If they are willing and fools enough to part with their money then why not? Its not like this kind of practice is new to the business world.
This is the problem right here. People will pay for unfinished products. Until they stop paying for unfinished products, companies will continue to sell them unfinished products.
The fact that other companies do it too is part of the problem, and not part of any reasoning that would convince any sensible user to continue to be loyal. Other companies doing it doesnt make it OK, it simply means that the behavior being described is even more rampant.
This is the problem right here. People will pay for unfinished products. Until they stop paying for unfinished products, companies will continue to sell them unfinished products.
All MMOs are perpetually unfinished products. That is one of their features. If people stop paying for unfinished products, there will be no MMOs.
This is the problem right here. People will pay for unfinished products. Until they stop paying for unfinished products, companies will continue to sell them unfinished products.
The fact that other companies do it too is part of the problem, and not part of any reasoning that would convince any sensible user to continue to be loyal. Other companies doing it doesnt make it OK, it simply means that the behavior being described is even more rampant.
All MMOs are perpetually unfinished products. That is one of their features. If people stop paying for unfinished products, there will be no MMOs.
Welcome to the huge gray area. Its not a discussion of absolutes. "finished" as an absolute term is an irrelevant technicality that doesnt even belong in an MMO discussion. "finished" in MMOs is a relative term used to describe a state where huge problems dont exist that (should) require immediate attention.
Do you recognize the HUGE difference between an MMO where the content is relatively stable, and there are some maintenance level issues and low impact bugs that need to be sorted out -vs- an MMO where every dungeon is completely exploitable multiple ways, character abilities are bugged to the point where they dont work, and the economy gets plowed by dupers monthly?
Previous content should be in a maintenance state before developing/releasing new content. Thats what "finished" means in an MMO. This is not likely to happen unless people stop paying for "unfinished" products. The bean counters prioritize new release over fixing items that were already bought and paid for, or are part of the "free" environment, because new release = mo money coming in.
Nothing implying that the Moon Elf race is anything but exclusive to pack purchasers. It should have been the Sun Elves that were exclusive, as Sun Elves are, according to lore (both pre and post 4e) the most elitist and aloof of Elves/Eladrin, whereas Moon Elves are more common (and in fact, before 4e, they were the standard Elf PC race for the Forgotten Realms for 30 years).
IMHO, this is intentional. I think what they're doing is hedging their bets that long-time Forgotten Realms fans will be willing to pay to play what has historically been the standard Elf in the Forgotten Realms.
of course its intentional. PWE has made a long career of MMos designed specifially to wring as many dollars as they can out of players.
hell, look up the tale of ZT Online if you want to see what the average chinese MMO business would love to do to us if they could get away with it.
Do you recognize the HUGE difference between an MMO where the content is relatively stable, and there are some maintenance level issues and low impact bugs that need to be sorted out -vs- an MMO where every dungeon is completely exploitable multiple ways, character abilities are bugged to the point where they dont work, and the economy gets plowed by dupers monthly?
A MMO with relatively stable content, where maintenance and a few low impact bugs are all that remain, is a MMO in maintenance mode or close to being shut down.
This MMO is a new kid on the block, just barely out of the gate.
The problem is that there is no precedent for this. We now know that 1-2 months prior to getting a new race we'll usually get some sort of "Hero of the x" pack but we have no idea how or when Cryptic is going to add the new classes/paragon paths. We'll have to wait and see.
As for the "new class will be ready by the end of the year" thing it could be that they were referring to another new class or the "newest" of the "new" classes. It's much more likely that they're working on several at once, and Cryptic has always been very evasive when it came to this particular topic. The "hints" can mean a lot of things.
You there. New to the game? Feeling overwhelmed? Maybe you think getting to end-game is impossible for a casual player like yourself, or maybe you just need to be around a community that helps each other stay sane and competitive with the latest news, current trends, random chitchat and most of all LEGIT (that is, we try to keep things fair) gameplay. If you don't mind being around quirky people and the rare occasional drama (one of our prominent TR members is apparently a mafia godfather) join nw_legit_community at http://www.nwlegitcommunity.shivtr.com/forum_threads/2330542.
You are geared? Farm enchantments! Do the SAME boring places for ages until you have enough ad to make such a small difference to your character that you'll probably want to kill yourself.
You want to see a preview of the new planed Classes and Paths?
They are ALREADY IN THE GAME.
Go to the Chasm.
Get down to the Crystal Caverns (I think that is the name. It is one of the last areas of the Chasm.).
Find the Corrupted Adventurers.
They consist of:
1) A Great Weapons Fighter (in place well before the official release of the class)
2) A Duel Wielding Ranger
3) A heavily armoured Mace And Shield Battle Cleric
4) A Staff Mage
None of them seem to be complete, but they will give you a good outline as to what to expect.
'Wen considered the nature of time and understood that the universe is, instant by instant, recreated anew. Therefore, he understood, there is in truth no past, only a memory of the past. Blink your eyes, and the world you see next did not exist when you closed them. Therefore, he said, the only appropriate state of the mind is surprise. The only appropriate state of the heart is joy. The sky you see now, you have never seen before. The perfect moment is now. Be glad of it.' Terry Pratchet The Thief Of Time
A MMO with relatively stable content, where maintenance and a few low impact bugs are all that remain, is a MMO in maintenance mode or close to being shut down.
This MMO is a new kid on the block, just barely out of the gate.
Neither of these things is like the other.
Yes. because I'm sure world of warcraft regularly has to update pre-85 content just to be sure that Outland is still there.
Yes. because I'm sure world of warcraft regularly has to update pre-85 content just to be sure that Outland is still there.
Just taking a quick browse of the WoW Bug reports I did see they have a bug going on with their mail system that was caused by a newer patch. They have had an established mail system for years now and are having to go back and fix it.
So yes even established games do have to go back and fix bugs with older content because of the introduction of new content.
Yes. because I'm sure world of warcraft regularly has to update pre-85 content just to be sure that Outland is still there.
The last time I looked at the WoW website they were going through yet more class revisions for classes that have been out for a long, long time. So, yeah, active MMOs are always a WIP.
The MMO isn't me either, and that is the problem. From my point of view.
Well, you aren't the subject of interest to those focused on the MMO.
0
paladmethiusMember, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 71
edited July 2013
I am hugely disappointed that the major staples of Dungeons and dragons are not around. No paladin, no ranger...what the hell are we doing with two fighters? Just make fighter have two branches, heavy weapons and sword and board...
This forum set up is absolutely horrible, I cant even figure out how to get my knight of the feywild title.
Well, you aren't the subject of interest to those focused on the MMO.
I would think their interest would be to allow the player to identify with their character as much as possible. To allow the player to build their character in both experiences and abilities in order to give them a character they can identify with, and want to continue forward with. As it stands now, you get the same experience with whatever character you decide to make, no matter your race/class/deity...whatever. You can't feel unique no matter how hard you try.
This is what I mean by this mmo not being me. This mmo is everybody, and everybody is the same. It doesn't feel like Neverwinter, it feels like an ant colony.
0
paladmethiusMember, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 71
I would think their interest would be to allow the player to identify with their character as much as possible. To allow the player to build their character in both experiences and abilities in order to give them a character they can identify with, and want to continue forward with. As it stands now, you get the same experience with whatever character you decide to make, no matter your race/class/deity...whatever. You can't feel unique no matter how hard you try.
This is what I mean by this mmo not being me. This mmo is everybody, and everybody is the same. It doesn't feel like Neverwinter, it feels like an ant colony.
I believe the term you are looking for is "theme park" It is not a living large world in which every character has a unique story, its a theme park. You are on a ride seeing things that they wanted you to see, dressing the part for a play that applies at that moment. Wanna be a golden winged helmet holy avenger swinging paladin? No. You are the fighter and you wear fighter gear. Its on rails theme park with a cash shop for minor variations in the ride, such as colors and ease at which you advance.
This forum set up is absolutely horrible, I cant even figure out how to get my knight of the feywild title.
I would think their interest would be to allow the player to identify with their character as much as possible. To allow the player to build their character in both experiences and abilities in order to give them a character they can identify with, and want to continue forward with. As it stands now, you get the same experience with whatever character you decide to make, no matter your race/class/deity...whatever. You can't feel unique no matter how hard you try.
This is what I mean by this mmo not being me. This mmo is everybody, and everybody is the same. It doesn't feel like Neverwinter, it feels like an ant colony.
Well, my GF doesn't play at all like my CW, or DC, or TR, so that feeling isn't universal, though due to the number of options available they will seem much like other members of the same class. This isn't new to D&D though.
When I started playing pnp AD&D 1st Ed. the only difference the characters of most classes had was only what the player could imagine, as all except Magic-Users (due to differences of the spells in their books) were mechanically the same. Character identity wasn't supported by 'everyone is a special snowflake' mechanics. Character identity at that time wasn't a function of the game, but of the role-player.
The kind of complexity you are looking for in character design isn't really found in games of this simplicity, and I don't see how you could have expected to find it here unless you didn't research the game at all.
It would be present more in sand box games such as UO, Uncharted Waters, EVE Online, or Asheron's Call... and perhaps new offerings I don't know about, but the sand box MMO genre hasn't had much new to look forward to for awhile.
Perhaps you'd enjoy something along those lines more.
I believe the term you are looking for is "theme park" It is not a living large world in which every character has a unique story, its a theme park. You are on a ride seeing things that they wanted you to see, dressing the part for a play that applies at that moment. Wanna be a golden winged helmet holy avenger swinging paladin? No. You are the fighter and you wear fighter gear. Its on rails theme park with a cash shop for minor variations in the ride, such as colors and ease at which you advance.
It sure is on rails. They may as well have tracks that take you from one place to another. I suppose they do in a way, with the sparkling golden trail.
We're working on some very cool stuff while also squashing bugs, investigating reports about exploits, and continually balancing gameplay. Rest assured that we'll give you all the infos about new content as soon as we have details to share!
We're working on some very cool stuff while also squashing bugs, investigating reports about exploits, and continually balancing gameplay. Rest assured that we'll give you all the infos about new content as soon as we have details to share!
I'm looking forward to the new campaign system, to see exactly how that works out in play, in addition to seeing the new potentials offered by the new crafting skills.
there going to just keep loosing players lol.. Its so funny... alot of the player base is not playing the game atm.. We have been waiting for the next update which should have had a new class....... We want to play this **** game so bad but the devs keep doing <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> backwards... A D&D game should have alot of class's to choose from.. Most of us were pulled into this game because it is D&D...... I'm over here playing FireFall instead of playing this game.. You thats bad lol...
Well, this game will be DoA by the end of the year, so.... I guess they can wait that long to release the new class.
. . . . .The game has already arrived and is far from "dead," so I do not see how it could possibly be dead on arrival a year after it had already arrived. *the mage nods and winks*
there going to just keep loosing players lol.. Its so funny... alot of the player base is not playing the game atm.. We have been waiting for the next update which should have had a new class....... We want to play this **** game so bad but the devs keep doing <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> backwards... A D&D game should have alot of class's to choose from.. Most of us were pulled into this game because it is D&D...... I'm over here playing FireFall instead of playing this game.. You thats bad lol...
Lot sof classes eh? When I started playing D&D it had: Fighter, Wizard, Cleric, Thief... and that's it.
A world to defend
A city to protect
innocents to save
"Why?" They ask "they hate you"
We're heroes it's what we do.
*patiently waiting on Paragon City*
And Thief wasn't even in the original release.
We're getting new classes for free - that's also not D&D.
People were able to play the "new" class during beta, so we know at least one more class is actually in the works - just not polished enough, yet.
We've also been told we can earn new powers via the Campaign system - which may not be Paragon Paths, but might be fun in any case. We should get a Preview in a couple weeks.
Not much to QQ about.
Comments
This is the problem right here. People will pay for unfinished products. Until they stop paying for unfinished products, companies will continue to sell them unfinished products.
The fact that other companies do it too is part of the problem, and not part of any reasoning that would convince any sensible user to continue to be loyal. Other companies doing it doesnt make it OK, it simply means that the behavior being described is even more rampant.
All MMOs are perpetually unfinished products. That is one of their features. If people stop paying for unfinished products, there will be no MMOs.
Name one MMO that is "finished".
Neverwinter. I have played for less than 2 months and I'm "Finished"
You are not the MMO.
/10 char
Welcome to the huge gray area. Its not a discussion of absolutes. "finished" as an absolute term is an irrelevant technicality that doesnt even belong in an MMO discussion. "finished" in MMOs is a relative term used to describe a state where huge problems dont exist that (should) require immediate attention.
Do you recognize the HUGE difference between an MMO where the content is relatively stable, and there are some maintenance level issues and low impact bugs that need to be sorted out -vs- an MMO where every dungeon is completely exploitable multiple ways, character abilities are bugged to the point where they dont work, and the economy gets plowed by dupers monthly?
Previous content should be in a maintenance state before developing/releasing new content. Thats what "finished" means in an MMO. This is not likely to happen unless people stop paying for "unfinished" products. The bean counters prioritize new release over fixing items that were already bought and paid for, or are part of the "free" environment, because new release = mo money coming in.
of course its intentional. PWE has made a long career of MMos designed specifially to wring as many dollars as they can out of players.
hell, look up the tale of ZT Online if you want to see what the average chinese MMO business would love to do to us if they could get away with it.
They are paying for specific services or in-game items within the game.
A MMO with relatively stable content, where maintenance and a few low impact bugs are all that remain, is a MMO in maintenance mode or close to being shut down.
This MMO is a new kid on the block, just barely out of the gate.
Neither of these things is like the other.
As for the "new class will be ready by the end of the year" thing it could be that they were referring to another new class or the "newest" of the "new" classes. It's much more likely that they're working on several at once, and Cryptic has always been very evasive when it came to this particular topic. The "hints" can mean a lot of things.
The game is BORING.
You are geared? Farm enchantments! Do the SAME boring places for ages until you have enough ad to make such a small difference to your character that you'll probably want to kill yourself.
They are ALREADY IN THE GAME.
Go to the Chasm.
Get down to the Crystal Caverns (I think that is the name. It is one of the last areas of the Chasm.).
Find the Corrupted Adventurers.
They consist of:
1) A Great Weapons Fighter (in place well before the official release of the class)
2) A Duel Wielding Ranger
3) A heavily armoured Mace And Shield Battle Cleric
4) A Staff Mage
None of them seem to be complete, but they will give you a good outline as to what to expect.
'Wen considered the nature of time and understood that the universe is, instant by instant, recreated anew. Therefore, he understood, there is in truth no past, only a memory of the past. Blink your eyes, and the world you see next did not exist when you closed them. Therefore, he said, the only appropriate state of the mind is surprise. The only appropriate state of the heart is joy. The sky you see now, you have never seen before. The perfect moment is now. Be glad of it.' Terry Pratchet The Thief Of Time
The MMO isn't me either, and that is the problem. From my point of view.
Yes. because I'm sure world of warcraft regularly has to update pre-85 content just to be sure that Outland is still there.
Just taking a quick browse of the WoW Bug reports I did see they have a bug going on with their mail system that was caused by a newer patch. They have had an established mail system for years now and are having to go back and fix it.
So yes even established games do have to go back and fix bugs with older content because of the introduction of new content.
Well, you aren't the subject of interest to those focused on the MMO.
I would think their interest would be to allow the player to identify with their character as much as possible. To allow the player to build their character in both experiences and abilities in order to give them a character they can identify with, and want to continue forward with. As it stands now, you get the same experience with whatever character you decide to make, no matter your race/class/deity...whatever. You can't feel unique no matter how hard you try.
This is what I mean by this mmo not being me. This mmo is everybody, and everybody is the same. It doesn't feel like Neverwinter, it feels like an ant colony.
I believe the term you are looking for is "theme park" It is not a living large world in which every character has a unique story, its a theme park. You are on a ride seeing things that they wanted you to see, dressing the part for a play that applies at that moment. Wanna be a golden winged helmet holy avenger swinging paladin? No. You are the fighter and you wear fighter gear. Its on rails theme park with a cash shop for minor variations in the ride, such as colors and ease at which you advance.
Well, my GF doesn't play at all like my CW, or DC, or TR, so that feeling isn't universal, though due to the number of options available they will seem much like other members of the same class. This isn't new to D&D though.
When I started playing pnp AD&D 1st Ed. the only difference the characters of most classes had was only what the player could imagine, as all except Magic-Users (due to differences of the spells in their books) were mechanically the same. Character identity wasn't supported by 'everyone is a special snowflake' mechanics. Character identity at that time wasn't a function of the game, but of the role-player.
The kind of complexity you are looking for in character design isn't really found in games of this simplicity, and I don't see how you could have expected to find it here unless you didn't research the game at all.
It would be present more in sand box games such as UO, Uncharted Waters, EVE Online, or Asheron's Call... and perhaps new offerings I don't know about, but the sand box MMO genre hasn't had much new to look forward to for awhile.
Perhaps you'd enjoy something along those lines more.
We're working on some very cool stuff while also squashing bugs, investigating reports about exploits, and continually balancing gameplay. Rest assured that we'll give you all the infos about new content as soon as we have details to share!
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Lot sof classes eh? When I started playing D&D it had: Fighter, Wizard, Cleric, Thief... and that's it.
A city to protect
innocents to save
"Why?" They ask "they hate you"
We're heroes it's what we do.
*patiently waiting on Paragon City*
We're getting new classes for free - that's also not D&D.
People were able to play the "new" class during beta, so we know at least one more class is actually in the works - just not polished enough, yet.
We've also been told we can earn new powers via the Campaign system - which may not be Paragon Paths, but might be fun in any case. We should get a Preview in a couple weeks.
Not much to QQ about.