Correct... and the converse is also true: Just because some can't defeat rogues doesn't negate the fact that others can.
And in retrospect those same people lose to my daddy's rogue. Because my daddy's rogue can beat up yours and anybody elses daddy's whatever class! :mad:
Well I'm not going to claim some special insider knowledge about Cryptic or MMO financing in general, but I can tell you that the F2P/microtransaction business model treats more $$$ as = better. LOL
Not trying to be a smartass or anything.
I think it's not a question of "need" so much as "want". Cryptic wants to make big bucks off of this... they are not here to be faithful to D&D or make a game that will last for 20 years. I'm sure they will take what steps they need to, in order to keep it going for a while, but this is money-making time for them. The game is still fresh to the general market... it's still "young", so to speak.
Sure, my point is that Nexon is just as focused on profit as PW, and continues to run a fairly popular game with DN. That implies that either fees received for enchants etc in pvp are not a big money makers, and/or that having an option where gear is irrelevant in pvp is more profitable for the game overall, possibly because it boosts pvp participation and overall game population.
It is therefore reasonable to assume that there is considerable leeway to tweak end-game pvp without hurting profit- and an option for non-gear dependant pvp could actually boost sales.
I doubt the QQing would disappear regardless, but "perma-stealth" builds would likely seem less "OP".
Well, perhaps you are right, yasha... the OPness of the enchants could be dev oversight and not on purpose. Maybe they didn't think that the enchants would be such a factor. The presence of the bugs could certainly be seen as evidence of dev oversight, or a lack of sufficient testing, post-cap PVP.
The fact that PVP is a LOT more balanced pre-60 just led me to believe that the enchant OPness was on purpose. They did their homework on the classes when the enchants are not an issue -- I merely assumed that they had everything worked out to how they wanted it, minus a couple of necessary tweaks after the game hit the market and they could get a sense of where the money was going.
I have every class to 60 and have played each one in PvP for some time. Perma-stealth rogues are only a real threat on my cleric and CW (sometimes my rogue too but I'm never gonna say I'm awesome with him). If playing my cleric, well... I know I'm going to die but that's that. On my CW i try to get a chill strike on the rogue so the ice shard is sticking out of him and i can track him for a little bit. Otherwise i generally just try to dodge or run but eventually they usually get me if they have any skill at all.
I accept these outcomes because that is what rogues are supposed to do. All classes counter each other except for cleric who kind of counters a whole enemy team to a point.
I really think the classes are fairly well balanced atm (with exception to cleric. For the love of G0d tone down righteousness a bit in PvP).
What ever happened to common-sense invisibility options?
1) Complete invisibility is achieved on a successful check every X seconds as long as they're not targeted or provoking action (think of moving stealthily)
2) Partial invisibility is achieved on a successful check every X seconds when using actions (in or out of combat, think attacking with combat advantage or opening chests)
3) No invisibility is possible when a successful attack is dealt to you (how can you concentrate to go into stealth-mode when swords are hacking at you and magic missiles are hitting you in the face?)
Being able to be completely invisible for the majority of an encounter (esp. pvp) is way too OP. Sure, I'll move a lot, but me moving doesn't deal damage to a TR. I need to literally wait until they do a daily on me before I can target them... oh wait, I'm respawning... zzz
What ever happened to common-sense invisibility options?
1) Complete invisibility is achieved on a successful check every X seconds as long as they're not targeted or provoking action (think of moving stealthily)
2) Partial invisibility is achieved on a successful check every X seconds when using actions (in or out of combat, think attacking with combat advantage or opening chests)
3) No invisibility is possible when a successful attack is dealt to you (how can you concentrate to go into stealth-mode when swords are hacking at you and magic missiles are hitting you in the face?)
Being able to be completely invisible for the majority of an encounter (esp. pvp) is way too OP. Sure, I'll move a lot, but me moving doesn't deal damage to a TR. I need to literally wait until they do a daily on me before I can target them... oh wait, I'm respawning... zzz
... and yet, this is not how stealth works in Neverwinter. I understand your frustration, and if you read through the thread, I (and others) have addressed this more than several times. Just because a game mechanic does not work in the way that you expect (or want it to) does not make it OP.
There are quite a few ways to deal with invisible rogues, and there are all kinds of tips in this thread. Feel free to read through and get a sense of how you can adapt your playstyle and tactics to how things work in this game. Pay special attention to the TRs who have posted in here and reveal what makes them tick and what makes them vulnerable... capitalize on those things, and maybe you will see better results in your game.
Here's one example to get you started: a stealthed rogue who hangs back and tosses daggers does not want you to come looking for him. Chances are he is not packing much in terms of melee-range encounters, and if you get a hold of him he is toast. What he wants is for you to hold still and be an easy target and not try to fight back or escape.
... and yet, this is not how stealth works in Neverwinter.
It could be a decent game then. But no, can't have that.
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katbozejziemiMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 856Arc User
edited July 2013
I wonder in what universe Lurker's Assault can possibly be considered a balanced power.
Why doesn't the GWF have a daily power that makes you regenerate determination faster than you lose it while unstoppable while ALSO INCREASING YOUR DAMAGE BY SIXTY ****ING PERCENT?
I wonder in what universe Lurker's Assault can possibly be considered a balanced power.
Why doesn't the GWF have a daily power that makes you regenerate determination faster than you lose it while unstoppable while ALSO INCREASING YOUR DAMAGE BY SIXTY ****ING PERCENT?
What were they thinking.
Lurker assault increase your damage by 20% not sixty.
GWF do have a feat that lets them regenerate more action points while in Unstoppable mode (which helps them spam their dailies). They also have a Class Feature that lets them regenerate stable Determination while fighting.
Here's one example to get you started: a stealthed rogue who hangs back and tosses daggers does not want you to come looking for him. Chances are he is not packing much in terms of melee-range encounters, and if you get a hold of him he is toast. What he wants is for you to hold still and be an easy target and not try to fight back or escape.
Exactly!
Most of the times i'm hitting someone with CoS they are just standing there and not even dodging!
They can just move around and confuse the TR forcing him also to move around.
Today i was vs a perma TR, and what i did i simply kept using my dodges while he is throwing daggers. eventually he approached to use shadow strike to regenerate stealth back. This is when i stunned him with impact shot and gave him a nice juicy lashing blade.
In another situation i used blood bath and he tried to stealth it , was fun seeing him running stealthed in confusion while im constantly hitting him with my untargetable daily
PS. I like your post, your ideas are very good and rational.I've learned few tricks myself to counter the perma rogues and i always encourage people like you who adapt to situations and make creative ways to improve playstyle instead of crying for a nerf hammer. Keep up!
Lurkers is +60% damage at rank 3. It lasts for 10 seconds (or close enough) and can give the rogue the ability to use an encounter power while staying stealthed. It is an amazing daily, and very powerful.
Lurkers can also get canceled by almost any control power -- except slow or push, IIRC. The rogue does not get any kind of bonus to defense, so they are just as squishy as they normally are.
About the GWF, they do not have a feat or any kind of power to extend unstoppable. It does not refill during its duration, nor is there any way to cancel it or shorten it. As game mechanics go, the only thing that stealth and unstoppable have in common is a countdown timer. The GWF gets bonus HP (a LOT), a very large buff to damage resistance, and their atwill attack speed goes through the roof while sacrificing a small amount of atwill damage. I have seen a post that claims there is no real damage buff from unstoppable, as the speed gain is offset by the damage loss per swing, but in my experience this simply isn't true. The GWF does more total damage during an unstoppable (not by a lot, but still).
As for being OP, unstoppable and stealth are about equal IMO. Neither are OP, but they are certainly not UP, either.
Lurkers is +60% damage at rank 3. It lasts for 10 seconds (or close enough) and can give the rogue the ability to use an encounter power while staying stealthed. It is an amazing daily, and very powerful.
Lurkers can also get canceled by almost any control power -- except slow or push, IIRC. The rogue does not get any kind of bonus to defense, so they are just as squishy as they normally are.
About the GWF, they do not have a feat or any kind of power to extend unstoppable. It does not refill during its duration, nor is there any way to cancel it or shorten it. As game mechanics go, the only thing that stealth and unstoppable have in common is a countdown timer. The GWF gets bonus HP (a LOT), a very large buff to damage resistance, and their atwill attack speed goes through the roof while sacrificing a small amount of atwill damage. I have seen a post that claims there is no real damage buff from unstoppable, as the speed gain is offset by the damage loss per swing, but in my experience this simply isn't true. The GWF does more total damage during an unstoppable (not by a lot, but still).
As for being OP, unstoppable and stealth are about equal IMO. Neither are OP, but they are certainly not UP, either.
Thanks for the lurker assault correction, i forgot that the game doesn't add upgrading bonuses on the daily tool tip:)
What about Steadfast Determination, can you explain how does it exactly work? Im building my GWF and i was thinking if that can extend my unstoppable
esteena, Steadfast Determination, I am sad to report, is terrible -- unless you are building a daily/encounter spam build. It is simply not worth it when you could be getting really good class features in its place. Give up +15% deflect and runspeed or +7.5% crit or +15% damage? NO WAY
GWFs generate so much determination that Steadfast is really unnecessary to begin with. You will be hulking out constantly, and the tiny uptick during combat is barely noticeable... unless you are spamming lots of encounters or dailies that consume time with long animations... avalanche of steel, etc.
How it works: when you are "in combat" (a mob has targeted you recently) it very slowly adds tiny slivers to your determination bar while you are not unstoppable. That's it. LOL kinda sucky.
esteena, Steadfast Determination, I am sad to report, is terrible -- unless you are building a daily/encounter spam build. It is simply not worth it when you could be getting really good class features in its place. Give up +15% deflect and runspeed or +7.5% crit or +15% damage? NO WAY
GWFs generate so much determination that Steadfast is really unnecessary to begin with. You will be hulking out constantly, and the tiny uptick during combat is barely noticeable... unless you are spamming lots of encounters or dailies that consume time with long animations... avalanche of steel, etc.
How it works: when you are "in combat" (a mob has targeted you recently) it adds tiny slivers to your determination bar. That's it. LOL kinda sucky.
Thanks ! it really does sound terrible sadly heh.
I will certainly use the deflection one then it would suit my build more i think.
Thanks ! it really does sound terrible sadly heh.
I will certainly use the deflection one then it would suit my build more i think.
Good call! Bravery is one of the best class features in the entire game. If you think about it, a +15% to deflect when you have 50% deflect severity (the GWFs really get it good there) is equal to +7.5% damage resistance. That's the same as having +15 to your AC. LOL holy HAMSTER
My GWF spam build runs with Bravery and Steadfast -- yes, I know I just slated it -- but that's because my build is the one kind that Steadfast actually does anything to help.
Good call! Bravery is one of the best class features in the entire game. If you think about it, a +15% to deflect when you have 50% deflect severity (the GWFs really get it good there) is equal to +7.5% damage resistance. That's the same as having +15 to your AC. LOL holy HAMSTER
My GWF spam build runs with Bravery and Steadfast -- yes, I know I just slated it -- but that's because my build is the one kind that Steadfast actually does anything to help.
I'm going to try a regenerative build , i think Bravery would suit there since i can use some deflection .
Why doesn't the GWF have a daily power that makes you regenerate determination faster than you lose it while unstoppable while ALSO INCREASING YOUR DAMAGE BY SIXTY ****ING PERCENT?
GWF have ways to speed up Determination gain, either with an encounter (Reaping Strike), a personal power and feats. Determination is build by default by taking damage, only the Destroyer path ends with a feat that makes it build up by dealing damage. While Unstoppable AP generation goes through the roof.
TR's have several ways to extend their stealth duration, and two ways to speed it up. Stupid players killing the Bait & Switch dummy or the use of a Daily. TR AP generation is HAMSTER, but can be feated (and slotted) for the increase a bit while stealthed, as well as a damage increase from stealth.
That's the theory from the tooltips. In practice a GWF will have a lot more access to his dailies and unstoppable than a TR has to his dailies. Stealth generation is steady, and therefor not necessarily faster or slower that the GWF's determination which depends on players hitting him.
Personally I don't think Lurker's should keep a TR in stealth when he's doing stuff that would normally pop him out of it, but otherwise I'd say it's balanced. I know the one on the receiving end will probably think otherwise, but with AP generation being the lowest of all classes, I'd say a bit of uumph to make up for that is okay.
But it at least seems to me that Cryptic designed the TR to be in stealth most of the time, so why not all the time?
Hey guys, just wanted to pop in here real quick and say that I've been seeing a LOT less "you suck L2P" comments from rogues on the nerf/QQ threads. Also, I'm seeing some people linking to this thread. Thanks, guys... you know who you are out there. Keep up the good work! :cool:
Hey guys, just wanted to pop in here real quick and say that I've been seeing a LOT less "you suck L2P" comments from rogues on the nerf/QQ threads. Also, I'm seeing some people linking to this thread. Thanks, guys... you know who you are out there. Keep up the good work! :cool:
I would certainly link this thread to anyone since i agree with it 100%.
I'm a daily PvPers and i can assure you that some perma rogues are suffering more than ever because players are making new strategies fighting them.
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milkbonedogMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 1Arc User
edited July 2013
I am the rogue they all want to fight. I really though stealth was completely useless in this game because it did not work like any other stealth character I played so I barely used it. The stealth meter goes down so quickly and all the abilities to recharge it do no/barely any damage. On top of that, almost everything I do removes stealth and once I am out of stealth it is impossible to get back in because any damage I take keeps my stealth meter from recharging. I could slot Shadow Strike to regain stealth, but as I said, it doesn't do much damage and Why would I want to regain stealth when I am just going to lose it again in a second.
I would pop stealth, run in and hit lashing blade, and melee until I killed them or they killed me. Dodge, dodge, can't dodge....run....oh no, I got knocked down or a CW just CC me and hang here unable to do anything. Oh look. Now I am dead. Many times I lost. LB is easily avoided and if it misses I am probably going to lose the fight. Even if it hits I am still probably going to lose against a GF or GFW.
I looked to the forums to see why my TR sucked so bad (yes, I know I need to L2P). It made no sense to me that a Stealth class could only use stealth for a few seconds. In WOW I could run around in stealth for hours if I wanted to so this made no sense to me. Then I found x3lade's thread and realized how badly I was playing my rogue. That guy really deserves some serious props. He did a ton of testing and learned his class inside and out and then he made a very informative thread explaining everything to everyone.
Did I run right out and build a perma-stealth rogue? Nope. I haven't changed a thing yet because I barely play my rogue right now. But it is nice to see how a rogue is supposed to play. I am not saying perma-stealth is the only way to play a rogue, what I am saying is after reading his thread and realizing how the abilities COULD be used and looking at the new Gaunt set bonus it is painfully obvious that a rogue is supposed to fight WHILE stealthed in this game (again, the opposite of WOW). Are they meant to be perma-stealthed? I don't know. Time will tell on that one, but I do believe they were given these abilities so they could stay in stealth as long as possible.
For those hoping stealth will be nerfed... I really don't think it is going to happen. And PLEASE do not nerf CoS. It already has such a long CD as it is and all the other player has to do is make the rogue move or break LOS to stop the scaling damage. It is not that hard. Either run towards the blades or run away. It's not like they can hit you from 80+ ft away. You can also run behind something or just run into a crowd.
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nukeyooBanned Users, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited July 2013
I said it was inevitable, but that is definitely a larger suppository then I expected. :cool: I guess rationality won out. I can only imagine the nerd rage and tears this announcement is garnering.
Cloud of Steel: This power now has 8 maximum charges, down from 12.
Duelist's Flurry: When the bleed portion of this power is at 10 stacks, further applications now recalculate damage in addition to refreshing the duration.
Feat: Speed Swindle: This feat is now properly considered a Control effect for calculations and procs.
Lurker's Assault: This power now grants 5 / 10 / 15% bonus Crit Severity, instead of 20 / 40 / 60% bonus damage.
Stealth: At-will powers used from stealth will now partially deplete the Stealth Meter.
I said it was inevitable, but that is definitely a larger suppository then I expected. :cool: I guess rationality won out. I can only imagine the nerd rage and tears this announcement is garnering.
Honestly, these nerfs shouldn't be too concerning for a rogue in PvP. They got pretty shafted in PvE. Though, anyone with an actual clue about this game should be more concerned about the lack of nerfs that a certain other class got.
I said it was inevitable, but that is definitely a larger suppository then I expected. :cool: I guess rationality won out. I can only imagine the nerd rage and tears this announcement is garnering.
These aren't really nerfs more like they were fixing the broken class of perma stealth. Some more adjustments are needed but this was the big one.
can extend the duration of his stealth -- in extreme cases -- nearly indefinitely, as long as he has a target to attack.
Then, why such a wall of text? What you say is what the non-TR xommunity (aka 10% of the community) is saying: it's either
- Big big nerf for the TR to bring him more or less on par.
- non-TRs will only exist as Alts
Cryptic, you know that. Just everywhere a NW review is, you will see it written, even if the main concerns will be things like P2W, non-open world, lack of content etc etc.
But... you Cryptic can't even give an eta on something as simple a fixing the Sort. Then... fixing the balance?
English is not my first language.
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ghostravynMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 59
Good post. Just a style comment - you may want to use the green text as your topic text. The color is quite glaring on default forum setting and shouldn't be used as main body color.
ermmmmm, nop, crying and raging won out. Crappy players managed to dumb the game down, but thats not really big news.
Give me 1 week after this goes live and we can have fresh new scrub tears filling this forum against what i am saving on my pocket for a build... although i didnt test it yet so im not sure on how hard it will hit on scrubby players, but it will be fun to try =D
Yep, same here. I got a crazy build on my mind and im just waiting to apply it.
*
And nope, i will never write a guide about it lol i will just make it my secret killing machine. *evil laugh*
Sadly I feel rogues are going to have their role in dungeons replaced because they will no longer be of any use.
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gutbotMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 28Arc User
edited July 2013
I did come here to gloat, but then I thought about it for a sec and I think cryptic went to far again, I was all for some reduction but this is just silly. just one of the nerfs related to stealth and cloud of steel would have be enough imo. lurkers sounds like its going to be destroyed to the point that no one will have it on their bar.
Comments
And in retrospect those same people lose to my daddy's rogue. Because my daddy's rogue can beat up yours and anybody elses daddy's whatever class! :mad:
Sure, my point is that Nexon is just as focused on profit as PW, and continues to run a fairly popular game with DN. That implies that either fees received for enchants etc in pvp are not a big money makers, and/or that having an option where gear is irrelevant in pvp is more profitable for the game overall, possibly because it boosts pvp participation and overall game population.
It is therefore reasonable to assume that there is considerable leeway to tweak end-game pvp without hurting profit- and an option for non-gear dependant pvp could actually boost sales.
I doubt the QQing would disappear regardless, but "perma-stealth" builds would likely seem less "OP".
The fact that PVP is a LOT more balanced pre-60 just led me to believe that the enchant OPness was on purpose. They did their homework on the classes when the enchants are not an issue -- I merely assumed that they had everything worked out to how they wanted it, minus a couple of necessary tweaks after the game hit the market and they could get a sense of where the money was going.
I could very well be wrong about all of that.
THIS. So much this. I think most of us would agree that DC could use a buff. Seems to me that the other 4 classes are more or less equal.
I accept these outcomes because that is what rogues are supposed to do. All classes counter each other except for cleric who kind of counters a whole enemy team to a point.
I really think the classes are fairly well balanced atm (with exception to cleric. For the love of G0d tone down righteousness a bit in PvP).
1) Complete invisibility is achieved on a successful check every X seconds as long as they're not targeted or provoking action (think of moving stealthily)
2) Partial invisibility is achieved on a successful check every X seconds when using actions (in or out of combat, think attacking with combat advantage or opening chests)
3) No invisibility is possible when a successful attack is dealt to you (how can you concentrate to go into stealth-mode when swords are hacking at you and magic missiles are hitting you in the face?)
Being able to be completely invisible for the majority of an encounter (esp. pvp) is way too OP. Sure, I'll move a lot, but me moving doesn't deal damage to a TR. I need to literally wait until they do a daily on me before I can target them... oh wait, I'm respawning... zzz
... and yet, this is not how stealth works in Neverwinter. I understand your frustration, and if you read through the thread, I (and others) have addressed this more than several times. Just because a game mechanic does not work in the way that you expect (or want it to) does not make it OP.
There are quite a few ways to deal with invisible rogues, and there are all kinds of tips in this thread. Feel free to read through and get a sense of how you can adapt your playstyle and tactics to how things work in this game. Pay special attention to the TRs who have posted in here and reveal what makes them tick and what makes them vulnerable... capitalize on those things, and maybe you will see better results in your game.
Here's one example to get you started: a stealthed rogue who hangs back and tosses daggers does not want you to come looking for him. Chances are he is not packing much in terms of melee-range encounters, and if you get a hold of him he is toast. What he wants is for you to hold still and be an easy target and not try to fight back or escape.
Why doesn't the GWF have a daily power that makes you regenerate determination faster than you lose it while unstoppable while ALSO INCREASING YOUR DAMAGE BY SIXTY ****ING PERCENT?
What were they thinking.
Lurker assault increase your damage by 20% not sixty.
GWF do have a feat that lets them regenerate more action points while in Unstoppable mode (which helps them spam their dailies). They also have a Class Feature that lets them regenerate stable Determination while fighting.
Exactly!
Most of the times i'm hitting someone with CoS they are just standing there and not even dodging!
They can just move around and confuse the TR forcing him also to move around.
Today i was vs a perma TR, and what i did i simply kept using my dodges while he is throwing daggers. eventually he approached to use shadow strike to regenerate stealth back. This is when i stunned him with impact shot and gave him a nice juicy lashing blade.
In another situation i used blood bath and he tried to stealth it , was fun seeing him running stealthed in confusion while im constantly hitting him with my untargetable daily
PS. I like your post, your ideas are very good and rational.I've learned few tricks myself to counter the perma rogues and i always encourage people like you who adapt to situations and make creative ways to improve playstyle instead of crying for a nerf hammer. Keep up!
Lurkers can also get canceled by almost any control power -- except slow or push, IIRC. The rogue does not get any kind of bonus to defense, so they are just as squishy as they normally are.
About the GWF, they do not have a feat or any kind of power to extend unstoppable. It does not refill during its duration, nor is there any way to cancel it or shorten it. As game mechanics go, the only thing that stealth and unstoppable have in common is a countdown timer. The GWF gets bonus HP (a LOT), a very large buff to damage resistance, and their atwill attack speed goes through the roof while sacrificing a small amount of atwill damage. I have seen a post that claims there is no real damage buff from unstoppable, as the speed gain is offset by the damage loss per swing, but in my experience this simply isn't true. The GWF does more total damage during an unstoppable (not by a lot, but still).
As for being OP, unstoppable and stealth are about equal IMO. Neither are OP, but they are certainly not UP, either.
Thanks for the lurker assault correction, i forgot that the game doesn't add upgrading bonuses on the daily tool tip:)
What about Steadfast Determination, can you explain how does it exactly work? Im building my GWF and i was thinking if that can extend my unstoppable
GWFs generate so much determination that Steadfast is really unnecessary to begin with. You will be hulking out constantly, and the tiny uptick during combat is barely noticeable... unless you are spamming lots of encounters or dailies that consume time with long animations... avalanche of steel, etc.
How it works: when you are "in combat" (a mob has targeted you recently) it very slowly adds tiny slivers to your determination bar while you are not unstoppable. That's it. LOL kinda sucky.
Thanks ! it really does sound terrible sadly heh.
I will certainly use the deflection one then
Good call! Bravery is one of the best class features in the entire game. If you think about it, a +15% to deflect when you have 50% deflect severity (the GWFs really get it good there) is equal to +7.5% damage resistance. That's the same as having +15 to your AC. LOL holy HAMSTER
My GWF spam build runs with Bravery and Steadfast -- yes, I know I just slated it -- but that's because my build is the one kind that Steadfast actually does anything to help.
I'm going to try a regenerative build , i think Bravery would suit there since i can use some deflection
GWF have ways to speed up Determination gain, either with an encounter (Reaping Strike), a personal power and feats. Determination is build by default by taking damage, only the Destroyer path ends with a feat that makes it build up by dealing damage. While Unstoppable AP generation goes through the roof.
TR's have several ways to extend their stealth duration, and two ways to speed it up. Stupid players killing the Bait & Switch dummy or the use of a Daily. TR AP generation is HAMSTER, but can be feated (and slotted) for the increase a bit while stealthed, as well as a damage increase from stealth.
That's the theory from the tooltips. In practice a GWF will have a lot more access to his dailies and unstoppable than a TR has to his dailies. Stealth generation is steady, and therefor not necessarily faster or slower that the GWF's determination which depends on players hitting him.
Personally I don't think Lurker's should keep a TR in stealth when he's doing stuff that would normally pop him out of it, but otherwise I'd say it's balanced. I know the one on the receiving end will probably think otherwise, but with AP generation being the lowest of all classes, I'd say a bit of uumph to make up for that is okay.
But it at least seems to me that Cryptic designed the TR to be in stealth most of the time, so why not all the time?
I would certainly link this thread to anyone
I'm a daily PvPers and i can assure you that some perma rogues are suffering more than ever because players are making new strategies fighting them.
I would pop stealth, run in and hit lashing blade, and melee until I killed them or they killed me. Dodge, dodge, can't dodge....run....oh no, I got knocked down or a CW just CC me and hang here unable to do anything. Oh look. Now I am dead. Many times I lost. LB is easily avoided and if it misses I am probably going to lose the fight. Even if it hits I am still probably going to lose against a GF or GFW.
I looked to the forums to see why my TR sucked so bad (yes, I know I need to L2P). It made no sense to me that a Stealth class could only use stealth for a few seconds. In WOW I could run around in stealth for hours if I wanted to so this made no sense to me. Then I found x3lade's thread and realized how badly I was playing my rogue. That guy really deserves some serious props. He did a ton of testing and learned his class inside and out and then he made a very informative thread explaining everything to everyone.
Did I run right out and build a perma-stealth rogue? Nope. I haven't changed a thing yet because I barely play my rogue right now. But it is nice to see how a rogue is supposed to play. I am not saying perma-stealth is the only way to play a rogue, what I am saying is after reading his thread and realizing how the abilities COULD be used and looking at the new Gaunt set bonus it is painfully obvious that a rogue is supposed to fight WHILE stealthed in this game (again, the opposite of WOW). Are they meant to be perma-stealthed? I don't know. Time will tell on that one, but I do believe they were given these abilities so they could stay in stealth as long as possible.
For those hoping stealth will be nerfed... I really don't think it is going to happen. And PLEASE do not nerf CoS. It already has such a long CD as it is and all the other player has to do is make the rogue move or break LOS to stop the scaling damage. It is not that hard. Either run towards the blades or run away. It's not like they can hit you from 80+ ft away. You can also run behind something or just run into a crowd.
Honestly, these nerfs shouldn't be too concerning for a rogue in PvP. They got pretty shafted in PvE. Though, anyone with an actual clue about this game should be more concerned about the lack of nerfs that a certain other class got.
These aren't really nerfs more like they were fixing the broken class of perma stealth. Some more adjustments are needed but this was the big one.
Then, why such a wall of text? What you say is what the non-TR xommunity (aka 10% of the community) is saying: it's either
- Big big nerf for the TR to bring him more or less on par.
- non-TRs will only exist as Alts
Cryptic, you know that. Just everywhere a NW review is, you will see it written, even if the main concerns will be things like P2W, non-open world, lack of content etc etc.
But... you Cryptic can't even give an eta on something as simple a fixing the Sort. Then... fixing the balance?
Yep, same here. I got a crazy build on my mind and im just waiting to apply it.
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And nope, i will never write a guide about it lol i will just make it my secret killing machine. *evil laugh*