Cryptic listens to the feedback of the community and offers the race at a lower price plus the option to buy a race reroll token bundled with it...and people complain. It gives the impression that, were Cryptic to provide every player with a million dollars no strings attached, people would complain because it wasn't in small bills.
It's the weight of feedback that is the point of the issue here. Yes, the initial plans may have been to make the item exclusive, and for what it's worth, they may have well intended to stick to it. You can't, though, ignore the potential of money being thrown away by not listening to the feedback. Now, that doesn't mean that every idea people come up with will ever be implemented or changed. But among the storm of "bawww, Cryptic doesn't listen to us!!", in this one instance they do, and get flamed for it anyway.
I mean, yea, people are going to complain about "why wasn't this offered to begin with" but in all honesty...that's how business rolls. Look at a load of other companies that initially sold things differently (does anyone remember when the Xbox 360 DIDN'T have a wireless adapter built in and you had to spend a hundred bucks to get one...and then it came out with wireless included for much the same price?).
ROLL TIDE ROLL
Great Weapon Fighter: Because when is today not a good day to die?
PC and PS4 player. Proud Guildmaster for PS4 Team Fencebane. Rank 5 Officer for PC Team Fencebane. Visit us at http://fencebane.shivtr.com
Cryptic listens to the feedback of the community and offers the race at a lower price plus the option to buy a race reroll token bundled with it...and people complain.
I mean, yea, people are going to complain about "why wasn't this offered to begin with" but in all honesty...that's how business rolls. Look at a load of other companies that initially sold things differently (does anyone remember when the Xbox 360 DIDN'T have a wireless adapter built in and you had to spend a hundred bucks to get one...and then it came out with wireless included for much the same price?).
Well I would stop complaining if I get my 7500 zen back so I can buy the pack for 2500 instead. Do you really dont get WHY people are mad or are you just not willing to see it because you are a mod?
"It's the weight of feedback that is the point of the issue here. Yes, the initial plans may have been to make the item exclusive, and for what it's worth, they may have well intended to stick to it. You can't, though, ignore the potential of money being thrown away by not listening to the feedback."
HAHA Okay. In that scenario they should give the ones who bought the the first pack something worth the ZEN more than a bag. Because now we KNOW what the race is worth and that means I paid 5000 zen for a bag and some other useless items I would never even use.
You basically just said that its okey for the company to screw a few buys over if they can make even more money on it.
But...Anyone have buyed it? Becouse i'm not sure that this give you the race but ONLY the change race...And spend 2500 zen for every character that you want i don't think that is a good thing...
| Yolt - TR MI Executioner |
< Guild: Gravity X Game >
If by delivered you mean they lied about the "limited time sale" and lied about the "exclusivity" then yes they certainly delivered.
Not sure I consider $25 for a race value though. But that can be said for the whole store.
Truism of business #1: Marketing plans are ALWAYS subject to change at a moments' notice. "Exclusivity" is usually a marketing gimmick for "purchased at a premium".
ROLL TIDE ROLL
Great Weapon Fighter: Because when is today not a good day to die?
PC and PS4 player. Proud Guildmaster for PS4 Team Fencebane. Rank 5 Officer for PC Team Fencebane. Visit us at http://fencebane.shivtr.com
Was this really suppose to have been in the pack? Haven't looked properly what it should have contained.
But if that's true then i didn't get it either! Yet another reason to feel annoyed then i guess.
Well I would stop complaining if I get my 7500 zen back so I can buy the pack for 2500 instead. Do you really dont get WHY people are mad or are you just not willing to see it because you are a mod?
"It's the weight of feedback that is the point of the issue here. Yes, the initial plans may have been to make the item exclusive, and for what it's worth, they may have well intended to stick to it. You can't, though, ignore the potential of money being thrown away by not listening to the feedback."
HAHA Okay. In that scenario they should give the ones who bought the the first pack something worth the ZEN more than a bag. Because now we KNOW what the race is worth and that means I paid 5000 zen for a bag and some other useless items.
It doesn't matter. You paid 7500 ZEN for the pack and got everything that was announced, thus shouldn't be entitled to a refund. Common sense.
FYI: An accountwide bag of 30 slots...let's consider for a moment that a bag of that size isn't even available in the ZEN shop. Not to mention that at 1k ZEN per character...unless you're playing the bare minimum of two characters...1500 ZEN for the race change token, plus...let's eyeball the value of the bag at 1200 ZEN for arguments' sake...even with the minimum two characters, that's a value of 3900 ZEN just for those two items alone, and the value would increase proportional to the number of characters you have. In fact, many of the players who did buy the pack bought it for not just the ability to play as Dragonborn, but also the bag as it gave a free 30 spaces of inventory to any characters they had, now and in the future. Not really a shabby deal there.
It isn't Cryptic's fault that you place no value on the other items and all the value on the race itself. Subjective value isn't something Cryptic can define for each player. In the end, that's the bottom line: subjective value. Some people couldn't be bothered to wait for a better deal and thus succumbed to the "gotta have it now" syndrome.
ROLL TIDE ROLL
Great Weapon Fighter: Because when is today not a good day to die?
PC and PS4 player. Proud Guildmaster for PS4 Team Fencebane. Rank 5 Officer for PC Team Fencebane. Visit us at http://fencebane.shivtr.com
Truism of business #1: Marketing plans are ALWAYS subject to change at a moments' notice. "Exclusivity" is usually a marketing gimmick for "purchased at a premium".
Of course, but you don't make promises you don't keep. You open up the possibility without misleading people. They way you market your product is crucial and over here, lets just say it isn't the best marketing I've seen and am not exactly 100% happy with. You also reward those who bought into an offer in good faith instead of pretending they're rewarded when they're not.
Was this really suppose to have been in the pack? Haven't looked properly what it should have contained.
But if that's true then i didn't get it either! Yet another reason to feel annoyed then i guess.
I got it, not sure if it was standalone or in another pack or what but it was somewhere from the rewards claim agent. Possibly from the 1 time claim pack.
It doesn't matter. You paid 7500 ZEN for the pack and got everything that was announced, thus shouldn't be entitled to a refund. Common sense.
It isn't Cryptic's fault that you place no value on the other items and all the value on the race itself. Subjective value isn't something Cryptic can define for each player. In the end, that's the bottom line: subjective value. Some people couldn't be bothered to wait for a better deal and thus succumbed to the "gotta have it now" syndrome.
I didn't wait for a better deal because I didn't think there would be one. And as I said, I felt like I was forced to buy the race for 7500 because there wasn't a standalone.
It's the weight of feedback that is the point of the issue here. Yes, the initial plans may have been to make the item exclusive, and for what it's worth, they may have well intended to stick to it. You can't, though, ignore the potential of money being thrown away by not listening to the feedback. Now, that doesn't mean that every idea people come up with will ever be implemented or changed. But among the storm of "bawww, Cryptic doesn't listen to us!!", in this one instance they do, and get flamed for it anyway.
You basically just said that its okay for the company to screw a few buys over if they can make even more money on it.
I didn't wait for a better deal because I didn't think there would be one. And as I said, I felt like I was forced to buy the race for 7500 because there wasn't a standalone.
You basically just said that its okay for the company to screw a few buys over if they can make even more money on it.
No, I didn't. Again, it all came down to player feedback. It's not a sin for a business to offer something as a standalone package because the players ask for it even if it wasn't part of the original plan to begin with. Plans change. In the business world, that's as true a fact as any.
ROLL TIDE ROLL
Great Weapon Fighter: Because when is today not a good day to die?
PC and PS4 player. Proud Guildmaster for PS4 Team Fencebane. Rank 5 Officer for PC Team Fencebane. Visit us at http://fencebane.shivtr.com
Very well put, couldn't agree more. And after speaking to people in-game there's more players who feel they have been fooled by this. I myself wont spend much more cash into PWE if all of this is true and it stays like this. In that case I'd want my money back aswell to put it in the 1 token instead. Are they really THAT desperate for money, rather than building some solid PR and doing what's right?
Well I would stop complaining if I get my 7500 zen back so I can buy the pack for 2500 instead. Do you really dont get WHY people are mad or are you just not willing to see it because you are a mod?
You basically just said that its okey for the company to screw a few buys over if they can make even more money on it.
Neverwinter addict since open-BETA! What's your drug? Spoon? There is no spoon.
Old member of Team Fencebane (R.I.P)
- One of the 5 core founders.
Very well put, couldn't agree more. And after speaking to people in-game there's more players who feel they have been fooled by this. I myself wont spend much more cash into PWE if all of this is true and it stays like this. In that case I'd want my money back aswell to put it in the 1 token instead. Are they really THAT desperate for money, rather than building some solid PR and doing what's right?
From where I'm standing it looks more like a case of the "special snowflake" argument rather than being "fooled". Again, a business has the prerogative to market items as they deem fit. Doesn't mean that every business gets it right every single time. But, it is what it is. Bottom line is that this was the creation born of player feedback and this is what Cryptic chose to do with it, as is their right.
No, it probably wasn't part of the original plan. But it just as well may be an issue of the demand for a particular aspect of the pack was sufficient that Cryptic decided to make it a standalone package. That doesn't mean they don't have the right to sell a premium pack that includes the same thing if they so desire.
ROLL TIDE ROLL
Great Weapon Fighter: Because when is today not a good day to die?
PC and PS4 player. Proud Guildmaster for PS4 Team Fencebane. Rank 5 Officer for PC Team Fencebane. Visit us at http://fencebane.shivtr.com
It doesn't matter. You paid 7500 ZEN for the pack and got everything that was announced, thus shouldn't be entitled to a refund. Common sense.
It isn't Cryptic's fault that you place no value on the other items and all the value on the race itself. Subjective value isn't something Cryptic can define for each player. In the end, that's the bottom line: subjective value. Some people couldn't be bothered to wait for a better deal and thus succumbed to the "gotta have it now" syndrome.
That a very good point you have there!
I dont know why anyone would buy a pack that they consider is full of useless items except for maybe 1 or 2 items.
I would advice these buyers that are complaining to suck it up, and learn from their mistakes, it not Cryptic faults that you consider the items you bought useless, you should have known what you were purchasing before you did.
NEXT TIME DONT BUY SOMETHING YOU DONT THINK IS WORTH IT, AND NEVER BUY A PACK BECAUSE OF ONE EXCLUSIVE ITEM.
From where I'm standing it looks more like a case of the "special snowflake" argument rather than being "fooled". Again, a business has the prerogative to market items as they deem fit. Doesn't mean that every business gets it right every single time. But, it is what it is. Bottom line is that this was the creation born of player feedback and this is what Cryptic chose to do with it, as is their right.
I agree with you 100%!
Some people are just going to be mad because they feel ripped-off. It won't matter what you write to attempt to change their feelings. All that will happen is that a length thread will be produced full of missed points . . .
myles08807 said, "Back in my day, we didn't have any of this fancy Mulhorand gear while we were leveling . . . we walked uphill both ways while dying once every five seconds while leveling, and we liked it fine!" . . . Now, get off my lawn, you kids!" pointsman said, "I don't rue the game. In fact I don't feel any regret for the game at all." looomis said, "I don't like people changing to alts and then bragging about their mains like schizophrenic role players."
No, I didn't. Again, it all came down to player feedback. It's not a sin for a business to offer something as a standalone package because the players ask for it even if it wasn't part of the original plan to begin with. Plans change. In the business world, that's as true a fact as any.
Another game I used to play offered limited time skins that were never to be bought again that people bought for the promised exclusivity. The company got bought out and eventually they decided to relist it. To compensate for that they gave a full refund to the ones who bought the skin and yet they still managed to keep the skin. I'm not saying that buyers of the previous pack should get all of their money/zen refunded. It's just that when you break a promise and people no longer got what they bought in for, you make it up to them. Otherwise you lose the trust of the people supporting the company.
Another game I used to play offered limited time skins that were never to be bought again that people bought for the promised exclusivity. The company got bought out and eventually they decided to relist it. To compensate for that they gave a full refund to the ones who bought the skin and yet they still managed to keep the skin. I'm not saying that buyers of the previous pack should get all of their money/zen refunded. It's just that when you break a promise and people no longer got what they bought in for, you make it up to them. Otherwise you lose the trust of the people supporting the company.
Good point - Cryptic did announce the pack with a lot of hoopla about exclusivity. Seems like they should give some kind of compensation to those that purchased the "exclusive" pack, since the original communication was a bit misleading.
myles08807 said, "Back in my day, we didn't have any of this fancy Mulhorand gear while we were leveling . . . we walked uphill both ways while dying once every five seconds while leveling, and we liked it fine!" . . . Now, get off my lawn, you kids!" pointsman said, "I don't rue the game. In fact I don't feel any regret for the game at all." looomis said, "I don't like people changing to alts and then bragging about their mains like schizophrenic role players."
0
beckylunaticMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 14,231Arc User
It's like this: If you feel the pack is full of "useless" items except one or two, then you set the value of the item you feel useful at the selling price of the entire pack. Then you have to determine if that price is worth the one or two items you feel is "useful" Otherwise, for the sake of objectivity, you have to include the fair market value of the other items in the bag...and those items, in aggregate, would have justified the cost of a premium pack. I will stress again: this pack was offered at a premium. Think of it as a "platinum" tier offer.
Then the lower tier package comes along, as does happen many times in the world of business, because there is sufficient demand for it and the platinum tier really isn't selling all that well because the people want the race and feel that 75 dollars is too steep to pay for the pack to get it and isn't justified by the other items in the bag. Okay, Cryptic gets that....so they say "okay, let's just do the race and the token in a single package deal since the feedback and the sales figures for the DB pack say that's what's in the higher demand".
And people complain anyway because those that bought the pack paid the full premium price for what's being offered now in the lower tier package--even though they got a lot more with their premium purchase than just the token.
It's like buying a box of cereal just for the toy inside and then complaining because the company decides later to sell the toys a la carte.
ROLL TIDE ROLL
Great Weapon Fighter: Because when is today not a good day to die?
PC and PS4 player. Proud Guildmaster for PS4 Team Fencebane. Rank 5 Officer for PC Team Fencebane. Visit us at http://fencebane.shivtr.com
Good point - Cryptic did announce the pack with a lot of hoopla about exclusivity. Seems like they should give some kind of compensation to those that purchased the "exclusive" pack, since the original communication was a bit misleading.
It also stands to reason that "exclusive" was the original plan. However, the sales figures for the DB pack may not have been what the marketing team had hoped for, and feedback plus sales figures suggested that the race alone was in a greater demand that offering it as part of a larger pack would not sufficiently compensate for.
I may also wish to point out that "exclusive" is not synonymous with "never to be sold again" It simply means that at the time of the sale this is the only means by which to gain said item. Think about items you see on TV that are advertised as "not available in stores" and a month or two later you see them on sale at Wal-Mart or CVS.
ROLL TIDE ROLL
Great Weapon Fighter: Because when is today not a good day to die?
PC and PS4 player. Proud Guildmaster for PS4 Team Fencebane. Rank 5 Officer for PC Team Fencebane. Visit us at http://fencebane.shivtr.com
0
beckylunaticMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 14,231Arc User
edited September 2014
There were interviews during the time the Dragonborn pack was initially for sale where the question was asked whether the race would be for sale separately later, and the answer was not given as "no" but more as "no comment", which actually means, "yes, but not until after we sell a lot of the first thing". Sorry, but that's business.
Yeah, they wanted as many people to buy in at $75 as possible. And I do agree that making the initial price point look like a sale but then be the final price, while it's positive for people buying later, is unfortunate for people who acted immediately and who might have otherwise preferred to wait and see if a cheaper standalone option came available, as it has. I didn't object to the permanent price reduction or putting it in the Zen shop post-launch on a personal level, but I understand the point of people who did, because they'd have chosen to wait, while I'd have still taken the approach I did in the first place.
But I also think that if you valued all of the pack at nothing and only wanted the race, you should have paid more attention to the undertones and waited.
I think both are good as they are. The 75 dollars pack is perhaps a bit pricey still and 25 dollars is still much for just one race (I prefer do no more than one character per race anyways), as it is price of some whole games, but I guess if someone is willing to pay for it, it is rightly priced.
Anyways I presonally think it is stupid to cry for cheaper option. The people in hurry bought the 75 dollar pack, even when everybody was yelling behind the corner that cheaper, maybe free version will probably eventually pop up.
Give us 4 or more power/item bar profiles so we can change powers and items with one click that are suited for the situation.
It's like this: If you feel the pack is full of "useless" items except one or two, then you set the value of the item you feel useful at the selling price of the entire pack. Then you have to determine if that price is worth the one or two items you feel is "useful" Otherwise, for the sake of objectivity, you have to include the fair market value of the other items in the bag...and those items, in aggregate, would have justified the cost of a premium pack. I will stress again: this pack was offered at a premium. Think of it as a "platinum" tier offer.
Then the lower tier package comes along, as does happen many times in the world of business, because there is sufficient demand for it and the platinum tier really isn't selling all that well because the people want the race and feel that 75 dollars is too steep to pay for the pack to get it and isn't justified by the other items in the bag. Okay, Cryptic gets that....so they say "okay, let's just do the race and the token in a single package deal since the feedback and the sales figures for the DB pack say that's what's in the higher demand".
And people complain anyway because those that bought the pack paid the full premium price for what's being offered now in the lower tier package--even though they got a lot more with their premium purchase than just the token.
It's like buying a box of cereal just for the toy inside and then complaining because the company decides later to sell the toys a la carte.
The ones who complained about wanting a race by itself are the ones who didn't buy the pack but wanted only the race. The ones complaining about the release of this pack are annoyed that they bought which was widely assumed to ever be the only way to get the race. On the otherhand, I can't quite remember but when the drow were in the hotn pack, it was acknowledged that a free version would be coming so the buyers got what they were buying. However they purposefully were tight lipped and led us to assume completely exclusivity.
It's just different sets of people giving their feedback. Just like when making balance changes people may complain about a class/character being OP. They are more likely to be the ones playing against said class. Then when nerfs hid, although it's possible to overdo changes another set of people may complain that said class is useless. Those are more likely to be the ones who played the class.
Personally what I wanted was the 25% offer for preordering, but I guess you'd still have the ones that bought the pack after the preorder.
There were interviews during the time the Dragonborn pack was initially for sale where the question was asked whether the race would be for sale separately later, and the answer was not given as "no" but more as "no comment", which actually means, "yes, but not until after we sell a lot of the first thing". Sorry, but that's business.
A good marketting comment would to comment as if it's a possibility but one that they don't say WILL happen. When people asked about race/gender changes (iirc) they mentioned it was a possibility but not something they can promise. I didn't personally see that opening and saw it more closed.
Um...no, you're not paying 75 dollars for just the Dragonborn race. You're paying 75 dollars for an accountwide bag, a fashion set, several dragon glyphs, and other items.
There were interviews during the time the Dragonborn pack was initially for sale where the question was asked whether the race would be for sale separately later, and the answer was not given as "no" but more as "no comment", which actually means, "yes, but not until after we sell a lot of the first thing". Sorry, but that's business.
Yeah, they wanted as many people to buy in at $75 as possible. And I do agree that making the initial price point look like a sale but then be the final price, while it's positive for people buying later, is unfortunate for people who acted immediately and who might have otherwise preferred to wait and see if a cheaper standalone option came available, as it has. I didn't object to the permanent price reduction or putting it in the Zen shop post-launch on a personal level, but I understand the point of people who did, because they'd have chosen to wait, while I'd have still taken the approach I did in the first place.
But I also think that if you valued all of the pack at nothing and only wanted the race, you should have paid more attention to the undertones and waited.
The answer I recall was actually more along the lines of "There aren't any plans to do so at this time, but if there's enough demand for it we may do so later."
I may also wish to point out that "exclusive" is not synonymous with "never to be sold again" It simply means that at the time of the sale this is the only means by which to gain said item. Think about items you see on TV that are advertised as "not available in stores" and a month or two later you see them on sale at Wal-Mart or CVS.
As a gaming company I think it's more important to build up trust and your reputation if you're in it for the long haul. Especially when gamers are very passionate about their entertainment and will be vocal when they're not happy.
Vindication is sweet.
I told everyone WAY BACK WHEN that I suspected they'd release a way to get only the race. Okay, so they bundled as race-change token with it.
Now, all you people who said you'd be willing to spend $25 on just the race and not all that "other garbage" - pony-up! LOL
Vindication is sweet.
I told everyone WAY BACK WHEN that I suspected they'd release a way to get only the race. Okay, so they bundled as race-change token with it.
Now, all you people who said you'd be willing to spend $25 on just the race and not all that "other garbage" - pony-up! LOL
^^^^^this.
"Meanwhile in the moderator's lounge..."
0
zebularMember, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 15,270Community Moderator
edited September 2014
I know I was one who complained very loudly and frankly about the Dragonborn Legend Pack's high price. I still bought it, not for the Race... but for everything it came with. I am very happy to see that they listened to the Community, myself included, that complained about the Dragonborn not having a way to buy just the Race. This will allow me to get it on my alt-account much sooner than I would have been able to without buying the large pack.
Besides, it is the nature of business to offer something at a nominal price and then put it on sale later. To complain about that is not a complaint one should make towards any single company but rather a complaint one should make about the way Businesses work all over the World. This should have been expected, for we already see it in action in Neverwinter with past promotions sales and in-game coupons.
So i'm assuming everyone upset by this are currently protesting Apple for making their existing phones less valuable by selling something they already had, just packaged differently.
0
dheffernanMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 216Arc User
Truism of business #1: Marketing plans are ALWAYS subject to change at a moments' notice. "Exclusivity" is usually a marketing gimmick for "purchased at a premium".
So, your defense is that we should have been smart enough to know we were being lied to? Well, if it worked for Lehman Bros. and LIBOR....
I didn't think it was possible for Cryptic to mess this up any more than they already had, but they managed it. First the "discount" vanished and the pack was moved from the cash-only options to the Zen store. Now the "hook" has been separated out. Congratulations, you managed to torque off some of your best customers.
You know those "whales" you F2P sellers are hunting? Cryptic may have just harpooned all of theirs into extinction.
Oh, and...
Vindication is sweet.
I told everyone WAY BACK WHEN that I suspected they'd release a way to get only the race.
Before declaring victory you may want to wait and see what happens the next time they try to offer anything like the Dragonborn Legends pack. Actually they are offering something like it over in STO and more than a few people have said they won't touch it with someone else's hands because of what happened here. I don't think the new development will improve that situation.
@Venture-1@Venture from City of Heroes if you remember that far back. Yes, *that* Venture. Yes, I probably trashed your MA arc. For me it was Tuesday.
Comments
If by delivered you mean they lied about the "limited time sale" and lied about the "exclusivity" then yes they certainly delivered.
Not sure I consider $25 for a race value though. But that can be said for the whole store.
Cryptic listens to the feedback of the community and offers the race at a lower price plus the option to buy a race reroll token bundled with it...and people complain. It gives the impression that, were Cryptic to provide every player with a million dollars no strings attached, people would complain because it wasn't in small bills.
It's the weight of feedback that is the point of the issue here. Yes, the initial plans may have been to make the item exclusive, and for what it's worth, they may have well intended to stick to it. You can't, though, ignore the potential of money being thrown away by not listening to the feedback. Now, that doesn't mean that every idea people come up with will ever be implemented or changed. But among the storm of "bawww, Cryptic doesn't listen to us!!", in this one instance they do, and get flamed for it anyway.
I mean, yea, people are going to complain about "why wasn't this offered to begin with" but in all honesty...that's how business rolls. Look at a load of other companies that initially sold things differently (does anyone remember when the Xbox 360 DIDN'T have a wireless adapter built in and you had to spend a hundred bucks to get one...and then it came out with wireless included for much the same price?).
Great Weapon Fighter: Because when is today not a good day to die?
PC and PS4 player. Proud Guildmaster for PS4 Team Fencebane. Rank 5 Officer for PC Team Fencebane. Visit us at http://fencebane.shivtr.com
Well I would stop complaining if I get my 7500 zen back so I can buy the pack for 2500 instead. Do you really dont get WHY people are mad or are you just not willing to see it because you are a mod?
"It's the weight of feedback that is the point of the issue here. Yes, the initial plans may have been to make the item exclusive, and for what it's worth, they may have well intended to stick to it. You can't, though, ignore the potential of money being thrown away by not listening to the feedback."
HAHA Okay. In that scenario they should give the ones who bought the the first pack something worth the ZEN more than a bag. Because now we KNOW what the race is worth and that means I paid 5000 zen for a bag and some other useless items I would never even use.
You basically just said that its okey for the company to screw a few buys over if they can make even more money on it.
< Guild: Gravity X Game >
Truism of business #1: Marketing plans are ALWAYS subject to change at a moments' notice. "Exclusivity" is usually a marketing gimmick for "purchased at a premium".
Great Weapon Fighter: Because when is today not a good day to die?
PC and PS4 player. Proud Guildmaster for PS4 Team Fencebane. Rank 5 Officer for PC Team Fencebane. Visit us at http://fencebane.shivtr.com
But if that's true then i didn't get it either! Yet another reason to feel annoyed then i guess.
Spoon? There is no spoon.
Old member of Team Fencebane (R.I.P)
- One of the 5 core founders.
It doesn't matter. You paid 7500 ZEN for the pack and got everything that was announced, thus shouldn't be entitled to a refund. Common sense.
FYI: An accountwide bag of 30 slots...let's consider for a moment that a bag of that size isn't even available in the ZEN shop. Not to mention that at 1k ZEN per character...unless you're playing the bare minimum of two characters...1500 ZEN for the race change token, plus...let's eyeball the value of the bag at 1200 ZEN for arguments' sake...even with the minimum two characters, that's a value of 3900 ZEN just for those two items alone, and the value would increase proportional to the number of characters you have. In fact, many of the players who did buy the pack bought it for not just the ability to play as Dragonborn, but also the bag as it gave a free 30 spaces of inventory to any characters they had, now and in the future. Not really a shabby deal there.
It isn't Cryptic's fault that you place no value on the other items and all the value on the race itself. Subjective value isn't something Cryptic can define for each player. In the end, that's the bottom line: subjective value. Some people couldn't be bothered to wait for a better deal and thus succumbed to the "gotta have it now" syndrome.
Great Weapon Fighter: Because when is today not a good day to die?
PC and PS4 player. Proud Guildmaster for PS4 Team Fencebane. Rank 5 Officer for PC Team Fencebane. Visit us at http://fencebane.shivtr.com
Of course, but you don't make promises you don't keep. You open up the possibility without misleading people. They way you market your product is crucial and over here, lets just say it isn't the best marketing I've seen and am not exactly 100% happy with. You also reward those who bought into an offer in good faith instead of pretending they're rewarded when they're not.
I got it, not sure if it was standalone or in another pack or what but it was somewhere from the rewards claim agent. Possibly from the 1 time claim pack.
I didn't wait for a better deal because I didn't think there would be one. And as I said, I felt like I was forced to buy the race for 7500 because there wasn't a standalone.
You basically just said that its okay for the company to screw a few buys over if they can make even more money on it.
No, I didn't. Again, it all came down to player feedback. It's not a sin for a business to offer something as a standalone package because the players ask for it even if it wasn't part of the original plan to begin with. Plans change. In the business world, that's as true a fact as any.
Great Weapon Fighter: Because when is today not a good day to die?
PC and PS4 player. Proud Guildmaster for PS4 Team Fencebane. Rank 5 Officer for PC Team Fencebane. Visit us at http://fencebane.shivtr.com
Spoon? There is no spoon.
Old member of Team Fencebane (R.I.P)
- One of the 5 core founders.
From where I'm standing it looks more like a case of the "special snowflake" argument rather than being "fooled". Again, a business has the prerogative to market items as they deem fit. Doesn't mean that every business gets it right every single time. But, it is what it is. Bottom line is that this was the creation born of player feedback and this is what Cryptic chose to do with it, as is their right.
No, it probably wasn't part of the original plan. But it just as well may be an issue of the demand for a particular aspect of the pack was sufficient that Cryptic decided to make it a standalone package. That doesn't mean they don't have the right to sell a premium pack that includes the same thing if they so desire.
Great Weapon Fighter: Because when is today not a good day to die?
PC and PS4 player. Proud Guildmaster for PS4 Team Fencebane. Rank 5 Officer for PC Team Fencebane. Visit us at http://fencebane.shivtr.com
That a very good point you have there!
I dont know why anyone would buy a pack that they consider is full of useless items except for maybe 1 or 2 items.
I would advice these buyers that are complaining to suck it up, and learn from their mistakes, it not Cryptic faults that you consider the items you bought useless, you should have known what you were purchasing before you did.
NEXT TIME DONT BUY SOMETHING YOU DONT THINK IS WORTH IT, AND NEVER BUY A PACK BECAUSE OF ONE EXCLUSIVE ITEM.
I agree with you 100%!
Some people are just going to be mad because they feel ripped-off. It won't matter what you write to attempt to change their feelings. All that will happen is that a length thread will be produced full of missed points . . .
myles08807 said, "Back in my day, we didn't have any of this fancy Mulhorand gear while we were leveling . . . we walked uphill both ways while dying once every five seconds while leveling, and we liked it fine!" . . . Now, get off my lawn, you kids!"
pointsman said, "I don't rue the game. In fact I don't feel any regret for the game at all."
looomis said, "I don't like people changing to alts and then bragging about their mains like schizophrenic role players."
Another game I used to play offered limited time skins that were never to be bought again that people bought for the promised exclusivity. The company got bought out and eventually they decided to relist it. To compensate for that they gave a full refund to the ones who bought the skin and yet they still managed to keep the skin. I'm not saying that buyers of the previous pack should get all of their money/zen refunded. It's just that when you break a promise and people no longer got what they bought in for, you make it up to them. Otherwise you lose the trust of the people supporting the company.
Good point - Cryptic did announce the pack with a lot of hoopla about exclusivity. Seems like they should give some kind of compensation to those that purchased the "exclusive" pack, since the original communication was a bit misleading.
myles08807 said, "Back in my day, we didn't have any of this fancy Mulhorand gear while we were leveling . . . we walked uphill both ways while dying once every five seconds while leveling, and we liked it fine!" . . . Now, get off my lawn, you kids!"
pointsman said, "I don't rue the game. In fact I don't feel any regret for the game at all."
looomis said, "I don't like people changing to alts and then bragging about their mains like schizophrenic role players."
You did. It's called a Dragon Hoard enchantment. I think all the media was updated to reflect this change, but something might have been overlooked.
Neverwinter Census 2017
All posts pending disapproval by Cecilia
Then the lower tier package comes along, as does happen many times in the world of business, because there is sufficient demand for it and the platinum tier really isn't selling all that well because the people want the race and feel that 75 dollars is too steep to pay for the pack to get it and isn't justified by the other items in the bag. Okay, Cryptic gets that....so they say "okay, let's just do the race and the token in a single package deal since the feedback and the sales figures for the DB pack say that's what's in the higher demand".
And people complain anyway because those that bought the pack paid the full premium price for what's being offered now in the lower tier package--even though they got a lot more with their premium purchase than just the token.
It's like buying a box of cereal just for the toy inside and then complaining because the company decides later to sell the toys a la carte.
Great Weapon Fighter: Because when is today not a good day to die?
PC and PS4 player. Proud Guildmaster for PS4 Team Fencebane. Rank 5 Officer for PC Team Fencebane. Visit us at http://fencebane.shivtr.com
It also stands to reason that "exclusive" was the original plan. However, the sales figures for the DB pack may not have been what the marketing team had hoped for, and feedback plus sales figures suggested that the race alone was in a greater demand that offering it as part of a larger pack would not sufficiently compensate for.
I may also wish to point out that "exclusive" is not synonymous with "never to be sold again" It simply means that at the time of the sale this is the only means by which to gain said item. Think about items you see on TV that are advertised as "not available in stores" and a month or two later you see them on sale at Wal-Mart or CVS.
Great Weapon Fighter: Because when is today not a good day to die?
PC and PS4 player. Proud Guildmaster for PS4 Team Fencebane. Rank 5 Officer for PC Team Fencebane. Visit us at http://fencebane.shivtr.com
Yeah, they wanted as many people to buy in at $75 as possible. And I do agree that making the initial price point look like a sale but then be the final price, while it's positive for people buying later, is unfortunate for people who acted immediately and who might have otherwise preferred to wait and see if a cheaper standalone option came available, as it has. I didn't object to the permanent price reduction or putting it in the Zen shop post-launch on a personal level, but I understand the point of people who did, because they'd have chosen to wait, while I'd have still taken the approach I did in the first place.
But I also think that if you valued all of the pack at nothing and only wanted the race, you should have paid more attention to the undertones and waited.
Neverwinter Census 2017
All posts pending disapproval by Cecilia
Anyways I presonally think it is stupid to cry for cheaper option. The people in hurry bought the 75 dollar pack, even when everybody was yelling behind the corner that cheaper, maybe free version will probably eventually pop up.
The ones who complained about wanting a race by itself are the ones who didn't buy the pack but wanted only the race. The ones complaining about the release of this pack are annoyed that they bought which was widely assumed to ever be the only way to get the race. On the otherhand, I can't quite remember but when the drow were in the hotn pack, it was acknowledged that a free version would be coming so the buyers got what they were buying. However they purposefully were tight lipped and led us to assume completely exclusivity.
It's just different sets of people giving their feedback. Just like when making balance changes people may complain about a class/character being OP. They are more likely to be the ones playing against said class. Then when nerfs hid, although it's possible to overdo changes another set of people may complain that said class is useless. Those are more likely to be the ones who played the class.
Personally what I wanted was the 25% offer for preordering, but I guess you'd still have the ones that bought the pack after the preorder.
A good marketting comment would to comment as if it's a possibility but one that they don't say WILL happen. When people asked about race/gender changes (iirc) they mentioned it was a possibility but not something they can promise. I didn't personally see that opening and saw it more closed.
Weren't there two fashion sets? $75 is a good chunk of change but for what was in there it was worth it.
The answer I recall was actually more along the lines of "There aren't any plans to do so at this time, but if there's enough demand for it we may do so later."
As a gaming company I think it's more important to build up trust and your reputation if you're in it for the long haul. Especially when gamers are very passionate about their entertainment and will be vocal when they're not happy.
I told everyone WAY BACK WHEN that I suspected they'd release a way to get only the race. Okay, so they bundled as race-change token with it.
Now, all you people who said you'd be willing to spend $25 on just the race and not all that "other garbage" - pony-up! LOL
^^^^^this.
Besides, it is the nature of business to offer something at a nominal price and then put it on sale later. To complain about that is not a complaint one should make towards any single company but rather a complaint one should make about the way Businesses work all over the World. This should have been expected, for we already see it in action in Neverwinter with past promotions sales and in-game coupons.
[ Support Center • Rules & Policies and Guidelines • ARC ToS • Guild Recruitment Guidelines | FR DM Since 1993 ]
So, your defense is that we should have been smart enough to know we were being lied to? Well, if it worked for Lehman Bros. and LIBOR....
I didn't think it was possible for Cryptic to mess this up any more than they already had, but they managed it. First the "discount" vanished and the pack was moved from the cash-only options to the Zen store. Now the "hook" has been separated out. Congratulations, you managed to torque off some of your best customers.
You know those "whales" you F2P sellers are hunting? Cryptic may have just harpooned all of theirs into extinction.
Oh, and...
Before declaring victory you may want to wait and see what happens the next time they try to offer anything like the Dragonborn Legends pack. Actually they are offering something like it over in STO and more than a few people have said they won't touch it with someone else's hands because of what happened here. I don't think the new development will improve that situation.