activation.
Like I said, it is practically impossible and extremely improbable that happens -- sort of like it is improbable to expect a metorite landing on top of your head -- but that doesn't mean it doesn't happen. Ofcourse the rare cases it happens is no excuse for IR, as it counts more as an accident rather any conscious result of PvP tactics/maneuvers -- but it does happen.
It's not my fault you people don't have enough number of games under your belt to have experienced that in extremely rare cases, there are times when a successful dodge does happens against IR.
If you know something to be broken, stop using it.
Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
I'd assume with extremely low latency and lag it'd be easier to dodge, so for us aussies it's a bit harder, Tbh I have less problem with Cw's than I used too since the chill change, On my GWF (19k) I can kill them now if they are of a lower gear score/ actual player skill and if I stutter my sprint as I run at them making it a lot harder for them to land a reliable root, however with the latency I find I am help in some cases a few seconds after my sprint animation starts due to it happening later for them than it does for me. The classes that drop me almost every time are like HR (almost any GS as long as they have red glyph and are combat spec, I've been killed in under 3 seconds before to this) and GF (faced onw in IWD, he 4v1'd me and some friends, I'm 19k my friends were 17k 16k and 16k CW and 2 Hr's, he was BIS though)
Drunken Goose of MidNight Express. - 3.3k Paladin , 3.6k GWF , 3.1k GF,
That makes no sense whatsoever. That is not how the dodge works. Typically you are immune from the moment you begin to dodge, to a half second or so after your dodge comes to a complete stop. You can get hit by Icy Rays in the middle of a dodge, which should make you immune, and yet, when the dodge comes to a stop, you are still rooted. If it were dodgeable, it would be dodged often regardless of how fast it casts, even disruptive shot which has almost no cast speed gets dodged A LOT. This simply just isn't the case with Icy Rays. I understand you wanted to stick up for that "system designer", but you and he are both wrong. Go check for yourself. Cast Icy Ray on someone in the middle of their dodge. They still get rooted. Disruptive Shot has to have just as fast of a cast speed and gets dodged all the time if the dodge is timed right. Icy Rays does not regardless of when you dodge.
On the second part - anyone dodging disruptive shot is doing so almost entirely coincidentally. The power has zero tell and virtually zero cast time. You pretty much have to guess when it's going to be fired. And I can't remember the last time anyone dodged a disruptive shot that I fired.
Aelar Hawkwind - Archer
Karrin Feywinter - Mistress of Flame
Errin Duskwalker - Executioner
Darquess - Soulbinder
No manner of prediction can dodge Icy Rays. What Kweesa is describing is getting out of the range of Icy Rays when the CW is trying to trigger it. Not actually dodging the attack. For you will get rooted AND damaged, everytime. As long as you're targetable, You ARE getting hit with it. Guaranteed.
- HR: use Marauders Escape as they fire. Needs practice, anticipation, skill, won't work all time. It's not a Dodge, it's a "stealth". Negates both CC and Dmg components.
- HR: use Disruptive immediately while plinked/rooted. Try to prone with Boar if possible afterwards too.
- HR: use Fox Shift on any target that is close enough
- TR: Stealth as they fire. The window of opportunity here is a bit larger. Negates both CC and Dmg components.
- GWF: go unstoppable. Threatening Rush. FLS then Takedown the CW if close enough to break their combo. L2BE Sprinty, stop facetanking everything.
- GF: TR/Lunge. Probably other stuff working too? Villain's Menace. Shield up... obviously. GF>IR at this time.
- SW: sprint out of range might work. Sprint anticipating the opening with IR form a CW.
- ALL CLASSES: try to outrange the second plink/root/dmg. Do your very best to do it. LoS the CW, get out of range. This will put IR on their very long 13 secs or so cooldown.
Devoted Cleric. This class is the ONLY. ONLY... that needs a CC immune/escape vs stuff such as Icy Rays. Annointed Army (I think) works but very few DCs use it, and it's a daily. Exaltation when caught on IR is great to have and almost all good DCs mastered its timing. A CC immune on Exaltation should be just fine.
Says it all, really.
It's a no skill move and a ridiculous mechanic. However it's one of the few things they have going for them and can easily be useless with a few tweaks in pvp. And of course there are ridiculous mechanics and balance for lots of other classes. But in an ideal balanced game, it'd be dodgeable.
No, there is no confusion. If a person casts Icy Rays on you in the middle of your dodge, you still get rooted. Period. It is not dodgeable.
Exactly, and yet.. It happens all the time. This simply does not happen with Icy Rays, despite the cast time being the same, simply because Icy Rays is not dodge able.
Pretty much full explanation of what to do with "extremely skillful but doge able IR". Problem is that if you you play next to game server 0.4 sec is enough to perfect some skill.But if you play somewhere in city or further - 400 ms is your latency window. For those who think that does not matter - look at all stock markets fighting for 3 ms extra time. That is why people say it can or can not be dodged at all.
So it maybe doge able by design, but it has nothing to do with skill. Well this is not the first time designers of game don't know a clue about how game works live. Sure - go use some cheats on top secret server to test it rather then fix Glypthes.
Good. Icy Rays should not be changed. Its good as it is.
This is wrong. If you use Marauders Escape at just the right time, you will rush backwards, but you will still be CC'd when the animation comes to a stop. Same thing if a GF or a GWF lands a stun on you when you try to Escape. You still get CC'd at the Escape animation comes to an end.
Once being rooted, Marauders Rush/Escape is no longer usable. You can however escape Icy Rays as a HR using Boar Charge or Fox Shift, IF, and only IF, there is an enemy who is within range to allow you to jump free from the Root of Icy rays. If the CW is the only one there, and he keeps his distance, there is no way to dodge or escape from Icy Rays. Please get your facts straight.
If you have the AP, If it is not on CD. And this is one class we are talking about, on how to deal with an UNDODGEABLE Attack. Ridiculous. Also, they can dodge disruptive shot and not get stunned or take damage at all.
Again, IF there is a target close by in range. If not? There is still no way to dodge Icy Rays which is the point people are making.
Actually no. You can get rooted as you stealth and you receive both the CC and Damage. This has happened countless times on my TR.
Everyone already knows that the GWF is auto immune with Shift tapping. That still doesn't justify an undodgeable attack for CW's when everyone is crying for Undodgeable attacks to be removed. Especially when there is so many classes that simply can not counter this. HR can only counter situationally, IF there is someone in range to allow the HR to escape from the root. DC can't do anything about it. Whisperknife TR can't do anything about it. There is no reason for Icy Rays to be undodgeable. CW's are already cheesy easy mode 1 button smash as it is. They should require timing like all other classes.
OR, you could just make the Icy Rays dodgeable so that newb CW's learn how to time their spells rather than just spamming encounters.
No, as I showed above, you are wrong.
There is no reason to have Icy Rays undodgeable. The only ones crying for it to remain are the no skill CW's who are happy with their one button smashing, encounter spamming, easy mode they have received in Mod 4.
No, people say it can not be dodged because it can't be dodged. Disruptive shot has just as fast if not faster cast time, and yet.. It is dodged ALL the time. Icy Rays is simply undodgeable. Sad thing is, we have System Designers who don't even know wtf is up with their own game they are supposed to be working on.. and on top of that.. we have newb CW's who know better, but will lie and say anything, to keep their class from being balanced because they have no timing whatsoever, and enjoy the undodgable Icy Rays.
Actually, I have tested Marauders. I have also tested Stealth (in M3 though), specifically for this purpose - Icy Rays. Stealthing it WORKS. But you have to be far enough for the CW to NOT see you.
Lost target=no damage/CC Icy Rays.
Anyway, you want to make Icy Rays dodgeable.
I gave this example before, take a very close look at it:
- Before Shield changes, GF vs CW was a balanced fight
- Shield changes, GF now able to resist Chill stacks and Icy Rays root with their "dodge" move, i.e. Shield.
Result?
GF vs CW is a 99.9% win for the GF.
So no. You don't get to take Icy Rays from the CWs. They fully depend in PvP on it.
BTW, I play both HR and CW, for clarification reasons. I am very attached to each class.
So your reasoning is that, since another broken OP class (The reflect, perma Daily, Glyph GF), can beat a broken OP CW, then no changes should be made.. Despite the fact that other classes can't counter this undodgeable, no skill encounter.
You are an idiot.
Learn some timing. Make Icy Rays dodgeable. Fix the glyphs. Fix the perma daily reflect GF's, etc. You don't leave 1 class broken simply because another broken class is able to deal with it.
As for your testing, I suggest you go try again now that we are in Mod 4, not mod 3. It is not dodgeable and the Marauders escape/rush works (or doesn't work rather) as I described
Personal attacks make one look lazy and destroys your credibility
GF doesn't need to be permadaily Red glyph KV GF.
Classical Lunge/FLS/Bull Charge or throw Anvil somewhere will do just fine.
0 chances for the CW.
Why?
Because they lost Icy Rays, on which they depend.
Ice rays shall stay for CW. They just need to fix dodge to be reliable rather then 0.4s window where you get rooted in midle of dodge. That is obvious defect. Like apply piercing 40% damage to original roll of encounter rather then to migitated value. And not fixing CW Ice Rays dodge - that effect only HR - cause of GWF are overpowered by your oppinion agains CW and you can not kill them - is <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> logic. This is exactly CW crybaby behavior.
If you know HR history well - you know how much nerfs HRs got that we depended on before. Like constructive arrow- that was major antiCW power we had before. All in favor of OP CWs
I was talking about GF and Shield, but GWF with their permaImmunity Sprint/Unstoppable is a good example as well.
HR still has the advantage over CWs, especially on a node - even with the nerfs, and even without Constrictive. If the area it's larger and CW can kite, there is actually balance at equal gear&skill between these classes.
The real issue for HR and Icy Rays comes from the fact that if a CW can IR you, his teammates will probably kill you while you are rooted.
But then again: should you be able to 1vs2?
PS:
- in Mod 3, my HR was GODMODE vs CWs, primarily due to Constrictive/Disruptive permaCC. That was not fair. I could kill the best BiS CWs in the game without losing much, if any HP. Things are better now, balance wise.
- Icy rays is even a bigger issue for guess what class? Control Wizard. Yes, we cannot escape it, and we die a lot because of it as well, as we are not tanky, and not have nice LS and WM heals. So any CW can understand your predicament.
Just because a CW 'needs' a certain broken, defective, or plain unfair result hardly justifies its existence.
TRs used to lay down the exact same argument with Shocking Execution, before the nerf. It does too much damage. It ignores mitigation. It's undodgeable, and in most cases it's an "I-win" button. And what did the TRs argue then? It's needed. It's the only power that can really deal damage during the days where GWFs were gods-on-earth.
So did the HRs, when people mentioned how bullshi* the Constricting Arrow and Grasping Roots mechanic was. CA went through immunites, Grasping Roots ignored both immunities AND dodge. HRs argued how important that OP, broken, bugged mechanic was.
In a sense, it's not difficult to imagine how much CWs depend on Icy Rays. Since it's so powerful as to be considered "undodgeable" to most, ofcourse it's one of the most effective powers. MOST BROKEN POWERS ARE.
What the game, and the players, need is principle, and then build balance around it, not the other way around. If Icy Rays is such a big problem, then it needs a fix on the lines that respects the basic attack-defend mechanism of the gameplay. If the loss of Icy Rays (it's not even a 'loss'. It's simply a fix that requires the CWs to time it better, as anyone should with their powers, for crying out loud) results in a dramatic shift or something, then other compensations are devised. That's how you balance stuff, not by advocating a broken thing.
If you know something to be broken, stop using it.
Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
The only way that it can "avoid" Icy Rays is by putting you out of range of the CW. If the CW casts Icy Rays on you, you will be rooted. Period. You are wrong. I have pulled it off where I start my escape animation and then am rooted at the end of the animation. This also can happen with a GWF or Gf stun when using escape.
Sure, it takes guess work.. but it happens all the time. It is a dodgeable skill, even though the cast time is just as fast as Icy Rays if not faster. Yet, Icy rays is unable to be dodged. My point exactly.
Thank you for at least admitting that it isn't Dodgeable. GG.
Not if the CW had some actual skill and Timed his encounters like every other class has to.
This shows how little you even know about HR's or the game itself. The CW's dodge immunity frame for the 3 shifts they have is actually longer than the immunity time that a HR gets from his 6 dodges. The Immunity for a dodge on a CW, TR, DC starts from the moment you hit shift, to about 1 second after you come to a stop. The HR immunity time for the mini shifts is a fraction of that.
High end Red Glyph CW's have no problem 1 rotationing most ppl. Especially with the No skill, Undodgeable Icy Rays.
Good call, lets bring back some skill and timing back to the CW class and get rid of undodgable bull **** like Icy Rays.
Yeah.. 1 button smashing, encounter spamming, undodgeable CC.. It's <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> mode easy.
CW's were never, roflstomp, even in module 3, unless you had no skill. High end CW's are not at any disadvantage vs "most classes" at this time, unless again, they have no skill whatsoever.
At least people are being honest now about Icy Rays not being dodgeable.
I tested HR vs CW in M4. I only played TR in M3, but I doubt any changes occurred.
Mara still works, but it's not reliable. I am just trying to tell you it works.
I once suggested that Marauders would make the HR able to escape Root in the Preview forums.
Was ignored.
I have a TR and I know for a fact, that if they begin casting Icy Rays and you stealth, You will get rooted and take the damage, albeit still stealthed. Your stealth meter takes a huge hit though, and you are visible again within seconds when this happens.
As for HR Marauders Escape, you are wrong. If you cast Marauders Escape at the same exact time they cast Icy Rays, you will still go through with the escape, but you will take the damage and still be rooted at the end of the animation. It has happened to me countless times. The same thing happens when you get stunned by a GF or GWF at the same exact time you use your Escape. You will be CC'd at the end of the Marauders Escape animation.
If you are already rooted by Icy Rays, Marauders Escape/rush, is completely unusable. Period. The only way to then escape, is to hope that the CW is a <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> and comes within close melee range to allow for you to boar charge or Fox shift out of the roots.. Otherwise you are stuck. And this is just one class we are talking about. There is no solution at all for the DC or the whisperknife TR.
The idea of having a undodgeable CC attack is <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> in the first place, which is why people made this thread. To have that stupid <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> removed. Icy Rays should not be undodgeable.. and yet it is. No matter when it is casted upon you. Whether you are in the middle of a Dodge when it is casted or what, you get rooted no matter what. It needs to be fixed. No more no skill undodgeable bs.
first - my typo - GF not GWF. But like you sad GWF is good example too.
well this is exactly the issue Im talking about. Make Ice Rays dodgable not by 'super skill of being next to server' is right. For both CW and HR.Make it reliably dodgable. Cause as you can see only this 2 don't really have any reliable way of getting out of it. Also DC? What they have?
Even thought dodge is now more responsive then in mod 3 we still face issues with latency lags and "0.4 sec enough time by game design". Can not pick what is actually worse of those.
And no I don't think that HR should be 1vs 2 kings. But having perma CC from CW pretty much makes HR dead meat to anyone else. Without a possible chance of working this out. As CW you can see this too -perma freeze you - you are done.
Plus lets not neglect all damage powers CW have among ice rays. CW can single target HR.And saying that HRs are 1vs 1 kings is wrong this days.
HR were nod holders in mod 3. Now we are pushed into one single fkn way of playing. Period.No variations allowed. Adding undogable that is supposed to dodgable is like making CW mod 4 kings instead of mod 2/3 GWFs
Mod 12.5 PvP Power/Crit/Arp Optimization
Youtube channel (PvE/PvP)
That is because it simply isn't dodgeable, as other CW's have already begun to admit. Disruptive shot has just as fast, if not faster cast time, and yet it can be dodged if you do not time it right, or the enemy gets lucky on his dodge timing. Regardless, Disruptive shot gets dodged all the time. If Icy Rays were dodgeable, you would see the same amount of luck dodges taking place as you see with disruptive shot, except you don't. Instead what you see, is a CW casting Icy Rays on someone mid way through a dodge, and the person who should have dodged the Icy Rays, still being rooted and taking full damage. They need to do away with the no skill, undodgeable bs.. the same way you can't dodge the PB effect, even if you dodge the encounter damage from an HR. Fix the undodgeable bs on all classes.