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The New Refining System Feedback Thread
leeford
Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users Posts: 157 Bounty Hunter
So I really like the mechanics of the new refining system, but I am not sure it works for those of us who solo. Yeah, I know, this is a MMO. But spare me the "if you want to solo go play a solo game" yadda yadda. Between the broken queue system, people who insist on exploiting their way thru a dungeon, dungeons not doable by a averaged geared group without exploiting, and guild groups who kick players for the end loot, I have simply given up on group content in Neverwinter.
Old system, I could farm L4 enchants and level them up clicking the x4 (solo)
New system, purple upgrades require regents that only drop in Epic Dungeons (group content)
Am I missing something? Is there a way to get epic regents from solo gameplay other than buying from AH or Bazaar which doesn't sell all the regents needed?
Old system, I could farm L4 enchants and level them up clicking the x4 (solo)
New system, purple upgrades require regents that only drop in Epic Dungeons (group content)
Am I missing something? Is there a way to get epic regents from solo gameplay other than buying from AH or Bazaar which doesn't sell all the regents needed?
Post edited by leeford on
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You place malice where there is incompetence.
I did manage to get a blue mark of stability from a node in Tower of Celadine. Don't know if it was supposed to be like that, but it happened.
Also for blue marks of potency, they can come out of the arcane coffers. The cask of wonders can also drop blue marks. Don't know if it is limited to potency or the artifact ones as well.
Thank you. I haven't gotten around to the Dread Ring yet, been playing with the Hunter Ranger.
Just for the record this only applies to stability, union and power. AFAIK the epic mark of potency is only from epic bosses, the AD vendor, and the new lockbox.
This is correct. New players and solo players have been boned by this latest update that has turned the system into an end game only system or a costly one.
I agree with what was going on in the thread derailed and then closed by the moderator. The addition of reagents and the binding of Wards was not needed. Remove those two things and this system will once again become for all players. Cryptic did things like this to STO and made the game for the elite and took forever to correct it, long after driving away a lot of players.
It'd be interesting to see dev data several months from now to see if the new system solves the problems they saw in the old one and what problems the new one introduced.
As you said, AD was already a part of the system. The new system places an AD strain on new players before they have the AD to throw away.
Their fix, is only a fix for established players. The cost should be removed from the lowest runestone upgrades. They made changes like this in STO and it hurt the game badly in terms of new players staying and it took them a long time to correct it. We don't need to a repeat in this game. Its doing great, lets keep it that way and not just think of ourselves because we see the benefits already.
why item progression is NOT off the map for beginning players:
i don't understand the difficulty of grasping this other than it's something new and it's change and therefore people are going to naturally buck it. it is more complex than the fusion system but the fusion system was not working.
and the learning curve isn't difficult: you have a container. you fill it up. you have the option to fill this container with many different items. once it is full, you take the container and this token and you trade it for a bigger container. there is a possibility that the transaction will fail, but you have the option of using a ward to prevent the loss of your token(s).
driving fear and doubt into something can do two things. it can make people oppose it without even looking at it first and therefore it can be a great marketing tool. it also can have the opposite effect by bringing an unknown into focus. i'm definitely cheering for the latter.
Or you could actually talk to new players and not just go by numbers on a sheet of paper.
Do you know how long it takes to go from level 11 to level 20 in this game? Most casuals will do it in a couple of days not playing more than 3 hours each day and perhaps they will pray two or three times because they haven't made it a habit yet. Its veteran players that pray continually and do the daily quests because AD is important to them and they know how to max it.
Again, this is STO all over again. Go by what looks good on paper and not what actually works for all players. Its already been SEEN in game.
BTW, dismissing what is said like you are is a prime example of why things like this happen in game. You say its fear and doubt of new things causing problems...dismissing issues on new things because of whats on paper causes more.
You are out of touch with the game man. For a new player at level 10 starting Leadership it will take him weeks to get to the point that leadership is making AD.
invoking at level 11 to earn 2k AD a day? yeah if you are NOT a casual player and also...what new player knows the system enough to do that? that is something learned and becomes a habit over TIME.
10 free marks at level 20. Nice. This means what?
marks for 25 AD and for 500 AD for a new player where before there was NO cost at a time when a person doesn't know how to make much AD and requires it far more than any other player. Clearly you have forgotten what it was like to be new.
Mark drops are insanely low compared to the quantity of runestone drops.
All in all this is telling me that once again Cryptic and those speaking for them have drifted away from their game and how what they do effects new players. Are we once again going to see another Cryptic game make it so its extremely hard on new players until it gets to the point of every other game they have made, a low population? How about we face reality for a change and realize that changes effects different portions of the player population differently. Crazy idea huh?
I have already heard about this from several guildmates that are new players, they were able to raise their low level runestones at NO COST, now that is not the case. They did some and are now out of AD and since they don't have the time to spend hours playing, the system is now useless to them.
Stop looking at your paper, look at reality.
Your list is useless and goes under the impression that a new player knows the game which they do not. Pre patch a new player only needed 4 of the same runestone to upgrade for free and it remains free until you need a ward to protect from failures, which can also be obtained for free via Coffers. While the changes to no longer needing 4 of the same is GREAT and also being able to upgrade already imbued runestones is GREAT and being able to move the with gold is GREAT, the addition of another reagent that costs AD for low level runestones is HORRIBLE for new players that do not make AD at a fast pace while ALSO NEEDING AD FOR EVERYTHING ESTABLISHED PLAYERS HAVE ALREADY GOTTEN.
It places a heavier burden on them and in some cases makes the new system unviable. There was no point to doing this other than perhaps hoping to pressure more people into buy ZEN with money. And if that is the case, it was a <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> poor decision because it could cause more new people to stop playing. The addition of AD costing upgrades should have been reserved for higher level upgrades. Hell, the ONLY people that would take level 1s to make level 2s or 2s to 3s would BE NEW PLAYERS!
It was a stupid move, so do your job and pass this information upwards and stop injecting YOUR paperwork opinion. WE WANT new players to be able to get into this game easily.
Completely agree with this. This change is going to effect new players, they may not know what it was like prior to change because they are new; and PWE/Cryptic are completely banking on that, just like they banked on all the changes they've made. It went from a very reasonable F2P game creeping very heavily to that term that shall not be mentioned.
The only very transparent benefit to be seen is the deslotting cost. That is the only "Pro" I see in this system.
Fox Stevenson - Sandblast
Oh Wonder - Without You
Do not go gentle into that good night.
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
- Dylan Thomas
You really need to speak with new players because it is clear that you have forgotten what it is like to be one and the issues they face. New players have NONE of the things you have already gotten with AD over the course of your playing and they do not know the game. The amount of AD to be had with praying comes from someone that 1. knows about it. 2. has made the habit of doing it continually and 3. does not take into account the fact that some players don't play hours on end.
I agree with the above posters in that low end runestones should not cost a thing to upgrade because the only people that are going to use a low level to increase another low level will be new players that not only cant afford it, they shouldnt have to due to all the other things they need the AD for.
Games are supposed to be new player friendly and not place walls in front of them. The old system was free until you became so impatient that you just had to spend AD to get them faster. While parts of the new system is great for old players, it places an unneeded burden on new players.
We need to remove ourselves from what WE experience and look at how others are being effected and change what is necessary and in this case, it isn't much that needs fixing. Sure could also use a few more community moderators that stop acting like players and start acting like actual community leaders.
really? so earning 100AD or 200AD or 300AD from the first few levels of leadership isn't making AD? especially the kind of AD you might need if you wanted to purchase the lesser marks?
i believe i said "up to 2k" - your first invoke of the day will give you the most rough AD.
this means that a new player can upgrade their first enchantments/runestones without needing to farm or purchase marks.
how is a new player going to know what it was like before when the refinement system is all they have to go by? oh because of complaints in the forums? how much of the player base do you think comes here? it is a small sampling, my friend. 10-15% at best.
all i have to do is start a new character and see the tutorial pop-ups all over again that notify me of when i get my first rough AD and instructs me on how to refine it. or when to begin invocation. or when to start professions. that's not to say that first time players won't make mistakes... i know i did. but there still are enough buffers there to make the new refinement system painless (eg. low costs for minor and lesser marks, drops from skill nodes, free minor marks at the refinement tutorial, etc).
if drops were the only way to acquire marks, this would definitely be an issue. of course, we know this is not the case.
not sure what paper you think i'm looking at. i'm a player, not paid staff. i have access to the same things you do and nothing more. it is my contention based on my experiences and the people around me that this isn't as "game breaking" as some people think it is. people can post their findings and i can refute them with mine. the only people that have the factual data is PWE... and it was this data and feedback from players that spurred the change in the first place. if that's not enough reality, i'm not sure what else to tell you.
The 500AD lesser marks potentially represent a days worth of AD income at the lower levels, in the absence of dailies.
Fox Stevenson - Sandblast
Oh Wonder - Without You
Do not go gentle into that good night.
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
- Dylan Thomas
I disliked the new system at first but now that I have learned it and know how to get marks I am liking it a lot better. Its not as intuitive and it seems a lot of players don't realize you can buy the marks on the wondrous bazaar by clicking the diamond icon at the top of the screen.
Fox Stevenson - Sandblast
Oh Wonder - Without You
Do not go gentle into that good night.
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
- Dylan Thomas
I was definitely in a hurry last night and can't login right now, so I wont contest that. I definitely got two epic marks, one from the introductory dread ring quest and one from the daily that popped right after. If they are the ones that give XP for artifacts and not the refining reagents its a bummer but still a pretty nice boost.
PS those greater marks are not only for refining points but are needed to upgrade an artifact, they act as a regeant sort of like coal/preserve wards did previously, but now you have 2 layers of need/protection to stack; the marks and the preserve/coal.
Fox Stevenson - Sandblast
Oh Wonder - Without You
Do not go gentle into that good night.
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
- Dylan Thomas
Its good to know you love the system so much for yourself that you are now saying that Leadership is mandatory for all players just so you can say it works and doesn't effect anyone anywhere in a bad way.
You need to step back and realize what people are saying and what they are NOT saying.
I don't see the person you are replying to stating that the entire system is bad and needs to be removed. He is pointing out that its creating a wall for new players, one that does not need to be there.
You are dismissing far too much, making excuses, throwing out what is being said and also going by what an experienced player knows. and all for what? to derail any chance that perhaps Cryptic will see how they are/could effect new players. You lose NOTHING by their seeing that they just added a major cost for new people that is causing some to already become disappointed and think that the game is being turned into something for established players only and is punishing them for being new. I have already heard it myself in my guild by our newer members. The cost for levels 1 - 3 need to be removed, the only people that's going to use them are new players anyway and they have little and still need EVERYTHING the established players have gotten over their months of playing. It gives them a cost that NO ONE ELSE HAD while getting ahead. Its a wall that doesn't need to be there and removing it effects you in NO WAY.
Really? so now Leadership is mandatory for all players to make this system work for new players? And here I wasn't even saying the system is THAT bad and only needed a little work. Guess its worse than I thought if all players will be forced to raise leadership when they start playing the game. Is that one of the new quests also?
Hey, you are new to the game, be sure to take Leadership and raise it as fast as you can, and pray until you get max AD, oh and do those dailies otherwise you wont be able to take part in this part of the game. Sounds like a job already...before they even get to end game.
This community needs serious help.
It's also easy to run VT with a fairly good Group till first boss. Which is enough to open the few nodes that are in this dungeon. Beating Val requires a bit more focused Group.
I agree, however, that placing blue marks with low drop rate in skill nodes of epic dungeons is a pretty bad idea. I would give blue and green marks from solo dungeons and normal dungeons, and epic marks as a boss drop in epics.
they made it to reduce AD and enchants ingame
You still need all the enchantments and wards you used to need (I haven't done the math, so I don't know if the amount of enchantments you need to upgrade one level is the same as before), except now you ALSO need reagents. It's just another AD sink when AD is already needed for many things, while gold is almost worthless. Putting more pressure on the AD market isn't going to help the actual game.
Such a simple idea so why on Earth were things not implemented this way.