Why are character models so ugly?

reiwulf

I have been playing NW for a few weeks, and I love it, to me, the foundry has make a huge difference, it's virtually unlimited content.
There are 2 things that bug me a lot though. The instanced world and ugly character models. I'm not going into the instanced world now because I've given my opinion in other threads already, but what happened to character models?
I have played AION and TERA and even If I know that now ALL chars have to look like models, I have yet to find some good looking options in NW, it's like they took the time to make them ugly. At least for males, haven't made a female char yet. Most of them have too low mouths, even with the slider all the way up, weirdly rotated eyes, and look like they're always angry, not giving much choice in it.
CO had an amazing character customization, I only played STO a while but still I was able to make a nice char, so what happened in here? We need lots more options for character customization. The sliders barely move anything so most chars look the same, it's a real turn off for me and I'm sure for many others too.

reiwulf

Just to add something more, many of the character model problems would be fixed with more/better sliders.
If there was a slider for eye rotation, another for eyebrow rotation (so they don't always look angry) and the mouth height slider actually had the option to have a too high mough (not it just goes from ridiculously low to normally low). Just with these problems characters would look a ton better, the hair still look like from a 10 year old game, but at least it's something.
Would it be too hard to add new sliders and improve existing ones?

kiralyn

Aion and TERA had more funding. They started (I believe) as monthly-fee games, and so had more resources to pump into everything. F2p games don't have that kind of budget.


(That said, I think NW looks great - well, except for the low # of armor & costume models. But, then, I've always been confused by the many "man, that looks terrible" threads people have posted about **** near every game over the past few years.)

reiwulf

For what I've read, I think many people say the character models are ugly, I've seen many topics about it. Elfs have weird alien eyes, and everyone looks like they're constantly angry about something. and mouths go too low XD

sockmunkey

I agree, we could do with more sliders. Faces can stand to have a few more options. But im actually a fan of the bodies. The proportions seem far more realistic then most other games. Men are not just giant torsos on tiny legs. And women actually look right. They can actually have hips and a bust that doesnt resemble a set of oversized water baloons stuck to the chest of a skinny pre-teen boy. Women actually look more natural, then the normal super streeched skinny giraffes in other games.

It cam use improvement. But its a good start

goddessunique

Simple fix would be to copy CO extensive customization(except wings, mech armor, monster/animal skins) this will open the game up seriously. Spending 45 minutes customizing your character is so much fun, so many options is always a plus imo.

reiwulf

The bodies are fine, I lke the more realistic proportions, but faces do need some love, I don't think that addind a few sliders and improving some existing ones it too much work, specially if most of these can be changed in the costume editor in the foundry, it's just not there for character customization.

bropine

sockmunkey wrote: »

I agree, we could do with more sliders. Faces can stand to have a few more options. But im actually a fan of the bodies. The proportions seem far more realistic then most other games. Men are not just giant torsos on tiny legs. And women actually look right. They can actually have hips and a bust that doesnt resemble a set of oversized water baloons stuck to the chest of a skinny pre-teen boy. Women actually look more natural, then the normal super streeched skinny giraffes in other games.

It cam use improvement. But its a good start

Agree with this. I have many gripes about NW, but character models ain't one of them. And the character animation in this game is actually one of the best of any MMO.

With that said, there are some "dealbreaker" problems that are making me question right now if I will continue to play NW anymore. Will decide that after the Feywild thing comes out.

reiwulf

I guess everyone has their own priorities for a game, to me how my char looks is on of the more important ones, because I'm going to be staring at this character for all my game time.

echokazul

I really wish the male characters didn't look so constipated all the time. I really wanted to make a character who's a happy-go-lucky, friendly guy, and all I could pretty much get was somebody who looked like they wanted to eat babies.

I understand we're building warriors, and they should look tough, but with a site so heavy on RP factors, we should really be able to figure out personalities other then Stabby McMuderface.

kiralyn

reiwulf wrote: »

I guess everyone has their own priorities for a game, to me how my char looks is on of the more important ones, because I'm going to be staring at this character for all my game time.

I love customizing great looking characters - it's one of the things I love about the Elder Scrolls games (especially with tons of character mods added); it's also why I ended up buying so many character slots in City of Heroes. But except for some minor issues with the Elven faces, I've not had a problem with this game. Sure, a few more sliders would be nice (Star Trek has a handful more, for instance), but the system's quite good as it is. IMO, of course.

reiwulf

I completely agree echoazul, I wanted to make a somewhat friendly looking character, more innocent looking. It's not possible at the moment.
As I said, the sliders are there, in the costume editor for the foundry, I really don't think it's hard to implement it to character creation.

msrebel1972

echokazul wrote: »

we should really be able to figure out personalities other then Stabby McMuderface.

I'm sorry, but this line actually made me laugh out loud. Thanks for it!

kantazo1

My dwarf looks like someone sat on him and squeezed him to the bare minimum. LOL

beckylunatic

My half-elf DC looks unintentionally like Liv Tyler with violet eyes. She's quite a beauty.
My human GWF is ruggedly handsome and ripped, in his battered way. He's based on a manga character, but I got as good a likeness as I could with some limitations.
My wood elf TR is a strikingly pretty man. I spent a long time getting him just right... and I reduced the size of his eyes a lot because of that whole "uncanny valley" effect of elves looking so catlike with the huge eyes and all.

I think a lot of the defaults aren't very nice, and there could be more choices overall, but if you spend some time with it you can get quite a good look.

xabersedge

First thread I have seen about character models honestly, I think they look great. Game is stunning on my machine. Personally I really like the animations as well. If you wanna see it done wrong, look at dragon's prophet. Looks great for a distance but in close, the models are horribly proportioned (partially because of customizations) and the animations look like stop motion. Aside from lack of armor fashion, I would say the game is a treat.

fantasycharacter

goddessunique wrote: »

Simple fix would be to copy CO extensive customization(except wings, mech armor, monster/animal skins) this will open the game up seriously. Spending 45 minutes customizing your character is so much fun, so many options is always a plus imo.

I wish we could design our characters with a toned down CO character creator.

I would love to make a plump cleric in friar robes or a witch doctor.
I'd love to have a tribal GWF, maybe just in a loincloth like Conan!
I'd love to have a rogue that doesn't wear a dress, or look like a clown.
I'd love to have a GF in samurai Kara-tur like armor.
I'd love to have many styles of wizard that pop into my head, from the scantilly clad sorceress, to the fully robed with staff Raistlin Majere.


Even if the creator just allowed us to mix and match from what we have purchased/unlocked, I think we'd start to see a lot more diversity, which was part of the fun of PnP DnD.

reiwulf

I can make somewhat handsome humans, the elves look horrible with their alien cat eyes, but I have yet to be able to make agood looking half elf.

noroblad

Proportions are off. Eyes too big, positions not quite right in many cases, hair clips into body or clothing (and in many cases is entirely removed if you wear a helm, my dwarf is clean shaven in a helm but has a big beard without!) and the animations (facial expressions) look like b-movie actors in a zombie flic (worried, mad, and confused being the 3 expressions we get). Arms and legs tend to be way too long as well. But they did a pretty good job on the HAMSTER.

whoregut

I play Tera, so forgive me for being spoiled in the creativity, sliders and armor graphics.

NW has horrible sliders. The affected amount is negligible. It's almost not worth tweaking. The faces.....terrible. Why do most of the female faces look like they a bugged eye tweaker? It's so bad that I am a little annoy with myself, and PW, because I bought a Sellsword buddy and thought it was a Half Orc. I did some research, not enough, to see what it looked like before buying it.

This is the first time I have played a game where I think it's better to cover up the fugly character models. Sad really, because the armor isn't that great. I look like EVERYONE else. It's annoying. They only way, and this goes against what I just said, it seems to make yourself different is to take gear off. My rogue doesn't look like all the other rogues, only because she isn't wearing a shirt and pants. She is wearing everything else. Wish I could just hide the skins like with the helm. For a game that is based around the creativity of Dungeons and Dragons, it isn't very creative in the characters model area. ""For D&D players by D&D players" I can't see a true D&D player being okay with this lackluster character creation.

Before I end my rant, I would like to point something out. A few comments where made about funding. I would like to out "Dragon Prophet." It's a below average game, way below. However, the sliders for that game are great. For a game that is based around being free to play, the sliders are nothing short of godly.

On a darker note, but true. We are stuck with this poor character creation. It would cost to much money and time to redo the system. On top of that the people that already have a character made would throw a fit about a new system and want a free character model redesign.

kiralyn

*****gut wrote: »

I play Tera, so forgive me for being spoiled in the creativity, sliders and armor graphics.

NW has horrible sliders. The affected amount is negligible. It's almost not worth tweaking. The faces.....terrible. Why do most of the female faces look like they a bugged eye tweaker?

Hmm. Just ran through all my screenshots, and I'm just not seeing it. Except for some of the pure elves (I really need to throw some AD at my rogue to do some fixes), everything looks fine.


And yes, I've played TERA, too. And plenty of other games, many that have less customization than this game.

echokazul

I actually think the females look pretty good. It's the grumpy males that get to me. Oh, and the hair. We definitely need more hairstyles, most of the ones we have now kinda suck.

I'm almost hesitant to suggest this, but perhaps that face changer in Neverwinter could provide more customization options then the character creation defaults?

whoregut

I am not seeing it. The characters all look way to similar to each other. It's like their are two player model bases for each sex. Dragon Prophet has better sliders. The only really difference I have noticed is the adding of age to the face.

sockmunkey

*****gut wrote: »

I am not seeing it. The characters all look way to similar to each other. It's like their are two player model bases for each sex. Dragon Prophet has better sliders. The only really difference I have noticed is the adding of age to the face.

Yea, just not seeing it. admittedly NW characters are slightly stylized. But I actually think this help keep it out of the uncanny valley without having it look cartoonish.

Dragon prophet, the characters just look like plastic dolls.



I dont see it as better or an improvement.

whoregut

They do look plastic, BUT the sliders for them have a greater effect then the ones for NW.
https://forums.station.sony.com/dragonsprophet/index.php?threads/unique-costume-looks.4807/

chihuab

aion has better customization I agree. Actually the only reason I'm using human as oppose to other races is simply because of the look. Other races look horrendous.

sockmunkey

chihuab wrote: »

aion has better customization I agree. Actually the only reason I'm using human as oppose to other races is simply because of the look. Other races look horrendous.

Honestly, it looks nearly identical to Dragons prophet. More of the same super skinny pale barbie doll bimbos. I expect, if you didnt know the games, you would be hard pressed to tell one from the other.

jorifice1

My trick with this game is to take their "Defects" and just run with them. accentuate and exaggerate. It often ends up being surprisingly effective. My Dark Elf looks positively inhuman. There is no way he passes for a pretty person. He is an alien being and that's that. The deliberately odd proportions make many of the standard Rouge stances and moves slightly different and (in my opinion) more interesting. My Tiefling CW has a face only a mother goat could love. Be you can definitely pick him out of a crowd. He has this undeniable world-weary look that is only accentuated by his gangly out of proportion body with a pronounced pot belly, despite his stick-figure arms and legs. And my new Dwarf TR, Epic Beard The Pirate, has about as large and bulky body that is allowable for a Dwarf. I don't plan to take him into endgame or PVP (other than the once for the PVP Domination mission at level 13) so I am free to experiment. I am going heavy as possible on Str. and Con. and basically ignoring Stealth, turning him into more of a Fighter/Thief and he LOOKS the part, the animations seeming to project more force, just do to the thickness of his limbs.

voodoo12

perfect world and forsaken world..part of this ftp stable..there characters look great ?

kiralyn

voodoo12 wrote: »

perfect world and forsaken world..part of this ftp stable..there characters look great ?

Totally different developers. PWE may be hosting NWO, but it was made by Cryptic.

(Also, Eastern f2p games tend to go overboard on the Sexy Babe characters. Cryptic is a US dev.)

zebular

. . . . . I personally think these models are some of the best I have seen, but of course my tastes are subjective just like everyone else's opinions. Yeah, the default models aren't awesome but once customized, I really enjoy them. The only things I find lacking are many of the FR lore-specific appearance choices for some of the races.

A few off the top of my head that drive me batty:
- Human Males: Why cannot we have long beards like dwarves have?
- Drow: They allow the rarest drow hair color of them all, black! Yet, we're missing blue and green eyes and yellow-tinted hair as well as purple and blue under-toned obsidian skin.
- Height: Height choices are too restrictive within the races, the only way to really change your height is the leg slider and that isn't much.
- Big Wave: Why can't we have this hair style that so many NPCs have and that we can put on our female NPCs in the Foundry? Female hair-styles are too void of proper long hair styles.

. . . . . Aside from these cosmetic lackings, I find the art of the models on-par, if not better than what I would imagine animated Dungeons & Dragons to be like in an MMO.


((Mod Note: Let's stay on topic, discussing other MMOs is not allowed in the on-topic forums and if it continues, this thread will be cleansed))