But you don't need same level gems to refine, just sufficient refining points to fill up its refinement pool, which can come from any enchantment, runestone, shard or refining stone. As melodywhir said upthread, using high level gems (which have already been refined, or fused under the old system, as I've never seen anything above a rank 5 gotten awarded without fusing/refining, and then only from some dungeon/skirmish chests.
Lesser gems used? Absolutely yes, just takes bunches, but rank 4s are plentiful as drops in level 60 zones.
Lesser coal wards? What the heck are those? There are coalescent wards, and preservation wards, there are no "lesser coal wards".
He probably meant preservation wards.
Neverwinter players are stubborn things....until you strip them down to bone. (Cursed players, my flowers, MINE!) Oh how I plotted their demise.
0
Options
beckylunaticMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 14,231Arc User
edited December 2013
I think it's a garbled way of saying the system uses fewer coalescent wards (except that you should have never used those on ordinary enchantments under either system).
beckylunaticMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 14,231Arc User
edited December 2013
I provided the same feedback about how the refinement system treats utterly new players while it was under development that I'd provide now.
"Beau", my Mimic ranger, started upgrading enchantments from scratch from rank 1. He never even got to grind any Blacklake skirmishes for starter funds, so he was mostly representative of someone starting with nothing. I did feed him all the skill kits he could burn through, but he was on his own AD-wise. The refining points fill very quickly on a rank 1, and then you must upgrade or start refining another gem of the same kind. There was no quest, so he got I think 5 free marks in his level-up box (if you still get those). Those were used up quickly. I knew to buy more from the Wondrous Bazaar, and at 25AD a pop, I knew that a single Foundry daily for 1000AD would have the expense covered easily. So going up to rank 3s on the gear he was using was really not much trouble. But the refining points on those rank 3s still fill very quickly with the sheer amount of drops, taking as much advantage of match bonuses as possible. And then you're again forced to acquire marks, this time the lesser ones, which I think are priced at 500AD in the WB. Supposedly, you can find these in nodes. Beau managed to loot two, one of which he lost on a failed upgrade. At that time, he was bottlenecked for refining on pretty much everything except the one radiant he'd manged to make into a rank 4, which would then be able to eat radiant drops for quite a while (at least for as long as most drops remained 1s and 2s).
This was all while still in the Blackdagger Ruins, on a character I basically played for part of a weekend. Beau did get an artifact, which I was throwing refining stones and training runes into. It could have operated as a catch-all for other items, but I was prioritizing his slotted stuff, and I definitely hit a wall with those. He didn't have the AD to spend on a whole bunch of green marks, particularly considering that his experience using them had a 50% failure rate. If that involves something you bought rather than found, it feels like throwing away your money... and buying even one would have been in the area of consuming half of his realistic daily income. If you loot a lot of nodes looking for marks, you mostly end up with a ton more enchants, and even if you don't go out of your way, you can blow through so much content that you'll still end up with a ton of stuff and barely any AD because you've only been playing for a day or two. It's a chokepoint, and I really think those drop rates need to be adjusted upwards, unless the intention really has been all along to keep them low so players are driven to buy the reagents from the WB, but just high enough to have the official stance be that you can find them.
For me, an established player with a decent bankroll and a healthy stock of rank 5s and up, the refining system is helping me clear all the junk out of my bags. Rather than trying to upgrade all the things to max level on an single character at once, I'm working on getting a bunch of the rank 5s socketed into the gear currently in-use and then boosted to 6s, dividing among a stable of characters. I've bought blue marks on the AH only when the sellers have them priced at a reasonable discount under the Wondrous Bazaar prices. This may come down further in the future, but I'm willing to fork over to a degree to be able to perform these upgrades sooner. At the moment, I do have enough marks to keep me going for a while, but I might not have enough preservation wards as I'm seeing beastly luck on actually upgrading. Once I get all the rank 6s made, I'll be feeding them with things as I play. It will likely take a good long time for anything to be ready to upgrade to a rank 7, and by then the system will likely be stabilized.
I have a few rank 7s and even 8s already, but I will likely keep these slotted, not feed them, and possibly in the future use them as reagents when the time comes. I like that I don't need to be shy about using my best enchants in not-the-best gear, or restrict myself to using disposable enchantments even in good gear because I'm struggling to make something really worth slotting permanently.
The green marks I got from the level 60 boxes are pretty much useless to me, since they're used for upgrading 3s and 4s, and I'm working with 5s at minimum. I'll be giving mine to a less-established player. They would have been useful for Beau, who was in his mid-20s.
Likewise, Leadership boxes drop minor marks, but can also drop rank 3 and even 4 enchants, which make the minor marks utterly obsolete. The logic of these drops could stand a look, unless these are also just a token and not actually intended to provide any real option other than buying marks that are an appropriate level to upgrade your stuff.
Overall, I agree that this system is beneficial for established players, but prohibitive for new ones. The resources available just aren't in line with the resources needed at the time you need them.
Overall, I agree that this system is beneficial for established players, but prohibitive for new ones. The resources available just aren't in line with the resources needed at the time you need them.
Which is the key point.
I get the feeling that his new system is or will be better for high level (7+ maybe) and standard weapon/armour enchantments, but it is much harder for new players to get to that stage.
I have read this thread and I am now more confused than ever about a strategy to upgrade my enchantments. Is there a guide out there that spells it out for me? I have saved my enchants for the endgame and have slowly been raising my enchant levels, a couple R8's. Now I have a pile of Rank 5/6's and I really do not understand the best way to utilize them to reach R10's.
This has become so confusing to navigate. Someone please point me to strategy guide for enchanting/refining. I just do not have the $$$ to throw at this problem.
I have read this thread and I am now more confused than ever about a strategy to upgrade my enchantments. Is there a guide out there that spells it out for me? I have saved my enchants for the endgame and have slowly been raising my enchant levels, a couple R8's. Now I have a pile of Rank 5/6's and I really do not understand the best way to utilize them to reach R10's.
This has become so confusing to navigate. Someone please point me to strategy guide for enchanting/refining. I just do not have the $$$ to throw at this problem.
There was a guide to Module 2 enchanting but I can't seem to find it now.
I would suggest moving all your stones to one character and then copying that character to the preview server so that you can check up how thing work. Be very sure to check that there aren't any differences in the patch notes though.
Apart from that note that for Rank 7 and up you will need two of each enchant as well as the marks and wards I believe.
Is it no longer possible to refine slotted enchants? Yesterday, it worked fine. Today, I tried it on 2 characters and with one of my companions. When I bring up the refine menu over an slotted item, the slotted enchantment does not come up, and I do not have the option to put the slotted enchant in the refine window.
0
Options
beckylunaticMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 14,231Arc User
Is it no longer possible to refine slotted enchants? Yesterday, it worked fine. Today, I tried it on 2 characters and with one of my companions. When I bring up the refine menu over an slotted item, the slotted enchantment does not come up, and I do not have the option to put the slotted enchant in the refine window.
This new refinement system is the worst thing I have seen on this game yet. I am an EX Runescape player who came to
Neverwinter because the developer of Runescape (Jagex) made the game too unbalanced and unfair to the paying member.
Now, Cryptic and/or Perfect World are following in their footsteps. The only good thing I can say about the Refinement update is that it no longer costs exorbitant sums of Astral Diamonds to remove Runestones and Enchantments from items/companions. Everything else about it sucks hardcore, to the maximum possible. Keep the current aspect of coin to remove enchantments, but return to us the "four-to-one" system of upgrading enchantments and runestones.
I have to say that I have been a Forgotten Realms fan since its inception in 1986 with "Darkwalker on Moonshae" by TroyDenning. Until this most recent update, I have been a HUGE fan of this most excellent game, and the tremendous job that Cryptic and Perfect World have done in bringing The Realms to life on my computer screen. PLEASE don't become a greedy cash-dump game like Runescape! PLEASE listen to the members of the community and PLEASE return this most excellent game to its original enjoyable state. I promise to continue buying ZEN with my hard-earned dollars to get the awesome content offered on the Market, but only if you the Developers, LISTEN!!!!!!!!
. . . . . I've yet to spend any money on my enchantments and artifacts and am able to upgrade and refine them by just playing the game and collecting the marks from drops and getting Coalescent Wards from Coffers of Wondrous Augmentations (7-day prayer reward). The Wondrous Bazaar and Zen Shop is there for convenience.
I have to agree. I prefer the old techniques in refining gems and have no issues with "unslotting" fees.
I only play about 1 day a week maybe 2 so there is no way in hades logging in for 7 days straight is even a possibility.
Yes I will concede that it only requires you to log in and pray but I have more important things to do then log in and pray for a minute....jobs, real life, kids, grandmother...all take precedence and this new refining system really has taken away much of the luster.
I read the blogs on this refining update and it seems the devs were listening, as they claim, to the feedback of the players. REALLY? The player base demanded the current refining set up huh?
Today we fight the GAULS......monstrous and HAIRY beyond reason.
I actually like the new system, once I figured it out. I played for a while last winter, then took a break for several months. (I came back for HR.) When I left, all my toons had their bank slots full of enchantments because I had 3 of this, or 2 of that, etc. With the new system, I can clear out my storage. Is the new system perfect? No. But it's better than using all my storage to keep stacks of everything so I can eventually upgrade.
I actually like the new system, [...]With the new system, I can clear out my storage. Is the new system perfect? No. But it's better than using all my storage to keep stacks of everything so I can eventually upgrade.
Every stupid thing that people say.
If you pass the point of refinement only 1 point in that enchantment can no longer be stacked thus increasing the number of slots used in inventory beyond that now you need more things to increase your enchantment.
Currently only get in the game because of friends if not it does not give me this job.
. . . . . I've yet to spend any money on my enchantments and artifacts and am able to upgrade and refine them by just playing the game and collecting the marks from drops and getting Coalescent Wards from Coffers of Wondrous Augmentations (7-day prayer reward). The Wondrous Bazaar and Zen Shop is there for convenience.
I am far from a casual player, but with this new system I have yet to be able to upgrade a single enchantment. With the old system i was just putting together my first rank 9's. I haven't found any blue marks of potency. I refuse to spend AD on them so I am effectively bottlenecked and shut down. This is game breaking to me. Luckily there are only five months left.
0
Options
baylen76Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
(...) I haven't found any blue marks of potency. I refuse to spend AD on them so I am effectively bottlenecked and shut down.(...)
This.
I wonder how many blue and purple marks of potency people have actually found themselves by adventuring (and not by buying or from packs). Any data points? Myself: 4 chars "working" in Dread ring for several days, about 18 Dread Ring minidungeon runs, got 2 blue marks of x total. Never gotten a purple mark of potency in epic dungeons.
I am not sure what the developers were thinking. I did read the blog about the new refinement system and why it was done and how it was supposed to make things easier and better, and I thought cost less and take up less space. Well so far in my experience, all these goals have failed. It is now more costly (in diamonds) to upgrade to uncommon and rare enchantments and runes. I am so glad our small guild has a stock pile of these (for now) for the new characters. I am very disappointed in this new system. It fails to accomplish what the dev stated in his/ her blog about this system.
the mark of potency and greater mark of potency drop rate is far too low, leaving this system rather annoying and fustrating for players.
I expected prices to be reasonable, I think most can agree that this catalyst system is very undesirable. why didn't you just have 1 type of potency (lesser) and just up the requirement for each rank?
some people i know have quit the game just because this new refining system pushed them away.
so if you put some refinement points into an enchant (i.e. you did not realize the enchant you were choosing due to the bug yesterday was not what you should be upgrading until after you crunched a stack), does that enchant have more rp than say the same level enchant that has not been upgrade at all?
I am at the bottleneck of the 'blues' on several of my toons and i dropped 50 in the game this last week on keys and some ad, but still not enough to really sell me on the new system. I have been telling my guild what a great improvement this should be, mostly from an inventory space standpoint because really, you either leave most loot on the ground or you have not space, however, i am back to 'full' again where every 3 minutes i need to decide what to keep and what to toss... I guess this system would not have been so bad if i spent the zen on bank space for each of my toons rather than keys and ad, i.e. what i can really use in the game...
I hope that after a month or 2 things will pan out, but at this point, i think the devs missed the mark on more aspects than not. the one major win is the ability to unslot, however, this is negligible because i only slot enchants that dropped when leveling so throwing them away was no biggie, and when i get the enchants i have been saving to the appropriate level, i could just put them in over the lvl 5 and 6 i had slotted, at not cost but the enchant... again, the old system was by far the better system imo because of all the reagent bs was so unnecessary.
I am sure the new system was started by someone in marketing saying 'how come we are not hitting the anticipated zen numbers spent on ad for unslotting enchants?' because it now has a forced ad cost, that requires more space to manage...
I'm on the fence, I like being able to refine the useless pet runes into enchant points to get them out of my bad, but dislike having to use bag space on multiple new components to be able to refine, and since I didn't realize I had to have those things until I started adding refinement points to some things now I have extra bag space being taken up by enchants with enough points in them to refine that won't stack with the ones with no points on them, and I don't want to waste the excessive AD cost to buy the new green and blue symbol thingies to be able to refine these, and if I add them to another enchant I lose all the refining points I put on them. I guess once I've played a while longer I will have stacks of these new marks of potency and power and will be able to refine whenever I want, but at this point I think it's just a push on the bag space issue.
the mark of potency and greater mark of potency drop rate is far too low, leaving this system rather annoying and fustrating for players.
I expected prices to be reasonable, I think most can agree that this catalyst system is very undesirable. why didn't you just have 1 type of potency (lesser) and just up the requirement for each rank?
some people i know have quit the game just because this new refining system pushed them away.
Basically, that.
The mechanic is good, but the 'pricing' and availability/cost of MoP's is ridiculous. I haven't quit or anything, yet, because the game costs as little as I want it to. But I used to play 1-4 hours a day, and spend on average a fiver per month because I thought that was the very least it was potentially worth.
But for me the business model is actually getting worse, not better. Timewise I play about half what I did before and no longer spend any real life money at all. The good news is, the money goes into a pot and my next PC upgrade which most things will benefit from, will come that little bit sooner!
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
"Young people....." - Erik Lehnsherr
0
Options
ulkaurMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited December 2013
The new system blows compared to the old. I now have two versions of some items, a regular and a bound version. I now have stacks of marks i cannot use that take up the same inventory spaces my old stones took up. Where's the space-saver benefit they discussed ad nauseum in beta?
Since I have not gotten any blue potency or marks, my rogue is sitting on his thumbs unable to upgrade green to blue unless I spend lots of money. Same goes for ranks 5 and 6 of enchants/runestones. Holy implementation, Batman!
For a system they expected would be used more, they sure didn't give us the ingredients to use it properly.
I've put a moratorium on zen purchases because of this. nothing says you are unhappy like not buying anything.
Easy solution, allows us to combine smaller to larger, and break down larger to smaller.
The mechanic is good, but the 'pricing' and availability/cost of MoP's is ridiculous.
Well the Devs have very kindly put everything you need for this 'improved' system in the Wondrous Bazaar and ZEN market, just in case people have trouble with the in-game drop rates...
Comments
He probably meant preservation wards.
Neverwinter Census 2017
All posts pending disapproval by Cecilia
"Beau", my Mimic ranger, started upgrading enchantments from scratch from rank 1. He never even got to grind any Blacklake skirmishes for starter funds, so he was mostly representative of someone starting with nothing. I did feed him all the skill kits he could burn through, but he was on his own AD-wise. The refining points fill very quickly on a rank 1, and then you must upgrade or start refining another gem of the same kind. There was no quest, so he got I think 5 free marks in his level-up box (if you still get those). Those were used up quickly. I knew to buy more from the Wondrous Bazaar, and at 25AD a pop, I knew that a single Foundry daily for 1000AD would have the expense covered easily. So going up to rank 3s on the gear he was using was really not much trouble. But the refining points on those rank 3s still fill very quickly with the sheer amount of drops, taking as much advantage of match bonuses as possible. And then you're again forced to acquire marks, this time the lesser ones, which I think are priced at 500AD in the WB. Supposedly, you can find these in nodes. Beau managed to loot two, one of which he lost on a failed upgrade. At that time, he was bottlenecked for refining on pretty much everything except the one radiant he'd manged to make into a rank 4, which would then be able to eat radiant drops for quite a while (at least for as long as most drops remained 1s and 2s).
This was all while still in the Blackdagger Ruins, on a character I basically played for part of a weekend. Beau did get an artifact, which I was throwing refining stones and training runes into. It could have operated as a catch-all for other items, but I was prioritizing his slotted stuff, and I definitely hit a wall with those. He didn't have the AD to spend on a whole bunch of green marks, particularly considering that his experience using them had a 50% failure rate. If that involves something you bought rather than found, it feels like throwing away your money... and buying even one would have been in the area of consuming half of his realistic daily income. If you loot a lot of nodes looking for marks, you mostly end up with a ton more enchants, and even if you don't go out of your way, you can blow through so much content that you'll still end up with a ton of stuff and barely any AD because you've only been playing for a day or two. It's a chokepoint, and I really think those drop rates need to be adjusted upwards, unless the intention really has been all along to keep them low so players are driven to buy the reagents from the WB, but just high enough to have the official stance be that you can find them.
For me, an established player with a decent bankroll and a healthy stock of rank 5s and up, the refining system is helping me clear all the junk out of my bags. Rather than trying to upgrade all the things to max level on an single character at once, I'm working on getting a bunch of the rank 5s socketed into the gear currently in-use and then boosted to 6s, dividing among a stable of characters. I've bought blue marks on the AH only when the sellers have them priced at a reasonable discount under the Wondrous Bazaar prices. This may come down further in the future, but I'm willing to fork over to a degree to be able to perform these upgrades sooner. At the moment, I do have enough marks to keep me going for a while, but I might not have enough preservation wards as I'm seeing beastly luck on actually upgrading. Once I get all the rank 6s made, I'll be feeding them with things as I play. It will likely take a good long time for anything to be ready to upgrade to a rank 7, and by then the system will likely be stabilized.
I have a few rank 7s and even 8s already, but I will likely keep these slotted, not feed them, and possibly in the future use them as reagents when the time comes. I like that I don't need to be shy about using my best enchants in not-the-best gear, or restrict myself to using disposable enchantments even in good gear because I'm struggling to make something really worth slotting permanently.
The green marks I got from the level 60 boxes are pretty much useless to me, since they're used for upgrading 3s and 4s, and I'm working with 5s at minimum. I'll be giving mine to a less-established player. They would have been useful for Beau, who was in his mid-20s.
Likewise, Leadership boxes drop minor marks, but can also drop rank 3 and even 4 enchants, which make the minor marks utterly obsolete. The logic of these drops could stand a look, unless these are also just a token and not actually intended to provide any real option other than buying marks that are an appropriate level to upgrade your stuff.
Overall, I agree that this system is beneficial for established players, but prohibitive for new ones. The resources available just aren't in line with the resources needed at the time you need them.
Neverwinter Census 2017
All posts pending disapproval by Cecilia
Which is the key point.
I get the feeling that his new system is or will be better for high level (7+ maybe) and standard weapon/armour enchantments, but it is much harder for new players to get to that stage.
This has become so confusing to navigate. Someone please point me to strategy guide for enchanting/refining. I just do not have the $$$ to throw at this problem.
There was a guide to Module 2 enchanting but I can't seem to find it now.
I would suggest moving all your stones to one character and then copying that character to the preview server so that you can check up how thing work. Be very sure to check that there aren't any differences in the patch notes though.
Apart from that note that for Rank 7 and up you will need two of each enchant as well as the marks and wards I believe.
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?541751-Guide-to-the-New-Refinement-System
It's a bug from today's patch.
Neverwinter Census 2017
All posts pending disapproval by Cecilia
That's a bug.
Neverwinter Census 2017
All posts pending disapproval by Cecilia
Seems the rest of the posters here covered the bases.
[ Support Center • Rules & Policies and Guidelines • ARC ToS • Guild Recruitment Guidelines | FR DM Since 1993 ]
I only play about 1 day a week maybe 2 so there is no way in hades logging in for 7 days straight is even a possibility.
Yes I will concede that it only requires you to log in and pray but I have more important things to do then log in and pray for a minute....jobs, real life, kids, grandmother...all take precedence and this new refining system really has taken away much of the luster.
I read the blogs on this refining update and it seems the devs were listening, as they claim, to the feedback of the players. REALLY? The player base demanded the current refining set up huh?
in case anyone missed it, there is maintenance tonight at 10pm PST to fix this issue.
Every stupid thing that people say.
If you pass the point of refinement only 1 point in that enchantment can no longer be stacked thus increasing the number of slots used in inventory beyond that now you need more things to increase your enchantment.
Currently only get in the game because of friends if not it does not give me this job.
The new system is:
I am far from a casual player, but with this new system I have yet to be able to upgrade a single enchantment. With the old system i was just putting together my first rank 9's. I haven't found any blue marks of potency. I refuse to spend AD on them so I am effectively bottlenecked and shut down. This is game breaking to me. Luckily there are only five months left.
This.
I wonder how many blue and purple marks of potency people have actually found themselves by adventuring (and not by buying or from packs). Any data points? Myself: 4 chars "working" in Dread ring for several days, about 18 Dread Ring minidungeon runs, got 2 blue marks of x total. Never gotten a purple mark of potency in epic dungeons.
I expected prices to be reasonable, I think most can agree that this catalyst system is very undesirable. why didn't you just have 1 type of potency (lesser) and just up the requirement for each rank?
some people i know have quit the game just because this new refining system pushed them away.
and also the featured satirical comedic adventure "A Call for Heroes".
Who needs stacks? You pick the enchantments that you want to upgrade, and use everything else to upgrade those.
I am at the bottleneck of the 'blues' on several of my toons and i dropped 50 in the game this last week on keys and some ad, but still not enough to really sell me on the new system. I have been telling my guild what a great improvement this should be, mostly from an inventory space standpoint because really, you either leave most loot on the ground or you have not space, however, i am back to 'full' again where every 3 minutes i need to decide what to keep and what to toss... I guess this system would not have been so bad if i spent the zen on bank space for each of my toons rather than keys and ad, i.e. what i can really use in the game...
I hope that after a month or 2 things will pan out, but at this point, i think the devs missed the mark on more aspects than not. the one major win is the ability to unslot, however, this is negligible because i only slot enchants that dropped when leveling so throwing them away was no biggie, and when i get the enchants i have been saving to the appropriate level, i could just put them in over the lvl 5 and 6 i had slotted, at not cost but the enchant... again, the old system was by far the better system imo because of all the reagent bs was so unnecessary.
I am sure the new system was started by someone in marketing saying 'how come we are not hitting the anticipated zen numbers spent on ad for unslotting enchants?' because it now has a forced ad cost, that requires more space to manage...
Basically, that.
The mechanic is good, but the 'pricing' and availability/cost of MoP's is ridiculous. I haven't quit or anything, yet, because the game costs as little as I want it to. But I used to play 1-4 hours a day, and spend on average a fiver per month because I thought that was the very least it was potentially worth.
But for me the business model is actually getting worse, not better. Timewise I play about half what I did before and no longer spend any real life money at all. The good news is, the money goes into a pot and my next PC upgrade which most things will benefit from, will come that little bit sooner!
"Young people....." - Erik Lehnsherr
Since I have not gotten any blue potency or marks, my rogue is sitting on his thumbs unable to upgrade green to blue unless I spend lots of money. Same goes for ranks 5 and 6 of enchants/runestones. Holy implementation, Batman!
For a system they expected would be used more, they sure didn't give us the ingredients to use it properly.
I've put a moratorium on zen purchases because of this. nothing says you are unhappy like not buying anything.
Easy solution, allows us to combine smaller to larger, and break down larger to smaller.
Well the Devs have very kindly put everything you need for this 'improved' system in the Wondrous Bazaar and ZEN market, just in case people have trouble with the in-game drop rates...