Here are IMO the changes that I think would be more than fair for CWs.
Control Wizard: Assailing Force: This feat now benefits from your damage bonuses. It is classified as Arcane damage for purposes of calculating bonuses.
Control Wizard: Assailing Force: This feat has a 15% chance to trigger upon the CAST of any At will, encounter, or daily power. (NO ICD).
Control Wizard: Assailing Force: This feat now deals JUST 800% of your weapon damage.
Control Wizard: Assailing Force: This feat is now respects Damage Resistance and tenacity.
Not perfect, but close? Im not a CW, just trying to think of what would make this fair AND appealing for a capstone in both PVE and PVP. An ICD means not good in PVE, penetrating all DR means not fair in PVP. Proccing off damage = not fair in PVP, however proccing off the CAST of a power could work? Since it takes into consideration DR, maybe boosting it to JUST 800% weapon damage makes it more appealing. In PVE this would again be a buff, and in PVP is a nerf - which is honestly needed...
A pure chance on cast I think seems fair. 15% means roughly 1 in 6/7 casts will trigger the power. Since it procs from at wills that could be pretty decent. Would still only affect 1 target but I would think the time it takes to cast 6-7 attacks on average is what? 6-7 seconds?
So for DPS calculations its roughly 6400 dmg over 7 seconds = close to 1000 DPS on 1 target. Now that it factors in DR however, in PVP itll be much less than this, depending on debuffs and ARP. Fair?
The math on 6400 damage in PVP:
(btw since its all multiplicative order doesnt matter).
800% - (20% tenacity) = 640% For pvp purposes to factor in tenacity.
so roughly 5,120 damage that NOW respects DR. On average lets assume 25% ARP, versus say, a tank class (GWF/DC/GF) itll deal like 4,000 damage close to every 6-7 seconds? In PVP as well, this can be harder since you will have kite quite a bit more but free casting this could be very dangerous - definitely something to try and avoid and worthy of a Capstone?
On squishier targets itll probably hit for full damage. TBH it may even be too strong so I could see even 10% @ 1000% weapon damage (damage buff but proc chance reduction).... Just want to get the wheels turning
Control Wizard: Orb of Imposition: This class feature now works as expected and increases control durations by 25%.
Control Wizard: Orb of Imposition: Ranking this class feature up now grants 25% longer control durations.
Can it also enhance the frozen state of targets so that the frozen state doesn't break so fast because of damage? In dungeons, frozen mobs nearly instant break from the state because of our party members' attacks. That's frustrating.
FEEDBACk
After tenacity patch control wizards needed better control skills to survive but now. In pvp you gave them long prone with ice knife, shard, longer duration for all that control effects, and thats not all. you gave them assailant force and shield. All in one spec. Also severe reaction makes it impossible to combo on a control wizard which is ok but you just cant have everything at once. Remember this is a feedback based on only pvp assessment. I hope you see the problem here. I am not trying to troll but all of you need to pvp with your control wizards and find out what i am saying.
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ironzerg79Member, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,942Arc User
edited July 2014
Here's some parses from a couple encounters this weekend. The first is from our run at normal Longmauth. Big takeaway here is how much damage Assailant Force accounts for. This is using a MoF Thaum build.
Second is from the dragon fight in Neverdeath. Again, Assailant is accounting for a lot of damage.
So I know the immediate reaction is "OMG! OP!" but when you consider we had our damage dialed back about 30-40%, seeing Assaliant account for 20-30% of the damage (combined with another 10%ish damage increase from Creeping Frost/Warped Magics), we're at least close to being near our pre-nerf damage with the Thaumaturge spec, which from what I'm gathering from the Devs is meant to be the DPS tree for CW's.
That makes the Thaumaturge and the Oppressor trees very competitive with each other. I still think the Renegade tree needs a little more love by making Chaos Magic and Phantasmal Destruction team buffs (and possibly Chilling Advantage). If you did that, I think the CW would be in a pretty good spot for Module 4.
So I know the immediate reaction is "OMG! OP!" but when you consider we had our damage dialed back about 30-40%, seeing Assaliant account for 20-30% of the damage (combined with another 10%ish damage increase from Creeping Frost/Warped Magics), we're at least close to being near our pre-nerf damage with the Thaumaturge spec, which from what I'm gathering from the Devs is meant to be the DPS tree for CW's.
With the only exception that this doesen't require any skill at all.
It's just an at-will spamming easy mode waiting on the next proc.
I am indeed a cw since beta and i hope they would cut this <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> and buff the encounters back in a moderate way tbh, but that's just my opinion.
I am happy that they are trying to give us some damage back, but they are doing it the wrong way.
With the only exception that this doesen't require any skill at all.
It's just an at-will spamming easy mode waiting on the next proc.
I am indeed a cw since beta and i hope they would cut this <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> and buff the encounters back in a moderate way tbh, but that's just my opinion.
I am happy that they are trying to give us some damage back, but they are doing it the wrong way.
I agree, each path is getting easy mode, so give Renegade Shield Pulse CAPSTONE so we have easy mode too.
Here's some parses from a couple encounters this weekend. The first is from our run at normal Longmauth. Big takeaway here is how much damage Assailant Force accounts for. This is using a MoF Thaum build.
*snip
So I know the immediate reaction is "OMG! OP!" but when you consider we had our damage dialed back about 30-40%, seeing Assaliant account for 20-30% of the damage (combined with another 10%ish damage increase from Creeping Frost/Warped Magics), we're at least close to being near our pre-nerf damage with the Thaumaturge spec, which from what I'm gathering from the Devs is meant to be the DPS tree for CW's.
One major thing to note is that both the Lostmauth dungeon and the Dragon fights are primarily single-target fights. There's very little trash or mobs of 15+ enemies to give much AoE damage. That's where the majority of CW damage comes from. Running around Dwarven Valley Assailing Force accounts for about 11% of my damage. The reality is CW's are not at all close to being near pre-nerf damage even with Assailant, Creeping Frost/Warped Magics on mobs. However we are exceeding the single target damage we are able to do on live.
i agree, based on the test i made, assaillant is right around actually in % term of damage that other final gift give to other dps way for other class. the damage cursor is or perfect or near to perfect.
For PVP is the same, things are near to perfect and CW have now real chance to win and not the combo perfect play/luck (for crit)/bad play for oponen to hope a 1vs1 win. It of course a big change as player now canno't simply run on CW and get a free kill most of the time.
If you use shield on tab, damage done from CW dps way are not on the top damage. without counting assaillant the 3 individual spell you can put can give around 4k damage each on my actual lvl(15k gs lvl 9 spell plague enchant), the only actual real damage spell is lighting storm, and this spell is so hard to use in pvp that he will probably miss 50% or more.
So to resume, i want to thanks DEV that listen community because even if change are not finished, finally i can have some hope for my CW to be playable for V4. adjustment and cursor are not far from perfect in every aspect that can be done (at least for thauma and opressor way).
And for those who think CW do two much damage in pvp with assaillant, i disagree with them, the way things are in actual statment are good because to make it simply all dominant are more or less based on high PV/regen/defense while pure dps build have real hard time in pvp. the fact that assaillant do not care of defense and is hp based damage clearly will put CW stronger against that kind of player while we will be more vulnerable against pure dps player.
if i take my actual damage with my actual state (without counting defense nor crit) here what it give
tab;ray of enfeeblement(6k), other spell ice conduct (thauma way 4-5k), entrangling force (4-5k), chill strike (6k) or repel
i start with ice conduct (4k but all other spell will do +30-40% damage for 6 second)+ ray of enfeblement * 2 (first shot +15-20% more damage second same: mean 8-9k for first ray and 10-11k for second) + entrangling force 8-9k + chill strike 10-11k: total = 35k damage without counting any defense.
on previous (let count assaillant grant once every turn that is more than reality but it will help to count)
let start with ray of enfeeblement 4K, chill strike 4 k and let say icy terrain 4-5k) it give 4k +5k +5 k= 14K damage + let say 8-16 k(for a 20-40k pv player) from assaillant = 26 kdamage. (assaillant do not get buff spell but are not affected by defense)
now let apply a Wizard defense full pve (25% defense) in first case you do 35 * 0.75 = 27k around
second case you do 14k *0.75 + 8k = around 19k
second let take a 50% defense 30 k pv player.
35 * 0.5 = 17.5 k damage
in previous.
14k*0.5 +12k = 19 k
if i goes higher pv and / or defense, the higher it will goes in favor of the new system.
So yes i think it is good and it will give more opportunity for other kind of build than pv/regen/def build.
Every kind of build now will be able to end against build where they are weaker. more variety and no dominat build way
One major thing to note is that both the Lostmauth dungeon and the Dragon fights are primarily single-target fights. There's very little trash or mobs of 15+ enemies to give much AoE damage. That's where the majority of CW damage comes from. Running around Dwarven Valley Assailing Force accounts for about 11% of my damage. The reality is CW's are not at all close to being near pre-nerf damage even with Assailant, Creeping Frost/Warped Magics on mobs. However we are exceeding the single target damage we are able to do on live.
The first parse was from the entire dungeon. And there's plenty of 5-10 mob packs along the way (although it is a relatively short dungeon). But I would hardly call the dungeon fights "primarily" single target.
EDIT: And yes, it was only one run. I'll parse more to see if I get things to even out more. But with Assailant, more hits equals more chances to proc it, which is probably the difference.
What build are you running where Assailing Force is only 11%?
EDIT2: I'll also add running a dungeon is very different from running around open world, but maybe tonight I'll take some time to run my build around DV and see what I get.
Hey guys, we are making a small handful of changes to fix a couple of things we have noticed that are a tad out of line as well as give Renegades more party utility.
Control Wizard: Assailing Force: This feat is now half as effective on players.
Control Wizard: Freeze: This hold no longer breaks from damage. It is now only resisted with Control Resist.
Control Wizard: Nightmare Wizardry: This feat has switched places with Energy Recovery and now requires 10 points in Renegade to access it.
Control Wizard: Energy Recovery: This feat has switched places with Nightmare Wizardry and now requires 5 points in Renegade to access it.
Control Wizard: Chaos Magic: Now applies to yourself and allies within 50' when triggering.
Control Wizard: Nightmare Wizardry: This feat has switched places with Energy Recovery and now requires 10 points in Renegade to access it.
Control Wizard: Energy Recovery: This feat has switched places with Nightmare Wizardry and now requires 5 points in Renegade to access it.
Feedback: Nightmare Wizardry
Very sad to see this change. Yet, at the same time it is entirely appropriate. With the best renegade feat only requiring 5 points to access it Thaumaturge CW's have been able to "double-dip" and get the best of both trees for too long. It's what made the Thaumaturge tree so popular. Now I'm actually facing a hard decision between the three trees.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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ironzerg79Member, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,942Arc User
Hey guys, we are making a small handful of changes to fix a couple of things we have noticed that are a tad out of line as well as give Renegades more party utility.
Control Wizard: Assailing Force: This feat is now half as effective on players.
Control Wizard: Freeze: This hold no longer breaks from damage. It is now only resisted with Control Resist.
Control Wizard: Nightmare Wizardry: This feat has switched places with Energy Recovery and now requires 10 points in Renegade to access it.
Control Wizard: Energy Recovery: This feat has switched places with Nightmare Wizardry and now requires 5 points in Renegade to access it.
Control Wizard: Chaos Magic: Now applies to yourself and allies within 50' when triggering.
These changes should hit PTS this week.
Thank you all for your continued feedback!
Chris "Gentleman Crush" Meyer
Fantastic changes! No one should ever doubt that you guys are responsive to player feedback.
Making the decision to adjust damage for PvE and PvP on Assailing Force was bold, and the correct way to handle it. CW's should be able to deliver on damage in PvE if desired, while still be competitive in PvP. I'm glad to see you didn't over-nerf one side to compensate for the other.
The freeze fix is outstanding, as Oppressor was still a bit lackluster giving how quickly Freeze broke in dungeons under focused group fire. I tested an Oppressor build yesterday, and could hardly notice things freezing. This is a great fix.
And making Chaos Magic a 50' aura is a great buff for Renegades, and gives that tree a unique group-centric role.
"Meanwhile in the moderator's lounge..."
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ironzerg79Member, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,942Arc User
Very sad to see this change. Yet, at the same time it is entirely appropriate. With the best renegade feat only requiring 5 points to access it Thaumaturge CW's have been able to "double-dip" and get the best of both trees for too long. It's what made the Thaumaturge tree so popular. Now I'm actually facing a hard decision between the three trees.
I agree. Ten points in Renegade to get Nightmare Wizardry was essentially mandatory in any build, as the increase to personal and group DPS was significant. Seeing it basically reserved for Renegades only is a great boost to that tree. With Chaos Magic being a group buff, there's a lot of compelling reasons to run a Renegade build, especially if you run with more than one CW on a regular basis.
"Meanwhile in the moderator's lounge..."
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gorakasulMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 24Arc User
edited July 2014
Feedback: Nightmare Wizardry
While I appreciate putting this talent into tier 3, I strongly disagree with swapping it for Energy Recovery. There is no valuable tier 2 talent now that I would consider picking because both Energy Recovery and Unrestrained Chaos are terrible for any PvE build.
Picking between talents that are the least worse is never a fun place to be in. I'd like to have a good tier 2 talent that I could pick instead...
How about you swap it with Phantasmal Destruction instead? That would solve the problem just as well without making the progression through the Renegade tree awkward...
Love the change to freeze, thanks for that if works correctly.
Now rework shard of endless avalanche on tab for pvp to make it hit more than 1/2 k crit (less than almost any at-will) and i'm done with this thread.
Hey guys, we are making a small handful of changes to fix a couple of things we have noticed that are a tad out of line as well as give Renegades more party utility.
Control Wizard: Assailing Force: This feat is now half as effective on players.
Control Wizard: Freeze: This hold no longer breaks from damage. It is now only resisted with Control Resist.
Control Wizard: Nightmare Wizardry: This feat has switched places with Energy Recovery and now requires 10 points in Renegade to access it.
Control Wizard: Energy Recovery: This feat has switched places with Nightmare Wizardry and now requires 5 points in Renegade to access it.
Control Wizard: Chaos Magic: Now applies to yourself and allies within 50' when triggering.
These changes should hit PTS this week.
Thank you all for your continued feedback!
Chris "Gentleman Crush" Meyer
thanks for info and change, i agree for the renegade change of order so the nightmare wizardry will become a personnal very good for renegade way as he will be no more accessible for other way.
assailing force: need to be tested but well i just hope this will remain a good way to shoot big hp/regen/high def player. As i said in a previous post i think the power is especially good for pvp as he specialise to shot big hp/regen/def player while he become weaker facing dps player that are more oriented on damage. It offering a good possibility in pvp terms for as there won't be anymore one kind of build that will be the king in every case
While I appreciate putting this talent into tier 3, I strongly disagree with swapping it for Energy Recovery. There is no valuable tier 2 talent now that I would consider picking because both Energy Recovery and Unrestrained Chaos are terrible for any PvE build.
Picking between talents that are the least worse is never a fun place to be in. I'd like to have a good tier 2 talent that I could pick instead...
How about you swap it with Phantasmal Destruction instead? That would solve the problem just as well without making the progression through the Renegade tree awkward...
And perhaps it's time to rework Maestrom of chaos (lot of post about it) to make it worthwhile with the feat that goes with it...
Nobody would think to choose Unrestrained Chaos because nobody uses Malestrom of Chaos.
Chaotic neutral - so i can do whatever the hell i want
thanks for info and change, i agree for the renegade change of order so the nightmare wizardry will become a personnal very good for renegade way as he will be no more accessible for other way.
assailing force: need to be tested but well i just hope this will remain a good way to shoot big hp/regen/high def player. As i said in a previous post i think the power is especially good for pvp as he specialise to shot big hp/regen/def player while he become weaker facing dps player that are more oriented on damage. It offering a good possibility in pvp terms for as there won't be anymore one kind of build that will be the king in every case
800% of weapon damage vs 15% life.
at 800 damage, thats 6400. 15% life on most players even 40k HP = 6000.
The % of life is the limiting factor for PVP. Weapon damage is for PVE.
The easier change to this could have been to either:
1) Let it respect DR instead of bypassing it.
2) Reduce the % of max HP it can hit for. Since in PVP itll almost always proc off HP and not weapon damage.
Cutting it in half, is yet to be tested. Im always leery of any class that has abilities that ignore DR, for obvious reasons (see tenebrous or shocking exec).
at 800 damage, thats 6400. 15% life on most players even 40k HP = 6000.
The % of life is the limiting factor for PVP. Weapon damage is for PVE.
The easier change to this could have been to either:
1) Let it respect DR instead of bypassing it.
2) Reduce the % of max HP it can hit for. Since in PVP itll almost always proc off HP and not weapon damage.
Cutting it in half, is yet to be tested. Im always leery of any class that has abilities that ignore DR, for obvious reasons (see tenebrous or shocking exec).
i think we won't be agree on that i do not think that defensive build with lot hp/regen/def ability should always be better vs the same build but where player decide to put more point in offensive stat. but that actually the case. ANd for that, i think assaillant is good answer and will lead to more variety in pvp build. because well CW will be weaker against full dps player and will do less damage against them. and based on your tag, you seems to exactly be the kind of player i'm referring that want a semi god build and that want to have upper hand in every kind of aspect with his build. CW builds should be weaker against long range build like HR or invisible build like TR that are hard striker but on opposite should have upper hand against melee build like gwf or gf that rely more on def. on same way GF GF should have the upper hand against HR and gwf. and GWF should be stronger against HR and TR. and on that one should be agood upper hand while the second a little advantage
Enchants on weapons cause a second image of the weapon to appear,making cws run around with two orbs hovering above them. Also please fix the orbs angle so they face to the front like they used to rather than sideways,that they now do.I will attach a few images i captured while running around at preview,so you can see the bug firsthand.To tell you the truth that's one change to cws i really dislike.
reagenlionel1Member, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited July 2014
Is Storm Pillar's critting fixed? (smaller bolts arent critting when main bolt crits)
and is Sudden Storm still getting its absurd/nonsensical damage decrease? (the only spell that doesnt have a secondary effect and sole purpose is dealing damage but difficult to execute)
Hey guys, we are making a small handful of changes to fix a couple of things we have noticed that are a tad out of line as well as give Renegades more party utility.
Control Wizard: Assailing Force: This feat is now half as effective on players.
Control Wizard: Freeze: This hold no longer breaks from damage. It is now only resisted with Control Resist.
Control Wizard: Nightmare Wizardry: This feat has switched places with Energy Recovery and now requires 10 points in Renegade to access it.
Control Wizard: Energy Recovery: This feat has switched places with Nightmare Wizardry and now requires 5 points in Renegade to access it.
Control Wizard: Chaos Magic: Now applies to yourself and allies within 50' when triggering.
These changes should hit PTS this week.
Thank you all for your continued feedback!
Chris "Gentleman Crush" Meyer
Feedback:
a) Moving the Nightmare Wizardy feat is a good idea, but replacing it with an
essentially worthless feat (for pve) is a handicap for the Renegade tree. I now will
have another 5 points I will have to sink into this tree which will provide little value.
This makes both of the tier 2 feats garbage for the pve wizards.
b) Changing the Chaos Magic capstone: I'm disappointed in the Renegade tree
going from a critical hit/dps tree to a party utility (or party buf) feat tree. You
should probably rename the tree, because Renegade will no longer have much to
do with it (hey, there's a reason to be classed as Renegade, and this has very little
to do with it).
c) MaelStorm of Chaos - as a defining daily spell in the spell storm branch of wizards,
this spell has nothing to recommend wasting skill points on in pve, much less prohibitly
rare feat points.
Feedback:
a) Moving the Nightmare Wizardy feat is a good idea, but replacing it with an
essentially worthless feat (for pve) is a handicap for the Renegade tree. I now will
have another 5 points I will have to sink into this tree which will provide little value.
This makes both of the tier 2 feats garbage for the pve wizards.
b) Changing the Chaos Magic capstone: I'm disappointed in the Renegade tree
going from a critical hit/dps tree to a party utility (or party buf) feat tree. You
should probably rename the tree, because Renegade will no longer have much to
do with it (hey, there's a reason to be classed as Renegade, and this has very little
to do with it).
c) MaelStorm of Chaos - as a defining daily spell in the spell storm branch of wizards,
this spell has nothing to recommend wasting skill points on in pve, much less prohibitly
rare feat points.
I wholeheartedly agree. It was a good idea to move it up but Energy Recovery is useless to Renegades as we will be slotting and using magic missile instead of chilling cloud based on the capstone. Like previously suggested, making PD as the capstone, so from the top row: critical power, chaos magic, masterful arcane theft, nightmare wizardry, capstone: Phantasmal Destruction, bottom row unchanged. Getting a higher crit severity goes in line with being a Renegade and to me that is the most appropriate capstone. Chaos magic shouldn't be party wide especially when move to the lower tier.
If you are going ahead and moving forward with the proposed arrangement, I find it hard to believe anyone would spec for renegade and the name doesn't match nor the description like I been saying all along. Maybe rename it Distinguished Wizard for half DC/half Wizard
Control Wizard: Freeze: This hold no longer breaks from damage. It is now only resisted with Control Resist.
Control Wizard: Nightmare Wizardry: This feat has switched places with Energy Recovery and now requires 10 points in Renegade to access it.
Control Wizard: Chaos Magic: Now applies to yourself and allies within 50' when triggering.
1. Glad to see the change with freeze. Will make freeze much more beneficial in PVE.
2. PVE - Devastated to see nightmare wizardry moving further into the renegade tree, but I understand with the double dipping. However as a CW, combat advantage isn't exactly easy to obtain without this feat. The extra damage from combat advantage (nightmare wizardry) helps the CW the most when having to take care of the army of adds. Again, if we loose control and can't kill them fast enough, we die very easy.
Sadly as of right now, the bottom row of renegade is pretty much useless for SS PVE.
Energy recovery is really ???. I use chilling cloud and even that is no where a desirable feat, let alone wasting 5 points on. That's what lifesteal is for. (PVE)
Unrestrained chaos, well no one uses maelstrom.
Reaper's touch, is possibility, since I zip around a lot, but still for 5 points, I'd rather use it for something that provides a constant or guaranteed buff.
Chilling advantage.. well there are some other class features that could be slotted for better dps, primarily storm spell and evocation with the current changes on preview.
3. Makes renegade slightly appealing, though the name of the tree isn't exactly fitting.
Comments
Control Wizard: Assailing Force: This feat now benefits from your damage bonuses. It is classified as Arcane damage for purposes of calculating bonuses.
Control Wizard: Assailing Force: This feat has a 15% chance to trigger upon the CAST of any At will, encounter, or daily power. (NO ICD).
Control Wizard: Assailing Force: This feat now deals JUST 800% of your weapon damage.
Control Wizard: Assailing Force: This feat is now respects Damage Resistance and tenacity.
Not perfect, but close? Im not a CW, just trying to think of what would make this fair AND appealing for a capstone in both PVE and PVP. An ICD means not good in PVE, penetrating all DR means not fair in PVP. Proccing off damage = not fair in PVP, however proccing off the CAST of a power could work? Since it takes into consideration DR, maybe boosting it to JUST 800% weapon damage makes it more appealing. In PVE this would again be a buff, and in PVP is a nerf - which is honestly needed...
A pure chance on cast I think seems fair. 15% means roughly 1 in 6/7 casts will trigger the power. Since it procs from at wills that could be pretty decent. Would still only affect 1 target but I would think the time it takes to cast 6-7 attacks on average is what? 6-7 seconds?
So for DPS calculations its roughly 6400 dmg over 7 seconds = close to 1000 DPS on 1 target. Now that it factors in DR however, in PVP itll be much less than this, depending on debuffs and ARP. Fair?
The math on 6400 damage in PVP:
(btw since its all multiplicative order doesnt matter).
800% - (20% tenacity) = 640% For pvp purposes to factor in tenacity.
so roughly 5,120 damage that NOW respects DR. On average lets assume 25% ARP, versus say, a tank class (GWF/DC/GF) itll deal like 4,000 damage close to every 6-7 seconds? In PVP as well, this can be harder since you will have kite quite a bit more but free casting this could be very dangerous - definitely something to try and avoid and worthy of a Capstone?
On squishier targets itll probably hit for full damage. TBH it may even be too strong so I could see even 10% @ 1000% weapon damage (damage buff but proc chance reduction).... Just want to get the wheels turning
After tenacity patch control wizards needed better control skills to survive but now. In pvp you gave them long prone with ice knife, shard, longer duration for all that control effects, and thats not all. you gave them assailant force and shield. All in one spec. Also severe reaction makes it impossible to combo on a control wizard which is ok but you just cant have everything at once. Remember this is a feedback based on only pvp assessment. I hope you see the problem here. I am not trying to troll but all of you need to pvp with your control wizards and find out what i am saying.
Second is from the dragon fight in Neverdeath. Again, Assailant is accounting for a lot of damage.
So I know the immediate reaction is "OMG! OP!" but when you consider we had our damage dialed back about 30-40%, seeing Assaliant account for 20-30% of the damage (combined with another 10%ish damage increase from Creeping Frost/Warped Magics), we're at least close to being near our pre-nerf damage with the Thaumaturge spec, which from what I'm gathering from the Devs is meant to be the DPS tree for CW's.
That makes the Thaumaturge and the Oppressor trees very competitive with each other. I still think the Renegade tree needs a little more love by making Chaos Magic and Phantasmal Destruction team buffs (and possibly Chilling Advantage). If you did that, I think the CW would be in a pretty good spot for Module 4.
Your shield will pulse 300% Weapon damage while unstable.
With the only exception that this doesen't require any skill at all.
It's just an at-will spamming easy mode waiting on the next proc.
I am indeed a cw since beta and i hope they would cut this <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> and buff the encounters back in a moderate way tbh, but that's just my opinion.
I am happy that they are trying to give us some damage back, but they are doing it the wrong way.
I agree, each path is getting easy mode, so give Renegade Shield Pulse CAPSTONE so we have easy mode too.
One major thing to note is that both the Lostmauth dungeon and the Dragon fights are primarily single-target fights. There's very little trash or mobs of 15+ enemies to give much AoE damage. That's where the majority of CW damage comes from. Running around Dwarven Valley Assailing Force accounts for about 11% of my damage. The reality is CW's are not at all close to being near pre-nerf damage even with Assailant, Creeping Frost/Warped Magics on mobs. However we are exceeding the single target damage we are able to do on live.
For PVP is the same, things are near to perfect and CW have now real chance to win and not the combo perfect play/luck (for crit)/bad play for oponen to hope a 1vs1 win. It of course a big change as player now canno't simply run on CW and get a free kill most of the time.
If you use shield on tab, damage done from CW dps way are not on the top damage. without counting assaillant the 3 individual spell you can put can give around 4k damage each on my actual lvl(15k gs lvl 9 spell plague enchant), the only actual real damage spell is lighting storm, and this spell is so hard to use in pvp that he will probably miss 50% or more.
So to resume, i want to thanks DEV that listen community because even if change are not finished, finally i can have some hope for my CW to be playable for V4. adjustment and cursor are not far from perfect in every aspect that can be done (at least for thauma and opressor way).
And for those who think CW do two much damage in pvp with assaillant, i disagree with them, the way things are in actual statment are good because to make it simply all dominant are more or less based on high PV/regen/defense while pure dps build have real hard time in pvp. the fact that assaillant do not care of defense and is hp based damage clearly will put CW stronger against that kind of player while we will be more vulnerable against pure dps player.
if i take my actual damage with my actual state (without counting defense nor crit) here what it give
tab;ray of enfeeblement(6k), other spell ice conduct (thauma way 4-5k), entrangling force (4-5k), chill strike (6k) or repel
i start with ice conduct (4k but all other spell will do +30-40% damage for 6 second)+ ray of enfeblement * 2 (first shot +15-20% more damage second same: mean 8-9k for first ray and 10-11k for second) + entrangling force 8-9k + chill strike 10-11k: total = 35k damage without counting any defense.
on previous (let count assaillant grant once every turn that is more than reality but it will help to count)
let start with ray of enfeeblement 4K, chill strike 4 k and let say icy terrain 4-5k) it give 4k +5k +5 k= 14K damage + let say 8-16 k(for a 20-40k pv player) from assaillant = 26 kdamage. (assaillant do not get buff spell but are not affected by defense)
now let apply a Wizard defense full pve (25% defense) in first case you do 35 * 0.75 = 27k around
second case you do 14k *0.75 + 8k = around 19k
second let take a 50% defense 30 k pv player.
35 * 0.5 = 17.5 k damage
in previous.
14k*0.5 +12k = 19 k
if i goes higher pv and / or defense, the higher it will goes in favor of the new system.
So yes i think it is good and it will give more opportunity for other kind of build than pv/regen/def build.
Every kind of build now will be able to end against build where they are weaker. more variety and no dominat build way
Orb of Imposition: When ranked up, the slotted tool tip still lists +25%, not +75%
Also, similar tool tip bugs for the other "yellow" abilities
The first parse was from the entire dungeon. And there's plenty of 5-10 mob packs along the way (although it is a relatively short dungeon). But I would hardly call the dungeon fights "primarily" single target.
EDIT: And yes, it was only one run. I'll parse more to see if I get things to even out more. But with Assailant, more hits equals more chances to proc it, which is probably the difference.
What build are you running where Assailing Force is only 11%?
EDIT2: I'll also add running a dungeon is very different from running around open world, but maybe tonight I'll take some time to run my build around DV and see what I get.
Control Wizard: Assailing Force: This feat is now half as effective on players.
Control Wizard: Freeze: This hold no longer breaks from damage. It is now only resisted with Control Resist.
Control Wizard: Nightmare Wizardry: This feat has switched places with Energy Recovery and now requires 10 points in Renegade to access it.
Control Wizard: Energy Recovery: This feat has switched places with Nightmare Wizardry and now requires 5 points in Renegade to access it.
Control Wizard: Chaos Magic: Now applies to yourself and allies within 50' when triggering.
These changes should hit PTS this week.
Thank you all for your continued feedback!
Chris "Gentleman Crush" Meyer
Feedback: Nightmare Wizardry
Very sad to see this change. Yet, at the same time it is entirely appropriate. With the best renegade feat only requiring 5 points to access it Thaumaturge CW's have been able to "double-dip" and get the best of both trees for too long. It's what made the Thaumaturge tree so popular. Now I'm actually facing a hard decision between the three trees.
Fantastic changes! No one should ever doubt that you guys are responsive to player feedback.
Making the decision to adjust damage for PvE and PvP on Assailing Force was bold, and the correct way to handle it. CW's should be able to deliver on damage in PvE if desired, while still be competitive in PvP. I'm glad to see you didn't over-nerf one side to compensate for the other.
The freeze fix is outstanding, as Oppressor was still a bit lackluster giving how quickly Freeze broke in dungeons under focused group fire. I tested an Oppressor build yesterday, and could hardly notice things freezing. This is a great fix.
And making Chaos Magic a 50' aura is a great buff for Renegades, and gives that tree a unique group-centric role.
I agree. Ten points in Renegade to get Nightmare Wizardry was essentially mandatory in any build, as the increase to personal and group DPS was significant. Seeing it basically reserved for Renegades only is a great boost to that tree. With Chaos Magic being a group buff, there's a lot of compelling reasons to run a Renegade build, especially if you run with more than one CW on a regular basis.
While I appreciate putting this talent into tier 3, I strongly disagree with swapping it for Energy Recovery. There is no valuable tier 2 talent now that I would consider picking because both Energy Recovery and Unrestrained Chaos are terrible for any PvE build.
Picking between talents that are the least worse is never a fun place to be in. I'd like to have a good tier 2 talent that I could pick instead...
How about you swap it with Phantasmal Destruction instead? That would solve the problem just as well without making the progression through the Renegade tree awkward...
T2 Spell Storm - Unrestrained Chaos - increase radius 1/2/3/4/5 feet for Maelstrom of Chaos and adds 5 arcane stacks
t2 Master of Flame - Arcane Burst - Scorching burst has a 10/20/30/40/50% chance to add arcane stack per target
Now rework shard of endless avalanche on tab for pvp to make it hit more than 1/2 k crit (less than almost any at-will) and i'm done with this thread.
thanks for info and change, i agree for the renegade change of order so the nightmare wizardry will become a personnal very good for renegade way as he will be no more accessible for other way.
assailing force: need to be tested but well i just hope this will remain a good way to shoot big hp/regen/high def player. As i said in a previous post i think the power is especially good for pvp as he specialise to shot big hp/regen/def player while he become weaker facing dps player that are more oriented on damage. It offering a good possibility in pvp terms for as there won't be anymore one kind of build that will be the king in every case
And perhaps it's time to rework Maestrom of chaos (lot of post about it) to make it worthwhile with the feat that goes with it...
Nobody would think to choose Unrestrained Chaos because nobody uses Malestrom of Chaos.
800% of weapon damage vs 15% life.
at 800 damage, thats 6400. 15% life on most players even 40k HP = 6000.
The % of life is the limiting factor for PVP. Weapon damage is for PVE.
The easier change to this could have been to either:
1) Let it respect DR instead of bypassing it.
2) Reduce the % of max HP it can hit for. Since in PVP itll almost always proc off HP and not weapon damage.
Cutting it in half, is yet to be tested. Im always leery of any class that has abilities that ignore DR, for obvious reasons (see tenebrous or shocking exec).
i think we won't be agree on that
Enchants on weapons cause a second image of the weapon to appear,making cws run around with two orbs hovering above them. Also please fix the orbs angle so they face to the front like they used to rather than sideways,that they now do.I will attach a few images i captured while running around at preview,so you can see the bug firsthand. To tell you the truth that's one change to cws i really dislike.
HR Stormwarden Trapper / Stormwarden Combat
GWF Swordmaster Destroyer
CW Master of Flame Thaumaturge / Spellstorm Oppressor
TR Master Infiltrator Executioner
SW Soulbinder Fury
and is Sudden Storm still getting its absurd/nonsensical damage decrease? (the only spell that doesnt have a secondary effect and sole purpose is dealing damage but difficult to execute)
I beg you, this is all I want currently. PLEASE I don't think you understand how disgusting it is to see that
Feedback:
a) Moving the Nightmare Wizardy feat is a good idea, but replacing it with an
essentially worthless feat (for pve) is a handicap for the Renegade tree. I now will
have another 5 points I will have to sink into this tree which will provide little value.
This makes both of the tier 2 feats garbage for the pve wizards.
b) Changing the Chaos Magic capstone: I'm disappointed in the Renegade tree
going from a critical hit/dps tree to a party utility (or party buf) feat tree. You
should probably rename the tree, because Renegade will no longer have much to
do with it (hey, there's a reason to be classed as Renegade, and this has very little
to do with it).
c) MaelStorm of Chaos - as a defining daily spell in the spell storm branch of wizards,
this spell has nothing to recommend wasting skill points on in pve, much less prohibitly
rare feat points.
I wholeheartedly agree. It was a good idea to move it up but Energy Recovery is useless to Renegades as we will be slotting and using magic missile instead of chilling cloud based on the capstone. Like previously suggested, making PD as the capstone, so from the top row: critical power, chaos magic, masterful arcane theft, nightmare wizardry, capstone: Phantasmal Destruction, bottom row unchanged. Getting a higher crit severity goes in line with being a Renegade and to me that is the most appropriate capstone. Chaos magic shouldn't be party wide especially when move to the lower tier.
If you are going ahead and moving forward with the proposed arrangement, I find it hard to believe anyone would spec for renegade and the name doesn't match nor the description like I been saying all along. Maybe rename it Distinguished Wizard for half DC/half Wizard
1. Glad to see the change with freeze. Will make freeze much more beneficial in PVE.
2. PVE - Devastated to see nightmare wizardry moving further into the renegade tree, but I understand with the double dipping. However as a CW, combat advantage isn't exactly easy to obtain without this feat. The extra damage from combat advantage (nightmare wizardry) helps the CW the most when having to take care of the army of adds. Again, if we loose control and can't kill them fast enough, we die very easy.
Sadly as of right now, the bottom row of renegade is pretty much useless for SS PVE.
Energy recovery is really ???. I use chilling cloud and even that is no where a desirable feat, let alone wasting 5 points on. That's what lifesteal is for. (PVE)
Unrestrained chaos, well no one uses maelstrom.
Reaper's touch, is possibility, since I zip around a lot, but still for 5 points, I'd rather use it for something that provides a constant or guaranteed buff.
Chilling advantage.. well there are some other class features that could be slotted for better dps, primarily storm spell and evocation with the current changes on preview.
3. Makes renegade slightly appealing, though the name of the tree isn't exactly fitting.