To add my 2 copper I might just point out that one cannot blame the authors for the taste of the players.
It's the same with songs, movies, books, games or whatever. If the crowd loves trash, then there's nothing one can do about it - xcept for giving them what they ask for
This. A thousand times this.
Everyone *****es about Reality TV shows, but if people didn't watch 'em, the networks wouldn't make 'em. End of story.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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ellindar1Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited June 2013
I'll throw in.
Having made both kinds I think you could possibly take something bad and turn it into a gain. While I agree with Kam's post maybe there's a way to use that system to your advantage as an author. I did what everyone of us did when putting out your first quests, 30 mins then 45 minute quests. That second one took me countless hours to create to get 75 plays. While I agree that getting those rare few who love the quest is the best reward it is frustrating for any author not to get an audience.
Took Chili's advice to make a 17 minute quest but put all the work into it I would have a full blown quest. Sure the story is shorter and its made as a daily, but the assets sit at 1482. Its at 1500 plays and rising every day with a 4.02 adjusted. With tons of comments about subscribing, can't wait for what's next, etc. So what can you take from it?
This is what I propose... take whatever longer quest you want to make and make a prologue to it. Put just as much effort into the prologue as you would your full blown quest. Introduce the story, hook the player and get your subscribers so that your full quest you've got players for. I don't think this is necessarily a bad thing, and here's my thoughts on why:
AUthors of books do this all the time. They write a prologue hoping it will get you hooked. Also, how many times would you want to start an hour long quest without knowing at least something about it or the author. Wouldn't it be much more appealing to you to play something you know won't take that long to get a taste of what the author is providing? I think we could use this as authors to 1. give the current player base what they want initially 2. build a list of subscribers 3. get the real quests you want to provide shown to more than the 50 odd people.
Its just an idea, and maybe it won't work, but the more I think about it the more I don't mind it. (rating system and catalog are still junk though and need to go... there's zero debate there)
I've told Nyghoma for weeks he needed to take his new prologue for gloomlight on the ship and turn it into just this. I really think it could work for a lot of longer quests like this.
Everyone *****es about Reality TV shows, but if people didn't watch 'em, the networks wouldn't make 'em. End of story.
That would be because 99,8% of all humans are stupid. Plain and simple. And the 0,2% that are not will be ignored in the hysteria of the ignorant. If Justin Bieber sells platinum it has nothing to do with skill or luck - it just means a million people are stupid as ****
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] The entire campaign can be found here:NWS-DQS27OINC
Individual quests:
1. Heeding the Call - NW-DMJCDZ5XJ
2. Bored of the Rings - NW-DFWE3XR6W
3. Draconian Ways - NW-DUNZEJG2J
4. When All is Said and Done... - Look at the picture
You know, I'm still debating whether I should split up my second mission into two shorter missions. Dupe the entire mission, delete second half from first and first half from second. Hrm.
How well does copying missions work?
Campaign: The Fenwick Cycle NWS-DKR9GB7KH
Wicks and Things: NW-DI4FMZRR4 : The Fenwick merchant family has lost a caravan! Can you help?
Beggar's Hollow: NW-DR6YG4J2L : Someone, or something, has stolen away many of the Fenwicks' children! Can you find out what happened to them?
Into the Fen Wood: NW-DL89DRG7B : Enter the heart of the forest. Can you discover the secret of the Fen Wood?
I'm a big fan of chopping up missions into 15-30 min chunks. But I don't usually have long chunks of time to play. Don't try to make each chapter an epic, make each chapter a chapter and let the campaign be the epic piece of work.
The problem I ran into is that someone eager to finish my mission fast can complete my first map in probably, oh, 5-10 mins (three required spider groups, then quickly run through the north). The second map, if you know the trick, can be done in a few minutes.
Most people? It's going to take 30 mins.
Hmm. Might be worth changing the first map to require actually fighting all the spiders. Hrrrrm.
Campaign: The Fenwick Cycle NWS-DKR9GB7KH
Wicks and Things: NW-DI4FMZRR4 : The Fenwick merchant family has lost a caravan! Can you help?
Beggar's Hollow: NW-DR6YG4J2L : Someone, or something, has stolen away many of the Fenwicks' children! Can you find out what happened to them?
Into the Fen Wood: NW-DL89DRG7B : Enter the heart of the forest. Can you discover the secret of the Fen Wood?
You know, I'm still debating whether I should split up my second mission into two shorter missions. Dupe the entire mission, delete second half from first and first half from second. Hrm.
How well does copying missions work?
Zahinder, I have promoted your second quest on here, I gave it five stars. Please don't split it up just to appease the materialistic masses. They don't care about the wonderful stories, characters, and environments authors create. They only care about AD. The authors exploiting this system to get plays are choosing to be a part of the problem, rather than part of the solution.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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xhritMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited June 2013
Different strokes for different folks. Why get mad that people like different things then you do?
Someone gave my quest a 1/5 stars because "You can't just have quests that are all story and nothing else".
Words are powerful. My story makes people cry.
"It would take me less then a day to make this quest, maybe a few hours ."
Mechanically, perhaps. You could reproduce the mechanics of my quest in a few hours, yes. But it is not the mechanics that are going to make people cry. The story is.
"Your quest was long and had like zero decorations"
Again, Decor is not what is going to make people cry. The story is.
You don't like story heavy quests that is fine. But why rate something based on personal preference as opposed to technical merit? That would be like giving a review for the latest madden "1/5 do not like sports". Just because you don't like a genre does not mean you cant judge it based on its merit.
I do not like comedy quests. Any quest that breaks lore, breaks the 4th wall, or breaks immersion I am never going to intentionally play. And if I accidentally play a comedy quest, I will remember and never play it again. But I am not going to 1 star every comedy quest I play. I can tell a good quest from a bad quest, and if the quest is mechanically good, then I will give it the star rating it deserved regardless of my personal bias.
Zahinder, I have promoted your second quest on here, I gave it five stars. Please don't split it up just to appease the materialistic masses. They don't care about the wonderful stories, characters, and environments authors create. They only care about AD. The authors exploiting this system to get plays are choosing to be a part of the problem, rather than part of the solution.
If they don't care, they're not going to care.
People who DO care have a lot of quite reasonable reasons to want shorter-length chunks, including time constraints, and unwillingness to 'risk' on someone they really don't know -- asking someone to devote an hour to do my quest is ... a lot to ask, when they could run 3-4 other missions instead.
Also, splitting it in half would not destroy the story or creativity -- if you are following the campaign, it would just add a small break instead of a loading screen.
It also would encourage people to try different sections multiple times, like the north forest -- instead of having to go through the entire first part before getting to the forest, you could just (say) jump to the forest again and try something different.
I will never sacrifice story and creativity to 'appease the materialistic masses,' but understanding the nature of the medium and audience is part of the onus on creators.
Campaign: The Fenwick Cycle NWS-DKR9GB7KH
Wicks and Things: NW-DI4FMZRR4 : The Fenwick merchant family has lost a caravan! Can you help?
Beggar's Hollow: NW-DR6YG4J2L : Someone, or something, has stolen away many of the Fenwicks' children! Can you find out what happened to them?
Into the Fen Wood: NW-DL89DRG7B : Enter the heart of the forest. Can you discover the secret of the Fen Wood?
The fact is that you can still make a beautiful and very impressive daily, it's all about effort. Some people will spend days fine tuning a room that people will spend 30 seconds in, others see it as a complete waste of time. Me personally, I won't leave a room until it completely captures the atmosphere that I'm trying to set, which is why it takes me ages to create my environments.
The fact is that you can still make a beautiful and very impressive daily, it's all about effort. Some people will spend days fine tuning a room that people will spend 30 seconds in, others see it as a complete waste of time. Me personally, I won't leave a room until it completely captures the atmosphere that I'm trying to set, which is why it takes me ages to create my environments.
Yes, but I don't like that authors are trying so hard to hit that 16-17 minute mark. It's definitely promoting quantity over quality.
I don't think you understand... I have ran YOUR quest about 5 times now and have enjoyed it and even left you comments/suggestions, and I'd rather do that quest over and over compared to the silly "I need to complete this as fast as I can" quests.
Perhaps, you should be more supportive in the work you put into it.
No I really do "Understand that is" I'm just trying to keep it light and fun because theirs nothing we can do about it
even if you had a perfect system "in your opinion" you cant force the majority of people to (Example) Like/ prefer Book over Movies... So sure the bulk of the game population are always going to up vote "Daily Quest farming maps" heck befor the did the wipe/ ban hammer on exploit maps those were getting some of the highest ratings -_-
Zahinder, I wouldn't go back and change what you have, my advice was more for going forward. Better to get more quests made and learn from what you did before, than to keep tweaking and changing existing quests.
What I meant was if you (anyone) are envisioning an hour long quest, don't cram it all into one quest. Find the breakpoints/cliffhangers and break it into 2-4 quests so it is more manageable for your players. People need breaks. I know I've gotten worn out on some hour+ quests and then I rushed through the end. I realize that is my issue, but I suspect there are other people like me. And besides, folks who want to play it all the way through in one go can just hop into the next quest and run with it.
Add to that the benefit of shorter missions get more plays, and it makes sense to me to do it.
I found that I got a lot of plays/replays from people using mine for their dailies. That drove my numbers up and got me on the front page for a while. Then other people saw it and tried it and found they liked the story. I suspect that group wrote more reviews while the first group mostly drove up my numbers. Ideally you get both (numbers and good reviews). But if you don't have people playing, it is harder to be noticed.
visigoth18 has a valid point. I still see exploit maps with names like "FASTEST XP EVAR!!! LOL" occasionally climb higher up on the New list than my quest before getting zapped by the mods.
I'm from Germany... and 90% of the foundry-quests I've played are utterly ********.
And, yeah... it's crazy: Most of em' got 4 stars. I'm depressed. What's going on with these people?
I put ~100 hours into my first quest yet. And I'm not done yet. All my love is flowing into this project.
I want real ROLEPLAY-stuff, not arcade-gaming. Deep and dirty!
I think too many hipsters are playing Neverwinter and all those other MMOs. Just a few of the players are pure nerdy fantasy-freaks who love the atmosphere of the game - not the loot or the items. The times have changed. Fantasy is no longer a romantic genre for obscure people like me - it's mainstream. And most of the things who are getting mainstream... uh... it's getting a little bit ******.
I love the foundry-editor and I love Neverwinter. It's sad that some folks are abusing all this stuff.
Well, I'd like more people to see what I've done. And there are already some natural breakpoints in the story.
For example, there are three maps in my second mission. End of the first map, you end up returning to town. There's no reason why I couldn't stop there, and pick it up on part 2 on the second map.
If it would require a lot of work to hack my mission into shorter bits... I wouldn't bother, yeah. But, hey. It already lends itself to it. (Although it's going to rather depend on how functional 'duplicate mission' is -- if it scrambles the dialog, then eff it.)
Now, I wouldn't do significant surgery on my mission or hugely compromise the story to do that, but... You know, writers of episodic media (TV, magazines, etc) have to do this sort of thing all the time. It's not unusual to expect us to do the same.
Campaign: The Fenwick Cycle NWS-DKR9GB7KH
Wicks and Things: NW-DI4FMZRR4 : The Fenwick merchant family has lost a caravan! Can you help?
Beggar's Hollow: NW-DR6YG4J2L : Someone, or something, has stolen away many of the Fenwicks' children! Can you find out what happened to them?
Into the Fen Wood: NW-DL89DRG7B : Enter the heart of the forest. Can you discover the secret of the Fen Wood?
0
maerwinMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited June 2013
The thing about average time is that it's horribly inaccurate for any quest with a bit more dialogue. Monsters usually cannot be skipped. Dialogue can.
Anyone who likes making dialogue is screwed if they try to make a 15min quest. Either they make a quest that is 15-20min for a normal player and can be spedrun in 7-8minutes and becomes unavailable for daily. Or, they add more combat, and the length climbs to 25-30 minutes for a normal player.
Now, I wouldn't do significant surgery on my mission or hugely compromise the story to do that, but... You know, writers of episodic media (TV, magazines, etc) have to do this sort of thing all the time. It's not unusual to expect us to do the same.
One of my favorite pieces of literature of all time is a work of fiction called 'Gunm'. The title means 'Gun Dream' in Japanese and was translated to English as 'Battle Angel Alita'.
Anyway, the first version of the story did not even feature the titular character at all. The author was trying to get the story published, and brought it to a publisher. The publisher said he could not publish anything without a strong female role somewhere in the story, so the author introduced the character Alita in a minor part. Everyone fell in love with the character, so much that the author re-wrote the entire story around her, giving her the central role.
Gunm is now one of the best selling manga series ever to be released in japan. James Cameron owns the rights to three feature length Battle Angel Alita movies, which he is allegedly making after he finishes Avatar.
So, what is the point I am trying to make?
Sometimes making artistic sacrifices to appeal to a wider audience makes the story better.
I’ve read this whole thread (a first for any forums I’ve been on) and I can see it from all sides.
First: I understand the players POV. There are times that I don’t have a lot of time and want to progress my character and a short Foundry quest is the right thing to do. Then there are the times that I have plenty of gaming time and want something more substantial, playing wise and a longer Foundry quest again is just the ticket.
Second: I see the issues with the Foundry Quest UI. IMO the selection panel UI is just horrible. It takes way too much time to find quests that I would like to run, whether long and involved or short and messy. The quests being displayed by average rating is for the birds and really needs to go.
Suggestions:
1: Break the Foundry quests up into two (at least) categories. T1F (Tier 1 Foundry) quests would be shorter based on playtime, just right for the Daily Foundry crowd. T2F quests would be much longer (based on average playtime) and harder to complete. Authors would have to choose what category their quests would be published into and if the average playtime for a quest drops below mins then the quest itself drops into the lower category.
2. Make the T2F quests count for multiple completions toward the daily Foundry quests. If I run a quest that when run correctly is at least 30 mins than it should count for at least 2 dailies and so forth up to 4 counted completions for 60 min quests. If you don’t encourage people to run longer and harder quests, then the audience for these quests will diminish and expire.
3. I would really like an option to run a randomly chosen Foundry quest. If you break them up into average play time as I suggested. There are time in which I would love to not know what I’m getting into when I step into a quest. This would also add to the re-playability of this game, and the discoveray of some diamond in the rough quest authors. In order to encourage people to use this option, I would give a flat AD award for completion of the randomly successfully selected quest. T1F’s would be considerably lower than T2F’s in rewarding AD but that is the trade off you make for running faster quests. There would have to be safeguards to ensure against exploiting but that I leave up to the Devs.
I am having a lot of fun with this game the Foundry creator as well; but the User Interfaces and documentation throughout the entire game need a lot of work. There are some very cool things you can do here in Neverwinter, but if I, the average (IMO) user, cannot find them quickly than I probably never will find them.
Stay Thirsty My Friends!
0
xhritMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Different strokes for different folks. Why get mad that people like different things then you do?
Someone gave my quest a 1/5 stars because "You can't just have quests that are all story and nothing else".
Words are powerful. My story makes people cry.
"It would take me less then a day to make this quest, maybe a few hours ."
Mechanically, perhaps. You could reproduce the mechanics of my quest in a few hours, yes. But it is not the mechanics that are going to make people cry. The story is.
"Your quest was long and had like zero decorations"
Again, Decor is not what is going to make people cry. The story is.
You don't like story heavy quests that is fine. But why rate something based on personal preference as opposed to technical merit? That would be like giving a review for the latest madden "1/5 do not like sports". Just because you don't like a genre does not mean you cant judge it based on its merit.
I do not like comedy quests. Any quest that breaks lore, breaks the 4th wall, or breaks immersion I am never going to intentionally play. And if I accidentally play a comedy quest, I will remember and never play it again. But I am not going to 1 star every comedy quest I play. I can tell a good quest from a bad quest, and if the quest is mechanically good, then I will give it the star rating it deserved regardless of my personal bias.
Sorry bud. I'm going to have to stick to my guns on this issue.
All story=incomplete quest. All hack 'n slash=incomplete quest.
This is a video game, not an "e-book". Just imagine releasing a movie that's just a compilation of fight scenes in a bare, white room with the same 5 guys for 45 minutes. Well received by critics? Doubt it.
On the flip side, imagine a movie released that plays out in a "black-box" theater. One guy siting in a chair, in an empty room, narrating a story. Well received? See above.
Look. Cryptic has given us a pretty robust toolset to navigate peoples imagination. Some of these story based quest wouldn't have to tell so much story if the author just dedicated some time on the environments and the encounters. Ever hear the phrase "a picture can tell a thousand words"? Heed the dogma.
Sometimes bad reviews are a necessary evil to make an author grow. But it should never be used as a revenge tool.
NW-DT4OV7EXH
Every time they idiot-proof something...they make better idiots.
We're free to make any style mission we want, and to different tastes we want. I don't like jumping puzzles, so I'm not going to go in and 1-star someone's jumping puzzle mission (though I might complain if that wasn't clear from the description).
I'm not going to complain that Gloomlight is too long and not suitable for solo characters, because it's clear that's the type of quest it is.
I say bring on the no-combat story missions. If you don't like it, go play something else.
As for pacing, yeah... the variance between 'ignore all dialog' and 'reads everything' can be annoying. I aim to have 'ignore all dialog' clocking in around 15 mins and 'read most dialog, do some optional stuff' at 30 mins. I think that's... as good as you're going to get.
Campaign: The Fenwick Cycle NWS-DKR9GB7KH
Wicks and Things: NW-DI4FMZRR4 : The Fenwick merchant family has lost a caravan! Can you help?
Beggar's Hollow: NW-DR6YG4J2L : Someone, or something, has stolen away many of the Fenwicks' children! Can you find out what happened to them?
Into the Fen Wood: NW-DL89DRG7B : Enter the heart of the forest. Can you discover the secret of the Fen Wood?
Suggestions: 1: Break the Foundry quests up into two (at least) categories. T1F (Tier 1 Foundry) quests would be shorter based on playtime, just right for the Daily Foundry crowd. T2F quests would be much longer (based on average playtime) and harder to complete. Authors would have to choose what category their quests would be published into and if the average playtime for a quest drops below mins then the quest itself drops into the lower category.
Second: I see the issues with the Foundry Quest UI.
I agree the interface/ search function and way quest are organized is/are <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> "we need [Cryptic] chosen tags/ categories. like #Story, #Combat etc...
If I run a quest that when run correctly is at least 30 mins
How do you force "Run Correctly" without making your quest so linear, "Hand holding" it's kind of unlikly that you can make a quest for those who wish to read all the dialogue and figure out the story and still expect the others who are just gonna speed clear it for the Daily Quest.
at least 30 mins than it should count for at least 2 dailies and so forth up to 4 counted completions for 60 min quests.
I would love to see a system something like this (what ever set length "15m" = Daily) then anything double or triple that would count towards double or triple Quest completions. "All tho its kinda Bull that they changed it from needing to only run one to now you have to run two quest"
I believe its Cryptics job to fix this issue. Cryptic has the power to change daily durations and the power to spotlight/feature GOOD quest that aren't just based on popularity for finishing dailies. Fortunately, if you look at the best list there's quite a few good, non-daily quest that have rose to the top.
I'm not in game but, off the top of my head, Bonderleaf's Thorough Aggerator, Nightmare on Market street, Ravenloft, Necropolis of Nightmare, Return to the Void, Assassin Chronicles, etc.. are all over 30 minutes an are all fully fleshed out quests at the top.
NW-DT4OV7EXH
Every time they idiot-proof something...they make better idiots.
Comments
This. A thousand times this.
Everyone *****es about Reality TV shows, but if people didn't watch 'em, the networks wouldn't make 'em. End of story.
Having made both kinds I think you could possibly take something bad and turn it into a gain. While I agree with Kam's post maybe there's a way to use that system to your advantage as an author. I did what everyone of us did when putting out your first quests, 30 mins then 45 minute quests. That second one took me countless hours to create to get 75 plays. While I agree that getting those rare few who love the quest is the best reward it is frustrating for any author not to get an audience.
Took Chili's advice to make a 17 minute quest but put all the work into it I would have a full blown quest. Sure the story is shorter and its made as a daily, but the assets sit at 1482. Its at 1500 plays and rising every day with a 4.02 adjusted. With tons of comments about subscribing, can't wait for what's next, etc. So what can you take from it?
This is what I propose... take whatever longer quest you want to make and make a prologue to it. Put just as much effort into the prologue as you would your full blown quest. Introduce the story, hook the player and get your subscribers so that your full quest you've got players for. I don't think this is necessarily a bad thing, and here's my thoughts on why:
AUthors of books do this all the time. They write a prologue hoping it will get you hooked. Also, how many times would you want to start an hour long quest without knowing at least something about it or the author. Wouldn't it be much more appealing to you to play something you know won't take that long to get a taste of what the author is providing? I think we could use this as authors to 1. give the current player base what they want initially 2. build a list of subscribers 3. get the real quests you want to provide shown to more than the 50 odd people.
Its just an idea, and maybe it won't work, but the more I think about it the more I don't mind it. (rating system and catalog are still junk though and need to go... there's zero debate there)
I've told Nyghoma for weeks he needed to take his new prologue for gloomlight on the ship and turn it into just this. I really think it could work for a lot of longer quests like this.
That would be because 99,8% of all humans are stupid. Plain and simple. And the 0,2% that are not will be ignored in the hysteria of the ignorant. If Justin Bieber sells platinum it has nothing to do with skill or luck - it just means a million people are stupid as ****
The entire campaign can be found here: NWS-DQS27OINC
Individual quests:
1. Heeding the Call - NW-DMJCDZ5XJ
2. Bored of the Rings - NW-DFWE3XR6W
3. Draconian Ways - NW-DUNZEJG2J
4. When All is Said and Done... - Look at the picture
How well does copying missions work?
Wicks and Things: NW-DI4FMZRR4 : The Fenwick merchant family has lost a caravan! Can you help?
Beggar's Hollow: NW-DR6YG4J2L : Someone, or something, has stolen away many of the Fenwicks' children! Can you find out what happened to them?
Into the Fen Wood: NW-DL89DRG7B : Enter the heart of the forest. Can you discover the secret of the Fen Wood?
Most people? It's going to take 30 mins.
Hmm. Might be worth changing the first map to require actually fighting all the spiders. Hrrrrm.
Wicks and Things: NW-DI4FMZRR4 : The Fenwick merchant family has lost a caravan! Can you help?
Beggar's Hollow: NW-DR6YG4J2L : Someone, or something, has stolen away many of the Fenwicks' children! Can you find out what happened to them?
Into the Fen Wood: NW-DL89DRG7B : Enter the heart of the forest. Can you discover the secret of the Fen Wood?
Zahinder, I have promoted your second quest on here, I gave it five stars. Please don't split it up just to appease the materialistic masses. They don't care about the wonderful stories, characters, and environments authors create. They only care about AD. The authors exploiting this system to get plays are choosing to be a part of the problem, rather than part of the solution.
Someone gave my quest a 1/5 stars because "You can't just have quests that are all story and nothing else".
Words are powerful. My story makes people cry.
"It would take me less then a day to make this quest, maybe a few hours ."
Mechanically, perhaps. You could reproduce the mechanics of my quest in a few hours, yes. But it is not the mechanics that are going to make people cry. The story is.
"Your quest was long and had like zero decorations"
Again, Decor is not what is going to make people cry. The story is.
You don't like story heavy quests that is fine. But why rate something based on personal preference as opposed to technical merit? That would be like giving a review for the latest madden "1/5 do not like sports". Just because you don't like a genre does not mean you cant judge it based on its merit.
I do not like comedy quests. Any quest that breaks lore, breaks the 4th wall, or breaks immersion I am never going to intentionally play. And if I accidentally play a comedy quest, I will remember and never play it again. But I am not going to 1 star every comedy quest I play. I can tell a good quest from a bad quest, and if the quest is mechanically good, then I will give it the star rating it deserved regardless of my personal bias.
Feast of the Moon | Rising of the Dark | Shadow of the World | Everdark
If they don't care, they're not going to care.
People who DO care have a lot of quite reasonable reasons to want shorter-length chunks, including time constraints, and unwillingness to 'risk' on someone they really don't know -- asking someone to devote an hour to do my quest is ... a lot to ask, when they could run 3-4 other missions instead.
Also, splitting it in half would not destroy the story or creativity -- if you are following the campaign, it would just add a small break instead of a loading screen.
It also would encourage people to try different sections multiple times, like the north forest -- instead of having to go through the entire first part before getting to the forest, you could just (say) jump to the forest again and try something different.
I will never sacrifice story and creativity to 'appease the materialistic masses,' but understanding the nature of the medium and audience is part of the onus on creators.
Wicks and Things: NW-DI4FMZRR4 : The Fenwick merchant family has lost a caravan! Can you help?
Beggar's Hollow: NW-DR6YG4J2L : Someone, or something, has stolen away many of the Fenwicks' children! Can you find out what happened to them?
Into the Fen Wood: NW-DL89DRG7B : Enter the heart of the forest. Can you discover the secret of the Fen Wood?
'hey, here's a great mission... ok, these guys are running it a lot. ... dang it, 13 min avg time???'
Wicks and Things: NW-DI4FMZRR4 : The Fenwick merchant family has lost a caravan! Can you help?
Beggar's Hollow: NW-DR6YG4J2L : Someone, or something, has stolen away many of the Fenwicks' children! Can you find out what happened to them?
Into the Fen Wood: NW-DL89DRG7B : Enter the heart of the forest. Can you discover the secret of the Fen Wood?
Yes, but I don't like that authors are trying so hard to hit that 16-17 minute mark. It's definitely promoting quantity over quality.
No I really do "Understand that is" I'm just trying to keep it light and fun
even if you had a perfect system "in your opinion" you cant force the majority of people to (Example) Like/ prefer Book over Movies... So sure the bulk of the game population are always going to up vote "Daily Quest farming maps" heck befor the did the wipe/ ban hammer on exploit maps those were getting some of the highest ratings -_-
seriously it's never going to be perfect.
oh and p.s. thanks for the complement :]
What I meant was if you (anyone) are envisioning an hour long quest, don't cram it all into one quest. Find the breakpoints/cliffhangers and break it into 2-4 quests so it is more manageable for your players. People need breaks. I know I've gotten worn out on some hour+ quests and then I rushed through the end. I realize that is my issue, but I suspect there are other people like me. And besides, folks who want to play it all the way through in one go can just hop into the next quest and run with it.
Add to that the benefit of shorter missions get more plays, and it makes sense to me to do it.
I found that I got a lot of plays/replays from people using mine for their dailies. That drove my numbers up and got me on the front page for a while. Then other people saw it and tried it and found they liked the story. I suspect that group wrote more reviews while the first group mostly drove up my numbers. Ideally you get both (numbers and good reviews). But if you don't have people playing, it is harder to be noticed.
And, yeah... it's crazy: Most of em' got 4 stars. I'm depressed. What's going on with these people?
I put ~100 hours into my first quest yet. And I'm not done yet. All my love is flowing into this project.
I want real ROLEPLAY-stuff, not arcade-gaming. Deep and dirty!
I think too many hipsters are playing Neverwinter and all those other MMOs. Just a few of the players are pure nerdy fantasy-freaks who love the atmosphere of the game - not the loot or the items. The times have changed. Fantasy is no longer a romantic genre for obscure people like me - it's mainstream. And most of the things who are getting mainstream... uh... it's getting a little bit ******.
I love the foundry-editor and I love Neverwinter. It's sad that some folks are abusing all this stuff.
A CURIOUS DISAPPEARANCE by Sphecida: NW-DDLEOFL2Q
A CRY UNANSWERED by obsidianw0lf: NW-DGNBAX3RD
SIEGEBREAKER by ash4all: NW-DGDPWV2U5
For example, there are three maps in my second mission. End of the first map, you end up returning to town. There's no reason why I couldn't stop there, and pick it up on part 2 on the second map.
If it would require a lot of work to hack my mission into shorter bits... I wouldn't bother, yeah. But, hey. It already lends itself to it. (Although it's going to rather depend on how functional 'duplicate mission' is -- if it scrambles the dialog, then eff it.)
Now, I wouldn't do significant surgery on my mission or hugely compromise the story to do that, but... You know, writers of episodic media (TV, magazines, etc) have to do this sort of thing all the time. It's not unusual to expect us to do the same.
Wicks and Things: NW-DI4FMZRR4 : The Fenwick merchant family has lost a caravan! Can you help?
Beggar's Hollow: NW-DR6YG4J2L : Someone, or something, has stolen away many of the Fenwicks' children! Can you find out what happened to them?
Into the Fen Wood: NW-DL89DRG7B : Enter the heart of the forest. Can you discover the secret of the Fen Wood?
Anyone who likes making dialogue is screwed if they try to make a 15min quest. Either they make a quest that is 15-20min for a normal player and can be spedrun in 7-8minutes and becomes unavailable for daily. Or, they add more combat, and the length climbs to 25-30 minutes for a normal player.
NW-DMFGWPBN3 The Lost City - Review Thread
from my experience, it works perfectly. the only time I've had trouble is "Copy Map" wile in the Foundry editor
One of my favorite pieces of literature of all time is a work of fiction called 'Gunm'. The title means 'Gun Dream' in Japanese and was translated to English as 'Battle Angel Alita'.
Anyway, the first version of the story did not even feature the titular character at all. The author was trying to get the story published, and brought it to a publisher. The publisher said he could not publish anything without a strong female role somewhere in the story, so the author introduced the character Alita in a minor part. Everyone fell in love with the character, so much that the author re-wrote the entire story around her, giving her the central role.
Gunm is now one of the best selling manga series ever to be released in japan. James Cameron owns the rights to three feature length Battle Angel Alita movies, which he is allegedly making after he finishes Avatar.
So, what is the point I am trying to make?
Sometimes making artistic sacrifices to appeal to a wider audience makes the story better.
Feast of the Moon | Rising of the Dark | Shadow of the World | Everdark
well I don't know about that... It defiantly can make it more "Popular"
Imagine how cool gunm would be without Alita.
Doc Ido, as the main character.
Point proven.
Feast of the Moon | Rising of the Dark | Shadow of the World | Everdark
Darn, if only I could add them into my Quest! >D
First: I understand the players POV. There are times that I don’t have a lot of time and want to progress my character and a short Foundry quest is the right thing to do. Then there are the times that I have plenty of gaming time and want something more substantial, playing wise and a longer Foundry quest again is just the ticket.
Second: I see the issues with the Foundry Quest UI. IMO the selection panel UI is just horrible. It takes way too much time to find quests that I would like to run, whether long and involved or short and messy. The quests being displayed by average rating is for the birds and really needs to go.
Suggestions:
1: Break the Foundry quests up into two (at least) categories. T1F (Tier 1 Foundry) quests would be shorter based on playtime, just right for the Daily Foundry crowd. T2F quests would be much longer (based on average playtime) and harder to complete. Authors would have to choose what category their quests would be published into and if the average playtime for a quest drops below mins then the quest itself drops into the lower category.
2. Make the T2F quests count for multiple completions toward the daily Foundry quests. If I run a quest that when run correctly is at least 30 mins than it should count for at least 2 dailies and so forth up to 4 counted completions for 60 min quests. If you don’t encourage people to run longer and harder quests, then the audience for these quests will diminish and expire.
3. I would really like an option to run a randomly chosen Foundry quest. If you break them up into average play time as I suggested. There are time in which I would love to not know what I’m getting into when I step into a quest. This would also add to the re-playability of this game, and the discoveray of some diamond in the rough quest authors. In order to encourage people to use this option, I would give a flat AD award for completion of the randomly successfully selected quest. T1F’s would be considerably lower than T2F’s in rewarding AD but that is the trade off you make for running faster quests. There would have to be safeguards to ensure against exploiting but that I leave up to the Devs.
I am having a lot of fun with this game the Foundry creator as well; but the User Interfaces and documentation throughout the entire game need a lot of work. There are some very cool things you can do here in Neverwinter, but if I, the average (IMO) user, cannot find them quickly than I probably never will find them.
Stay Thirsty My Friends!
That is why everyone likes alita so much.... because she is so hot.
Seriously? If that was true then Studio CLAMP would have the highest quality stories ever created.
Feast of the Moon | Rising of the Dark | Shadow of the World | Everdark
Sorry bud. I'm going to have to stick to my guns on this issue.
All story=incomplete quest. All hack 'n slash=incomplete quest.
This is a video game, not an "e-book". Just imagine releasing a movie that's just a compilation of fight scenes in a bare, white room with the same 5 guys for 45 minutes. Well received by critics? Doubt it.
On the flip side, imagine a movie released that plays out in a "black-box" theater. One guy siting in a chair, in an empty room, narrating a story. Well received? See above.
Look. Cryptic has given us a pretty robust toolset to navigate peoples imagination. Some of these story based quest wouldn't have to tell so much story if the author just dedicated some time on the environments and the encounters. Ever hear the phrase "a picture can tell a thousand words"? Heed the dogma.
Sometimes bad reviews are a necessary evil to make an author grow. But it should never be used as a revenge tool.
Every time they idiot-proof something...they make better idiots.
I'm not going to complain that Gloomlight is too long and not suitable for solo characters, because it's clear that's the type of quest it is.
I say bring on the no-combat story missions. If you don't like it, go play something else.
As for pacing, yeah... the variance between 'ignore all dialog' and 'reads everything' can be annoying. I aim to have 'ignore all dialog' clocking in around 15 mins and 'read most dialog, do some optional stuff' at 30 mins. I think that's... as good as you're going to get.
Wicks and Things: NW-DI4FMZRR4 : The Fenwick merchant family has lost a caravan! Can you help?
Beggar's Hollow: NW-DR6YG4J2L : Someone, or something, has stolen away many of the Fenwicks' children! Can you find out what happened to them?
Into the Fen Wood: NW-DL89DRG7B : Enter the heart of the forest. Can you discover the secret of the Fen Wood?
I agree the interface/ search function and way quest are organized is/are <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> "we need [Cryptic] chosen tags/ categories. like #Story, #Combat etc...
How do you force "Run Correctly" without making your quest so linear, "Hand holding" it's kind of unlikly that you can make a quest for those who wish to read all the dialogue and figure out the story and still expect the others who are just gonna speed clear it for the Daily Quest.
I would love to see a system something like this (what ever set length "15m" = Daily) then anything double or triple that would count towards double or triple Quest completions. "All tho its kinda Bull that they changed it from needing to only run one to now you have to run two quest"
I think this is one of the Biggest problems with the whole setup...
>.< Im out of time and need to get back to work, been fun. ttyl
I believe its Cryptics job to fix this issue. Cryptic has the power to change daily durations and the power to spotlight/feature GOOD quest that aren't just based on popularity for finishing dailies. Fortunately, if you look at the best list there's quite a few good, non-daily quest that have rose to the top.
I'm not in game but, off the top of my head, Bonderleaf's Thorough Aggerator, Nightmare on Market street, Ravenloft, Necropolis of Nightmare, Return to the Void, Assassin Chronicles, etc.. are all over 30 minutes an are all fully fleshed out quests at the top.
Every time they idiot-proof something...they make better idiots.