After reading the thread you posted I can see them saying things like...
"I can't promise they won't but I really don't expect them to and if they do I expect that it would be an uncommon or through the roof awesome class."
and
"Cryptic plans classes to be FREE. If this changes they will let all of you know."
But nothing saying anything along the lines that it is proven fact that all classes and races will be free guaranteed.
You go right ahead and blithely and blindly follow along, like a good little lapdog. I, for one, will ALWAYS exercise my free will and think for myself.
You go right ahead and blithely and blindly follow along, like a good little lapdog. I, for one, will ALWAYS exercise my free will and think for myself.
Im just posting what was actually posted in that thread. I am not saying you are wrong, nor am I saying they are right. I am of the decision to wait and see what they do and then react to it. Instead of knee jerk reacting to a situation before it has happened.
Im just posting what was actually posted in that thread. I am not saying you are wrong, nor am I saying they are right. I am of the decision to wait and see what they do and then react to it. Instead of knee jerk reacting to a situation before it has happened.
I had originally intended a scathing response, but instead, I'll just wait, as you suggest and let Craptic prove me right with their actions.
Im just posting what was actually posted in that thread. I am not saying you are wrong, nor am I saying they are right.
Well actually he is wrong and I'm saying it. I don't even consider a race "content" as such. Nowhere did they state that everything they add to the game will be free. That's just ludicrous someone would even think that.
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kimberixMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited July 2013
They have to tread a fine line about what they charge for, and what they don't, especially if they want to continue to call this game Free to play.
Personally, I don't like the phrase at all - it's open to so many definitions that it can't be nailed down at all (which is why companies love to use it).
1) I can play the game as a human GWF all the way to 60 and experience all content for nothing - therefore, it's free to play
2) I can't play the game as a menzo drow / moon elf all the way to 60 and experience all content for nothing, I have to buy a pack for that - therefore, it's not free to play.
Companies love to use #1 in their publicity, players love to argue about #2 on the forums.
They have to tread a fine line about what they charge for, and what they don't, especially if they want to continue to call this game Free to play.
Personally, I don't like the phrase at all - it's open to so many definitions that it can't be nailed down at all (which is why companies love to use it).
1) I can play the game as a human GWF all the way to 60 and experience all content for nothing - therefore, it's free to play
F2P means there is no up-front cost, and so Neverwinter is F2P.
In fact, given that you can see all the quest content without spending anything, it is one of the most generous F2P models around.
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kimberixMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
F2P means there is no up-front cost, and so Neverwinter is F2P.
In fact, given that you can see all the quest content without spending anything, it is one of the most generous F2P models around.
But only as certain races and that's where the debate comes in. As I said, if you want to play a menzo drow / moon elf, you have to pay and it is Cryptic's model of offering certain elements of the expansions at a premium that will continue to isolate certain players.
I totally understand that it is how they make their money - but you will always get one person who wants to 'play for free', yet wishes to roll a race that needs to be paid for. In their minds, the game isn't free to play.
If you walked into a Free Buffet and found you still had to pay for some of the food, would you consider it Free to Eat?
I suppose it depends on which way you look at it - which is why I said companies love to use the 'free to eat' line, but players will often complain about some of the food being 'pay to eat'
I can't help thinking that there should be something after the 'play', such as an except..., or a but...
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wylderfoxMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 43
edited July 2013
Okay- back on topic here. When I saw the pack available last night before playing, I saw nothing indicating it would NOT be available immediately...or at least on the preview realms. So, I purchased it.
I think there should be a disclaimer as to the exact release date of the pack if the content will not be released AT ALL immediately. However, if I am the one in error, please let me know HOW I can access this new content I just purchased now, even if it is just "Preview"- I think it was a clever idea to get more people interested in beta testing the upcoming content.
I am disappointed, but I have no idea on how to make a formal complaint about this. Perhaps, those of us who DO support Cryptic financially could do with some sort of "extra" nothing important or game-changing... but another title or a ward for the pre-buyers. I don't know.
I personally love this game, and I like the new content being released continuously by the players themselves at a steady rate. This is still a great MMO.
and what about the hero paths?we still play with only 1 hero path on each class....any news when will they release the other 2 paths?or what about any new classes?
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kimberixMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited July 2013
From the FAQ (not sure if this was added very recently or not);
After I purchase a pack, when will I be able to claim my items?
The items will become available when Module 1: Fury of the Feywild is released.
(which I think is August 22nd)
Personally though, I'm concerned that none of this content is yet available on the preview server - does this mean that it's not going to be tested thoroughly, like GG?
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xhritMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited July 2013
I was going to buy it until I saw that it would not be until the module launch.
Except you can't make a moon elf on the preview shard right now. Will only show up after Fury of the Feywild shows up on the preview shard.
I'm going to assume that the race itself isn't really an item, since you don't "collect" it, same as the extra character slot.
On the topic of paying for it, I'd be more willing to drop $15-$20 for just the race itself, rather than getting all the extra items that I really don't care for. Sure, there's value there in what they offer when you match it against standard costs (though I think those costs are slightly overvalued in my opinion from the start), but for someone who just wants to play the race specifically, $60 is a really big investment.
Still don't see my point? Then look at the tattooed drows. You currently can't play as a drow of any kind without throwing money down. Whether that changes later, we'll see, but in order to do so right now, you have to drop a crippling $200. Sure, I don't NEED to play as one, and it's mostly just cosmetic to play as one, but this is a DnD game for crying out loud. This is the essence of what role playing started out as. Minor choices like this mean a LOT to a lot of folks here.
So again, I ask this: why not make an option to opt out of all the extras for it? You still make your money, people who wouldn't purchase it for the higher price point get to be at least a little more satisfied with paying a lower price, and everyone is happy.
unicorn mounts and fruity moon elves? Cyrptic, this game has never felt like a neverwinter game but... This is just getting a bit redic. Feels like this game is made for 13 year old girls.
unicorn mounts and fruity moon elves? Cyrptic, this game has never felt like a neverwinter game but... This is just getting a bit redic. Feels like this game is made for 13 year old girls.
Only 13 year old girls can like Moon elves and Unicorns. Really gotta show your a man and you are firm with your sexuality right? Its a game, get over yourself.
unicorn mounts and fruity moon elves? Cyrptic, this game has never felt like a neverwinter game but... This is just getting a bit redic. Feels like this game is made for 13 year old girls.
Hey now, there's nothing more manly than riding into battle on a pearly white unicorn, as a pointy-eared slender elf, shining like the pale moon, with your fairy companion hot on your heels.
If I were an orc, I'd be blinded by the sheer manliness of the sight alone.
unicorn mounts and fruity moon elves? Cyrptic, this game has never felt like a neverwinter game but... This is just getting a bit redic. Feels like this game is made for 13 year old girls.
except that 13 years old girls don't like unicorn mounts and fruity moon elves they like bloodthirsty orcs and wof mounts. Really
unicorn mounts and fruity moon elves? Cyrptic, this game has never felt like a neverwinter game but... This is just getting a bit redic. Feels like this game is made for 13 year old girls.
Moon Elves and unicorns are part of the world setting. It's kind of ridiculous criticizing the introduction of elements of the setting, especially when those elements go along well with a pack they are putting out.
They already have bears, wargs, howlers, tigers, and no doubt more to come for the manly men out there. The unicorn provides an option for those that don't need or desire a manly man mount.
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raize76Member, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 10Arc User
edited July 2013
Not trying to defend these practices since i'm kind of mystified at this pay scheme but if you have several characters (character slots are pretty cheap after all) then this $60 pack is actually rather good value given you get the companion and mount on every single character. Both of those for one character would be estimated at..$40 on their own?
Not trying to defend these practices since i'm kind of mystified at this pay scheme but if you have several characters (character slots are pretty cheap after all) then this $60 pack is actually rather good value given you get the companion and mount on every single character. Both of those for one character would be estimated at..$40 on their own?
Yeah, it's great value if you want everything in the pack, or even a few things in the pack...
But trouble is, most people have already bought Zen (Either with money or through the Exchange) and bought a Mount. All of the Zen Store Mounts are Account-wide already, and unless you specifically want a Unicorn having more than one Rank 3 mount is a bit of a waste.
Chances are the Companion, like most Striker companions, is completely 100% useless. The Stone could be nice, but without knowing the stats, rarity and the slots it has... we don't really know. Same with the Armor Enchant, not enough is known.
If they'd listed the Moon Elf in the Zen Store (For like, 3-4k Zen) and also had this pack then I would have zero complaints. Mounts and Fashion are nice, but optional. Races are far more important, and being "Locked out" of one because I'm not willing to spend 60 bucks on it (And considering I'd be buying the pack just for that, it -is- 60 dollars for it) is just BS.
Expect everything to be entirely cash based in the future, high prices means desperation, which means the game will not likely last very long as there is diminished incentive to develop it further (why do you think they're adding more elves (reskins) to the already existent elves (laziest expansion ever). Thus the company needs to milk it as hard as they can, a real publisher (note that PWE bought Cryptic Studios (same company)) can fix bugs and exploits (there really aren't that many in this game) in a single week.
Not trying to defend these practices since i'm kind of mystified at this pay scheme but if you have several characters (character slots are pretty cheap after all) then this $60 pack is actually rather good value given you get the companion and mount on every single character. Both of those for one character would be estimated at..$40 on their own?
For me, the issue isn't having access to an exclusive race as part of a pack, it's the fact that what has been the default Elf player race in the Forgotten Realms for over 30 years is only available as part of a $60 pack while a race of elitist and reclusive Elves is available to all. It's pretty clear what PWE/Cryptic are doing here.
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tackthornMember, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 6Arc User
But only as certain races and that's where the debate comes in. As I said, if you want to play a menzo drow / moon elf, you have to pay and it is Cryptic's model of offering certain elements of the expansions at a premium that will continue to isolate certain players.
I totally understand that it is how they make their money - but you will always get one person who wants to 'play for free', yet wishes to roll a race that needs to be paid for. In their minds, the game isn't free to play.
If you walked into a Free Buffet and found you still had to pay for some of the food, would you consider it Free to Eat?
I suppose it depends on which way you look at it - which is why I said companies love to use the 'free to eat' line, but players will often complain about some of the food being 'pay to eat'
I can't help thinking that there should be something after the 'play', such as an except..., or a but...
I've actually been to one of those. "Free Buffet" the stuff in the "buffet line" was free, the other stuff laid out on the other side and on the menus, were not. We paid for dessert, got a free meal. That's what this is, almost an exact comparison.
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tackthornMember, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 6Arc User
edited August 2013
Xtropian For me, the issue isn't having access to an exclusive race as part of a pack, it's the fact that what has been the default Elf player race in the Forgotten Realms for over 30 years is only available as part of a $60 pack while a race of elitist and reclusive Elves is available to all. It's pretty clear what PWE/Cryptic are doing here.
The world has changed and currently wood elves have become the less reclusive. Easy story chance seeing as we're more than a hundred years past where moon elves were so common and then this one is even after the Sundering. Is this actually where the FR is going? I don't know for sure but it's highly possible.
Actually, they are saying "pay more if you want these optional extras" for the expansion.
This is the same kind of thing other MMOs do all the time, just in a different way (in their case it is often buy the basic version for the low price, or the deluxe, limited edition with extra stuff, including in game items, for a higher price).
It seems you are not familiar with standard MMO practices.
Actually, they're shaving off parts of the expansion, adding some currency and charging you as much as an entire full sized game.
Most mmo's don't do it all the time. Please show me five that sell tiny bits from an expansion for as much as a full AAA title. You can't. You're just making stuff up hoping no one will be experienced enough to call you on it.
WoW expansions, which include an entire continent, races, dungeons, etc. cost FORTY. You're paying twenty more dollars for a race, and some cosmetics, and AD.
Most mmo don't charge full game price for a few items that the company ripped out to sell to you for extra money.
The expansion packs are an obscene rip off. Absolute money mongering. And frankly, this just par for the course with Cryptic and PWE. They were made for each other.
Its so sad, this is a great game, utterly ruined by greed. and what sickens me most, is the group of people like you, who swarm to defend it, just because it's your chosen game.
I wanna go back to being weird. I like being weird. Weird's all I got, oh, and my sweet style. -Maurice Moss, The IT Crowd
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bioshrikeMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,729Arc User
edited August 2013
Every person has to decide if the pack is worth it to them, but here's a cursory analysis:
On Beholder, the AD-Zen rate I most recently saw was about 370, so that 600,000 AD equates to about 1600 Zen = $16 US.
The cheapest T3 mount is 2500 Zen = $25 US
The cheapest Purple companion, IIRC, is about 3000 Zen = $30 US
Now, the real-world value/utility of these items is debatable, but going by their own prices, just the 3 items above exceed the $60 price tag.
Again, I want to emphasize that each person has to decide what the pack is *really* worth...
<::::::::::::::)xxxo <::::::::::::::)xxxo <::::::::::::)xxxxxxxx(:::::::::::> oxxx(::::::::::::::> oxxx(::::::::::::::> "Is it better to be feared or respected? I say, is it too much to ask for both?" -Tony Stark Official NW_Legit_Community Forums
Can someone explain to me why WoW can release an EP for $60 and a deluxe with extra ingame title, novelty item, mini statue and art book for $160 and everyone's fine with it, but when Cryptic releases an expansion for free and a bunch of optional extras for $60, everyone's acting like they're bottom feeding scum?
I just don't understand why people ***** about something that is optional? Don't like it don't buy it simple. Don't like the game? don't play it easy enough no?!
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beckylunaticMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 14,231Arc User
edited August 2013
So... the WoW expansions cost money to actually play the content?
The Neverwinter expansion doesn't cost anything (in real money) to play the content. The $60 pack is for, as said, a bunch of stuff that some players think is very nice to have, but none of it is necessary.
Comments
You go right ahead and blithely and blindly follow along, like a good little lapdog. I, for one, will ALWAYS exercise my free will and think for myself.
Occam's Razor makes the cutting clean.
Im just posting what was actually posted in that thread. I am not saying you are wrong, nor am I saying they are right. I am of the decision to wait and see what they do and then react to it. Instead of knee jerk reacting to a situation before it has happened.
I had originally intended a scathing response, but instead, I'll just wait, as you suggest and let Craptic prove me right with their actions.
Occam's Razor makes the cutting clean.
If you are right I will do everything I can to necro this post so you can see it again that I said this.
Clcmercy you are right!
Well actually he is wrong and I'm saying it. I don't even consider a race "content" as such. Nowhere did they state that everything they add to the game will be free. That's just ludicrous someone would even think that.
Personally, I don't like the phrase at all - it's open to so many definitions that it can't be nailed down at all (which is why companies love to use it).
1) I can play the game as a human GWF all the way to 60 and experience all content for nothing - therefore, it's free to play
2) I can't play the game as a menzo drow / moon elf all the way to 60 and experience all content for nothing, I have to buy a pack for that - therefore, it's not free to play.
Companies love to use #1 in their publicity, players love to argue about #2 on the forums.
F2P means there is no up-front cost, and so Neverwinter is F2P.
In fact, given that you can see all the quest content without spending anything, it is one of the most generous F2P models around.
But only as certain races and that's where the debate comes in. As I said, if you want to play a menzo drow / moon elf, you have to pay and it is Cryptic's model of offering certain elements of the expansions at a premium that will continue to isolate certain players.
I totally understand that it is how they make their money - but you will always get one person who wants to 'play for free', yet wishes to roll a race that needs to be paid for. In their minds, the game isn't free to play.
If you walked into a Free Buffet and found you still had to pay for some of the food, would you consider it Free to Eat?
I suppose it depends on which way you look at it - which is why I said companies love to use the 'free to eat' line, but players will often complain about some of the food being 'pay to eat'
I can't help thinking that there should be something after the 'play', such as an except..., or a but...
I think there should be a disclaimer as to the exact release date of the pack if the content will not be released AT ALL immediately. However, if I am the one in error, please let me know HOW I can access this new content I just purchased now, even if it is just "Preview"- I think it was a clever idea to get more people interested in beta testing the upcoming content.
I am disappointed, but I have no idea on how to make a formal complaint about this. Perhaps, those of us who DO support Cryptic financially could do with some sort of "extra" nothing important or game-changing... but another title or a ward for the pre-buyers. I don't know.
I personally love this game, and I like the new content being released continuously by the players themselves at a steady rate. This is still a great MMO.
After I purchase a pack, when will I be able to claim my items?
The items will become available when Module 1: Fury of the Feywild is released.
(which I think is August 22nd)
Personally though, I'm concerned that none of this content is yet available on the preview server - does this mean that it's not going to be tested thoroughly, like GG?
It says on the top of this page...
http://nw.perfectworld.com/feywildpack
"The items in these packs will be available on Preview only, until Fury of the Feywild is released."
So you can make a moon elf on the preview server now.
Feast of the Moon | Rising of the Dark | Shadow of the World | Everdark
Except you can't make a moon elf on the preview shard right now. Will only show up after Fury of the Feywild shows up on the preview shard.
I'm going to assume that the race itself isn't really an item, since you don't "collect" it, same as the extra character slot.
On the topic of paying for it, I'd be more willing to drop $15-$20 for just the race itself, rather than getting all the extra items that I really don't care for. Sure, there's value there in what they offer when you match it against standard costs (though I think those costs are slightly overvalued in my opinion from the start), but for someone who just wants to play the race specifically, $60 is a really big investment.
Still don't see my point? Then look at the tattooed drows. You currently can't play as a drow of any kind without throwing money down. Whether that changes later, we'll see, but in order to do so right now, you have to drop a crippling $200. Sure, I don't NEED to play as one, and it's mostly just cosmetic to play as one, but this is a DnD game for crying out loud. This is the essence of what role playing started out as. Minor choices like this mean a LOT to a lot of folks here.
So again, I ask this: why not make an option to opt out of all the extras for it? You still make your money, people who wouldn't purchase it for the higher price point get to be at least a little more satisfied with paying a lower price, and everyone is happy.
Only 13 year old girls can like Moon elves and Unicorns. Really gotta show your a man and you are firm with your sexuality right? Its a game, get over yourself.
Hey now, there's nothing more manly than riding into battle on a pearly white unicorn, as a pointy-eared slender elf, shining like the pale moon, with your fairy companion hot on your heels.
If I were an orc, I'd be blinded by the sheer manliness of the sight alone.
Moon Elves and unicorns are part of the world setting. It's kind of ridiculous criticizing the introduction of elements of the setting, especially when those elements go along well with a pack they are putting out.
They already have bears, wargs, howlers, tigers, and no doubt more to come for the manly men out there. The unicorn provides an option for those that don't need or desire a manly man mount.
Yeah, it's great value if you want everything in the pack, or even a few things in the pack...
But trouble is, most people have already bought Zen (Either with money or through the Exchange) and bought a Mount. All of the Zen Store Mounts are Account-wide already, and unless you specifically want a Unicorn having more than one Rank 3 mount is a bit of a waste.
Chances are the Companion, like most Striker companions, is completely 100% useless. The Stone could be nice, but without knowing the stats, rarity and the slots it has... we don't really know. Same with the Armor Enchant, not enough is known.
If they'd listed the Moon Elf in the Zen Store (For like, 3-4k Zen) and also had this pack then I would have zero complaints. Mounts and Fashion are nice, but optional. Races are far more important, and being "Locked out" of one because I'm not willing to spend 60 bucks on it (And considering I'd be buying the pack just for that, it -is- 60 dollars for it) is just BS.
For me, the issue isn't having access to an exclusive race as part of a pack, it's the fact that what has been the default Elf player race in the Forgotten Realms for over 30 years is only available as part of a $60 pack while a race of elitist and reclusive Elves is available to all. It's pretty clear what PWE/Cryptic are doing here.
I've actually been to one of those. "Free Buffet" the stuff in the "buffet line" was free, the other stuff laid out on the other side and on the menus, were not. We paid for dessert, got a free meal. That's what this is, almost an exact comparison.
For me, the issue isn't having access to an exclusive race as part of a pack, it's the fact that what has been the default Elf player race in the Forgotten Realms for over 30 years is only available as part of a $60 pack while a race of elitist and reclusive Elves is available to all. It's pretty clear what PWE/Cryptic are doing here.
The world has changed and currently wood elves have become the less reclusive. Easy story chance seeing as we're more than a hundred years past where moon elves were so common and then this one is even after the Sundering. Is this actually where the FR is going? I don't know for sure but it's highly possible.
Actually, they're shaving off parts of the expansion, adding some currency and charging you as much as an entire full sized game.
Most mmo's don't do it all the time. Please show me five that sell tiny bits from an expansion for as much as a full AAA title. You can't. You're just making stuff up hoping no one will be experienced enough to call you on it.
WoW expansions, which include an entire continent, races, dungeons, etc. cost FORTY. You're paying twenty more dollars for a race, and some cosmetics, and AD.
Most mmo don't charge full game price for a few items that the company ripped out to sell to you for extra money.
The expansion packs are an obscene rip off. Absolute money mongering. And frankly, this just par for the course with Cryptic and PWE. They were made for each other.
Its so sad, this is a great game, utterly ruined by greed. and what sickens me most, is the group of people like you, who swarm to defend it, just because it's your chosen game.
On Beholder, the AD-Zen rate I most recently saw was about 370, so that 600,000 AD equates to about 1600 Zen = $16 US.
The cheapest T3 mount is 2500 Zen = $25 US
The cheapest Purple companion, IIRC, is about 3000 Zen = $30 US
Now, the real-world value/utility of these items is debatable, but going by their own prices, just the 3 items above exceed the $60 price tag.
Again, I want to emphasize that each person has to decide what the pack is *really* worth...
"Is it better to be feared or respected? I say, is it too much to ask for both?" -Tony Stark
Official NW_Legit_Community Forums
The Neverwinter expansion doesn't cost anything (in real money) to play the content. The $60 pack is for, as said, a bunch of stuff that some players think is very nice to have, but none of it is necessary.
But WoW is a better deal?
Am confused.
Neverwinter Census 2017
All posts pending disapproval by Cecilia