So let's compare what actually happens in groups and CC potential.
CW- Opens with Arcane singularity, gathers 20 mobs, stuns them, prones them, and then slows their escape. All combined this is a long duration of controlling every mob in the room exactly where you want them. Zero mobs uncontrolled.
The CW doesn't "open" with Singularity unless he's got a Daily power built up in the first place, because... well its a DAILY.
He then can Stun (Steal Time) those mobs for 3 seconds, and then (Shards) Prone them for an additional 1 second.
You've accounted for 4 seconds of combat...
With a single CW. Now he's got those 12 and 11 second recast timers to wait on...
Hope he killed the entire pack by himself in that time, or he's dead at that point...
A GWF/GF without a CW- Can prone and stun up to 5 random mobs. 15 mobs run completely uncontrolled.
A DC (LOL) without a CW- Repels all the mobs, putting them in even worse positioning than before using the skill. 20 mobs uncontrolled.
No other class even has AOE CC to speak of (DC doesn't either but you seem to think they do for some insane reason).
Ahh but you're finally approaching how it ACTUALLY works... your mistake... is in assuming its ONLY the CW doing it and has the only CC.
The CW1 will Stun them... (3 seconds)
The GWF1 the prones them.... (1 second)
The CW1 then prones them again (1 second)
The GWF2 Prones them... (1 second)
The CW2 Stuns them.... (3 seconds)
GWF 1 prones them again (1 second).
CW2 prones them again (1 second)
Are you getting it yet?
He's not the Controller... its everyone in the party who is the controller.... he's only the one doing large amounts of damage to everything at once because HIS specialty is AoE Nukes. Its not the CW... its a combination of the CW combined with multiple other classes.
The CW doesn't lock down or control ANYTHING alone...
Hopefully you're starting to get the point now... at least I'd hope. OR... how about another one you've seen...
CW1 will stun them... 3 seconds.
CW2 will prone them... 1 second.
CW3 will stun them.... 3 seconds.
CW1 will prone them.. 1 second.
CW2 Will Stun them... 3 seconds.
CW3 etc...
A single CW does not have the control capability to do this by himself... it takes the CW and a lot of others in various classes in conjunction. By the way a full GWF party can do this same thing in a total GWF party.
I'm sure you've seen the videos. Clerics could too... IF they actually had any damage to speak of. But when you combine the GWFs, CWs, and Clerics togather... you can do almost anything.
At this point I really kind of doubt you even play Neverwinter, let alone play a CW, let alone have played any other class ever in a group.
I was thinking the same about you actually...
Have you ever stopped and thought about how this stuff ACTUALLY works... instead of just assuming a class that has "Control" in their title was doing it all by themselves?
But that's YOURE problem: Youre saying that the other classes are the ones doing the work. Its an uneven scale about whos actually doing the work... The CW actually does AT LEAST 2/3 of the work... not the other way around.
Watch the videos. Its not DCs piling mobs to one point. Its not GWFs that are grouping mobs to a single point(watch said videos again, 5 gwf parties consist of come and get it(a weak substitute to ANY cw power) and aoe nuking them. The only reason GWF parties work is BECAUSE of their aoe dps, not control. Look again, GWF parties kite mobs, due to their survivability, to the spot they choose. They don't pull or pile really. Kiting and crowd control are 2 entirely different playstyles.
Like you were told, roll another class, then tell me about your mass piling/pulling/proning/dazing/stunning/freezing of 20+ mobs.
Sure, other classes have cc. But only one has ALMOST EVERY POWER DEFINED AS IT...
I hear "learn to play" all the time, but it seems to me that it should be defined as "my class is balanced, except when others beat it, then THAT class is OP"...
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silverquickMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 1Arc User
Watch the videos. Its not DCs piling mobs to one point. Its not GWFs that are grouping mobs to a single point(watch said videos again, 5 gwf parties consist of come and get it(a weak substitute to ANY cw power) and aoe nuking them. The only reason GWF parties work is BECAUSE of their aoe dps, not control. Look again, GWF parties kite mobs, due to their survivability, to the spot they choose. They don't pull or pile really. Kiting and crowd control are 2 entirely different playstyles.
You don't get it do you...
Remove Singularity entirely from the game and the CWs just end up doing the same things the GWFs do... why? Yes I don't need any tank to kite anything for me either. I've done groups with CWs doing the same things you see with the GWFs.
Because they've all got the SAME actual control powers, BUT NONE of them work alone... its all of those classes combined... its not "just" the CW and never has been.
The CW is NO MORE a controller than any other class. Its when you combine their CCs with the CCs of all the other classes or multiple CWs... they can actually control something...
Other than that... NO you CANT....
Like I told you the CW is not a controller, at least no more a controller than any other class. Its an AoE nuker to be sure... but outside that its got Dailys which have to be built up to. And the other classes have the same abilities.
They are not and never have been specific to CWs. We just have all the AoE damage which is the specialty of the Wizard class.
Our CCs are not unique to a "Control" Wizard. That's just a name, that's all its ever been.
Remove Singularity entirely from the game and the CWs just end up doing the same things the GWFs do... why? Yes I don't need any tank to kite anything for me either. I've done groups with CWs doing the same things you see with the GWFs.
Because they've all got the SAME actual control powers, BUT NONE of them work alone... its all of those classes combined... its not "just" the CW and never has been.
The CW is NO MORE a controller than any other class. Its when you combine their CCs with the CCs of all the other classes or multiple CWs... they can actually control something...
Other than that... NO you CANT....
Like I told you the CW is not a controller, at least no more a controller than any other class. Its an AoE nuker to be sure... but outside that its got Dailys which have to be built up to. And the other classes have the same abilities.
They are not and never have been specific to CWs. We just have all the AoE damage which is the specialty of the Wizard class.
Our CCs are not unique to a "Control" Wizard. That's just a name, that's all its ever been.
You've been had.
YOU don't get it, do you?
The CW does NOT have the SAME actual control powers. I never said that the CW did ALL the work. They just did MOST of the work. Its not JUST the CW, but theyre the prime reason for it.
The CW is actually MORE of a controller than any other class. Its the combination of CWs working in tandem with other classes that nuke the enemy, not cc it. Every other classes aoe control powers are target capped compared to the CW. Once again, due to your blindness, whats the target cap for steal time versus say, DCs chains of blazing light? GWFs/GFs frontline surge? HRs binding arrows? oh yea, that's right... most CWs abilities that people call for in dungeons DONT HAVE A TARGET CAP!
Like YOU were told, the CW is a controller, at least more so than any other class. They can do aoe dps for sure... but if dps was all that was needed in a dungeon alone, any dps class can and would be picked over CWs wouldn't they? But they aren't, are they?
CC isn't unique to a CONTROL Wizards. BUT IT IS THEIR PRIME CAPABILITY, UNRIVALED BY OTHER CLASSES IN THIS ASPECT IN DUNGEONS. As they always have been.
Once again, how often are actual superior dps classes picked over CWs in a dungeon? How often has CN been run w/o a CW, or the phrase "im not picking up the CW, we have an HR here" in a party with no CW at all, used?
Wake up. YOUVE been had.
I hear "learn to play" all the time, but it seems to me that it should be defined as "my class is balanced, except when others beat it, then THAT class is OP"...
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silverquickMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 1Arc User
The CW is actually MORE of a controller than any other class. Its the combination of CWs working in tandem with other classes that nuke the enemy, not cc it. Every other classes aoe control powers are target capped compared to the CW. Once again, due to your blindness, whats the target cap for steal time versus say, DCs chains of blazing light? GWFs/GFs frontline surge? HRs binding arrows? oh yea, that's right... most CWs abilities that people call for in dungeons DONT HAVE A TARGET CAP!
You've got to be kidding me.
ALL you told me was that the CW... is an AoE class. That's pretty much it... you haven't demonstrated to me in any way they've suddenly got "more" CC than anyone else.
Like you were told the CW is not a controller. Its just an AoE damager with the same control components everyone else has in every other class has. There's literally no difference here.
There's nothing special there.
They can do aoe dps for sure... but if dps was all that was needed in a dungeon alone, any dps class can and would be picked over CWs wouldn't they? But they aren't, are they?
CC isn't unique to a CONTROL Wizards. BUT IT IS THEIR PRIME CAPABILITY, UNRIVALED BY OTHER CLASSES IN THIS ASPECT IN DUNGEONS. As they always have been..
No its AoE damage because he's an AoE specialist.
The other classes DONT have that as a specialty... Ergo... of COURSE he's going to be stronger in Mass Mobs.
They're not even close to the same degree the Wizard has... I've got a good 5-6 AoE damage encouters. How many do other classes have?
That's all Wizards have ever had OVER any other class. They even have significantly less Single Target Damage.
They're an AoE damage class with all the same CC components every other class has. All you're really telling me here is that they have more and larger AoEs.... NOT that they have somehow "more control".
They're just the same 1 second prones and 3 seconds stuns every other class has. The real difference is that almost all those other classes are... *shock*.... mostly Single Target damagers with lesser AoE abillities...
That's pretty much it. Its not a controller any more than any other class.
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zebularMember, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 15,270Community Moderator
edited June 2014
. . . Closing this down now because all that is happening is a back and forth argument which clearly falls to one person's playstyle not agreeing with anyone else in this thread. Bottom line, if one's CW is not Controlling things, that is no one's fault but one's own.
Comments
The CW doesn't "open" with Singularity unless he's got a Daily power built up in the first place, because... well its a DAILY.
He then can Stun (Steal Time) those mobs for 3 seconds, and then (Shards) Prone them for an additional 1 second.
You've accounted for 4 seconds of combat...
With a single CW. Now he's got those 12 and 11 second recast timers to wait on...
Hope he killed the entire pack by himself in that time, or he's dead at that point...
Ahh but you're finally approaching how it ACTUALLY works... your mistake... is in assuming its ONLY the CW doing it and has the only CC.
The CW1 will Stun them... (3 seconds)
The GWF1 the prones them.... (1 second)
The CW1 then prones them again (1 second)
The GWF2 Prones them... (1 second)
The CW2 Stuns them.... (3 seconds)
GWF 1 prones them again (1 second).
CW2 prones them again (1 second)
Are you getting it yet?
He's not the Controller... its everyone in the party who is the controller.... he's only the one doing large amounts of damage to everything at once because HIS specialty is AoE Nukes. Its not the CW... its a combination of the CW combined with multiple other classes.
The CW doesn't lock down or control ANYTHING alone...
Hopefully you're starting to get the point now... at least I'd hope. OR... how about another one you've seen...
CW1 will stun them... 3 seconds.
CW2 will prone them... 1 second.
CW3 will stun them.... 3 seconds.
CW1 will prone them.. 1 second.
CW2 Will Stun them... 3 seconds.
CW3 etc...
A single CW does not have the control capability to do this by himself... it takes the CW and a lot of others in various classes in conjunction. By the way a full GWF party can do this same thing in a total GWF party.
I'm sure you've seen the videos. Clerics could too... IF they actually had any damage to speak of. But when you combine the GWFs, CWs, and Clerics togather... you can do almost anything.
I was thinking the same about you actually...
Have you ever stopped and thought about how this stuff ACTUALLY works... instead of just assuming a class that has "Control" in their title was doing it all by themselves?
Watch the videos. Its not DCs piling mobs to one point. Its not GWFs that are grouping mobs to a single point(watch said videos again, 5 gwf parties consist of come and get it(a weak substitute to ANY cw power) and aoe nuking them. The only reason GWF parties work is BECAUSE of their aoe dps, not control. Look again, GWF parties kite mobs, due to their survivability, to the spot they choose. They don't pull or pile really. Kiting and crowd control are 2 entirely different playstyles.
Like you were told, roll another class, then tell me about your mass piling/pulling/proning/dazing/stunning/freezing of 20+ mobs.
Here, let me post the definition of crowd control AGAIN, this time through Neverwinter eyes...
http://neverwinter.gamepedia.com/Crowd_Control
Sure, other classes have cc. But only one has ALMOST EVERY POWER DEFINED AS IT...
You don't get it do you...
Remove Singularity entirely from the game and the CWs just end up doing the same things the GWFs do... why? Yes I don't need any tank to kite anything for me either. I've done groups with CWs doing the same things you see with the GWFs.
Because they've all got the SAME actual control powers, BUT NONE of them work alone... its all of those classes combined... its not "just" the CW and never has been.
The CW is NO MORE a controller than any other class. Its when you combine their CCs with the CCs of all the other classes or multiple CWs... they can actually control something...
Other than that... NO you CANT....
Like I told you the CW is not a controller, at least no more a controller than any other class. Its an AoE nuker to be sure... but outside that its got Dailys which have to be built up to. And the other classes have the same abilities.
They are not and never have been specific to CWs. We just have all the AoE damage which is the specialty of the Wizard class.
Our CCs are not unique to a "Control" Wizard. That's just a name, that's all its ever been.
You've been had.
YOU don't get it, do you?
The CW does NOT have the SAME actual control powers. I never said that the CW did ALL the work. They just did MOST of the work. Its not JUST the CW, but theyre the prime reason for it.
The CW is actually MORE of a controller than any other class. Its the combination of CWs working in tandem with other classes that nuke the enemy, not cc it. Every other classes aoe control powers are target capped compared to the CW. Once again, due to your blindness, whats the target cap for steal time versus say, DCs chains of blazing light? GWFs/GFs frontline surge? HRs binding arrows? oh yea, that's right... most CWs abilities that people call for in dungeons DONT HAVE A TARGET CAP!
Like YOU were told, the CW is a controller, at least more so than any other class. They can do aoe dps for sure... but if dps was all that was needed in a dungeon alone, any dps class can and would be picked over CWs wouldn't they? But they aren't, are they?
CC isn't unique to a CONTROL Wizards. BUT IT IS THEIR PRIME CAPABILITY, UNRIVALED BY OTHER CLASSES IN THIS ASPECT IN DUNGEONS. As they always have been.
Once again, how often are actual superior dps classes picked over CWs in a dungeon? How often has CN been run w/o a CW, or the phrase "im not picking up the CW, we have an HR here" in a party with no CW at all, used?
Wake up. YOUVE been had.
You've got to be kidding me.
ALL you told me was that the CW... is an AoE class. That's pretty much it... you haven't demonstrated to me in any way they've suddenly got "more" CC than anyone else.
Like you were told the CW is not a controller. Its just an AoE damager with the same control components everyone else has in every other class has. There's literally no difference here.
There's nothing special there.
No its AoE damage because he's an AoE specialist.
The other classes DONT have that as a specialty... Ergo... of COURSE he's going to be stronger in Mass Mobs.
They're not even close to the same degree the Wizard has... I've got a good 5-6 AoE damage encouters. How many do other classes have?
That's all Wizards have ever had OVER any other class. They even have significantly less Single Target Damage.
They're an AoE damage class with all the same CC components every other class has. All you're really telling me here is that they have more and larger AoEs.... NOT that they have somehow "more control".
They're just the same 1 second prones and 3 seconds stuns every other class has. The real difference is that almost all those other classes are... *shock*.... mostly Single Target damagers with lesser AoE abillities...
That's pretty much it. Its not a controller any more than any other class.
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