I'd love to have some... Player HOUSING!

mh0ram

Any ETA on guild housing? STO was ahead of CO, so I'm making an assumption here that it will be on or around the second anniversary.

Any way of speeding this portion up some? We need an AD sink in this game bad, and I for one would be more than happy to pour millions of AD into guild housing.

You know as well as I do what this did for the economy in your other games, let's speed up this process yes?

neberwinter

Seconded.....

sockmunkey

There are a lot of players not even in guilds. As it stands, there is little benefit or reason to even join one. I don't see how the addition of guild housing will change that. Id personally rather not see content pushed back, altered, or delayed simply to add in a system that I see little value in.

zshikara

I want player housing. I don't mind helping my guild out, in fact I'd definitely help them out, but I want a home I can call my own and decorate to my heart's content.

crazymikee

Guild or even individual player housing would be a big undertaking but more then worth it in the end, with a few customizable things you can do with them it would add a huge new thing to do in the game

mh0ram

sockmunkey wrote: »

There are a lot of players not even in guilds. As it stands, there is little benefit or reason to even join one. I don't see how the addition of guild housing will change that. Id personally rather not see content pushed back, altered, or delayed simply to add in a system that I see little value in.

It's really quite simple. If they follow STO's base format, or something similar:
Everyone contribute to projects, that rank up your guild house.
The higher the rank, the better gear you can get from your guild house.
You have to continually stock assets to the guild house vendors in order for items to be purchased.
Contributing to the guild house projects earns you guild marks, which is a currency used to purchase said items.

Long story short, good gear, great AD sink and something fun to work on.

There's your reason for being in a guild, and how the implementation of guild housing will change the economy. It has been stated that it will be implemented in NW, it's just a matter of time. Pushing this up on the agenda will make this a longer lived game, earn them more money and make us overall a happier player base.

Any other questions?

charononus

magenubbie wrote: »

love it. Said it before and I'll keep saying it. Guild housing and personal. People will gladly pay the rent of the place. Or quest for the materials to decorate/upgrade it.
It's not only a good AD sink, but it greatly adds to NW gameplay. They have the tech, they made this for CO. It won't fix all the problems in NW, but it sure would make a whole lot of players very happy. Who knows, after mod4?

Please explain this. The only housing I've ever seen in mmo's was purely decorative with maybe a tiny bit of extra storage on it, about half the size of the bank. I understand some people like the cosmetics of it, but how does it do anything for gameplay?

zshikara

charononus wrote: »

Please explain this. The only housing I've ever seen in mmo's was purely decorative with maybe a tiny bit of extra storage on it, about half the size of the bank. I understand some people like the cosmetics of it, but how does it do anything for gameplay?

Have you ever played Everquest 2? The guild and personal housing in that game are really well detailed and can add a lot of playtime to the game. Also the player housing in wildstar is a good example of how it can provide in game benefits to your character.

zebular

I just want housing in general! being homeless in the Realms is dangerous! Indeed! MMhmmmm...

charononus

zshikara wrote: »

Have you ever played Everquest 2? The guild and personal housing in that game are really well detailed and can add a lot of playtime to the game. Also the player housing in wildstar is a good example of how it can provide in game benefits to your character.

Nope I was working 70hrs a week plus a newborn in the eq2 time period so I had no game time back then, and I haven't checked out wildstar. My experience with guild/personal housing has been lotro and rift. Rift is cosmetic only, and lotro is mostly cosmetic with a little bit of account storage.

asmodeus451

I think they're holding off on this cuz they dont want to make the same mistake they made in STO, making guild membership basically essential for progression.

STO devs have spent alot of their time trying to correct that mistake (making Reputation and Crafted gear as good as Fleet stuff). I dont imagine thats a process the NW devs want to repeat

angrysprite

CO had Lairs before STO had Fleet Starbases (though you always had your Starship Bridge). STO didn't have Fleet Starbases until, what was it... 18, 24 months old? Neverwinter is only just over a year old. I'm sure they will have Guild Halls (or something) eventually, but right now they must concentrate on main play-content like new campaigns, zones, and whatnot.

I'll wager by this time next year if we don;t have Guid Halls we'll at least know by announcement what the roadmap plan is for when they'll come.

asmodeus451 wrote: »

I think they're holding off on this cuz they dont want to make the same mistake they made in STO, making guild membership basically essential for progression.

STO devs have spent alot of their time trying to correct that mistake (making Reputation and Crafted gear as good as Fleet stuff). I dont imagine thats a process the NW devs want to repeat

Agreed. The crafting system in STO was lackluster to begin with. The new crafting system just released is the THIRD ITERATION and as a Lifetime Member of STO it still burns my buttt that the best gear and Starships can only be had through Fleet Vendors - especially after spending a lot of cash on Zen Market starships. This is plain BS. Better than anything you can craft, even better than anything you can buy in the Zen market (!!!)

Hence I've lost my enthusiasm for it. If the gear were *equal* (even in different ways) okay, but no, it's like buying T1 Gear in Zen Market, but must be in Guild to obtain T2/2.5 Gear in Neverwinter. How do you feel after spending 2500 Zen on that T1 Gear now?

This has left a bad taste in my mouth with STO and why I no longer spend any money in the STO Zen Market - even my free Zen (at something like 8700 now?) I'm all-in on Neverwinter for the time being, STO is a "I'm bored, guess Ill do STO for ten minutes" mode.

Anyway, I still believe in Cryptic Studios (we have a relationship, I guess) and why all my enthusiasm is now in Neverwinter. @Devs of Neverwinter - never, *EVER* make in-game gear better than anything you sell in the Zen Market, ever. Equal? Okay, but never better. And it's okay by me if Zen Market stuff is never better than in-game stuff.

Sorry for the rant. OT: We'll have something eventually, we just need to be patient.

nemesao

Well i would suggest doing it like DDO, make guild house (in DDO there are guild ships) where you can level it 1 to 100, the better your guild level is, the bigger house/ship you can buy, and more slots to put like vendors/actioneer/bank/etc and buffs like +1 to cha, +1 to str, and on higher levels there are +2 buffs, that last for 1 hour even if you die. So it will make sure you have to be on your house/ship every 1 hour to refresh your buffs/sell stuff/buy stuff.

kolatmaster

I'd love to have Private/Guild Housing, it would be phenomenal in many ways.

ladysummera

I also would spend real money on a guild house. It would also be a great way to add content for players...

zebular

Some thoughts I've had since Alpha on housing:

. . . The Foundry System could be incorporated into the ability for players to design and place houses in new, "Community" zones in Neverwinter and other settlements we've reached. Similar to how LotRO does their instances housing community areas. I'd like for the exterior and interior to be seamless so we could see the outiside and people going by through or windows, porches or even house grounds. So like, mix UO's and LotRO's where you have Housing Instances but the housing instances are built on plots with foundry like tools with no transition zoning going inside or out.

. . . Some Zen or AD things could include "Pocket Dimension Rooms" where you get to place a type of secret doorway or transition of some sort that goes into a private instance that you can set privacy settings for, in regards to visitors and friends. Then allow us to customize those special interiors with foundry like tools.

. . . Also, we could buy chests starting with ones for gold, then better ones for AD and the best ones for Zen. We could then get "blueprints" for special furnature design unlocks in our "housing foundry tools" and oh, the possibilities are almost endless!

. . . This could also be a good Gold and AD Sink. Make the smallest plots cost Gold to buy and Upkeep while the best and biggest plots cost AD to buy and upkeep. Special plots and housing designs could even be sold in Wondrous Bazaar and Zen Shop!

. . . Having such a housing design system would then open up for Community Events, Guild Meetings, Arenas, Official Design Contests, and so much more! Plus, and most importantly, all my 20-some characters would finally stop sleeping on the streets of Neverwinter! I'm sure Lord Neverember would love that and then enjoy taxing us (housing upkeep = gold & ad sinks).

reiwulf

I completely agree with Zebular on mostly everything.

sockmunkey

mh0ram wrote: »

It's really quite simple. If they follow STO's base format, or something similar:
Everyone contribute to projects, that rank up your guild house.
The higher the rank, the better gear you can get from your guild house.
You have to continually stock assets to the guild house vendors in order for items to be purchased.
Contributing to the guild house projects earns you guild marks, which is a currency used to purchase said items.

Long story short, good gear, great AD sink and something fun to work on.

There's your reason for being in a guild, and how the implementation of guild housing will change the economy. It has been stated that it will be implemented in NW, it's just a matter of time. Pushing this up on the agenda will make this a longer lived game, earn them more money and make us overall a happier player base.

Any other questions?

So basically a system that renders small guilds and solo players uncompetitive, increases gear creep to make the best gear in the game for no other reason then to give guilds a reason to exist, and puts it on a treadmill that requires both cash and grinding.

I still remain unconvinced. As others have pointed out STOs system didnt give everyone warm fuzzies. Repeating the same mistakes, just seems foolish.

valwryn

Can I just have a Teepee instead?

juleadream

Wouldn't mind player/Guild housing.... I think Sgt. Knox is tired of me and my alts sleeping on his sofa

charononus

juleadream wrote: »

Wouldn't mind player/Guild housing.... I think Sgt. Knox is tired of me and my alts sleeping on his sofa

I say just kill a hobo in Neverwinter and take their doorway.

reshomiiii

How about they fix existing issues b4 adding something purely for vanity

charononus

reshomiiii wrote: »

How about they fix existing issues b4 adding something purely for vanity

The idea is that this would fix some of the issues with the game, namely the economy by providing a well used AD sink. I'm not sold that I would want to use it, as I don't do a lot of vanity stuff, and can't see paying for it myself. However it could work and it is something to think about.

vasdamas

I wouldn't still consider joining any drama even if they added something that worths trying hard :P

charononus

vasdamas wrote: »

I wouldn't still consider joining any drama even if they added something that worths trying hard :P

Google translate issues?

zebular

sockmunkey wrote: »

So basically a system that renders small guilds and solo players uncompetitive, increases gear creep to make the best gear in the game for no other reason then to give guilds a reason to exist, and puts it on a treadmill that requires both cash and grinding.

I still remain unconvinced. As others have pointed out STOs system didnt give everyone warm fuzzies. Repeating the same mistakes, just seems foolish.

. . . I truly hope we never have a housing system like STO's Starbases and Starships. I remember ranting wildly about it back when... and over yonder... A system like that completely alienates a portion of the game's player-base from being able to enjoy it, as it did me. Nay, I'd like to see a normal housing system that allows a player to create their own houses and enjoy them without being limited by other players and timegating -- a system as I stated in my first reply above. Indeed.

zebular

magenubbie wrote: »

Never played STO myself. But if they roughly follow up on what they did in CO with personal lairs, with or without a physical entrance door in PE, I think a lot of people would already be very happy. If they are smart about it they can even use it as an AD sink. Rent, furniture (possibly with the help of professions or quests), access to storage space.. all are things people would be happy to spend some AD on.

Indeed. I do enjoy my lairs in Champions Online, for sure. They do leave me with a wanton desire for more though, as I've experienced the best of player housing in other MMOs, so I suppose I am forever spoiled in that regard!

Starships in STO are very similar to CO's Personal Lairs, just actually a tad better in my opinion. So, really as I think about it, I shouldn't have mentioned STO's personal housing in my post above, as it is pretty cool in itself. The Guild Housing, a.k.a. Starbases and Embassies, leave much to be desired for me. From my experience with them, they only benefit extremely large guilds with tons of resources while leaving small guilds in a state of constant grind if they wish to complete the tasks to improve and add cosmetics to their Starbases and effects from Embassies. While the graphics of it all are wonderful in their own right, the underlying mechanics of how Starbases all works together is what leaves me with distaste. Indeed.

I've been long hoping for another MMO that I can say has the best Housing System and while several have came very close or met it but ended up folding up due to other reasons, since Neverwinter have The Foundry, I have truly hoped Neverwinter would have the best housing system. As Neverwinter already has in place some fantastic underlying mechanics for exterior and interior customization: The Foundry.

sockmunkey

Honestly, STOs bridges paled compared to CO's lairs. The bridges were simply static maps. The only thing you could really customize were the trophy displays. They got a little better when they added the other ship sections like engineering and the lounge. But even then you could only choose between large, medium, or a small map.

CO went the extra mile, by allowing elements within each lair to be changed. And as a bonus, you could mix and match elements from similar packs. So if you really wanted the waterfall from the Natural cave to dress up your Tech cave. Simply buy both and mix and match as you see fit. Sadly, like most of CO, the lairs started off great. Then they simply stopped making anymore and left the entire system half finished and neglected.

They say third time is the charm. Id like to believe that. But so far i've seen Cryptic try personal housing twice and both times it ended up disappointing. I see no point in trying to get them to rush headlong into number three.

zebular

sockmunkey wrote: »

Honestly, STOs bridges paled compared to CO's lairs. The bridges were simply static maps. The only thing you could really customize were the trophy displays. They got a little better when they added the other ship sections like engineering and the lounge. But even then you could only choose between large, medium, or a small map.

CO went the extra mile, by allowing elements within each lair to be changed. And as a bonus, you could mix and match elements from similar packs. So if you really wanted the waterfall from the Natural cave to dress up your Tech cave. Simply buy both and mix and match as you see fit. Sadly, like most of CO, the lairs started off great. Then they simply stopped making anymore and left the entire system half finished and neglected.

They say third time is the charm. Id like to believe that. But so far i've seen Cryptic try personal housing twice and both times it ended up disappointing. I see no point in trying to get them to rush headlong into number three.

Indeed. After reading that, I must admit - I am extremely more partial or my Star Trek fanboi-ism than I am about my Comic Collection (huge Marvel fan; I love anything Jean Grey/Phoenix... Infinity Gauntlet too...)... I mean, I still geek out every now and then when I realize that we have our Communicators and Data Pads... just like while growing up wishing for it as I seen it on TV! Seriously! *eyes his kindle and ipod and geeks out some more*

So that's probably why I still like STO's Sharships better than CO's. None-the-less, you are right - CO's Lairs are WAY more customizable.

bazgc

sockmunkey wrote: »

Honestly, STOs bridges paled compared to CO's lairs. The bridges were simply static maps.

Some of those poorly designed at that. In particularly, one was designed so that if the captain were to fall off their chair they would break their neck since the chair was basically on top of a plinth.

Special bridges like the Odyssey looked amazing though.

Back OT.

As things stand at the moment you're a homeless adventurer with the option of joining up with other homeless adventurers in a club (Guild).

I understand why people don't want something like the starbases where you unlock end game equipment. As a minimum I would like to see some way of adding in a basic guild hall so that your Guild has something they can:

1) Call home,
2) Have more than 5 people (foundry limit) in it a given time
3) Work towards improving together

This would add to the immersion and mean that you could hold a Guild meeting or the like away from public areas. It wouldn't necessarily need to have a huge array of features, but something to add immersion would be nice. If they made it along the lines of a Keep then they could add defend the keep skirmishes/instances like a cross between the instances in STO and Crossroad Keep in NWN2.

sockmunkey

zebular wrote: »

So that's probably why I still like STO's Sharships better than CO's. None-the-less, you are right - CO's Lairs are WAY more customizable.

I think STOs bridges still work, simply because they are detailed and very well done. Sure they are static, but they are beautiful and there are tons of them to choose from. Even the most fickle person can find a bridge layout they like. And that alone makes them stand out. The choices. It would be hard to be impressed with Neverwinters mounts, if we only had a scattered few as choices.

CO's had promise, but the project was shelved much to soon. Functionality that was promised or implied, never happened. To this day, there are still doors in each lair, meant for things, that will never function. And with only 5 types of lairs, with only a few thematic choices each. Made it really hard for people to find the one choice they could really relate to. In a game where the ENTIRE concept was "Make the hero you want to be" the limited choices was a total disappointment.

If Neverwinter is going to avoid the problems of the past. Housing needs to be something more then simply tacked on. It needs the promise that CO offered with the depth, detail, and array of choices that STO offers. And that is not something that is going to happen over night.