twstdechoMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 630Bounty Hunter
edited April 2014
It's funny, you have two basic sides forming up. Side A thinks the system is flawed and sees logic to camping/spawning, while Side 2 things camping/spawning should be eliminated.
I've read the entire thread, and still can't see how the solution I outlined on the second page doesn't fix all of these issues.
It basically removes the daily award from it's current quest form and shifts it to being earned in PvP matches. Awards Glory based on activity, and provides alternate scoring in a loss, thus people who queue for a match and do not participate do not earn Glory.
Now there is no reason to camp/hide. It serves you no purpose, and actually hurts your ability to earn Glory. There is no gain to be had in that practice. Furthermore, the people who think you should fight to the end regardless, even when pushed back to your spawn should be happy as well, because there is now a reason for those efforts, as continuing to fight even in a massively lopsided match will still reward you with Glory.
Some people might not agree with the idea of removing the leaver penalty, even for a brief period of time, in order to track the impact the changes I proposed would have. To them, I'd say so what. Ignore that portion of the proposal and focus on the rest of the changes and the impact it would have to the game. It's one, insignificant part of a larger set of changes and focusing on the minutia instead of the greater whole is silly.
The only real issue I see some people having is upping the Glory reward for the losing side. While I think Glory rewards should be upped across the board as well, upping them for the losing side gives them reason to fight. PvP gear, at least the 1st and 2nd tier, shouldn't be something that is viewed as "out of reach" for lower end PvP players. Supporting little to no PvP rewards for the losing side smacks of elitism, in my opinion, and I can't see a realistic valid reason for such a stance. Regardless, outside of that particular point, my suggestions address every concern about the PvP system that has been raised thus far, on both sides.
It's funny, you have two basic sides forming up. Side A thinks the system is flawed and sees logic to camping/spawning, while Side 2 things camping/spawning should be eliminated.
I've read the entire thread, and still can't see how the solution I outlined on the second page doesn't fix all of these issues.
It basically removes the daily award from it's current quest form and shifts it to being earned in PvP matches. Awards Glory based on activity, and provides alternate scoring in a loss, thus people who queue for a match and do not participate do not earn Glory.
Now there is no reason to camp/hide. It serves you no purpose, and actually hurts your ability to earn Glory. There is no gain to be had in that practice. Furthermore, the people who think you should fight to the end regardless, even when pushed back to your spawn should be happy as well, because there is now a reason for those efforts, as continuing to fight even in a massively lopsided match will still reward you with Glory.
Some people might not agree with the idea of removing the leaver penalty, even for a brief period of time, in order to track the impact the changes I proposed would have. To them, I'd say so what. Ignore that portion of the proposal and focus on the rest of the changes and the impact it would have to the game. It's one, insignificant part of a larger set of changes and focusing on the minutia instead of the greater whole is silly.
The only real issue I see some people having is upping the Glory reward for the losing side. While I think Glory rewards should be upped across the board as well, upping them for the losing side gives them reason to fight. PvP gear, at least the 1st and 2nd tier, shouldn't be something that is viewed as "out of reach" for lower end PvP players. Supporting little to no PvP rewards for the losing side smacks of elitism, in my opinion, and I can't see a realistic valid reason for such a stance. Regardless, outside of that particular point, my suggestions address every concern about the PvP system that has been raised thus far, on both sides.
At this point I am starting to not care. I just accept it for what it is. If the devs decide to do something, fine, if not, then that will have to be fine also. The only alternative would be to quit and go to another game, which I am not ready to do at this point.
Yeah, helping them do what? Get their Bloodthirsty title? or "help" them farm kills for glory? Yeahhhhh...NOPE
And dont tell me you jump down from the campfire just to get yo a$s beat so you can "help" them.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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bobiwanMember, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
In any event, you're not my teacher, you're not my mum, and I don't need NW PVP to teach me important life lessons.
I'm not your object for amusement.
If the shoe fits......... Grow up. I see a large amount of posters butt hurt because they will die. Deaths are meaningless in PVP, some of the closest matches, wins no less, I have been in I had a negative K/D Ratio, yet was top in points due to continual node holding and annoyance of the enemy team. 'wwaaaaaaaaah I don't wanna die!!!!!!!!!!!' Is how half the posts here read.
It's PVP. You will lose sometimes. You will die. Deal with it, or don't queue.
If the shoe fits......... Grow up. I see a large amount of posters butt hurt because they will die. Deaths are meaningless in PVP, some of the closest matches, wins no less, I have been in I had a negative K/D Ratio, yet was top in points due to continual node holding and annoyance of the enemy team. 'wwaaaaaaaaah I don't wanna die!!!!!!!!!!!' Is how half the posts here read.
It's PVP. You will lose sometimes. You will die. Deal with it.
someone thinks lopsided matches don't exist.....since someone's example is about close matches xD
someone thinks lopsided matches don't exist.....since someone's example is about close matches xD
I try to be nice. but i just had a campfire girl that styed the entire match, they didnt even bother leaving the safe zone. Ever, not once. They sat there and earned their ad, while the rest of the team tried very hard to do anything to help ourselves earn a little glory. you can try and justify your position all you want. but it hurts people who try hard every match. If i could i would pay you people to stay out of pvp.
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bobiwanMember, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
someone thinks lopsided matches don't exist.....since someone's example is about close matches xD
No, I know they exist. I don't let that faze me in the slightest, because, you can deny it all you want, but skill trumps gear.
I have no perfects nor r10's. I don't even have profound gear. I am not a perma-stealth build. I am using a build I made myself, and yet I still carry teams such as yourself that give up when the enemy has a lead, yet magically 'appear' to help when I've distracted the enemy team so much that the snowball has been reversed. I have done this against entire premade teams with perfects/r10's, with a queue PUG as a team.
Yes, I know these lopsided matches well, and I also know the reason they ARE so lopsided. People who throw the match, not gear.
I try to be nice. but i just had a campfire girl that styed the entire match, they didnt even bother leaving the safe zone. Ever, not once. They sat there and earned their ad, while the rest of the team tried very hard to do anything to help ourselves earn a little glory. you can try and justify your position all you want. but it hurts people who try hard every match. If i could i would pay you people to stay out of pvp.
never said i ever gave up from the beginning. i give up when it truly is pointless, as my last few matches showed. 1 match there was an afk right from start like yours, another my entire team seemed clueless and left me to fight mid alone and we never recovered from it, etc. whole bunch of weirdness too as the enemy teams were barely fighting as well.....
usually takes longer to see if it's impossible to win, but not having much luck today.
No, I know they exist. I don't let that faze me in the slightest, because, you can deny it all you want, but skill trumps gear.
I have no perfects nor r10's. I don't even have profound gear. I am not a perma-stealth build. I am using a build I made myself, and yet I still carry teams such as yourself that give up when the enemy has a lead, yet magically 'appear' to help when I've distracted the enemy team so much that the snowball has been reversed. I have done this against entire premade teams with perfects/r10's, with a queue PUG as a team.
Yes, I know these lopsided matches well, and I also know the reason they ARE so lopsided. People who throw the match, not gear.
nobody has ever proven to me that a non-perma 8k gs can even do well against 13k+ gs players
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bobiwanMember, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
nobody has ever proven to me that a non-perma 8k gs can even do well against 13k+ gs players
My apologies, it seems I didn't get that memo. Nobody has been able to prove to me they can't, when I was still at that gs at least, having gained some grim gear since.
I'm sorry if your average combat rogue is a glass cannon, that was a build choice, really. They can be very tanky, while not losing much, if any, of the single-target damage they are capable of.
My apologies, it seems I didn't get that memo. Nobody has been able to prove to me they can't.
I'm sorry if your average combat rogue is a glass cannon, that was a build choice, really. They can be very tanky.
never said i was 8k and lol.....
but u really think that an 8k who likely has no set bonus, few (if any) epics, 1 green starter artifact is really gonna beat people in full purples, rank 7+ enchants, pvp artifact, perfect enchants, etc?
and i didn't mean just rogues. i meant any class :P. i was just pointing out that permas don't count
never said i ever gave up from the beginning. i give up when it truly is pointless, as my last few matches showed. 1 match there was an afk right from start like yours, another my entire team seemed clueless and left me to fight mid alone and we never recovered from it, etc. whole bunch of weirdness too as the enemy teams were barely fighting as well.....
usually takes longer to see if it's impossible to win, but not having much luck today.
nobody has ever proven to me that a non-perma 8k gs can even do well against 13k+ gs players
your character says otherwise. I am sorry, but I don't believe you.
^there u go......would of given u the gateway, but it doesn't show gs and the stats seemed off anyways
If you are basing your experience as a rogue on that, no, it would not survive what I put it through(quite often 1v3-5's lol), at min you would need to take that dex overflow from level via a respec and put it into CON. The cleric can get away often with lowish HP. A combat rogue cannot. One could even argue this is why combat rogues melt permas. Stealth, again, is your weakest defense. Once it's gone, if it, and damage, is all you've invested in, you are toast, butter under the blade. It's not hard for a TR to destealth another, really, even one invested in perma. Further, the loss of damage for that specific change remains really quite minimal.
Do you really need all that crit if you cannot bring it to bear because you melt on sight? Is that extra +2% deflect worth +2% HP, really? Food for thought.
Additional food for thought: Many classes can 2-shot, if not 1-shot your HP(this would have to be exceptional circumstances with procs, for example, a TR just hit all 4 of your teammates with a whirlwind of blades, then hit you with a lashing blade with an ITC press the advantage active, but still...), in blues, with encounters.
I'm sorry, but if you actually want to be competitive in anything you have to put some thought into it, not walk in and wonder why you melt when XYZ class fires off it's trick.
FYI, my actual RL job amounts to problem solver. I view each player as the enemy team as a problem, with contesting or defending the nodes as the solution, and apply my knowledge of their tactics as I gain it to my own tactics. This is why I view K/D as irrelevant, if I even have a chance to contest the node for long enough for my team to do something, even if it's a 1v5 fight, and means my imminent death at some point, I will try to. I get kills, but the bodies amassed are irrelevant. Sorry if that sounds cold, just my logical approach to the game mode. As a result, with the goal being to stay alive as long as possible while contesting/capturing the nodes, defensive building is a no-brainer, and glass cannon is a sure and swift demise, at least in a PUG.
This situation would be funnier translated into pve terms,
You don't think people have quit dungeons because they've been wiped for the 8th time at the same boss? Why would you waste 30 injury kits and another hour when you know you simply cannot beat the boss with the current composition? Same applies to lopsided PVP matches. Why keep on jumping down when you are getting spawn-camped? Why keep on trying to cap a node when your previous 20 attempts to do so have resulted in 20 deaths? What are you learning? What are you gaining? Don't tell me it will make me a better PVP player. Dying in 20 seconds in a 4v1 where I can't even raise my shield because I am under so much CC + prones doesn't teach me a thing.
PSA: You don't need to grind Spinward Rise for your Elemental artifact main hand if you have some AD lying around. You can craft it via the Tyranny of Dragon's campaign screen.
Why do you think people complain about twinks in 10 - 59 PVP? Exactly. A 13/14/15k player in full-PVP gear vs an 8k player is the same as a twink trolling PVP in 10 - 59. When he pops his purple/legendary Waters or Emblem there goes all your hard work trying to kill him. When that PVorpal-wielding Sent rips into your 8k CW/TR/HR, buh bye. Those high-geared, well played Sents can destroy my GF (3.7k defence, 1.2k deflec, 1k regen, 700 tenacity). Your under-geared squishy is gonna die fast and you are not going to hurt that Sent either.
PSA: You don't need to grind Spinward Rise for your Elemental artifact main hand if you have some AD lying around. You can craft it via the Tyranny of Dragon's campaign screen.
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bobiwanMember, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
To a point. Let's take the user that I replied to as an example: http://i1170.photobucket.com/albums/r535/SoulDragonClaw/Steam/Neverwinter/rogueStats.png
His chest piece, the normal enchant slot, not the armor enchant slot.
This, is far too common, in PVP, and I have 0 sympathy for it.
Rank 4 'uncommon' Enchantments drop all over the Realms like candy, and yet I see an endless stream of PUG players who don't even bother to slot THAT into their gear, empty normal enchantment slots all over the place. What, exactly, can one expect when they sign up for suicide like that?
If you are basing your experience as a rogue on that, no, it would not survive what I put it through(quite often 1v3-5's lol), at min you would need to take that dex overflow from level via a respec and put it into CON. The cleric can get away often with lowish HP. A combat rogue cannot. One could even argue this is why combat rogues melt permas. Stealth, again, is your weakest defense. Once it's gone, if it, and damage, is all you've invested in, you are toast, butter under the blade. It's not hard for a TR to destealth another, really, even one invested in perma. Further, the loss of damage for that specific change remains really quite minimal.
Do you really need all that crit if you cannot bring it to bear because you melt on sight? Is that extra +2% deflect worth +2% HP, really? Food for thought.
Additional food for thought: Many classes can 2-shot, if not 1-shot your HP(this would have to be exceptional circumstances with procs, for example, a TR just hit all 4 of your teammates with a whirlwind of blades, then hit you with a lashing blade with an ITC press the advantage active, but still...), in blues, with encounters.
I'm sorry, but if you actually want to be competitive in anything you have to put some thought into it, not walk in and wonder why you melt when XYZ class fires off it's trick.
FYI, my actual RL job amounts to problem solver. I view each player as the enemy team as a problem, with contesting or defending the nodes as the solution, and apply my knowledge of their tactics as I gain it to my own tactics. This is why I view K/D as irrelevant, if I even have a chance to contest the node for long enough for my team to do something, even if it's a 1v5 fight, and means my imminent death at some point, I will try to. I get kills, but the bodies amassed are irrelevant. Sorry if that sounds cold, just my logical approach to the game mode. As a result, with the goal being to stay alive as long as possible while contesting/capturing the nodes, defensive building is a no-brainer, and glass cannon is a sure and swift demise, at least in a PUG.
u know, i never said i had trouble surviving but u seem to keep jumping on that for some reason. i only die because of being outnumbered or a gwf/guardian decides to chase me with prones.
and 8% hp would probably just give me an extra 2k hp. to me, the loss of 2% deflect would hurt as 38% deflect is more noticeable than 41%. i don't consider full hp builds as the only viable defensive build and it's not like i am in premades where everyone has 30k+ hp from stacking radiants. i also like my 43% crit rate and i consider it more valuable than a couple thousand hp.
and no rogue has ever hit higher than 9k on me with lashing, if i don't dodge it since it's usually obvious when most do it. the hyped path of blades is not really gonna hurt me either since it must only be good for the ap gain.
i can understand gwf's being able to kill me in seconds with their vorpals as i have run into 1 that killed me in a single prone-chain. i can understand rogues since most just rely on execution, but i doubt a non-perma can actually kill me without it. wizards usually hit 2k-9k with their ice knives. hunters spam low-hit shots and their fox shift is only a threat because they can repeat it almost twice in a row and i likely can't dodge the 2nd one.
ps: since i have shown my character, it's obvious that i am not a glass cannon or an 8k non-perma.....so gl trying to test that out.
pss: i have killed people from 100%-0 when i started the fight at 10-20% hp. i am far far tankier than the people i get matched with.
To a point. Let's take the user that I replied to as an example: http://i1170.photobucket.com/albums/r535/SoulDragonClaw/Steam/Neverwinter/rogueStats.png
His chest piece, the normal enchant slot, not the armor enchant slot.
This, is far too common, in PVP, and I have 0 sympathy for it.
Rank 4 'uncommon' Enchantments drop all over the Realms like candy, and yet I see an endless stream of PUG players who don't even bother to slot THAT into their gear, empty normal enchantment slots all over the place. What, exactly, can one expect when they sign up for suicide like that?
eh, i just left that empty after switching armors as i never really depended on that slot. also wasn't sure if that armor was gonna be more viable than my previous so i left my enchant in it.
To a point. Let's take the user that I replied to as an example: http://i1170.photobucket.com/albums/r535/SoulDragonClaw/Steam/Neverwinter/rogueStats.png
His chest piece, the normal enchant slot, not the armor enchant slot.
This, is far too common, in PVP, and I have 0 sympathy for it.
Rank 4 'uncommon' Enchantments drop all over the Realms like candy, and yet I see an endless stream of PUG players who don't even bother to slot THAT into their gear, empty normal enchantment slots all over the place. What, exactly, can one expect when they sign up for suicide like that?
I understand what you are saying, but an 8k with even a R6/7 dark, radiant or silvery is hardly gonna stand a better chance against a 13/14/15k DPS-class in PVP. By filling all your slots you can get to what, 9k with all R6s? Still no chance against a fully-geared PVP player. Even if you are skilled you won't be able to hurt him fast enough and you won't be able to stay around for long if he starts catching you.
PSA: You don't need to grind Spinward Rise for your Elemental artifact main hand if you have some AD lying around. You can craft it via the Tyranny of Dragon's campaign screen.
The big trend going on at the highest levels of PVP is being tanky. 17k GS, 45k HP, 3000 defense GWF with legendary artifacts, perfect barkshield/soulforge and emblem of seldarine to pretty much go back to full health while you waste your encounters.
There is no way a 10k GS player will be able to even get him to 50% health
The big trend going on at the highest levels of PVP is being tanky. 17k GS, 45k HP, 3000 defense GWF with legendary artifacts, perfect barkshield/soulforge and emblem of seldarine to pretty much go back to full health while you waste your encounters.
There is no way a 10k GS player will be able to even get him to 50% health
I am thinking I will never be good enough to meet up with someone like this. Even if I grind all the gear, my skill is damaged by my hand problems, so being average is my lot, but. I don't mind too much because there are some good fights in average league. I wish there were a spectator mode so we could watch some of the high end players duke it out, but the lag would interfere. Does anyone know a top tier pvp group that youtubes? I wish to learn.
I am thinking I will never be good enough to meet up with someone like this. Even if I grind all the gear, my skill is damaged by my hand problems, so being average is my lot, but. I don't mind too much because there are some good fights in average league. I wish there were a spectator mode so we could watch some of the high end players duke it out, but the lag would interfere. Does anyone know a top tier pvp group that youtubes? I wish to learn.
Go on twitch. I suggest one for you, Freeskier428 is a GWF in synergy. He also streams late at night if you want to see him playing live
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beckylunaticMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 14,231Arc User
edited April 2014
Svetlana Anejska streams on Twitch too, under Sv3tya.
I am thinking I will never be good enough to meet up with someone like this. Even if I grind all the gear, my skill is damaged by my hand problems, so being average is my lot, but. I don't mind too much because there are some good fights in average league. I wish there were a spectator mode so we could watch some of the high end players duke it out, but the lag would interfere. Does anyone know a top tier pvp group that youtubes? I wish to learn.
I'll never be more than a well-geared player because I do not have the time to invest in intense grinding and I have no interest in becoming a credit card warrior. So normals and R6/7s will be my lot. I too am happy and really do enjoy the balanced matches I have against average Joes. But until ELO-matchmaking is well and truly in effect I'm not going to submit myself to perma-dying when I come across players 3/4k my superior with R8s+, purple/legendary artifacts and PEnchants. There is just now way that anybody benefits or learns from it.
PSA: You don't need to grind Spinward Rise for your Elemental artifact main hand if you have some AD lying around. You can craft it via the Tyranny of Dragon's campaign screen.
i have read all posts.The thread evolved into a general conversation about pvp ,emotions during it,human behaviour and reaction to it in losing or winning.And i find this good.
I pvp the last 2 months ,and from beta since feywild launch.
my observations about snowball effect in pvp domination and the things told here:
1.Skill plays little role between two gs different bracket players.it is a myth that with skill you can beat a severely overgeared enemy toon.if you use your max effective combination of your class feats/traits you can hope to beat a toon up to 2-2,5k gs higher.prequisitive to do so is to be lucky and the other player to be inexperienced in general or against your type of rotation skills.Other than that you simply cannot.Whoever says that with a 12k gs toon you can beat a 16gs toon a) he is a lier for his own reasons b) he has no clue.
2.If the score is 500-0,800-125 or whatever there is no way to beat them.Whoever says so he is plain wrong.As mentioned by staggy and others 500-0 is there for a reason.And the reason is that your team8s are killed lightning fast by enemy team.In a game mode determined by killing and holding ground for a given amount of time that means that you cannot do neither of these.game is lost.
3.In such conditions seeing a team8 staying in campfires is acceptable for me.
4.Sadly the mid and above level of pvp is having a number of trolls.troll for me in pvp is the guy that spawns in the home area of the defeated team or chase them in hotenow beneath their spawning point.
These guys take pleasure from killing undergeared players.They do it for fun.All the rubish said " we do it for game" are just lies.No normal person will attack someone 4vs 1 while the score is 800-100.Plain and simple.
5.Superior tactics can work but in covering a 2-2,5k gs dinstance between them and your team.over than that even if you use "superior" tactics you will lose match.tactics is of little value if you cannot simply 3vs1 kill one enemy in reasonable time.
6.The worst behaviour in pvp is no surprisingly shown by spesific classes.no surprise here this is an RPGish type of game after all even if it is a MMO.You roleplay something you like or wish to be.
The manga japanese/FFIX type of class with a two handed sword that runs arount rampant with sprint in domination matches is usually the most aggresive ,and the iniater in attacking people in 800-125 or refuging to trade caps.Followed by a great dinstance by TR ,then CW/HR.Not surprisingly i have met none GF or cleric that participated in these types of "gameplay".
7.Pvp is an aggresive brutal type of gameplay and one must be aware that each type he queues he can end up in a mismatched match.or against a trolling team.Be prepared and do not expect conveniences or politeness.
8.Pvp is a mirror of human behaviour.Same people that accuse spesific behavious might do the same if they have the chance a day or 2 after.It is the crowd/pack mentality.Everyone attacks the poor CW he has 21k hp he is just here for the artifact.Why not me/??Kill him!!!!
9.Morale plays a great role in close matches.Kill their assets first for 2-3 times and after they tend to avoid you.Every one goes after the easy prey and easy glory.
10.Eveyone uses his max effectiness of rotations.When the CW immobilizes the GF and chokes him so the GWf can finish him off,then that cw type of play is "effective" "briliant" and apropriate.When the GF does LS/Bull Charge FS,then the GF is lame and prone spammer.Or easy mod.
Comments
I've read the entire thread, and still can't see how the solution I outlined on the second page doesn't fix all of these issues.
It basically removes the daily award from it's current quest form and shifts it to being earned in PvP matches. Awards Glory based on activity, and provides alternate scoring in a loss, thus people who queue for a match and do not participate do not earn Glory.
Now there is no reason to camp/hide. It serves you no purpose, and actually hurts your ability to earn Glory. There is no gain to be had in that practice. Furthermore, the people who think you should fight to the end regardless, even when pushed back to your spawn should be happy as well, because there is now a reason for those efforts, as continuing to fight even in a massively lopsided match will still reward you with Glory.
Some people might not agree with the idea of removing the leaver penalty, even for a brief period of time, in order to track the impact the changes I proposed would have. To them, I'd say so what. Ignore that portion of the proposal and focus on the rest of the changes and the impact it would have to the game. It's one, insignificant part of a larger set of changes and focusing on the minutia instead of the greater whole is silly.
The only real issue I see some people having is upping the Glory reward for the losing side. While I think Glory rewards should be upped across the board as well, upping them for the losing side gives them reason to fight. PvP gear, at least the 1st and 2nd tier, shouldn't be something that is viewed as "out of reach" for lower end PvP players. Supporting little to no PvP rewards for the losing side smacks of elitism, in my opinion, and I can't see a realistic valid reason for such a stance. Regardless, outside of that particular point, my suggestions address every concern about the PvP system that has been raised thus far, on both sides.
At this point I am starting to not care. I just accept it for what it is. If the devs decide to do something, fine, if not, then that will have to be fine also. The only alternative would be to quit and go to another game, which I am not ready to do at this point.
Yeah, helping them do what? Get their Bloodthirsty title? or "help" them farm kills for glory? Yeahhhhh...NOPE
And dont tell me you jump down from the campfire just to get yo a$s beat so you can "help" them.
It's PVP. You will lose sometimes. You will die. Deal with it, or don't queue.
someone thinks lopsided matches don't exist.....since someone's example is about close matches xD
I try to be nice. but i just had a campfire girl that styed the entire match, they didnt even bother leaving the safe zone. Ever, not once. They sat there and earned their ad, while the rest of the team tried very hard to do anything to help ourselves earn a little glory. you can try and justify your position all you want. but it hurts people who try hard every match. If i could i would pay you people to stay out of pvp.
I have no perfects nor r10's. I don't even have profound gear. I am not a perma-stealth build. I am using a build I made myself, and yet I still carry teams such as yourself that give up when the enemy has a lead, yet magically 'appear' to help when I've distracted the enemy team so much that the snowball has been reversed. I have done this against entire premade teams with perfects/r10's, with a queue PUG as a team.
Yes, I know these lopsided matches well, and I also know the reason they ARE so lopsided. People who throw the match, not gear.
never said i ever gave up from the beginning. i give up when it truly is pointless, as my last few matches showed. 1 match there was an afk right from start like yours, another my entire team seemed clueless and left me to fight mid alone and we never recovered from it, etc. whole bunch of weirdness too as the enemy teams were barely fighting as well.....
usually takes longer to see if it's impossible to win, but not having much luck today.
nobody has ever proven to me that a non-perma 8k gs can even do well against 13k+ gs players
I'm sorry if your average combat rogue is a glass cannon, that was a build choice, really. They can be very tanky, while not losing much, if any, of the single-target damage they are capable of.
never said i was 8k and lol.....
but u really think that an 8k who likely has no set bonus, few (if any) epics, 1 green starter artifact is really gonna beat people in full purples, rank 7+ enchants, pvp artifact, perfect enchants, etc?
and i didn't mean just rogues. i meant any class :P. i was just pointing out that permas don't count
your character says otherwise. I am sorry, but I don't believe you.
huh?
my rogue is 13k and my cleric is 11k >.>
do i need to provide pics or something o.o
edit: http://i1170.photobucket.com/albums/r535/SoulDragonClaw/Steam/Neverwinter/rogueStats.png
^there u go......would of given u the gateway, but it doesn't show gs and the stats seemed off anyways
Do you really need all that crit if you cannot bring it to bear because you melt on sight? Is that extra +2% deflect worth +2% HP, really? Food for thought.
Additional food for thought: Many classes can 2-shot, if not 1-shot your HP(this would have to be exceptional circumstances with procs, for example, a TR just hit all 4 of your teammates with a whirlwind of blades, then hit you with a lashing blade with an ITC press the advantage active, but still...), in blues, with encounters.
I'm sorry, but if you actually want to be competitive in anything you have to put some thought into it, not walk in and wonder why you melt when XYZ class fires off it's trick.
FYI, my actual RL job amounts to problem solver. I view each player as the enemy team as a problem, with contesting or defending the nodes as the solution, and apply my knowledge of their tactics as I gain it to my own tactics. This is why I view K/D as irrelevant, if I even have a chance to contest the node for long enough for my team to do something, even if it's a 1v5 fight, and means my imminent death at some point, I will try to. I get kills, but the bodies amassed are irrelevant. Sorry if that sounds cold, just my logical approach to the game mode. As a result, with the goal being to stay alive as long as possible while contesting/capturing the nodes, defensive building is a no-brainer, and glass cannon is a sure and swift demise, at least in a PUG.
Personal character.
You don't think people have quit dungeons because they've been wiped for the 8th time at the same boss? Why would you waste 30 injury kits and another hour when you know you simply cannot beat the boss with the current composition? Same applies to lopsided PVP matches. Why keep on jumping down when you are getting spawn-camped? Why keep on trying to cap a node when your previous 20 attempts to do so have resulted in 20 deaths? What are you learning? What are you gaining? Don't tell me it will make me a better PVP player. Dying in 20 seconds in a 4v1 where I can't even raise my shield because I am under so much CC + prones doesn't teach me a thing.
Rubbish.
Why do you think people complain about twinks in 10 - 59 PVP? Exactly. A 13/14/15k player in full-PVP gear vs an 8k player is the same as a twink trolling PVP in 10 - 59. When he pops his purple/legendary Waters or Emblem there goes all your hard work trying to kill him. When that PVorpal-wielding Sent rips into your 8k CW/TR/HR, buh bye. Those high-geared, well played Sents can destroy my GF (3.7k defence, 1.2k deflec, 1k regen, 700 tenacity). Your under-geared squishy is gonna die fast and you are not going to hurt that Sent either.
His chest piece, the normal enchant slot, not the armor enchant slot.
This, is far too common, in PVP, and I have 0 sympathy for it.
Rank 4 'uncommon' Enchantments drop all over the Realms like candy, and yet I see an endless stream of PUG players who don't even bother to slot THAT into their gear, empty normal enchantment slots all over the place. What, exactly, can one expect when they sign up for suicide like that?
u know, i never said i had trouble surviving but u seem to keep jumping on that for some reason. i only die because of being outnumbered or a gwf/guardian decides to chase me with prones.
and 8% hp would probably just give me an extra 2k hp. to me, the loss of 2% deflect would hurt as 38% deflect is more noticeable than 41%. i don't consider full hp builds as the only viable defensive build and it's not like i am in premades where everyone has 30k+ hp from stacking radiants. i also like my 43% crit rate and i consider it more valuable than a couple thousand hp.
and no rogue has ever hit higher than 9k on me with lashing, if i don't dodge it since it's usually obvious when most do it. the hyped path of blades is not really gonna hurt me either since it must only be good for the ap gain.
i can understand gwf's being able to kill me in seconds with their vorpals as i have run into 1 that killed me in a single prone-chain. i can understand rogues since most just rely on execution, but i doubt a non-perma can actually kill me without it. wizards usually hit 2k-9k with their ice knives. hunters spam low-hit shots and their fox shift is only a threat because they can repeat it almost twice in a row and i likely can't dodge the 2nd one.
ps: since i have shown my character, it's obvious that i am not a glass cannon or an 8k non-perma.....so gl trying to test that out.
pss: i have killed people from 100%-0 when i started the fight at 10-20% hp. i am far far tankier than the people i get matched with.
eh, i just left that empty after switching armors as i never really depended on that slot. also wasn't sure if that armor was gonna be more viable than my previous so i left my enchant in it.
i still don't know what u mean
I understand what you are saying, but an 8k with even a R6/7 dark, radiant or silvery is hardly gonna stand a better chance against a 13/14/15k DPS-class in PVP. By filling all your slots you can get to what, 9k with all R6s? Still no chance against a fully-geared PVP player. Even if you are skilled you won't be able to hurt him fast enough and you won't be able to stay around for long if he starts catching you.
There is no way a 10k GS player will be able to even get him to 50% health
I am thinking I will never be good enough to meet up with someone like this. Even if I grind all the gear, my skill is damaged by my hand problems, so being average is my lot, but. I don't mind too much because there are some good fights in average league. I wish there were a spectator mode so we could watch some of the high end players duke it out, but the lag would interfere. Does anyone know a top tier pvp group that youtubes? I wish to learn.
Go on twitch. I suggest one for you, Freeskier428 is a GWF in synergy. He also streams late at night if you want to see him playing live
Neverwinter Census 2017
All posts pending disapproval by Cecilia
I'll never be more than a well-geared player because I do not have the time to invest in intense grinding and I have no interest in becoming a credit card warrior. So normals and R6/7s will be my lot. I too am happy and really do enjoy the balanced matches I have against average Joes. But until ELO-matchmaking is well and truly in effect I'm not going to submit myself to perma-dying when I come across players 3/4k my superior with R8s+, purple/legendary artifacts and PEnchants. There is just now way that anybody benefits or learns from it.
I pvp the last 2 months ,and from beta since feywild launch.
my observations about snowball effect in pvp domination and the things told here:
1.Skill plays little role between two gs different bracket players.it is a myth that with skill you can beat a severely overgeared enemy toon.if you use your max effective combination of your class feats/traits you can hope to beat a toon up to 2-2,5k gs higher.prequisitive to do so is to be lucky and the other player to be inexperienced in general or against your type of rotation skills.Other than that you simply cannot.Whoever says that with a 12k gs toon you can beat a 16gs toon a) he is a lier for his own reasons b) he has no clue.
2.If the score is 500-0,800-125 or whatever there is no way to beat them.Whoever says so he is plain wrong.As mentioned by staggy and others 500-0 is there for a reason.And the reason is that your team8s are killed lightning fast by enemy team.In a game mode determined by killing and holding ground for a given amount of time that means that you cannot do neither of these.game is lost.
3.In such conditions seeing a team8 staying in campfires is acceptable for me.
4.Sadly the mid and above level of pvp is having a number of trolls.troll for me in pvp is the guy that spawns in the home area of the defeated team or chase them in hotenow beneath their spawning point.
These guys take pleasure from killing undergeared players.They do it for fun.All the rubish said " we do it for game" are just lies.No normal person will attack someone 4vs 1 while the score is 800-100.Plain and simple.
5.Superior tactics can work but in covering a 2-2,5k gs dinstance between them and your team.over than that even if you use "superior" tactics you will lose match.tactics is of little value if you cannot simply 3vs1 kill one enemy in reasonable time.
6.The worst behaviour in pvp is no surprisingly shown by spesific classes.no surprise here this is an RPGish type of game after all even if it is a MMO.You roleplay something you like or wish to be.
The manga japanese/FFIX type of class with a two handed sword that runs arount rampant with sprint in domination matches is usually the most aggresive ,and the iniater in attacking people in 800-125 or refuging to trade caps.Followed by a great dinstance by TR ,then CW/HR.Not surprisingly i have met none GF or cleric that participated in these types of "gameplay".
7.Pvp is an aggresive brutal type of gameplay and one must be aware that each type he queues he can end up in a mismatched match.or against a trolling team.Be prepared and do not expect conveniences or politeness.
8.Pvp is a mirror of human behaviour.Same people that accuse spesific behavious might do the same if they have the chance a day or 2 after.It is the crowd/pack mentality.Everyone attacks the poor CW he has 21k hp he is just here for the artifact.Why not me/??Kill him!!!!
9.Morale plays a great role in close matches.Kill their assets first for 2-3 times and after they tend to avoid you.Every one goes after the easy prey and easy glory.
10.Eveyone uses his max effectiness of rotations.When the CW immobilizes the GF and chokes him so the GWf can finish him off,then that cw type of play is "effective" "briliant" and apropriate.When the GF does LS/Bull Charge FS,then the GF is lame and prone spammer.Or easy mod.
I thought he wanted to watch high end pvp.