If you are not 'paying' for the Regeneration you are getting, then certainly you shouldn't cut it out. But if, for instance, you get up there by having a Seal of the Executioner on, you can easily swap it for another ring and boost other stats.
My point is that higher HP+mid Regen=lower HP+High Regen. The rest are quite obvious.
If you are not 'paying' for the Regeneration you are getting, then certainly you shouldn't cut it out. But if, for instance, you get up there by having a Seal of the Executioner on, you can easily swap it for another ring and boost other stats.
My point is that higher HP+mid Regen=lower HP+High Regen. The rest are quite obvious.
I'm using 2 preservation rings atm, and there really are no other rings apart from those and the seals that are worth it for any viable tr pvp build, just maybe a greater ring of health for the extra hp but it's pretty irrelevant imo. More regen=bigger ticks=more survivability=more fun, that's how I see it
More regen=bigger ticks=more survivability=more fun, that's how I see it
Yep, it's exactly like that. I should've been able to record my matches on gearing the GF...while farming 24k glory for the Bloodraven, having 0 regen. SCARY!
My point is that higher HP+mid Regen=lower HP+High Regen. The rest are quite obvious.
Not true at all. High hp gives you a buffer against burst damage, it doesn't matter if you have twice the regen I have if you die before it even has a chance to tick.
It does matter when you replenish much too slowly to prepare for the next fight -- in which case having a huge HP would mean it would take even more time to repelnish back to suitable levels. In these cases, despite a smaller overall pool, one that might fill up quicker could be preferable. Whether one views these "situational factors" are important or not, would rely mostly on personal preference.
...
I do not dispute the fact that HP is indeed the most useful stat in PvP - that tone rings true for basically every game that features PvP regardless of genre. It is true that in most cases HP is like an unchanging, set-piece mode of defense regardless of skill and unreliant to chance -- and therefore the most efficient.
However, there could be other preferences plenty justified as well -- as long as the person with the different preference has something -- enough skill, experience, or whatever his ace-up-the-sleeve -- that can offset the disadvantages. As long as it works for him, then that's as viable a choice as any other. In the end, that's probably why PvP and PvP building is fun -- to a question, there are always "standard choices"... and then there are your own.
Personally, I'd rather always support more unique choices, instead of "standard" or "model" choices -- since the standard choices always lead up to hordes of mass-produced FotM copycats. Everyone using exactly same stats, exactly same choice of powers and feats, exacty same choice of gears.. etc etc... **yuuckk** where's the fun in that?
Stop making excuses. Be a man. If you know something to be broken, stop using it. Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
You missed the point of my post, I wasn't insinuating that it's better to have more hp and weak regen but that regen with a small hp pool makes about the same amount of sense since the two go hand in hand. If you can't survive the initial burst then it would not matter if you had a million regen since you'd be on your way back to your campfire before it ticked once.
You missed the point of my post, I wasn't insinuating that it's better to have more hp and weak regen but that regen with a small hp pool makes about the same amount of sense since the two go hand in hand. If you can't survive the initial burst then it would not matter if you had a million regen since you'd be on your way back to your campfire before it ticked once.
Actually, that was the point. "Not being able to survive the initial alpha", is basically a probability. It is a risk -- whether one can handle that risk or not, is entirely upto the player in control.
There are methods to avoid or counter enemy attempts, as well as keen situational awareness and combat selection can go a long way to survival. It basically boils down to the player's judgement -- if you are confident that you have enough chance of success in avoiding enemy attempts to justify lower overall HP, then you go with it. Otherwise, if you will accept the "initial attack" as being absolutely inevitable outcome, then you go with more HP as insurance.
Hence, there are "standard choices", which usually tend to deal with the mechanical view of how PvP works out, but these views do not apply to everyone on the same scale. We all know some players may be more talented than others, or may have his/her own method of dealing with things, and therefore would rather take the "risks" along with his/her own unique solution to the problem, rather than stick to the "standard".
If you can't survive the initial burst then it would not matter if you had a million regen since you'd be on your way back to your campfire before it ticked once. This is true.
But what if you can?
...and I've been living in the world of PvP long enough to realize that there is always, 'someone who can.'
Hence, it comes down to preference. What you feel is best, may actually be best.
Stop making excuses. Be a man. If you know something to be broken, stop using it. Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
We're both saying the same thing really just wording it differently. The reason I advocate a larger hp pool with regen is how things happen in this game that are out of your control, for example just the other day I had ITC refuse to active three times in a row (definitely wasn't on CD since I hadn't had to use it in almost 3 minutes) but thanks to having high hp, regen, defelect and defense I pulled through and put the ranger and TR that were bothering me out of their misery anyway.
It does all come down to preference and playstyle, I focused more on survivability since I'm not the type of rogue who spends their time hiding in the shadows waiting to catch people unawares. I spend over 90% of my time out of stealth and like to push my limits since it's more fun to me so that extra cushion has allowed me to either kill, stall or escape countless times where I would have definitely died without it.
We are all saying the same thing but we are lost in the semantics. For the shake of argument, let's suppose that 2000 Regen is 15% ticks and 1600 Regen is 13% Regen ticks.
With an HP pool of 27,000 at 2000 Regen, your maximum tick is 2025.
With an HP pool of 31,000 at 1500 Regen, your maximum tick is 2015.
That's not only comparable, but it's almost identical. However the second case has more hit points and probably has swapped a Seal of Executioner for...let's say a Berserker's Ring of Youth or a Greater Ring of Repulsion , boosting Crit and ArmPen/or Survivability even more.
Also the argument that with higher HP pools you take more time to regen back to full HP is correct, but it also takes more time to drop to the point that your max regen will tick. So, yes...same difference.
It does matter when you replenish much too slowly to prepare for the next fight -- in which case having a huge HP would mean it would take even more time to repelnish back to suitable levels. In these cases, despite a smaller overall pool, one that might fill up quicker could be preferable. Whether one views these "situational factors" are important or not, would rely mostly on personal preference.
Either I've been sleeping only 3 hours and thus getting your wrong or this really doesn't make sense. Why would you prefer saying 25k hp + 1.4k regen over over 33k + 1.4k regen? Not only wouldn't it take any longer for the latter to fully fill you up again, but you'd be at a higher total (as opposed to percentage of total hp which would be equal in both versions) health level at any given time after the first tick kicks in for you'll have bigger returned hp/3s.
Thus
In these cases, despite a smaller overall pool, one that might fill up quicker
is just wrong, as well as
in which case having a huge HP would mean it would take even more time to repelnish back to suitable levels
.
So yeah, I really can't see any advantage you'd have with a smaller HP pool. At all.
Oooooor are you not assuming equal regen stats, in which case my reply is missing the point
I think everyone's confused now -- I know I certainly am. Is the premise not "[Comparison between larger HP pool/much lower regen rate] vs. [Smaller HP pool/much higher regen rate]"??
Because, if the difference in regen rate is miniscule, of course having a higher HP pool would be much more desired.
I thought we were talking about regen rate difference that would be at least noticeable, as in when someone ticks 80 HP, the higher one would tick at least 150 or so.. or something like that.
Stop making excuses. Be a man. If you know something to be broken, stop using it. Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
a) Regeneration above 1400 is hit with diminishing returns. Meaning that you need much more in order to get a noticeable result. For example, 1400 Regen is 11% lost life back, while 2000 regen is 15% life back. So, for 1400 points you get a huge increase, but for 600 points you get a very little increase.
b) Regeneration ticks formula is: Maximum life - Life lost(maximum 50%)*Regeneration%
So for easy calculation, max ticks are (Maximum life/2)*Regen%
As you see, the result is proportional to both max HP and Regen tick. The idea is getting the most out of the two worlds, which are both amazing stats to get for PvP. Unlike Regen, maximum HP do not suffer diminishing returns on their increase.
The argument is, that you can achieve the same HP tick back with a higher HP pool and a smaller regen, as with a small HP pool and a bigger Regen. The idea is to not waste any stats.
That's why a higher HP pool with less regen is prefered, as HP will not have diminishing returns and you will be able to have better stat values in other areas after reaching 10-11% regen in total.
That's why a higher HP pool with less regen is prefered, as HP will not have diminishing returns and you will be able to have better stat values in other areas after reaching 10-11% regen in total.
Max HP and max regen is ideal for the average PvPer at the moment. It's the simplest way to increase your potential in matches. However, there are a multitude of alternatives depending on playstyle that can be just as effective if done correctly.
Max HP and max regen is ideal for the average PvPer at the moment. It's the simplest way to increase your potential in matches. However, there are a multitude of alternatives depending on playstyle that can be just as effective if done correctly.
Depends on the gear and enchants you have access to. Different playstyles need offensive numbers and defensive stats to be at a good balance. This can be easily done if you have access to r9s and P.Vorpal, but if you don't then it means that you somehow need to balance the damage output with your defensive stats while you are farming for the perfect gear.
Depends on the gear and enchants you have access to. Different playstyles need offensive numbers and defensive stats to be at a good balance. This can be easily done if you have access to r9s and P.Vorpal, but if you don't then it means that you somehow need to balance the damage output with your defensive stats while you are farming for the perfect gear.
Everyone can have access to everything in time, and the time is up to them.
You don't need the best enchants to be a good player, and just having them won't make you one. It goes both ways. Playstyle and an understanding of your class and it's different ways to play is ultimately going to help you out more than the fancy gear.
Everyone can have access to everything in time, and the time is up to them.
You don't need the best enchants to be a good player, and just having them won't make you one. It goes both ways. Playstyle and an understanding of your class and it's different ways to play is ultimately going to help you out more than the fancy gear.
That's entirely true, but it's different from what I am saying. I am implying that until you have access to big rank enchants, you need to play along with what you got. Of course an understanding of the class means a lot, but having a rank 10 Dark, instead of a rank 6 let's say allows you to plan accordingly.
Let me start off with saying: Nice guide and thanks for the thread. I appreciate your contributions to the community and thank you for sharing your keys to success with other
with that said, please take the following as constructive criticism.
Im sorry but I hate your build/stats I think they are terrible and out of wack
For a combat TR your defensive stats are abysmal and I also REALLY strongly suggest to everyone else not to jump on the 1 stat bandwagon like so many seem to do. People become obsessed in one or two stats and stack them to the max, leaving their chars weak. In this case: ArP & Regen
Let me start off with saying: Nice guide and thanks for the thread. I appreciate your contributions to the community and thank you for sharing your keys to success with other
with that said, please take the following as constructive criticism.
Im sorry but I hate your build/stats I think they are terrible and out of wack
For a combat TR your defensive stats are abysmal and I also REALLY strongly suggest to everyone else not to jump on the 1 stat bandwagon like so many seem to do. People become obsessed in one or two stats and stack them to the max, leaving their chars weak. In this case: ArP & Regen
Balance is key
What would you consider to be "abysmal" on this build? It is a balanced build.
It's not a glass cannon damage build, and it's not a completely HP regen defensive build.
I've combined my two favorite stats, circled because they are focuses, but not the sole focus, and surrounded them with a good amount of balanced stats. The build has high amounts of power, crit, armor pen, deflect, regen, and lifesteal. The other stats are not left in the dark either.
What would you consider to be "abysmal" on this build? It is a balanced build.
It's not a glass cannon damage build, and it's not a completely HP regen defensive build.
I've combined my two favorite stats, circled because they are focuses, but not the sole focus, and surrounded them with a good amount of balanced stats. The build has high amounts of power, crit, armor pen, deflect, regen, and lifesteal. The other stats are not left in the dark either.
I fail to see how this isn't a balanced build.
my choice of words were a little extreme on purpose in order to get your attention. I don't think they are abysmal but there are some areas that need some love or adjustments
4 stats in particular jump to mind
Crit, Arp, Deflect, Damage Resistance, and Regen
In a nutshell, I think you should reduce the amount of regen and ArP that you have and increase Deflect, Crit, and DR
Let me start off with saying: Nice guide and thanks for the thread. I appreciate your contributions to the community and thank you for sharing your keys to success with other
with that said, please take the following as constructive criticism.
Im sorry but I hate your build/stats I think they are terrible and out of wack
For a combat TR your defensive stats are abysmal and I also REALLY strongly suggest to everyone else not to jump on the 1 stat bandwagon like so many seem to do. People become obsessed in one or two stats and stack them to the max, leaving their chars weak. In this case: ArP & Regen
Balance is key
The stats looks fine
The only one I could see most people focusing on is the fact their defense could be a bit higher but with people who aren't garbo having at least 24% reduc there really isn't any difference between having 22% mitigation and the 25 that most TRs aim for.
The rest of the stats are personal preference, for example I prefer high recovery (I like my encounters recharging faster and I like to use my dailies more often) but that is due to my very aggressive playstyle. I don't like the ability scores but I can see how they would work well for the build and playstyle just like how my ability scores would look crazy to most but work extremely well for me.
Hyenas has tailored a build to their playstyle and wanted to share it to show people that there's more ways to build a TR than just the few builds the majority have been copying (and that it wouldn't kill them to try to think for themselves for once).
LOL he said reduce the regen, you like singing songs by the campfire huh?
my choice of words were a little extreme on purpose in order to get your attention. I don't think they are abysmal but there are some areas that need some love or adjustments
4 stats in particular jump to mind
Crit, Arp, Deflect, Damage Resistance, and Regen
In a nutshell, I think you should reduce the amount of regen and ArP that you have and increase Deflect, Crit, and DR
2.5k crit and a perfect vorpal are plenty.
I already have investments in deflection.
Defense at just under 1k is not bad at all for a mainly offensive build.
Armor pen gives me extremely high damage which does in fact come in handy.
Maximizing regen is more important for survivability than other skills.
Would you rather be average at everything or exceptional at some?
Hyenas has tailored a build to their playstyle and wanted to share it to show people that there's more ways to build a TR than just the few builds the majority have been copying (and that it wouldn't kill them to try to think for themselves for once).
the problem is your 2 rings and waist item. They should be replaced. since we have similar builds and gear let me share with you my stats
(Some are rough estimates as servers down and cant log in to check)
Deflect: 39.9% (42.4% buffed)
Damage Resistance: 29%-31.4% depending on gear used
Crit: ~48% (I think more)
ArP: almost 25%
HP: ~30k
Regen: 9.4%
LS: 10.3%
My point is I feel you put too much emphasis on Regen and ArP.
With regen, the amount per tick is based on total hp(missing hp but overall increasing hp will increase health regen) anyways. So although you have tons of regen, my regen ticks would be close to yours still thanks to the investment in hit points. I feel you should do the same. There are excellent defensive rings and waist items that have regen but also heavy into deflect, defense, and hp. I feel you would benefit from this
I don't know how your crit is so low. Im guessing you skipped out on the critical teamwork feat? with 24 dex I feel it should be higher. I use a tiefling btw so my DEX is similar to yours
As it comes to ArP, I feel you went overboard.
Those are some high diminishing returns and that extra 2-3% ArP is only so meaningful. most TRs, HRs, and CWs don't even have that much DR. Unless I missed the boat here and that you can actually bring ppl down to negative DR I don't see the point. Yea it will help against tanks but honestly so could increasing your crit by 7-10% more
We have very similar gear. Same gear set, same shirt and pants, and similar weapons ( I use formorian)
Besides the fact that my artifacts are upgraded to legendary, the main difference between our gear is the rings and belt
Ive tried out many different items (pretty much everything worth having lol) until I found the combo that would deliver the best and most balanced results
The fact that you have a perfect vorpal makes me wonder why you don't aim for a higher crit% you could increase your dps (and more importantly burst) significantly
the problem is your 2 rings and waist item. They should be replaced. since we have similar builds and gear let me share with you my stats
(Some are rough estimates as servers down and cant log in to check)
Deflect: 39.9% (42.4% buffed)
Damage Resistance: 29%-31.4% depending on gear used
Crit: ~48% (I think more)
ArP: almost 25%
HP: ~30k
Regen: 9.4%
LS: 10.3%
My point is I feel you put too much emphasis on Regen and ArP.
With regen, the amount per tick is based on total hp(missing hp but overall increasing hp will increase health regen) anyways. So although you have tons of regen, my regen ticks would be close to yours still thanks to the investment in hit points. I feel you should do the same. Their are excellent defensive rings and waist items that have regen but also heavy into deflect, defense, and hp. I feel you would benefit from this
I don't know how your crit is so low. Im guessing you skipped out on the critical teamwork feat? with 24 dex I feel it should be higher. I use a tiefling btw so my DEX is similar to yours
As it comes to ArP, I feel you went overboard.
Those are some high diminishing returns and that extra 2-3% ArP is only so meaningful. most TRs, HRs, and CWs don't even have that much DR. Unless I missed the boat here and that you can actually bring ppl down to negative DR I don't see the point. Yea it will help against tanks but honestly so could increasing your crit by 7-10% more
If you play high-end PvP premade matches, having high regen is absolutely essential. The post, if you read through it, does say that I will be increasing my HP in the future. Why do I not go for rings that have defensive stats instead of regen? Because I'm not a defensive TR.
My crit is high enough for its purpose. I crit high and frequently. I do 15-30k lashing blades depending upon the opponent, and frequent impacts over 10k. You're guessing I skipped out on the critical teamwork feat? Did you even read this thread? I'm pretty sure you only looked at the first picture then decided to go post without knowledge of anything else.
that's great that you crit in that range but the problem is its only 41% of the time. do u have an explanation for this
Your a combat TR and therefore a defensive TR. if not you will hurt the team. With that said, an offensive based TR with an executioner build has no excuse for only 41% crit. TRs can easily get 50-52% in this game. With the in 25% crit severity boost + the perfect vorpal, we are talking DRAMATIC increases in dps
im trying to give you constructive criticism here. Yes my gear is a little better but not that much better. I feel you could improve so much if you re-allocated your stats
that's great that you crit in that range but the problem is its only 41% of the time. do u have an explanation for this
I premade quite frequently. In fact check my recent GvG set premade Victory over enemy team where I go 42 and 16 and constantly defend nodes against 2 and sometimes 3 enemies at once. Feel free to look up the video, jerkface streamed the match im pretty sure
Your a combat TR and therefore a defensive TR. if not you will hurt the team. With that said, an offensive based TR with an executioner build has no excuse for only 41% crit. TRs can easily get 50-52% in this game. With the in 25% crit severity boost + the perfect vorpal, we are talking DRAMATIC increases in dps
im trying to give you constructive criticism here. Yes my gear is a little better but not THAT much better. I feel you could improve so much if you re-allocated your stats
I want to hear an explanation for the ArP thing since half the classes in this game don't even have that much Damage Resistance.
I didn't post in this thread to show you up. You might get a little mad but im sure that I will have you rethinking your gear and in the end improving your character
You might want to work on your constructive criticism. Saying things such as abysmal and not actually looking at the thread for information besides stats doesn't really make someone want to believe that you're trying to help instead of prove wrong. I'm not mad, my tone may seem that way, but simple response to the know-it-all vibe your posts give off.
My playstyle is not the same as yours. Now I don't know your playstyle, but I can say that because everyone's is different.
I do have high survivability in matches.
I'm not about to go add a bunch of crit to my build when I already have a frequent crit rate.
A lot of people have that high DR. The armor pen is quite high, and that is my personal preference. Could I possibly replace some of the dark enchants with something else? Yes, that's something I've considered previously on this thread.
Actually... there is a reason my crit is lower, although still lower than what you're saying. I edited the build to add Critical Teamwork and did not update the first picture to add in the extra 5%. Fixed that now.
Ok great. Yea I figured something was wrong with the original crit % and that's why I made the comment. now your offensive stats are looking much better. defensively, its a specialty to do things like high deflect and its not for everyone but when I saw 41% crit compared to the super high ArP I had to post and say something because right away I was like why not spread the wealth O.o . I was thinking to myself, he had to make up for the deflect with hp or defense. when I didn't find it I figured ok so he must have more offensive slots. So when I saw the crit % I was like wtf
I did feel something was wrong even tho I saw the feats i was under the suspicion that you were 5% lower than what should be and glad you corrected the first page
Ok great. Yea I figured something was wrong with the original crit % and that's why I made the comment. now your offensive stats are looking much better. defensively, its a specialty to do things like high deflect and its not for everyone but when I saw 41% crit compared to the super high ArP I had to post and say something because right away I was like why not spread the wealth O.o
I did feel something was wrong even tho I saw the feats i was under the suspicion that you were 5% lower than what should be and glad you corrected the first page
You can understand my original confusion right?
Yes yes, it's understandable. Glad I figured out that error on the post to avoid further confusions.
As for the defensive slots, they will be going towards HP in the future as suggested by many people. So I will lose a pretty large amount of deflect in favor of HP. Something I've been considering doing is moving those two silvery enchants into offense slots then getting rid of the two darks for two radiants in the then open defense slots. Something that could potentially only cost me a few gold to do.
Sorry for the slight OT: Corpse, what's the name of your Rogue?
That aside, I sort of am with Corpse here and appreciate his input on this build. Especially with the regen stat. I have ~31k hp and ~9% regen and well, I'd say that absolutely sufficient, also for high end PVP. But, Hyenas, you seem to be on the "right" track since you plan to stack HP a bit more. Also, there's nothing like taking 2 non-deflected pug LBs at once and waltz around not havin SF proc.
Comments
My point is that higher HP+mid Regen=lower HP+High Regen. The rest are quite obvious.
I'm using 2 preservation rings atm, and there really are no other rings apart from those and the seals that are worth it for any viable tr pvp build, just maybe a greater ring of health for the extra hp but it's pretty irrelevant imo. More regen=bigger ticks=more survivability=more fun, that's how I see it
Yep, it's exactly like that. I should've been able to record my matches on gearing the GF...while farming 24k glory for the Bloodraven, having 0 regen. SCARY!
Hyenas@zokir - Essence of Aggression
Not true at all. High hp gives you a buffer against burst damage, it doesn't matter if you have twice the regen I have if you die before it even has a chance to tick.
...
I do not dispute the fact that HP is indeed the most useful stat in PvP - that tone rings true for basically every game that features PvP regardless of genre. It is true that in most cases HP is like an unchanging, set-piece mode of defense regardless of skill and unreliant to chance -- and therefore the most efficient.
However, there could be other preferences plenty justified as well -- as long as the person with the different preference has something -- enough skill, experience, or whatever his ace-up-the-sleeve -- that can offset the disadvantages. As long as it works for him, then that's as viable a choice as any other. In the end, that's probably why PvP and PvP building is fun -- to a question, there are always "standard choices"... and then there are your own.
Personally, I'd rather always support more unique choices, instead of "standard" or "model" choices -- since the standard choices always lead up to hordes of mass-produced FotM copycats. Everyone using exactly same stats, exactly same choice of powers and feats, exacty same choice of gears.. etc etc... **yuuckk** where's the fun in that?
If you know something to be broken, stop using it.
Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
Actually, that was the point. "Not being able to survive the initial alpha", is basically a probability. It is a risk -- whether one can handle that risk or not, is entirely upto the player in control.
There are methods to avoid or counter enemy attempts, as well as keen situational awareness and combat selection can go a long way to survival. It basically boils down to the player's judgement -- if you are confident that you have enough chance of success in avoiding enemy attempts to justify lower overall HP, then you go with it. Otherwise, if you will accept the "initial attack" as being absolutely inevitable outcome, then you go with more HP as insurance.
Hence, there are "standard choices", which usually tend to deal with the mechanical view of how PvP works out, but these views do not apply to everyone on the same scale. We all know some players may be more talented than others, or may have his/her own method of dealing with things, and therefore would rather take the "risks" along with his/her own unique solution to the problem, rather than stick to the "standard".
If you can't survive the initial burst then it would not matter if you had a million regen since you'd be on your way back to your campfire before it ticked once. This is true.
But what if you can?
...and I've been living in the world of PvP long enough to realize that there is always, 'someone who can.'
Hence, it comes down to preference. What you feel is best, may actually be best.
If you know something to be broken, stop using it.
Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
It does all come down to preference and playstyle, I focused more on survivability since I'm not the type of rogue who spends their time hiding in the shadows waiting to catch people unawares. I spend over 90% of my time out of stealth and like to push my limits since it's more fun to me so that extra cushion has allowed me to either kill, stall or escape countless times where I would have definitely died without it.
With an HP pool of 27,000 at 2000 Regen, your maximum tick is 2025.
With an HP pool of 31,000 at 1500 Regen, your maximum tick is 2015.
That's not only comparable, but it's almost identical. However the second case has more hit points and probably has swapped a Seal of Executioner for...let's say a Berserker's Ring of Youth or a Greater Ring of Repulsion , boosting Crit and ArmPen/or Survivability even more.
Also the argument that with higher HP pools you take more time to regen back to full HP is correct, but it also takes more time to drop to the point that your max regen will tick. So, yes...same difference.
Either I've been sleeping only 3 hours and thus getting your wrong or this really doesn't make sense. Why would you prefer saying 25k hp + 1.4k regen over over 33k + 1.4k regen? Not only wouldn't it take any longer for the latter to fully fill you up again, but you'd be at a higher total (as opposed to percentage of total hp which would be equal in both versions) health level at any given time after the first tick kicks in for you'll have bigger returned hp/3s.
Thus is just wrong, as well as .
So yeah, I really can't see any advantage you'd have with a smaller HP pool. At all.
Oooooor are you not assuming equal regen stats, in which case my reply is missing the point
Because, if the difference in regen rate is miniscule, of course having a higher HP pool would be much more desired.
I thought we were talking about regen rate difference that would be at least noticeable, as in when someone ticks 80 HP, the higher one would tick at least 150 or so.. or something like that.
If you know something to be broken, stop using it.
Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
a) Regeneration above 1400 is hit with diminishing returns. Meaning that you need much more in order to get a noticeable result. For example, 1400 Regen is 11% lost life back, while 2000 regen is 15% life back. So, for 1400 points you get a huge increase, but for 600 points you get a very little increase.
b) Regeneration ticks formula is: Maximum life - Life lost(maximum 50%)*Regeneration%
So for easy calculation, max ticks are (Maximum life/2)*Regen%
As you see, the result is proportional to both max HP and Regen tick. The idea is getting the most out of the two worlds, which are both amazing stats to get for PvP. Unlike Regen, maximum HP do not suffer diminishing returns on their increase.
The argument is, that you can achieve the same HP tick back with a higher HP pool and a smaller regen, as with a small HP pool and a bigger Regen. The idea is to not waste any stats.
Max HP and max regen is ideal for the average PvPer at the moment. It's the simplest way to increase your potential in matches. However, there are a multitude of alternatives depending on playstyle that can be just as effective if done correctly.
Hyenas@zokir - Essence of Aggression
Depends on the gear and enchants you have access to. Different playstyles need offensive numbers and defensive stats to be at a good balance. This can be easily done if you have access to r9s and P.Vorpal, but if you don't then it means that you somehow need to balance the damage output with your defensive stats while you are farming for the perfect gear.
Everyone can have access to everything in time, and the time is up to them.
You don't need the best enchants to be a good player, and just having them won't make you one. It goes both ways. Playstyle and an understanding of your class and it's different ways to play is ultimately going to help you out more than the fancy gear.
Hyenas@zokir - Essence of Aggression
That's entirely true, but it's different from what I am saying. I am implying that until you have access to big rank enchants, you need to play along with what you got. Of course an understanding of the class means a lot, but having a rank 10 Dark, instead of a rank 6 let's say allows you to plan accordingly.
with that said, please take the following as constructive criticism.
Im sorry but I hate your build/stats I think they are terrible and out of wack
For a combat TR your defensive stats are abysmal and I also REALLY strongly suggest to everyone else not to jump on the 1 stat bandwagon like so many seem to do. People become obsessed in one or two stats and stack them to the max, leaving their chars weak. In this case: ArP & Regen
Balance is key
What would you consider to be "abysmal" on this build? It is a balanced build.
It's not a glass cannon damage build, and it's not a completely HP regen defensive build.
I've combined my two favorite stats, circled because they are focuses, but not the sole focus, and surrounded them with a good amount of balanced stats. The build has high amounts of power, crit, armor pen, deflect, regen, and lifesteal. The other stats are not left in the dark either.
I fail to see how this isn't a balanced build.
Hyenas@zokir - Essence of Aggression
4 stats in particular jump to mind
Crit, Arp, Deflect, Damage Resistance, and Regen
In a nutshell, I think you should reduce the amount of regen and ArP that you have and increase Deflect, Crit, and DR
The stats looks fine
The only one I could see most people focusing on is the fact their defense could be a bit higher but with people who aren't garbo having at least 24% reduc there really isn't any difference between having 22% mitigation and the 25 that most TRs aim for.
The rest of the stats are personal preference, for example I prefer high recovery (I like my encounters recharging faster and I like to use my dailies more often) but that is due to my very aggressive playstyle. I don't like the ability scores but I can see how they would work well for the build and playstyle just like how my ability scores would look crazy to most but work extremely well for me.
Hyenas has tailored a build to their playstyle and wanted to share it to show people that there's more ways to build a TR than just the few builds the majority have been copying (and that it wouldn't kill them to try to think for themselves for once).
LOL he said reduce the regen, you like singing songs by the campfire huh?
2.5k crit and a perfect vorpal are plenty.
I already have investments in deflection.
Defense at just under 1k is not bad at all for a mainly offensive build.
Armor pen gives me extremely high damage which does in fact come in handy.
Maximizing regen is more important for survivability than other skills.
Would you rather be average at everything or exceptional at some?
This.
Hyenas@zokir - Essence of Aggression
(Some are rough estimates as servers down and cant log in to check)
Deflect: 39.9% (42.4% buffed)
Damage Resistance: 29%-31.4% depending on gear used
Crit: ~48% (I think more)
ArP: almost 25%
HP: ~30k
Regen: 9.4%
LS: 10.3%
My point is I feel you put too much emphasis on Regen and ArP.
With regen, the amount per tick is based on total hp(missing hp but overall increasing hp will increase health regen) anyways. So although you have tons of regen, my regen ticks would be close to yours still thanks to the investment in hit points. I feel you should do the same. There are excellent defensive rings and waist items that have regen but also heavy into deflect, defense, and hp. I feel you would benefit from this
I don't know how your crit is so low. Im guessing you skipped out on the critical teamwork feat? with 24 dex I feel it should be higher. I use a tiefling btw so my DEX is similar to yours
As it comes to ArP, I feel you went overboard.
Those are some high diminishing returns and that extra 2-3% ArP is only so meaningful. most TRs, HRs, and CWs don't even have that much DR. Unless I missed the boat here and that you can actually bring ppl down to negative DR I don't see the point. Yea it will help against tanks but honestly so could increasing your crit by 7-10% more
We have very similar gear. Same gear set, same shirt and pants, and similar weapons ( I use formorian)
Besides the fact that my artifacts are upgraded to legendary, the main difference between our gear is the rings and belt
Ive tried out many different items (pretty much everything worth having lol) until I found the combo that would deliver the best and most balanced results
The fact that you have a perfect vorpal makes me wonder why you don't aim for a higher crit% you could increase your dps (and more importantly burst) significantly
If you play high-end PvP premade matches, having high regen is absolutely essential. The post, if you read through it, does say that I will be increasing my HP in the future. Why do I not go for rings that have defensive stats instead of regen? Because I'm not a defensive TR.
My crit is high enough for its purpose. I crit high and frequently. I do 15-30k lashing blades depending upon the opponent, and frequent impacts over 10k. You're guessing I skipped out on the critical teamwork feat? Did you even read this thread? I'm pretty sure you only looked at the first picture then decided to go post without knowledge of anything else.
Hyenas@zokir - Essence of Aggression
Your a combat TR and therefore a defensive TR. if not you will hurt the team. With that said, an offensive based TR with an executioner build has no excuse for only 41% crit. TRs can easily get 50-52% in this game. With the in 25% crit severity boost + the perfect vorpal, we are talking DRAMATIC increases in dps
im trying to give you constructive criticism here. Yes my gear is a little better but not that much better. I feel you could improve so much if you re-allocated your stats
You might want to work on your constructive criticism. Saying things such as abysmal and not actually looking at the thread for information besides stats doesn't really make someone want to believe that you're trying to help instead of prove wrong. I'm not mad, my tone may seem that way, but simple response to the know-it-all vibe your posts give off.
My playstyle is not the same as yours. Now I don't know your playstyle, but I can say that because everyone's is different.
I do have high survivability in matches.
I'm not about to go add a bunch of crit to my build when I already have a frequent crit rate.
A lot of people have that high DR. The armor pen is quite high, and that is my personal preference. Could I possibly replace some of the dark enchants with something else? Yes, that's something I've considered previously on this thread.
Actually... there is a reason my crit is lower, although still lower than what you're saying. I edited the build to add Critical Teamwork and did not update the first picture to add in the extra 5%. Fixed that now.
Hyenas@zokir - Essence of Aggression
I did feel something was wrong even tho I saw the feats i was under the suspicion that you were 5% lower than what should be and glad you corrected the first page
You can understand my original confusion right?
Yes yes, it's understandable. Glad I figured out that error on the post to avoid further confusions.
As for the defensive slots, they will be going towards HP in the future as suggested by many people. So I will lose a pretty large amount of deflect in favor of HP. Something I've been considering doing is moving those two silvery enchants into offense slots then getting rid of the two darks for two radiants in the then open defense slots. Something that could potentially only cost me a few gold to do.
Hyenas@zokir - Essence of Aggression
That aside, I sort of am with Corpse here and appreciate his input on this build. Especially with the regen stat. I have ~31k hp and ~9% regen and well, I'd say that absolutely sufficient, also for high end PVP. But, Hyenas, you seem to be on the "right" track since you plan to stack HP a bit more. Also, there's nothing like taking 2 non-deflected pug LBs at once and waltz around not havin SF proc.