This stuff they nerf hoses the PvE game which is what most people play.
And I'd rather have them fix the other two classes rather than break yet another one... the track record on this isn't very good here.
You have evidence that pve population is vastly bigger than pvp population?
Also last module seems to suggest pvp as a first class citizen.
But this means nothing. Cryptic won't lose one source of income. Maybe bigger than pve I suspect. Pvp players spend more money on the game, while pve players just farm dungeons for they needs, I think.
Even right now...you take a thermatauge CW that has even close to the same power of a GWF and he will beat him. You fix his damage too much without adjusting the CW and the meta will turn into 4 or 5 CW's.
I don't wanna get to far off track here, I have a Thaum CW and if I can double hit with RoE, Debuff with Conduit and Entangling Force. So thats 2 Ray of Enfeeblements / 1 Conduit for 15% debuff, then add another 10% from Entangling Elemental Empowerment I can hit him HARD really hard... But after that if hes not dead I will be unless I am hiding on the ledge above and he will just unstoppable run away and sometime even get to me up top before my mount is ready...
CW - need to do great damage as they are squishy! GWf are not squishy.
Shieldbash60 GF ~ Iron Vanguard19.0k Overpowered60 CW~ Thaumaturge14.5k ==========================================
~ GF Buffs were great we are much better, please fix the bugs now... Thank you!
I was hit by equal gear GWF, as I messaged a member on the opposing team to tell me his GS, he was 15k I am 14.5k he hit me for 10,000 then 9,000 then 15,000 IBS Mind you those damages are after mitigation the IBS really hit me for 28k, I have 32k hp. So was this a fluke? I think not... Sadly!
I lie about my GS when people ask me all the time, thats not good enough.
10,000 , 9,000 , 15,000 ? what? IBS could hit one of those numbers, Takedown = i doubt it, and what is the third ability? If it is what i think it is, then you obviously dont know how to counter that play.
I was hit by equal gear GWF, as I messaged a member on the opposing team to tell me his GS, he was 15k I am 14.5k he hit me for 10,000 then 9,000 then 15,000 IBS Mind you those damages are after mitigation the IBS really hit me for 28k, I have 32k hp. So was this a fluke? I think not... Sadly!
there`s 15k and there`s 15k, if you just look at gearscore you don`t know what it`s about anyway.
sounds like 0 defense, see those players a lot, they re just like butter and then go complain.
Even right now...you take a thermatauge CW that has even close to the same power of a GWF and he will beat him. You fix his damage too much without adjusting the CW and the meta will turn into 4 or 5 CW's.
Eh, so what? Why should a Tank DPS hybrid GWF be the BEST at everything? CW is a Mage a ranged damage dealer / controller thats their only jobs. GWF are DPS , Tank , Off Tank / Controller!
Shieldbash60 GF ~ Iron Vanguard19.0k Overpowered60 CW~ Thaumaturge14.5k ==========================================
~ GF Buffs were great we are much better, please fix the bugs now... Thank you!
You have evidence that pve population is vastly bigger than pvp population?
Also last module seems to suggest pvp as a first class citizen.
But this means nothing. Cryptic won't lose one source of income. Maybe bigger than pve I suspect. Pvp players spend more money on the game, while pve players just farm dungeons for they needs, I think.
it`s only bigger because pvp`rs need ad for gear ;p
there`s 15k and there`s 15k, if you just look at gearscore you don`t know what it`s about anyway.
sounds like 0 defense, see those players a lot, they re just like butter and then go complain.
I have 47.8 DR? How much defense should my GF have to mitigate a 28,000 damage IBS? Please tell me
Shieldbash60 GF ~ Iron Vanguard19.0k Overpowered60 CW~ Thaumaturge14.5k ==========================================
~ GF Buffs were great we are much better, please fix the bugs now... Thank you!
0
psychaos999Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited June 2014
By the way, you gwf really like your class, uh!
I think it's a right that even other players can like their classes as much as you do. And frankly is way better for cryptic if that happens fast.
And if to get that they will nerf one class who has dominated the game for the last several month, you should get over it.
(as should get over it CWs if they change pve mechanics)
You have evidence that pve population is vastly bigger than pvp population?
Also last module seems to suggest pvp as a first class citizen.
But this means nothing. Cryptic won't lose one source of income. Maybe bigger than pve I suspect. Pvp players spend more money on the game, while pve players just farm dungeons for they needs, I think.
Which is true, PvP players spend a ton of money.... but it is PvE that is primarily played.
But.... in case you haven't figured it out yet from all these nerf failures... the game isn't and never was designed for PvP with a class vs class with 25,000 health average.
The abillites were ACTUALLY designed to be going against these Million Health mobs so everything YOU think is OverPowered is just a drop in the bucket in PvE and barely makes a scratch.
Which is why every time you guys try to "balance" or "fix" PvP its an utter failure as the classes were balanced for PvE and going against Mobs with a crapton of health... they weren't balanced against a mere... 25k health.
You haven't fixed a **** thing, you guys are STILL whining about PvP balance, you've been an absolute FAILURE... and a F-up and can't get it right no matter what you do.
And on top of that you've hosed the PvE game every time you do this.
I trust you about as far as I can throw you.
0
psychaos999Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
I have 47.8 DR? How much defense should my GF have to mitigate a 28,000 damage IBS? Please tell me
And that's the problem. Defence is capped and everybody is near that cap, but damage is not. GWF are alredy capable to kill opponent with that much defence in one rotation. In the (near) future with better gears, what will happen?
I have 47.8 DR? How much defense should my GF have to mitigate a 28,000 damage IBS? Please tell me
and when was this, before or after destroyer buf is fixed, had sometimes higher then 20k takedowns, but don`t know what gear they had.
it`s kind of useless or too time consuming when not knowing all detailes which mather in the discussion.
so much can play a role in it, like other peoples buf debufs, etc.
I guess I agree to disagree. While I forget this is a PVP topic my response was in relation to PVE. Although any fix you make for the GWF in PVP will effect him in PVE. You fix a GWF's damage and nobody will do anything in dung except CW's. Because, and I am sure you already know this, you do not need tanks in PVE.
Thats cool we disagree but you can't be serious? Lower a GWF damage makes them useless? Come on man!!!!! Right now I bet GWF out DPS CW most times?
You gotta be kidding? Even before Mod 3 changes that boosted their dps more, they were still kings in both PvE and PvP?
and when was this, before or after destroyer buf is fixed, had sometimes higher then 20k takedowns, but don`t know what gear they had.
it`s kind of useless or too time consuming when not knowing all detailes which mather in the discussion.
Yes,
That is actually the PERFECT damage for a GWF in PvE, that's what they NEED to be doing to be an actual Single Target striker on Mobs with Millions of Health.
Ergo... nerf that... you hose the PvE game again and BREAK yet another class.
EDIT: And actually they should be doing more than that.
GWF is just fine after the Roar fix. I think GFs need to be rebalanced.
If we had 1 constructive buff GF thread for every dozen nerf GWF/TR/HR thread then we might actually have a chance of spurring up some creative ways for the devs to rebalance the classes that actually need it. .
--- Ranked matches need to be solo-queue only
Enforce rainbow parties in PvP ---- 10v10 PvP ----
and when was this, before or after destroyer buf is fixed, had sometimes higher then 20k takedowns, but don`t know what gear they had.
it`s kind of useless or too time consuming when not knowing all detailes which mather in the discussion.
so much can play a role in it, like other peoples buf debufs, etc.
This was last night.
Shieldbash60 GF ~ Iron Vanguard19.0k Overpowered60 CW~ Thaumaturge14.5k ==========================================
~ GF Buffs were great we are much better, please fix the bugs now... Thank you!
GWF is just fine after the Roar fix. I think GFs need to be rebalanced.
If we had 1 constructive buff GF thread for every dozen nerf GWF/TR/HR thread then we might actually have a chance of spurring up some creative ways for the devs to rebalance the classes that actually need it. .
You play GWF! We have many many many constructive GF threads.
Shieldbash60 GF ~ Iron Vanguard19.0k Overpowered60 CW~ Thaumaturge14.5k ==========================================
~ GF Buffs were great we are much better, please fix the bugs now... Thank you!
0
psychaos999Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
GWF is just fine after the Roar fix. I think GFs need to be rebalanced.
If we had 1 constructive buff GF thread for every dozen nerf GWF/TR/HR thread then we might actually have a chance of spurring up some creative ways for the devs to rebalance the classes that actually need it. .
And then again: pve, pvp, everywhere you look it's broken. And for christ sake, everywhere you look you'll see an happy gwf.
How can't you see that one of the problems this game have are you gwf?!
First, I don't play a GWF and find they are near god like in PvP and PvE.
That said, I don't want them nerfed. Instead I want the other classes buffed to be competitive. How can we ever expect T3 dungeons if we keep asking for nerfs?!
I lie about my GS when people ask me all the time, thats not good enough.
10,000 , 9,000 , 15,000 ? what? IBS could hit one of those numbers, Takedown = i doubt it, and what is the third ability? If it is what i think it is, then you obviously dont know how to counter that play.
AGREED, If their doing big damage, then they have no Defense, Ive Beaten plenty of 18k GWF's with 0 defense just because theyr trigger happy and think they can one shot
All the combos above I saw posted in these forums, I don't really bother with PvE myself much.
PvE should not be the reason for balance changes in classes, cause in this game, it's simple enough that you can clear it with pretty much anything. Also mobs never come crying to forums when they get hit with 100K IBS.
These being said, 3 classes (HR/GWF/TR) are so OP at the moment in PvP, that they are pretty much making the game not enjoyable for GF/CW/DC. At least one of them will get serious nerfs. I should probably be happy the classes I play will approximately remain untouched (no, the upcoming Roar fix won't make GWFs on the same page as CWs for example).
Also if you want to get a class ner... ahem, balanced, all you gotta do is make a video of you and a friend trying to kill that class and getting murdered in the process, post to forum, wait a week, and then developers will drop in and fix stuff for you.
No need to thank me for letting you in on the insides of the balancing mechanisms.
/here's my problem. If they buff everything else to bring it on par with CWFs than every party composition will be the same yawn-fest. Sure nobody wants the nerf bat (trust me I main a HR and that class has seen nothing but nerf wince it was introduced). But no real solution will work as long as the content leads to A. Gear bloat and B. burn everything. Buffing everything else will only lead to more boring homogenous content.
0
silverquickMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 1Arc User
These being said, 3 classes (HR/GWF/TR) are so OP at the moment in PvP, that they are pretty much making the game not enjoyable for GF/CW/DC. At least one of them will get serious nerfs. I should probably be happy the classes I play will approximately remain untouched (no, the upcoming Roar fix won't make GWFs on the same page as CWs for example).
Also if you want to get a class ner... ahem, balanced, all you gotta do is make a video of you and a friend trying to kill that class and getting murdered in the process, post to forum, wait a week, and then developers will drop in and fix stuff for you.
No need to thank me for letting you in on the insides of the balancing mechanisms.
Ironically the majority of it caused by NERFs..
CW and DC control power nerfs, DC healing depression... (admittedly GF has never been majorly nerfed outside of armor that I remember)
TRs that now run Perma Stealth because their damage has been nerfed so much that the only viable build is Perma.
Its just a long string of these assanine nerfs that caused all these problems in the first place.
This wouldn't even be a problem if not for the overnerfing of the other classes.
And its not just PvP either... these nerfs are getting out of hand and causing more problems than they're solving.
0
silverquickMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 1Arc User
edited June 2014
This endless useless cycle of nerfing hasn't fixed dm thing.
Its just one nerf after another, no real fix, just a bunch of whining about how its STILL not balanced.
That's enough here...
Its time to walk a different path, this circle jerk is getting nowhere. And only making the problems worse.
CW and DC control power nerfs, DC healing depression... (admittedly GF has never been majorly nerfed outside of armor that I remember)
Turning blind-eye to what mod2 was like? Totally unkillable DCs, as much unkillable GWFs?
CC-resistances through tenacity work as a reduction in duration. How much reduction do you think a 5-second CC is going to get from a 20% resistance? And then the CWs were whining so hard, that they received a 66% resistance penetration through it, so only 1/3rd of whatever reduction in duration will ever be applied. Most of the cases where a CC ends noticeably prematurely, is when it was deflected. This has been happening way before Tenacity.
TRs that now run Perma Stealth because their damage has been nerfed so much that the only viable build is Perma.
And prior to the damage nerf, it was a one-shot build. It was just asking for nerfs, and deserved it in every meaning of the word. The problem us TRs face is not about the damage. It's about the flimsy combat design which was covered up by blatantly OP amount of damage.
Its just a long string of these assanine nerfs that caused all these problems in the first place.
This wouldn't even be a problem if not for the overnerfing of the other classes. And its not just PvP either... these nerfs are getting out of hand and causing more problems than they're solving.
Every nerf every class got over the years were all deserving. Nerfing problem areas simply revealed initial design flaws which were covered up by those OP problem areas.
So you can keep whining about wanting travel back in time, or you can ask the developers to continue with balancing and see it through, so the initial problems/design flaws are finally solved once and for good.
Stop making excuses. Be a man. If you know something to be broken, stop using it. Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
Comments
You have evidence that pve population is vastly bigger than pvp population?
Also last module seems to suggest pvp as a first class citizen.
But this means nothing. Cryptic won't lose one source of income. Maybe bigger than pve I suspect. Pvp players spend more money on the game, while pve players just farm dungeons for they needs, I think.
I don't wanna get to far off track here, I have a Thaum CW and if I can double hit with RoE, Debuff with Conduit and Entangling Force. So thats 2 Ray of Enfeeblements / 1 Conduit for 15% debuff, then add another 10% from Entangling Elemental Empowerment I can hit him HARD really hard... But after that if hes not dead I will be unless I am hiding on the ledge above and he will just unstoppable run away and sometime even get to me up top before my mount is ready...
CW - need to do great damage as they are squishy! GWf are not squishy.
Overpowered 60 CW ~ Thaumaturge 14.5k
==========================================
~ GF Buffs were great we are much better, please fix the bugs now... Thank you!
I lie about my GS when people ask me all the time, thats not good enough.
10,000 , 9,000 , 15,000 ? what? IBS could hit one of those numbers, Takedown = i doubt it, and what is the third ability? If it is what i think it is, then you obviously dont know how to counter that play.
sounds like 0 defense, see those players a lot, they re just like butter and then go complain.
Eh, so what? Why should a Tank DPS hybrid GWF be the BEST at everything? CW is a Mage a ranged damage dealer / controller thats their only jobs. GWF are DPS , Tank , Off Tank / Controller!
Overpowered 60 CW ~ Thaumaturge 14.5k
==========================================
~ GF Buffs were great we are much better, please fix the bugs now... Thank you!
I have 47.8 DR? How much defense should my GF have to mitigate a 28,000 damage IBS? Please tell me
Overpowered 60 CW ~ Thaumaturge 14.5k
==========================================
~ GF Buffs were great we are much better, please fix the bugs now... Thank you!
I think it's a right that even other players can like their classes as much as you do. And frankly is way better for cryptic if that happens fast.
And if to get that they will nerf one class who has dominated the game for the last several month, you should get over it.
(as should get over it CWs if they change pve mechanics)
Which is true, PvP players spend a ton of money.... but it is PvE that is primarily played.
But.... in case you haven't figured it out yet from all these nerf failures... the game isn't and never was designed for PvP with a class vs class with 25,000 health average.
The abillites were ACTUALLY designed to be going against these Million Health mobs so everything YOU think is OverPowered is just a drop in the bucket in PvE and barely makes a scratch.
Which is why every time you guys try to "balance" or "fix" PvP its an utter failure as the classes were balanced for PvE and going against Mobs with a crapton of health... they weren't balanced against a mere... 25k health.
You haven't fixed a **** thing, you guys are STILL whining about PvP balance, you've been an absolute FAILURE... and a F-up and can't get it right no matter what you do.
And on top of that you've hosed the PvE game every time you do this.
I trust you about as far as I can throw you.
And that's the problem. Defence is capped and everybody is near that cap, but damage is not. GWF are alredy capable to kill opponent with that much defence in one rotation. In the (near) future with better gears, what will happen?
and when was this, before or after destroyer buf is fixed, had sometimes higher then 20k takedowns, but don`t know what gear they had.
it`s kind of useless or too time consuming when not knowing all detailes which mather in the discussion.
so much can play a role in it, like other peoples buf debufs, etc.
Thats cool we disagree but you can't be serious? Lower a GWF damage makes them useless? Come on man!!!!! Right now I bet GWF out DPS CW most times?
You gotta be kidding? Even before Mod 3 changes that boosted their dps more, they were still kings in both PvE and PvP?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=paVQKZltz9Y
Overpowered 60 CW ~ Thaumaturge 14.5k
==========================================
~ GF Buffs were great we are much better, please fix the bugs now... Thank you!
Yes,
That is actually the PERFECT damage for a GWF in PvE, that's what they NEED to be doing to be an actual Single Target striker on Mobs with Millions of Health.
Ergo... nerf that... you hose the PvE game again and BREAK yet another class.
EDIT: And actually they should be doing more than that.
If we had 1 constructive buff GF thread for every dozen nerf GWF/TR/HR thread then we might actually have a chance of spurring up some creative ways for the devs to rebalance the classes that actually need it. .
Enforce rainbow parties in PvP ---- 10v10 PvP ----
This was last night.
Overpowered 60 CW ~ Thaumaturge 14.5k
==========================================
~ GF Buffs were great we are much better, please fix the bugs now... Thank you!
You play GWF! We have many many many constructive GF threads.
Overpowered 60 CW ~ Thaumaturge 14.5k
==========================================
~ GF Buffs were great we are much better, please fix the bugs now... Thank you!
And then again: pve, pvp, everywhere you look it's broken. And for christ sake, everywhere you look you'll see an happy gwf.
How can't you see that one of the problems this game have are you gwf?!
All you need to do is play the game and details will be bestowed upon you! I gotta punch out so im done.
Overpowered 60 CW ~ Thaumaturge 14.5k
==========================================
~ GF Buffs were great we are much better, please fix the bugs now... Thank you!
i don`t care, that`s pve.
whole different story, boss can`t dodge or block.
That said, I don't want them nerfed. Instead I want the other classes buffed to be competitive. How can we ever expect T3 dungeons if we keep asking for nerfs?!
AGREED, If their doing big damage, then they have no Defense, Ive Beaten plenty of 18k GWF's with 0 defense just because theyr trigger happy and think they can one shot
3 CW draco=possible.
2 CW draco=possible
3 GWF draco=possible
HR+2CW draco=possible
SOLO TR draco=POSSIBLE.
All the combos above I saw posted in these forums, I don't really bother with PvE myself much.
PvE should not be the reason for balance changes in classes, cause in this game, it's simple enough that you can clear it with pretty much anything. Also mobs never come crying to forums when they get hit with 100K IBS.
These being said, 3 classes (HR/GWF/TR) are so OP at the moment in PvP, that they are pretty much making the game not enjoyable for GF/CW/DC. At least one of them will get serious nerfs. I should probably be happy the classes I play will approximately remain untouched (no, the upcoming Roar fix won't make GWFs on the same page as CWs for example).
Also if you want to get a class ner... ahem, balanced, all you gotta do is make a video of you and a friend trying to kill that class and getting murdered in the process, post to forum, wait a week, and then developers will drop in and fix stuff for you.
No need to thank me for letting you in on the insides of the balancing mechanisms.
Ironically the majority of it caused by NERFs..
CW and DC control power nerfs, DC healing depression... (admittedly GF has never been majorly nerfed outside of armor that I remember)
TRs that now run Perma Stealth because their damage has been nerfed so much that the only viable build is Perma.
Its just a long string of these assanine nerfs that caused all these problems in the first place.
This wouldn't even be a problem if not for the overnerfing of the other classes.
And its not just PvP either... these nerfs are getting out of hand and causing more problems than they're solving.
Its just one nerf after another, no real fix, just a bunch of whining about how its STILL not balanced.
That's enough here...
Its time to walk a different path, this circle jerk is getting nowhere. And only making the problems worse.
Gross exaggeration on the effect of nerfs.
Turning blind-eye to what mod2 was like? Totally unkillable DCs, as much unkillable GWFs?
CC-resistances through tenacity work as a reduction in duration. How much reduction do you think a 5-second CC is going to get from a 20% resistance? And then the CWs were whining so hard, that they received a 66% resistance penetration through it, so only 1/3rd of whatever reduction in duration will ever be applied. Most of the cases where a CC ends noticeably prematurely, is when it was deflected. This has been happening way before Tenacity.
And prior to the damage nerf, it was a one-shot build. It was just asking for nerfs, and deserved it in every meaning of the word. The problem us TRs face is not about the damage. It's about the flimsy combat design which was covered up by blatantly OP amount of damage.
Every nerf every class got over the years were all deserving. Nerfing problem areas simply revealed initial design flaws which were covered up by those OP problem areas.
So you can keep whining about wanting travel back in time, or you can ask the developers to continue with balancing and see it through, so the initial problems/design flaws are finally solved once and for good.
If you know something to be broken, stop using it.
Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'