1. How exactly do you measure "performance"?
2. Why should a 18k GS player get better loot than a 12k player? Do you understand how absurd that idea is? Do you understand it will further increase the gap between the established/paid players and the newer, less established players?
Agreed! I also believe that those who complain about the lack of end game are the same people who play a lot. Thus they will finish said content and master it. Get the loot and then complain about the lack of end game content.
Blowing through content with guilds etc and playing more than 2 hours a day guarantees that you will be bored in a game like neverwinter in a short period of time.
That is why PWE gates content and this blows for everyone. RNG is also based on the number of people running the content. You cannot have 50 belts drop every hour. They are supposed to be rare. If people didn't camp Dragon's there would be better odds. Try iwd now. Drop rates appear to be better.
I do think that you guys are worried with the end game content of the game, and its true, for someone whos here for a long time with maxed gear and everything else all thats being offered is easy and boring, but i do believe, and i was here at beta time, stopped playing and came back several times, that a gap is being created with the continuous expansions, gear score decreases and to get gear, or good enough gear, for a player that starts today is getting too **** hard with no implements on the ladder of getting gear of the game....
At beta time we had enough for gear, PVP 1st set was easy, then we worked for grim coins set, then we could be prepared for dungeons, T2 set gear, nowdays with a T1 set party any epic dungeon can be a headeach, too long, too hard, and these days grim coin gear is **** hard to get, not that this gear is good enough but, the prtys are more and more players with gear scores already at good positions, excluding everyone else from it, the game is being directed more and more for cash shop players or casual cash shop players....
To be honest i stay in the game because the playing mechanics that is awesome, the constant events wich is great seing that from a developer, and well thinked lvling, boon ladder, but everything else is becoming unbalanced, PVP and PVE with the crescent adds to the game....
For example, i had a max lvld GF from beta, the gear he wears at that time was 14k GS and it was a good score, i was invited for everything i could do everything with more or less difficulty, now the same gear is no more than 10k GS and its a crippled character he cant do nothing, i started another character that already have better GS than he have but he still stucked on that gap betwen T1 gear and T2 gear that became huge over time......
Casual players don't read forums much, so they're under represented in this thread. This game was designed from the ground up as a casual player experience-hence no raid content.
If you want harder content, just join queues and PUG it instead of specifying you want 15k and higher GS.
Venril Sathir- CW
Venril- SW
Lurch- GF
Mini Ven- DC
I do think that you guys are worried with the end game content of the game, and its true, for someone whos here for a long time with maxed gear and everything else all thats being offered is easy and boring, but i do believe, and i was here at beta time, stopped playing and came back several times, that a gap is being created with the continuous expansions, gear score decreases and to get gear, or good enough gear, for a player that starts today is getting too **** hard with no implements on the ladder of getting gear of the game....
At beta time we had enough for gear, PVP 1st set was easy, then we worked for grim coins set, then we could be prepared for dungeons, T2 set gear, nowdays with a T1 set party any epic dungeon can be a headeach, too long, too hard, and these days grim coin gear is **** hard to get, not that this gear is good enough but, the prtys are more and more players with gear scores already at good positions, excluding everyone else from it, the game is being directed more and more for cash shop players or casual cash shop players....
To be honest i stay in the game because the playing mechanics that is awesome, the constant events wich is great seing that from a developer, and well thinked lvling, boon ladder, but everything else is becoming unbalanced, PVP and PVE with the crescent adds to the game....
For example, i had a max lvld GF from beta, the gear he wears at that time was 14k GS and it was a good score, i was invited for everything i could do everything with more or less difficulty, now the same gear is no more than 10k GS and its a crippled character he cant do nothing, i started another character that already have better GS than he have but he still stucked on that gap betwen T1 gear and T2 gear that became huge over time......
I have been playing since November of last year and i am still struggling in this game. I know most dont care but lets be honest here. the chances of me owning a level 8 radiant enchantment much less a whole gear set full of them and a greater or perfect weap/armour enchant, just isnt going to happen i have medical bills and life expenses. this game is an escape from all that. and its all that that prevents me from buying the zen to buy all that HAMSTER ..... now with that said...............
I think some of the dungeons are too long as it is. I want to get in get my HAMSTER and get out. that generally means shortcuts a +, mobs that die faster for low gear score chars a +, boss fights with a group or pug that doesn't end in everyone quitting because everyone died 10 times or more and boss resets a definite + the end chests in T2 dungeons that would actually give me the gear I am in there for instead of HAMSTER 15 or 16 times before it finally gives me my stuff, a Plus.
I was asking this because some people claim post and post again that the game focus is casual and the philosophy behind the game is catering to the newbie audience and in no way to the veterans.
It would be good to put these claims to rest once and for all if they aren't true. There is no reason to pigeonhole the game ourselves when the developer intent is yet unknown.
The developers intent is fairly obvious. How many complaints have there been about content being too hard? It's been an issue, but I honestly suspect there have been more posts and topics about wanting more difficulty, rather then less. So knowing that, how many dungeons and lairs have been made more difficult? The answer is zero. On the other hand, how many dungeons and lairs have been changed to be less difficult? Mad dragon, Scalefather, Rime Hound, ect. So, who do you think Cryptic is listening too. Who do you think their preferred audience is?
I was asking this because some people claim post and post again that the game focus is casual and the philosophy behind the game is catering to the newbie audience and in no way to the veterans.
It would be good to put these claims to rest once and for all if they aren't true. There is no reason to pigeonhole the game ourselves when the developer intent is yet unknown.
Anyone playing the game for more than 10 minutes can see that the focus in casual and newbie-friendly. Also anyone who understands the economics of completely FTP gaming knows what the focus of these games HAS to be. Just because there isn't a giant neon sign somewhere spelling it out doesn't mean it ain't so.
The developers intent is fairly obvious. How many complaints have there been about content being too hard? It's been an issue, but I honestly suspect there have been more posts and topics about wanting more difficulty, rather then less. So knowing that, how many dungeons and lairs have been made more difficult? The answer is zero. On the other hand, how many dungeons and lairs have been changed to be less difficult? Mad dragon, Scalefather, Rime Hound, ect. So, who do you think Cryptic is listening too. Who do you think their preferred audience is?
The problem is that even cryptic or the developers know how to make hard content doable. Their idea of hard is either get one shotted or lost and lost of adds. Now, if you actually bring some counters to that equation. EXAMPLES:
- Intercept mobs from healing each other, you see that cast bar and you have to use your interrupts.
- Two new scorpions must die within 5 seconds of each other or else they go enrage mode and wipe everything.
- A boss with, lets say 2 phases, in 1 phase he only takes magical damage, in the other he only takes physical damage.
- Mobs that only do magical or physical damage. (this would also bring the need for different classes in partys)
- Bosses that cast a curse on players, which a DC must dispel and has only a few seconds to do it, or else that players dies.
- Bosses that CC the one who has aggro and instantly jump to the one who is second on aggro-meter (this way you would need two tanky classes in party)
I mean, i can continue like this for ages.
All of these things can be casual friendly, but maybe give some heroic options for players who are maxed out or something. Making people oneshot you instead is not an idea of epic/heroic instance imo
I really like PvE, and with a combat system like this they should take advantage of it and bring some real content both PvE and PvP.
Majority of the people are voting for some actually challenging dungeons.
Listen to your players, like Abecasis, just now came with some really simple ideas that would make dungeons much more challenging and fun
You realise that this forum represents a tiny fraction of the playerbase, right? And is heavily weighted towards hardcore players? Why should the devs listen to such a biased minority?
Actually, not so much. Anything that requires a high level of co-ordination can be difficult to make casual friendly. Look how many PuGs struggle with relatively simple strategies and boss mechanics in the current content.
That said, I do like some of those suggestions. Would be nice to have some variation from a straight DPS race.
No, I think that the difficult of the game is perfect as it is, there's no need for more challenge.
.. Where's the difficult?
A dungeon should be a challenge, for drop your equip or something else to sell handsomely, not free safely runs with 10k ad drops.. ^_^
| Cìrdan - GF | Cìrdan The Lightbringer - OP |
< Guild: Pugno Fiammante >
.. Where's the difficult?
A dungeon should be a challenge, for drop your equip or something else to sell handsomely, not free safely runs with 10k ad drops.. ^_^
Go pug Epic Tuern skirmish 10 times in a row. I would estimate that if you do not have a GF in your party, your team will wipe on the final boss (or you will be the only one left standing) 75% of the time.
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katbozejziemiMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 856Arc User
edited September 2014
State of PvE: Wizards are still as retardedly overpowered as ever, despite claims of "balance" being made coming in Mod4, thanks to the skillful whining of CW players in the preview forums and the fact that the devs don't play their own game
What is even the point of discussion about the difficulty of content?
Go pug Epic Tuern skirmish 10 times in a row. I would estimate that if you do not have a GF in your party, your team will wipe on the final boss (or you will be the only one left standing) 75% of the time.
I am the GF. I did it. rofl.
| Cìrdan - GF | Cìrdan The Lightbringer - OP |
< Guild: Pugno Fiammante >
When over 90% of the player Base are casual players (conservative estimate), I can't believe that ppl are complaining about the difficulty. Go play something else if you are getting bored. Games are not meant to be played for hour upon hour. If it's too easy and youhhave nothing to do, you are gaming too much! If anyone in your real life has said that you play too much or you are addicted or need to go out more, you need to evaluate your gaming.
Take a break. Go out. Find something tangible to do with your time!
I'm so tired of whining players whotthink games should be more than a casual experience. Yes you choose to do what you want and should not be dictated to how you spend your time, however I think you will be disappointed and depressed as the world is turning all around you. It's a persistent world after all.
Then do it on another class. GFs have a unique ability in this skirmish to guarantee the safety of the party. Point is, if there is no GF around, a typical pug party will probably wipe. This demonstrates the challenge of this skirmish to the *typical* player.
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beckylunaticMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 14,231Arc User
Actually, not so much. Anything that requires a high level of co-ordination can be difficult to make casual friendly. Look how many PuGs struggle with relatively simple strategies and boss mechanics in the current content.
''
The people who spend 4 hours in Spellplague, only to eventually get stuck at the final boss waiting for a GF replacement to queue in (and hoping it won't be one from a ninja guild)... those are casual players.
The people you see running around in IWD with no guild and using a highly questionable power loadout... casual players.
The people you see in Dread Ring zone chat looking for help with a lair, not because it's faster in a group but because they have actually said that they can't beat the boss... casual players.
By which I don't mean to denigrate the casual player, but being here on these forums as a regular presence indicates you are predisposed to trying to optimize your gameplay performance. You might still not qualify as a hardcore gamer, but you seek out information to better yourself rather than just sort of fumbling along and hoping you'll be ok.
Regular forum personalities are more informed, which gives them a strong advantage in coordinated play. They are capable of blowing through content that less informed players struggle with. And it isn't in the developers' interest to not cater to the casual playerbase because the majority of the time, a frustrated player will go find a friendlier game rather than launch into research mode.
State of PvE: Wizards are still as retardedly overpowered as ever, despite claims of "balance" being made coming in Mod4, thanks to the skillful whining of CW players in the preview forums and the fact that the devs don't play their own game
What is even the point of discussion about the difficulty of content?
I guess you haven't been in a party with a warlock who knows what he's doing
The people who spend 4 hours in Spellplague, only to eventually get stuck at the final boss waiting for a GF replacement to queue in (and hoping it won't be one from a ninja guild)... those are casual players.
The people you see running around in IWD with no guild and using a highly questionable power loadout... casual players.
The people you see in Dread Ring zone chat looking for help with a lair, not because it's faster in a group but because they have actually said that they can't beat the boss... casual players.
By which I don't mean to denigrate the casual player, but being here on these forums as a regular presence indicates you are predisposed to trying to optimize your gameplay performance. You might still not qualify as a hardcore gamer, but you seek out information to better yourself rather than just sort of fumbling along and hoping you'll be ok.
Regular forum personalities are more informed, which gives them a strong advantage in coordinated play. They are capable of blowing through content that less informed players struggle with. And it isn't in the developers' interest to not cater to the casual playerbase because the majority of the time, a frustrated player will go find a friendlier game rather than launch into research mode.
I'm not a huge adept of social darwinism, but come on, the lowest common denominator doesn't make enjoyable games. There are already plenty of content for such players. There are 4 campaigns, 3 or 4 lairs in each, all of the T1 dungeons, pirate king, all of the skirmishes... Making harder content doesn't take a lot of dev time if it's done properly, which means there can be a normal version of the dungeon and a harder one, like they did with lair of lostmough. No one here is asking for a harder normal version. No one. Most people are probably just asking for the epic version to truly whip our asses. Epic should feel like some sort of accomplishment once you've figured out how to overcome the challenges, not a 10 mins zergfest.
Dedicated hard content doesn't mean the place has to be unique!
I'm not a huge adept of social darwinism, but come on, the lowest common denominator doesn't make enjoyable games.[/B]
The game is enjoyable no? Otherwise we would not be here? It is not about the lowest common denominator. The Devs can't spend the time working on content for the highest geared players because it makes no fiscal sense. Money is best spent creating new content for everyone.
The game does need less of a grind, though any new difficulty would be solved by players rather quickly anyhow.
Seems people just want more gear, more power, more bragging rights.
Perhaps the dungeons could be tweaked in difficulty with a legendary mode, though it only caters to such a small percentage of the player Base that it is not worth the financial investment.
The game is enjoyable no? Otherwise we would not be here? It is not about the lowest common denominator. The Devs can't spend the time working on content for the highest geared players because it makes no fiscal sense. Money is best spent creating new content for everyone.
The game does need less of a grind, though any new difficulty would be solved by players rather quickly anyhow.
Seems people just want more gear, more power, more bragging rights.
Perhaps the dungeons could be tweaked in difficulty with a legendary mode, though it only caters to such a small percentage of the player Base that it is not worth the financial investment.
where do they even find players like you. Im guessing its because of the d&d tag this game has lost. This is clearly an mmorpg and should rather focus on taking advantage of their combat system with more content, then killing the same mobs doing dailys everyday.
where do they even find players like you. Im guessing its because of the d&d tag this game has lost. This is clearly an mmorpg and should rather focus on taking advantage of their combat system with more content, then killing the same mobs doing dailys everyday.
I'm not sure I was clear. I agree completely that they focus on the combat system and make more content. I hate dailies too. I just meant that there would likely not be more 5% ccontent because the Devs need $. Makes sense to make content for all, not merely a difficulty standard for the elites.
I'm not a d&d player anyhow. The game of neverwinter is small compared to other mmos. Lacking in many ways, but it is still fun.
Need more, yes. That was the focus of my commentary. Difficulty is not the issue. Content is,
Casual player chiming in here. I've mentioned this before somewhere, just can't remember where.
as both SoT and LoL have Normal and Epic modes, then maybe the dungeons should have more modes added to them. Normal, Epic, Heroic, and Nightmare. With each tier based on gearscore. Nightmare would obviously be for 18k +. In those difficulties, you might have to pay more attention - like with the SoT boss if you don't have a GF (3 manned it the other day - TR, DC and GWF) where if the boss does something, his skill can 1 shot you and maybe even the whole party. Maybe even o as far as to take out the red splats to keep you guessing where the boss is going to hit you next. It's obvious that devs are listening, but I think more dungeon modes with maybe even better drops as a result (like Lesser enchants and rank 7s) could be nicer. And since the majority of players aren't super high GS players, that pretty much gates it to those who've taken the time to get there.
I don't mind dungeons where they are because I don't have the crazy high GS where I can walk in and smash everything all super easy. For those that do, however, there should be an option, and because it's harder, the rewards are higher. Still, my preferred fights are the ones without a bazillion adds (Valindra, and the last boss in MC, for example), and maybe something where you actually have to pay attention.
At the same time, I would like for a limitation of classes being taken as well - some of the dungeons are easy to some because they take mostly CWs. How about instead, limiting to just one of each class? Going to take 2 CW? Can't queue. Of course that will never happen, but it's a thought. I'm sure all dungeons could be done with just 1 of each class.
That''s just my thoughts though, as a casual player who loves doing dungeons on occasions. I don't care that my main has 15.7K GS and only one rank 8 enchant - I'm mostly here because the community and the fun I have with them - even in easy dungeons. But if I had a choice in dungeons for fun? You bet I'd take it.
I'm not sure I was clear. I agree completely that they focus on the combat system and make more content. I hate dailies too. I just meant that there would likely not be more 5% ccontent because the Devs need $. Makes sense to make content for all, not merely a difficulty standard for the elites.
I'm not a d&d player anyhow. The game of neverwinter is small compared to other mmos. Lacking in many ways, but it is still fun.
Need more, yes. That was the focus of my commentary. Difficulty is not the issue. Content is,
Aaand you keep missing the point. The entire point of this thread isn't having more difficult dungeons. It's having more challenging ones!
If you don't see the difference let me explain it: a more difficult dungeon would basically give you less time to react, significantly increase damage in all areas, give you various penalties... That's not what we're asking for. Well npcs may hit a bit harder that's true but it's not relevant. Challenging content means players will have to scratch their heads, read spells tooltip, know how their spells work and are able to take a look at what the npc is doing to try to figure out a way to kill it.
Challenging content means challenging players with new mechanics requiring new rotations, new kind of teams with different classes, and so on. Have you ever seen a dungeon in which using ice storm and repel are a part of the ideal rotation for CWs? I haven't. Have you ever seen a dungeon in which it makes clerics debuffing suboptimal and healing the best option? I haven't.
Now let's make an imaginary example to make it even clearer. Let's assume we have, in a dungeon, specific NPCs reflecting 100% of the incoming damage to the damage dealer. All the time. No artificial break to let you smash his face in one hit. The max debuff-dps-race gogogo run faster mode isn't going to work in this case. If the cleric is debuffing npcs instead of, you know, healing, his friends will just get back a lot more damage in their faces. A CW mindlessly doing aoe is going to die. Let's assume that these npcs are immune to daze from oppressive force, to chill but not to entrangling force and let's assume that when they're controlled they don't send back all of the damage but a lot less of it. Such npcs could be overcomed in many ways. Just take your sweet time, don't use too many aoe spells and pick your target (basically bring casuals and let them do their usual slow as hell thing), or have a duo cleric/tank to deal with the amount of damage you deal (focus on support), or have a couple of wizards using entrangling force on our HAMSTER npcs (focus on control). And you better bring as few crit as you can, strip your vorpals to have a manageable and predictible amount of damage to take care of. There are at least 3 options, the content can be deadly as hell if you want to dps race the thing or it can be accessible if you take your time, everyone has his challenge, and everyone enjoys the loot at the end.
This is just one example, and i'm not even a game designer, which means that there are people working at cryptic with a lot more skill and experience about this, but with this unique example of npc you flush the current meta into the toilets and bring a completely new kind of experience. I'm confident the devs can come up with something more refined and interesting. But for some reasons they aren't doing it yet. This thread is only about this, asking for new challenges, not for npcs doing 200k dps and killing you in one hit if you don't do the secret rain dance.
At the same time, I would like for a limitation of classes being taken as well - some of the dungeons are easy to some because they take mostly CWs. How about instead, limiting to just one of each class? Going to take 2 CW? Can't queue. Of course that will never happen, but it's a thought. I'm sure all dungeons could be done with just 1 of each class.
That is not going to happen. If a group of friends or a pair of friends play a particular class, they do not like being locked out of content.
Locking casual players out of content is not their style. I can see them designing dungeons with less mobs to prevent the need to stack CWs
I was trying to say the same thing, though not as eloquently. That is the kind of content I meant. I was merely pointing out that Neverwinter lacked the content from the start. It's a relatively small game. We need more content.
I was also pointing out that the lack of content means that they are quickly trying to keep everyone busy, and are not focused on making the content we are talking about in your post.
I believe that mod 6 will bring this kind of content and mod 4 is just to keep us busy.
I'm still a little surprised this game didn't show up as a "pay once-play forever" or a subscription
"Perfect World announced that Neverwinter had shifted from the co-operative multiplayer game that was announced the previous year into a free-to-play MMORPG on October 5, 2011." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neverwinter_%28video_game%29
Comments
Agreed! I also believe that those who complain about the lack of end game are the same people who play a lot. Thus they will finish said content and master it. Get the loot and then complain about the lack of end game content.
Blowing through content with guilds etc and playing more than 2 hours a day guarantees that you will be bored in a game like neverwinter in a short period of time.
That is why PWE gates content and this blows for everyone. RNG is also based on the number of people running the content. You cannot have 50 belts drop every hour. They are supposed to be rare. If people didn't camp Dragon's there would be better odds. Try iwd now. Drop rates appear to be better.
2 cents
At beta time we had enough for gear, PVP 1st set was easy, then we worked for grim coins set, then we could be prepared for dungeons, T2 set gear, nowdays with a T1 set party any epic dungeon can be a headeach, too long, too hard, and these days grim coin gear is **** hard to get, not that this gear is good enough but, the prtys are more and more players with gear scores already at good positions, excluding everyone else from it, the game is being directed more and more for cash shop players or casual cash shop players....
To be honest i stay in the game because the playing mechanics that is awesome, the constant events wich is great seing that from a developer, and well thinked lvling, boon ladder, but everything else is becoming unbalanced, PVP and PVE with the crescent adds to the game....
For example, i had a max lvld GF from beta, the gear he wears at that time was 14k GS and it was a good score, i was invited for everything i could do everything with more or less difficulty, now the same gear is no more than 10k GS and its a crippled character he cant do nothing, i started another character that already have better GS than he have but he still stucked on that gap betwen T1 gear and T2 gear that became huge over time......
If you want harder content, just join queues and PUG it instead of specifying you want 15k and higher GS.
Venril- SW
Lurch- GF
Mini Ven- DC
I can show you videos of SOLOING Draco/CN and LoL epic.
If people can solo these dungeons, do you thin running it with 4 pugs is making it harder?
Well no. pugs will wipe and after that the good player will solo the boss.
So this is a non-argument.
I have been playing since November of last year and i am still struggling in this game. I know most dont care but lets be honest here. the chances of me owning a level 8 radiant enchantment much less a whole gear set full of them and a greater or perfect weap/armour enchant, just isnt going to happen i have medical bills and life expenses. this game is an escape from all that. and its all that that prevents me from buying the zen to buy all that HAMSTER ..... now with that said...............
I think some of the dungeons are too long as it is. I want to get in get my HAMSTER and get out. that generally means shortcuts a +, mobs that die faster for low gear score chars a +, boss fights with a group or pug that doesn't end in everyone quitting because everyone died 10 times or more and boss resets a definite + the end chests in T2 dungeons that would actually give me the gear I am in there for instead of HAMSTER 15 or 16 times before it finally gives me my stuff, a Plus.
~Vladimar Zul - Fury build SW ~
~Takadump onzcrapper - Iron vangaurd GF~
The developers intent is fairly obvious. How many complaints have there been about content being too hard? It's been an issue, but I honestly suspect there have been more posts and topics about wanting more difficulty, rather then less. So knowing that, how many dungeons and lairs have been made more difficult? The answer is zero. On the other hand, how many dungeons and lairs have been changed to be less difficult? Mad dragon, Scalefather, Rime Hound, ect. So, who do you think Cryptic is listening too. Who do you think their preferred audience is?
Aelar Hawkwind - Archer
Karrin Feywinter - Mistress of Flame
Errin Duskwalker - Executioner
Darquess - Soulbinder
The problem is that even cryptic or the developers know how to make hard content doable. Their idea of hard is either get one shotted or lost and lost of adds. Now, if you actually bring some counters to that equation. EXAMPLES:
- Intercept mobs from healing each other, you see that cast bar and you have to use your interrupts.
- Two new scorpions must die within 5 seconds of each other or else they go enrage mode and wipe everything.
- A boss with, lets say 2 phases, in 1 phase he only takes magical damage, in the other he only takes physical damage.
- Mobs that only do magical or physical damage. (this would also bring the need for different classes in partys)
- Bosses that cast a curse on players, which a DC must dispel and has only a few seconds to do it, or else that players dies.
- Bosses that CC the one who has aggro and instantly jump to the one who is second on aggro-meter (this way you would need two tanky classes in party)
I mean, i can continue like this for ages.
All of these things can be casual friendly, but maybe give some heroic options for players who are maxed out or something. Making people oneshot you instead is not an idea of epic/heroic instance imo
I really like PvE, and with a combat system like this they should take advantage of it and bring some real content both PvE and PvP.
Listen to your players, like Abecasis, just now came with some really simple ideas that would make dungeons much more challenging and fun
Aelar Hawkwind - Archer
Karrin Feywinter - Mistress of Flame
Errin Duskwalker - Executioner
Darquess - Soulbinder
That said, I do like some of those suggestions. Would be nice to have some variation from a straight DPS race.
Aelar Hawkwind - Archer
Karrin Feywinter - Mistress of Flame
Errin Duskwalker - Executioner
Darquess - Soulbinder
A dungeon should be a challenge, for drop your equip or something else to sell handsomely, not free safely runs with 10k ad drops.. ^_^
| Cìrdan - GF | Cìrdan The Lightbringer - OP |
< Guild: Pugno Fiammante >
Go pug Epic Tuern skirmish 10 times in a row. I would estimate that if you do not have a GF in your party, your team will wipe on the final boss (or you will be the only one left standing) 75% of the time.
What is even the point of discussion about the difficulty of content?
I am the GF. I did it. rofl.
| Cìrdan - GF | Cìrdan The Lightbringer - OP |
< Guild: Pugno Fiammante >
Take a break. Go out. Find something tangible to do with your time!
I'm so tired of whining players whotthink games should be more than a casual experience. Yes you choose to do what you want and should not be dictated to how you spend your time, however I think you will be disappointed and depressed as the world is turning all around you. It's a persistent world after all.
The people who spend 4 hours in Spellplague, only to eventually get stuck at the final boss waiting for a GF replacement to queue in (and hoping it won't be one from a ninja guild)... those are casual players.
The people you see running around in IWD with no guild and using a highly questionable power loadout... casual players.
The people you see in Dread Ring zone chat looking for help with a lair, not because it's faster in a group but because they have actually said that they can't beat the boss... casual players.
By which I don't mean to denigrate the casual player, but being here on these forums as a regular presence indicates you are predisposed to trying to optimize your gameplay performance. You might still not qualify as a hardcore gamer, but you seek out information to better yourself rather than just sort of fumbling along and hoping you'll be ok.
Regular forum personalities are more informed, which gives them a strong advantage in coordinated play. They are capable of blowing through content that less informed players struggle with. And it isn't in the developers' interest to not cater to the casual playerbase because the majority of the time, a frustrated player will go find a friendlier game rather than launch into research mode.
Neverwinter Census 2017
All posts pending disapproval by Cecilia
I guess you haven't been in a party with a warlock who knows what he's doing
Isn't the damage done bugged currently with Warlock's TT though?
I'm not a huge adept of social darwinism, but come on, the lowest common denominator doesn't make enjoyable games. There are already plenty of content for such players. There are 4 campaigns, 3 or 4 lairs in each, all of the T1 dungeons, pirate king, all of the skirmishes... Making harder content doesn't take a lot of dev time if it's done properly, which means there can be a normal version of the dungeon and a harder one, like they did with lair of lostmough. No one here is asking for a harder normal version. No one. Most people are probably just asking for the epic version to truly whip our asses. Epic should feel like some sort of accomplishment once you've figured out how to overcome the challenges, not a 10 mins zergfest.
Dedicated hard content doesn't mean the place has to be unique!
The game is enjoyable no? Otherwise we would not be here? It is not about the lowest common denominator. The Devs can't spend the time working on content for the highest geared players because it makes no fiscal sense. Money is best spent creating new content for everyone.
The game does need less of a grind, though any new difficulty would be solved by players rather quickly anyhow.
Seems people just want more gear, more power, more bragging rights.
Perhaps the dungeons could be tweaked in difficulty with a legendary mode, though it only caters to such a small percentage of the player Base that it is not worth the financial investment.
where do they even find players like you. Im guessing its because of the d&d tag this game has lost. This is clearly an mmorpg and should rather focus on taking advantage of their combat system with more content, then killing the same mobs doing dailys everyday.
I'm not sure I was clear. I agree completely that they focus on the combat system and make more content. I hate dailies too. I just meant that there would likely not be more 5% ccontent because the Devs need $. Makes sense to make content for all, not merely a difficulty standard for the elites.
I'm not a d&d player anyhow. The game of neverwinter is small compared to other mmos. Lacking in many ways, but it is still fun.
Need more, yes. That was the focus of my commentary. Difficulty is not the issue. Content is,
as both SoT and LoL have Normal and Epic modes, then maybe the dungeons should have more modes added to them. Normal, Epic, Heroic, and Nightmare. With each tier based on gearscore. Nightmare would obviously be for 18k +. In those difficulties, you might have to pay more attention - like with the SoT boss if you don't have a GF (3 manned it the other day - TR, DC and GWF) where if the boss does something, his skill can 1 shot you and maybe even the whole party. Maybe even o as far as to take out the red splats to keep you guessing where the boss is going to hit you next. It's obvious that devs are listening, but I think more dungeon modes with maybe even better drops as a result (like Lesser enchants and rank 7s) could be nicer. And since the majority of players aren't super high GS players, that pretty much gates it to those who've taken the time to get there.
I don't mind dungeons where they are because I don't have the crazy high GS where I can walk in and smash everything all super easy. For those that do, however, there should be an option, and because it's harder, the rewards are higher. Still, my preferred fights are the ones without a bazillion adds (Valindra, and the last boss in MC, for example), and maybe something where you actually have to pay attention.
At the same time, I would like for a limitation of classes being taken as well - some of the dungeons are easy to some because they take mostly CWs. How about instead, limiting to just one of each class? Going to take 2 CW? Can't queue. Of course that will never happen, but it's a thought. I'm sure all dungeons could be done with just 1 of each class.
That''s just my thoughts though, as a casual player who loves doing dungeons on occasions. I don't care that my main has 15.7K GS and only one rank 8 enchant - I'm mostly here because the community and the fun I have with them - even in easy dungeons. But if I had a choice in dungeons for fun? You bet I'd take it.
I have many alts, I am a class and race rainbow.
Aaand you keep missing the point. The entire point of this thread isn't having more difficult dungeons. It's having more challenging ones!
If you don't see the difference let me explain it: a more difficult dungeon would basically give you less time to react, significantly increase damage in all areas, give you various penalties... That's not what we're asking for. Well npcs may hit a bit harder that's true but it's not relevant. Challenging content means players will have to scratch their heads, read spells tooltip, know how their spells work and are able to take a look at what the npc is doing to try to figure out a way to kill it.
Challenging content means challenging players with new mechanics requiring new rotations, new kind of teams with different classes, and so on. Have you ever seen a dungeon in which using ice storm and repel are a part of the ideal rotation for CWs? I haven't. Have you ever seen a dungeon in which it makes clerics debuffing suboptimal and healing the best option? I haven't.
Now let's make an imaginary example to make it even clearer. Let's assume we have, in a dungeon, specific NPCs reflecting 100% of the incoming damage to the damage dealer. All the time. No artificial break to let you smash his face in one hit. The max debuff-dps-race gogogo run faster mode isn't going to work in this case. If the cleric is debuffing npcs instead of, you know, healing, his friends will just get back a lot more damage in their faces. A CW mindlessly doing aoe is going to die. Let's assume that these npcs are immune to daze from oppressive force, to chill but not to entrangling force and let's assume that when they're controlled they don't send back all of the damage but a lot less of it. Such npcs could be overcomed in many ways. Just take your sweet time, don't use too many aoe spells and pick your target (basically bring casuals and let them do their usual slow as hell thing), or have a duo cleric/tank to deal with the amount of damage you deal (focus on support), or have a couple of wizards using entrangling force on our HAMSTER npcs (focus on control). And you better bring as few crit as you can, strip your vorpals to have a manageable and predictible amount of damage to take care of. There are at least 3 options, the content can be deadly as hell if you want to dps race the thing or it can be accessible if you take your time, everyone has his challenge, and everyone enjoys the loot at the end.
This is just one example, and i'm not even a game designer, which means that there are people working at cryptic with a lot more skill and experience about this, but with this unique example of npc you flush the current meta into the toilets and bring a completely new kind of experience. I'm confident the devs can come up with something more refined and interesting. But for some reasons they aren't doing it yet. This thread is only about this, asking for new challenges, not for npcs doing 200k dps and killing you in one hit if you don't do the secret rain dance.
That is not going to happen. If a group of friends or a pair of friends play a particular class, they do not like being locked out of content.
Locking casual players out of content is not their style. I can see them designing dungeons with less mobs to prevent the need to stack CWs
I was also pointing out that the lack of content means that they are quickly trying to keep everyone busy, and are not focused on making the content we are talking about in your post.
I believe that mod 6 will bring this kind of content and mod 4 is just to keep us busy.
"Perfect World announced that Neverwinter had shifted from the co-operative multiplayer game that was announced the previous year into a free-to-play MMORPG on October 5, 2011."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neverwinter_%28video_game%29
Neverwinter Census 2017
All posts pending disapproval by Cecilia