Umm.. lemee try to put it this way.... if in the middle of the fight there is no AS for 4-5 sec = everyone dies instantly.
That's just not true. People on the test server are saying it's easy to get aggro off the healer now, so the healer can use their other heals instead of just afking in the circle.
That's just not true. People on the test server are saying it's easy to get aggro off the healer now, so the healer can use their other heals instead of just afking in the circle.
Agro isn't going to be the problem.
Use the <removed exploit lead-in> to interact with the auction vendor.
Then the cleric will either have to grab more Recovery, or the cleric/CW will have to sync their skills so that Black Hole comes up when AS runs out.
easier said than done, some trash damage are still big even with the AS on, not to mention some attack come with debuff. even with current AS condition and aggro, GF still trashing and sometime forced to run from battle cause of too much damage, and I can only see increasing aggro but no increasing defense in both fighter
That's just not true. People on the test server are saying it's easy to get aggro off the healer now, so the healer can use their other heals instead of just afking in the circle.
What other heals? Are you crazy? Have you played DC? Enjoy dying in all dungeon. That is all we have and all we'll ever have. Nerfing AS this bad is a horrible idea. You will not survive, and enjoy running CN/spider with 1 cleric reduced heals. @Cryptic / Devs you need to nerf the stacking and that's it, and take off righteousness.
That's just not true. People on the test server are saying it's easy to get aggro off the healer now, so the healer can use their other heals instead of just afking in the circle.
Cleric IS NOT A HEALING CLASS in this game. All his heals are useless garbage, only 2 skills are good, AS and Hallowed Ground. Thre is no way in hell Cleric can heal even GF who just grabbed agro from 5-10 Adds, that GF is dead, and in next 2-3 sec rest of the party because trash hits for 5-8k per hit in packs of 5-10.
Carnage TR Dragon shard - retired? hell yea it's retired along with Nevewinter
I find it absolutely hilarious that people are still complaining after see'ing the monster list of changes coming with the content patch. They have touched on every single thing everyone has been complaining about and you people still have issues. The fact that AS wont be 100% uptime just means you will have to move some during boss fights(OMG MOVE?!?!). They are also fixing agro issues with all classes including REDUCING the agro clerics recieve and INCREASING GF and GWF agro. Stop jumping to conclusions and go play on the test server once it comes up before you get your panties in a bunch over changes that the community has been asking about this whole time. Fricken mmo players today, Devs are damned if they do and damned if they dont.
I do move. With only a single DC in a party you have to move - both to move off the red stuff and to position yourself in relation to adds, bosses and party members. I am not sure how you would assume that a single DC in a party wouldn't move. Have you actually played a DC? Forgive me but it doesn't sound like you have. And even now AS is not necessarily 100% up time. You may get knocked over, be locked down, not have enough D-power for some reason. Again, do you play a DC?
~*~ Sparkles! ~*~
The MMO may change but the inventory tetris stays the same.
Its all about tweaking. Lets be honest with ourselves the game has issues that need addressing. this is the first step. We all agree AS stacking was a crutch/easy mode. They fixed it, now we see how things go after the reduce duration. All the points being made in this post have some validity. Yes maybe they will need to buff some of the heals a bit or put the duration of AS back where it was to remain viable. Let things get tested so we can provide the devs with good solid input.
Umm.. lemee try to put it this way.... if in the middle of the fight there is no AS for 4-5 sec = everyone dies instantly.
Then you and the CW had better be spot on with your timing. Or pop a smokescreen. Or an Avalanche of Steel. Though with the ability to get 20%+ cooldown reduction from Recovery + Wisdom, I doubt you'd need all those skills to be chained.
And where does it say that AS has been reduced to 66%? All I'm finding is that it's made to be working as intended.
Not to mention that this isn't going Live yet. It's going on the Test Shard for a reason.
Geez, this is like LoL PBE all over again. The world is ending whenever tentative changes are made.
Cleric IS NOT A HEALING CLASS in this game. All his heals are useless garbage, only 2 skills are good, AS and Hallowed Ground. Thre is no way in hell Cleric can heal even GF who just grabbed agro from 5-10 Adds, that GF is dead, and in next 2-3 sec rest of the party because trash hits for 5-8k per hit in packs of 5-10.
Um... putting seals on adds? Also the way you build your character so you get certain procs off certain effects. It's not quite just those two skills.
~*~ Sparkles! ~*~
The MMO may change but the inventory tetris stays the same.
Its all about tweaking. Lets be honest with ourselves the game has issues that need addressing. this is the first step. We all agree AS stacking was a crutch/easy mode. They fixed it, now we see how things go after the reduce duration. All the points being made in this post have some validity. Yes maybe they will need to buff some of the heals a bit or put the duration of AS back where it was to remain viable. Let things get tested so we can provide the devs with good solid input.
Regards
The one flaw I see in your plan, is how long it took to get these changes made. I don't look forward to 66% AS uptime for a month.
Use the <removed exploit lead-in> to interact with the auction vendor.
Cleric IS NOT A HEALING CLASS in this game. All his heals are useless garbage, only 2 skills are good, AS and Hallowed Ground. Thre is no way in hell Cleric can heal even GF who just grabbed agro from 5-10 Adds, that GF is dead, and in next 2-3 sec rest of the party because trash hits for 5-8k per hit in packs of 5-10.
incorrect, by lvl 57 I aggro entire adds on Karrundax battle using 3 skills AS, Divine Armor and not-so-good Healing Word
I didn't read the entire thread, but has anyone had a chance to actually try running their DC in a dungeon on the preview server yet? I was on my 51 Cleric last night but apparently nobody was in the queue because I never got into one. It might be worth at least trying the new system in a "risk-free" environment before declaring all dungeons uncompleteable now because of the changes to AS
It's going to be funny 1 hitting all clerics with their shield off, also funny when I'm in castle never with a cleric trying to solo heals and when the shield is off the entire party dies in a second. Astral shield infinite cast and heal per tick cannot be touched, silly devs. It's literally all they have.
just to put my 2 cents in, last night i was tanking a mage and a rogue, and a DC with my DC, the AS nerf was needed. never in any MMO has my healer been able to tank 2 dps and a healer lol...
just to put my 2 cents in, last night i was tanking a mage and a rogue, and a DC with my DC, the AS nerf was needed. never in any MMO has my healer been able to tank 2 dps and a healer lol...
You sir are an idiot, enjoy TRYING to finish any dungeon.
Its all about tweaking. Lets be honest with ourselves the game has issues that need addressing. this is the first step. We all agree AS stacking was a crutch/easy mode. They fixed it, now we see how things go after the reduce duration. All the points being made in this post have some validity. Yes maybe they will need to buff some of the heals a bit or put the duration of AS back where it was to remain viable. Let things get tested so we can provide the devs with good solid input.
Regards
Issue is, it was already discussed if they nerfed astral shield then they have to add power into other heals to make them viable, but they didn't. There is little reason at the moment to use them at higher levels.
just to put my 2 cents in, last night i was tanking a mage and a rogue, and a DC with my DC, the AS nerf was needed. never in any MMO has my healer been able to tank 2 dps and a healer lol...
I soloed two terrible TRs at the same time today on my GF. Obviously the TR class needs buffing.
Use the <removed exploit lead-in> to interact with the auction vendor.
I haven;t tried it yet but from what I have read it seems like I will be able to just alternate between Astral Shield and Bastion and keep a good constant flow of health pouring onto the group.
I'm glad I have Bastion maxed out, cause It seems like if you didn't put anything into it you may HAVE to Respec or you won't be a very good Cleric in Dungeon Runs.
People in this thread keep talking about how squishy Guardians are even in AS, but don't most Guardians currently need to go heavy DPS in their build in order to hold aggro at all? The aggro changes don't just mean that GFs will be generating more aggro, it means they can hopefully give up some of those damage stats and feats for more defensive setups. This is combined with the flat 10% boost to damage taken before guard breaks, a 20% improvement to guard mitigation against "high-damage attacks," and bug fixes on feats that should have been improving mitigation but weren't. Actual tanks should be tankier than they were before, whether it makes up for the downtime on AS I don't know.
Also, GWFs are looking tankier than they were. A GF and GWF should be able to split aggro between the two of them, instead of expecting a single character to survive against 10 mobs at once.
I haven;t tried it yet but from what I have read it seems like I will be able to just alternate between Astral Shield and Bastion and keep a good constant flow of health pouring onto the group.
I'm glad I have Bastion maxed out, cause It seems like if you didn't put anything into it you may HAVE to Respec or you won't be a very good Cleric in Dungeon Runs.
The lost healing isn't the scary part, it's the dramatic increase in damage taken that is worrisome.
Use the <removed exploit lead-in> to interact with the auction vendor.
Even with a DC, wipes in Dungeons are common. I haven't had a group make it through a Dungeon Delve for one reason or another for the last 4 days, trying 2 per day. Either they need to reduce adds by 70% or they need to NOT NERF AS.
The real issue is that the way they make boss fights tough in this game is by giving a boss a HAMSTER ton of HP and then throwing a bunch of adds at you. Sometimes over and over again.
As an example, I've done Karrudax too many times to count. I like that Dungeon and it was one of the only ones I could do for Delves in queue until my gear score got high enough for Epics.
The Dragon himself is fairly easy. He has a HAMSTER ton of HP and really bad breath which creates circles of death. However, you can dodge those. The problem is, you have wyrmpriests both healing and lobbing fire at you as well as hurlers repeatedly hurling daggers (usually at the cleric). Without the AS to allow you to take a chunk out of the adds, that dungeon is going to be near impossible. With it, a good team can get it done no problem.
Personally, I'd rather see bosses who are challenging in themselves with little to no adds but that doesn't seem to be the way this game works. I don't know if it is an engine limitation or what?
As it stands though, even with AS people wipe. A lot. Without it, you are going to have more wiping which means people will rarely get the delve rewards which means, sooner or later, people won't bother queueing at all and will only go in with a premade team which puts those who play solo or with one or two friends at a huge disadvantage.
I'm also going to laugh when no party can find a cleric anymore because they all re rolled and then when they find one, they can't even pass the 1st boss.
People in this thread keep talking about how squishy Guardians are even in AS, but don't most Guardians currently need to go heavy DPS in their build in order to hold aggro at all? The aggro changes don't just mean that GFs will be generating more aggro, it means they can hopefully give up some of those damage stats and feats for more defensive setups. This is combined with the flat 10% boost to damage taken before guard breaks, a 20% improvement to guard mitigation against "high-damage attacks," and bug fixes on feats that should have been improving mitigation. Actual tanks should be tankier than they were before, whether it makes up for the downtime on AS I don't know.
I run 2 TR 1 DC 1 CW 1 GF group. GF is pure tank with more def then all of us combined. If he pulls too much CN trash he takes ridiculous amounts of dmg and almost dead by the time he reaches safety of AS.
Carnage TR Dragon shard - retired? hell yea it's retired along with Nevewinter
People in this thread keep talking about how squishy Guardians are even in AS, but don't most Guardians currently need to go heavy DPS in their build in order to hold aggro at all? The aggro changes don't just mean that GFs will be generating more aggro, it means they can hopefully give up some of those damage stats and feats for more defensive setups. This is combined with the flat 10% boost to damage taken before guard breaks, a 20% improvement to guard mitigation against "high-damage attacks," and bug fixes on feats that should have been improving mitigation. Actual tanks should be tankier than they were before, whether it makes up for the downtime on AS I don't know.
They increased guard mitigation against high damage attacks but lots of adds eat block away very very fast.
Defense, as a stat, already gets worse per point without any enchants. Timeless + a blue belt is already ~43% dr. Not to mention fixing the ac feat is going to be another 2% dr or some such.
Use the <removed exploit lead-in> to interact with the auction vendor.
People in this thread keep talking about how squishy Guardians are even in AS, but don't most Guardians currently need to go heavy DPS in their build in order to hold aggro at all? The aggro changes don't just mean that GFs will be generating more aggro, it means they can hopefully give up some of those damage stats and feats for more defensive setups. This is combined with the flat 10% boost to damage taken before guard breaks, a 20% improvement to guard mitigation against "high-damage attacks," and bug fixes on feats that should have been improving mitigation but weren't. Actual tanks should be tankier than they were before, whether it makes up for the downtime on AS I don't know.
Also, GWFs are looking tankier than they were. A GF and GWF should be able to split aggro between the two of them, instead of expecting a single character to survive against 10 mobs at once.
Even if you spec defense, went max HP, larger shield and use the set that gives you a better shield you're still pretty squishy when it's down. my GF was spec defense since I had no issues with aggro but I was forced to kite stuff around in a corner after the shield broke, which only took 3 seconds to break. The feats for AC and defense for GF should've been increased slightly in my opinion especially since they are giving up damage for survivability.
The lost healing isn't the scary part, it's the dramatic increase in damage taken that is worrisome.
Well then I hope they truly fixed the aggro cause as it stands, even in Astral Shield there are some Mobs in those Dungeons that take 20% of my Health per hit and I have a 9.4k Gear Score.
Moradin knows we can't heal ourselves! Hehehe, watch , the new Dungeon make up will include 3 Clerics now so we can heal each other.
Even with a DC, wipes in Dungeons are common. I haven't had a group make it through a Dungeon Delve for one reason or another for the last 4 days, trying 2 per day. Either they need to reduce adds by 70% or they need to NOT NERF AS.
The real issue is that the way they make boss fights tough in this game is by giving a boss a HAMSTER ton of HP and then throwing a bunch of adds at you. Sometimes over and over again.
As an example, I've done Karrudax too many times to count. I like that Dungeon and it was one of the only ones I could do for Delves in queue until my gear score got high enough for Epics.
The Dragon himself is fairly easy. He has a HAMSTER ton of HP and really bad breath which creates circles of death. However, you can dodge those. The problem is, you have wyrmpriests both healing and lobbing fire at you as well as hurlers repeatedly hurling daggers (usually at the cleric). Without the AS to allow you to take a chunk out of the adds, that dungeon is going to be near impossible. With it, a good team can get it done no problem.
Personally, I'd rather see bosses who are challenging in themselves with little to no adds but that doesn't seem to be the way this game works. I don't know if it is an engine limitation or what?
As it stands though, even with AS people wipe. A lot. Without it, you are going to have more wiping which means people will rarely get the delve rewards which means, sooner or later, people won't bother queueing at all and will only go in with a premade team which puts those who play solo or with one or two friends at a huge disadvantage.
Please rethink this Devs.
First off, this game is not a soloer game. It works like WoW - if you want to do endgame content, it's best to have a group of friends or a guild to do it with. It's the nature of the game.
And I've queued solo before and gotten into parties with two clerics. And failed. Not because the dungeon was too difficult, but because the clerics were bad. It's the same story in every game. If you want to do upper level content, you have to either play with a group you know can play, or be lucky enough to get into a PUG that does.
With the AS nerf, clerics will actually have to think about their skills now. In fact, all classes have to in order to keep the team alive.
Comments
That's just not true. People on the test server are saying it's easy to get aggro off the healer now, so the healer can use their other heals instead of just afking in the circle.
Agro isn't going to be the problem.
easier said than done, some trash damage are still big even with the AS on, not to mention some attack come with debuff. even with current AS condition and aggro, GF still trashing and sometime forced to run from battle cause of too much damage, and I can only see increasing aggro but no increasing defense in both fighter
@Cryptic / Devs you need to nerf the stacking and that's it, and take off righteousness.
Cleric IS NOT A HEALING CLASS in this game. All his heals are useless garbage, only 2 skills are good, AS and Hallowed Ground. Thre is no way in hell Cleric can heal even GF who just grabbed agro from 5-10 Adds, that GF is dead, and in next 2-3 sec rest of the party because trash hits for 5-8k per hit in packs of 5-10.
Seze - Rogue - Necropolis -
I do move. With only a single DC in a party you have to move - both to move off the red stuff and to position yourself in relation to adds, bosses and party members. I am not sure how you would assume that a single DC in a party wouldn't move. Have you actually played a DC? Forgive me but it doesn't sound like you have. And even now AS is not necessarily 100% up time. You may get knocked over, be locked down, not have enough D-power for some reason. Again, do you play a DC?
The MMO may change but the inventory tetris stays the same.
Its all about tweaking. Lets be honest with ourselves the game has issues that need addressing. this is the first step. We all agree AS stacking was a crutch/easy mode. They fixed it, now we see how things go after the reduce duration. All the points being made in this post have some validity. Yes maybe they will need to buff some of the heals a bit or put the duration of AS back where it was to remain viable. Let things get tested so we can provide the devs with good solid input.
Regards
Then you and the CW had better be spot on with your timing. Or pop a smokescreen. Or an Avalanche of Steel. Though with the ability to get 20%+ cooldown reduction from Recovery + Wisdom, I doubt you'd need all those skills to be chained.
And where does it say that AS has been reduced to 66%? All I'm finding is that it's made to be working as intended.
Not to mention that this isn't going Live yet. It's going on the Test Shard for a reason.
Geez, this is like LoL PBE all over again. The world is ending whenever tentative changes are made.
Um... putting seals on adds? Also the way you build your character so you get certain procs off certain effects. It's not quite just those two skills.
The MMO may change but the inventory tetris stays the same.
The one flaw I see in your plan, is how long it took to get these changes made. I don't look forward to 66% AS uptime for a month.
I have literally no idea what you're trying to say.
incorrect, by lvl 57 I aggro entire adds on Karrundax battle using 3 skills AS, Divine Armor and not-so-good Healing Word
Issue is, it was already discussed if they nerfed astral shield then they have to add power into other heals to make them viable, but they didn't. There is little reason at the moment to use them at higher levels.
I soloed two terrible TRs at the same time today on my GF. Obviously the TR class needs buffing.
I'm glad I have Bastion maxed out, cause It seems like if you didn't put anything into it you may HAVE to Respec or you won't be a very good Cleric in Dungeon Runs.
Also, GWFs are looking tankier than they were. A GF and GWF should be able to split aggro between the two of them, instead of expecting a single character to survive against 10 mobs at once.
The lost healing isn't the scary part, it's the dramatic increase in damage taken that is worrisome.
The real issue is that the way they make boss fights tough in this game is by giving a boss a HAMSTER ton of HP and then throwing a bunch of adds at you. Sometimes over and over again.
As an example, I've done Karrudax too many times to count. I like that Dungeon and it was one of the only ones I could do for Delves in queue until my gear score got high enough for Epics.
The Dragon himself is fairly easy. He has a HAMSTER ton of HP and really bad breath which creates circles of death. However, you can dodge those. The problem is, you have wyrmpriests both healing and lobbing fire at you as well as hurlers repeatedly hurling daggers (usually at the cleric). Without the AS to allow you to take a chunk out of the adds, that dungeon is going to be near impossible. With it, a good team can get it done no problem.
Personally, I'd rather see bosses who are challenging in themselves with little to no adds but that doesn't seem to be the way this game works. I don't know if it is an engine limitation or what?
As it stands though, even with AS people wipe. A lot. Without it, you are going to have more wiping which means people will rarely get the delve rewards which means, sooner or later, people won't bother queueing at all and will only go in with a premade team which puts those who play solo or with one or two friends at a huge disadvantage.
Please rethink this Devs.
I run 2 TR 1 DC 1 CW 1 GF group. GF is pure tank with more def then all of us combined. If he pulls too much CN trash he takes ridiculous amounts of dmg and almost dead by the time he reaches safety of AS.
Seze - Rogue - Necropolis -
They increased guard mitigation against high damage attacks but lots of adds eat block away very very fast.
Defense, as a stat, already gets worse per point without any enchants. Timeless + a blue belt is already ~43% dr. Not to mention fixing the ac feat is going to be another 2% dr or some such.
Well then I hope they truly fixed the aggro cause as it stands, even in Astral Shield there are some Mobs in those Dungeons that take 20% of my Health per hit and I have a 9.4k Gear Score.
Moradin knows we can't heal ourselves! Hehehe, watch , the new Dungeon make up will include 3 Clerics now
First off, this game is not a soloer game. It works like WoW - if you want to do endgame content, it's best to have a group of friends or a guild to do it with. It's the nature of the game.
And I've queued solo before and gotten into parties with two clerics. And failed. Not because the dungeon was too difficult, but because the clerics were bad. It's the same story in every game. If you want to do upper level content, you have to either play with a group you know can play, or be lucky enough to get into a PUG that does.
With the AS nerf, clerics will actually have to think about their skills now. In fact, all classes have to in order to keep the team alive.