It really just... and I hate to say this because it's usually what trolls say, but people are going to actually have to learn to play.
There are changes to GF and GWF that come along with this world ending nerf, so before you get all dressed out in your goth kid finest and start cutting while mascara runs down your cheeks from the tears that threaten to drown us all maybe you should like... test out the changes first and give reasonable feedback instead of screaming and throwing a tantrum about how your class is useless because you can't stack and perma up a skill that wasn't working as intended.
I'm not hardcore, but I'm personally looking forward to people having to actually learn that red circle is bad and that they can't just stand and eat huge attacks like they're candy and expect magic shield to keep them alive without any effort.
-Campaign: Spells and Coin
--Part 1: Spells and Coin (NW-DHM3XQVQK)
--Part 2: A Blind Eye (NW-DI3QTHZGJ)
--Part 3: Dodo's Dinner (NW-DHPA8O253)
They increased guard mitigation against high damage attacks but lots of adds eat block away very very fast.
Defense, as a stat, already gets worse per point without any enchants. Timeless + a blue belt is already ~43% dr. Not to mention fixing the ac feat is going to be another 2% dr or some such.
they still vulnerable if attacked from side or behind, even a blast skill from below is still nasty sometime. so much aggro build on GF I'm not worried about those adds in front, but I'm worried about adds on his other sides
I do move. With only a single DC in a party you have to move - both to move off the red stuff and to position yourself in relation to adds, bosses and party members. I am not sure how you would assume that a single DC in a party wouldn't move. Have you actually played a DC? Forgive me but it doesn't sound like you have. And even now AS is not necessarily 100% up time. You may get knocked over, be locked down, not have enough D-power for some reason. Again, do you play a DC?
ummm, did you read the post? i never said clerics dont move nor did i say anything about clerics mechanics as i have only played a DC to lvl 7 lol. The moving thing was more for DPS'ers having to avoid AEs since there wont be an AS always up. I understand clerics are always moving around right now since they just drop there spells and kite add the best they can. All im saying is people need to stop *****ing about the first attempt at balancing like its the end all be all to the classes and nothing further will be changed.
I have a 60 DC that has been parked up for ages. I simply do not enjoy it. It is not fun to play. nuff said on that.
My question is for players who expect to use 2 DC's to cover the cooldown gap on AS. How exactly do you expect to chain it and cover the gap properly ? Does it bounce if you mistime it and land it a fraction early meaning you need to recognize that fact and recast it leaving the group exposed for a time ? Are you expected to get it ready and then wait till you see it has dropped and then place it ? Leaving the group exposed for a time ? Are you going to try to do anything except sit around trying to coordinate an effective chain with another DC ? What happens if you land it a fraction early and it bounces and it still sets off the cooldown timer ?
Unless the new AS can queue and cast the instant the old AS drops you will be exposed for a time. No two people are going to be that coordinated consistantly.
Sounds like even less fun to me.
If you run one DC he will be flat out keeping the group alive when AS is on cooldown while the other classes continue to assume they can go on autopilot or you will need 2 DC's that are telepathic.
With lag and/or any other distraction that can happen mid fight you WILL have periods where AS will be down. A couple unlucky crits or a DPS burst/spike at the wrong instant and boom, splat, wipe.
Unless a new AS refreshes an existing ones timer without stacking the effects then people expecting that just having 2 DC's will allow them to have 100% coverage of AS are in for a let down. With no overlap it wont happen. If you are willing to let them both stand in the corner staring at the ground watching cooldown/buff timers and doing absolutely nothing else then you might go kind of ok. Heh... good luck with that. And if it does refresh the timers then to allow for human failings you would probably want one landing at the 8sec mark. That's 2 DC's casting it the instant it pops basically.
It's easy to say 'stock up on potions' but the thing with potions is that you rarely know when to use them. It's really annoying when you have a heartbeat to decide which person you are going to drop a heal on only to choose one and have him pop a potion an instant before it lands while the guy you thought could survive falls over.
So yeah.... stock up on potions but be consistant about using them please.
Players need to keep an eye on their own hp's. Most cant/wont even do that but think it is their right to abuse the cleric for not watching everything going on, predicting adds, running around, healing clowns who stand on hotplates AND watch everyones health bars.
It's easy to say 'The other classes need to do their bit' or 'With the new changes other classes can now play their roles better' but the simple fact is that your average human is lazy and couldn't care less because they can just blame the healer if anyone falls over.
It's a game. Am I the only one who thinks it should be enjoyable ?
It is fair to say that until people take the new changes for a test drive it is all speculation. We shall have to see I suppose. Fingers crossed folks.
they still vulnerable if attacked from side or behind, even a blast skill from below is still nasty sometime. so much aggro build on GF I'm not worried about those adds in front, but I'm worried about adds on his other sides
Shield won't last that long if you have 4-6 mobs on you anyway.
Baseline GF mitigation needs a boost.
I like how all of the buff related GF encounters actually hurt the GF more.
Want to see something funny? Knight's Valor will one shot a GF if AS is down and your group does something stupid.
Use the <removed exploit lead-in> to interact with the auction vendor.
Nobody knows how bad this will be till they try a dungeon, just wait and good luck finding a cleric. People also underestimate the shield. If I were to not use it for 5 seconds when 20 adds including a boss is around you and the red indicated to move out of the way fills up half the area, enjoy being knocked down to your death. Shield off for 3 seconds is enough to get you down to zero hp in no time, people are used to being almost invincible but now they will see, the stacking nerf was fine, but seriously why heals.
0
nullwolf1Member, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
All these people going "you will be fine GF has aggro now".. LOL
You know the GF is going to die with all that aggro and 5-6 seconds of no AS right? GF hardly has more mitigation then anyone else - the block doesn't last long with more then 3-4 things hitting you - mobs always run behind you for combat advantage - and our defensive stats are hardly better then DC themselves besides we get a bit more HP.
For an example of the block meter - A Plaguechanged Maw circle hit will take 90-100% of the guard meter. Yes normally I avoid this hit, but it's just an example of how little dmg it actually absorbs.
I don't know, people complained no control was needed, no tank was needed, only dps matter, bc at the some point, we were all invicible in a group of mob even in T2 with 1 solo cleric the tank doesnt block and wizard pull at the same moment rogue already engaged. People needed heal because it was a speed run and no ones really care about dodging the attack, stay behind the monster, even CW was tanking. Every theorycraft for every classes was about DPS, DPS was the only thing that matters. Now GF should be able to tank, CW will have to "control" because their damage was nerfed, so the optimal build might not be a control build around "Death" status. At the end, i think it will be slightly more tactical and less improvised, people will adapt, cleric doesn't make his party immune to death, and without the aggro on him he should be more focused at playing smartly instead of spamming blindly.
I'm one of the die-hard healers who sort of roll with the changes. I was the single healer in the dungeons before folks starting suggesting the dual healer group. I was fine with either type of group. I just roll with things. Now the shield and a few cleric nerfs are incoming so I will just have to roll with that change. Sounds like we will have to get back to a group with the best combo of classes. The GF's should be getting much love in the coming changes so it may just work out. I'm sure things will be bumpy until WE the players fully try it all out with different group builds and communicate to the powers that be, on what is working and what is not. I do suggest that everyone invest heavily on heal pots and patience.
I honestly thought they would only nerf the double AS. I guess not. I know it sucks to love a class and see it not work as we traditionally use to play it. Like me, some will hang in there but I'm sure alot won't.
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nullwolf1Member, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Go play a cleric before you talk, enjoy the zero shield for 4-6 seconds bud.
I'll be leveling a cleric along with all the other classes. And I'll judge it on how it works instead of assuming the worst before a patch goes live...
All these people going "you will be fine GF has aggro now".. LOL
You know the GF is going to die with all that aggro and 5-6 seconds of no AS right? GF hardly has more mitigation then anyone else - the block doesn't last long with more then 3-4 things hitting you - mobs always run behind you for combat advantage - and our defensive stats are hardly better then DC themselves besides we get a bit more HP.
For an example of the block meter - A Plaguechanged Maw circle hit will take 90-100% of the guard meter. Yes normally I avoid this hit, but it's just an example of how little dmg it actually absorbs.
And still no current build in "the barrack" suggest GF need defense or defensive power/feats because you can't die if you have a cleric in a party. Those change are all in accordance that classes need to do their role, not being top dps and blindly attacking monsters without avoiding damage.
And still no current build in "the barrack" suggest GF need defense or defensive power/feats because you can't die if you have a cleric in a party. Those change are all in accordance that classes need to do their role, not being top dps and blindly attacking monsters without avoiding damage.
The base defense on "dps" gf gear is so high that gearing defense does very little. Even fixing the AC feat is going to be a couple %. I can't think of any way to reliably gain the mitigation lost by not being in AS.
Use the <removed exploit lead-in> to interact with the auction vendor.
The base defense on "dps" gf gear is so high that gearing defense does very little. Even fixing the AC feat is going to be a couple %. I can't think of any way to reliably gain the mitigation lost by not being in AS.
Well there's CC. I don't think we will see 3 dps CW in a group in the future.
Every class has a way to decrease the damage they take or increase their CC. But almost none uses them. It's a dps fest atm.
Op is looking at one class balance, and choose to neglect all the other balances
0/10 wouldent read again.
Also where did creativity and challenge go in games in the last 10 years?
They took ure cheese, but u seem to stil have some whine.
How old are you? Lmao. What other balances? I am complaining about this certain class and I own all classes, I think most of the patch notes and balancing was fine but cleric is broken. You my friend, need to learn to read.
Well time to put my DC on to a shelf and lvl CW or better yet GF. Stacking AS needed to be removed, that is true but everything else is an overkill. It always boggled my mind how some people complain about it beeing too easy. You can just replace AS with other skills and welcome to hard mode. Or even go different feature spec to add the spicing. To ruin game play for someone else is unjustified. I am one of those few DCs who pug a lot, no i do not want to search for a permanent team, due to me beeing an unreliable player. I might end not playing for months. Permanent AS is what made my experience somewhat enjoyable, since i was fulfilling my role in team - healing. Now i am a reverted GF before patch, who cant do its job right.
Oh yes now we have only one optional encounter skill slot available to us since FFs (bastion of health lols) and AS will be a must have, limiting my already limited build choice.
P.S. whose bright idea was it to nerf only legitimate crowd controller in game - CW and that with AS on top of that?
To the guy who was asking about chaining AS with two clerics, it's not that difficult to coordinate (I've done it in double DC parties when we didn't want to stack-cheese through everything).
With uptime reduced to 66%, two clerics have a combined uptime of 133%, so there's basically about 3 seconds of wiggleroom in case anyone screws up. You simply decide who's going to stick it down first in any given fight, and the other guy keeps an eye on the blue (which everyone is doing anyway, since it's the magic health-spot), then sticks his down as soon as the blue goes away. Once you've got alternating cooldowns it's pretty easy to work out when your "turn" in the rotation is coming up.
Basically, this is going to be a much easier workaround than going out and doing in-depth build testing to find new ways to compensate. Plus, as noted, all our other heals are even gimpier than AS, even after the nerf, so it's not like we have a whole lot of options.
I think all the pro clerics will all quit if it gets patched that bad. Cryptic made the wrong move, I really don't see why any cleric should still play their class after this no matter how geared, I feel bad for them. Really, this will kill devoted cleric and parties trying to run spider or castle never with a 5 man party of 5 different classes (so 1 dc).
How old are you? Lmao. What other balances? I am complaining about this certain class and I own all classes, I think most of the patch notes and balancing was fine but cleric is broken. You my friend, need to learn to read.
You don't see the inherent flaw with that?
The other classes now have to pick up the slack. The tank now has to tank. The control now has to time their controls. People can't just press three buttons and mow down an encounter now while the DC just throws down a circle and heal a bit. The endgame is now hard.
I think all the pro clerics will all quit if it gets patched that bad. Cryptic made the wrong move, I really don't see why any cleric should still play their class after this no matter how geared, I feel bad for them. Really, this will kill devoted cleric and parties trying to run spider or castle never with a 5 man party of 5 different classes (so 1 dc).
Hah, if anything all the good clerics will stick around because they will become that more desirable. The bad clerics that relied on double stacking or spamming will probably drop and pick up Ranger or something. Any good cleric won't have a problem adapting.
The other classes now have to pick up the slack. The tank now has to tank. The control now has to time their controls. People can't just press three buttons and mow down an encounter now while the DC just throws down a circle and heal a bit. The endgame is now hard.
heal, buff, debuff, remove debuff .... it is cleric what do you expect?
PS: if you think "just throw down circle and heal a bit" is easy, why dont you just try yourself, make a cleric, build it to level 60 by story quest and dungeons
I think all the pro clerics will all quit if it gets patched that bad. Cryptic made the wrong move, I really don't see why any cleric should still play their class after this no matter how geared, I feel bad for them. Really, this will kill devoted cleric and parties trying to run spider or castle never with a 5 man party of 5 different classes (so 1 dc).
there is a way of playing cleric as a damage dealer after the patch, it is not like cleric would be unplayable. but still, where the part of "taking role"? no support n' healing? just lets go all do DPS? even TR is lost his assassinate skill, there no more Master Assassinate here, infiltrator only, where is this game about to going to is far from D&D it self
1 good quote from 1 smart person. And now let me tell you 2nd bottom of that nerf.
And I Agree here, besides CastleNever I was 100% walki solo. And Im gonna tell you something. Cleric in that game do not have HEALIN TOOLS. To big CD or to weak or waste of spot.
So Who Ever was doin that changes , im 100% he never EVER played cleric. So lower CD on our other heals c'mon !
So generally if someone wanted reach the point where gonna walk solo DC is totaly mega wrong. PPL now gona walk in pairs even stronlgy. WE DONT HAVE TOOLS for healin. Or Players just gonna quit Cleric class and there will be no Clerics in tha game = no dungeons. If you want tell me im over reacting. Just ask me and other DC what was keepin us in that game to feel usefull. And ask your self DEVS , PW , COMUNITY. How mutch Clerics you see on servers.
REASUME : Nerf Stacking . Dont nerf DMG reduction otherwise you gonna kill that game.
Something that is dead cannot be killed. The only life form on this rotten carcass of a "game" are maggots (fanboys/girls,goldseller/spammers, people that have not reached 60 yet)
heal, buff, debuff, remove debuff .... it is cleric what do you expect?
Timing, coordination. Tanks will have to draw aggro and toss up their mitigation skills when the shield is up. Wizards will have to time their control when AS is about to go down. Rogues will have to smokescreen if Wizards can't Black Hole in time. You know, party mechanics.
Let me rephrase. The party can no longer stand in one spot only doing damage while the DC is healing. The party now has to actually pick up the slack when the DC is waiting for cooldowns.
I was never a DC that ran 2 in parties and have completed all instances. This is a bad move, the stacking issue needed fixed but the duration was fine. The aggro change will make it worse not better. It reads aggro is spread to all mobs instead of on specific mobs attacking the person your healing. The mobs that pose an issue are the ones that have just spawned and b-line it to the cleric, now these mobs get to have the aggro spread to them evenly....great. I never had an issue with the aggro before and stood with the GF and held mobs off the rest of the party with my defense being almost as high as the GF . There was nothing wrong with the duration and before people would stack 2 DC to cheese stuff. Now, the reason will be legitimate so don't expect parties to run balanced after the change it will only be worse. Sucks for those not playing a CW because it will be even harder to get a party and 2x DC will be used even more.
Comments
Please read.
There are changes to GF and GWF that come along with this world ending nerf, so before you get all dressed out in your goth kid finest and start cutting while mascara runs down your cheeks from the tears that threaten to drown us all maybe you should like... test out the changes first and give reasonable feedback instead of screaming and throwing a tantrum about how your class is useless because you can't stack and perma up a skill that wasn't working as intended.
I'm not hardcore, but I'm personally looking forward to people having to actually learn that red circle is bad and that they can't just stand and eat huge attacks like they're candy and expect magic shield to keep them alive without any effort.
--Part 1: Spells and Coin (NW-DHM3XQVQK)
--Part 2: A Blind Eye (NW-DI3QTHZGJ)
--Part 3: Dodo's Dinner (NW-DHPA8O253)
-One Shots
--The Wizard of Eldeur (NW-DRKQNE4S7)
they still vulnerable if attacked from side or behind, even a blast skill from below is still nasty sometime. so much aggro build on GF I'm not worried about those adds in front, but I'm worried about adds on his other sides
ummm, did you read the post? i never said clerics dont move nor did i say anything about clerics mechanics as i have only played a DC to lvl 7 lol. The moving thing was more for DPS'ers having to avoid AEs since there wont be an AS always up. I understand clerics are always moving around right now since they just drop there spells and kite add the best they can. All im saying is people need to stop *****ing about the first attempt at balancing like its the end all be all to the classes and nothing further will be changed.
My question is for players who expect to use 2 DC's to cover the cooldown gap on AS. How exactly do you expect to chain it and cover the gap properly ? Does it bounce if you mistime it and land it a fraction early meaning you need to recognize that fact and recast it leaving the group exposed for a time ? Are you expected to get it ready and then wait till you see it has dropped and then place it ? Leaving the group exposed for a time ? Are you going to try to do anything except sit around trying to coordinate an effective chain with another DC ? What happens if you land it a fraction early and it bounces and it still sets off the cooldown timer ?
Unless the new AS can queue and cast the instant the old AS drops you will be exposed for a time. No two people are going to be that coordinated consistantly.
Sounds like even less fun to me.
If you run one DC he will be flat out keeping the group alive when AS is on cooldown while the other classes continue to assume they can go on autopilot or you will need 2 DC's that are telepathic.
With lag and/or any other distraction that can happen mid fight you WILL have periods where AS will be down. A couple unlucky crits or a DPS burst/spike at the wrong instant and boom, splat, wipe.
Unless a new AS refreshes an existing ones timer without stacking the effects then people expecting that just having 2 DC's will allow them to have 100% coverage of AS are in for a let down. With no overlap it wont happen. If you are willing to let them both stand in the corner staring at the ground watching cooldown/buff timers and doing absolutely nothing else then you might go kind of ok. Heh... good luck with that. And if it does refresh the timers then to allow for human failings you would probably want one landing at the 8sec mark. That's 2 DC's casting it the instant it pops basically.
It's easy to say 'stock up on potions' but the thing with potions is that you rarely know when to use them. It's really annoying when you have a heartbeat to decide which person you are going to drop a heal on only to choose one and have him pop a potion an instant before it lands while the guy you thought could survive falls over.
So yeah.... stock up on potions but be consistant about using them please.
Players need to keep an eye on their own hp's. Most cant/wont even do that but think it is their right to abuse the cleric for not watching everything going on, predicting adds, running around, healing clowns who stand on hotplates AND watch everyones health bars.
It's easy to say 'The other classes need to do their bit' or 'With the new changes other classes can now play their roles better' but the simple fact is that your average human is lazy and couldn't care less because they can just blame the healer if anyone falls over.
It's a game. Am I the only one who thinks it should be enjoyable ?
It is fair to say that until people take the new changes for a test drive it is all speculation. We shall have to see I suppose. Fingers crossed folks.
Shield won't last that long if you have 4-6 mobs on you anyway.
Baseline GF mitigation needs a boost.
I like how all of the buff related GF encounters actually hurt the GF more.
Want to see something funny? Knight's Valor will one shot a GF if AS is down and your group does something stupid.
You're just chock full of optimism aren't you?
Adapt to the situation, learn how to work with the new changes, don't just freak out before you even see how everything works...
D&D Home Page - What Class Are You? - Build A Character - D&D Compendium
You know the GF is going to die with all that aggro and 5-6 seconds of no AS right? GF hardly has more mitigation then anyone else - the block doesn't last long with more then 3-4 things hitting you - mobs always run behind you for combat advantage - and our defensive stats are hardly better then DC themselves besides we get a bit more HP.
For an example of the block meter - A Plaguechanged Maw circle hit will take 90-100% of the guard meter. Yes normally I avoid this hit, but it's just an example of how little dmg it actually absorbs.
I honestly thought they would only nerf the double AS. I guess not. I know it sucks to love a class and see it not work as we traditionally use to play it. Like me, some will hang in there but I'm sure alot won't.
I'll be leveling a cleric along with all the other classes. And I'll judge it on how it works instead of assuming the worst before a patch goes live...
D&D Home Page - What Class Are You? - Build A Character - D&D Compendium
And still no current build in "the barrack" suggest GF need defense or defensive power/feats because you can't die if you have a cleric in a party. Those change are all in accordance that classes need to do their role, not being top dps and blindly attacking monsters without avoiding damage.
The base defense on "dps" gf gear is so high that gearing defense does very little. Even fixing the AC feat is going to be a couple %. I can't think of any way to reliably gain the mitigation lost by not being in AS.
Well there's CC. I don't think we will see 3 dps CW in a group in the future.
Every class has a way to decrease the damage they take or increase their CC. But almost none uses them. It's a dps fest atm.
0/10 wouldent read again.
Also where did creativity and challenge go in games in the last 10 years?
They took ure cheese, but u seem to stil have some whine.
Oh yes now we have only one optional encounter skill slot available to us since FFs (bastion of health lols) and AS will be a must have, limiting my already limited build choice.
P.S. whose bright idea was it to nerf only legitimate crowd controller in game - CW and that with AS on top of that?
With uptime reduced to 66%, two clerics have a combined uptime of 133%, so there's basically about 3 seconds of wiggleroom in case anyone screws up. You simply decide who's going to stick it down first in any given fight, and the other guy keeps an eye on the blue (which everyone is doing anyway, since it's the magic health-spot), then sticks his down as soon as the blue goes away. Once you've got alternating cooldowns it's pretty easy to work out when your "turn" in the rotation is coming up.
Basically, this is going to be a much easier workaround than going out and doing in-depth build testing to find new ways to compensate. Plus, as noted, all our other heals are even gimpier than AS, even after the nerf, so it's not like we have a whole lot of options.
You don't see the inherent flaw with that?
The other classes now have to pick up the slack. The tank now has to tank. The control now has to time their controls. People can't just press three buttons and mow down an encounter now while the DC just throws down a circle and heal a bit. The endgame is now hard.
Hah, if anything all the good clerics will stick around because they will become that more desirable. The bad clerics that relied on double stacking or spamming will probably drop and pick up Ranger or something. Any good cleric won't have a problem adapting.
heal, buff, debuff, remove debuff .... it is cleric what do you expect?
PS: if you think "just throw down circle and heal a bit" is easy, why dont you just try yourself, make a cleric, build it to level 60 by story quest and dungeons
there is a way of playing cleric as a damage dealer after the patch, it is not like cleric would be unplayable. but still, where the part of "taking role"? no support n' healing? just lets go all do DPS? even TR is lost his assassinate skill, there no more Master Assassinate here, infiltrator only, where is this game about to going to is far from D&D it self
Something that is dead cannot be killed. The only life form on this rotten carcass of a "game" are maggots (fanboys/girls,goldseller/spammers, people that have not reached 60 yet)
Timing, coordination. Tanks will have to draw aggro and toss up their mitigation skills when the shield is up. Wizards will have to time their control when AS is about to go down. Rogues will have to smokescreen if Wizards can't Black Hole in time. You know, party mechanics.
Let me rephrase. The party can no longer stand in one spot only doing damage while the DC is healing. The party now has to actually pick up the slack when the DC is waiting for cooldowns.