Have died so many times on my HR from lvl 20-60 that was tempted to delete him... Even at lvl 60 trying to kill bosses solo has proven to be impossible and 500% of time get defeated... Cannot even do dread ring, sharadar at lvl 60 due to getting defeated in less then 10 seconds solo.. HR is not a solo class, HR is a SUPPORT class that works in a group.
Play the class past lvl 30 and try to take on a boss with 1-4 second respawns of guards and see how LONG YOU LAST.
Have died so many times on my HR from lvl 20-60 that was tempted to delete him... Even at lvl 60 trying to kill bosses solo has proven to be impossible and 500% of time get defeated... Cannot even do dread ring, sharadar at lvl 60 due to getting defeated in less then 10 seconds solo.. HR is not a solo class, HR is a SUPPORT class that works in a group.
Play the class past lvl 30 and try to take on a boss with 1-4 second respawns of guards and see how LONG YOU LAST.
Playing one right now at level 60, and have gotten moderately geared up mostly with gg. I have been able to solo sharandar and dread ring solo dungeons with zero problems since I first dinged 60.
Please please please post your build and gear for suggestions before telling everyone that the class is trash. For me to have done the bosses so easily solo on an hr and for you to have problems says that we built drastically different toons and something in yours is very far from optimal.
This is not a player skill issue as I am not some top end twitch gamer, I'm disabled and have issues with coordination and muscle spasms at times, if I can do it so can you.
I have died like twice in pve. Was archery specced then went for nature instead. Soloed most things fine other than a close call with rhimehound. Currently 57
On my half-orc my wis was lower then my dex. made the toon when it first came out and was not aware of the hunter ranger guide until lvl 60. So class is sort of broken, after respecing, managed to get my wis/str to be even numbers buffed but took a hit on the dex. Went with pure archer route and tried to get gear with power+crit+regen+recovery and still get defeated solo against bosses or higher number of mobs.
Playing one right now at level 60, and have gotten moderately geared up mostly with gg. I have been able to solo sharandar and dread ring solo dungeons with zero problems since I first dinged 60.
Please please please post your build and gear for suggestions before telling everyone that the class is trash. For me to have done the bosses so easily solo on an hr and for you to have problems says that we built drastically different toons and something in yours is very far from optimal.
This is not a player skill issue as I am not some top end twitch gamer, I'm disabled and have issues with coordination and muscle spasms at times, if I can do it so can you.
Its not about being able to do stuff. I have done all u said with no problems at all. the class is great at solo. But the class is a piece of garbage, in a party other classes can do a lot more then the ranger, the class has a low dps, the worst CC in the game and a terrible survivability, its an horrible class, its easy to solo because u have tons of AOE and that is all u need to solo trash mobs and trash bosses, in dungeons, other classes will do a lot more then u do, that does not mean u wont be able to survive the dungeon nor that u wont be able to complete it, it does mean that it will be a lot faster with someone else in the place of the ranger. Also in pvp they are horrible. Once I got 60, I'm almost every match on 1 place, not even second, altho I can cleary see how bad the ranger is there, and that it only does something when no one is paying atention on u or is too busy trying to fight others, u cant x1 anyone with the same gear score and win, ofcorse assuming they do everything right and so do u. The class is way behind any other and that is not because of builds either, because even the talents were so badly created that u can be sure tha all ''achers'' u see are using the same talents and all ''melle'' are using the same talents.
I like my ranger, I play with it a lot, but just because I like playing it and just because it can get things done, it does not mean that the class is ok. Maybe if u had a char of every classes like I do, u could see more easly how underpowered they are, maybe not, anyway, lots of people can see it too, also, that is one of the reasons rangers are never being looked to fit in a party.
If u want more precise information about how underpowered rangers are at the moment read my post: ''Rangers and the Baiacu effect''
I haven't done the hardest dungeons in the game, still working my way through T1, but I can already feel my lack of utility during boss fights. Now that control is more important than damage, I bring nothing the minute adds pop up. If I attempt heavy aoe I end up being forced to run which hinders my dps. Then again, I could just be terrible, but usually when I am, I figure it out.
Too bad having the easiest time leveling does nothing to help me in end game dungeons.
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pers3phoneBanned Users, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
the class has a low dps, the worst CC in the game and a terrible survivability, its an horrible class
Met a few HRs in PvP, one of them I think I was not able to hit for more than 3K as a CW with p/vorpal an entire match, including Ice Knife. He also did HUGE damage to me, taking almost all my 27K like in 2 seconds if he ever got close.
Maybe if you want to survive, it's time to build for that? Maybe if you want better DPS, it is time to build for that as well?
Cause for now, HRs strike me as having extremely good (and uniquely useful...) CC, very good DPS and good to extreme survivability.
I have 2 lvl 60 HRs. I can solo dread ring and sharandar with no issues. Both are archery spec using lvl 60 blue items I don't even switch to melee. Post what your build is and people can help you but saying the class is borked cause you die all the time yet other players are not having that issue. Doesn't work in your favour.
I don't think it is fair to judge a class being OP unless its is at level 60. The reason why HR is able to max out so much damage at earlier stage, is because it has an aoe as its first few at-wills. Many classes at earlier stage doesn't have much AOE like HR. Just keep playing till level 40-60 and you will see other classes catching up.
Having played around a lot I've seen HRs that are awesome and HRs that are bad, the same as every class (my TR sucks btw and I finally got my Thaum spec CW right after 4 goes).
If you have balanced Str and Wis at the expence of Dex that would be the first place to look. Str 15 at 60 is fine with most of our armors, Wis 17 is ok as well but 19 or more is better, but Dex should never be below 23; you just loose too much damage.
After that its about feats and power selection to match your playstyle (and HR is very flexible in playstyle support) and the circumstance.
Obsidian Moonlight - Paladin Obsidian Oath - Warlock A whole lot of other Obsidian toons as well.
I haven't done the hardest dungeons in the game, still working my way through T1, but I can already feel my lack of utility during boss fights. Now that control is more important than damage, I bring nothing the minute adds pop up. If I attempt heavy aoe I end up being forced to run which hinders my dps. Then again, I could just be terrible, but usually when I am, I figure it out.
Too bad having the easiest time leveling does nothing to help me in end game dungeons.
I ran into this very same issue. I ran a low gear score dungeon last night with myself (tr), a GF, A DC, and two HR's. (no CW's) and man we got creamed by the boss. Adds just kept piling up.
I'm really wondering...and I'm trying to remain hopeful, but it seems that there is still no need, or even point, to replacing the CW/DC paradigm.
For me, this was the worst in Lair of the Mad Dragon, as I have no answer for the 4 adds that pop up during phase 2, one of those adds is a healer. When I ran this dungeon with a CW, he was terrible and didn't even use his black hole ability but still could control those adds enough that we could burn them down. Then again, I always assume because I am ranged that I should be dealing with adds and not forcing the cleric to kite them all day.
In any fight where CW's typically get through it by pushing enemies off cliffs are fights that don't need HR's, we don't do enough damage, or rather I don't do enough damage. If you are curious I followed Kasenpoint's build except I picked up abilities that made a little more sense to me. I didn't pick up Blade Storm, Electric Shot and Cold Steel Hurricane, but instead picked up Disruptive Shot, Stormstep Action and Fox's Cunning. I'm running a (without buffs) 19str/20dex/21wis dwarf.
I am considering using a respec token to give your nature build a try, and I'm worried since you seem to think having below 23/24 dex while buffed is unacceptable. Also I hate that all 3 of my normal encounters (split the sky, thorn ward, and rain of arrows) no longer take advantage of Master of Archery.
The main thing that is hurting you are your key stats. I learnt this the hard way with my Tiefling. The difference between 22 Dex and 24 Dex (with buffs) is noticeable. In dungeons I went from struggling to keep my DPS up to doing well, and then got better gear and started meeting expectations. Every 1 point of dex you lose is 1% of damage you are dropping, for a DPS focused class loosing that is bad.
Your 19 str is not helping particularly either, your gear will push your ArP over PvE cap with a 15 Str, extra Str is only useful for PvP and even then isn't that important. Even if you go for one of the Crit or Recovery gear sets the 5% bonus from a 15 Str will make it easy to cap ArP.
That leaves you with boosting Dex/Wis with maybe some points in Int/Cha to maximise things. Personally I've moved to Cha > Int for archery, while leveling not so much, but for dungeon running with Aspect of the Pack you get more DPS with some thought in positioning.
I'll probably post my Archery build at some stage soon. Have been trying to finish her t1 set but have horrible luck with it so far and the Epic Idris bug just makes it worse.
As to parties HRs are not a replacement for every CW in a party, but if 2CWs is a standard for the dungeon pre-HRs they do replace the scond CW. But don't expect to be able to just stand back and shoot, especially in t2s with fast moving things.
Obsidian Moonlight - Paladin Obsidian Oath - Warlock A whole lot of other Obsidian toons as well.
ive a gwf, gf and CW which are geared up. and now a ranger. i would say its far from OP. its more balanced. sure split shot is crazy good, but once you get to the end-game, you will find that even though it is good it wont pull its weight, and relies on a GF to maximise dps. Apart from split shot their aoe is not very good at all compared to say GWF and ofcourse the OP wizard.
Just to further add I did FH last night; 2CWs, 1 DC, 1 GF, 1 HR. (Note I'm running a lesser terror enchant atm while testing the debuff.)
As a HR I went with my standard load out for everything but the last boss, for him I switched to entirely single target; Binding Shot (solid encounter dmg), Commanding Shot (for the debuff - with this active I added 10k to my aimed crit peak), Fox's (because a bonus dmg dodge in there is a win especially with aimed slotted, and the attack melts Snipers), Rapid Shot and Aimed Shot with Disruptive as the main daily (for stormstep) and Ghost (to break agro from trolls/rimefires so the GF can pick them up). Stormstep and Pack is features, because if you get close to another party member bonus dmg but you want to bring Commanding and Fox's off cooldown faster.
Now I didn't top the DPS, for many reasons (like a screw up on my behalf resulting in me missing about 5mins of play and having the worst gear of all 5 party members by a long shot), but I did contribute plenty of DPS.
Saw a similar thing in DV as well, same final boss load out except kept Split Shot over Rapid for dealing with adds while the boss is down. Both TRs died leaving the DC, a CW and me to finish the boss from the first "illusion boss", (the second one was the FH boss which made me confident I could handle FH), and I provided plenty of DPS here.
Final note in the push dungeons (ToS, PK, SP, even FH) he who pushes the most off a cliff wins the DPS race. So its impossible to really judge DPS in those dungeons. We provide plenty of dps and with debuffs (Terror/Plague Fire/Commanding) can boost the effectiveness of the party quie nicely as well (especialy when you are applying some of those debuffs at-will across the whole encounter).
Obsidian Moonlight - Paladin Obsidian Oath - Warlock A whole lot of other Obsidian toons as well.
guys, I am new and can't post new threads yet. I have a question. I am a LVL 9 ranger and my tab key is greyed out with a padlock symbol, so I can't do Melee weapons, even though I have them equipped. Any idea? I am Sunite.
I have spoken to many level 60 rangers and discussed about class differences - yes, Rangers are in general agreed to be 'squishier' than even CWs, but the damage is ridiculously high. I am a pure DPS CW and though I am not the best, I have played the game since beta and did in depth studies of few of the classes. I observed that rangers, in a party especially, gets to shoot from a safe distance most of the time, with tanks and others as protection, and they soar through the ranks in damage.
Moreover, on a side note, it gets irritating, when ranger 'ninjas' lurk around while one is doing dailies, zeroing in on the specific kill while the unfortunate other player is swarmed by the mobs guarding the kill.
As a GWF (@lvl 60), I consistently smash rangers to a pulp. They think they're wittle bows can parry my 100 lb vorpal blade. With the 'threatening rush' At-will - to close the gap - it's like all they are doing is attempting to run away.... lolz ;P
As a GWF (@lvl 60), I consistently smash rangers to a pulp. They think they're wittle bows can parry my 100 lb vorpal blade. With the 'threatening rush' At-will - to close the gap - it's like all they are doing is attempting to run away.... lolz ;P
sorry, I hope u won't be offended by these words I m gonna say. Hybrid HR and Combat HR can kick GF/GWF as in a second with proper skill combo rotation. except one thing, we can't kill Sen GWF easily.
As a GWF (@lvl 60), I consistently smash rangers to a pulp. They think they're wittle bows can parry my 100 lb vorpal blade. With the 'threatening rush' At-will - to close the gap - it's like all they are doing is attempting to run away.... lolz ;P
GWFreaks don't really have a say in anything, I'm afraid.
Stop making excuses. Be a man. If you know something to be broken, stop using it. Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
As a GWF (@lvl 60), I consistently smash rangers to a pulp. They think they're wittle bows can parry my 100 lb vorpal blade. With the 'threatening rush' At-will - to close the gap - it's like all they are doing is attempting to run away.... lolz ;P
Play a class that actually takes some skill to use then get back to us.
He still brings up a valid point, without rooting the Ranger is no longer a valid counter to the GWF and in PvP that's pretty much all it's good for. Especially if they change Fox Shift to actually fit the description instead of being a miniature bloodbath like it is now.
Even if they reduce Fox Shift down to 1 hit (which would be a sad loss imho) a combat HR at the very least, can still severely hamper a GWF. Combat Mastery ignores any sort of defenses and we have fast melee moves that can have it proc often. Bladestorm does the same thing and having those 2 together means a lot of unmitigated damage going through.
The other thing for GWF is that we have short dodges to make it easy to avoid their prones. When you have the timing of a GWF down, you can keep in their face, beating on them and they can't get anything off on you but swinging. When they go unstoppable, you ME away, and you suddenly have distance. Even if they have rush, they are constantly having to try and keep up. Also depending on what skills you have, you can counter prone them. I know I've torn through plenty of GWFs because of boar's rush > fox shift > disrupting shot > clear the ground until dead.
I don't use roots, I don't use the now gone exploit, I still kill gwfs.
Even if they reduce Fox Shift down to 1 hit (which would be a sad loss imho) a combat HR at the very least, can still severely hamper a GWF. Combat Mastery ignores any sort of defenses and we have fast melee moves that can have it proc often. Bladestorm does the same thing and having those 2 together means a lot of unmitigated damage going through.
The other thing for GWF is that we have short dodges to make it easy to avoid their prones. When you have the timing of a GWF down, you can keep in their face, beating on them and they can't get anything off on you but swinging. When they go unstoppable, you ME away, and you suddenly have distance. Even if they have rush, they are constantly having to try and keep up. Also depending on what skills you have, you can counter prone them. I know I've torn through plenty of GWFs because of boar's rush > fox shift > disrupting shot > clear the ground until dead.
I don't use roots, I don't use the now gone exploit, I still kill gwfs.
not to mention, we got high ArP. .. GWF/GF sure can cry.
Meh, occasionally I run into problems with Rangers who have +HP and who know their contingency rotations, but then they struggle when I spam punishing charge + Threatening rush to get back to them (and sprint here and there). If I land my CC its usually a guaranteed win from there. Also, I'm more of a destroyer build, but with Vanguard path and some defense focus.
I love it when you rangers want to play in melee, to try and finish me off or something.... its like you care about me :P
He still brings up a valid point, without rooting the Ranger is no longer a valid counter to the GWF and in PvP that's pretty much all it's good for. Especially if they change Fox Shift to actually fit the description instead of being a miniature bloodbath like it is now.
Actually they changed fox shift during the HR beta testing, they reduced the dmg by 30% but now it could hit 1 target more than once! The tooltip hasnt changed yet, thats all about it, fox shift works as it should!
He still brings up a valid point, without rooting the Ranger is no longer a valid counter to the GWF and in PvP that's pretty much all it's good for. Especially if they change Fox Shift to actually fit the description instead of being a miniature bloodbath like it is now.
Do you know how many times I kite GWF around in pvp ?? It literally gets to the point where they sprint away from me to get on a horse because they literally just cannot get to me..
Marauders Escape is fantastic.... and as soon as they turn to run. You flip to melee + Marauders dash to them, then melee hindering slash.. to root them. Toss in a melee aimed strike to get them bleeding. Blink back or Marauders escape back if its up.. then continue to Hindering shot / constricting / into an AimShot if your far enough away...
The ONLY class I ever have issues with is CW's and that's ONLY if they can get their control off on me first... ( this is where slotting disrupting shot is your friend )
Dr.Real Good :Sun Elf-Annointed Champion : Trith :Fury Soulbinder :
Comments
Play the class past lvl 30 and try to take on a boss with 1-4 second respawns of guards and see how LONG YOU LAST.
Please please please post your build and gear for suggestions before telling everyone that the class is trash. For me to have done the bosses so easily solo on an hr and for you to have problems says that we built drastically different toons and something in yours is very far from optimal.
This is not a player skill issue as I am not some top end twitch gamer, I'm disabled and have issues with coordination and muscle spasms at times, if I can do it so can you.
Its not about being able to do stuff. I have done all u said with no problems at all. the class is great at solo. But the class is a piece of garbage, in a party other classes can do a lot more then the ranger, the class has a low dps, the worst CC in the game and a terrible survivability, its an horrible class, its easy to solo because u have tons of AOE and that is all u need to solo trash mobs and trash bosses, in dungeons, other classes will do a lot more then u do, that does not mean u wont be able to survive the dungeon nor that u wont be able to complete it, it does mean that it will be a lot faster with someone else in the place of the ranger. Also in pvp they are horrible. Once I got 60, I'm almost every match on 1 place, not even second, altho I can cleary see how bad the ranger is there, and that it only does something when no one is paying atention on u or is too busy trying to fight others, u cant x1 anyone with the same gear score and win, ofcorse assuming they do everything right and so do u. The class is way behind any other and that is not because of builds either, because even the talents were so badly created that u can be sure tha all ''achers'' u see are using the same talents and all ''melle'' are using the same talents.
I like my ranger, I play with it a lot, but just because I like playing it and just because it can get things done, it does not mean that the class is ok. Maybe if u had a char of every classes like I do, u could see more easly how underpowered they are, maybe not, anyway, lots of people can see it too, also, that is one of the reasons rangers are never being looked to fit in a party.
If u want more precise information about how underpowered rangers are at the moment read my post: ''Rangers and the Baiacu effect''
Too bad having the easiest time leveling does nothing to help me in end game dungeons.
Maybe if you want to survive, it's time to build for that? Maybe if you want better DPS, it is time to build for that as well?
Cause for now, HRs strike me as having extremely good (and uniquely useful...) CC, very good DPS and good to extreme survivability.
If you have balanced Str and Wis at the expence of Dex that would be the first place to look. Str 15 at 60 is fine with most of our armors, Wis 17 is ok as well but 19 or more is better, but Dex should never be below 23; you just loose too much damage.
After that its about feats and power selection to match your playstyle (and HR is very flexible in playstyle support) and the circumstance.
Obsidian Oath - Warlock
A whole lot of other Obsidian toons as well.
I ran into this very same issue. I ran a low gear score dungeon last night with myself (tr), a GF, A DC, and two HR's. (no CW's) and man we got creamed by the boss. Adds just kept piling up.
I'm really wondering...and I'm trying to remain hopeful, but it seems that there is still no need, or even point, to replacing the CW/DC paradigm.
I haven't been to Wolf Den, and I wouldn't go to MD without a CW, but every other T1 I've done without a CW or DC and up to 4 HRs without a problem.
Obsidian Oath - Warlock
A whole lot of other Obsidian toons as well.
In any fight where CW's typically get through it by pushing enemies off cliffs are fights that don't need HR's, we don't do enough damage, or rather I don't do enough damage. If you are curious I followed Kasenpoint's build except I picked up abilities that made a little more sense to me. I didn't pick up Blade Storm, Electric Shot and Cold Steel Hurricane, but instead picked up Disruptive Shot, Stormstep Action and Fox's Cunning. I'm running a (without buffs) 19str/20dex/21wis dwarf.
I am considering using a respec token to give your nature build a try, and I'm worried since you seem to think having below 23/24 dex while buffed is unacceptable. Also I hate that all 3 of my normal encounters (split the sky, thorn ward, and rain of arrows) no longer take advantage of Master of Archery.
Your 19 str is not helping particularly either, your gear will push your ArP over PvE cap with a 15 Str, extra Str is only useful for PvP and even then isn't that important. Even if you go for one of the Crit or Recovery gear sets the 5% bonus from a 15 Str will make it easy to cap ArP.
That leaves you with boosting Dex/Wis with maybe some points in Int/Cha to maximise things. Personally I've moved to Cha > Int for archery, while leveling not so much, but for dungeon running with Aspect of the Pack you get more DPS with some thought in positioning.
I'll probably post my Archery build at some stage soon. Have been trying to finish her t1 set but have horrible luck with it so far and the Epic Idris bug just makes it worse.
As to parties HRs are not a replacement for every CW in a party, but if 2CWs is a standard for the dungeon pre-HRs they do replace the scond CW. But don't expect to be able to just stand back and shoot, especially in t2s with fast moving things.
Obsidian Oath - Warlock
A whole lot of other Obsidian toons as well.
great single target though.
and also the featured satirical comedic adventure "A Call for Heroes".
As a HR I went with my standard load out for everything but the last boss, for him I switched to entirely single target; Binding Shot (solid encounter dmg), Commanding Shot (for the debuff - with this active I added 10k to my aimed crit peak), Fox's (because a bonus dmg dodge in there is a win especially with aimed slotted, and the attack melts Snipers), Rapid Shot and Aimed Shot with Disruptive as the main daily (for stormstep) and Ghost (to break agro from trolls/rimefires so the GF can pick them up). Stormstep and Pack is features, because if you get close to another party member bonus dmg but you want to bring Commanding and Fox's off cooldown faster.
Now I didn't top the DPS, for many reasons (like a screw up on my behalf resulting in me missing about 5mins of play and having the worst gear of all 5 party members by a long shot), but I did contribute plenty of DPS.
Saw a similar thing in DV as well, same final boss load out except kept Split Shot over Rapid for dealing with adds while the boss is down. Both TRs died leaving the DC, a CW and me to finish the boss from the first "illusion boss", (the second one was the FH boss which made me confident I could handle FH), and I provided plenty of DPS here.
Final note in the push dungeons (ToS, PK, SP, even FH) he who pushes the most off a cliff wins the DPS race. So its impossible to really judge DPS in those dungeons. We provide plenty of dps and with debuffs (Terror/Plague Fire/Commanding) can boost the effectiveness of the party quie nicely as well (especialy when you are applying some of those debuffs at-will across the whole encounter).
Obsidian Oath - Warlock
A whole lot of other Obsidian toons as well.
Any help appreciated
Moreover, on a side note, it gets irritating, when ranger 'ninjas' lurk around while one is doing dailies, zeroing in on the specific kill while the unfortunate other player is swarmed by the mobs guarding the kill.
sorry, I hope u won't be offended by these words I m gonna say. Hybrid HR and Combat HR can kick GF/GWF as in a second with proper skill combo rotation.
GWFreaks don't really have a say in anything, I'm afraid.
If you know something to be broken, stop using it.
Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
Play a class that actually takes some skill to use then get back to us.
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The other thing for GWF is that we have short dodges to make it easy to avoid their prones. When you have the timing of a GWF down, you can keep in their face, beating on them and they can't get anything off on you but swinging. When they go unstoppable, you ME away, and you suddenly have distance. Even if they have rush, they are constantly having to try and keep up. Also depending on what skills you have, you can counter prone them. I know I've torn through plenty of GWFs because of boar's rush > fox shift > disrupting shot > clear the ground until dead.
I don't use roots, I don't use the now gone exploit, I still kill gwfs.
not to mention, we got high ArP.
I love it when you rangers want to play in melee, to try and finish me off or something.... its like you care about me :P
Actually they changed fox shift during the HR beta testing, they reduced the dmg by 30% but now it could hit 1 target more than once! The tooltip hasnt changed yet, thats all about it, fox shift works as it should!
Do you know how many times I kite GWF around in pvp ?? It literally gets to the point where they sprint away from me to get on a horse because they literally just cannot get to me..
Marauders Escape is fantastic.... and as soon as they turn to run. You flip to melee + Marauders dash to them, then melee hindering slash.. to root them. Toss in a melee aimed strike to get them bleeding. Blink back or Marauders escape back if its up.. then continue to Hindering shot / constricting / into an AimShot if your far enough away...
The ONLY class I ever have issues with is CW's and that's ONLY if they can get their control off on me first... ( this is where slotting disrupting shot is your friend )
Trith : Fury Soulbinder :