i've never left a game, but i have gone afk or just sat in spawn a few times to get it over quicker.
what do you expect? I'm only there for the daily anyway - glory? lol who cares, I bought everything you can with glory, including the @#$ty pet, and still have 20k in the bank...
so what do you want me to do when the game starts 4 v 5 (or worse..) because someone didn't teleport to the zone (FIX THIS @#$@# BUG ALREADY) or when someone quits and/or you're just getting facerolled by the other team anyway? there's only so many times I can run into battle, fire off 1 or 2 shots, then get stunlocked by the other team and 2-3 shot dead every time. what fun is that? so I sit in spawn til the game is over, collect my AD and give up pvp until the next daily...
also if nobody mentioned yet.... um this "leaver" thing is going to be even worse in Gauntlyasdfasdf...whatever.
if you haven't watched the preview, there are 3 rounds, the first and last are PvE, the middle is PvP. the winner of the first PvE round gets a buff for the next PvP round, making it even easier to beat a team that.. they just beat... and then the winner of the PvP round goes on to enter a T2 dungeon, the loser gets a T1 dungeon. in case you can't spot the flaws with this.... I'm sure that almost nobody will stick around for the T1 dungeon, and most losing teams will probably quit after the 1st round - or certainly after a couple minutes of the PvP round if it looks certain that they will lose.
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bolcien1Member, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited June 2013
this thread is TL;DR for me but I do have the jist of this thread though. A middle ground for this could be.
1) allow players to drop a group while the timer is counting down w/o penalty. It will allow us to see who is bugged/botted and get out before things are bad.
2) if the game has already started and a player drops then that player can't requeue for a PvP event untill the event they dropped is finished.
Reasoning behind this. number 1 allows us to see our team and not be penalized if it's full of bots. and number 2 is so that it does punish those who drop. now I know ya'll will say what if we have a real life emergency or something. well if you have an emergency in Real life, I doubt you'll get back to the computer before the match is over and then can go on your merry way with another pvp queue. (false alarms not included). as for a Disconnect, should allow for a 2 minute window before getting kicked by the party leader.
i've never left a game, but i have gone afk or just sat in spawn a few times to get it over quicker...
Curioser and curioser. You have never left a game but aren’t you doing the very same thing as someone who does leave a game? Are you not stranding the rest of the team with a non-operable spot? If it has the same effect, is it the same thing?
So by the aforementioned logic we are to brand you a cheater and go through the appropriate channels, is that right? Not coming out to get farmed is, by our accepted definition, cheating, yes?
*camp loudspeaker * Failing to report for your beating will result in your suspension… then in further beating.
Is this what you meant, Andre? I suppose this is your chance to make a specific polemic directly to the source.
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kristingraveMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
also if nobody mentioned yet.... um this "leaver" thing is going to be even worse in Gauntlyasdfasdf...whatever.
if you haven't watched the preview, there are 3 rounds, the first and last are PvE, the middle is PvP. the winner of the first PvE round gets a buff for the next PvP round, making it even easier to beat a team that.. they just beat... and then the winner of the PvP round goes on to enter a T2 dungeon, the loser gets a T1 dungeon. in case you can't spot the flaws with this.... I'm sure that almost nobody will stick around for the T1 dungeon, and most losing teams will probably quit after the 1st round - or certainly after a couple minutes of the PvP round if it looks certain that they will lose.
Yep. This is the reason that I will probably only do 20v20 once then forget about it. Since there are no special rewards in there, I would rather run a 5 man T2 then a 20v20 that may take hours on end.
Lift me up.. Panda@kristingrave - CW - Dragon
Death@healxyou - DC - Dragon
To me this is an interesting sentiment and begs the question that no one seems to be asking.
Why did he or she leave?
What prompted the leaver to leave? Try to seriously consider that because it is rather the key to all this I believe.
Were they mistreated as youngsters and taught the cold hard truths of the street, growing up loveless and hardened; thus made into bad people who cheat just to do it?
Or maybe they see something that intimates they don’t have a chance in this match?
Perhaps they want a shot at a more favorable team make up or they recognize the opposition as a premade.
Perhaps they see it as a coin flip anyway and the whole thing is basically decided in the queuing (heh, I said Qing) process, getting a bad result now they opt to try again.
But there is a reason for it. Address that reason and you cure the symptom. Slap a penalty on it and you just invite a new symptom.
So your saying run a mental evaluation on players before they que for pvp? i dont get your point..
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kristingraveMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Curioser and curioser. You have never left a game but aren’t you doing the very same thing as someone who does leave a game? Are you not stranding the rest of the team with a non-operable spot? If it has the same effect, is it the same thing?
So by the aforementioned logic we are to brand you a cheater and go through the appropriate channels, is that right? Not coming out to get farmed is, by our accepted definition, cheating, yes?
*camp loudspeaker * Failing to report for your beating will result in your suspension… then in further beating.
Is this what you meant, Andre? I suppose this is your chance to make a specific polemic directly to the source.
They meant they afk it if there all ready loosing badly.
I do the same when it is something like 300-400 on our side against 900 points. What's the point of going out to get killed then when your going to loose regardless? Might as well run around the top or stand by camp then possibly get killed at the last moment then spawn to town dead and have to waste an injury kit.
Lift me up.. Panda@kristingrave - CW - Dragon
Death@healxyou - DC - Dragon
So your saying run a mental evaluation on players before they que for pvp? i dont get your point..
Ahh no, not so much. I was addressing the developers and other interested parties really and making the point that understanding why a thing occurs will help you develop a solution much better than “You leave…get club to head…ugh”.
They meant they afk it if there all ready loosing badly.
I do the same when it is something like 300-400 on our side against 900 points. What's the point of going out to get killed then when your going to loose regardless? Might as well run around the top or stand by camp then possibly get killed at the last moment then spawn to town dead and have to waste an injury kit.
Revelations all around. I am sorry that I have nothing like this to share. I did not come to this meeting prepared.
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kristingraveMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited June 2013
An annoying solution to PvP bots: make everyone type something random out before each match, that has a random generator kinda the same thing that sites use to prevent most bots. I could tell you, it would be annoying as all hell to program a code line to understand the text then type it out, just for a lousy bot. That way who ever does program it out of pure boredom or madness will more then likely set it as a buy product, that way less kiddies go out there and get it for free. Less bots all together. Can't ever stop them all, but can stop a huge stupid majority of them.
Lift me up.. Panda@kristingrave - CW - Dragon
Death@healxyou - DC - Dragon
An annoying solution to PvP bots: make everyone type something random out before each match, that has a random generator kinda the same thing that sites use to prevent most bots.
Like a Captcha. That too is a little bit genius!
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kristingraveMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Yes Captcha, couldn't think of the name of it so save my life.
Lift me up.. Panda@kristingrave - CW - Dragon
Death@healxyou - DC - Dragon
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ambisinisterrMember, Neverwinter ModeratorPosts: 10,462Community Moderator
edited June 2013
Bots have actually become rather good at captcha's, or so I hear.
I've suggested them in other games before and developers have always responded they aren't as effective as one might think...but then again they could just be saying that to cover for the other reason:
People hate captcha's and while die-hard legit players, like myself, would gladly deal with capcha's to deal with bots, it could drive players away and thus devs look for less extreme solutions.
Who knows though. It's simply what I have heard from developers on other games. It's an obvious solution they all refuse to add in. *shrugs*
no they should come to your house kick your dog and key your car!
my god people it's just a game.
going afk is cheating now? LOL good luck with that.
15 mins would be ok though. ORRRR make it possible for replacement players to join late. (that and fix the #$@# bug where you don't get teleported to zone). if they did these things there would be NO reason for a "leaver" penalty.
1) the leader will not kick bots
2) the leader IS a bot
3) it's 3v5 or 4v5
Thankfully, I'm leader most of the time it seems...so #1 and #2 are easily resolved (most of the time).
I do not leave just because my team is losing. If all players are actually human and are playing, then it's a fun game, regardless of the outcome. That doesn't mean that I will participate in a match that is fundamental borked hoever.
I play to have fun and be competitive, not be frustrated at a broken mechanic that to me, seems relatively easy to fix. If I'm penalized by having to wait for X minutes so be it. Although, one work around if this is the case (that me leaving a broken system is focused upon instead of what is broke: bots/system not adding players as it should), then I suppose I will just sit in camp and read a book...pressing space bar every few mins or so.
YOU...nor Cryptic...gets to punish me for having to deal with idiot bots or a broken mechanic (not filling team).
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kristingraveMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Bots have actually become rather good at captcha's, or so I hear.
I've suggested them in other games before and developers have always responded they aren't as effective as one might think...but then again they could just be saying that to cover for the other reason:
People hate captcha's and while die-hard legit players, like myself, would gladly deal with capcha's to deal with bots, it could drive players away and thus devs look for less extreme solutions.
Who knows though. It's simply what I have heard from developers on other games. It's an obvious solution they all refuse to add in. *shrugs*
I know, it typically gets ignored in other games as well.
Being a former coding junky, at least 3 years back it was a pain to program a simple bot to go around a Captcha of any form. Browser based is easier then in game based where things are programmed of seconds to keep the bot moving. A text based bot (the ones that spam chat) could get around it simpler, then one actually doing other tasks within timing. So honestly when devs refuse to put something like that in a game i see it as a laziness on their part. Make it so that it comes up once every 4 runs for an IP, that way it's not a constant annoyance to legit players most of whom only do pvp for a daily (4 times or 2 if both are wins). They wouldn't have to see it more then once per entering a day. That and if it's not a constant it would set bots off further due to any server lag or hickup could send the bot to a non working condition once it misses the Captcha once.
Lift me up.. Panda@kristingrave - CW - Dragon
Death@healxyou - DC - Dragon
The solution to pvp bots is simple the reason they are doing it is to farm glory and sell pvp gear for AD. Just make pvp gear bound on account (transferrable to other characters on the same account). Problem solved.
In the mean time the high glory reward for losing is what causes so many players to AFK and supplying bots with excessive amounts of Astral Diamonds. Like it or not the system was completely over-rewarding to the losing team.
They are already rampantly leaving to begin with. Bottom line is PvPers are known for rage quitting for losing and every PvP Game has adequate punishments for it. The fact it is missing here was a problem to begin with.
Rewarding for staying rewards bots and AFKers.
Missing penalties for leavers is only a tiny part of the problem. Poor queuing systems and poor match making systems are the real issue.
If you are being matched up 1, 2, or even 3 vs 5 then it is a failure of the game. No one should be forced to spend time on that sort of situation.
idk about PvP so if 1 team leaving the game, is the other team win by default or the match is canceled?
if the win by default then winning team should not have the problem, but in other case, I believe with so much reducing reward the PvP losing team, some people will chose to leave, get penalty rather than let the winning team get the reward. conclusion, lose-lose is chosen rather than win-lose if win-win is not available. but then again, if leaving means the match canceled
People leaving arent "legit" players, they are quitters. A leave penalty would push them to endure even if they like to take the easy road out. This would inturn make most of those people better player, since they wouldnt fight in only winning games.
Without a penalty quitters will just match jump till they find a winning game and getting free glory, not any better than bots or afkers IMO.
Or they could just force people to stay in the match and give them no option to leave after the gates open.
Some form of penalty is needed for your so called "legit" *cough*quitters*cough* players.
It will simply penalise the people who get stuck with a bot or afk. Just finished a game. We had one afk disconnect right from the start so now its 5v4
We played hard and had a a commanding kills vs advantage but that extra person kept capping. But we persisted dragging the game out making it a challenge for both teams.
So what would i do in the future if i recieved nothing for my efforts.
1. I would premade and organise in trade thus making trade even more annoying.
2. If i pugged and knew i would lose due to afk bot etc i would leave and start over. why extend the pain.
3. If i pugged and knew i would lose and had a leaver penalty i would afk to get it over faster.
As most players realised you had to pug to win it would force the casual player out.
It is not fair on the players that the game company punishes the people who dont do anything wrong. Right now you can get a non premade pvp match is less than a minute. That will change.
Fyi i have my headhunter title and i win far more games pugging than not.
In the mean time the high glory reward for losing is what causes so many players to AFK and supplying bots with excessive amounts of Astral Diamonds. Like it or not the system was completely over-rewarding to the losing team.
They are already rampantly leaving to begin with. Bottom line is PvPers are known for rage quitting for losing and every PvP Game
has adequate punishments for it. The fact it is missing here was a problem to begin with.
Rewarding for staying rewards bots and AFKers.
It is a cheap way to fix the issue with botting. umm why not added an auto kick for botting?
more cheap fixes and excuses from F2P titles. meh I will wait for the next update then I will hit the BIG door.
Missing penalties for leavers is only a tiny part of the problem.
It's not part of the problem. People leaving is just a symptom, and penalties for leaving don't address the cause: the reason why people leave.
If someone leaves, it means that for whatever reason they are not enjoying themselves. Enjoying oneself is a pretty important thing in a video game. Trying to force them to stay in spite of them not having fun cannot have positive results. It's a negative action and will have negative re-actions. People will still not play, even if they stay because they feel force. They will become nasty, aggressive, lash out and sabotage their own team further, ruin other people's experience as a byproduct. All it creates is more conflict.
It is worthwhile for a developer to look at the reasons why people leave, and address those issues. Premades vs. randoms is one aspect, imbalanced teams another, gear differences a third, skewed setups a fourth, and so on. During Headstart, at lower levels, most games were super close. 950-1000, stuff like that. No one left. Losing wasn't really very impactful, either. It was light and it was fun. Now? It's "own or get owned", and you can tell after a few seconds how it will go.
Instead of trying to think how to punish people for not doing something they don't enjoy, I feel focusing creative energy on ways how to reward people for doing what they enjoy, and working towards an end where people do enjoy what they do, regardless of whether they win or lose, is a more fruitful approach.
At the end of the day, you cannot really force people to do something they don't want to do and expect them to be happy. Not going to work. You may end up with a situation where they do what you want, but it's not going to last and it will require increasingly more pressure and control to get the desired results. And then, at some point, it will all blow up or collapse on itself.
Humans don't work that way. No living organism does.
rapticorMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,078Arc User
edited June 2013
I don't agree with the decreased glory for losing thing. When I first started to PvP the only thing that kept me playing was "well at least I get something (half) for losing". I think if the proposed system was in place I wouldn't have bothered. Luckily I now have 3 characters with max glory so I'm not really being impacted by this change. I definitely think it will discourage new players from getting into PvP though other than for the dailies.
Summary: A bad change. And does nothing to reduce the number of bots or AFKers.
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ambisinisterrMember, Neverwinter ModeratorPosts: 10,462Community Moderator
It is a cheap way to fix the issue with botting. umm why not added an auto kick for botting?
more cheap fixes and excuses from F2P titles. meh I will wait for the next update then I will hit the BIG door.
If they could be detected that easily (without actually being reviewed by a GM) they'd be getting auto-bans, not auto-kicks.
It's easy to say "just detect the bots" but it's really never as easy as that. Of course that's on the agenda but it's really, really not as simple as anybody without experience would imagine.
The solution to pvp bots is simple the reason they are doing it is to farm glory and sell pvp gear for AD. Just make pvp gear bound on account (transferrable to other characters on the same account). Problem solved.
Sounds very reasonable to me. It's the way other mmo's seem to work...perhaps there is a reason they do that?
@aasddkl1123 and pinkfont: You need to face the ups and downs, not everything can be fun even though it should. A total loss is still part of the game, even if you dont like it or find it fun. Being allowed to leave is not the right thing.
The penealty should be that you cant sign up for the avarage estimated time a game takes, or give a debuff linked to your game. By leaving a total loss you open up the game so other have to face the same total loss i.e wasting their time.
A game can start horribly and then turn halfway through, it has happened several times for me. It has felt more rewarding than the regular wins since we did something great during the game. The type of game others would leave the second they start losing.
To be fair, force people to stay in games until one of the teams have atleast hit 500 points. That would stop many of the insta rage quitters that leave as soon as the enemy caps two nodes. At the same time the match hits 500 points for one team they should be locked so others wont happen to end up in a total mess due to quitters.
Games dont last very long so bailing is a mystery to me mostly. I dont see the point. If you dont wanna feed the enemy team, stay at spawn.Most other MMOs have had a deserter penalty and rightfully so.
And after the patch, sticking to the GY for your own good in a total loss is at no risk, since the leader cant kick anymore. Why would you need a sytem where you can quit?
edit: For the record, I dont PvP for rewards, I PvP to PvP. I dont care if there are rewards in PvP or not, my reward is killing the other guy.
So, you're going to decrease glory gain for losing team huh?
You do realize what will happen as a result of this, right?
People will leave matches once it's obvious they will not win. If you guys are annoyed at all these 3v5 games now, just wait until there's literally no reason to stay in a game that you're losing. Every game will end up as a 1v5.
Right now, the situation isn't perfect but at least there's a silver lining. Yeah getting stuck in a match with one bot running around in circles and one person disconnected sucks, but at least once you inevitably get face-rolled and lose, you still get something worthwhile for your efforts. Take that away, and why shouldn't you just leave and try to find another game with a more balanced team?
Why wouldn't you leave?
Dear, Dear OP, yours is not to reason why...you will simply click "I agree" with the EULA and remain silent. Grin.
There is no worse feeling in the world than the moment during an argument you realize you are wrong.
Thing is captcha is easy to recognise in a web page or a form as it is always at the same place, but in a 3d world you have deal with other players present with various positions on the screen, the camera angle, possible sky animations, all of these are processed instantaneously by a player but for a bot it takes advanced algorythms as long as you dont keep the position and orientation fixed (if you rotate the runes in space player will position themselves easily bots might fail to recognize them).
Anyway it was just an idea but this is just an idea but the important point is we need to beat the bots by using its weaknesses which are usually its interraction to the world. A bot is easy to recognoze by a player why ... Its stereotyped. It wont react to what appears on the screen, mostly it deals with the log and a predefine pattern, it might react to score or other easily retrievable info but it would be hard pressed to react intelligently to a game element.
Another element of bot elimination is that bot evolve to circumvent specific action meant to disrupt them. it may take 10 days but they will be back unless they are not aware of what sold them out. A real solution imply they are to be kept in the dark on what sold them as bots to the game or rely on a very complex behaviour that cant be coded easily.
The fact that the actual bots "attack" player would tend to indicate they use object detection script. Captcha would need to be drawn and not be actual objects to force an image detection to increase the difficulty.
Because when you win you get double the amount of glory, a free blue item to sell for gold, and the game is actually fun for you.
If you're losing a competitive match then it's still fun and you still get something.
If you're losing because half your team is afk/bots, then not only are you having no fun but apparently you don't deserve anything for your trouble and if you even think of leaving you should be punished. And after three or so games of this treatment, you actually think anyone is going to stick around?
The only reason people haven't abandoned this broken PvP is because it's worthwhile to do. Everything in an MMO should be rewarding. It's the entire point! This is a carrot-on-a-stick genre!
This is a pretty good argument...
I personally felt that the losing rewards were too high in the first place and should be reduced. However, I also felt that the basis of winning is a poor design that encourages evasion over confrontation. I say do away with Capture the Tower and just have Annihilation matches--it may leave a chunk of people out of PvP, but let's face it, most people that are really into their PvP won't miss those individuals; AND bots would literally have no conceivable rewards provided.
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what do you expect? I'm only there for the daily anyway - glory? lol who cares, I bought everything you can with glory, including the @#$ty pet, and still have 20k in the bank...
so what do you want me to do when the game starts 4 v 5 (or worse..) because someone didn't teleport to the zone (FIX THIS @#$@# BUG ALREADY) or when someone quits and/or you're just getting facerolled by the other team anyway? there's only so many times I can run into battle, fire off 1 or 2 shots, then get stunlocked by the other team and 2-3 shot dead every time. what fun is that? so I sit in spawn til the game is over, collect my AD and give up pvp until the next daily...
if you haven't watched the preview, there are 3 rounds, the first and last are PvE, the middle is PvP. the winner of the first PvE round gets a buff for the next PvP round, making it even easier to beat a team that.. they just beat... and then the winner of the PvP round goes on to enter a T2 dungeon, the loser gets a T1 dungeon. in case you can't spot the flaws with this.... I'm sure that almost nobody will stick around for the T1 dungeon, and most losing teams will probably quit after the 1st round - or certainly after a couple minutes of the PvP round if it looks certain that they will lose.
1) allow players to drop a group while the timer is counting down w/o penalty. It will allow us to see who is bugged/botted and get out before things are bad.
2) if the game has already started and a player drops then that player can't requeue for a PvP event untill the event they dropped is finished.
Reasoning behind this. number 1 allows us to see our team and not be penalized if it's full of bots. and number 2 is so that it does punish those who drop. now I know ya'll will say what if we have a real life emergency or something. well if you have an emergency in Real life, I doubt you'll get back to the computer before the match is over and then can go on your merry way with another pvp queue. (false alarms not included). as for a Disconnect, should allow for a 2 minute window before getting kicked by the party leader.
Curioser and curioser. You have never left a game but aren’t you doing the very same thing as someone who does leave a game? Are you not stranding the rest of the team with a non-operable spot? If it has the same effect, is it the same thing?
So by the aforementioned logic we are to brand you a cheater and go through the appropriate channels, is that right? Not coming out to get farmed is, by our accepted definition, cheating, yes?
*camp loudspeaker * Failing to report for your beating will result in your suspension… then in further beating.
Is this what you meant, Andre? I suppose this is your chance to make a specific polemic directly to the source.
Yep. This is the reason that I will probably only do 20v20 once then forget about it. Since there are no special rewards in there, I would rather run a 5 man T2 then a 20v20 that may take hours on end.
Lift me up..
Panda@kristingrave - CW - Dragon
Death@healxyou - DC - Dragon
So your saying run a mental evaluation on players before they que for pvp? i dont get your point..
They meant they afk it if there all ready loosing badly.
I do the same when it is something like 300-400 on our side against 900 points. What's the point of going out to get killed then when your going to loose regardless? Might as well run around the top or stand by camp then possibly get killed at the last moment then spawn to town dead and have to waste an injury kit.
Lift me up..
Panda@kristingrave - CW - Dragon
Death@healxyou - DC - Dragon
And on an unrelated note…
Revelations all around. I am sorry that I have nothing like this to share. I did not come to this meeting prepared.
Lift me up..
Panda@kristingrave - CW - Dragon
Death@healxyou - DC - Dragon
Like a Captcha. That too is a little bit genius!
Yes Captcha, couldn't think of the name of it so save my life.
Lift me up..
Panda@kristingrave - CW - Dragon
Death@healxyou - DC - Dragon
I've suggested them in other games before and developers have always responded they aren't as effective as one might think...but then again they could just be saying that to cover for the other reason:
People hate captcha's and while die-hard legit players, like myself, would gladly deal with capcha's to deal with bots, it could drive players away and thus devs look for less extreme solutions.
Who knows though. It's simply what I have heard from developers on other games. It's an obvious solution they all refuse to add in. *shrugs*
If you leave or sit afk in a match, you should be banned from participating in another for one hour.
my god people it's just a game.
going afk is cheating now? LOL good luck with that.
15 mins would be ok though. ORRRR make it possible for replacement players to join late. (that and fix the #$@# bug where you don't get teleported to zone). if they did these things there would be NO reason for a "leaver" penalty.
1) the leader will not kick bots
2) the leader IS a bot
3) it's 3v5 or 4v5
Thankfully, I'm leader most of the time it seems...so #1 and #2 are easily resolved (most of the time).
I do not leave just because my team is losing. If all players are actually human and are playing, then it's a fun game, regardless of the outcome. That doesn't mean that I will participate in a match that is fundamental borked hoever.
I play to have fun and be competitive, not be frustrated at a broken mechanic that to me, seems relatively easy to fix. If I'm penalized by having to wait for X minutes so be it. Although, one work around if this is the case (that me leaving a broken system is focused upon instead of what is broke: bots/system not adding players as it should), then I suppose I will just sit in camp and read a book...pressing space bar every few mins or so.
YOU...nor Cryptic...gets to punish me for having to deal with idiot bots or a broken mechanic (not filling team).
I know, it typically gets ignored in other games as well.
Being a former coding junky, at least 3 years back it was a pain to program a simple bot to go around a Captcha of any form. Browser based is easier then in game based where things are programmed of seconds to keep the bot moving. A text based bot (the ones that spam chat) could get around it simpler, then one actually doing other tasks within timing. So honestly when devs refuse to put something like that in a game i see it as a laziness on their part. Make it so that it comes up once every 4 runs for an IP, that way it's not a constant annoyance to legit players most of whom only do pvp for a daily (4 times or 2 if both are wins). They wouldn't have to see it more then once per entering a day. That and if it's not a constant it would set bots off further due to any server lag or hickup could send the bot to a non working condition once it misses the Captcha once.
Lift me up..
Panda@kristingrave - CW - Dragon
Death@healxyou - DC - Dragon
Missing penalties for leavers is only a tiny part of the problem. Poor queuing systems and poor match making systems are the real issue.
If you are being matched up 1, 2, or even 3 vs 5 then it is a failure of the game. No one should be forced to spend time on that sort of situation.
'Caine, miss you bud. Fly high.
if the win by default then winning team should not have the problem, but in other case, I believe with so much reducing reward the PvP losing team, some people will chose to leave, get penalty rather than let the winning team get the reward. conclusion, lose-lose is chosen rather than win-lose if win-win is not available. but then again, if leaving means the match canceled
It will simply penalise the people who get stuck with a bot or afk. Just finished a game. We had one afk disconnect right from the start so now its 5v4
We played hard and had a a commanding kills vs advantage but that extra person kept capping. But we persisted dragging the game out making it a challenge for both teams.
So what would i do in the future if i recieved nothing for my efforts.
1. I would premade and organise in trade thus making trade even more annoying.
2. If i pugged and knew i would lose due to afk bot etc i would leave and start over. why extend the pain.
3. If i pugged and knew i would lose and had a leaver penalty i would afk to get it over faster.
As most players realised you had to pug to win it would force the casual player out.
It is not fair on the players that the game company punishes the people who dont do anything wrong. Right now you can get a non premade pvp match is less than a minute. That will change.
Fyi i have my headhunter title and i win far more games pugging than not.
It is a cheap way to fix the issue with botting. umm why not added an auto kick for botting?
more cheap fixes and excuses from F2P titles. meh I will wait for the next update then I will hit the BIG door.
It's not part of the problem. People leaving is just a symptom, and penalties for leaving don't address the cause: the reason why people leave.
If someone leaves, it means that for whatever reason they are not enjoying themselves. Enjoying oneself is a pretty important thing in a video game. Trying to force them to stay in spite of them not having fun cannot have positive results. It's a negative action and will have negative re-actions. People will still not play, even if they stay because they feel force. They will become nasty, aggressive, lash out and sabotage their own team further, ruin other people's experience as a byproduct. All it creates is more conflict.
It is worthwhile for a developer to look at the reasons why people leave, and address those issues. Premades vs. randoms is one aspect, imbalanced teams another, gear differences a third, skewed setups a fourth, and so on. During Headstart, at lower levels, most games were super close. 950-1000, stuff like that. No one left. Losing wasn't really very impactful, either. It was light and it was fun. Now? It's "own or get owned", and you can tell after a few seconds how it will go.
Instead of trying to think how to punish people for not doing something they don't enjoy, I feel focusing creative energy on ways how to reward people for doing what they enjoy, and working towards an end where people do enjoy what they do, regardless of whether they win or lose, is a more fruitful approach.
At the end of the day, you cannot really force people to do something they don't want to do and expect them to be happy. Not going to work. You may end up with a situation where they do what you want, but it's not going to last and it will require increasingly more pressure and control to get the desired results. And then, at some point, it will all blow up or collapse on itself.
Humans don't work that way. No living organism does.
Summary: A bad change. And does nothing to reduce the number of bots or AFKers.
If they could be detected that easily (without actually being reviewed by a GM) they'd be getting auto-bans, not auto-kicks.
It's easy to say "just detect the bots" but it's really never as easy as that. Of course that's on the agenda but it's really, really not as simple as anybody without experience would imagine.
The penealty should be that you cant sign up for the avarage estimated time a game takes, or give a debuff linked to your game. By leaving a total loss you open up the game so other have to face the same total loss i.e wasting their time.
A game can start horribly and then turn halfway through, it has happened several times for me. It has felt more rewarding than the regular wins since we did something great during the game. The type of game others would leave the second they start losing.
To be fair, force people to stay in games until one of the teams have atleast hit 500 points. That would stop many of the insta rage quitters that leave as soon as the enemy caps two nodes. At the same time the match hits 500 points for one team they should be locked so others wont happen to end up in a total mess due to quitters.
Games dont last very long so bailing is a mystery to me mostly. I dont see the point. If you dont wanna feed the enemy team, stay at spawn.Most other MMOs have had a deserter penalty and rightfully so.
And after the patch, sticking to the GY for your own good in a total loss is at no risk, since the leader cant kick anymore. Why would you need a sytem where you can quit?
edit: For the record, I dont PvP for rewards, I PvP to PvP. I dont care if there are rewards in PvP or not, my reward is killing the other guy.
Dear, Dear OP, yours is not to reason why...you will simply click "I agree" with the EULA and remain silent. Grin.
Anyway it was just an idea but this is just an idea but the important point is we need to beat the bots by using its weaknesses which are usually its interraction to the world. A bot is easy to recognoze by a player why ... Its stereotyped. It wont react to what appears on the screen, mostly it deals with the log and a predefine pattern, it might react to score or other easily retrievable info but it would be hard pressed to react intelligently to a game element.
Another element of bot elimination is that bot evolve to circumvent specific action meant to disrupt them. it may take 10 days but they will be back unless they are not aware of what sold them out. A real solution imply they are to be kept in the dark on what sold them as bots to the game or rely on a very complex behaviour that cant be coded easily.
The fact that the actual bots "attack" player would tend to indicate they use object detection script. Captcha would need to be drawn and not be actual objects to force an image detection to increase the difficulty.
This is a pretty good argument...
I personally felt that the losing rewards were too high in the first place and should be reduced. However, I also felt that the basis of winning is a poor design that encourages evasion over confrontation. I say do away with Capture the Tower and just have Annihilation matches--it may leave a chunk of people out of PvP, but let's face it, most people that are really into their PvP won't miss those individuals; AND bots would literally have no conceivable rewards provided.