To go from shards to a perfect weapon enchant it used to require *85* Coal wards. Now it takes 15! That is a major reduction in cost. The new system takes a while to get used to, no doubt about it. But it is superior.
This is an illusion as you need: 200K AD for each level + Coal Ward (400k) + another duplicate enchant as fodder.
This means you need 16 Shards (Rank 6) to make 8 Lessers (Rank 7), 4 Normals (Rank 8), 2 Greaters (Rank 9) to make 1 Perfect (Rank 10).
So the base price of Lessers willto 600k+ each (Where you used to be able to get for like 100k), Normals - 1.5-2Mil, Greaters 3-5Mil, Perfects 6-10Mil
The issue is the base price for low level enchants goes up massively that it won't even be worth selling Rank 7 or Normal enchants. You'll want to only Sell Greaters & Perfects. With the base price going up to create simple things like Rank 6 & Rank 7's the price for Rank 8 / Normal+ will increase massively.
The enchantment drop rate seems nerfed to me. 2 rank 4's out of 100 lvl 60 elite kills. Can a dev tell me if i am just having bad luck or if there was a stealth nerf to the foundry drop rates. (again..)
new system is a hot mess. who designed this, monkeys? on crack?
I for one haven't been able to collect 7 celestial coins for months, I have a life I can't log in every day to "pray" (most fail mechanic in any MMO ever period) so now must pay the ridiculous new price for coal. wards basically this just killed the game for me I think.
0
obsiddiaMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,025Arc User
edited December 2013
Other than saving coal wards, the only thing I see the new system doing is
pushing people into buying still more bags and bank slots. It is slowwwwwww
and confusing and wasteful enough to have soured the fun I was starting
to have in the expansion. Can't believe it... the previewers MUST have told
you to fix this, right? Why did you blow them off?
Did you really think anyone could steal the power of the god of thieves?
Same. They supposedly changed the enchanting system to cut down on the clutter, but instead we got an extremely counter-intuitive cluster****.
My inv. space is worse now. I'll be playing my new ranger and not bothering with my other characters much til they refine this refinement system. They need to allow us to fuse low level runes the old way at least. The ones that drop 1-4.
to the OP: there is a refinement quest/tutorial in the sage shop that will walk you through the process providing all of the necessary items for the explanation (a green ring with a slotted enchant, two rank 1 enchants of the same type and the necessary marks of potency).
I'm not feeling the pain as others seem to be, I LIKE the new system! As others have said, I just cleared out 3 bags of low rank Runes/Ench to upgrade XP on the ones currently socketed. Took me all of 20mins this morning before work, now when I get home, I can jump back in and start looking for reagents.
One thing I did notice is that it's near impossible to find certain level Runes/Ench on the AH now, but at least finally I can maybe get a decent price for all those Lesser Serenes I've got laying around
I also love the so called "maths" that people do, when talking about upgrading, it's complete cods wallop! I have a lvl 8 Eldritch on one of my pets, and all it cost me was (obviously) a lot of farming, and all up (that is, in complete and total) 17 Preservation Wards. You DO NOT have to buy a Coal. ward for every upgrade, you can (as I did) run the percentage gamble. I would only buy Coal. wards for perhaps 8 ->9 ->10, so claiming it will cost 85 Coal Wards is nothing more than hyperbole! It could cost that many IF you used one for every upgrade, which would be a complete and foolish waste.
One thing I did notice is that it's near impossible to find certain level Runes/Ench on the AH now, but at least finally I can maybe get a decent price for all those Lesser Serenes I've got laying around
You might want to consider using those for refining your own higher level stuff. They are worth a hella lot of points.
This new system is a joke, I've been saying that since I first tested it on the preview server. It is not cheaper by any means. Some people like to point out that it requires less coal wards as a sign that it is cheaper but when you add in the fact that Cryptic has lowered the drop rate of coal wards from 15% to 5% and then made them BoA on top of that, it means that while the new system requires less wards, you're also going to have less wards to use.
Then when you start adding in how many Enchants you waste trying to "rank up" an enchant so that you can refine it. Ultimately the new system is far more expensive. Oh and let us not forget about the need for reagents now too.
The only good things to come out of the new system are being able to refine slotted enchants and removing enchants cost gold. Which of course they simply made those 2 changes alone would have made everyone happy and more likely to use the old system.
I'm not feeling the pain as others seem to be, I LIKE the new system! As others have said, I just cleared out 3 bags of low rank Runes/Ench to upgrade XP on the ones currently socketed. Took me all of 20mins this morning before work, now when I get home, I can jump back in and start looking for reagents.
One thing I did notice is that it's near impossible to find certain level Runes/Ench on the AH now, but at least finally I can maybe get a decent price for all those Lesser Serenes I've got laying around
I also love the so called "maths" that people do, when talking about upgrading, it's complete cods wallop! I have a lvl 8 Eldritch on one of my pets, and all it cost me was (obviously) a lot of farming, and all up (that is, in complete and total) 17 Preservation Wards. You DO NOT have to buy a Coal. ward for every upgrade, you can (as I did) run the percentage gamble. I would only buy Coal. wards for perhaps 8 ->9 ->10, so claiming it will cost 85 Coal Wards is nothing more than hyperbole! It could cost that many IF you used one for every upgrade, which would be a complete and foolish waste.
Weapon / Armor enchants was 85 Coal Wards. That's what players were referring too. The cost for Lesser & Normal has sky rocketed. Math was done on PTR. Anyone can spend years farming coffers for coal wards to make their perfect or they can buy it off the AH.
As others have posted in the PTR feed back forums, the new system creates a massive rift between the Haves and Have Nots.
I personally am profiting from this as I have 28 Radian Rank 8's, many more Rank 8's and Millions of AD, Coal / Pres Wards, Thousands of Shards, 1000's of Blue & 3000+ Green Boxes from leadership. So I'm personally all set to make my Rank 10s & leveling my Artifact.
But the new player just starting will be really frustrated by how expensive enchants will be on the AH and how long it will take them to get enchants or AD to buy enchants.
Everyone not liking the new system needs to write PWE support and complain. I will stop playing my level 60 toons until this is fixed.
0
shunterinoMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited December 2013
Where do blue Marks of Potency drop from?
This whole system is a mess. The reagents are just too hard to get hold of and there seems to be little in the way of help apart from very general stuff.
Everyone not liking the new system needs to write PWE support and complain. I will stop playing my level 60 toons until this is fixed.
You had your chance to add your feedback to towards the new system. It was up on the preview shard for a month for testing. Alot of people gave their feedback. They even removed the cost of AD in regards to being needed for refining your enchants to a higher lvl.
Weapon / Armor enchants was 85 Coal Wards. That's what players were referring too.
That's what I'm referring too = How did you arrive at it costing *85* coal wards? I haven't bothered doing 'the maths' for every enchant, but only IF you use a Coal ward for EVERY upgrade could it possibly cost you that.
I'm a relatively 'new' player to NW, but I haven't spent 1 single $, Z or AD on a Coal. ward yet, and I have many (read:dozens) of 7, 8 and 9 Runes/Ench socketed and bagged on 5 different toons. I've used one and only one, Coal. ward which I got from envoking to make the lvl 8 the rest is probably all up about 500 Z on Pres. wards.
beckylunaticMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 14,231Arc User
edited December 2013
Weapon and armour enchantments come from shards that drop in epic dungeons. They go in the pink slots in high level main hand items and torso armours. At all stages of upgrading, they had a 1% chance of success at fusing, or 100% if you used a coalescent ward, which is basically what they were for. Takes 4 lessers to make normal, 4 normals to make greater and 4 greater to make perfect. And that's why they required so many coal wards.
The new system greatly reduces these requirements.
I also love the so called "maths" that people do, when talking about upgrading, it's complete cods wallop! I have a lvl 8 Eldritch on one of my pets, and all it cost me was (obviously) a lot of farming, and all up (that is, in complete and total) 17 Preservation Wards. You DO NOT have to buy a Coal. ward for every upgrade, you can (as I did) run the percentage gamble. I would only buy Coal. wards for perhaps 8 ->9 ->10, so claiming it will cost 85 Coal Wards is nothing more than hyperbole! It could cost that many IF you used one for every upgrade, which would be a complete and foolish waste.
They're not referring to radiants/darks/etc, they are talking about weapon/armor enchants. You need 4 shards + a coal ward to make a lesser enchant. The % chance to upgrade is 1%. Good luck using preservation wards to upgrade those. So yes, to get from shards to perfect weapon/armor enchants, you needed a farkton of coal wards. Not sure on that 85 number, as I was told there would be no math, so I'm not going to do it.
Ahh ... Sooo ... The light of understanding turns on Now it make sense why you'd use Coal. Wards! A 1% success chance would make it kinda' necessary (/end sarcasm)
Still, I can see Rune/Ench farmers/AH sellers, having room issues with many half upgraded gems, but for those, like me, who really only have the socketed ones, it's a big improvement. Strokes <--> Folkes I guess
You had your chance to add your feedback to towards the new system. It was up on the preview shard for a month for testing. Alot of people gave their feedback. They even removed the cost of AD in regards to being needed for refining your enchants to a higher lvl.
So you feel its Sonwon's responsibility to preview bad updates and correct them for the developers that have proven again they can't make a good crafting system?
What ever happen to the ideal that business owners provide a quality product for their customers as an aspect of the transaction? Why does crafting have to be some convoluted mess? Like rare recipes for instance, in what fantasy setting does the blacksmith forget how to make a piece of equipment he made the day before? But 3 days later he remembers again?
You had your chance to add your feedback to towards the new system. It was up on the preview shard for a month for testing. Alot of people gave their feedback. They even removed the cost of AD in regards to being needed for refining your enchants to a higher lvl.
Many of us did give our feedback about how bad the new system was. Sadly too many short sighted people gave feedback in favor of the new system.
Coal wards are not the be all end all of the refining system which many people sighted as being what made the new system good, oh it uses less wards......great but it also requires far more shards and enchants to rank stuff before you can refine it. Case in point, it used to only require 4 level 4 enchants to make a level 5. Now it requires 9 level 4 enchants to rank up 1 level 4 enchant + 2 reagents to make a level 5.
How the hell is that better?
0
hopehoranMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 8Arc User
edited December 2013
This new system really sucks. SUCKS! Now I have to pay AD (the reagents are not dropping) to go from a rank 5 to a rank 6? I used to do this for free. I was so frustrated with this f***** change I wanted to rage quit. I thought this was to simplify things? On what planet?
The system looks like it might work when the botters drive the prices somewhere rational because the bazaar lady's prices are and always have been completely mad and right now the ah is just for gouging the uninformed who don't know where the reagents are coming from. It probably has gotten more expensive overall though.
Many of us did give our feedback about how bad the new system was. Sadly too many short sighted people gave feedback in favor of the new system.
Coal wards are not the be all end all of the refining system which many people sighted as being what made the new system good, oh it uses less wards......great but it also requires far more shards and enchants to rank stuff before you can refine it. Case in point, it used to only require 4 level 4 enchants to make a level 5. Now it requires 9 level 4 enchants to rank up 1 level 4 enchant + 2 reagents to make a level 5.
How the hell is that better?
Not exactly. It takes 9 different type level 4 enchants to make a level 5. If you use matching types (i.e. darks for a dark), it requires the same amount amount as before. Also, it wastes RP to rank lowers up to level 4 to make a level 5. Just feed enchants to the one you want to upgrade - don't do it in steps.
Not having to unslot to upgrade enchants is where the AD trade-off to buy reagents comes in. Most people did not unslot enchants due to the AD cost, which is why the AD cost seems so high now. I did for my R5 Savages. If I recall correctly, that was around 36k AD, which is more than a 25K Mark of Potency. And I did it a few times as I changed items before I had enough of paying that cost and just banked the items until I felt like it would be worth unslotting them again. So comparing system to system, it is cheaper - it just might not be cheaper than how you used the old system.
As others have posted in the PTR feed back forums, the new system creates a massive rift between the Haves and Have Nots.
This.
Like I said earlier, the giant change is that the illusion of top enchants is now not as far out of reach as it was previously. This tempts more people into spending money to level up, but overall, it's more difficult.
Yes, you need less coal wards, but the lower drop rates and the reagents, will end up putting us in the same position. Needing to spend AD to level up in a reasonable time frame.
The only difference is that now, at first blush, it doesn't FEEL like it's overly challenging/expensive to get to the top, it feels like we are almost there, and who is there to capitalize on that feeling???
I would like Coals to be a little less of an issue to gain (I really don't get the reasoning behind Celestial coins vanishing, its such a "sorry you had important real life stuff get in the way of your fun hobby qctivity, nah not really" thing) & the reagants to drop a little more frequently.
However overall I have found the new system to be much better for gearing up while leveling. With invoking, leadership and daily quests for AD there will be no troubles hitting the requirements for reaching Rank 5. By 60 with salvaging etc I don't expect much trouble with paying the costs; the big thing will be the ease of changing enchants to test different combinations out.
So yes the new system can be better still, but for me it is an improvement on the prior system.
Obsidian Moonlight - Paladin Obsidian Oath - Warlock A whole lot of other Obsidian toons as well.
Comments
Agree. I'm wondering if I should just sell all the runes I have been hoarding and just buy what I want off the AH lol.
This is an illusion as you need: 200K AD for each level + Coal Ward (400k) + another duplicate enchant as fodder.
This means you need 16 Shards (Rank 6) to make 8 Lessers (Rank 7), 4 Normals (Rank 8), 2 Greaters (Rank 9) to make 1 Perfect (Rank 10).
So the base price of Lessers willto 600k+ each (Where you used to be able to get for like 100k), Normals - 1.5-2Mil, Greaters 3-5Mil, Perfects 6-10Mil
The issue is the base price for low level enchants goes up massively that it won't even be worth selling Rank 7 or Normal enchants. You'll want to only Sell Greaters & Perfects. With the base price going up to create simple things like Rank 6 & Rank 7's the price for Rank 8 / Normal+ will increase massively.
Same.
I for one haven't been able to collect 7 celestial coins for months, I have a life I can't log in every day to "pray" (most fail mechanic in any MMO ever period) so now must pay the ridiculous new price for coal. wards basically this just killed the game for me I think.
pushing people into buying still more bags and bank slots. It is slowwwwwww
and confusing and wasteful enough to have soured the fun I was starting
to have in the expansion. Can't believe it... the previewers MUST have told
you to fix this, right? Why did you blow them off?
My inv. space is worse now. I'll be playing my new ranger and not bothering with my other characters much til they refine this refinement system. They need to allow us to fuse low level runes the old way at least. The ones that drop 1-4.
One thing I did notice is that it's near impossible to find certain level Runes/Ench on the AH now, but at least finally I can maybe get a decent price for all those Lesser Serenes I've got laying around
I also love the so called "maths" that people do, when talking about upgrading, it's complete cods wallop! I have a lvl 8 Eldritch on one of my pets, and all it cost me was (obviously) a lot of farming, and all up (that is, in complete and total) 17 Preservation Wards. You DO NOT have to buy a Coal. ward for every upgrade, you can (as I did) run the percentage gamble. I would only buy Coal. wards for perhaps 8 ->9 ->10, so claiming it will cost 85 Coal Wards is nothing more than hyperbole! It could cost that many IF you used one for every upgrade, which would be a complete and foolish waste.
You might want to consider using those for refining your own higher level stuff. They are worth a hella lot of points.
Neverwinter Census 2017
All posts pending disapproval by Cecilia
Then when you start adding in how many Enchants you waste trying to "rank up" an enchant so that you can refine it. Ultimately the new system is far more expensive. Oh and let us not forget about the need for reagents now too.
The only good things to come out of the new system are being able to refine slotted enchants and removing enchants cost gold. Which of course they simply made those 2 changes alone would have made everyone happy and more likely to use the old system.
Weapon / Armor enchants was 85 Coal Wards. That's what players were referring too. The cost for Lesser & Normal has sky rocketed. Math was done on PTR. Anyone can spend years farming coffers for coal wards to make their perfect or they can buy it off the AH.
As others have posted in the PTR feed back forums, the new system creates a massive rift between the Haves and Have Nots.
I personally am profiting from this as I have 28 Radian Rank 8's, many more Rank 8's and Millions of AD, Coal / Pres Wards, Thousands of Shards, 1000's of Blue & 3000+ Green Boxes from leadership. So I'm personally all set to make my Rank 10s & leveling my Artifact.
But the new player just starting will be really frustrated by how expensive enchants will be on the AH and how long it will take them to get enchants or AD to buy enchants.
This whole system is a mess. The reagents are just too hard to get hold of and there seems to be little in the way of help apart from very general stuff.
You had your chance to add your feedback to towards the new system. It was up on the preview shard for a month for testing. Alot of people gave their feedback. They even removed the cost of AD in regards to being needed for refining your enchants to a higher lvl.
This is my very question. What do I have to kill and where to get higher level Marks of Potency?
I actually freed up quite a lot of space in my bags. Happy about that.
I'm a relatively 'new' player to NW, but I haven't spent 1 single $, Z or AD on a Coal. ward yet, and I have many (read:dozens) of 7, 8 and 9 Runes/Ench socketed and bagged on 5 different toons. I've used one and only one, Coal. ward which I got from envoking to make the lvl 8 the rest is probably all up about 500 Z on Pres. wards.
The new system greatly reduces these requirements.
Neverwinter Census 2017
All posts pending disapproval by Cecilia
They're not referring to radiants/darks/etc, they are talking about weapon/armor enchants. You need 4 shards + a coal ward to make a lesser enchant. The % chance to upgrade is 1%. Good luck using preservation wards to upgrade those. So yes, to get from shards to perfect weapon/armor enchants, you needed a farkton of coal wards. Not sure on that 85 number, as I was told there would be no math, so I'm not going to do it.
Still, I can see Rune/Ench farmers/AH sellers, having room issues with many half upgraded gems, but for those, like me, who really only have the socketed ones, it's a big improvement. Strokes <--> Folkes I guess
What ever happen to the ideal that business owners provide a quality product for their customers as an aspect of the transaction? Why does crafting have to be some convoluted mess? Like rare recipes for instance, in what fantasy setting does the blacksmith forget how to make a piece of equipment he made the day before? But 3 days later he remembers again?
Many of us did give our feedback about how bad the new system was. Sadly too many short sighted people gave feedback in favor of the new system.
Coal wards are not the be all end all of the refining system which many people sighted as being what made the new system good, oh it uses less wards......great but it also requires far more shards and enchants to rank stuff before you can refine it. Case in point, it used to only require 4 level 4 enchants to make a level 5. Now it requires 9 level 4 enchants to rank up 1 level 4 enchant + 2 reagents to make a level 5.
How the hell is that better?
Not exactly. It takes 9 different type level 4 enchants to make a level 5. If you use matching types (i.e. darks for a dark), it requires the same amount amount as before. Also, it wastes RP to rank lowers up to level 4 to make a level 5. Just feed enchants to the one you want to upgrade - don't do it in steps.
Not having to unslot to upgrade enchants is where the AD trade-off to buy reagents comes in. Most people did not unslot enchants due to the AD cost, which is why the AD cost seems so high now. I did for my R5 Savages. If I recall correctly, that was around 36k AD, which is more than a 25K Mark of Potency. And I did it a few times as I changed items before I had enough of paying that cost and just banked the items until I felt like it would be worth unslotting them again. So comparing system to system, it is cheaper - it just might not be cheaper than how you used the old system.
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Syrus Greycloak, Level 30 Moon Elf Control Wizard
Lucan Huntinghawk, Level 17 Moon Elf Hunter Ranger
Sacred Silver Blades (www.sacredkeep.com)
This.
Like I said earlier, the giant change is that the illusion of top enchants is now not as far out of reach as it was previously. This tempts more people into spending money to level up, but overall, it's more difficult.
Yes, you need less coal wards, but the lower drop rates and the reagents, will end up putting us in the same position. Needing to spend AD to level up in a reasonable time frame.
The only difference is that now, at first blush, it doesn't FEEL like it's overly challenging/expensive to get to the top, it feels like we are almost there, and who is there to capitalize on that feeling???
I would like Coals to be a little less of an issue to gain (I really don't get the reasoning behind Celestial coins vanishing, its such a "sorry you had important real life stuff get in the way of your fun hobby qctivity, nah not really" thing) & the reagants to drop a little more frequently.
However overall I have found the new system to be much better for gearing up while leveling. With invoking, leadership and daily quests for AD there will be no troubles hitting the requirements for reaching Rank 5. By 60 with salvaging etc I don't expect much trouble with paying the costs; the big thing will be the ease of changing enchants to test different combinations out.
So yes the new system can be better still, but for me it is an improvement on the prior system.
Obsidian Oath - Warlock
A whole lot of other Obsidian toons as well.