However maybe I should wait to see if they nerf the <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> out of my build to equip it as I really only have interest in GWF for PvP.
Oh, they are totally not nerfing the <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> out of your build, do not worry. LEEROY JENKINS has the right idea, find out how the changes affect him and adapt accordingly. And I see that you know GWF aren't super good for dungeon parties, hahahaha. Think they should include that in the create character descriptions, "Specializes in fighting other adventurers."
See that? That's what real winners say. And that's why I ask him to PvE parties even though I don't think his class is effective for PvE, in general.
Agreed, but leeroy is the absolute best case scenario when inviting a GWF, most will fall short of that hehe. And yes he will most certainly continue to rock face.
Guild Master of <Enemy Team>
We are definitely dominating, and we are always about to win.
Nerfing the Slam? But it already does zero damage, what could they ever nerf?. Nice animation, some side effects such as increasing your power for all the duration of the spell. Errr well no, this is what the tooltip says, hence it is wrong and deceptive, it's not at all the duration of the Slam, your power is increased for a mere four seconds. And the counter starts at the beginning of the Slam animation. So, maybe one whole second for you to find some foe and hit it.
Slam is a daily. The AOE dailies of the other classes just clean out everything. Poof, a forest of blue crystals and all the foes in sight are gone. Slam? Nothing, the foes are not killed, not prones, not slowed down, not debuffed.
Agreed, but leeroy is the absolute best case scenario when inviting a GWF, most will fall short of that hehe. And yes he will most certainly continue to rock face.
I dont agree when I am topping dps score in a Destroyer build with 1500 lifesteal. The things you can pull off with 10% life steal is beyond any extra deflection/defense you get from Sent tree. My buddy who plays a 14k GS GF conqueror, stopped playing it and got his GWF to 60 after seeing what we can do. Of course you can stack LS on Sent too, but then you will be lacking even more in dps with a tree that only gives you defensive bonuses. The day the content get harder where extra mitigation is a must, I might consider going back to Sent, and only if they increase Sent threat by another 50%.
Nerfing the Slam? But it already does zero damage, what could they ever nerf?. Nice animation, some side effects such as increasing your power for all the duration of the spell. Errr well no, this is what the tooltip says, hence it is wrong and deceptive, it's not at all the duration of the Slam, your power is increased for a mere four seconds. And the counter starts at the beginning of the Slam animation. So, maybe one whole second for you to find some foe and hit it.
Slam is a daily. The AOE dailies of the other classes just clean out everything. Poof, a forest of blue crystals and all the foes in sight are gone. Slam? Nothing, the foes are not killed, not prones, not slowed down, not debuffed.
Do you even play GWF Slam is the most powerfull DoT AoE daily this game has currently
Do you even play GWF Slam is the most powerfull DoT AoE daily this game has currently
I gotta say this is the wrong direction to take... GWF are already worthless (almost) in PVE... So this will just hurt dps more..
Looks like they nerfed the +deflect the OP sent build gives, this will even out PVP some... although since TRs got a nerf maybe itll still be pretty OP...
They really need to tweak the Sent tree feats..
The last Feat should be changed from: Increases the effectiveness of your Defense stat by 20% and causes Restoring Strike to Heal an additional 50% over 3 seconds.
To: Increases the effectiveness of your Defense stat by 20% and your attacks generate 20% more threat.
This removes a LITTLE of the OP PvP regen from restoring strike and adds more viability in PVE as an off tank...
I gotta say this is the wrong direction to take... GWF are already worthless (almost) in PVE... So this will just hurt dps more..
Looks like they nerfed the +deflect the OP sent build gives, this will even out PVP some... although since TRs got a nerf maybe itll still be pretty OP...
They really need to tweak the Sent tree feats..
The last Feat should be changed from: Increases the effectiveness of your Defense stat by 20% and causes Restoring Strike to Heal an additional 50% over 3 seconds.
To: Increases the effectiveness of your Defense stat by 20% and your attacks generate 20% more threat.
This removes a LITTLE of the OP PvP regen from restoring strike and adds more viability in PVE as an off tank...
Just my idea..
[/START BROKEN RECORD]
- GWF are not worthless in PvE
- It is the content mechanics that needs to be fixed, not the classes.
- Sent tree is not OP in PvP and definitely not PvE. It's the freaking Tenebs that creates a ridiculous synergy between a defensive spec and a burst damage enchant. Imagine another type of Enchant that grants a 10% DR buff for 6seconds with a 20sec cooldown. And that enchant can stack with other similar enchants and all proccing at the same time. Every TR/CW and their mother will be slotting 7 greaters of this enchant.
- GWFs are not off-tanks, they are 100% tanks, in any SPEC too, matching the survivability of GFs if not more and generating about the same Threat minus the force taunts.
- Yes the change to Slam is an overall dps loss, but the 15% party mitigation will come in handy as an extra utility for the majority of the player base that aren't farming CN. If your group is good enough that it doesn't need that 15% mitigation, then it is a good chance they are only taking your GWF out of respect, not because of your Slam damage, and your slot can easily be replaced by another CW/TR/DC and even a GF if not on a speed run, whether your Slam is doing 100% damage or 40% damage. [/BROKEN RECORD].
CWs Renegade got nerfed. Wasnt the end of CWs (to be fair the Slam damage nerf is more significant).
DCs overnight got their MAIN Encounter gutted in half. Wasn't the end of DCs.
TRs getting their Stealth specs nerfed. Not going to be the end of TRs either.
I cant believe all this hysteria about ONE daily. If that ONE daily is the main contributor to this class' effectiveness, then it was DEFINITELY overpowered, OR at the very least all the other Dailies are extremely underpowered. In that case you need to focus your energy on bring the other dailies up to par. Why is it OK to have just ONE daily that is good, and 4 others that are useless? Doesn't make more sense to ask for all the dailies to be equally effective under different circumstances?
Thanks for the shout outs bootjoos and cribstaxxx, you are both being too kind. The sentiment is greatly appreciated. :cool:
We gotta see what the final hold out on the adjustment to Slam is. I do feel the 60% cut in damage is a bit much, however if they balanced that by making it hit all targets with the changes they made... That would be too my liking a great deal.
Of course you can stack LS on Sent too, but then you will be lacking even more in dps with a tree that only gives you defensive bonuses. The day the content get harder where extra mitigation is a must, I might consider going back to Sent, and only if they increase Sent threat by another 50%.
The Sentinel tree will not dominate DPS like the Destroyer tree can/does. However I disagree that DPS is all that matters in PvE... But we can agree to disagree, no biggie there mi amigo. I just enjoy the role of the off-tank a great deal, and my playstyle/ability lends itself extremely well to it. Now I'll admit my toon, LEEROY JENKINS(!!!), is pretty darn tricked out... But it's the ability of the player. If there is no GF, or even if there is, I'd be happy to go toe to toe with one. As I believe I can be just as valuable, or even more so, then most GFs I have seen play.
That's just my confidence in my build + play skill speaking there, that's all...
[/START BROKEN RECORD]
- GWF are not worthless in PvE
- It is the content mechanics that needs to be fixed, not the classes.
I agree that the content mechanics needs to be fixed, but sadly the the ability to instant-kill masses of mobs by pushing them off cliffs means that an AOE DPS class such as the GWF is basically not needed.
The emerging standard in /Zone seems to be DC TR 3CW nowadays
I agree that the content mechanics needs to be fixed, but sadly the the ability to instant-kill masses of mobs by pushing them off cliffs means that an AOE DPS class such as the GWF is basically not needed.
The emerging standard in /Zone seems to be DC TR 3CW nowadays
This...
Im not saying "ideally" they cant be useful... When I put groups together on my GF I wouldnt mind a GWF because it meant less chance of wipe... BUT that doesnt change the fact that 2 TR or 2 CW would typically make the run faster than 1 of each class...
Im not saying they CANT be good, I have ONLY seen 1 good GWF but he was also very geared and still couldnt out dps me as a GF..
They need to fix the mechanics of the entire game AND yes GWF Sent IS OP in pvp...
0
austing2013Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 7Arc User
edited August 2013
Cryptic's idea of class balance:
Step 1. Allow CW's to exploit their asses off with no fix in sight
Step 2. Balance combat so that fighters(particularly GWF) are literally a detriment to group efficiency
Step 3. Nerf the "red headed stepchild" least useful PVE class even further into oblivion
Step 1. Allow CW's to exploit their asses off with no fix in sight
LOL you make it seem like there is a conspiracy between CW Players and Cryptic. CWs aren't exploiting anything the content is not specifically begging for.
Even pushing Mobs off the ledge, to me is not exploiting anything. In fact I think it should always be a tactical option. The problem rises when groups on speed runs sprint from one ledge to another and make the entire run getting to the final boss trivial.
The REAL issue is that Cryptic is not giving ANY incentive to fight Mobs. I mean NOTHING. In fact it is the complete opposite. It is actually a waste of time, a drain on resources, and downright exhausting to do an entire run fighting every trash on the way. So people are constantly looking for shortcuts at every opportunity.
Here is my idea:
1) Make ALL bosses (including mini bosses) Tougher.
2) Change the mechanics of certain Bosses (CN Draco for example so that Bugging Red Wizards is not THE strategy to beat it)
3) Have trash leading to every boss randomly drop something of value. At the very least, triple/quadruple enchant drops.
4) Make it so that EVERY trash mob "Killed" along the way to the next boss, reduces the toughness of said Boss. So if all the mobs leading to the next boss die, then the boss will be at its weakest condition. (Punting mobs off ledges, should not count as a "death" for that mob)
- This serves quite a few things. First it will give your average/below geared/skilled group a fighting chance against some of these bosses. The more trash they kill, the easier the boss fight. Second, It will still provide a challenge for the experienced groups and those looking for shortcuts and speed runs, by making the boss a bit more challenging if they skip/toss much of the trash. Third, burning down trash will take priority over pushing off ledges, while still allowing for such tactics to be used. And finally, some extra rewards through the random trash drops to give the sense/illusion that it is worth your time.
Now lets look at what the current GWF can contribute to a party
Inferior single target dps
Inferior survivability
Inferior control
Arguably superior aoe dps
Hahahahahaha...(choking, coughing, falling off chair, snorting like a pig laughing)
I've not read these forums for atleast a week so missed all the bull**** i've been laughing my <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> off now.
I so wish for all of the doubters about destro gwf that play them exceptionally well could see some videos for proof of how opposite you think of them. I actually don't like hearing my friends that play GF and sometimes other classes say that GWF are op when it comes to dps and survival when I play my destro gwf. I told them they were fine before the June balance patch and didn't need a dps buff. I was looking forward to some utility buffs infact, but it didn't happen. They know that I've been playing gwf only since April and that I chose it back then because it was the least preferred class that my guild wanted to go with on the voting poll. I don't choose op classes because it gives me a challenge of proving people wrong.
I have an instigator gwf also as a 60 which is actually collecting dust. It's fun too, but with what destro can do that a lot of people are blind or haven't seen yet is unbelievably exciting. I also have a sentinel gwf, but guess what (not for pvp, definitely not a tene user, strictly for pve experimenting only) My destro is 13.5+ still. I have 2 sets of gear..maxable dps tanking gear with more lifesteal to reach around 1250-1500 as a backup for tough encounters. I lose minimum dps, but still have the highest threat with highest dps. The other is my max dps with slight lifesteal stats..3-5% this is fine, but have to avoid the most hurtful circles sometimes. Similar gear to what Meegtoast has for BiS, but with my own choice that has the same rewards.
I do not have the feat where you get 25% more power when using slam..I have used it before and it lasts about 6 secs not the full slam duration so I respecced out of it. If it did last fully then I guess it would be OP and I don't see any problem if Slam gets toned down. It's not affecting me when I don't have it feated in Destro. Control and utility is really the only thing that gwf are inferior atm with. Single target dps shouldn't be nearly same as the TR..that's their forte. I can optimise my single target dps with destro and gear better than average of a tr. Possibly 66%-75% so that's nothing to be ashamed of.
Anyway seeing all these funny threads you've made my day. I needed a good laugh thanks all. You've also made it better for me as I don't give up on my class even if others that play it give up. I don't mind less gwf that aren't playing so they can go and cry over some other game or another class they want to play in this game that isn't "epeen" enough for them.
/thanks for the healthy laughter
P.s would like the unstoppable bug fixed though..still have it sometimes since April, but just have to be more cautious when it happens.
A GWF survivability is inferior to a gf.. I think you take for granted too much the buffs and help you are getting from others in your party... As it is.. In terms of survivability without the help of others GF>GWF and I don't know how u can argue against that..
And to be honest I'm starting to think that you may even be a TR trolling in order to get the GWF nerfed....
Either that or your endgame experience has not reached the top teir yet.. Cause at the top this is a massive nerf... Probably to the point of bringing the GWF below the point where it got buffed..
When you are running with parties that know what they are doing.. This change provides nothing to a party at all
You are wrong about the survival. Though thanks for the laugh.
Now the next funny thing you said you think Copti is a trolling TR lmao. He's in my guild with his gwf 60 I'd say has been 60 for around a month now with that. I haven't grouped with his gwf, but have grouped on a few occasions in the past with his other awesome 60 CW. He's not lying about it, but if you think so then whatever.
You think his endgame experience hasn't reached top tier yet lol? Umm what's the link for his signature? Is that not Top tier enough proof? Anyway even if he didn't have that link don't assume he's a troll or even a rogue. As far as I'm aware he only has a gwf, cw and new 60 cleric as of late.
Good defensive posts Haneekak I've missed out on the weekly bull****.
You are wrong about the survival. Though thanks for the laugh.
Now the next funny thing you said you think Copti is a trolling TR lmao. He's in my guild with his gwf 60 I'd say has been 60 for around a month now with that. I haven't grouped with his gwf, but have grouped on a few occasions in the past with his other awesome 60 CW. He's not lying about it, but if you think so then whatever.
You think his endgame experience hasn't reached top tier yet lol? Umm what's the link for his signature? Is that not Top tier enough proof? Anyway even if he didn't have that link don't assume he's a troll or even a rogue. As far as I'm aware he only has a gwf, cw and new 60 cleric as of late.
Good defensive posts Haneekak I've missed out on the weekly bull****.
Glad to see you back in the loop. See you online.
Dont worry, much of this hysteria will blow over with the new content, and I guarantee you many of these people will still be playing their GWFs.
templarknight91Member, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited August 2013
Oh, you people whining about Slam being the ONLY AoE Daily Power, lol you must be the GWFs that give us good GWFs a bad rep
Hint:Avalanche of Steel which is WAY better than Slam. (Please don't nerf it) Go ahead argue with me on how you think it's not better than Slam.
As for if you're using Slam with Sent Build in PvE and are complaining about the loss of damage? Face it Sent GWFs can't even fall under a dps build. (a DC can do more dmg than a Sent specced) and no I'm not talking about PvP (which lost all it's fun when last class Updates came out)
Side note, I'm happy Crescendo is getting CC immunity finally.
I am a good player, so I still will be invited by my friends who know what I am capable of. I can dance.
Slam was so good, I could sprint in, hit Slam, draw all mobs around me, hit No so Fast, a few horizontal slashes, HP goes low, Determination full, hit Tab/Unstoppable, and whack at them. While party catches up, all mobs are below 50 % health, weaker trash is dead. Unstoppable could be almost chained, too.
Sure, if there are cliffs, all this does not worth much. But it was hell of a fun to play. Now I will be more reliant on other parry members.
PS. Actually, the new slow mechanics of Slam is another hidden nerf. Now they close on me slower, makes herding slower, and my encounter aoe is hurt.
Whatever we deny or embrace, we belong togheter./ Pat Benatar
Comments
I already did FULL damage and I'm also throwing out dps.
Your fire and forget? 12 seconds. My fire and damage/prone/interrupt/immune is 3 seconds.
You also miss the cap factor..avalanche has none. 20 mobs? 10k * 20= 200k in the first 3 seconds...
Slam? yeah 5 targets 12 seconds for full effect.
I get the 25% power increase for Destroyer, just don't think it actually does much considering power is our worst stat.
Ok...it might be 4 seconds....
See that? That's what real winners say. And that's why I ask him to PvE parties even though I don't think his class is effective for PvE, in general.
Agreed, but leeroy is the absolute best case scenario when inviting a GWF, most will fall short of that hehe. And yes he will most certainly continue to rock face.
We are definitely dominating, and we are always about to win.
Slam is a daily. The AOE dailies of the other classes just clean out everything. Poof, a forest of blue crystals and all the foes in sight are gone. Slam? Nothing, the foes are not killed, not prones, not slowed down, not debuffed.
I dont agree when I am topping dps score in a Destroyer build with 1500 lifesteal. The things you can pull off with 10% life steal is beyond any extra deflection/defense you get from Sent tree. My buddy who plays a 14k GS GF conqueror, stopped playing it and got his GWF to 60 after seeing what we can do. Of course you can stack LS on Sent too, but then you will be lacking even more in dps with a tree that only gives you defensive bonuses. The day the content get harder where extra mitigation is a must, I might consider going back to Sent, and only if they increase Sent threat by another 50%.
Do you even play GWF Slam is the most powerfull DoT AoE daily this game has currently
I gotta say this is the wrong direction to take... GWF are already worthless (almost) in PVE... So this will just hurt dps more..
Looks like they nerfed the +deflect the OP sent build gives, this will even out PVP some... although since TRs got a nerf maybe itll still be pretty OP...
They really need to tweak the Sent tree feats..
The last Feat should be changed from: Increases the effectiveness of your Defense stat by 20% and causes Restoring Strike to Heal an additional 50% over 3 seconds.
To: Increases the effectiveness of your Defense stat by 20% and your attacks generate 20% more threat.
This removes a LITTLE of the OP PvP regen from restoring strike and adds more viability in PVE as an off tank...
Just my idea..
[/START BROKEN RECORD]
- GWF are not worthless in PvE
- It is the content mechanics that needs to be fixed, not the classes.
- Sent tree is not OP in PvP and definitely not PvE. It's the freaking Tenebs that creates a ridiculous synergy between a defensive spec and a burst damage enchant. Imagine another type of Enchant that grants a 10% DR buff for 6seconds with a 20sec cooldown. And that enchant can stack with other similar enchants and all proccing at the same time. Every TR/CW and their mother will be slotting 7 greaters of this enchant.
- GWFs are not off-tanks, they are 100% tanks, in any SPEC too, matching the survivability of GFs if not more and generating about the same Threat minus the force taunts.
- Yes the change to Slam is an overall dps loss, but the 15% party mitigation will come in handy as an extra utility for the majority of the player base that aren't farming CN. If your group is good enough that it doesn't need that 15% mitigation, then it is a good chance they are only taking your GWF out of respect, not because of your Slam damage, and your slot can easily be replaced by another CW/TR/DC and even a GF if not on a speed run, whether your Slam is doing 100% damage or 40% damage. [/BROKEN RECORD].
CWs Renegade got nerfed. Wasnt the end of CWs (to be fair the Slam damage nerf is more significant).
DCs overnight got their MAIN Encounter gutted in half. Wasn't the end of DCs.
TRs getting their Stealth specs nerfed. Not going to be the end of TRs either.
I cant believe all this hysteria about ONE daily. If that ONE daily is the main contributor to this class' effectiveness, then it was DEFINITELY overpowered, OR at the very least all the other Dailies are extremely underpowered. In that case you need to focus your energy on bring the other dailies up to par. Why is it OK to have just ONE daily that is good, and 4 others that are useless? Doesn't make more sense to ask for all the dailies to be equally effective under different circumstances?
We gotta see what the final hold out on the adjustment to Slam is. I do feel the 60% cut in damage is a bit much, however if they balanced that by making it hit all targets with the changes they made... That would be too my liking a great deal.
I've currently have 9.9% Lifesteal, and I am loving it myself also.
The Sentinel tree will not dominate DPS like the Destroyer tree can/does. However I disagree that DPS is all that matters in PvE... But we can agree to disagree, no biggie there mi amigo. I just enjoy the role of the off-tank a great deal, and my playstyle/ability lends itself extremely well to it. Now I'll admit my toon, LEEROY JENKINS(!!!), is pretty darn tricked out... But it's the ability of the player. If there is no GF, or even if there is, I'd be happy to go toe to toe with one. As I believe I can be just as valuable, or even more so, then most GFs I have seen play.
That's just my confidence in my build + play skill speaking there, that's all...
I agree that the content mechanics needs to be fixed, but sadly the the ability to instant-kill masses of mobs by pushing them off cliffs means that an AOE DPS class such as the GWF is basically not needed.
The emerging standard in /Zone seems to be DC TR 3CW nowadays
This...
Im not saying "ideally" they cant be useful... When I put groups together on my GF I wouldnt mind a GWF because it meant less chance of wipe... BUT that doesnt change the fact that 2 TR or 2 CW would typically make the run faster than 1 of each class...
Im not saying they CANT be good, I have ONLY seen 1 good GWF but he was also very geared and still couldnt out dps me as a GF..
They need to fix the mechanics of the entire game AND yes GWF Sent IS OP in pvp...
Step 1. Allow CW's to exploit their asses off with no fix in sight
Step 2. Balance combat so that fighters(particularly GWF) are literally a detriment to group efficiency
Step 3. Nerf the "red headed stepchild" least useful PVE class even further into oblivion
Step 4. ???
Step 5. Profit
LOL you make it seem like there is a conspiracy between CW Players and Cryptic. CWs aren't exploiting anything the content is not specifically begging for.
Even pushing Mobs off the ledge, to me is not exploiting anything. In fact I think it should always be a tactical option. The problem rises when groups on speed runs sprint from one ledge to another and make the entire run getting to the final boss trivial.
The REAL issue is that Cryptic is not giving ANY incentive to fight Mobs. I mean NOTHING. In fact it is the complete opposite. It is actually a waste of time, a drain on resources, and downright exhausting to do an entire run fighting every trash on the way. So people are constantly looking for shortcuts at every opportunity.
Here is my idea:
1) Make ALL bosses (including mini bosses) Tougher.
2) Change the mechanics of certain Bosses (CN Draco for example so that Bugging Red Wizards is not THE strategy to beat it)
3) Have trash leading to every boss randomly drop something of value. At the very least, triple/quadruple enchant drops.
4) Make it so that EVERY trash mob "Killed" along the way to the next boss, reduces the toughness of said Boss. So if all the mobs leading to the next boss die, then the boss will be at its weakest condition. (Punting mobs off ledges, should not count as a "death" for that mob)
- This serves quite a few things. First it will give your average/below geared/skilled group a fighting chance against some of these bosses. The more trash they kill, the easier the boss fight. Second, It will still provide a challenge for the experienced groups and those looking for shortcuts and speed runs, by making the boss a bit more challenging if they skip/toss much of the trash. Third, burning down trash will take priority over pushing off ledges, while still allowing for such tactics to be used. And finally, some extra rewards through the random trash drops to give the sense/illusion that it is worth your time.
You are wrong about the survival. Though thanks for the laugh.
Now the next funny thing you said you think Copti is a trolling TR lmao. He's in my guild with his gwf 60 I'd say has been 60 for around a month now with that. I haven't grouped with his gwf, but have grouped on a few occasions in the past with his other awesome 60 CW. He's not lying about it, but if you think so then whatever.
You think his endgame experience hasn't reached top tier yet lol? Umm what's the link for his signature? Is that not Top tier enough proof? Anyway even if he didn't have that link don't assume he's a troll or even a rogue. As far as I'm aware he only has a gwf, cw and new 60 cleric as of late.
Good defensive posts Haneekak I've missed out on the weekly bull****.
Glad to see you back in the loop. See you online.
Dont worry, much of this hysteria will blow over with the new content, and I guarantee you many of these people will still be playing their GWFs.
Hint:Avalanche of Steel which is WAY better than Slam. (Please don't nerf it) Go ahead argue with me on how you think it's not better than Slam.
As for if you're using Slam with Sent Build in PvE and are complaining about the loss of damage? Face it Sent GWFs can't even fall under a dps build. (a DC can do more dmg than a Sent specced) and no I'm not talking about PvP (which lost all it's fun when last class Updates came out)
Side note, I'm happy Crescendo is getting CC immunity finally.
^They really should
Slam was so good, I could sprint in, hit Slam, draw all mobs around me, hit No so Fast, a few horizontal slashes, HP goes low, Determination full, hit Tab/Unstoppable, and whack at them. While party catches up, all mobs are below 50 % health, weaker trash is dead. Unstoppable could be almost chained, too.
Sure, if there are cliffs, all this does not worth much. But it was hell of a fun to play. Now I will be more reliant on other parry members.
PS. Actually, the new slow mechanics of Slam is another hidden nerf. Now they close on me slower, makes herding slower, and my encounter aoe is hurt.