If you are really worried about mix/maxing a cleric then you should play a human, nearly every build on the internet for most of the classes say that the 3 extra feats are more useful than the extra 2 attributes points.
I guess if you want a cleric race they coul add the aasimar, it s quite cleric and paladin oriented, or even bards (aasimar are the oposite of thieflings, instead of half demon they are half celestial, and they have hot babes)
You dont understand, i deleted 2 human cleric because they are bad. Ask other clerics, they wont suggest a human even for pve.
You dont understand, i deleted 2 human cleric because they are bad. Ask other clerics, they wont suggest a human even for pve.
Nobody realy cares which race you are, i ve seen dorw and thiefling clerics, the +2 to an attribute don t matter too much in the long run (in best cases you can get a +2% crit or something like that, plus non class abilities also give you some bonus); but the cleric class itself it s pretty weak when compared to the other classes. Anyway, i didn t enter this thread to talk about game mechanics but about the FUN of playing new races and classes.
I just want a race with str/cha wis/cha or str/wis roll... Clerics have no race with their primary and secondary ability score included in race ability since beta.
So... Dragonborn (+2 Cha, +2 Str or Con), Deva* (+2 Wis, +2 Int or Cha) and Svirfneblin (+2 Wis, +2 Str or Con)? Although I kinda doubt us getting Svirfneblin anytime before we get the main Gnome race (+2 Int, +2 Cha or Dex).
*I STILL hate the fluff for this race. Why WotC? Why? If the name Aasimar was the problem, then fine, change that to Deva. But the Devas background, as writen in 4.0, is so uninspiring...
Here's a paladin class idea, to differentiate them from GFs: a polearm/spear specialist. I don't know of much DnD precedent for this, since DnD spears were always underpowered, but there is maybe some weak historical precedent: paladins were Frankish knights, and originally the Franks fought dismounted, with spears. Anyway, spear/staff/polearm martial arts are fun to watch, and it's something this game could use.
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dardoveMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Here's a paladin class idea, to differentiate them from GFs: a polearm/spear specialist. I don't know of much DnD precedent for this, since DnD spears were always underpowered, but there is maybe some weak historical precedent: paladins were Frankish knights, and originally the Franks fought dismounted, with spears. Anyway, spear/staff/polearm martial arts are fun to watch, and it's something this game could use.
Personally, I was hoping if any class got polearms it would be warlords.
I never player 4ed so i don t know how attribute bonuses work there, but if that is the problem with clerics, changing the the mechanism a bit would help. Instead of hving one fixed +2 and one customizable, you can have each race (cept humans) have to choose 2 of their 3 possible attributes. Adding a race just to be clerics will only take customization away from the class, any cleric would have to be of that specific race and any cleric who isn t won t be taken into parties.
I still think that if you have a class that is weak aside from the race you pick, then what really needs a fixing is the class itself. It s like if your sister crashes 3 cars in a month and you complain to car companies for not making idiot proof cars! Take your sister to driving school!
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schweifer1982Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,662Arc User
edited February 2014
The most problems come from this :
We have weak classes in NW .
There are much more powerfull classes in D&Đ.
But 1 thing is sure the best figther in forgotten realms is Drizzt and the ranger in NW absolutly not fit the role of good close combat no companions no summons. HR more look like Arcane Archer to me . I have deep hope in more D&D like paladin and druid comes out in next patch. Lets hope druid will have summons and shape change and lets hope paladin will have some smite of evil and lay on heand at least .
schweifer1982Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,662Arc User
edited February 2014
Suggestion: Druid
2 type of encounters like HR class have .
Tab :switch summoning to shape change encounters .
Shift: nature around me. short time immun to cc whit no doge or teleport max 2 use per full stamina
Paragons : Dire Bear(tank type)/Dire wolf(single target dps)/Tiger(AOE dps)
All shape change ability melee.
All summoning ability ranged spells like summon giant bear to take the target down and leave them prone and do some dmg ...like this.ofc awesome animation .
schweifer1982Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,662Arc User
edited February 2014
Suggestion :Paladin
Total melee class full plate and extra resist on controll effects (main stat char).
Tab : Lay on heand
Shift : Block
Encounters like smite of evil do dmg and daze for x sec.
Aura buffs.
Hammer main wep..
Here's a paladin class idea, to differentiate them from GFs: a polearm/spear specialist. I don't know of much DnD precedent for this, since DnD spears were always underpowered, but there is maybe some weak historical precedent: paladins were Frankish knights, and originally the Franks fought dismounted, with spears. Anyway, spear/staff/polearm martial arts are fun to watch, and it's something this game could use.
The problem with that is DnD lore. Clerics and Paladins were restricted to Non-edged weapons (i.e maces and hammers) So a pokearm being a spear/axe on the and of a staff would be a problem..it's EDGED. So is a spear (sort of pointy )
Other lore had wizards/warlocks restricted from steel / iron weapons and armor (the metal interfered with the cosmic energies). The only metal weapon they could use were daggers and they were silver or bone most times. Other than that they used staffs and rods.
AASIMAR launched with the BARD class (aasimar, like thiefling but with celestial blood)
GNOME launched with the TINKER class (uses a blunderbuss and a bag of tricks)
I see the druid as an extension of the HR class, and the paladin class would be a bit redundant.
Same as it ever was :-( When I played my EQ cleric over a decade ago, I'd get drafted into a group 2 zones away 30 seconds after logging in. No one liked to play them because soloing was impossible and group play = sit, meditate, stand, heal, sit again = boring. I picked a HR precisely because of that experience, but in a dungeon it's a little similar; aggro more than one mob and I'm a dead duck. I'd kill for an old-school "soothe" power to remove aggro, or a camo power to better hide from sudden adds. Get jumped at the wrong time and the HR is pushing up daisies if there are mobs everywhere.
I admit I'm a 4e newb, though; my PnP group uses 2e, often with 1e or converted BX modules. I just can't make the mental leap to call this D&D (though neither was EQ, aka timesink from Hades).
Any HR tips would be greatly appreciated!
Harper Chronicles: Cap Snatchers (RELEASED) - NW-DPUTABC6X Blood Magic (RELEASED) - NW-DUU2P7HCO Children of the Fey (RELEASED) - NW-DKSSAPFPF Buried Under Blacklake (WIP) - NW-DEDV2PAEP The Redcap Rebels (WIP) - NW-DO23AFHFH
My Foundry playthrough channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/Ruskaga/featured
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dardoveMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
AASIMAR launched with the BARD class (aasimar, like thiefling but with celestial blood)
GNOME launched with the TINKER class (uses a blunderbuss and a bag of tricks)
I see the druid as an extension of the HR class, and the paladin class would be a bit redundant.
Assimar were replaced with Devas in 4th edition
There is also no tinker class in 4th edition. The closest you have to that is artificer, but that is Eberron, not Forgotten Realms.
Assimar were replaced with Devas in 4th edition
There is also no tinker class in 4th edition. The closest you have to that is artificer, but that is Eberron, not Forgotten Realms.
Tinker gnomes were from dragonlance (in 2nd ed at least), but i guess you can add and illusionist gnome, and give him a blunderbuss anyway
I've seen a lot of Class love lately, especially for Paladins (in fact, I've been inspired to make another of these threads for Paladins, if this one meets with any success. I blame the NewNew Class Request thread); but today I'd like to take a different approach to sharing my enthusiasm, and call on any in the community with a like mind to do the same.
I'm going to start an open brainstorm on a Neverwinter Bard class.
I've always enjoyed the Bard class on PnP; it offered a route for us support-minded individuals who didn't want to be tied town to the Cleric's traditional feel or clunky heavily-armored fighting style, and had a ton of versatility you could use to make it whatever you wanted to play. I know, for that very reason, that creating a bard class in a D&D based MMO must be a nightmare (because everyone wants something different out of it), but I'm going to try throwing some stuff out here, and hopefully one of you guys will be inspired to run with it and think of your own ideas (and if enough of us are contributing, maybe we can even give Cryptic some ideas) Here's what I can remember of what came to me whilst I was waiting for Thread-posting privileges.
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The Bard~ (Cool adjectives for this name, anyone? I've heard "Valorous Bard" from the PHB a few times.)
Synopsis~
(:rolleyes: the list code colors your text! I didn't know this >.> anyway.)
4e Bards are Leaders with controlly tendencies, and I don't want to change that, but their exact role in a party will probably vary heavily depending on how they're built. The Skald/Warchanter/Bardbarian, for example, has carved out an impressive niche in the class's history, so it may be highly successful to allow a very specific build of Bard to function as a secondary Damage Dealer, perhaps reinforced by one of the class's Paragon Paths (another thing I don't know a ton about, since I haven't reached lvl 30 yet.)
I need to take a brief moment to talk about
Items, since every class has had a more or less unique equipment loadout, and I rather like that (I've seen a lot of griping about it, but I can work with it.) For the purposes of this brainstorm, I've chosen the Rapier as the Bard's Primary Weapon, to give his At-wills that dramatic swashbucklery feel, and to allow the option for a Melee combat bard later on if a player wants to build that way. (Only a couple Bard At-Wills, in this layout, would be melee attacks with the rapier. The rest would be ranged spells with less dps and more control; shout out if you have ideas on this.) I've been indecisive about what to put in the Bard's secondary slot, if only because the idea of putting an Instrument there conjures up a rather silly mental image, even if it wouldn't be shown while fighting. I've also considered a wand, since that's the 4e Bard's implement in the PHB 2, but I would think that Wands would have already been used somewhere >.> and I just haven't seen them yet.
As for a specific light Armor, my vote goes to the Chain shirt for a chest piece, though Chain armor already exists. Padded Armor is always an option too, although that might be hard to make look good xD
Back to abilities, though. This deserves it's own thingy. Abilities~
I feel a little weird about making specific Encounter and Daily Powers for a class concept, since all the abilities need to be balanced against each other, but I can at least try'n give a general idea of the direction each set might take. I'm going to start with the little ones, though.
For the Bard's Dodge ability: Leap~ or something similar (my skill in naming things isn't great). This would be, visually, a magically aided horizontal jump~ something mildly floaty, but too quick to be odd-looking. I'm having difficulty describing this image properly
Anyway, functionally, it would about match the Cleric's dodge, or be somewhere between the Cleric and the Rogue.
I imagine the progression of Bardic At-Wills to go something like~ A basic Rapier Melee attack (secondary effect pending) at first level, followed by the most Leader-like ranged magic attack to function effectively as your Astral Seal: if any of the Bard's At will's would have healing potential, it'd be this one.
Later at the 20 point or whatever mark is where you'd pick up your most control-oriented magic ranged attack, and your Paragon Path dependent At-will would either be a more Dps-oriented Melee attack for the combat bard, or a more traditional ranged spell for the class's other paragon path. This way, no matter what you build, you could be entirely ranged, entirely melee, Leadership focused (I'm thinking that one leadership power would be the target of at least a couple Paragon feats, in the same way that Astral Seal is, if you wanted to build a more healing-oriented bard), or control-focused.
I apologize that I cannot be more specific. I originally have more defined ideas, but it's been like four days: I've been thinking too much about Paladins, and never thought to write any of this down when it first came to mind. Anyway.
I really wanted Threat Management to have a place in the Bard's Encounter Powers somewhere. Misdirection is part of the Bard's thing, and their heavy emphasis on Illusion and Enchantment magics gives it a lot of opportunity. I personally would love to see some sort of... Invisibility? Buff or Spell to throw off accumulated Aggro, similar to how the Rogue's Stealth ability can. I thought it was important to distinguish the Bard's style of healing from the Cleric's as to not step on their toes, and it seems like it may be a good idea to spread the Bard's healing across a few abilities, so that in order to make a Bard that functions effectively as a primary healer, you need to devote multiple encounter powers to it; or, if you have some other role, you can function as a less-effective secondary healer to a party that already has a Cleric in it, without messing up what he already has going on xD it's a difficult balance. The Bard has always focused more on buffs anyway, so it might be more wise to implement healing through Paragon Feats (I'm seeing at this point the Bard's Paragon Feat trees split between a Healing-heavy Bard, a "True" balanced or controlly/buffy bard, and an Aggressive Bard. Again, thoughts are welcomed.
Dailies are hard... so I'm going to save this for the time being.
The Tab Ability! So Vital, and an opportunity to show off what makes Bards Bards. I had a bit of trouble with this one, but an ability comes to mind that switches around either your At-will powers or your Encounter powers, similarly to how the Cleric's Divine power switches out his At-Wills. In this case, you would be entering "Bardic Performance", so you would lose access to one or the other set of abilities and gain access to a couple of AoE effect options (I'm sort of reminded of Sona from LoL in this case) that could bolster your allies, debilitate your enemies, or both. The actual effects would have to depend on the balance of the class, but I'm sure you can see where I'm going.
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So, that's my direction~ Now, what does the community think? I want your ideas too~ whether completely new and terribly vague like mine, or even specific powers or traits you'd like to see, with as much detail as you like (since my ideas seem to have degraded into the terribly vague category; sadface). I want to hear from you x) Think I'm doing this wrong? Tell me about it~ Think I'm doing it right? Tell me about it~ and more importantly, tell me how you'd play it. My goal is to stir up ideas and create excitement, so feel free to chip in with whatever you have.
The only thing I ask is that we keep this particular thread specifically focused on the Bard class, since I don't intend for this to be another NewNew Class request thread. Like I mentioned up top, if people like this, I've had a lot of ideas about Paladins in my spare time and will make one for them too, but if you have a class that you would like built, I would love to see another thread like this pop up from someone else about the Monk or the Avenger, and I would most certainly go give my two cents
So~ Let's Build a Class. The ball is in your court now.
HASDKEJ@!#$^!^
I forgot a thing~ Stats.
Primary: Charisma, +1% Damage/Healing
Secondary: Intelligence, ? (originally I put Recharge speed, but then... Int already gives you that)
Secondary: Dexterity, +1% Critical Chance?
It needs something, but something other than Action Point gain, since that absence speaks to the Bard's place as a less defensive Leader.
TL2R, but all in all, yes a bard would be a nice addition
*I always wanted a pet based summoner class but with the current state of A.I. for companions/npcs... not gonna happen... Bard is more likely.
I want to know why people call the GF class useless ? Im playing GF class lvl 22 so should i roll a new class ? Am mostly a PVE person.
some are useless, not all.
it's just a difficult job to keep aggro away from HR's CW's going balls to the wall.
most can't.
What's the use of a tank when he can't tank?
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bioshrikeMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,729Arc User
I want to know why people call the GF class useless ? Im playing GF class lvl 22 so should i roll a new class ? Am mostly a PVE person.
The problem stems from how taunting works in NW - you mark a target, and they suffer a debuff until they hit you. It's not a "hard taunt" like in other games, where the enemy is forced to attack you - you basically become more annoying, and they may attack you.
A forced taunt effect would help GFs be more desirable while teaming, but it could also trivialize content further, as other players basically wouldn't have to worry about aggro at all. The mark ability needs to be made stronger and more reliable, while also not permitting others to basically ignore concerns about drawing aggro themselves.
<::::::::::::::)xxxo <::::::::::::::)xxxo <::::::::::::)xxxxxxxx(:::::::::::> oxxx(::::::::::::::> oxxx(::::::::::::::> "Is it better to be feared or respected? I say, is it too much to ask for both?" -Tony Stark Official NW_Legit_Community Forums
I've been indecisive about what to put in the Bard's secondary slot, if only because the idea of putting an Instrument there conjures up a rather silly mental image, even if it wouldn't be shown while fighting.
Fun! An offhand instrument could be the pan pipes, but you're right, it would look silly. Maybe better just to have the bard go a capella? Or whistle the tunes, then they could use the same track for male and female bards.
I don't know how the melee at-wills will be for a healer. Staying on a target, watching the ranged DPS, dodging the red zones... I'd like to see it work.
Other bard ideas: main hand lute, basically caster as in LOTRO; or crossbow like Deekin in NWN1. For the last, I'm envisioning something like the HR with Tab as a sword/crossbow switch, and Encounters that are mainly buffs or control.
EDIT: ocarina for bard offhand wouldn't look too bad; dual-wielding xbow and rapier would be very swashbuckling, but probably better for a rogue archetype.
:O You threw me in the NewNew thread! you HAMSTER >:E (joking, of course. No offense meant.)
Well, that's that. I guess the thread stands; context pending.
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redspade420Member, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 1Arc User
edited February 2014
so im not two sure what there planning for the next class but id love to see the favored soul, monk or pally come in to play these were 3 of my fav class's that are not in play of neverwinter nights and i feel would make a big mark in the game one pally because of the aura's and selfies for heals makes a wonderful tank then favored soul because of the overpowerd buffs or fun caster/melee type class and then last but not least the monk over all the fun pvp/pve solo class self heals plus mad dps idk what everyone else feels about this but please share comments and neverwinter would love to hear what you guy's have to say and how you feel about these class's over all.
right now we need at least 4 more must classes in the game, and the paladin, monk or favored soul are not even in the top 20.
right now the big three in terms of incoming characters seems to be
warlock
druid
fighter class (potentially paladin but not confirmed, I think Gaurdian fighter was trying to fill that archetype)
each class is said to come in 3 months, and it will take them at least 2 years to get to the more obscure ones so dont get your hopes up, because without the more mainstream classes being done first it is unlikely there will be any demand for those 3, otehr than monk, monks are awesome.
also this game probably wont last till 2016 so i really dont think we will see anything past 3 more classes before perfect world decides to put the nail in the coffin, at least until a lot of the bugs are fixed. what you dont realize about the game is right now its pretty **** broken and I think adding any new classes for the next 6 months would be a terrible idea, because balance is non existant and bugs are more common than things working as it stands.
right now the big three in terms of incoming characters seems to be
warlock
druid
fighter class (potentially paladin but not confirmed, I think Gaurdian fighter was trying to fill that archetype)
Warlock is in the works everyone know that, and it a class I want to see. Druid as well actually. We already have 2 'fighters', don't need any more. Paladin is NOT fighter, it is its own separate class, with its own variations.
each class is said to come in 3 months, and it will take them at least 2 years to get to the more obscure ones so dont get your hopes up, because without the more mainstream classes being done first it is unlikely there will be any demand for those 3, otehr than monk, monks are awesome.
Monk and paladin are VERY mainstream, both in Forgotten Realms lore, and in games in general. Both fill a demand that many players have. The flavor and focus of these classes are both very distinct. I personally know several people that flat out WONT start playing this game till Paladin is implemented.
also this game probably wont last till 2016 so i really dont think we will see anything past 3 more classes before perfect world decides to put the nail in the coffin, at least until a lot of the bugs are fixed. what you dont realize about the game is right now its pretty **** broken and I think adding any new classes for the next 6 months would be a terrible idea, because balance is non existant and bugs are more common than things working as it stands.
still this is a hella fun game
New classes are the bread and butter of this game. New classes mean new characters, and new characters mean new revenue for cryptic, because then you need to kit them out with all the stuff zen can get you. The doom and gloom mentality here is simply untrue, and a typical attitude shown to games at this point in lifecycle regardless of the state of the game.
double signed for getting monk and paladin the the works for development
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dardoveMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited February 2014
I doubt we will ever see Favored Soul since it never made the transitions from 3.5 to 4th edition.
According to who? Every thread I see monk and pally are the most asked for.
Warlock is in the works everyone know that, and it a class I want to see. Druid as well actually. We already have 2 'fighters', don't need any more. Paladin is NOT fighter, it is its own separate class, with its own variations.
Monk and paladin are VERY mainstream, both in Forgotten Realms lore, and in games in general. Both fill a demand that many players have. The flavor and focus of these classes are both very distinct. I personally know several people that flat out WONT start playing this game till Paladin is implemented.
New classes are the bread and butter of this game. New classes mean new characters, and new characters mean new revenue for cryptic, because then you need to kit them out with all the stuff zen can get you. The doom and gloom mentality here is simply untrue, and a typical attitude shown to games at this point in lifecycle regardless of the state of the game.
double signed for getting monk and paladin the the works for development
i actually did my research on paladin and i realize i was completely wrong on that front, but i see very few request for monks over all, perhaps thats just me.
in regards to your bread and butter comment, the game is incredibly broken as it stands and it really does need fixing, i agree more classes would be awesome and i would be at the forefront for supporting them but with the amount of inequalities in the game the expierance slowly gets deprived of its wonders as you realize all thats wrong with it. I would love a new class, but i think they should slow it down a bit with how fast they are going forward and focus on fixing things first instead.
Also i really love this game and I would love for it to succeed, i never said once in the post i didnt want a monk or a paladin, i would play the HAMSTER out of a monk, that class would be awesome
If you are not seeing monk requests you may want to look a little closer. Since I started this game every class thread I have seen has the monk listed in it. The game needs an unarmed fighter, and a dual wield fighter in a bad way.
Also if PW is letting CO stay up, they will sure as heck leave this up.
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glithanesMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited February 2014
Cryptic when willl we get our 7th and 8th and 9th classes?
Also our 3rd paragon path for the current 6 classes what is the timeline etc?
Comments
You dont understand, i deleted 2 human cleric because they are bad. Ask other clerics, they wont suggest a human even for pve.
Nobody realy cares which race you are, i ve seen dorw and thiefling clerics, the +2 to an attribute don t matter too much in the long run (in best cases you can get a +2% crit or something like that, plus non class abilities also give you some bonus); but the cleric class itself it s pretty weak when compared to the other classes. Anyway, i didn t enter this thread to talk about game mechanics but about the FUN of playing new races and classes.
So... Dragonborn (+2 Cha, +2 Str or Con), Deva* (+2 Wis, +2 Int or Cha) and Svirfneblin (+2 Wis, +2 Str or Con)? Although I kinda doubt us getting Svirfneblin anytime before we get the main Gnome race (+2 Int, +2 Cha or Dex).
*I STILL hate the fluff for this race. Why WotC? Why? If the name Aasimar was the problem, then fine, change that to Deva. But the Devas background, as writen in 4.0, is so uninspiring...
Personally, I was hoping if any class got polearms it would be warlords.
I still think that if you have a class that is weak aside from the race you pick, then what really needs a fixing is the class itself. It s like if your sister crashes 3 cars in a month and you complain to car companies for not making idiot proof cars! Take your sister to driving school!
We have weak classes in NW .
There are much more powerfull classes in D&Đ.
But 1 thing is sure the best figther in forgotten realms is Drizzt and the ranger in NW absolutly not fit the role of good close combat no companions no summons. HR more look like Arcane Archer to me . I have deep hope in more D&D like paladin and druid comes out in next patch. Lets hope druid will have summons and shape change and lets hope paladin will have some smite of evil and lay on heand at least .
2 type of encounters like HR class have .
Tab :switch summoning to shape change encounters .
Shift: nature around me. short time immun to cc whit no doge or teleport max 2 use per full stamina
Paragons : Dire Bear(tank type)/Dire wolf(single target dps)/Tiger(AOE dps)
All shape change ability melee.
All summoning ability ranged spells like summon giant bear to take the target down and leave them prone and do some dmg ...like this.ofc awesome animation
Total melee class full plate and extra resist on controll effects (main stat char).
Tab : Lay on heand
Shift : Block
Encounters like smite of evil do dmg and daze for x sec.
Aura buffs.
Hammer main wep..
The problem with that is DnD lore. Clerics and Paladins were restricted to Non-edged weapons (i.e maces and hammers) So a pokearm being a spear/axe on the and of a staff would be a problem..it's EDGED. So is a spear (sort of pointy
Other lore had wizards/warlocks restricted from steel / iron weapons and armor (the metal interfered with the cosmic energies). The only metal weapon they could use were daggers and they were silver or bone most times. Other than that they used staffs and rods.
AASIMAR launched with the BARD class (aasimar, like thiefling but with celestial blood)
GNOME launched with the TINKER class (uses a blunderbuss and a bag of tricks)
I see the druid as an extension of the HR class, and the paladin class would be a bit redundant.
I admit I'm a 4e newb, though; my PnP group uses 2e, often with 1e or converted BX modules. I just can't make the mental leap to call this D&D (though neither was EQ, aka timesink from Hades).
Any HR tips would be greatly appreciated!
Blood Magic (RELEASED) - NW-DUU2P7HCO
Children of the Fey (RELEASED) - NW-DKSSAPFPF
Buried Under Blacklake (WIP) - NW-DEDV2PAEP
The Redcap Rebels (WIP) - NW-DO23AFHFH
My Foundry playthrough channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/Ruskaga/featured
Assimar were replaced with Devas in 4th edition
There is also no tinker class in 4th edition. The closest you have to that is artificer, but that is Eberron, not Forgotten Realms.
I've seen a lot of Class love lately, especially for Paladins (in fact, I've been inspired to make another of these threads for Paladins, if this one meets with any success. I blame the NewNew Class Request thread); but today I'd like to take a different approach to sharing my enthusiasm, and call on any in the community with a like mind to do the same.
I'm going to start an open brainstorm on a Neverwinter Bard class.
I've always enjoyed the Bard class on PnP; it offered a route for us support-minded individuals who didn't want to be tied town to the Cleric's traditional feel or clunky heavily-armored fighting style, and had a ton of versatility you could use to make it whatever you wanted to play. I know, for that very reason, that creating a bard class in a D&D based MMO must be a nightmare (because everyone wants something different out of it), but I'm going to try throwing some stuff out here, and hopefully one of you guys will be inspired to run with it and think of your own ideas (and if enough of us are contributing, maybe we can even give Cryptic some ideas)
=======================================================================================
~~ And it doesn't seem this forum has a Spoiler Code, so this thing will be the divider if you don't want to read ~~
=======================================================================================
The Bard~ (Cool adjectives for this name, anyone? I've heard "Valorous Bard" from the PHB a few times.)
Synopsis~
(:rolleyes: the list code colors your text! I didn't know this >.> anyway.) 4e Bards are Leaders with controlly tendencies, and I don't want to change that, but their exact role in a party will probably vary heavily depending on how they're built. The Skald/Warchanter/Bardbarian, for example, has carved out an impressive niche in the class's history, so it may be highly successful to allow a very specific build of Bard to function as a secondary Damage Dealer, perhaps reinforced by one of the class's Paragon Paths (another thing I don't know a ton about, since I haven't reached lvl 30 yet.) I need to take a brief moment to talk about
Items, since every class has had a more or less unique equipment loadout, and I rather like that (I've seen a lot of griping about it, but I can work with it.) For the purposes of this brainstorm, I've chosen the Rapier as the Bard's Primary Weapon, to give his At-wills that dramatic swashbucklery feel, and to allow the option for a Melee combat bard later on if a player wants to build that way. (Only a couple Bard At-Wills, in this layout, would be melee attacks with the rapier. The rest would be ranged spells with less dps and more control; shout out if you have ideas on this.) I've been indecisive about what to put in the Bard's secondary slot, if only because the idea of putting an Instrument there conjures up a rather silly mental image, even if it wouldn't be shown while fighting. I've also considered a wand, since that's the 4e Bard's implement in the PHB 2, but I would think that Wands would have already been used somewhere >.> and I just haven't seen them yet.As for a specific light Armor, my vote goes to the Chain shirt for a chest piece, though Chain armor already exists. Padded Armor is always an option too, although that might be hard to make look good xD
Back to abilities, though. This deserves it's own thingy.
Abilities~
I feel a little weird about making specific Encounter and Daily Powers for a class concept, since all the abilities need to be balanced against each other, but I can at least try'n give a general idea of the direction each set might take. I'm going to start with the little ones, though.- For the Bard's Dodge ability: Leap~ or something similar (my skill in naming things isn't great). This would be, visually, a magically aided horizontal jump~ something mildly floaty, but too quick to be odd-looking. I'm having difficulty describing this image properly
- I imagine the progression of Bardic At-Wills to go something like~ A basic Rapier Melee attack (secondary effect pending) at first level, followed by the most Leader-like ranged magic attack to function effectively as your Astral Seal: if any of the Bard's At will's would have healing potential, it'd be this one.
- I really wanted Threat Management to have a place in the Bard's Encounter Powers somewhere. Misdirection is part of the Bard's thing, and their heavy emphasis on Illusion and Enchantment magics gives it a lot of opportunity. I personally would love to see some sort of... Invisibility? Buff or Spell to throw off accumulated Aggro, similar to how the Rogue's Stealth ability can. I thought it was important to distinguish the Bard's style of healing from the Cleric's as to not step on their toes, and it seems like it may be a good idea to spread the Bard's healing across a few abilities, so that in order to make a Bard that functions effectively as a primary healer, you need to devote multiple encounter powers to it; or, if you have some other role, you can function as a less-effective secondary healer to a party that already has a Cleric in it, without messing up what he already has going on xD it's a difficult balance. The Bard has always focused more on buffs anyway, so it might be more wise to implement healing through Paragon Feats (I'm seeing at this point the Bard's Paragon Feat trees split between a Healing-heavy Bard, a "True" balanced or controlly/buffy bard, and an Aggressive Bard. Again, thoughts are welcomed.
- Dailies are hard... so I'm going to save this for the time being.
- The Tab Ability! So Vital, and an opportunity to show off what makes Bards Bards. I had a bit of trouble with this one, but an ability comes to mind that switches around either your At-will powers or your Encounter powers, similarly to how the Cleric's Divine power switches out his At-Wills. In this case, you would be entering "Bardic Performance", so you would lose access to one or the other set of abilities and gain access to a couple of AoE effect options (I'm sort of reminded of Sona from LoL in this case) that could bolster your allies, debilitate your enemies, or both. The actual effects would have to depend on the balance of the class, but I'm sure you can see where I'm going.
Anyway, functionally, it would about match the Cleric's dodge, or be somewhere between the Cleric and the Rogue.
Later at the 20 point or whatever mark is where you'd pick up your most control-oriented magic ranged attack, and your Paragon Path dependent At-will would either be a more Dps-oriented Melee attack for the combat bard, or a more traditional ranged spell for the class's other paragon path. This way, no matter what you build, you could be entirely ranged, entirely melee, Leadership focused (I'm thinking that one leadership power would be the target of at least a couple Paragon feats, in the same way that Astral Seal is, if you wanted to build a more healing-oriented bard), or control-focused.
I apologize that I cannot be more specific. I originally have more defined ideas, but it's been like four days: I've been thinking too much about Paladins, and never thought to write any of this down when it first came to mind. Anyway.
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So, that's my direction~ Now, what does the community think? I want your ideas too~ whether completely new and terribly vague like mine, or even specific powers or traits you'd like to see, with as much detail as you like (since my ideas seem to have degraded into the terribly vague category; sadface). I want to hear from you x) Think I'm doing this wrong? Tell me about it~ Think I'm doing it right? Tell me about it~ and more importantly, tell me how you'd play it. My goal is to stir up ideas and create excitement, so feel free to chip in with whatever you have.
The only thing I ask is that we keep this particular thread specifically focused on the Bard class, since I don't intend for this to be another NewNew Class request thread. Like I mentioned up top, if people like this, I've had a lot of ideas about Paladins in my spare time and will make one for them too, but if you have a class that you would like built, I would love to see another thread like this pop up from someone else about the Monk or the Avenger, and I would most certainly go give my two cents
So~ Let's Build a Class. The ball is in your court now.
HASDKEJ@!#$^!^
I forgot a thing~ Stats.
Primary: Charisma, +1% Damage/Healing
Secondary: Intelligence, ? (originally I put Recharge speed, but then... Int already gives you that)
Secondary: Dexterity, +1% Critical Chance?
It needs something, but something other than Action Point gain, since that absence speaks to the Bard's place as a less defensive Leader.
*I always wanted a pet based summoner class but with the current state of A.I. for companions/npcs... not gonna happen... Bard is more likely.
some are useless, not all.
it's just a difficult job to keep aggro away from HR's CW's going balls to the wall.
most can't.
What's the use of a tank when he can't tank?
The problem stems from how taunting works in NW - you mark a target, and they suffer a debuff until they hit you. It's not a "hard taunt" like in other games, where the enemy is forced to attack you - you basically become more annoying, and they may attack you.
A forced taunt effect would help GFs be more desirable while teaming, but it could also trivialize content further, as other players basically wouldn't have to worry about aggro at all. The mark ability needs to be made stronger and more reliable, while also not permitting others to basically ignore concerns about drawing aggro themselves.
"Is it better to be feared or respected? I say, is it too much to ask for both?" -Tony Stark
Official NW_Legit_Community Forums
Fun! An offhand instrument could be the pan pipes, but you're right, it would look silly. Maybe better just to have the bard go a capella? Or whistle the tunes, then they could use the same track for male and female bards.
I don't know how the melee at-wills will be for a healer. Staying on a target, watching the ranged DPS, dodging the red zones... I'd like to see it work.
Other bard ideas: main hand lute, basically caster as in LOTRO; or crossbow like Deekin in NWN1. For the last, I'm envisioning something like the HR with Tab as a sword/crossbow switch, and Encounters that are mainly buffs or control.
EDIT: ocarina for bard offhand wouldn't look too bad; dual-wielding xbow and rapier would be very swashbuckling, but probably better for a rogue archetype.
Well, that's that. I guess the thread stands; context pending.
right now the big three in terms of incoming characters seems to be
warlock
druid
fighter class (potentially paladin but not confirmed, I think Gaurdian fighter was trying to fill that archetype)
each class is said to come in 3 months, and it will take them at least 2 years to get to the more obscure ones so dont get your hopes up, because without the more mainstream classes being done first it is unlikely there will be any demand for those 3, otehr than monk, monks are awesome.
also this game probably wont last till 2016 so i really dont think we will see anything past 3 more classes before perfect world decides to put the nail in the coffin, at least until a lot of the bugs are fixed. what you dont realize about the game is right now its pretty **** broken and I think adding any new classes for the next 6 months would be a terrible idea, because balance is non existant and bugs are more common than things working as it stands.
still this is a hella fun game
According to who? Every thread I see monk and pally are the most asked for.
Warlock is in the works everyone know that, and it a class I want to see. Druid as well actually. We already have 2 'fighters', don't need any more. Paladin is NOT fighter, it is its own separate class, with its own variations.
Monk and paladin are VERY mainstream, both in Forgotten Realms lore, and in games in general. Both fill a demand that many players have. The flavor and focus of these classes are both very distinct. I personally know several people that flat out WONT start playing this game till Paladin is implemented.
New classes are the bread and butter of this game. New classes mean new characters, and new characters mean new revenue for cryptic, because then you need to kit them out with all the stuff zen can get you. The doom and gloom mentality here is simply untrue, and a typical attitude shown to games at this point in lifecycle regardless of the state of the game.
double signed for getting monk and paladin the the works for development
i actually did my research on paladin and i realize i was completely wrong on that front, but i see very few request for monks over all, perhaps thats just me.
in regards to your bread and butter comment, the game is incredibly broken as it stands and it really does need fixing, i agree more classes would be awesome and i would be at the forefront for supporting them but with the amount of inequalities in the game the expierance slowly gets deprived of its wonders as you realize all thats wrong with it. I would love a new class, but i think they should slow it down a bit with how fast they are going forward and focus on fixing things first instead.
Also i really love this game and I would love for it to succeed, i never said once in the post i didnt want a monk or a paladin, i would play the HAMSTER out of a monk, that class would be awesome
Also if PW is letting CO stay up, they will sure as heck leave this up.
Also our 3rd paragon path for the current 6 classes what is the timeline etc?