Today I tried The Shores of Tuern skirmish for the first time. It is harder for sure. But that's only because mobs become tougher. Imho, a fun PvE content would not only have tougher mobs.
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beckylunaticMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 14,231Arc User
Since I'm sometimes running around in IWD, with no guild to belong to and a 20 something GS, I felt targeted by this remark, so I'll answer it before answering this thread's topic.
So yes, I'm a casual gamer. But my power loadout is not questionable at all : I bought it.
Wow, that wasn't what I meant at all. Not power meaning your gear... power loadout meaning what skills the player is using. CWs still clinging to Ice Storm, things like that. No guild means that they've had nobody to help them learn how to play better.
Love the idea, but I don't think they can do it. It will be prone to players gaming the system. I think foundry should be used to make unofficial PVP maps and PVP modes (no rewards, no leaderboard rankings) that could lead to some maps and modes being made official once they are verified (could take weeks).
I am sure they can think of something.
like a ring that give u 5% bonus of random thing
could be 3% DR + 2% run speed
or 4% gold gain + 1% stamina regen
etc.
I m not talking about completely unique items like
when u use a daily u get immunity to control for 3 sec
or increase your rang attack be 5 feet
or when u get prone you have 3% chance to teleport to a random place 30 feet away
or if you crit hit a target you have 1% chance to summon a fire elemental companion for 30 sec
...
(but I am pretty sure they can do that as well)
at least let foundry have real bosses and change the reward.
bonus exp is not appealing to high levels
maybe make it refinement reward (5 peridot, 2 aquamarine, ruby etc.)
all I am getting is green items
!. Make healers that can heal and are needed.
2. Make tanks that can tank, and are needed.
3. Make dps classes so they can dps, and are needed.
4. Make CC classes so they can CC, and not out DPS the DPS classes, and are needed.
Then, make dungeons exciting and rewarding. A challenging fight and the time invested ought to yield a good chance at a great reward.
CC classes ARE DPS classes. AoE DPS is part of control.
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chemboy613Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,521Arc User
edited September 2014
Ok, I'm not going to digress or complain, or talk about classbalance (things seem fine in eSOT btw), but please.
PLEASE
MORE DIFFICULT
CONTENT
Give me something i can't figure out in 20 minutes! Please!
Sure, but CC classes should be 2nd on DPS, and not first.
indeed, if CC classes can outDPS the DPS classes, AND control, what is the purpose of DPS classes?
About PVE changes, a few ideas I'd like to see:
-For future campaigns, make it so it looks like we're getting somewhere, unlocking new map sections, killing powerful bosses, not "bring me 5 cats type quests for 10 days to be able to get to "bring me 10 coconuts" for 15 days after that. Have a story unfold as we progress in the campaign, that alone would make it much more interesting for many of us.
-Make a foundry campaign, with requirements like the PVP one (examples: play a quest with an average duration of over 30 mins) with boons and everything.
-Make a NPC that gives a different random featured foundry quest each day and make it so it can give an interesting reward.
-Make all classes needed in dungeons.
-Foundry contests where the winner entry gets put as official content.
-Make 10 people raids with much harder content that can't be zerged (CN should be turned into a raid IMO) and gives the best loot.
I know there are much more ideas, but there are a few interesting ones.
Sure, but CC classes should be 2nd on DPS, and not first.
They already are, SW and (PvE spec) HR rule DPS in the new content and even in most of the old content.
I hope fixes to TR will put the class up there competing for the top DPS as well - in single-target heavy situations. DC should have a functional debuff/DPS tree too IMO.
Because people have to understand that content should be varied, and different classes should perform differently based on the type of the dungeon.
If you have add-heavy fight, CW should top DPS. If it's a fight with 2-3 elite mobs, then TR should lead. All situational.
There is also another quite important thing that irks me quite heavily.
This is the ONLY game where people care about DPS on TRASH MOBS. I mean, what the hell?!
Boss fights should be what matter for DPS measuring. Nobody should care what you did on some trash mobs... so yeah, Neverwinter players need to mature a bit, but Paingiver chart should mature too, and work more like ACT, so one could separate the encounters and measure boss fights, in the game.
2. Let's say, for arguments sake, that the majority of the playerbase is not represented here, it should their responsibilities to get themselves represented.
3. There are dungeons that can be run with 5700 GS, I think they are represented enough.
Sure, let's get all the casual players to forget their kids, families, and jobs and tell them they need to be responsible on a video game forum, that should go down well.
Venril Sathir- CW
Venril- SW
Lurch- GF
Mini Ven- DC
This is the ONLY game where people care about DPS on TRASH MOBS. I mean, what the hell?!
I agree, I think dungeons should be changed, not the WHOLE dungeon, just the boss, so it's actually the boss that's the hardest part of the dungeon, not its adds.
Boss shouldn't have adds, unless it's needed for a special strategy (like having to kill some mobs to prevent them from healing the boss) but a boss fight should feature the boss ALONE. and he should be hard on its own.
That would fix the CW+GWF speed fest we have now. But I don't see them going back to old dungeons and fixing that. Let's hope for new ones they have that in mind.
I agree, I think dungeons should be changed, not the WHOLE dungeon, just the boss, so it's actually the boss that's the hardest part of the dungeon, not its adds.
Boss shouldn't have adds, unless it's needed for a special strategy (like having to kill some mobs to prevent them from healing the boss) but a boss fight should feature the boss ALONE. and he should be hard on its own.
That would fix the CW+GWF speed fest we have now. But I don't see them going back to old dungeons and fixing that. Let's hope for new ones they have that in mind.
VT is an add fest, it's multiple adds all the way to Val, and if you have high enough dps you can ignore her mechanics as well and just burn everything.
MC is about the same until you hit the dragon, at which point you have just a sack of hp to burn down. The bug they "fixed" that let certain powers interrupt val had given me hope that they were testing more complicated mechanics, but then they decided it was a bug.
SoT, adds adds adds till the boss who as long as you keep dodging is just a sack of hp.
LoL less adds, bosses are once again just training dummies with a lot of hp.
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aulduronMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,351Arc User
edited September 2014
He was talking about the bosses.
VT and MC both have bosses without adds, unless you mess up. Even without a CW it's easy to clear the adds.
SoT has no more than about a half dozen mobs in any one place.
SoT and LoL both have trash mobs and bosses that will 1 shot you.
Sure, let's get all the casual players to forget their kids, families, and jobs and tell them they need to be responsible on a video game forum, that should go down well.
Strikers exceed controllers in single target dps for sure. But when it comes to AOE dps, controllers out perform others.
But that's the thing: aoe dps is what the dungeons are all about, aren't they? Plus, even single target dps classes(primarily CW) STILL have great single target dps. I still see CWs excel in damage in single target encounters, like Valindra in VT. Ray of Enfeeblement, Storm Spell proccing, Icy Rays, Ice Knife, even Chill Strike. Heck, conduit of ice non tabbed can proc Storm Spell often enough. And then theres Ray of Frost.
I hear "learn to play" all the time, but it seems to me that it should be defined as "my class is balanced, except when others beat it, then THAT class is OP"...
I agree, what's the use of a single DPS class with NW's dungeons? There's no reason to bring them there currently, you clear all content much more efficiently with CWs anyway.
Strikers need to be useful for something.
No, not more difficulty. I don't know who is voting for more difficulty but I suppose they are people with (very) high GS. You should realize that not everybody has the time or can afford to get high GS. And as others said this will scare lots of new players. My highest character has 13,7 GS and I have great difficulty to solo some quests like Ghost Stories. Of course some of you will say that you can solo everything with a GS of 9 but that's a plain lie that only you will believe.
So no, the difficulty is hard enough.
No, not more difficulty. I don't know who is voting for more difficulty but I suppose they are people with (very) high GS. You should realize that not everybody has the time or can afford to get high GS. And as others said this will scare lots of new players. My highest character has 13,7 GS and I have great difficulty to solo some quests like Ghost Stories. Of course some of you will say that you can solo everything with a GS of 9 but that's a plain lie that only you will believe.
So no, the difficulty is hard enough.
disagree, i have 14000 gs HR and game seems to me very trivialized easy in most occasions. if i am part of guild run, we will roll over ToD content with no problem. almost dont matter on party composition
No, the final boss in Ghost Stories can be very challenging to solo depending on class and spec. My 16k CW has little problems with it but it is very very hard with my 13k GWF.
i disagree with harder content. that doesn't attract new or even casual players. if cryptic wants to appease the uber elite, just create solo content for them. add in perma-death for the chance to acquire say..Legendary loot? there's your challenge in a nutshell!
I don't consider myself a Hardcore gamer, but I love challenge, I've speaking with some dudes that think exactly like me (and I repeat, none of them consider themself Hardcore or Uber elite), it's just about creating fun content (and fun content for a lot of people is not just faceroll everything), so please, stop with the "Only Uber 20K GS extreme Hardcore players want challenge", I've heard that like 1031023 times and it isn't true.
There are casual players that want it easy, and there are that want it challenging (like me), so stop saying that only Hardcore players want it challenging.
No, not more difficulty. I don't know who is voting for more difficulty but I suppose they are people with (very) high GS. You should realize that not everybody has the time or can afford to get high GS. And as others said this will scare lots of new players. My highest character has 13,7 GS and I have great difficulty to solo some quests like Ghost Stories. Of course some of you will say that you can solo everything with a GS of 9 but that's a plain lie that only you will believe.
So no, the difficulty is hard enough.
You're messing up meanings of hard and challenging. Hard is what we are getting - tougher mobs with more HP and more damage, also more of these mobs, more CC and CC immunity. What we wanna get is challenging content in terms of learning it. Instead of 5 elites in Ghost Stories, there could have been puzzle to figure out, or set of traps that would instakill you, or the boss that doesn't die unless you'll find a trigger, which opens a pit under feet of the boss makes him fall there and die.
I hate mobs like white dragon wings, marsh mystics and rimefire golems, but this is how they make fights "harder", I don't want more of it as well as all of the others.
M6 almost drains your soul given how boring it is. (c) joocycuzzzzzz
You're messing up meanings of hard and challenging. Hard is what we are getting - tougher mobs with more HP and more damage, also more of these mobs, more CC and CC immunity. What we wanna get is challenging content in terms of learning it. Instead of 5 elites in Ghost Stories, there could have been puzzle to figure out, or set of traps that would instakill you, or the boss that doesn't die unless you'll find a trigger, which opens a pit under feet of the boss makes him fall there and die.
I hate mobs like white dragon wings, marsh mystics and rimefire golems, but this is how they make fights "harder", I don't want more of it as well as all of the others.
Actually I'm not opposed to Harder and more challenging content, 60% of the PvE content is lacking on both (IMO), but maybe more on the challenge.
I think people saying there are too many adds are doing a great disservice to this topic. The original dungeons were a challenge when the game launched. Why? we were all less experienced, but dungeons were also full of many groups of adds. A lot of adds means a lot of sources of red on the ground, multiple sources of sustained damage (what matters the MOST in terms of "ok let's move my *** out of here i can't take more"), and multiple possible targets with the possibility to pick the wrong one.
I've done the lair of lostmauth lately. Gods this thing is a joke. It's so empty it feels like a ghost town. At least when I pull a full room in spellplague I have the feeling of being a bit challenged for the reasons I mentionned, and it feels like what it's supposed to be, an action game. The new dungeon has nothing challenging, it's either being killed in one hit or monsters are a passive piece of meat with legs just begging to be killed. Crowded place surely feels more challenging, and in all honesty VT is more challenging than the newer content. When I think about VT I think about the portals spamming dozens of npcs if you're not careful, I think about the room before the final boss; yes, that's a higher step in difficulty. When I think about LoL all I can think about is pathetic adds having nothing but telegraphed AoE damage, and when you're out of red and slightly away from npcs nothing wrong will ever happen.
Comments
Wow, that wasn't what I meant at all. Not power meaning your gear... power loadout meaning what skills the player is using. CWs still clinging to Ice Storm, things like that. No guild means that they've had nobody to help them learn how to play better.
Neverwinter Census 2017
All posts pending disapproval by Cecilia
I am sure they can think of something.
like a ring that give u 5% bonus of random thing
could be 3% DR + 2% run speed
or 4% gold gain + 1% stamina regen
etc.
I m not talking about completely unique items like
when u use a daily u get immunity to control for 3 sec
or increase your rang attack be 5 feet
or when u get prone you have 3% chance to teleport to a random place 30 feet away
or if you crit hit a target you have 1% chance to summon a fire elemental companion for 30 sec
...
(but I am pretty sure they can do that as well)
at least let foundry have real bosses and change the reward.
bonus exp is not appealing to high levels
maybe make it refinement reward (5 peridot, 2 aquamarine, ruby etc.)
all I am getting is green items
Ah. My bad, then.
I'm french and english is not my native language, so it seems I got this all wrong.
My apologies.
Neverwinter Census 2017
All posts pending disapproval by Cecilia
CC classes ARE DPS classes. AoE DPS is part of control.
PLEASE
MORE DIFFICULT
CONTENT
Give me something i can't figure out in 20 minutes! Please!
Everything you need to know about CW:
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?780981-Chem-s-CW-Compendium-Everything-you-need-to-know
Sure, but CC classes should be 2nd on DPS, and not first.
About PVE changes, a few ideas I'd like to see:
-For future campaigns, make it so it looks like we're getting somewhere, unlocking new map sections, killing powerful bosses, not "bring me 5 cats type quests for 10 days to be able to get to "bring me 10 coconuts" for 15 days after that. Have a story unfold as we progress in the campaign, that alone would make it much more interesting for many of us.
-Make a foundry campaign, with requirements like the PVP one (examples: play a quest with an average duration of over 30 mins) with boons and everything.
-Make a NPC that gives a different random featured foundry quest each day and make it so it can give an interesting reward.
-Make all classes needed in dungeons.
-Foundry contests where the winner entry gets put as official content.
-Make 10 people raids with much harder content that can't be zerged (CN should be turned into a raid IMO) and gives the best loot.
I know there are much more ideas, but there are a few interesting ones.
They already are, SW and (PvE spec) HR rule DPS in the new content and even in most of the old content.
I hope fixes to TR will put the class up there competing for the top DPS as well - in single-target heavy situations. DC should have a functional debuff/DPS tree too IMO.
Because people have to understand that content should be varied, and different classes should perform differently based on the type of the dungeon.
If you have add-heavy fight, CW should top DPS. If it's a fight with 2-3 elite mobs, then TR should lead. All situational.
There is also another quite important thing that irks me quite heavily.
This is the ONLY game where people care about DPS on TRASH MOBS. I mean, what the hell?!
Boss fights should be what matter for DPS measuring. Nobody should care what you did on some trash mobs... so yeah, Neverwinter players need to mature a bit, but Paingiver chart should mature too, and work more like ACT, so one could separate the encounters and measure boss fights, in the game.
Sure, let's get all the casual players to forget their kids, families, and jobs and tell them they need to be responsible on a video game forum, that should go down well.
Venril- SW
Lurch- GF
Mini Ven- DC
Boss shouldn't have adds, unless it's needed for a special strategy (like having to kill some mobs to prevent them from healing the boss) but a boss fight should feature the boss ALONE. and he should be hard on its own.
That would fix the CW+GWF speed fest we have now. But I don't see them going back to old dungeons and fixing that. Let's hope for new ones they have that in mind.
Well, it's not our fault that the DPS on TRASH MOBS is the only important thing on the 90% of the content.
You mean like MC, VT, SoT and LoL?
VT is an add fest, it's multiple adds all the way to Val, and if you have high enough dps you can ignore her mechanics as well and just burn everything.
MC is about the same until you hit the dragon, at which point you have just a sack of hp to burn down. The bug they "fixed" that let certain powers interrupt val had given me hope that they were testing more complicated mechanics, but then they decided it was a bug.
SoT, adds adds adds till the boss who as long as you keep dodging is just a sack of hp.
LoL less adds, bosses are once again just training dummies with a lot of hp.
VT and MC both have bosses without adds, unless you mess up. Even without a CW it's easy to clear the adds.
SoT has no more than about a half dozen mobs in any one place.
SoT and LoL both have trash mobs and bosses that will 1 shot you.
And what exactly is your point here?
Strikers exceed controllers in single target dps for sure. But when it comes to AOE dps, controllers out perform others.
But that's the thing: aoe dps is what the dungeons are all about, aren't they? Plus, even single target dps classes(primarily CW) STILL have great single target dps. I still see CWs excel in damage in single target encounters, like Valindra in VT. Ray of Enfeeblement, Storm Spell proccing, Icy Rays, Ice Knife, even Chill Strike. Heck, conduit of ice non tabbed can proc Storm Spell often enough. And then theres Ray of Frost.
Strikers need to be useful for something.
So no, the difficulty is hard enough.
disagree, i have 14000 gs HR and game seems to me very trivialized easy in most occasions. if i am part of guild run, we will roll over ToD content with no problem. almost dont matter on party composition
I don't consider myself a Hardcore gamer, but I love challenge, I've speaking with some dudes that think exactly like me (and I repeat, none of them consider themself Hardcore or Uber elite), it's just about creating fun content (and fun content for a lot of people is not just faceroll everything), so please, stop with the "Only Uber 20K GS extreme Hardcore players want challenge", I've heard that like 1031023 times and it isn't true.
There are casual players that want it easy, and there are that want it challenging (like me), so stop saying that only Hardcore players want it challenging.
You're messing up meanings of hard and challenging. Hard is what we are getting - tougher mobs with more HP and more damage, also more of these mobs, more CC and CC immunity. What we wanna get is challenging content in terms of learning it. Instead of 5 elites in Ghost Stories, there could have been puzzle to figure out, or set of traps that would instakill you, or the boss that doesn't die unless you'll find a trigger, which opens a pit under feet of the boss makes him fall there and die.
I hate mobs like white dragon wings, marsh mystics and rimefire golems, but this is how they make fights "harder", I don't want more of it as well as all of the others.
Actually I'm not opposed to Harder and more challenging content, 60% of the PvE content is lacking on both (IMO), but maybe more on the challenge.
I've done the lair of lostmauth lately. Gods this thing is a joke. It's so empty it feels like a ghost town. At least when I pull a full room in spellplague I have the feeling of being a bit challenged for the reasons I mentionned, and it feels like what it's supposed to be, an action game. The new dungeon has nothing challenging, it's either being killed in one hit or monsters are a passive piece of meat with legs just begging to be killed. Crowded place surely feels more challenging, and in all honesty VT is more challenging than the newer content. When I think about VT I think about the portals spamming dozens of npcs if you're not careful, I think about the room before the final boss; yes, that's a higher step in difficulty. When I think about LoL all I can think about is pathetic adds having nothing but telegraphed AoE damage, and when you're out of red and slightly away from npcs nothing wrong will ever happen.