I was embracing this as a opportunity to get my lore and storyline down ... but its getting to the point where even lore hungry players will be overwhelmed.
Is it just me though or has this thread turned into a troll hunting, spamtastic, flame war?
What happened to the lovely friendly foundry chat community we had?
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kamaliiciousMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 0Arc User
Your perspective, not mine, and not necessarily the reality of it all. Cryptic may be incompetent in being able to maintain a reliable service, but they're not completely naive. They know the Foundry is giving them free content. Free work. If they thought it didn't bring them any value they wouldn't have started the Foundry back in the STO days. They know the Foundry is important to Neverwinter, but they don't really know the level of patience the UGC community has yet. So if we keep rolling over as if the Foundry is just a "side quest" (your words) then they will keep abusing that on their priority list.
You are of the opinion that the beancounters care what members of the Foundry forum think. Everyone who posts in the Foundry forums could pull all their quests, and the net effect would be next to zero: Most of the authors of quests at the top of the various lists do not post here.
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cipher9nemoMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
You are of the opinion that the beancounters care what members of the Foundry forum think. Everyone who posts in the Foundry forums could pull all their quests, and the net effect would be next to zero: Most of the authors of quests at the top of the various lists do not post here.
You're putting words in my mouth. Stop that! My opinion is that Cryptic knows the Foundry is important to their success. It has nothing to do with forum posters but everything to do with them assessing the patience level of Foundry authors for putting up with their unreliable mess so far.
Your perspective, not mine, and not necessarily the reality of it all. Cryptic may be incompetent in being able to maintain a reliable service, but they're not completely naive. They know the Foundry is giving them free content. Free work. If they thought it didn't bring them any value they wouldn't have started the Foundry back in the STO days. They know the Foundry is important to Neverwinter, but they don't really know the level of patience the UGC community has yet. So if we keep rolling over as if the Foundry is just a "side quest" (your words) then they will keep abusing that on their priority list.
I appreciate that you disagree. I don't have a problem with that. I'm not asking people to be silent, not remotely.
I'm offering people a way to remember on a personal level, when they become frustrated, that it's about money. That in some ways, it can be better not to be a target, because otherwise we'd likely have to start paying (but in reality, they'd have to fix the foundry before I'd truly pay to use it... and even then, that would only go so far).
I'm not personally devaluing anyone. I am pointing out financial considerations, so that some people might feel less frustrated on a personal level.
From a business perspective, a company should be called out on poor customer service. Regardless of how small the minority they are disrespecting.
My posts are NOT intended to say, "Suck it up and shut up, you're not important". They are intended only to remind people that it's not about a company trying to personally "sock it to you"; rather it is about a company prioritizing financially. And in fact, I've pointed out that there are likely people there, be they creators/writers, or devs... who are almost certainly sticking up for us.
I'm not devaluing us from the standpoint of GAMING. I'm reminding people that, financially speaking (and the money-crunchers ultimately run the show), we are not a priority because we are MONEY OUT, not MONEY IN. It's not about US, it's about money.
I get that this doesn't comfort you. I get that it you choose to feel insulted by it. I get that you think I am personally insulting YOU by pointing out that it's about financials. I am sorry that you feel that way. It still remains that, speaking from a purely business standpoint, the amount of money we COST versus what we MAKE them, is mitigated by them not making us a priority.
If we become a priority, it will cost them more than it will make them. Eventually, as pointed out by someone else, the others will quit. Then we'll likely become a priority... and it will probably start costing us. Not long after that, if many changes aren't made between then and now... the game will go belly-up; because we won't pay to use something that's essentially on the knife's edge of broken most of the time and broken all the rest of the time.
It's not about what value we give from a gaming perspective. I'm talking about sheer financial issues, because sheer financial issues are the focus of businesses.
Breaching the Swarm NW-DUXUHQWNP
Pick your side, take a stand, save--or kill--your former allies.
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elusivem00seMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 13Arc User
edited July 2013
Please check out the threads in the Bug Report forum here and here.
11:40 AM EST after maintenance and patch, still getting "Foundry Editing Not Allowed."
From Twitter - "Foundry editing remains offline, and we are working to resolve that ASAP!"
How about an explanation instead of a generic "ASAP" that we all know is BS, guys?
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cipher9nemoMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
I'm offering people a way to remember on a personal level, when they become frustrated, that it's about money.
But that is just a guess. How do you know the Foundry downtime and issues are just about money? None of us knows the real reasons, we can only guess at it. Because, that's right, Cryptic hasn't communicated with us on the downtime.
Throughout the rest of your post you keep wanting to "remind" us that this is about finances. Yet you're basing that on your own opinion or observations on the matter. So it puzzles me why you want to push that agenda as fact?
It's not about what value we give from a gaming perspective. I'm talking about sheer financial issues, because sheer financial issues are the focus of businesses.
And the funny things is that is what is wrong with most current business models.
I live 10 or so miles from where there used to be an engineering company world renowned for making diesel engines. One of their claims to fame is that one of their engines has been running non-stop powering a pump in a mine in (IIRC) part of North Africa for the last 25 years - I kid you not.
That company had been in existence for close on 100 years, their entire business model was about "quality of product".
Then they were bought out by another company, whose business model was about "quantity of profit", corners were cut, savings were made, company was down-sized to increase profitability. And then went under in less than 10 years.
As long as businesses let bean-counters tell them that "quantity of profit" is more important that "quality of product" then nothing will change.
I'll pay for a quality product, and when it eventually gives up I'll go back and pay again.
But nowadays I get to buy a <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> product that makes lots of profit, and when it eventually gives up I can't go back and buy one again, even if I were stupid enough to want to, because the company has gone bust.
Short-termism and a blind adherence to ever increasing profit-margins is not a sustainable business model; and it is the root cause of almost all economic instability in nearly all Western economies.
Get the product right, build customer loyalty and then you get a sustainable business model.
And the funny things is that is what is wrong with most current business models.
I live 10 or so miles from where there used to be an engineering company world renowned for making diesel engines. One of their claims to fame is that one of their engines has been running non-stop powering a pump in a mine in (IIRC) part of North Africa for the last 25 years - I kid you not.
That company had been in existence for close on 100 years, their entire business model was about "quality of product".
Then they were bought out by another company, whose business model was about "quantity of profit", corners were cut, savings were made, company was down-sized to increase profitability. And then went under in less than 10 years.
As long as businesses let bean-counters tell them that "quantity of profit" is more important that "quality of product" then nothing will change.
I'll pay for a quality product, and when it eventually gives up I'll go back and pay again.
But nowadays I get to buy a <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> product that makes lots of profit, and when it eventually gives up I can't go back and buy one again, even if I were stupid enough to want to, because the company has gone bust.
Short-termism and a blind adherence to ever increasing profit-margins is not a sustainable business model; and it is the root cause of almost all economic instability in nearly all Western economies.
Get the product right, build customer loyalty and then you get a sustainable business model.
All The Best
I agree with you more than 1,000%! It's a terrible business model because... customer satisfaction = more customers.
Sadly, however, it seems that the market these days is such that people will intentionally buy cheap. If there's a better product available that put forth the effort to make true quality, people will still buy the cheap stuff.
I make a point these days to buy from local businesspeople whenever possible--especially the ones who work hard to produce quality and to give good customer service.
Then again, as I stated, I don't think NW will last all that long. I think someone there (whoever pushed the Foundry through, for example), has a pretty decent idea what modern gamers want. Sadly, they are getting walked all over by money-crunchers. I smell doom for this game because of it. When you kick the people who know your client-base, don't be surprised when you end up with a defunct game in the end (or other product).
This game doesn't have enough end-game, and it is too linear. If they made it so that foundries could offer some worthwhile loot (and I KNOW that would be super hard), they would have their end-game and everything would change radically. It would become immediately sustainable!
But so long as they are making money off of "this group", they are going to turn their backs on the other.
I agree with you that it's a terrible business model. But it's THE business model of the modern age.
Breaching the Swarm NW-DUXUHQWNP
Pick your side, take a stand, save--or kill--your former allies.
0
Options
drnoesisMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
And the funny things is that is what is wrong with most current business models.
I live 10 or so miles from where there used to be an engineering company world renowned for making diesel engines. One of their claims to fame is that one of their engines has been running non-stop powering a pump in a mine in (IIRC) part of North Africa for the last 25 years - I kid you not.
That company had been in existence for close on 100 years, their entire business model was about "quality of product".
Then they were bought out by another company, whose business model was about "quantity of profit", corners were cut, savings were made, company was down-sized to increase profitability. And then went under in less than 10 years.
As long as businesses let bean-counters tell them that "quantity of profit" is more important that "quality of product" then nothing will change.
I'll pay for a quality product, and when it eventually gives up I'll go back and pay again.
But nowadays I get to buy a <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> product that makes lots of profit, and when it eventually gives up I can't go back and buy one again, even if I were stupid enough to want to, because the company has gone bust.
Short-termism and a blind adherence to ever increasing profit-margins is not a sustainable business model; and it is the root cause of almost all economic instability in nearly all Western economies.
Get the product right, build customer loyalty and then you get a sustainable business model.
All The Best
QFT... This needs to be stapled to the head of every business manager out there, chanted continually as a mantra, and made their own personal private philosophy until the day they expire.
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Options
zebularMember, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 15,270Community Moderator
edited July 2013
. . . . . Due to the amount is insulting being flung at staff members, I am closing this. Insulting of the company is okay, as long as it is constructive. Insulting Staff Members is never okay.
. . . . . I do apologize for staying for for 48 hours, despite feeling like a 10-ton weight was crushing down upon me, to wait around and keep you all updated. I am then sorry as well for no longer being able to stay awake and passing out for 12 hours (was finally able to get some decent sleep), so I wasn't able to bring you the latest update here in this thread when Dez posted it on the General Forum. I apologize for being human but I will not stand for anyone to insult any Staff Member, paid or not. It's in the rules and by posting here it's been agreed to. If you must complain about Staff Members, do so through the proper channels - which are through Private Messages or Support. It truly is that simple.
Foundry Editing is currently offline due to an issue with the server that the team is currently troubleshooting.
Our engineers are looking into this around the clock so that we can enable it again ASAP. At this time we do not have an ETA regarding when it will be available, but plan to continue investigating until a reliable solution is found.
Thank you for your patience while we work on this issue. We will keep you in the loop regarding progress!
. . . . . I would like to thank those who have provided constructive feedback, yes even the negative feedback, as this is greatly appreciated. Please continue to provide such constructive feedback in the sticky in the General Forum. Thanks!
Comments
Is it just me though or has this thread turned into a troll hunting, spamtastic, flame war?
What happened to the lovely friendly foundry chat community we had?
You're putting words in my mouth. Stop that!
Hammerfist Clan. Jump into the Night: NW-DMXWRYTAD
Based on the last week's level of incompetence I'm surprised most of them manage to find their way to work of a morning.
Oh, hang on...
That could be the problem.
All The Best
Looking For Reviews For Your Foundry Quest?
Drop By Scribe's Enclave & Meet Up With Volunteer Reviewers.
I appreciate that you disagree. I don't have a problem with that. I'm not asking people to be silent, not remotely.
I'm offering people a way to remember on a personal level, when they become frustrated, that it's about money. That in some ways, it can be better not to be a target, because otherwise we'd likely have to start paying (but in reality, they'd have to fix the foundry before I'd truly pay to use it... and even then, that would only go so far).
I'm not personally devaluing anyone. I am pointing out financial considerations, so that some people might feel less frustrated on a personal level.
From a business perspective, a company should be called out on poor customer service. Regardless of how small the minority they are disrespecting.
My posts are NOT intended to say, "Suck it up and shut up, you're not important". They are intended only to remind people that it's not about a company trying to personally "sock it to you"; rather it is about a company prioritizing financially. And in fact, I've pointed out that there are likely people there, be they creators/writers, or devs... who are almost certainly sticking up for us.
I'm not devaluing us from the standpoint of GAMING. I'm reminding people that, financially speaking (and the money-crunchers ultimately run the show), we are not a priority because we are MONEY OUT, not MONEY IN. It's not about US, it's about money.
I get that this doesn't comfort you. I get that it you choose to feel insulted by it. I get that you think I am personally insulting YOU by pointing out that it's about financials. I am sorry that you feel that way. It still remains that, speaking from a purely business standpoint, the amount of money we COST versus what we MAKE them, is mitigated by them not making us a priority.
If we become a priority, it will cost them more than it will make them. Eventually, as pointed out by someone else, the others will quit. Then we'll likely become a priority... and it will probably start costing us. Not long after that, if many changes aren't made between then and now... the game will go belly-up; because we won't pay to use something that's essentially on the knife's edge of broken most of the time and broken all the rest of the time.
It's not about what value we give from a gaming perspective. I'm talking about sheer financial issues, because sheer financial issues are the focus of businesses.
Pick your side, take a stand, save--or kill--your former allies.
11:40 AM EST after maintenance and patch, still getting "Foundry Editing Not Allowed."
From Twitter - "Foundry editing remains offline, and we are working to resolve that ASAP!"
How about an explanation instead of a generic "ASAP" that we all know is BS, guys?
I can appreciate that, thank you.
But that is just a guess. How do you know the Foundry downtime and issues are just about money? None of us knows the real reasons, we can only guess at it. Because, that's right, Cryptic hasn't communicated with us on the downtime.
Throughout the rest of your post you keep wanting to "remind" us that this is about finances. Yet you're basing that on your own opinion or observations on the matter. So it puzzles me why you want to push that agenda as fact?
Hammerfist Clan. Jump into the Night: NW-DMXWRYTAD
And the funny things is that is what is wrong with most current business models.
I live 10 or so miles from where there used to be an engineering company world renowned for making diesel engines. One of their claims to fame is that one of their engines has been running non-stop powering a pump in a mine in (IIRC) part of North Africa for the last 25 years - I kid you not.
That company had been in existence for close on 100 years, their entire business model was about "quality of product".
Then they were bought out by another company, whose business model was about "quantity of profit", corners were cut, savings were made, company was down-sized to increase profitability. And then went under in less than 10 years.
As long as businesses let bean-counters tell them that "quantity of profit" is more important that "quality of product" then nothing will change.
I'll pay for a quality product, and when it eventually gives up I'll go back and pay again.
But nowadays I get to buy a <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> product that makes lots of profit, and when it eventually gives up I can't go back and buy one again, even if I were stupid enough to want to, because the company has gone bust.
Short-termism and a blind adherence to ever increasing profit-margins is not a sustainable business model; and it is the root cause of almost all economic instability in nearly all Western economies.
Get the product right, build customer loyalty and then you get a sustainable business model.
All The Best
Looking For Reviews For Your Foundry Quest?
Drop By Scribe's Enclave & Meet Up With Volunteer Reviewers.
I agree with you more than 1,000%! It's a terrible business model because... customer satisfaction = more customers.
Sadly, however, it seems that the market these days is such that people will intentionally buy cheap. If there's a better product available that put forth the effort to make true quality, people will still buy the cheap stuff.
I make a point these days to buy from local businesspeople whenever possible--especially the ones who work hard to produce quality and to give good customer service.
Then again, as I stated, I don't think NW will last all that long. I think someone there (whoever pushed the Foundry through, for example), has a pretty decent idea what modern gamers want. Sadly, they are getting walked all over by money-crunchers. I smell doom for this game because of it. When you kick the people who know your client-base, don't be surprised when you end up with a defunct game in the end (or other product).
This game doesn't have enough end-game, and it is too linear. If they made it so that foundries could offer some worthwhile loot (and I KNOW that would be super hard), they would have their end-game and everything would change radically. It would become immediately sustainable!
But so long as they are making money off of "this group", they are going to turn their backs on the other.
I agree with you that it's a terrible business model. But it's THE business model of the modern age.
Pick your side, take a stand, save--or kill--your former allies.
QFT... This needs to be stapled to the head of every business manager out there, chanted continually as a mantra, and made their own personal private philosophy until the day they expire.
. . . . . I do apologize for staying for for 48 hours, despite feeling like a 10-ton weight was crushing down upon me, to wait around and keep you all updated. I am then sorry as well for no longer being able to stay awake and passing out for 12 hours (was finally able to get some decent sleep), so I wasn't able to bring you the latest update here in this thread when Dez posted it on the General Forum. I apologize for being human but I will not stand for anyone to insult any Staff Member, paid or not. It's in the rules and by posting here it's been agreed to. If you must complain about Staff Members, do so through the proper channels - which are through Private Messages or Support. It truly is that simple.
. . . . . I would like to thank those who have provided constructive feedback, yes even the negative feedback, as this is greatly appreciated. Please continue to provide such constructive feedback in the sticky in the General Forum. Thanks!
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