Sorry for the slight OT: Corpse, what's the name of your Rogue?
That aside, I sort of am with Corpse here and appreciate his input on this build. Especially with the regen stat. I have ~31k hp and ~9% regen and well, I'd say that absolutely sufficient, also for high end PVP. But, Hyenas, you seem to be on the "right" track since you plan to stack HP a bit more. Also, there's nothing like taking 2 non-deflected pug LBs at once and waltz around not havin SF proc.
Surviving two shocking executions is even more fun.
HP and regen seem to be a common theme here, so to answer any further comments about those:
No, I won't be diminishing my amount of regen. Maximum regen is essential.
Yes, I'm aware more HP will be helpful and plan to add some.
TR scales well with regen. Most TR run shadow strike build. If you survive one burst and being able to run back into stealth u get free 2 ticks of regen without being hit, and then u can have ITC or use your SS to run back into stealth again for another 2-3 ticks. All the above can be done while stealth, that is why it is worth to stack HP and loads of regen well past 1200 and even 2k+ on a TR.
For instance, if I am a cw that run glass cannon build I would not brother go over 1.1 K regen since it is pointless unless it is just free gain. I would be dead once I get stun lock, If I manage to get up I can just pop 3 teleport but if their whole team just chase you you are still gonna be dead So no need to over stack regen unless you go some kind of 30k HP build.
the problem is your 2 rings and waist item. They should be replaced. since we have similar builds and gear let me share with you my stats
(Some are rough estimates as servers down and cant log in to check)
Deflect: 39.9% (42.4% buffed)
Damage Resistance: 29%-31.4% depending on gear used
Crit: ~48% (I think more)
ArP: almost 25%
HP: ~30k
Regen: 9.4%
LS: 10.3%
My point is I feel you put too much emphasis on Regen and ArP.
With regen, the amount per tick is based on total hp(missing hp but overall increasing hp will increase health regen) anyways. So although you have tons of regen, my regen ticks would be close to yours still thanks to the investment in hit points. I feel you should do the same. There are excellent defensive rings and waist items that have regen but also heavy into deflect, defense, and hp. I feel you would benefit from this
I don't know how your crit is so low. Im guessing you skipped out on the critical teamwork feat? with 24 dex I feel it should be higher. I use a tiefling btw so my DEX is similar to yours
As it comes to ArP, I feel you went overboard.
Those are some high diminishing returns and that extra 2-3% ArP is only so meaningful. most TRs, HRs, and CWs don't even have that much DR. Unless I missed the boat here and that you can actually bring ppl down to negative DR I don't see the point. Yea it will help against tanks but honestly so could increasing your crit by 7-10% more
We have very similar gear. Same gear set, same shirt and pants, and similar weapons ( I use formorian)
Besides the fact that my artifacts are upgraded to legendary, the main difference between our gear is the rings and belt
Ive tried out many different items (pretty much everything worth having lol) until I found the combo that would deliver the best and most balanced results
The fact that you have a perfect vorpal makes me wonder why you don't aim for a higher crit% you could increase your dps (and more importantly burst) significantly
Regen too low, get hit two rotation u are gone If you fail to deflect the actual big hit u are dead. Regen build is much stronger than a deflect build. 9.4% regen and 12.4% makes a huge diffence.
Edited the first post with my new stats.
I switched two defense slots from silvery to radiant and two offense slots from dark to silvery.
Will keep updated on how this works out.
I believe today after the premade that we played, you got the point of my first post on your thread, right?
I got the point of your post when you initially posted it.
I responded to your first post saying that I understand that this build is not going to be as good as a more defensive, stealth-oriented one for premades. I willingly play this different build knowing that.
That being said, my playstyle in premades is a work in progress. That was the 2nd or 3rd premade I've ever done against another guild. I'm still figuring out which rotation works best for me in different situations, but ultimately I know that this build can be successful in premades with the right strategy.
Updated with the new stats of my Bloodcrystal Raven Skull. This is the artifact that I use in PvP- usually as soon as my soulforged procs. I'm in the process of ranking it up to legendary; it's currently at level 76.
Switching out my enchants to slightly drop my armor penetration and deflect in favor of recovery and HP has been working well so far. My overall survivability has increased, and I still keep the massive damage. With this build I've been able to do up to 20k's on even the most geared players in premades (just from stealth, not from lurkers- a common misconception). Having the quick burst damage is very helpful in clearing opponents from points.
I'm only level 41, but this thread has been very helpful. I would like to give my TR more hp's and stealth for pvp by end game, and I don't want to pay real $$$ to respec. I pvp a lot and love my TR. I currently have 22 dex, 17 str , 15 char , 11 in con, int, wis. If I add the rest of my points while leveling into int and use radiant enchants at end game, will I have enough stealth and hp's to play the bile thorn tanky stealth role? How many points do you need in INT and CON to play that role?
Lastly. What are the two other encounters besides ITC the the top tanky Stealthed rogues use in pvp? I won't be able to respec powers so need to get the right ones
I'm only level 41, but this thread has been very helpful. I would like to give my TR more hp's and stealth for pvp by end game, and I don't want to pay real $$$ to respec. I pvp a lot and love my TR. I currently have 22 dex, 17 str , 15 char , 11 in con, int, wis. If I add the rest of my points while leveling into int and use radiant enchants at end game, will I have enough stealth and hp's to play the bile thorn tanky stealth role? How many points do you need in INT and CON to play that role?
Lastly. What are the two other encounters besides ITC the the top tanky Stealthed rogues use in pvp? I won't be able to respec powers so need to get the right ones
If you want to focus HP and stealth, then yes you should focus CON and INT. This build isn't really for a defensive bilethorn route, but you could try it with a few gear changes. Try the Ring of Preservation's with defense slots. A lot of people prefer to use Shadow Strike, Impact Shot, and ITC in PvP.
OK zokir I have things to ask..ok first of all IMA only a lvl 41 tr and was building a 1 shot built..ok currently have a great vorp and 4 r8 dark and 1 r8 radiant in offense slot..currently have 1700 power and 1450 arpen..in 40-49 PvP IMA crittin 15k-18k..ok what should I add more for bigger crit damage..hopefully can get 35k crit in lvl 60 ..ok question is do I need to have more dark or radiant ? Jus so u know I Love 1 shot build and I have no problem 1 v 1 gwp ..I can almost 1 shot them too
What he's trying to communicate: Oneshotting GWFs won't be possible on 60 anymore, unless they are some 20k HP 6.4k GS folks who just set a foot in their first PVP match ever. But if they are at a certain gear level you just won't stand a chance anymore.
With that being said, to maximize your LB damage you will want Armor Penetration to completely eliminate your opponent's Damage resistance (which is nigh impossible vs decent lvl 60s) and then power. Still, I would go for power last as you'll want your crit chance to be pretty high when running with a Vorpal. Depending on your Dex, I'd go for a solid 48-50%.
tl;dr: For your build: Arp to 25-27% or even more, if you're nuts > Crit to 48-50% > Power.
LB grants enhanced Per-Hit-Damage from: Weapon damage, Arp, Power, Combat Advantage Stat. No other stats.
wont be possible on 60 ??? i know high end gear gwp will have 38k hp but with my single hit he is almost dead probable left 5k hp for him...and you mean i need ALOT armor pen first than only power ?? is that what you mean ?? heard someone said if i want big crit than aim for power lolx ??? so how ?
Typical GF,GWF,DC that are built in a tanky way (even Combat HRs in 1v1) have 44-50% Damage Reduction. They also have 20-25% Deflect chance but let's say that it won't matter. Also the HP of those classes are between 31-35 k (average) so...I will assume an LB, coming from a full-ArmPen Rogue (let's say 27% armPen, if you stack it a lot) and with P.Vorpal. Typical Power of rogues in PvP isn't more than 2,5k so let's say an LB from a
2500 Power, 27% ArmPen, with Perfect Vorpal. If you go through Deflect, we are talking about 25k tops**, and then you are off-stealth. So the targets that matter definetely don't get one shotted, and you'll see that LB is not THAT reliable right now, since it gets you out of stealth, and if something goes wrong (i.e. deflect/dodge) then you also need ItC to survive.
**At least those are the numbers I see against me when fighting such rogues.
LB..going to stack more than 4000 power and i dont really care bout crit % much because right now im lvl 41 already got 40% crit rate so i need more power and arpen..yes with p.vorp..and t2 skulker set give 5% damage as well.. and proc critical overrun..than go on stealth + first strike + LB = more than 30k damage
LB..going to stack more than 4000 power and i dont really care bout crit % much because right now im lvl 41 already got 40% crit rate so i need more power and arpen..yes with p.vorp..and t2 skulker set give 5% damage as well.. and proc critical overrun..than go on stealth + first strike + LB = more than 30k damage
A senti GWF at 60 will have more than 40k life and ~60% damage resistance. Let's say your TR has 30% resistance ignored, which is very high and not likely for a TR due to the diminishing returns of the stat. First off you will not hit for 30k lashing blades, I think the biggest I've done is maybe 25k with a full damage TR without debuffs/buffs. So at best you're looking at the GWF ignoring 30% of your 25k hit, or you doing 17.5k to that GWF with over 40k life. The GWF will be able to kill you easily, but you will not kill him. I ignored the fact that the GWF could be in unstoppable or could deflect (the numbers are higher for deflect than previously mentioned usually) which would reduce the damage a lot further.
LB..going to stack more than 4000 power and i dont really care bout crit % much because right now im lvl 41 already got 40% crit rate so i need more power and arpen..yes with p.vorp..and t2 skulker set give 5% damage as well.. and proc critical overrun..than go on stealth + first strike + LB = more than 30k damage
If you start CoSing, then you lose LB's first strike. Also, if you start CoSing and expect to land an easy LB, then you are not facing one of the players that will give you problems.
lol ?? guys pls dont dissapoint me i have spent like already 7m ads on my TR..dont tell me i cant 1 shot someone pls...as i said ima using greater vorp only ...if i buy p vorp ima crit even more..now level 45 and critting a gwp for 12k and that is instant dead to him and his hp is not even below half..DOES THIS ONE SHOT BUILD REALLY NO MORE IN 60 PVP ????
My HR doesn't even get oneshotted by TRs and I don't even have good gear on her so there's no way you'll be oneshotting a GWF unless it's in lvl 20 greens and has like 12 con.
lol ?? guys pls dont dissapoint me i have spent like already 7m ads on my TR..dont tell me i cant 1 shot someone pls...as i said ima using greater vorp only ...if i buy p vorp ima crit even more..now level 45 and critting a gwp for 12k and that is instant dead to him and his hp is not even below half..DOES THIS ONE SHOT BUILD REALLY NO MORE IN 60 PVP ????
If you follow along the lines of the build that I have here, or a bit more offensively even since you simply want to one-shot people, then you will be able to deal out some huge crits. Two shots are most common, a good LB from stealth followed by an Impact Shot- I do this nearly every match. One-shots do happen a lot also if you keep doing lashing from stealth. You can use lurkers to increase your chance also.
I used to be able to one-shot GWFs, but that was a long long time ago before mod 1. It is, I want to say impossible, to one-shot a GWF in the current state of the game. Yesterday I hit a 23k lashing blade without lurkers on a fairly geared one, but that's almost as good as it's going to get. If you're fighting a squishy GWF then you can probably two or three-shot them if they don't pop unstoppable, but if you're fighting a geared sentinel then there's just no way.
lol ?? guys pls dont dissapoint me i have spent like already 7m ads on my TR..dont tell me i cant 1 shot someone pls...as i said ima using greater vorp only ...if i buy p vorp ima crit even more..now level 45 and critting a gwp for 12k and that is instant dead to him and his hp is not even below half..DOES THIS ONE SHOT BUILD REALLY NO MORE IN 60 PVP ????
If u do land a LB on a gwf u will fill his unstoppable bar. so he can heal and be close to immune to your attacks for the next few seconds. You can't whittle them down because they will have about 10% regeneration. Deulist Flurry hurts them the most but it is hard to land on anyone not asleep. GWFs are super strong at level cap right now. Good rogues can be a formidable opponent, but not 1v1.
Rogues are good in pvp at level cap. The one-shot build is fun in pvp, though you are better in team play where your team can control them and u can finish them off.
Also Vorpal and rank 8s aren't wasted purchases. they are great enchants for most classes
If you follow along the lines of the build that I have here, or a bit more offensively even since you simply want to one-shot people, then you will be able to deal out some huge crits. Two shots are most common, a good LB from stealth followed by an Impact Shot- I do this nearly every match. One-shots do happen a lot also if you keep doing lashing from stealth. You can use lurkers to increase your chance also.
I used to be able to one-shot GWFs, but that was a long long time ago before mod 1. It is, I want to say impossible, to one-shot a GWF in the current state of the game. Yesterday I hit a 23k lashing blade without lurkers on a fairly geared one, but that's almost as good as it's going to get. If you're fighting a squishy GWF then you can probably two or three-shot them if they don't pop unstoppable, but if you're fighting a geared sentinel then there's just no way.
what ?? even with p vorp is only 23k ?? wow assume that he has 38k hp ...that only take half of his hp and he will just pop unstoppable to refill his hp..hrm..mayb with 30% resistence igonored that will be different story i think..
what ?? even with p vorp is only 23k ?? wow assume that he has 38k hp ...that only take half of his hp and he will just pop unstoppable to refill his hp..hrm..mayb with 30% resistence igonored that will be different story i think..
That is what level 60 PvP is. That 23k was during a premade also. You might get a couple thousand more against a super squishy pug, but there is no way you will be able to hit over 40k on geared GWFs.
If u say it like that than it seem to be impossible to one shot gwp unless he is less than half HP..and why do I saw a lot gap slot vorpal because it seem that gap crit is not actually very high..if slot life drinker is much more better
Comments
Surviving two shocking executions is even more fun.
HP and regen seem to be a common theme here, so to answer any further comments about those:
No, I won't be diminishing my amount of regen. Maximum regen is essential.
Yes, I'm aware more HP will be helpful and plan to add some.
Hyenas@zokir - Essence of Aggression
For instance, if I am a cw that run glass cannon build I would not brother go over 1.1 K regen since it is pointless unless it is just free gain. I would be dead once I get stun lock, If I manage to get up I can just pop 3 teleport but if their whole team just chase you you are still gonna be dead
Regen too low, get hit two rotation u are gone
I switched two defense slots from silvery to radiant and two offense slots from dark to silvery.
Will keep updated on how this works out.
Hyenas@zokir - Essence of Aggression
Meatball - Control Wizard
Criminal Cheater - Hunter Ranger
<Enemy Team> Guild Leader.
I got the point of your post when you initially posted it.
I responded to your first post saying that I understand that this build is not going to be as good as a more defensive, stealth-oriented one for premades. I willingly play this different build knowing that.
That being said, my playstyle in premades is a work in progress. That was the 2nd or 3rd premade I've ever done against another guild. I'm still figuring out which rotation works best for me in different situations, but ultimately I know that this build can be successful in premades with the right strategy.
Hyenas@zokir - Essence of Aggression
Switching out my enchants to slightly drop my armor penetration and deflect in favor of recovery and HP has been working well so far. My overall survivability has increased, and I still keep the massive damage. With this build I've been able to do up to 20k's on even the most geared players in premades (just from stealth, not from lurkers- a common misconception). Having the quick burst damage is very helpful in clearing opponents from points.
Will keep updated on any more changes.
Hyenas@zokir - Essence of Aggression
Lastly. What are the two other encounters besides ITC the the top tanky Stealthed rogues use in pvp? I won't be able to respec powers so need to get the right ones
If you want to focus HP and stealth, then yes you should focus CON and INT. This build isn't really for a defensive bilethorn route, but you could try it with a few gear changes. Try the Ring of Preservation's with defense slots. A lot of people prefer to use Shadow Strike, Impact Shot, and ITC in PvP.
Hyenas@zokir - Essence of Aggression
Once again I realy liked your guide so can I add this guide too to mmominds.com??
Sure thing- go ahead.
Hyenas@zokir - Essence of Aggression
You mean lvl40 GWFs.
With that being said, to maximize your LB damage you will want Armor Penetration to completely eliminate your opponent's Damage resistance (which is nigh impossible vs decent lvl 60s) and then power. Still, I would go for power last as you'll want your crit chance to be pretty high when running with a Vorpal. Depending on your Dex, I'd go for a solid 48-50%.
tl;dr: For your build: Arp to 25-27% or even more, if you're nuts > Crit to 48-50% > Power.
LB grants enhanced Per-Hit-Damage from: Weapon damage, Arp, Power, Combat Advantage Stat. No other stats.
2500 Power, 27% ArmPen, with Perfect Vorpal. If you go through Deflect, we are talking about 25k tops**, and then you are off-stealth. So the targets that matter definetely don't get one shotted, and you'll see that LB is not THAT reliable right now, since it gets you out of stealth, and if something goes wrong (i.e. deflect/dodge) then you also need ItC to survive.
**At least those are the numbers I see against me when fighting such rogues.
A senti GWF at 60 will have more than 40k life and ~60% damage resistance. Let's say your TR has 30% resistance ignored, which is very high and not likely for a TR due to the diminishing returns of the stat. First off you will not hit for 30k lashing blades, I think the biggest I've done is maybe 25k with a full damage TR without debuffs/buffs. So at best you're looking at the GWF ignoring 30% of your 25k hit, or you doing 17.5k to that GWF with over 40k life. The GWF will be able to kill you easily, but you will not kill him. I ignored the fact that the GWF could be in unstoppable or could deflect (the numbers are higher for deflect than previously mentioned usually) which would reduce the damage a lot further.
If you start CoSing, then you lose LB's first strike. Also, if you start CoSing and expect to land an easy LB, then you are not facing one of the players that will give you problems.
You'll be dead already lol
If you follow along the lines of the build that I have here, or a bit more offensively even since you simply want to one-shot people, then you will be able to deal out some huge crits. Two shots are most common, a good LB from stealth followed by an Impact Shot- I do this nearly every match. One-shots do happen a lot also if you keep doing lashing from stealth. You can use lurkers to increase your chance also.
I used to be able to one-shot GWFs, but that was a long long time ago before mod 1. It is, I want to say impossible, to one-shot a GWF in the current state of the game. Yesterday I hit a 23k lashing blade without lurkers on a fairly geared one, but that's almost as good as it's going to get. If you're fighting a squishy GWF then you can probably two or three-shot them if they don't pop unstoppable, but if you're fighting a geared sentinel then there's just no way.
Hyenas@zokir - Essence of Aggression
If u do land a LB on a gwf u will fill his unstoppable bar. so he can heal and be close to immune to your attacks for the next few seconds. You can't whittle them down because they will have about 10% regeneration. Deulist Flurry hurts them the most but it is hard to land on anyone not asleep. GWFs are super strong at level cap right now. Good rogues can be a formidable opponent, but not 1v1.
Rogues are good in pvp at level cap. The one-shot build is fun in pvp, though you are better in team play where your team can control them and u can finish them off.
Also Vorpal and rank 8s aren't wasted purchases. they are great enchants for most classes
what ?? even with p vorp is only 23k ?? wow assume that he has 38k hp ...that only take half of his hp and he will just pop unstoppable to refill his hp..hrm..mayb with 30% resistence igonored that will be different story i think..
That is what level 60 PvP is. That 23k was during a premade also. You might get a couple thousand more against a super squishy pug, but there is no way you will be able to hit over 40k on geared GWFs.
Hyenas@zokir - Essence of Aggression