well, at wills are something to do between encounters used to proc buffs. Your at will does very little DPS overall, so that is normal.
Fanning the flame is complciated, and has 3 parts. I am not entirely sure how each part is calculated yet.
Drifting embers is nice if you use fanning in sing. On thaum you wouldn't put it on tab. In renegade, you can try fanning on tab. The main drawback is that fanning has much less AP gain than conduit or icy terrian, so you might need more recovery and/or use controlling action.
Smolder does change to rimfire pretty quick, but it's hard to tell in the long if this interrupts it or if the tick finishes - that said smolder is very nice damage on MoF. I wouldn't call it a problem, but it's something i hope they fix.
You can use scorching burst as a quick lifesteal, or to dot things with smolder, or maybe to open if everything is on cooldown. That said, i really only use chilling cloud PvE. Hope that helps.
From all my test, Fanning the Flame is a very powerfull single target spell, with some good AOE when put on tab. But it do take a few second to dealt full damage.
What does it do ?
1- it put a powerfull dot for 5s on the main target
2- the main target take more damage if mob with smolder on are near (the distance is equivalent of the one between 2 dummy). I haven't tested but I think this is limited to the 5 nearest mobs with smolder.
3- if the mob with smolder on die near the main target, it explode and dealing damage to the main target.
4- on tab, it put Smolder up to 5 targets (main + 4)
5- on tab, it put a DOT on 4 other targets. I don't know if the smolder "siphoning" work on it too put I think that it wasn't the case.
For extra damage, #2 & #3 are equal to 50% of the smolder damage. And for #5, I think it's 50% of the man dot damage.
Use and optimisation :
If used on tab, it will put Smolder so Drifting Ember is redondant.
If used with Icy Terrain, IT will put smolder on more target than Drifting Ember.
It's one of the most powerful DPS spell but it need at least 4 other targets for max effect.
It work wonderfully on applying debuff on multiple target.
Limitation :
It's not an AOE spell, so Wizard Wrath, Focused Wizardry and Evocation don't work.
It have a very limited list of Feat that increase it damage : Learned Spellcaster, Prestidigitation, Bitter Cold, Tempest Magic and Malevolent Surge.
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chemboy613Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,521Arc User
Hi Chemboy! thanks for your guide.. teamwork speaks.. I've been a dps SS/thaum CW the past couple of months and decided to change into this style(kinda harsh doing high dps but less survivability due to damage concentrated stats).. Pure debuff + control = great team damage boost..
I tweaked a bit in your build(I am using GPF instead of P.Terror).
I go with FtF on tab, COi, Icy and Shard on encounter.. still on experimenting phase with the skills, but SMOOTH CN RUNS so far..
Btw, got your build from nano
~Sibuyas
GPF is excellent option as well,
This is an interesting bar as well. Some people don't like the cast time of steal time and are testing bars similar to this. I think it's valid in multiple CW parties, but if i was the only CW i wouldn't give up the control. It really depends on the situation.
From all my test, Fanning the Flame is a very powerfull single target spell, with some good AOE when put on tab. But it do take a few second to dealt full damage.
What does it do ?
1- it put a powerfull dot for 5s on the main target
2- the main target take more damage if mob with smolder on are near (the distance is equivalent of the one between 2 dummy). I haven't tested but I think this is limited to the 5 nearest mobs with smolder.
3- if the mob with smolder on die near the main target, it explode and dealing damage to the main target.
4- on tab, it put Smolder up to 5 targets (main + 4)
5- on tab, it put a DOT on 4 other targets. I don't know if the smolder "siphoning" work on it too put I think that it wasn't the case.
For extra damage, #2 & #3 are equal to 50% of the smolder damage. And for #5, I think it's 50% of the man dot damage.
Use and optimisation :
If used on tab, it will put Smolder so Drifting Ember is redondant.
If used with Icy Terrain, IT will put smolder on more target than Drifting Ember.
It's one of the most powerful DPS spell but it need at least 4 other targets for max effect.
It work wonderfully on applying debuff on multiple target.
Limitation :
It's not an AOE spell, so Wizard Wrath, Focused Wizardry and Evocation don't work.
It have a very limited list of Feat that increase it damage : Learned Spellcaster, Prestidigitation, Bitter Cold, Tempest Magic and Malevolent Surge.
Thanks for the rundown, i don't use FtF much personally as it's not my style, but i still think the damage is very nice.
The people who are testing it remind me it is _very_ important to use it within a sing or a big group. If the mobs are spread out, it's usefulness is mitigated.
Most people who are using it (meaning 2-3 people) are putting conduit on tab still, fanning on an encounter, taking drifting embers and casting it in sing.
The drawbacks are a) lack of control and b) lack of AP gain. However, if you have multiple CWs, then this isn't a problem.
I have counted up damage from smoulder and... I fear this thing, it is THE most damaging single target skill out here.
First of all, the reference. My Tier 3 Magic Missiles deal 621 damage per hit as listed. Chill Strike is 3080 damage. Tier 2 Ice Knife is 8160 dmg. This is listed to give you the basic understanding of my average damage. No procs were caused beforehand, no HV and no crits done.
To the main target, it dealed 6587 dmg in 5 ticks (1st tick deals 2x dmg, then the other ticks). Also, Fanned Flame give 1370 dmg per target affected in 4 ticks. Same dmg is done to the targets, the flame was gathered from. Also, smoulder is activated (when on TAB), 4 ticks doing 2000 DMG.
So, in somewhat perfect conditions with main target and 5 burning targets around it, it will dish out 15447 dmg to main target and 1372 to burning targets. Wel... 15447 dmg in 5 seconds before any modifiers sounds very scary, doesn't it? Also, mind that it benefits from Arcane Mastery stacks.
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chemboy613Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,521Arc User
edited March 2014
Yeah the damage is really great, but you have to hit the right guy in the right time at the right situation to get the most out if it. I don't use personally because I really prefer my control bar, but when well used fanning a damage is great.
Ok, I have tried MoF Renegade build. While FtF on TAB is fun and stuff, there is simply no reliable way to proc renegade's effects, no real synergy. Respecced to Thaum MoF (and still have 1 respec saved for a fallback). Thaum deals some damage, looks really better. Still haven't figured out the best spell rotation for me though.
So, all in all, Renegade MoF does not look like it has a future.
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chemboy613Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,521Arc User
edited March 2014
Yeah, it's not as viable.
I think MoF/Opressor might be cool for a pure PvP build, but CW's in PvP?
MoF/Thaum is very effective in PvE if it suits your playstyle. I don't like being force into one tree, but i can't find an argument for any other.
Ok, I have tried MoF Renegade build. While FtF on TAB is fun and stuff, there is simply no reliable way to proc renegade's effects, no real synergy. Respecced to Thaum MoF (and still have 1 respec saved for a fallback). Thaum deals some damage, looks really better. Still haven't figured out the best spell rotation for me though.
So, all in all, Renegade MoF does not look like it has a future.
What did you use for Renegade exactly, and what breakdown? I have a link to what I'm using in my signature, it's a halfling MoF Renegade. Build works tremendously well for not being a thaum, and I regularly give Thaum's a run for their money with an aggressive playstyle...
Not trying to hijack or anything, but flat out saying it doesn't have a future is a bold stance to make IMO.
MoF/Thaum CWSS/Thaum CWIV/Protector GFSW/Combat HRSM/Destroyer GWFWK/Executioner TRDO/Faithful DC
Furious Immolation is now able to critically hit and its damage has been reduced by 30%.
Foundry - Fight Club? (nw-dluqbofu7)
- JailBreak (in development)
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ironzerg79Member, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,942Arc User
edited March 2014
Nothing. Still having a target cap lower than Singularity just doesn't make it exciting enough to put on the action bar. It's damage would have to be bumped up significantly for me to consider it.
Nothing. Still having a target cap lower than Singularity just doesn't make it exciting enough to put on the action bar. It's damage would have to be bumped up significantly for me to consider it.
At this point in lvling my MOF CW I haven't assigned any pts on this daily yet. As far as I can tell most people seem to think around the same. No dmg, no crit, no targets. Even with the ability to crit, dropping the dmg on 8 monsters doesn't seem that great.
Foundry - Fight Club? (nw-dluqbofu7)
- JailBreak (in development)
Nothing. Still having a target cap lower than Singularity just doesn't make it exciting enough to put on the action bar. It's damage would have to be bumped up significantly for me to consider it.
I have a feeling that instead of raising the cap on FI they are going to lower the caps on other abilities. I suppose it is possible that they will "normalize" the caps to a specific number based on the type of power, such as 10 for an AOE daily or 5 for an AOE encounter, but that is pure speculation on my part.
But based on the comments of the devs about "looking into CWS" I suspect a pretty significant change to CWs after mod 3 comes out, luckily that might be a while.
I have a feeling that instead of raising the cap on FI they are going to lower the caps on other abilities. I suppose it is possible that they will "normalize" the caps to a specific number based on the type of power, such as 10 for an AOE daily or 5 for an AOE encounter, but that is pure speculation on my part.
But based on the comments of the devs about "looking into CWS" I suspect a pretty significant change to CWs after mod 3 comes out, luckily that might be a while.
This is probably why they haven't fixed Arp on all our spells as well. Doesn't really matter...we will adapt.
Just want to ask if you have ever compared the dps of p.vorp, p.terror and gpf for this build. If you are only leaning on your own dps not the team's dps, which wep enchantment would you go for?
Just want to ask if you have ever compared the dps of p.vorp, p.terror and gpf for this build. If you are only leaning on your own dps not the team's dps, which wep enchantment would you go for?
Buff/Debuff synergy - Once you have enough control, then it is important to buff your team and debuff the mobs. This is why a P. Terror or plaguefire is better than a P.Vorpal for this build. A P.Vorpal increases personal DPS by 15% (for me), whereas a P.Terror increases my dps 5% with weapon damage, then increases everyone’s DPS 4%. Since 4% of team DPS is greater than 10% of personal DPS, the vorpal is not efficient for anything except looking cool and winning paingiver.
StrawberryCheesecake TR BlackberryCheesecake CW
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] CheeseCake House
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chemboy613Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,521Arc User
edited September 2014
Hey everyone, i am back and playing casually - it seems the overall damage is nerfed but some cool stuff for MoF -
Lower target cap sing + more FI damage = FI effectively replaces singularity for MoF.
Drifting embers might be better now.
No nightmare wizardry anymore - i replaced with bitter cold (for now).
Despite the drop in damage - Shard is great for control and prone so what I am doing is using shard when we have a control deficit and fanning when we have a control surplus (depending on situation).
Steal time still seems great, chilling cloud is a bit better, icy terrain is better, etc... so we have some things to work out.
Did a test CN, we melted it, but the team was OP.
No thoughts on the new boons yet, haven't gotten them.
Hey everyone, i am back and playing casually - it seems the overall damage is nerfed but some cool stuff for MoF -
Welcome back Chem. I would encourage you to look at the changes to Chill and Freeze as they have basically rendered MoF a complete non-starter in content at this point. There are more changes incoming to possibly revert some of them but at the moment a Spellstorm Thaumaturge does better damage and better control than MoF can hope for. All that is left for MoF is debuff or Oppressive Force spam.
Just thought I would let you know since we both liked MoF a lot but as things currently stand there is very little reason to continue with it until more changes are introduced.
If you're curious what I'm talking about Freeze no longer breaks on damage and Spellstorm Thaumaturge can two-shot freeze add's using Icy Terrain, Chilling Control feat, and Sudden Storm. The damage differential from having a MoF in party is significantly less than simply having two SS/Thaum.
I'd go ahead and hop on Preview to check it out if you haven't already.
(Oh, and Twisting Immolation feat stuns bosses through CC immunity now so there's that too. I'm sure this is unintended and may or may not be fixed although I haven't seen it in any patch notes since Module 4 went live.)
MoF/Thaum CWSS/Thaum CWIV/Protector GFSW/Combat HRSM/Destroyer GWFWK/Executioner TRDO/Faithful DC
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chemboy613Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,521Arc User
edited September 2014
I heard about this, sounds a bit op, I also heard about an incoming nerf to just that.
While I'm not back in practice and some things have changed, I'm not having any trouble with content, but then again I am grotesquely overgeard.
I am easing my way in right now as going too hard lead to burnout and less happiness. Hopefully I will perform a full update on this someday.
The one time I ran cn the party was so good and the mobs died instantly...
I have played all the classes in one form or another....My main Saphira a WELL geared 61K health Guardian Fighter has been on multiple runs with Chem...and I have to say one thing....everyone who thinks that is it SS all the way and to hell with the other ideas has not seen a toon that is as well balanced as Chem is. It is real easy to min max a character but then you pigeonhole yourself for only one kind of situation with one kind of team. The way this game is you may have a different team even if you are in a good guild regardless of the toon you have. I think this build is more suited to the person who can either take out the boss or work on the trash mobs when they are doing dailies. Thanks so much for the build I am loving it on my CW and actually gave me new life and I am playing him more. Great work.
0
chemboy613Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,521Arc User
Comments
From all my test, Fanning the Flame is a very powerfull single target spell, with some good AOE when put on tab. But it do take a few second to dealt full damage.
What does it do ?
1- it put a powerfull dot for 5s on the main target
2- the main target take more damage if mob with smolder on are near (the distance is equivalent of the one between 2 dummy). I haven't tested but I think this is limited to the 5 nearest mobs with smolder.
3- if the mob with smolder on die near the main target, it explode and dealing damage to the main target.
4- on tab, it put Smolder up to 5 targets (main + 4)
5- on tab, it put a DOT on 4 other targets. I don't know if the smolder "siphoning" work on it too put I think that it wasn't the case.
For extra damage, #2 & #3 are equal to 50% of the smolder damage. And for #5, I think it's 50% of the man dot damage.
Use and optimisation :
If used on tab, it will put Smolder so Drifting Ember is redondant.
If used with Icy Terrain, IT will put smolder on more target than Drifting Ember.
It's one of the most powerful DPS spell but it need at least 4 other targets for max effect.
It work wonderfully on applying debuff on multiple target.
Limitation :
It's not an AOE spell, so Wizard Wrath, Focused Wizardry and Evocation don't work.
It have a very limited list of Feat that increase it damage : Learned Spellcaster, Prestidigitation, Bitter Cold, Tempest Magic and Malevolent Surge.
GPF is excellent option as well,
This is an interesting bar as well. Some people don't like the cast time of steal time and are testing bars similar to this. I think it's valid in multiple CW parties, but if i was the only CW i wouldn't give up the control. It really depends on the situation.
Everything you need to know about CW:
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?780981-Chem-s-CW-Compendium-Everything-you-need-to-know
Thanks for the rundown, i don't use FtF much personally as it's not my style, but i still think the damage is very nice.
The people who are testing it remind me it is _very_ important to use it within a sing or a big group. If the mobs are spread out, it's usefulness is mitigated.
Most people who are using it (meaning 2-3 people) are putting conduit on tab still, fanning on an encounter, taking drifting embers and casting it in sing.
The drawbacks are a) lack of control and b) lack of AP gain. However, if you have multiple CWs, then this isn't a problem.
Everything you need to know about CW:
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?780981-Chem-s-CW-Compendium-Everything-you-need-to-know
First of all, the reference. My Tier 3 Magic Missiles deal 621 damage per hit as listed. Chill Strike is 3080 damage. Tier 2 Ice Knife is 8160 dmg. This is listed to give you the basic understanding of my average damage. No procs were caused beforehand, no HV and no crits done.
To the main target, it dealed 6587 dmg in 5 ticks (1st tick deals 2x dmg, then the other ticks). Also, Fanned Flame give 1370 dmg per target affected in 4 ticks. Same dmg is done to the targets, the flame was gathered from. Also, smoulder is activated (when on TAB), 4 ticks doing 2000 DMG.
So, in somewhat perfect conditions with main target and 5 burning targets around it, it will dish out 15447 dmg to main target and 1372 to burning targets. Wel... 15447 dmg in 5 seconds before any modifiers sounds very scary, doesn't it? Also, mind that it benefits from Arcane Mastery stacks.
Everything you need to know about CW:
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?780981-Chem-s-CW-Compendium-Everything-you-need-to-know
So, all in all, Renegade MoF does not look like it has a future.
I think MoF/Opressor might be cool for a pure PvP build, but CW's in PvP?
MoF/Thaum is very effective in PvE if it suits your playstyle. I don't like being force into one tree, but i can't find an argument for any other.
Everything you need to know about CW:
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?780981-Chem-s-CW-Compendium-Everything-you-need-to-know
What did you use for Renegade exactly, and what breakdown? I have a link to what I'm using in my signature, it's a halfling MoF Renegade. Build works tremendously well for not being a thaum, and I regularly give Thaum's a run for their money with an aggressive playstyle...
Not trying to hijack or anything, but flat out saying it doesn't have a future is a bold stance to make IMO.
- JailBreak (in development)
At this point in lvling my MOF CW I haven't assigned any pts on this daily yet. As far as I can tell most people seem to think around the same. No dmg, no crit, no targets. Even with the ability to crit, dropping the dmg on 8 monsters doesn't seem that great.
- JailBreak (in development)
I have a feeling that instead of raising the cap on FI they are going to lower the caps on other abilities. I suppose it is possible that they will "normalize" the caps to a specific number based on the type of power, such as 10 for an AOE daily or 5 for an AOE encounter, but that is pure speculation on my part.
But based on the comments of the devs about "looking into CWS" I suspect a pretty significant change to CWs after mod 3 comes out, luckily that might be a while.
This is probably why they haven't fixed Arp on all our spells as well. Doesn't really matter...we will adapt.
Agreed.
/10char
Ten
Char
Everything you need to know about CW:
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?780981-Chem-s-CW-Compendium-Everything-you-need-to-know
did you even read the guide? lol
BlackberryCheesecake CW
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
CheeseCake House
Lower target cap sing + more FI damage = FI effectively replaces singularity for MoF.
Drifting embers might be better now.
No nightmare wizardry anymore - i replaced with bitter cold (for now).
Despite the drop in damage - Shard is great for control and prone so what I am doing is using shard when we have a control deficit and fanning when we have a control surplus (depending on situation).
Steal time still seems great, chilling cloud is a bit better, icy terrain is better, etc... so we have some things to work out.
Did a test CN, we melted it, but the team was OP.
No thoughts on the new boons yet, haven't gotten them.
Everything you need to know about CW:
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?780981-Chem-s-CW-Compendium-Everything-you-need-to-know
Welcome back Chem. I would encourage you to look at the changes to Chill and Freeze as they have basically rendered MoF a complete non-starter in content at this point. There are more changes incoming to possibly revert some of them but at the moment a Spellstorm Thaumaturge does better damage and better control than MoF can hope for. All that is left for MoF is debuff or Oppressive Force spam.
Just thought I would let you know since we both liked MoF a lot but as things currently stand there is very little reason to continue with it until more changes are introduced.
If you're curious what I'm talking about Freeze no longer breaks on damage and Spellstorm Thaumaturge can two-shot freeze add's using Icy Terrain, Chilling Control feat, and Sudden Storm. The damage differential from having a MoF in party is significantly less than simply having two SS/Thaum.
I'd go ahead and hop on Preview to check it out if you haven't already.
(Oh, and Twisting Immolation feat stuns bosses through CC immunity now so there's that too. I'm sure this is unintended and may or may not be fixed although I haven't seen it in any patch notes since Module 4 went live.)
While I'm not back in practice and some things have changed, I'm not having any trouble with content, but then again I am grotesquely overgeard.
I am easing my way in right now as going too hard lead to burnout and less happiness. Hopefully I will perform a full update on this someday.
The one time I ran cn the party was so good and the mobs died instantly...
Everything you need to know about CW:
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?780981-Chem-s-CW-Compendium-Everything-you-need-to-know
It depends on the source of damage that procs it.
IKR? I was so close to respec'ing when someone shed some light onto that matter. Sadly I lost the URL to the source.
I have played all the classes in one form or another....My main Saphira a WELL geared 61K health Guardian Fighter has been on multiple runs with Chem...and I have to say one thing....everyone who thinks that is it SS all the way and to hell with the other ideas has not seen a toon that is as well balanced as Chem is. It is real easy to min max a character but then you pigeonhole yourself for only one kind of situation with one kind of team. The way this game is you may have a different team even if you are in a good guild regardless of the toon you have. I think this build is more suited to the person who can either take out the boss or work on the trash mobs when they are doing dailies. Thanks so much for the build I am loving it on my CW and actually gave me new life and I am playing him more. Great work.
Everything you need to know about CW:
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?780981-Chem-s-CW-Compendium-Everything-you-need-to-know